#TeamSeas
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- Опубликовано: 11 ноя 2021
- The latest project from MrBeast and Mark Rober, #TeamSeas, is here, and it's aiming to clean up the world's oceans. But will it accomplish this, or will it in fact make the problem worse?
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REFERENCES
(1) teamseas.org/
(2) www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s...
(3) • MrBeast & Mark Rober d...
(4) foundation.plasticsforchange....
(5) www.plasticpollutioncoalition...
(6) www.beyondplastics.org/act
(7) www.researchgate.net/publicat...
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Music by Epidemic Sound: epidemicsound.com
Some stock footage from Getty.
Discussing #TeamSeas by comparing it to #TeamTrees, the previous project from MrBeast and Mark Rober. As I tried to communicate in my video about Team Trees, Team Seas suffers from systematic flaws in focusing on an ineffective solution to a problem where effective solutions exist. I argue that Team Seas is making its donators overconfident in their impact through a lack of context, and is unhelpfully making people think that the solution to ocean plastic is a cleanup. While the #TeamSeas website makes this point in small print, I've not seen this anywhere in the hype for the project, which is what ultimately matters. In this video I try to put Team Seas in context, and offer alternative actions that will have a much greater impact on ocean plastic pollution.
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What I take from this is that, like with many things we currently do, we tend to focus too much on short-term ideas, instead of thinking about long-term solutions...
We also focus on the down stream problem rather than the up stream cause of that problem. We tell individuals to recycle their plastic, and don’t do anything to make plastic producers change their output. We tell people they should use the train instead of flying, then we make flying cheaper. We tell people to insulate their homes and install heat pumps, while allowing new homes to be built with insufficient insulation and no energy saving features.
We put all the onus on individuals to clean up the mess the economy creates. But whenever anyone suggests we try to stop the economy from producing so much mess we’re told “that’s uneconomic” and we should go back to sorting our tins from our jars and counting our food miles cause it’s all our fault.
@@WhichDoctor1 all true, and I don't know if your point about food miles Is sarcastic, but transportation for food production is actually very insignificant for the food product's total emissions. SOURCE: „You want to reduce the carbon footprint of your food? Focus on what you eat, not whether your food is local“ - „Our World in Data“. Simon also made a video about that. I will link the video as a response to your comment.
@@WhichDoctor1 ruclips.net/video/mmNcOCwtFeg/видео.html
@@SchgurmTewehr Yeah food-miles are pretty pointless. It's just more busy work given to individuals to make us feel like solving problems in massive global systems is our responsibility. The carbon and ecological damage of food is waaaaaay too complex for individuals to be able to calculate while squinting at the labels on packets for 3 minutes in the supermarket. The example that first drove this home for me was from a BBC radio 4 show where they calculated the real cost in carbon, water and such of a packet of runner beans grown on a family-run market garden in Kenya, and a pack of British beans grown in an artificially heated and light mega greenhouse in Kent. Turns out even if you live in Kent it was environmentally better to buy beans flown over from Kenya than ones grown just down the road from you in this particular greenhouse.
Not saying all greenhouse-grown food is bad, or all imported food is good. It entirely depends on the individual circumstances in each case. Which is my point, and means you really can't tell anything from where food was grown.
This stuff is way too complex and nuanced for it to be left to every single consumer to work out individually
Here is the thing... if you make NO step, then you'd never get anywhere.
And they are not only doing a clean up but donating a huge amount of the money to RESEARCH and to creating boats that stop a LOT of the plastic at the SOURCE.
People can understand that Mark’s and Jimmy’s actions come from a good place so I hope they’ll extend you that courtesy too and realise you’re coming at this from a crucial angle; that systemic change is rarely glamorous nor immediate. And while it wasn’t your main point I totally agree it’s vital for all big initiatives to have objective analysis, which you’ve provided. If you’d been less charitable you might’ve mentioned that the protagonists’ normal videos themselves have considerable environmental impact.
Big "yes" to the last one...
Love seeing you here, and great points.
It's because of people like you and Simon, I still have faith in Science communication.
Says the bloke who makes all his videos in a hospital cupboard at midnight using artificial light!
Okay, so this is very correct in general, but the implication that Simon is thus the antagonist of this story is very, *very* funny. Scary supervillain Dr. Clark, yelling "drat!" into the stratosphere upon seeing his dastardly scientific method being thwarted by our well-meaning heroes.
It's like trying to save a sinking ship by scooping out water using a thimble.
To me it's more like fixing the hole in the sail. Whilst still a problem, it's a different problem to the open we should be focusing on
Fun fact is that the plastic isn't as much of a problem as the bleeding heart eco grifters want to make it appear as. Birds having plastic in their gizzard is absolutely normal and healthy and fish can simply poop out indigestible bits of plastic just like they would do with bits of sand or coral that they accidentally swallow. Plus the gigantic plastic garbage patch in the ocean is nowhere near ad dense as the often times doctored pictures make it appear.
@@reddragon3132 fixing the hole in the sail is more like stopping all plastic from getting into the oceans
@@KT-pv3kl then why is fish filled with microplastics
@@KT-pv3kl Ah yes, that makes absolute scientific sense, that a modern indigestible material that an animal cannot possibly have evolved in tandem with is "normal" and "healthy" to consume. What an absolutely insane claim.
Really appreciate the academic approach you take to topics like this. It's a shame treating the symptom makes for a more viral video than treating the cause. Makes me wonder how effective the campaign would be if the money was directed more upstream. Seriously appreciate you making me less ignorant of the topic. I can't imagine how hard it is to make a logical argument while adhering to the engagement incentives of RUclips.
a yo
Do you think they could have raised as much money if they directed it more upstream?
And what does directing it more upstream even mean here, political lobbying?
hi parker why are we both watching this video
@@jogadorjnc
1. It's MrBeast, of course he could raise a lot of money
2. He can still advertise it as "1 dollar is 1 pound removed every year" or sum, he knows what he's doing when it comes to advertisements
@@Yeah_Jaron hmmmmmmmm i am here too
Just making a civil comment to help counter anyone who may not have listened carefully enough and jumped on the complain train.
Great video, Simon. As an oceanographer, my colleagues and I have always been frustrated by the attention that projects such as this and the Ocean Cleanup Project have received. They are simple to visualise and offer tangible action against an issue that we all agree needs addressing, but as a result do nothing more than attack the symptoms rather than the cause of the problem. The money spent on these ventures (as you've said) can be used so much more effectively elsewhere.
I think anyone who has any knowledge of how pollution of the seas is happening, understands the only true way of stopping all pollution to a fraction of what it is now, is by building up developing countries. Why should an impoverished person worry about pollution when they’re on the verge of not being able to survive. We know by looking at other past examples when you create more infrastructure and therefore make the population more wealthy it slows down population growth and vastly slows down pollution.
Hi, I've always heard of that island of plastic in the ocean. But I've never seen any pictures of it. What exactly is up with that plastic island? Is it just so finely grained that it's not visible or what exactly is its composition?
I don't doubt it's existence, because there is really a lot of plastic in the ocean. I just think a lot of things are a bit polarized when it comes to these topics.
@@philippbrogli779 Yeah, people always say "island the size of Texas!" and you open Google Earth, and don't see an island there :P The reason you don't see it is because it's not in one giant "ball", but a loosely clustered structure, and a lot of it is floating just below the surface. This video has good footage from The Ocean Cleanups run earlier this year, and you can see what plastic in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch actually looks like: ruclips.net/video/tLcnJEMnlTs/видео.html
You say that the money could be used effectively which seems a lot easier said than done. Quite frankly if there was a more effective method, don’t you think we would be using it?
@@gamingbutnotreally6077 For a project like this? No, I don't. Ventures like this live or die on one thing: their ability to raise money. It's far easier to show people physically removing plastic bottles/ garbage from the ocean than say, lobbying for effective legislation on banning single use plastics. If you want widespread appeal and to make people aware of an issue, you have to keep it simple even though, as a result, the impact you'll have is far smaller than if you were to address the far less sexy root of the problem.
When I saw the TeamSeas trending on twitter for first time, and looked at Mark Rober's name, I was little disappointed when I read about the project, because he has a strong science background, and still decided to present this cleanup project as a very huge deal. Also now I understand why they decided to make it a cleanup project, since a cleanup project makes for a good video rather than a project which tries to fix the source.
This kind of same topic was covered by Kurzgesagt's "Can you fix climate change?" video, where they covered shifting the blame from source to consumers by organizations, and scale of waste produced by industries, and they also backed their video with proper well cited sources.
I like how you said you were disappointed but ignore the fact that a portion of the proceeds go to RESEARCH and the fact that they are actually supporting projects that try to tackle some of the trash at the source (like with boats that collect trash in the rivers BEFORE they reach the ocean).
I think the clean up projects and the research is the much more important part, but the actual clean up and having, even a small but impactful difference just helps show people that clean up is possible.
Plus, it helps rank up the interest.
I think the reality is that regardless of its success, a fundraiser funded project is severely limited in its ability to make a significant impact, it's a problem which calls for large scale government action and economic development. Simon's attack on the operation by referring to the 0.01% figure is unfair because he doesn't even attempt to determine what kind of impact could be made by investing the same money in a different way. Because think about it, what could they actually do. Temporarily fund a waste removal service for a few towns somewhere? Will that yield a percent significantly higher than 0.01?
@@TheDeathmail These boats are a nice and good idea for cleaning up whats swimming in the ocean. The problem is, more trash is being filled into the ocean than they could collect with these boats. Its a fight against windmills. Thats why we need to reduce the source.
I stop trusting Mark. Sadly I loved his video. But after his whole shit with NEXT for Autism and LITERALLY deleting comments from autistic criticizing him, I stop supporting him.
@@TheDeathmail
After watching this video, I don't think the boats make much of a difference, seeing as the boat cleanups are included in the 13.6k tonnes mentioned in the target.
The research might make more of a difference though.
When i saw the teamseas videos, the first thing I did was research the amount of plastic there is and how much is added and found the same numbers as Simon. So It did manage to give the attention to the problem, without it I wouldn't have researched on my own. But I also realise that the actual donation goals is kinda useless, but going further I will donate for more sustainable solutions.
same. I voiced my concerns on twitter saying that, for this to really have an impact, they'd need to add one or even two extra zero's to that thirty million. the response was "well something is better than nothing". and whilst that's true, I feel like TeamSeas and TeamTrees have also just been a massive PR stunt/boost in disguise
@@AnymMusic I think the idea though is to do something good while getting the younger generation, the ones who will have to deal with the fallout in the future, aware of the problem.
Like said in the video though, it should be better expressed; the best way to actually fix the problem.
Inherently I like to think that actions like this bring awareness especially to the younger population which will carry the world in a few years or decades.
@@AnymMusic SO just do nothing?
Look these two are a couple of clowns, but to sit around with your peoples attitude just lets the trash pile up exasperating the inevitable cleanup needs.
@@SlayerofFiction I think you misunderstood what he was saying, and are inferring words he never said or implied
I guess additional to this is once the plastic is taken out of the ocean, how much of it finds its way back in instead of being recycled, because of the horrendous recycling record we have?
Taking the trash to landfill is not sustainable, but a well governed landfill is unimaginably better than an informal dump or the side of the road in terms of waste containment.
Waste doesn't need to be recycled for it to be contained. But containment requires enforcement of effective waste disposal regulations.
Tbh im not sure if 30million is enough but ofc i hope its similar to team trees where the amount of money donated can keep it stable
@@SirCutRy Why is burying plastic in a landfill not sustainable? Are we going to run out of holes in the ground? All that plastic came from underground (petroleum & methane) so why is it bad to put it back in the ground?
@@samuraiboi2735 Did you watch the video?
I just watched how they advertise this. Mark and whatever the name of Mr. Beast is' audiences are very young and enormous. I worry that this toxic positive approach is going to give millions and millions the wrong idea about how to approach very difficult problems. Solving the problem of plastic in the oceans is not a fun adventure that you embark on with your friends and play along the way and film it for a show. These type of problems cannot be solved with individual action, they require a long, hard, boring and non-glamorous systemic approach, they involve governments which means that it can get explicitly political which means that is bad for the trending page of You Tube. The first thing they should tell you in every video of theirs is that it will take far FAR more than a kid with too much money and a renegaded-engineer to solve such a problem.
This is very true. I wish I could like your comment an infinite amount of times.
You’re right. But honestly if you look at the statistics children really don’t understand or care all too much about climate change as a whole as they’re leading a life of a child which is understandable. By bringing it directly to the platform they use everyday doesn’t spearhead the problem, but it does create a sense of awareness for them even if it is subconsciously. Because as we know the young of today are the future of tomorrow. So by creating a world where even when they turn to RUclips it is full of climate change campaigns it can spur them on for the future.
Also once an engineer always an engineer.
@@blockbusteryo lollll
@@blockbusteryo the younger generation is actually the one more concerned about it
I understand your argument and generally agree, my only counterpoint is this. Generally, most people that engage with #TeamSeas most likely weren’t going to ever take an interest in the ocean plastics problem. Now, because of #TeamSeas, it may spark more young people to care about the ocean plastics problem, and actually inspire them to make meaningful change.
But honestly tho, what happened to the teamtrees now. For a time, it definitely brought attention to the amazon but how about now?
@@joshrees3413 Well tbh, it would have taken a lot more time than cleaning up the seas. As Plastic have become a vital part, every guy from big cooperation might have hated it so would public. Also The Reliance in Plastic have increased, meaning most parts such as your car is made of Plastic.
@@joshrees3413 Also him selling teamseas NFTs doesn’t really help the situation at all
I knew you'd make a video like this again, and i'm glad. People need to hear that the real change we need is to go protest against governments and corporations that are causing this, instead of treating the symptom a little bit. As you said, we do need to clean up the ocean, but as long as someone's pissing in it, it's not going to change.
If protests worked we wouldn’t have this pollution problem sure you’ll get some news coverage depending on the scale but it doesn’t do anything
@@mitch9525 New plan: start a business which you need to grow to be bigger than Apple and Amazon, then you make sure you can influence governements and this way enforce these changes for the benefit of the environment. 🙃
Protests work only if they are disruptive - if they stop the system from functioning as usual for some significant amount of time. Like a huge strike etc. Usual walking around with signs only makes rich freaks to look at you like you're a clown or a jester entertaining them with your foolishness
@@jinjunliu2401 there is no way a private company can avoid functioning by current rules of capitalism. If you are a publicly traded company you MUST maximize profit for shareholders otherwise you are committing a crime and will be sued. If you do anything to make you company better for the environment and the employees and spend extra resources on that, that will hurt the shareholders' profits. The system functions in a way that you can't change anything unless you change the system. One person's decision cannot change how a huge corporation operates. Even if that person is the owner
Is it fair to say then we are screwed because the average person can’t do anything meaningful about the climate change and the people who do focus on it either have the wrong solution or will inevitably get shot down by those in power?
the uk joke in the beginning was golden hahaha
Never heard of your channel before… this was incredibly refreshing and insightful. This type of reasoning is incredibly hard to get across and a lot of people react violently to it. It’s like you are bringing them back to the existential dread of being powerless... when you are actually just merely suggesting to think of better, simpler, already existing solutions.
I think he didn't really go into the project and just read the title. Team seas is actually investing in permanent garbage removal technology and building infrastructure for villages without a garbage removal system
@@Shepper99 you just said it. Garbage removal. Not treating the cause but the symptom.
@@hobve936 Then you go treat the cause rather than criticize those who do something at all. I don't get what you people expect. "Why bother doing anything until we magically revolutionize the garbage disposal infrastructure of corrupt governments? Is TeamSeas stupid?"
This honestly doesn't get said enough. People like Mark rober seems to exist to make a show of helping, while at the same time working with the people who cause the problems in the first place
i mean here is the thing.U put any other human in Mark Rober's place.What exactly are we expecting to change?Put urself there and still no change.U see,the problem is that humans always hav the tendency to think that the grass is greener on the other side and in every context of the phrase,they think they can do a better job or they think they know someone who can.But in reality the output v wud get would widely remain the same in all scenarios.Human Race us a lost cause,as harsh as that sounds,Humans cannot be the most efficient means to spearhead a programme forward.It brings you to a point where u want to agree and disagree at the same time.And so its basically pointless
@@simonfinnie2900 well said, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Similarly, Veritasium is another edutainment youtuber that people trust who regularly does bias sponsored content with shady groups
@@AkuraTheAwesome what sort of sponsorships? I don't watch veratasium much but I wouldn't have suspected he'd done anything shady
@@RN__4 check out the one he did for head and shoulders about Dandruff a few years ago
It's because attention is currency in the marketplace of ideas.
I saw a post on reddit that pointed out the fact that if Mr Beast really cared about the environment then why does Beast Burgers (his restaurant chain) exclusively sell drinks that are either Coca-Cola brand or Dasani, owned by Nestle (two of the largest plastic polluters in the US). Although, this is more of an attack on character than the charity itself and is a criticism of the hypocritical nature of philanthropists.
This is the reason why climate change is both a scientific and political challenge, and only hypocrites like Mr Beast and Derek Muller and Mark Rober hijacks the conversation with "science" labels and defeats the purpose of climate actions. Hence only its possible for these traitors to show that science and politics are separate in climate change. This is like Galileo selling himself to the Pope. I'm sure these buggers would have shown the scientific glory of IBM's counting machines used in Nazi war crimes as an achievement of Science.
I mean if Mr Beast is so concerned with climate change, he would have paid his workers a fair salary, so that they can invest in a eco-friendly lifestyle.
We can also go a bit deeper: if he really cares about climate change, why does he sell burgers made of beef?
@@swagatochatterjee7104 MR beast would sell his grandma for views/money. He's a clown.
LOts of good things came out of Nazi Experiments on Humans, we owe much of our modern medicine to this regard, unfortunately many good things come from the bad.
@@swagatochatterjee7104 I don't think Mr.Beast and Mark Rober are doing this for a malicious reason, they just made some naive choices with this project.
It's also not really possible to seperate science and politics in these matters. For a global solution to Climate change and the pollution of seas there need to be a lot of scientific solutions to replace our current usage of plastics and carbon fuels, and they need to be integrated into politics.
Also, I don't quite understand why you're hating on Veritasium, that guy had almost nothing to do with this all...
RUclips removes dislike button
Simon Clark: Alright. Time to upset some people who need to hear some science.
XD
True lol
button still exists for me, currently 7.3k likes and 172 dislikes.
@@Commander_ZiN good
@@Commander_ZiN THANK YOU!
I think it's important to be skeptical whenever celebrities start new charities to tackle a problem instead of working with existing ones. Even if they have good intentions (sometimes the intention is to enrich themselves) they likely know much less and have little or no experience with what they are doing and all that good attention and money ends up wasted. (all those celebrities helping after the Haiti Earthquake comes to mind)
Organisers of Team Seas didn't start any new charity. Team Seas is just a campaign that splits 50% between two existing no-profits: "Ocean Conservancy" and "The Ocean Cleanup".
And sometimes, charities really aren't the answer. Sometimes charity ends up making the problem worse.
But it's far easier to just give blindly to a charity.
@@tams805 As a general rule always be wary of very rich people donating large amounts to charities or organizations. A lot of them do it because it means they can control what those organizations do by threatening to pull funding if they start getting in the way. Plenty of environmental protections organizations have their hands tied because very rich donors are the ones causing the problems.
@@SmileyMikee Bro do you even know who MrBeast is
@@tams805 In my opinion charities are almost never the answer, it's often a failure of government.
I mean, people will defend team seas saying it raises awareness but let's be honest when this charity event is over then we move on to the next thing. All this money should go to permanent solutions, not false hope projects that this will do something big.
I cannot agree more. That is exactly what happened with Teamtrees as well
@@AnkurShah yeah team trees could've actually saved the trees we have by cleaning up forest floor of fuel sources of fire that have been building up due to forest service stopping any forest fires completely which is bad because then more fuel builds up.
Wait until the people who just drop a dislike and leave without watching 3 seconds of the video first arrive
Pretty soon we won’t be able to see those dislikes at all.
@@LucasCarter2 So true, lol. Thanks, RUclips... XD
I don't envy your comment notifications, Simon. I really don't.
Good news. Currently only 14 dislikes to 1100~ likes
@@mr.boomguy Because the only people who have viewed it are subscribers. Wait until the algorithm picks it up.
I've been waiting for this. Thanks Simon for this crucial work! I really hope this spreads and gets listened to so that we don't end up next year with yet another identical campaign.
Team Peas.
Idk, i think ultimately those campaigns have a net positive impact. People will try to justify their wrong actions always, but forgetting a problem exists is even worse..
I would be happy to see another campaign next year, since that means another video from Simon as well..
@@tams805 Lmao
Agreed, we need upstream solutions. Single use plastic needs to be eradicated, we need truly biodegradable packaging and we need to subsidize plastic recycling. Also fishers need to heavily fined for leaving fishing nets behind.
Your channel is so underrated. I am watching you from more than 3 years and you deserve so much more. Keep up the good work.
Imagine the influence Mark and Jimmy would have if they told their millions of subscribers to write to their local representatives...
it would be in vain because of corporate lobbying
@@debo5410 They may fear the end of their gravy train because of a massive outcry. Worth a try, better than not doing anything at all.
@@Isomoar fair point
What if they told their subscribers to become their representatives?
None. They would have no impact.
A big part of team seas is focusing on diverting waste from the most polluting rivers before it ends up in the ocean, as well as developing local waste management. Didn't they also partner with a branch of the UN for the project? Why were these three things not covered in this video?
Framing the effort as just beach and ocean cleanups is a mischaracterization...
I have to say, I feel like this time they are slightly more clear about what the project is and isn't. Mark Rober did talk briefly on the lack of infrastructure in developing countries, and I did see some participating creators mention this isn't the solution to the problem of plastic in the ocean, which I didn't see at all in Team Trees. Still though, they really didn't make it clear or emphasised enough, so I'm glad there are videos like this to look at the project critically.
It's not an island. If you had done even a minimum amount of research you'd know this. Do you know about The Ocean Cleanup's interceptor program?
I wholehardedly agree with the points made in the video but it also frustrates me that you didn't address the nonprofit "The Ocean Cleanup" and their Interceptors that are being placed along rivers and their large scale ocean clean up operations that go beyond the #TeamSeas project.
Yes this is something that I basically cut for time - marine scientists have long been frustrated at the Ocean Cleanup's projects and how they don't listen to their legitimate criticisms. If this video does well I'll hopefully make a sequel going into the Ocean Cleanup more deeply.
@@SimonClark well I've already liked and I've shared with my friends. Dunno how to help more, cause you're highly underrated
@@SimonClark This is something I would love to know more about.
@@SimonClark this is definitely a topic I’d be interested in hearing more about
@@SimonClark Yeah that sounds like a great Idea! Just like the rest of us, i would like to see an in-depth look into the Ocean Cleanup. (of course when you want to do it / when enough engagement comes) 😄
2:17 "in sensible units"
thankyou for this hahaha...
PS Great work on clearing the stats yet again!
Fantastic video Simon. Really emphasising how important the cost benefit analysis of any project is. Loved your referencing back to the last video you did on this topic.
Thank you for stepping up and doing this kind of videos simon.
Always the voice of reason, Simon. I remember the #TeamTrees response. Good job.
I agree with almost everything you say, TeamSeas is definitely not solution to the problem, not even close.
BUT
What i don't agree with is the fact that they could have redirected the funds to another place, where it would have been much more effective at resolving the problem:
I think the reson TeamTrees and TeamSeas get this much attention and success is because of the big words and slogans they use.
"for every dollar we get we will remove 1 pound of plastic" is going to get a lot more attention than "for every dollar we get we will make a little tiny figurative step fowards in making the socio-political changes that need to occur in order to eradicate the problem from the root".
The money could be used in a better way, for sure, but i don't think it could have been raised in the first place if this campaign was done in a more rational and serious way.
Mark Rober and MrBeast did what they do best, get a lot of clicks, views and attention to the problem. Introducing it to a younger audience that didn't know/didn't care about the problem and bringing light to the issue for a massive ammount of people.
By bringing this much attention to the issue, serious conversation can happen more often and be more effective. In a way this video itself is proof of it.
Finally a guy who thinks practically! These people are private actors, yet we are placing governmental responsibility to them? Everyone seems to believe that if given the task themselves, they'd have done a better job... It really disheartens me. People need hope, not constant criticism. Let this pass, this criticism isn't going to get anywhere, we know there is an upstream problem, but this is something to make people believe something is being done, and that people care.
@@joshrees3413 30 million dollar is not so much for fixing the entire issue anyway though. Not to mention direct ocean cleanup is not an extremely inefficient solution. Anything beyond that would also require more organized/dedicated group of people (AKA: Green activist) to handle. also those folks could takes advantage of this hype and redirect it into finding a permanent solution. After all, Mr beast and MIke robert did their best. It's us who could make it even better.
@@joshrees3413 Also him selling team-seas NFTs just proves even more that he doesn’t give a shit about his “Kindness”
FYI Simon, the #teamseas FAQ states that donations will be split 50/50 between The Ocean Cleanup and Ocean Conservancy, the later of which works on the federal/state level to protect oceans and advocates for science-based policy. I agree with your video, but it is not entirely true that donations to #teamseas will only go towards removing plastics. From the looks of things, they are also trying to find structural solutions. Whether or not that involves upgrading infrastructure for recycling in developing countries, I'm not sure.
Yea this seems like a typical call out video. Right from the start from his remarks like "I work at nasa" implying that Mark Rober flexes his nasa job too much or calling Mr. Beast "capitalism on steroids" implying he's some evil capitalist Jeff brzos type. It seems he wasn't joking either.
His 0.01% statistic also only makes sense if they're removing the trash uniformly from the surface of earth. Instead of that what if they're cleaning up the coast of of California or a big port city?
In his 2 scenarios also he's painting a false dichotomy between people not knowing about team seas and doing something and people donating to team seas and being complacent.
It's very easy to sit on your ass and make youtube callout videos instead of going out of your home and doing something helpful I guess.
Exactly
Definitely.
Agree with you!
Simon did not mentioned "the river robot", which prevents the plastic flowing in the ocean in the first place. This is really a crucial information, that was not presented to audience.
Mr. Beast and Mark Rober are using their followers for something good and people still find time and energy to be salty about it.
Will #teamseas just solve our plastic problem? Of course not, but it's a step into right direction.
Great video Simon, thanks for putting this neatly into perspective in a nuanced manner! I think this will help people in judging for themselves how they want to help tackle the problem
Great video, Simon! This was really informative! One other concern I have with TeamSeas is how they’re planning dispose of the removed waste that can’t be recycled. Obviously neither landfill nor incineration are great options and will just add to the atmospheric burden. I guess this goes back to your point of them not focussing on the big picture
Incineration adds to the atmospheric burden. Landfilling of plastic does not. A landfill is actually a pretty good solution for dealing with plastic, though not as good as making less of it in the first place.
@@incognitotorpedo42 It's only a good solution when well-managed landfills in places with strong policy and enforcement are available to be used, and we still struggle with this in very wealthy countries. Just this year a small town in NZ had to advise pregnant women to move out for months because of a privately managed landfill illegally burning toxic waste and releasing toxic gases into the surrounding areas. They don't actually say which landfills they intend to use, which makes me very suspicious of where all this cleaned up plastic is going.
Thank you for bringing awareness to this I liked, subscribed and commented to hopefully boost this in the algorithm
I would actually love some type of "audit" of what has been made of the past #teamtrees and its actual impact
👏👏👏CLAPS FOR DAYS. Loved this, the bath analogy was fab, wish I'd thought of that! Thanks for mentioning me too, v kind!
Thanks for making this video Simon... I'll definitely share this...!
Was waiting for this :)) good thing to clear the misunderstanding many had with your #TeamTrees video
In short. Treating the cause is more important than the symptoms.
Am i get it right?
Awesome video Simon. Thanks you for keep us informed. Cheers!
Thanks for making these videos. They're an important addition and appreciated.
I knew this video was coming as soon as #teamSeas started. Thanks for putting it in perspective.
I'm so glad people are making videos about #TeamSeas and other great causes. We need more of this in the world
Someone didn’t get past the title….ooops!
thank you so much for this insightful video Simon !!
thanks for this video Simon it's a really good one
to be fair, a lot of the #teamsea videos I've watched did address the source material and waste rather than the cleanup side of things, so I believe there has been a benefit on the wider awareness side
He did not even properly research team seas before making this callout video. His research that people will be complacent and do less if they donate to team seas is also flawed.
Prediction: Same response as the video made with respect to Team Trees; we engage so much in tiny victories that we forget the big picture. I'll watch the video after some hours/days.
Yep, you got it right! 😆. Do still watch it though so more engagement goes to this; instead of TeamSeas.
@@plasmawave2565 well he makes money from the vid which his going to donate it all to team seas
@@samuraiboi2735 Given that he just got finished making an entire video saying TeamSeas is likely a net negative thing, why would he do that?????
Really? I mostly remember Mark Rober's video that talked about exactly what both of Simon's videos were addressing. And I didn't see other science communicatirs neglect that aspect either.
@@benjamink2398 Mainly so that they can't say he's making money off of it
Thank you for the extra insight what you did here could really help out keep up the good work
Thank you for this video, I think it is great that you are giving another perspective and enabling people to see this isn't a solution but it is still good.. though could definitely be executed better and certainly has it flaws..
Thank you for creating great videos, I hope to see more from you in the future.
I was looking forward to seeing your take on #TeamSeas. Great explanation! Hope you fight the youtube algorithm.
I like the idea of grinding recyclable plastic, for instance PET used in 3D printing. Though polyester needs to be processed in large quantities so the choice or/& deletion of one such material is crucial for balancing it easily for us to recycle without doing too much effort.
Love the video, and the tonne of thm i've binged on! I'm also terrible at applying bathroom sealant.
Thank you and I dearly wish there was a way for this video to be seen as widely as theirs are.
Thanks Simon for the thoughtful take on the topic. While i do agree to some extent on your point (especially on the narrative where people become complacent because they ”have done their part”), i think you missed something by not discussing Ocean Cleanup and their role in this process. While they do also (primarily) focus on cleaning up plastics from the ocean, they do this on a much more massive scale and with a lot of investments made into technology that is meant to clean up a mess we have already made. On the other hand, Ocean Cleanup is also investing lots of resources into their Interceptor trash collectors that aim to clean up the most poluting rivers so that the trash does not end up in the oceans in the first place. Yes, we definitely need a broader solution for plastic manufacturing, waste processing and other crucial parts of the vertical but i think not discussing the investments and research being dedicated to serious and organised cleanup processes also simplifies this broad issue a bit too much.
This is a super complicated topic and unfortunately it seems that the people and industries that would have the biggest impact are simply not willing to change fast enough. We need to tackle this issue from all fronts and i think that Mark and Jimmy are doing important work on at minimum informing large crowds on these issues. Yes, they could definitely so more given their influence but it should also be pointed out that if they were to make a video or a campaign about calling ones representative, or about the need to remove single use plastics, they would most likely be accused of political messaging - a thing that especially those who oppose climate actions often seem to dislike. Would that be as effective of a message? Perhaps yes, but id reccon not. Yes, there is a lot that they could (and should) do in addition to the current campaign, but i think we need to also recognise the positives of what they are doing.
Regardless, thanks so much for the well thought-out video. I think you bring in much needed critisism into these complex discussions. We really need more people like you so that we can have a more informed and analytical discussion.
This video will need all the boost it can get for the algorithm to deem it worthy enough to be circulated proper. Keep up the good work, Simon Clark
Awesome work and great video!!
thank you for making this video!
I can understand why people would get mad having to hear criticism about their favorite RUclipsrs and an action that seems good, but these points are really good. By making such a big deal and movement by simply removing a crumb in a massive pollution cake without actually acknowledging the massive pollution cake, it makes it seem like the movement fixed it and now we can forget about it.
This is a really important video, Simon. Thanks for being brave enough to make it, despite the potential backlash. ❤️
The dislike button doesn't exist so there won't be much except the comments
Great video, thanks for explaining the nuance of this problem. Hopefully it will be shared widely and we can make some real, positive changes to help solve it!
Fantastic video! Thank you, Simon :)
To be fair, half the money collected will be used to build these RiverCleaners, so theres is at least some Infrastructure beeing build which ll systematicly help the issue. I dislike how you didnt mention that
That is a good point. He should've mentioned that indeed.
You kind of ignored one of the biggest things they're doing. They're putting trash collecting machines at the mouth of rivers that put most of the trash in the ocean in the first place. Sure, the actual trash cleanup is small, but the prevention from the machines in the rivers will be much much more. You even used footage from the video where they explain that.
Yeah, feels like he did that on purpose. No harm in making the video 3 minutes longer.
Thank you! I was waiting for your video. Agree with everything said
So, to examine your argument:
Scenario 1 - Avoid efforts like #TeamSeas - let the plastic keep building up till it's so noticeable that we can't do anything but fix the problem... And the little (in context to the total number) of acquatic life that such projects will benefit and help save can die for the greater good
Scenarios 2 - Support projects like #TeamSeas, save a percentage or less of acquatic life (which in numbers may still be thousands if not millions)... And the plastic will keep building up till it's so noticeable that we can't do anything but fix the problem...
So assume you have a time machine and you live both these scenarious out - what would you feel better about? The trash that you cleaned and the life (a little on a global scale, and a lot on an individual level) you helped save as an individual? Or the trash cleaning efforts you trashed for the greater good? Considering both worst-case scenarios are the same in outcome ... For better philosophical context - let's also view this hypothetical from a life and death perspective? The death of everything seems inevitable, so what's the point of saving life? The answer that doctors seem to live by is - there's a very good point to improving the quality of life that's going to die anyway...
Although I admit this isn't the main argument of the video, so let's consider that: the biggest problem with efforts like #TeamSeas is that it will?/could? lead to people feeling like people now have the license to trash? Well that's true... In the case of one in many probable outcomes... I can personally testify that that hasn't been the outcome for me - after happily donating to both #TeamTrees and #TeamSeas I can personally say that it has made me more aware, more guilty about plastic waste I generate and that it has made me want to generate less trash and clean more... The argument severely downplays the long-term benefits of spreading Awareness (the roots of every movement), and it risks scaring away new adopters by presenting the problem in its full magnanimity. Why is that a problem? Does it make sense to give a nursery student a university level test - because there are a handful of students that are brilliant enough to skip school?
Assumption - I think the point of this video, though well intentioned, is probably trying to trash efforts like #TeamSeas to redirect the publicity they've garnered towards more important and productive ways of fighting pollution... And while I think that's a good intention, it's an unkind way of going about it. Especially since the video could also be saying - #TeamSeas is awesome, you know what's more awesome - these other things that you could also donate to?
A last counter-argument i'd like to make to the point that coud be raised against all of the above - "this problem cannot be solved on an indivdual level, it has to be solved systemically": but then isn't the system constantly restructured to appeal to what the individuals want more? The trick of capitalism is to convince us to like the things it wants to sell us, the only way to undo that trick is to collectively decide what's best for us on an individual level - until the movement is large enough - that the unbiased machine that we call capitalism sees that there's profit to be made in doing what's best for us. Also, does the moral licensing conundrum not exist in the alternative you propose? Will there not be people that could say - I can't solve this problem, the governments are responsible? I see this with homeless and hungry people a lot of times, people outright refuse to buy them a meal (that costs nothing to them) because they believe they are "morally licensed" to do so in context to the all-wise greater-good plan that we're keeping poverty at bay by not encouraging it...
I currently encountered this brilliant search engine via a friend (who incidentally shared it with me cause I shared stuff about #TeamSeas and #TeamTrees) called Ecosia... It's a search engine that plants trees and I simply just switched to using it instead of google, and when I want to use google - I actually use the search engine to go to google. I think if captalists see individuals feeling more fulfilled with eco-friendly products - they will eventually restructure the world's markets to the planet's advantage.
I'm thinking more a Scenario 3 - where we protest for the larger efforts that you've underlined at the end of your video, and we donate to #TeamSeas and improve ourselves on an individual level. But it’s not fair to say or imply that can only have one and not the other in this particular situation, especially when both types of effort compliment each other.
But all of the above is based on my inexperienced perspective and i'd be more than happy to be shown a better way of reasoning... Apologies for the long comment.
Great job putting things into perspective! :) I donated to team seas and I don't regret it but I am now more aware that we need a lot more to happen to address this problem properly!
I wish more of these criticism videos would address the river interceptors, which to me seem to be a much more important part of this campaign than the 30 million pounds removed. Do you think deploying an additional interceptors on rivers could provide substantial help?
Clearly, we need larger scale changes to actually solve this problem, but providing those solutions will take time. These interceptors feel like they could help buy time and work as a cheap/fast (but likely not terribly effective) form of the infrastructure that needs to be built longer term, but I'd love to see a more critical view of them to balance my current understanding.
Simon said in a different comment thread that there has been criticisms towards The Ocean Cleanup, makers of the Interceptors, as well, and that he might make a more indepth video about them in the *hopefully* near future.
The really accurate and important well done video. Thank you for tackling this with the nuance it deserves.
It's literally the old "give a person a fish, they'll be fed for a day, give the person a fishing rod, they'll be fed forever"
I'm curious about the other factor of things like these making environmentalism (in general) cool. Like, how much impact does having such visible and respected 'influencers' put their weight behind environmental projects (even if the projects themselves aren't ideal) have by turning being green from a dorky thing to something that everyone wants to be seen doing? And even if a lot of people don't go further than the #Team*ees surely there are a fair number for whom they're a gateway onto doing actually important and effective stuff?
That's great! I think that part of Simon's point is that the duo could do that and *also* put the money into something important; it's not like Mr. Beast and Mark Rober have all too much difficulty catching the public eye when they need to.
Thanks for this perspective, it all makes sense.
Devil's advocate though: if supporting #teamseas eventually leads to those ocean cleanup machines being situated at the most highly plastic-polluted rivers in the world, could that not significantly reduce the amount of plastic entering the ocean?
If those machines are effective then yes, but consider The Ocean Cleanup's record on that front I'm afraid it's probably a no
Significantly? Not really. And how are you going to put interceptors on rivers with traffic or things like the Mississippi delta? Hard and expensive engineering problems crop up fast when you try to scale up.
@@SimonClark good point. The concept of river cleanup sounds great to me in theory (in conjunction with your recommendations), but if in practice the technology is too inefficient and expensive to scale globally then I can see the problem.
Cheers mate for the response.
Another thing worth note re ocean plastic is that dumped fishing equipment is the largest contributor by far. If you have started using biodegradable straws or whatever thats great but it would far more effective to petition for government to mandate fishing equipment 1. Not be dumped and for 2. Biodegradable options to be used instead
We don't know how to make biodegradable things that are safe for the oceans, so no, that's not the answer. Fishing gear return quotas, more port collection infrastructure, national targets and so on are the way to go. And I guess less bottom trawling, which is bad also in the sense of net wear and tear.
Thankyou simon for making this video.
Thank you for making this. When saying similar things I just end up in the weeds and antagonize people I don't need to because I am a poor communicator. Gen Z, like everyone when they are teenagers, are obsessed with FEELING like they are doing something big, important, flashy, and good. They want to be a part of something. They have great intentions but little to no patience for nuance, and it sucks our current world of social media seems to be making it worse. People don't have time or attention for nuance and hate being told that they, personally, can't accomplish much because the problems that we are facing are system, global ones that require systemic, global changes. While we aren't COMPLETELY powerless, the change we can make is slow and boring and not sexy or exciting at all.
To me the worst part of this campaign are creators like Jake Tran that in his video promoting #teamseas says that government regulations are not needed and harmful in dealing with pollution and climate change and we should join team seas and limit the money and power of the government because they just waist money and over regulate.
That type of thought process(the one present by me above) is really harmful and I’m very grateful to you for challenging this with data, great video
He said that? Christ...
@@neutch1991 not word by word but yeah he said it with that meaning
this is an excellent video, thankyou so much for pointing out some clear problems
Good job Simon, absolutely the solution to all problems is systematic and this must be addressed!
I think it is a bit weird that you didn't mention The Ocean Cleanup in this video. I agree that some of the TeamSeas misguidedly directs some of the attention away from actual solutions, but atleast they have been giving attention to The Ocean Cleanup in some of their videos.
And I hope you agree that The Ocean Cleanup atleast has provided solutions. Maybe not perfect solutions, but solutions that can help stop the problem as quick as possible - while we continue to try and solve the real problems you mentioned like less plastic waste in general and better waste disposal.
The biggest thing I would say is that they provide good science since they were the ones that mapped the Garbage Patch you referenced at the beginning of the video. They have also dug deeper into the problem and mapped which rivers are the ones we should focus on to have as large of an impact as possible. This is simply good science and knowledge we need to attack this problem. And then they have also provided possible solutions for solving these problems. The solution they provided for rivers, the Interceptors, are usually run by the locals of the rivers so I would say it fall under what you described as local solutions.
I agree with Ellie that investing in technology/innovation, developing countries' waste disposal, etc are probably the best solution in the long run. But it lacks the engagement factor or like Simon said 'visual appeal' where team seas needs a simple campaign to quickly grab the audience's attention
Mr. Beast and Mark Rober have more than enough clout to *give* it that engagement factor. Tag on a nutty experiment or world record or megadonation or something else to catch our attention if need be, then use that attention to actually follow through with doing the right thing.
The way you show the imbalance of the plastic being put in the ocean against the amount of it being taking out really help shine a light on the actual problem. Nice video !
What are team seas going to do with the plastic after they collect it from the ocean ? If they are going to recycle it , then it is a REALLY HUGE and Difficult task.
As the old folk used to say PREVENTION is BETTER than CURE. Also REDUCE , REUSE and then only Recycle .🙂
This was a good video that provided perspective to the scale of the plastic problem.
Pretty sure mark rober does mention that it would be far more important to upgrade the infrastructure in developing countries. Though I'd argue that you still have to get the stuff out the ocean. But I like that you set it into context
Yeah, but only cleanup doesn't work. ALSO prevent more from getting in though.
While I agree with your underlying point; most of this is covered in Mark Rober's companion video where he talks about the systems, the short term effort to catch stuff before it gets to the ocean, and the long term effort to improve the systems so that stuff doesn't get to the seas in the first place.
Thanks Simon, great video! It's a complicated topic that we should be confronting ourselves with.
THIS
Going to share this with people (as well as some groups i work with “Precious Plastic” and “Open Source Ecology” ; we do a little self congratulation…)
Also I’ll look into those groups you mentioned.
But this is 100% needed. Too many people think that plastic pollution is them not having a cotton bag, when really it is ghost nets, developing countries without waste disposal workflows, and rampant use of single use plastics leading to them being considered disposable/not a big deal to loose/litter.
I hope videos like this can help keep people aware of this, and hopefully make a dent in this issue!
Thanks for proving that you didn't watch Mark Rober's video.
I honestly wish I could like this 100 times, I was once pro #teamseas and I still think they have good intentions.
But after watching this video I believe the whole campaign plays no role... It really makes matters worse.
This concept has been playing in business for the last 3 decades. Feeding from the guilt of people.
Like "yeah we can totally end plastics by paying 1 dollar each".
I wish it was like that but it's not.
Thanks Sam ♥
Yeah, it's a bit like the oil companies inventing the concept of "your carbon footprint" in order to shift the concern off of them and on to each of us. People who might have put their energy into activism that would accomplish something instead focus on minimizing their carbon footprint and do nothing else.
@@incognitotorpedo42 Yep, they focus on their own little footprint instead of industry's massive bootprint.
Wow this video is very important, gonna share it
brilliant video mate
There's the in between solution presented in Marc Roberts video of trying to filter rivers, but it's definitely part of the "you have to keep going." Especially as this task is done by a start up who might fold in a couple of years.
Autocorrect did you dirty
Excellent video, Simon! I had released a similar video two weeks ago so it’s really great to see a more comprehensive critique of #Teamseas. We definitely need to reduce single use plastic use + production and significantly improve waste management infrastructure in developing countries.
Excellent video, thank you for the insight here. It really helped put things into perspective, and serves as a good reminder to cut these sorts of environmental issues at the source, rather than continuing to produce what we know to be harmful.
Excellent video Simon, well considered.
Please make a pinned comment where you write that the sources are in the description. Because of the hashtag you used, many of his viewers will see this, and I don’t think they are the brightest thinkers, at least not when they’re angry…
To give another angle, Forbes says the average American produces 100 lbs of plastic waste per year. IUCN says that 300 million tons are produced globally, and that 8 million tons end up in the ocean
8 mil in ocean/300 mil total = 2.7% of plastic waste ends up in the ocean
100lbs * 2.7% * $1 per pound = 2.7 dollars for the average American to remove their oceanic waste for the year.
I mean, thats a pretty sweet deal. If there was a new federal tax introduced asking for 3 dollars per person to go clean up their ocean waste for the year, I wouldn’t be apposed to it.
At a dollar per pound and 330 billion pounds total, the math is pretty simple. If just the US wanted to clean up the oceans in a decade, we’d need to find a spare ~50 billion dollars and then 18 billion annually to keep it clean. Honesty way cheaper than I expected it to be
I wouldn’t say this project is entirely vapid. If these ocean clean up robots can guarantee 1 dollar a pound, we could really make a difference if we implant them on a mass scale. Though the systematic change argument also makes sense. 18 billion each and every year is honestly crazy for such a solvable problem
Ps
But think of the national pride in a project like that. “Yeah we, team America, just cleaned up literally the entire ocean. How bout it?”
Yeah it could be done in 50 billion dollars i guess , but the aim of the project is 30 million they are undercutting it like waaaay to much
In that much money we can have much more efficient solutions , and the point also is that they can't guarantee 1 pound per dollar since scalling this up to 50 mill will have dozens of more logistics problems
Thanks for this eye opening video, it's good to know that you've got our back! Is there anything we can do to redirect this project to a better path?
Great video Simon