I work with industrial machines that use drag chains. There are two things that are very important when putting cables in them. First, make sure the cable is not twisted, and you they should not be under tension or too loose. There is an easy way to archive this. You just tighten the strain relief on one end and then you move the axis back and forth between it's limits a couple of times - this relaxes the cable - make sure the cables can move freely on the loose end, then they should also untwist to a certain extend (but still look at the cables to see if still something is twisted, just in case. Next look at what position the cable is pulled into the chain - that determines the needed length in the chain. In this position you tighten the strain relief on the other end - but leave a little slack. One big factor for damaged cables is dirt, that accumulates on the cables. This dirt will cause additional friction. Therefor you should keep them clean (vacuum or compressed air). On machines where it is not possible to remove the dirt as it is too sticky, we used silicon spray (but keep in mind, that the cable's jacket needs to be specced for this). I've seen people use WD40, but that's not a good idea, because A: WD40 is not a lubricant and B: it contains solvent, which can weaken the cable jackets.
Thanks for the comment. I know it's 7 months old by now but good and correct information is timeless (well, that is, until it's outdated which it isn't in this case!). I'm designing right now my own printer/light job CNC/laser engraver and went quite balls out on it, which does include drag chains on all axis. This does give me good info on how to set them up properly when assembling. I'm also looking into protecting the linear rods and lead screws against dust since I plan on using it as a PCB drill and wood mill, was gonna add some protective bellows on it, enclosing even the drag chains but that turned out a tad too hard and costly, still gonna find a way to protect those rods and lead screws tho.
We're back! Things are alive and kicking up in Fargo, ND! 14:44 The Mini 1 has a little age on it now, but the Mini 2 and TAZ Pro are two excellent examples of Cable Management in our current lineup.
where can I get a CR-10 with internal control box? xD it's cool Thomas, they both kinda look the same. none gonna blame you. besides, you used only your notes and you sounded just as good as you always do.
I printed and installed a drag chain to my ender 3 for the cleanness and just over all look, but watching this video gave me even more appreciation on this design. I also see things where I can adjust as well now. Great video aside from constant reminder of CR10 lol
Hey, I'm a drag chain expert working for Kabelschlepp. Good video, covers the basics. As speeds increase other factors some in to play as well as with greater travel distances. If you didn't mention Igus so much I'd share the video on our corporate page but they are a competitor. Glad you use the term drag chain rather than Energy chain which is a brand name not a product name. Like vacuum cleaner rather than Hover. Thanks
There are two kinds of network cable. The in-wall type are not rated for motion (solid or not finely stranded), and the stranded types for interconnecting cables that are intended to handle flexing.
I used a mixture of 4 designs for my ender 3 and i love it. Prevents my wires from drooping onto my build surface. and keeps them confined. Took awhile to print, but was totally worth it. Took abit to make sure it moved smoothly. A little bit of sanding and alot of moving them back and forth before installation, but its easy enough to do mindlessly while watching youtube.
Great Vid Tom. As an industrial engineer, we found anytime we could allow cables to hang free, they lasted longer than if they were constrained. Just the same, we always avoided keeping cables tied together, which makes them pretty, but also causes premature failures. Freedom of movement is the key, even with extra flex cables.
Tom, one episode topic suggestion: In 3d printers where the Y axis is a moving heated bed, I have been noticing that if the object is a large cylinder, that the circularity slowly becomes more and more imperfect as the weight of the cylinder increases. This imperfection is most noticeable if the cylindrical object is later put on a lathe. For Delta and 'Voron' type 3d printers, where the bed is stationary, does this progressively- increasing non-circularity problem go away? You have several printers with a stationary bed, plus standard moving bed cartesian - so you can test this circularity problem. Your audience will find it very interesting for sure. Thanks!
Does Prusa Original exhibit the artifact too? I'm thinking just deleting the typical bed springs can make a lot of this artifact go away. I mean it stands to reason that the springs allow some rotational movement of the bed around the center of the bed carriage, and the Y acceleration of the bed assembly would impart this spring movement. It's a possibility, that the weight of the print has fairly little influence on the artifact, but the progressive worsening comes merely from the fact that the same angle of rotation will impart a higher displacement up the print. Fundamentally, there is a weight influence, as the acceleration is fixed in software, thus there is a higher driving force to maintain same acceleration with increasing weight, and in turn some of this force ends up acting against the springs and compressing them. Making the springs significantly stiffer or preloading them with a lot more force can be a valid partial mitigation. I have never heard of a Voron, looking now, quite intrigued. Most printers with vertically moving bed still have some construction issues, such as the rods being more prone to bend in the middle of the bed travel. The thing to remember with Delta is that they can be overall pretty flimsy and can only drive super light toolheads, but at least its flimsiness only ever affects the head, not the platform. Still, it can vary depending on print head height.
Im glad I have wanted one of their printers even since i started watching James Brutons videos. I ordered my first prusa a week ago so its going to be a while before i get a Lulz.
@@TomsBackyardWorkshop I can vouch for the quality of IT-Works 3D's toolheads. I ordered a 1.75mm Titan Aero Pro (for my Taz 6) from them a while back and it works like a dream. Being able to use the same filament on both my Prusa and Lulzbot is incredibly convenient.
They just finished their move there and have gotten their print farm back up and running. I finally got a response on a support ticket and it looks like they are ramping service back up. I was very glad to see them survive and start getting back on their feet.
I''ve the same issue on a new build. I used the thicker split conduit for the X axis and the spiral wrap for the y axis, but need to make the X axis wires longer since I like to run them over the gantry on my other machines. The wiring going into the SKR mini is a nightmare though. I suppose I need to hack on the Marlin sources some to get the sd card reader on the LCD to work, since right now I have a tacky looking SD to microSD extension going directly into the board and foam taped to the acrylic.
@npgoalkeeper _ you can drill it of course. But duplex stainless is more malleable and durable, not thin, brittle and prone to cracking like tape measure, good luck with a drilled anchor in that. Tape measure with its commonly bowed crossection is designed for straight runs with bending in one plane, not bending load and flexion in more than one. I.E how to destroy a tape measure quickly, repeatedly bend and stress it in anything but that one axis, even then they are considered a consumable in the building industry. Those end anchors are important, because if you don't rigidly anchor the ends of what is effectively a spring then you are increasing the load on whatever strain relief, if any, you've provided for your cable run by half the spring constant per end.
Flat-flex cables[1] have been used in consumer 2D printers *forever* at this point, and for good reason, so it's nice to see them appearing in 3D printers as well. Just as with drag chains and any other wire management system, you do still have to design things properly to ensure the FFC doesn't bend too tightly, either along its length or at a connector, but I'd guess it's a bit easier than with regular wires because you only really have one direction of movement to worry about. You also have to be careful with the current you're putting through them, as the copper is intentionally very thin, and each wire/track within the FFC tends not to be very wide either, but you have to do that with any wire, so that's not a big deal. I'm assuming that the X1 gangs multiple tracks in parallel for things like the hotend heater. [1] I could be wrong, but I think the X1 uses FFCs rather than ribbon cables. FFCs are essentially flexible PCBs - a layer of copper sandwiched between two layers of polyimide ("Kapton"/"Koptan"/"Captain™" tape). Ribbon cables are the things used to connect ancient PATA/IDE hard disk drives and floppy disk drives to PCs :)
@npgoalkeeper _ This is true, yes. I may be guilty of underestimating the cost of that (monetary/complexity/maintainability) because I'm an electronics hobbyist who enjoys designing PCBs, can get very good results from home-etched boards (pre-sensitised laminates from Bungard, or Microtrak from the now-defunct-I-think Mega Electronics in the UK, rather than using a toner-transfer method or a self-applied etch-resist film; though those are typically only for prototypes, with final boards ordered from Seeed, usually), has no trouble soldering even fairly fine-pitch components, and has the disposable income to throw at stuff like that (mustn't forget that aspect!). I'm just currently lacking the time for this stuff! 😣 In fact, I already have a couple of moderately-complex PCBs as part of my printer - one is mostly to take the EN+STEP+DIR lines of the 5 motor outputs of my Smoothieboard X5 and feed them into sockets for Trinamic TMC2100 silentStepStick modules, with various configuration jumpers, input for a dedicated power supply for the motor drivers, and such. The other is a Raspberry Pi HAT to control various things like lighting & fans in the LACK enclosure. At some point I'd like to publish the schematics, PCB layouts, gerbers, etc., as well as RUclips video(s) discussing them, but my life has been a mess over the past few years and I've not yet been able to find the time 😩 Anyway, bear in mind that FFC breakout PCBs are available to buy pretty affordably, if you don't want to create your own. Pimoroni has their "What The Flex" product, which is admittedly on the pricier end of things, but accepts FFCs with up to 40 pins/lines and with either 0.5mm or 1.0mm pitch (the two most commonly seen pin pitches in FFCs). It breaks that out to a *single row* of 0.1"/2.54mm header pins, and has a prototyping area, IIRC. Though being a single row does mean it's a fairly wide PCB. Alternatively you can find FFC breakouts all over eBay and AliExpress for only a few money units (probably Banggood, too, but I rarely search there). They're primarily in 0.5mm and 1.0mm pitches (others are available, I believe), and with a wide range of FFC widths/pin counts, so you can buy one that exactly matches the FFC you're using and have it fit perfectly, which is probably better for semi-permanent use than Pimoroni's What The Flex, which relies on you inserting the FFC in exactly the right position if it's not using all 40 pins. The AliExpress/eBay boards also use two rows of pins, which dramatically reduces board width - again, making them better for semi-permanent use, but less-convenient for prototyping and experimentation.
@@frankhovis Then they weren't proper patch cables, even if sold as such - all the standards (US, European etc) require stranded wire for patch cables and solid for infrastructure.
TLDR: If using the original drag chain: - Make sure you never tight the cable nor push it (so it want to get out at bending join). - Keep it slightly loose all along For any method: - Make sure to secure it at each end (with tie-rap!) - Use multi-core wires (Stranded wire) NOT solid. - Prefer a smaller wire since it can have a smaller bend radius - Always make sure the drag chain has a bending with some distance and that the wire isn't the one causing it. - They exist "drag chain cable"; low-grade one doesn't like high speed, high temperature and small bending radius. - An ethernet cable will do the job, it isn't the best wire but your printer will break way before the cable. Alternative drag chain: - Open type conduct - Spiral wrap - Mesh sleeve Only the open type conduct is equivalent to the drag chain. For the other two methods you should do: - At each end of the "drag chain" (where you will tie-rap it) you must also add some material to reduce the stress with some length to it. (Probably like multiple layers of heat shrink, electric tape) - You must add something to create the minimum bend radius. Prusa, for example, simply put a nylon filament into the drag chain!
Drag chains should NEVER be used in a vertical orientation! The chain should ALWAYS be horizontal across its width. For vertical runs the chains/cables should HANG from fixed points - one on a fully fixed, the other fixed to the moving part. For horizontal runs the chain should lie flat AND for best practice should "roll" onto a flat surface or a specially designed chain bed. Also good power cabling would typically be heavier duty than signal cabling so using multicore cables is not recommended for the power distribution. This means ALL cables delivering power to stepper motors (all four or more leads) and to heating elements (bed, nozzle etc.) Fan power is usually low and so can use similar sized wire to sensor wiring. The BEST way to cable is to use the right size wire for the job and make those wires into a cable using flexible sheathing or full length heatshrink for low signal/low power pairs - the way that F1 engineers make cables,
One trick you might want to look at -- Include a length of nylon filament in your wire bundle. I do that with the mesh jacket and the result comes out wonderful. (3mm bridge nylon, to be specific.)
This is unbelievable you make a video like a psychic! Just fixed a wire on my A8 extruder stepper wire, and ran 4 redundant ones soldered to the end connectors. Thanks for making such great consistent videos.
I think it's better to just strain relief on one side of the drag chain, especially if you stack cables on top of each other. From experience I can tell you that cables move in and out of the drag chain when it is in motion and you don't really want to restrict that movement. Preferably you would zip tie them at the end that is stationary. I worked with drag chains that provide around a meter of travel and the cables will move in and out around 3 cm or so at the dynamic end.
Replaced my cr10 bed wires with flexible large gauge silicone insulated wires soldered on to the bed and printed a drag chain, to many amps for my taste to leave that part untreated.
You forgot one technic. E3D uses a mesh sleeve with a spring steel band in it for the tool changer. I like this idea, because it might be possible to keep the cables horizontally orientated and you don't get this vibrations from the cable chain. I would try it if I would have an idea which steel band would be the right one.
I did the same thing a few years ago for my DIY printer, except I bought 2mm thick nylon fishing wire. It was too flexible, so I braided 3 strands together and hot-glued (no other glues really stuck to nylon) them on both ends - this braided "wire" is enough for reinforcement of the sleeve. The machine is an i3-style printer, so I routed the extruder/X-axis cables from the top of the frame under 45deg pointing up-backwards. This gets you a nice large radius across a wide range of Z heights. To this date, I haven't found a better mechanism (drag chains included) and I'm a recreational CNC machine builder. Too bad I can't post links to images here.
@@jirij I see the main advantage of the steel band that it is flexible in one direction, but it is nearly not to bend in the other, just like the cable chain. In my CoreXY printer I could get the cables in a form like a fibonacci curve instead of looping them upwards. So I could make the enclosure smaller.
I have seen someone use cheap tape measure innards. Another i have seen used is polypropylene sheet, such as from a plastic document folder or a kitchen mat.
I can vouch for that, that's what I use. Look for large stainless steel cable ties. They are cheap and readily available in sizes from big enough to huge, easy to work and durable. Perfect for the job.
This is great. I think the bottom line is that on most of the machines out there the wire management is an afterthought.. Any of the moving parts with wire connectors will fail if the wires keep getting flexed, or if strain keeps being put on connected soldered to a PC board, the board or solder joints will fail. Thanks for the good info. Can you do a video about how to solve some of these problems. It would be good to have a video of "fixes", whether that be printed cable guides, clamps or even shrink tubing support on the back of the connectors. It looked like one of the printers you were looking at attempted to do that. They had shink tubing up to the connector. What they didn't do is extend the tubing onto the back of the connector and shrink it there to provide the needed support. well done. Thanks for your help.
As for alternatives, I am a big fan of how the Voron 2.1 did its wiring, where its using a measuring tape and cable sleeving to get a cheap and good looking chain.
Good video - another DIY 'dragchain' tip is to use a flexible steel tape measure blade within a mesh tube outer. Still like the Prusa textile option 'tho - never failed yet (maybe I shouldn't have said that :-)
Damn that's genius! I can already see easy ways to integrate this and connect it to printed mounts....time to dig out my guinea pig printer for a test!
Another possibility is to use polypropylene sheet, such as from a plastic folder of from a kitchen mat. Once you constrain both ends to one direction, the middle section forms a smooth loop. I don't know whether i came up with this thought independently, but it's not very original, googling it up it's part of several Mendel90 build instructions.
Thank you! This video is so much needed, and couples perfectly with the how to on cables and wires. Perfect! Now we just need a video on connecters, including solding vs crimping wires, and making easy well thought detachable printheads. As opposed to the VGA cable method ;)
Wow...I didn't realize Lulzbot went out of business. Where have I been. My local Microcenter still has them for sale. Expensive beasts, but they are well made. Where I work the engineering department has 4 of the TAZ's. We also have some big boys (Stratasys)...but the guys love the Lulzbot's.
@@_Piers_ good to hear. Expensive product, but the ones that are in use by some of my fellow engineers go 24×7. They shut them down to load filament, that's about it.
I use a spiral wrap with a hard 5mm diameter filament-like plastic for reinforcement (electrical fish tape). Tie the plastic firmly at ends and it will hold the wiring in a nice, predictable curve.
Ribbon cables are not that expensive. In Farnell's catalog there are ribbon cables with guaranteed cycle time on assuming a certain bending radius. I've installed one in 2006 in a machine (not in a 3D printer though so less movement) but way above 20million so far and the rating was only 10 million. I would rather buy these even when they are a little bit more expensive, the reliability is impressive, compared to a normal ribbon cable.
I'll be honest, I've been wary to bother with drag chains because I figured the were a case of a "solution looking for a problem." They look cool, which made me all the more suspicious. But I've been taking a closer look at cable/wire mgmt since getting an Ender 5 Plus -- this video was very informative!! Thank you
Great video - I'm particularly glad that you go into the details on why drag chains may not be the best solution. It seems that in the mod community drag chains are quite popular - and probably way too small to really have any benefit. Anyways - this topic has been on my mind a lot as I'm preparing a 32bit upgrade to my "Hypercube" DIY printer and noticing as well that my Prusa clone has a lot of issues. Thanks.
Hi Mr. Sanladerer; MOST challenging is having a soldiered wire connection survive within a DRAG CHAIN. AFTER wrapping each in electric tape, then bundling them togeather with electric tape - finally to place thim within that *light spiral-wrap like in your video - then placing them into the DRAG CHAIN. I will see how long it survives 10x30mm CHAIN. I believe it WILL survive for quite some time, because the sprial-wrap kind'a grips at area of soldier bulge AND the sprial wrap is super slippery, sliding thru the drag chain like an ice skater :) OH, and as you mentioned the CHAIN's bending radius - the sprial-wrap actually keep the chain from making a small radius bend. An added benefit of using the spiral-wrap around wires. I gave up on using that snake-skin wrap, as it is EXTRA aggravating when wires need replacing. (Had no shrink wrap at the time - will try that if/when fails. *I say light because RADIO SHACK once carried spiral-wrap like 2-3 times heavier and thicker, that would not fit in a 10x30mm anyway.)
One of the biggest (if not the biggest) concern with the wiring bundles, particularly to the tool head, is the strain of the wire bundle on the tool head itself. Depending on where the tool head is the wiring bundle will (most likely, dependent on design and location in the build volume) exert pressure on the tool head which can force the head in a particular direction. Once you get your printer precise enough, or have a printer that already is at that point, the wiring bundle can pull the tool head away from the bed when it is totally stretched out, for example. This is actually why I was looking up information on this - wanted to know the cons of a drag chain. I am about to add one to my printer b/c the wiring bundle as is (enclosed in a stiff mesh w/ a very large zip tie acting as a ‘spine’. Wrapped together with zip ties & heat shrink at the ends where the anchors are) causes the print to be slightly light at the far end of the build platform
Thomas, I know I am a little late in the game for a comment. In the US Navy, there are standards for cable installation and lifetime lay. You have installation specification and lifetime lay specification. Install spec. is the bend radius is no less than 8X the cable diameter. Lifetime spec. the bend radius is no less than 16X the cable diameter.
spiral binding coils are better than drag chains for most uses. super light, cheap, low friction and bend in any direction. you can even vary the amount of bend resistance along the length of the coil.
In my experience, wire thickness, number of strands, type of wire, type sheathing all play also significant roles in cable management. Basically, it should start at the product design engineering level. If the selection of the wire is not intended for the application or there is a bypass to use cheap wires or cable management for the sake of keeping cost down then at some point you are going to have issues with wire fraying and breaking. On my first Anycubic I3 Mega the first thing that wore out was the cables to the heater, due to the way those wires were attached with a tie wrap was not helping. Using tie wraps at a point where there is constant bending is a really bad solution to keeping the wires in place, in addition to the wires running on thick stiff heat shrink sleeves this would restrict the movement rather than make it smooth. The wires were also stiff minimal strands. Replacing the wires with high quality, proper gauge silicon sheathed multi-strand wires and using a cleaner method of attaching them to the rear of the bed was the solution. I have been operating that original machine to this day without issues to the cables breaking as they did within the first year of operation. Good video, and there should more emphasis from manufacturers to supply machines with much better cable management systems than the more typical cheesy ones you see on entry level machines. Even at the entry level, in today in age there should be no excuse not to use proper cable management and keep the 3D printer mechanics and aesthetics much more elegant. After considerable research into entry level desktop 3D printers when the CR10 was at the top of popularity, one of the biggest reasons I selected the Anycubic I3 Mega, when they first came out, as opposed to the Creality CR10 or similar machines was its architecture, solid and clean for the most part. The digital touch screen has a nice subtle blue white colors, no funky reds, greens, oranges or yellows. To this day I love this combination from an ease to the eye aesthetical reference. For those who understand color and how they affect the human mind, blue is typically used by companies who want to establish trust from the user in their product. Banks use blue a lot and while this may be more applicable to such entities, I really appreciate the fact Anycubic used it elegantly in their I3 mega machines. This is not the case unfortunately with their later versions. Getting back to cable management, I have yet to see a table or desktop 3d printer or laser cuter that I can say is an elegant well thought out and solid machine.
Lulzbot Minis are notorious for breaking bed heater wires in the Y axis drag chain. Way to tight a radius. I have replaced mine twice. Last time I left it out of the chain and use a length of filament for strain relief.
On the lulzbot mini the drag chain will introduce a visible print defect when the bed bearings get old and sloppy. The drag chain cause the bed to lift slightly.
I use spiral rap with a teflon tube inside next to the wires to increase the bend radius and control it's location a bit better. One or two tie wraps can secure the Z-cables
After trying the alternatives, using a decent drag chain is just a better solution to me, especially if you are using a larger build volume and/or in an enclosed space (plus it looks 'industrially' :)). The drag chain provides better support over large distances and a constrained movement path, unlike plastic wrap or mesh. Of course its unfortunately more expensive which explains why you don't see it often on printers - but you can 3D print your own chain for a cheaper solution.
With cat5 you should really mention that you’re not talking about solid core cat5, because that will not last very long even in a large radius drag chain.
Actually coming out of Electronic Engineering I am still thinking to rewire my Ender 3 completely with a proper "Kabelbaum" . Means laying out the schema for the cable on a flat wood board. then hammering in headless nails, and then laying in the cables. The cables will then be tied together with a beewax cord. So you get a proper cabling, like you see that partialiy done in planes or cars.
I have a plan to use the PET sleeving over my cables, but I'm going to put a length of tape from a broken tape measure inside the sleeve. It should keep things really rigid, the cables can run along the concave surface of the tape, and it will bend very nicely and be able to move back and forth. I'm sure it will look weird, like it's levitating, but I think it's a good cheap DIY alternative to the heavy and expensive drag chains.
I'm reading comments regarding 3d printed drag chains failing frequently. I assume injection molds are a better option unless there is a good printed design I'm not aware of.
I used a metal coil tube for my first 3D printer's(Hadron ORD bot kit) wire management. Nice large bend radius and stiff to maintain it by just constraining the ends.
Drag Chain: Cat 5 is grea, but... get flex. Cat 5/6 comes in 2 ways - flex and no flex. No flex is meant for stable instalaltions (serve rrooms i.e.) and is standard. Flex is meant to be on moving things (laptop patch cables) and flexes MUCH better and longer ;) Litle secret even a ton of network people somehow never learned.
I use a light elastic material approx. 6mm wide that is used in dressmaking. This is attached to the extruder cable at one end and the other to the top aluminium bar. I position this by eye so that there is minimum flex.
FOCUS! FOCUS! - WTF? Was I your camera man during this shoot? Sorry Thomas, work on your focus.. I wait like a dog wanting to go on a walk, for your and CNC Kitchen's videos to come out, however, I'm more then willing to wait another day for you to spend it in post.
Very nice. I'm in the middle of building a Hypercube Evolution, and was just trying to decide if I want drag chains, or wrap, for my cables. I'm thinking a drag chain for the bed heater/thermistor cabling, but I may wrap the X/Y/E cabling, so I can have shorter cables. (running from the electronics in the base, to the top of a 900mm chassis is a bit of a haul)
I am having fair luck right now, using a section of coiled measuring tape along with the wires inside a braided sleeve. Bad luck using flexible adhesive cloth tape instead of the sleeve. I do not know how well it works compared to drag chain.
Tom, what do you actually think of these concepts on cube style printers (for example corexy printers) where one single drag chain sits on top and follows the x AND y movement of the printhead (for example one end of the dragchain fixed to the back-middle of the frame and the other one fixed to the printhead). I know this is not what dragchains are recommended for but is that a problem if strain relief etc is considered?
What a true 3-D printing hobbyist Would do is grab the formbot raptor and show people how to correct the issue that comes from factory. Because this raptor two in all honesty as a rock and machine for the price the build quality and the rigidity of the frame absolutely amazing. There’s a few minor things you need to do obviously fix the wiring issue if yours comes like that mine didn’t thankfully by a BMG or barn tech extruder slapped a bad boy on their and your golden. Sorry if it was hard to read I am doing speech to text while I’m walking my dog because it is freezing cold out anyways good info video Tom I do appreciate some of the stuff you do let’s try not to worry we’re actually let’s try to like show people how to fix these issues that come with these Chinese printers rather than put them down you know what I mean let’s build a community instead of trash talk everybody think that would be the best thing to do anyways that’s my thought
Nice explanation. I guess I should be happy the original Indiegogo Craftbot from Craftunique used drag chains on X and Y axis. I've had to replace a few cables inside, because I think the bundle was too tight, but otherwise the printer still works great.
A strand of ABS or PTFE tube might be better if avaliable. Just thinking eventually PLA asorbs water and becomes even more brittle. I have had old PLA snap off at the extruder for no reason when the printer is idle overnight.
@@Side85Winder PLA does not get more brittle from absorbing water, it gets less brittle from absorbing water. Just throw a piece of PLA into water and observe. You can keep it with water in a bag for a week and you shall observe that it got just more flexible and tougher, very nice. But you still shouldn't print with PLA which has absorbed water, as it will foam up and potentially degrade chemically during the melting process. I suggest that if your extruder has PTFE lining, it may be implicated in plastic deterioration, by releasing highly reactive fluorine compounds. It might not be polymerised fully, coming from low-quality chemical manufacturing, and it may be degraded by heat cycling. Some people found that simply inserting a piece of PLA into a PTFE tube for a while will make it brittle. Other influences that have been found to rapidly make PLA brittle are UV light and ozone.
Wow the print beds really move easily as you grab the cable, i would imagine that causing print artifacts as the pressure on the connector changes depending on the bed location.
I just replaced the corrugated split wire wrap with the expandable nylon mesh sleeve on my Anycubic Predator delta printer. Now my filament doesn't snag on the cable bundle anymore.
Does the drag chain have to rest on a flat surface,?? If I mount the drag chain at a certain height, then the Loop is suspended, is this alright?? Or does the chain have to rest on a flat surface when looped around??
Let's play a drinking game and take a shot every time Tom calls a printer by the wrong name... ...I finished the video and now I cant drive for hours...
nice project you got there, but :D why using simple threaded rods ? use trapezoidal threaded rods, and fix them to construction with bearings, all that X weight on two small stepper motors
The ender 3 has decent wire bundles, but they can get tangled on each other and caught on the bed. I'll going to have to add drag chains just to keep them separate.
I think I will just go with a cable sleeve similar to Prusa. Then add some weed eater line to stiffen it up. Maybe add some shrink wrap to the ends and then throw on some strain relief.
I know you're not asking me, but my 2 cents, I've two printers with injected molded chains and 2 with printed chains. So long as your printer is tuned nicely, the printed chains work just as well as injected ones. One thing I like better about my printed chains is I use a design with 2 different links....one has 1 side open (like a U) and the other has the opposite side open....so when I need to remove/replace/add any wires, I just deconstruct the drag chain link by link instead of having to disconnect every wire and feed it back through the drag chain.
I've used both printed and injection molded and by far just buy some injection molded ones. There super cheap and will last forever. All my pla links warped from the heat bed, abs ones cracked after a year/10,000 hrs. For how long they take to print it's not worth it. They're also no as smooth as real ones. Either too tight or too loose. I have also printed the u shape ones mentioned above. It sounds good but was just as much as a pain and over all made the links weaker and more play. Also kept loosing the bars. For the all of 2 times ever in 3 years it's not that much of a convenience
I like printing my own drag chain links in TPU - cost not an issue. I have a parametric SCAD file for customizing the links and end mounts from Thingiverse. The hard plastic edges of PLA links will wear the wire insulation over time. Don't try printing the links connected with TPU, but they print separately w/o supports very nicely.
I work with industrial machines that use drag chains. There are two things that are very important when putting cables in them. First, make sure the cable is not twisted, and you they should not be under tension or too loose. There is an easy way to archive this. You just tighten the strain relief on one end and then you move the axis back and forth between it's limits a couple of times - this relaxes the cable - make sure the cables can move freely on the loose end, then they should also untwist to a certain extend (but still look at the cables to see if still something is twisted, just in case.
Next look at what position the cable is pulled into the chain - that determines the needed length in the chain. In this position you tighten the strain relief on the other end - but leave a little slack.
One big factor for damaged cables is dirt, that accumulates on the cables. This dirt will cause additional friction. Therefor you should keep them clean (vacuum or compressed air). On machines where it is not possible to remove the dirt as it is too sticky, we used silicon spray (but keep in mind, that the cable's jacket needs to be specced for this). I've seen people use WD40, but that's not a good idea, because A: WD40 is not a lubricant and B: it contains solvent, which can weaken the cable jackets.
Thanks for the comment. I know it's 7 months old by now but good and correct information is timeless (well, that is, until it's outdated which it isn't in this case!). I'm designing right now my own printer/light job CNC/laser engraver and went quite balls out on it, which does include drag chains on all axis. This does give me good info on how to set them up properly when assembling.
I'm also looking into protecting the linear rods and lead screws against dust since I plan on using it as a PCB drill and wood mill, was gonna add some protective bellows on it, enclosing even the drag chains but that turned out a tad too hard and costly, still gonna find a way to protect those rods and lead screws tho.
We're back! Things are alive and kicking up in Fargo, ND! 14:44
The Mini 1 has a little age on it now, but the Mini 2 and TAZ Pro are two excellent examples of Cable Management in our current lineup.
🥳
nice to see you are back
yayeee!!!!
i really like the lulzbot printer design
Honey, I've shrunk the CR-10!
I was wondering what the whole CR-10 vs CR-10 deal was
The CR-10 is Sooooooo much better than the CR-10...
cr10.....
Wasn't that the Ender 3?
where can I get a CR-10 with internal control box? xD it's cool Thomas, they both kinda look the same. none gonna blame you. besides, you used only your notes and you sounded just as good as you always do.
I printed and installed a drag chain to my ender 3 for the cleanness and just over all look, but watching this video gave me even more appreciation on this design. I also see things where I can adjust as well now. Great video aside from constant reminder of CR10 lol
Hey, I'm a drag chain expert working for Kabelschlepp. Good video, covers the basics. As speeds increase other factors some in to play as well as with greater travel distances. If you didn't mention Igus so much I'd share the video on our corporate page but they are a competitor. Glad you use the term drag chain rather than Energy chain which is a brand name not a product name. Like vacuum cleaner rather than Hover.
Thanks
There are two kinds of network cable. The in-wall type are not rated for motion (solid or not finely stranded), and the stranded types for interconnecting cables that are intended to handle flexing.
Was looking for this, most people cheap out when buying cable and therefore think all cable is created equal as solid.
I used a mixture of 4 designs for my ender 3 and i love it. Prevents my wires from drooping onto my build surface. and keeps them confined. Took awhile to print, but was totally worth it. Took abit to make sure it moved smoothly. A little bit of sanding and alot of moving them back and forth before installation, but its easy enough to do mindlessly while watching youtube.
Great Vid Tom. As an industrial engineer, we found anytime we could allow cables to hang free, they lasted longer than if they were constrained. Just the same, we always avoided keeping cables tied together, which makes them pretty, but also causes premature failures. Freedom of movement is the key, even with extra flex cables.
Tom, one episode topic suggestion: In 3d printers where the Y axis is a moving heated bed, I have been noticing that if the object is a large cylinder, that the circularity slowly becomes more and more imperfect as the weight of the cylinder increases. This imperfection is most noticeable if the cylindrical object is later put on a lathe. For Delta and 'Voron' type 3d printers, where the bed is stationary, does this progressively- increasing non-circularity problem go away? You have several printers with a stationary bed, plus standard moving bed cartesian - so you can test this circularity problem. Your audience will find it very interesting for sure. Thanks!
Does Prusa Original exhibit the artifact too? I'm thinking just deleting the typical bed springs can make a lot of this artifact go away. I mean it stands to reason that the springs allow some rotational movement of the bed around the center of the bed carriage, and the Y acceleration of the bed assembly would impart this spring movement. It's a possibility, that the weight of the print has fairly little influence on the artifact, but the progressive worsening comes merely from the fact that the same angle of rotation will impart a higher displacement up the print. Fundamentally, there is a weight influence, as the acceleration is fixed in software, thus there is a higher driving force to maintain same acceleration with increasing weight, and in turn some of this force ends up acting against the springs and compressing them. Making the springs significantly stiffer or preloading them with a lot more force can be a valid partial mitigation.
I have never heard of a Voron, looking now, quite intrigued.
Most printers with vertically moving bed still have some construction issues, such as the rods being more prone to bend in the middle of the bed travel.
The thing to remember with Delta is that they can be overall pretty flimsy and can only drive super light toolheads, but at least its flimsiness only ever affects the head, not the platform. Still, it can vary depending on print head height.
Lulzbot is still in business, they were bought out and moved to Fargo, ND
Im glad I have wanted one of their printers even since i started watching James Brutons videos. I ordered my first prusa a week ago so its going to be a while before i get a Lulz.
We build custom toolheads, and have tons of parts for lulzbot machines, so if you ever have any questions, let us know.
@@TomsBackyardWorkshop I can vouch for the quality of IT-Works 3D's toolheads. I ordered a 1.75mm Titan Aero Pro (for my Taz 6) from them a while back and it works like a dream. Being able to use the same filament on both my Prusa and Lulzbot is incredibly convenient.
Much love for IT-Works 3D, you guys gave me a great deal on an open box Taz 6 back in 2017 and it has been running like a champ ever since.
They just finished their move there and have gotten their print farm back up and running. I finally got a response on a support ticket and it looks like they are ramping service back up. I was very glad to see them survive and start getting back on their feet.
I'll take this as a reminder to finally sort out cable managment on my cheap prusa clone.
Mine looks like a jungle
I''ve the same issue on a new build. I used the thicker split conduit for the X axis and the spiral wrap for the y axis, but need to make the X axis wires longer since I like to run them over the gantry on my other machines. The wiring going into the SKR mini is a nightmare though. I suppose I need to hack on the Marlin sources some to get the sd card reader on the LCD to work, since right now I have a tacky looking SD to microSD extension going directly into the board and foam taped to the acrylic.
Put a piece of old tape measure in the braided sleeve, and it makes a cheap, light-weight drag chain. It's really popular on MPCNCs.
brilliant idea! Noise-wise it should be better them drag chain, definitely gonna use it.
A large stainless steel cable tie is even better, doesn't have the very sharp edges of a tape measure and can be drilled and anchored at the ends.
@npgoalkeeper _ you can drill it of course. But duplex stainless is more malleable and durable, not thin, brittle and prone to cracking like tape measure, good luck with a drilled anchor in that. Tape measure with its commonly bowed crossection is designed for straight runs with bending in one plane, not bending load and flexion in more than one. I.E how to destroy a tape measure quickly, repeatedly bend and stress it in anything but that one axis, even then they are considered a consumable in the building industry. Those end anchors are important, because if you don't rigidly anchor the ends of what is effectively a spring then you are increasing the load on whatever strain relief, if any, you've provided for your cable run by half the spring constant per end.
That's what I like about the Sidewinder X1. The ribbon cable layout essentially uses drag chain physics without the drag chain.
As long as the connector has strain relief...
Flat-flex cables[1] have been used in consumer 2D printers *forever* at this point, and for good reason, so it's nice to see them appearing in 3D printers as well.
Just as with drag chains and any other wire management system, you do still have to design things properly to ensure the FFC doesn't bend too tightly, either along its length or at a connector, but I'd guess it's a bit easier than with regular wires because you only really have one direction of movement to worry about. You also have to be careful with the current you're putting through them, as the copper is intentionally very thin, and each wire/track within the FFC tends not to be very wide either, but you have to do that with any wire, so that's not a big deal. I'm assuming that the X1 gangs multiple tracks in parallel for things like the hotend heater.
[1] I could be wrong, but I think the X1 uses FFCs rather than ribbon cables. FFCs are essentially flexible PCBs - a layer of copper sandwiched between two layers of polyimide ("Kapton"/"Koptan"/"Captain™" tape). Ribbon cables are the things used to connect ancient PATA/IDE hard disk drives and floppy disk drives to PCs :)
@@ManIkWeet yup, always one of the first things to print when you get a Sidewinder haha
@npgoalkeeper _ This is true, yes. I may be guilty of underestimating the cost of that (monetary/complexity/maintainability) because I'm an electronics hobbyist who enjoys designing PCBs, can get very good results from home-etched boards (pre-sensitised laminates from Bungard, or Microtrak from the now-defunct-I-think Mega Electronics in the UK, rather than using a toner-transfer method or a self-applied etch-resist film; though those are typically only for prototypes, with final boards ordered from Seeed, usually), has no trouble soldering even fairly fine-pitch components, and has the disposable income to throw at stuff like that (mustn't forget that aspect!). I'm just currently lacking the time for this stuff! 😣
In fact, I already have a couple of moderately-complex PCBs as part of my printer - one is mostly to take the EN+STEP+DIR lines of the 5 motor outputs of my Smoothieboard X5 and feed them into sockets for Trinamic TMC2100 silentStepStick modules, with various configuration jumpers, input for a dedicated power supply for the motor drivers, and such. The other is a Raspberry Pi HAT to control various things like lighting & fans in the LACK enclosure.
At some point I'd like to publish the schematics, PCB layouts, gerbers, etc., as well as RUclips video(s) discussing them, but my life has been a mess over the past few years and I've not yet been able to find the time 😩
Anyway, bear in mind that FFC breakout PCBs are available to buy pretty affordably, if you don't want to create your own.
Pimoroni has their "What The Flex" product, which is admittedly on the pricier end of things, but accepts FFCs with up to 40 pins/lines and with either 0.5mm or 1.0mm pitch (the two most commonly seen pin pitches in FFCs). It breaks that out to a *single row* of 0.1"/2.54mm header pins, and has a prototyping area, IIRC. Though being a single row does mean it's a fairly wide PCB.
Alternatively you can find FFC breakouts all over eBay and AliExpress for only a few money units (probably Banggood, too, but I rarely search there). They're primarily in 0.5mm and 1.0mm pitches (others are available, I believe), and with a wide range of FFC widths/pin counts, so you can buy one that exactly matches the FFC you're using and have it fit perfectly, which is probably better for semi-permanent use than Pimoroni's What The Flex, which relies on you inserting the FFC in exactly the right position if it's not using all 40 pins. The AliExpress/eBay boards also use two rows of pins, which dramatically reduces board width - again, making them better for semi-permanent use, but less-convenient for prototyping and experimentation.
Cat 5 is okay but make sure they're stranded. My last set of cat cables (that turned out solid core) lasted only about some 100 hours in my drag chain
Yeah, he should had said cat5 patch cables
@@Nero_XY I've seen patch cables with solid core wire too
the common one is the solid core tbh.
@@frankhovis Then they weren't proper patch cables, even if sold as such - all the standards (US, European etc) require stranded wire for patch cables and solid for infrastructure.
@@WazheadBoci Only for fixed infrastructure cable, though.
TLDR:
If using the original drag chain:
- Make sure you never tight the cable nor push it (so it want to get out at bending join).
- Keep it slightly loose all along
For any method:
- Make sure to secure it at each end (with tie-rap!)
- Use multi-core wires (Stranded wire) NOT solid.
- Prefer a smaller wire since it can have a smaller bend radius
- Always make sure the drag chain has a bending with some distance and that the wire isn't the one causing it.
- They exist "drag chain cable"; low-grade one doesn't like high speed, high temperature and small bending radius.
- An ethernet cable will do the job, it isn't the best wire but your printer will break way before the cable.
Alternative drag chain:
- Open type conduct
- Spiral wrap
- Mesh sleeve
Only the open type conduct is equivalent to the drag chain.
For the other two methods you should do:
- At each end of the "drag chain" (where you will tie-rap it) you must also add some material to reduce the stress with some length to it. (Probably like multiple layers of heat shrink, electric tape)
- You must add something to create the minimum bend radius. Prusa, for example, simply put a nylon filament into the drag chain!
Drag chains should NEVER be used in a vertical orientation! The chain should ALWAYS be horizontal across its width. For vertical runs the chains/cables should HANG from fixed points - one on a fully fixed, the other fixed to the moving part. For horizontal runs the chain should lie flat AND for best practice should "roll" onto a flat surface or a specially designed chain bed. Also good power cabling would typically be heavier duty than signal cabling so using multicore cables is not recommended for the power distribution. This means ALL cables delivering power to stepper motors (all four or more leads) and to heating elements (bed, nozzle etc.) Fan power is usually low and so can use similar sized wire to sensor wiring. The BEST way to cable is to use the right size wire for the job and make those wires into a cable using flexible sheathing or full length heatshrink for low signal/low power pairs - the way that F1 engineers make cables,
Kinkshaming !
This is the only kink-shaming I'll tolerate ;)
booo! get bent! (scnr)
@@AndrewGillard you will tolerate all kink shaming and like it .
LulzBot's still in business - they moved to my city: Fargo, ND!
Fellow NDr here... I cant believe that some "big" 3d printing company actually is in our state! It's really odd lol
Based on a true story...
Is that the Fargo from the movie / series?
So they down grade
@@lukedavid8099 And it's really cool! I'm sick and tired of all those countless one-hung-low asian companies.. :D
One trick you might want to look at --
Include a length of nylon filament in your wire bundle. I do that with the mesh jacket and the result comes out wonderful. (3mm bridge nylon, to be specific.)
This is unbelievable you make a video like a psychic!
Just fixed a wire on my A8 extruder stepper wire, and ran 4 redundant ones soldered to the end connectors.
Thanks for making such great consistent videos.
I think it's better to just strain relief on one side of the drag chain, especially if you stack cables on top of each other. From experience I can tell you that cables move in and out of the drag chain when it is in motion and you don't really want to restrict that movement. Preferably you would zip tie them at the end that is stationary.
I worked with drag chains that provide around a meter of travel and the cables will move in and out around 3 cm or so at the dynamic end.
I'm extremely here for cable management content.
Replaced my cr10 bed wires with flexible large gauge silicone insulated wires soldered on to the bed and printed a drag chain, to many amps for my taste to leave that part untreated.
You forgot one technic. E3D uses a mesh sleeve with a spring steel band in it for the tool changer. I like this idea, because it might be possible to keep the cables horizontally orientated and you don't get this vibrations from the cable chain. I would try it if I would have an idea which steel band would be the right one.
I did the same thing a few years ago for my DIY printer, except I bought 2mm thick nylon fishing wire. It was too flexible, so I braided 3 strands together and hot-glued (no other glues really stuck to nylon) them on both ends - this braided "wire" is enough for reinforcement of the sleeve. The machine is an i3-style printer, so I routed the extruder/X-axis cables from the top of the frame under 45deg pointing up-backwards. This gets you a nice large radius across a wide range of Z heights. To this date, I haven't found a better mechanism (drag chains included) and I'm a recreational CNC machine builder. Too bad I can't post links to images here.
@@jirij I see the main advantage of the steel band that it is flexible in one direction, but it is nearly not to bend in the other, just like the cable chain. In my CoreXY printer I could get the cables in a form like a fibonacci curve instead of looping them upwards. So I could make the enclosure smaller.
I am only not sure how fast the thin steel will cut through the sleeve
I have seen someone use cheap tape measure innards.
Another i have seen used is polypropylene sheet, such as from a plastic document folder or a kitchen mat.
I can vouch for that, that's what I use. Look for large stainless steel cable ties. They are cheap and readily available in sizes from big enough to huge, easy to work and durable. Perfect for the job.
Spiral wrap + 3mm filament is the way to go! + fixed at both ends.. :)
This is great. I think the bottom line is that on most of the machines out there the wire management is an afterthought.. Any of the moving parts with wire connectors will fail if the wires keep getting flexed, or if strain keeps being put on connected soldered to a PC board, the board or solder joints will fail. Thanks for the good info. Can you do a video about how to solve some of these problems.
It would be good to have a video of "fixes", whether that be printed cable guides, clamps or even shrink tubing support on the back of the connectors. It looked like one of the printers you were looking at attempted to do that. They had shink tubing up to the connector. What they didn't do is extend the tubing onto the back of the connector and shrink it there to provide the needed support.
well done. Thanks for your help.
As for alternatives, I am a big fan of how the Voron 2.1 did its wiring, where its using a measuring tape and cable sleeving to get a cheap and good looking chain.
I find having my printed drag chains on my ender 3 works great for keeping the cables for the heated bed and z axis from flopping into the print area.
Good video - another DIY 'dragchain' tip is to use a flexible steel tape measure blade within a mesh tube outer. Still like the Prusa textile option 'tho - never failed yet (maybe I shouldn't have said that :-)
Damn that's genius! I can already see easy ways to integrate this and connect it to printed mounts....time to dig out my guinea pig printer for a test!
Another possibility is to use polypropylene sheet, such as from a plastic folder of from a kitchen mat. Once you constrain both ends to one direction, the middle section forms a smooth loop. I don't know whether i came up with this thought independently, but it's not very original, googling it up it's part of several Mendel90 build instructions.
Thank you! This video is so much needed, and couples perfectly with the how to on cables and wires. Perfect! Now we just need a video on connecters, including solding vs crimping wires, and making easy well thought detachable printheads. As opposed to the VGA cable method ;)
I work on industrial field which I run my cable with these drag chains. I run all electrical and security cameras which holds the wire. Great video...
Wow...I didn't realize Lulzbot went out of business. Where have I been. My local Microcenter still has them for sale. Expensive beasts, but they are well made. Where I work the engineering department has 4 of the TAZ's. We also have some big boys (Stratasys)...but the guys love the Lulzbot's.
They ended up getting bought out, so Lulzbot is in business again.
@@_Piers_ good to hear. Expensive product, but the ones that are in use by some of my fellow engineers go 24×7. They shut them down to load filament, that's about it.
I use a spiral wrap with a hard 5mm diameter filament-like plastic for reinforcement (electrical fish tape). Tie the plastic firmly at ends and it will hold the wiring in a nice, predictable curve.
At work, our ethernet cable didn't survived in drag chain even a two weeks :D Had to buy very expensive cable.
Ribbon cables are not that expensive. In Farnell's catalog there are ribbon cables with guaranteed cycle time on assuming a certain bending radius. I've installed one in 2006 in a machine (not in a 3D printer though so less movement) but way above 20million so far and the rating was only 10 million.
I would rather buy these even when they are a little bit more expensive, the reliability is impressive, compared to a normal ribbon cable.
I'll be honest, I've been wary to bother with drag chains because I figured the were a case of a "solution looking for a problem." They look cool, which made me all the more suspicious.
But I've been taking a closer look at cable/wire mgmt since getting an Ender 5 Plus -- this video was very informative!! Thank you
You keep calling your ender 3 cr10. Even when you’re comparing to the actual CR10. It’s confusing.
Great video - I'm particularly glad that you go into the details on why drag chains may not be the best solution. It seems that in the mod community drag chains are quite popular - and probably way too small to really have any benefit. Anyways - this topic has been on my mind a lot as I'm preparing a 32bit upgrade to my "Hypercube" DIY printer and noticing as well that my Prusa clone has a lot of issues. Thanks.
i think a lot of people use them just for their looks
Great informations, I'm going to wire my mpcnc and going to use drags chains. Perfect video for my project. 👍
Hi Mr. Sanladerer;
MOST challenging is having a soldiered wire connection survive within a DRAG CHAIN.
AFTER wrapping each in electric tape, then bundling them togeather with electric tape - finally to place thim within that *light spiral-wrap like in your video - then placing them into the DRAG CHAIN. I will see how long it survives 10x30mm CHAIN.
I believe it WILL survive for quite some time, because the sprial-wrap kind'a grips at area of soldier bulge AND the sprial wrap is super slippery, sliding thru the drag chain like an ice skater :) OH, and as you mentioned the CHAIN's bending radius - the sprial-wrap actually keep the chain from making a small radius bend. An added benefit of using the spiral-wrap around wires.
I gave up on using that snake-skin wrap, as it is EXTRA aggravating when wires need replacing.
(Had no shrink wrap at the time - will try that if/when fails. *I say light because RADIO SHACK once carried spiral-wrap like 2-3 times heavier and thicker, that would not fit in a 10x30mm anyway.)
One of the biggest (if not the biggest) concern with the wiring bundles, particularly to the tool head, is the strain of the wire bundle on the tool head itself. Depending on where the tool head is the wiring bundle will (most likely, dependent on design and location in the build volume) exert pressure on the tool head which can force the head in a particular direction.
Once you get your printer precise enough, or have a printer that already is at that point, the wiring bundle can pull the tool head away from the bed when it is totally stretched out, for example.
This is actually why I was looking up information on this - wanted to know the cons of a drag chain. I am about to add one to my printer b/c the wiring bundle as is (enclosed in a stiff mesh w/ a very large zip tie acting as a ‘spine’. Wrapped together with zip ties & heat shrink at the ends where the anchors are) causes the print to be slightly light at the far end of the build platform
You're usually spot on so what's up with calling an ender 3 a cr10? Too many printers? 😂✌
Prusa i3 Mk3 X-axis motor wires are guilty of bending at the motor, too.
Thanks, that's some great information since I'm just about to install one or more drag chains on my DIY printer 😃.
Way to avoid the elephant in the room, how drag chain isn't supposed to be installed horizontally especially unsupported...
11:33 my CR-10 was purchased in 2017. The included SD card already had a file to print the strain relief part, so that was my first print.
Good cheap substitute for a cable chain: cut an old tape measure and put it inside the mesh sleeving alongside the cables. Found it on the V1 forum.
I'm very surprised to find no mention of 3D-printable drag chain... whats up with that?
@@VertexDigitalArts I understand your point, but on the other hand 3D printing components at a decreased cost is also one of the main purposes as well
Wow, great video Thomas! I always wondered how the wires are going inside of the meshsleve
Missed these kind of videos. Great work😍
Thomas, I know I am a little late in the game for a comment. In the US Navy, there are standards for cable installation and lifetime lay. You have installation specification and lifetime lay specification. Install spec. is the bend radius is no less than 8X the cable diameter. Lifetime spec. the bend radius is no less than 16X the cable diameter.
Bulk cat-5, 5e, and 6 intended for permanent installation is pretty much always going to be solid core. Careful when selecting.
spiral binding coils are better than drag chains for most uses. super light, cheap, low friction and bend in any direction. you can even vary the amount of bend resistance along the length of the coil.
In my experience, wire thickness, number of strands, type of wire, type sheathing all play also significant roles in cable management. Basically, it should start at the product design engineering level. If the selection of the wire is not intended for the application or there is a bypass to use cheap wires or cable management for the sake of keeping cost down then at some point you are going to have issues with wire fraying and breaking.
On my first Anycubic I3 Mega the first thing that wore out was the cables to the heater, due to the way those wires were attached with a tie wrap was not helping. Using tie wraps at a point where there is constant bending is a really bad solution to keeping the wires in place, in addition to the wires running on thick stiff heat shrink sleeves this would restrict the movement rather than make it smooth. The wires were also stiff minimal strands. Replacing the wires with high quality, proper gauge silicon sheathed multi-strand wires and using a cleaner method of attaching them to the rear of the bed was the solution. I have been operating that original machine to this day without issues to the cables breaking as they did within the first year of operation.
Good video, and there should more emphasis from manufacturers to supply machines with much better cable management systems than the more typical cheesy ones you see on entry level machines. Even at the entry level, in today in age there should be no excuse not to use proper cable management and keep the 3D printer mechanics and aesthetics much more elegant.
After considerable research into entry level desktop 3D printers when the CR10 was at the top of popularity, one of the biggest reasons I selected the Anycubic I3 Mega, when they first came out, as opposed to the Creality CR10 or similar machines was its architecture, solid and clean for the most part. The digital touch screen has a nice subtle blue white colors, no funky reds, greens, oranges or yellows. To this day I love this combination from an ease to the eye aesthetical reference. For those who understand color and how they affect the human mind, blue is typically used by companies who want to establish trust from the user in their product. Banks use blue a lot and while this may be more applicable to such entities, I really appreciate the fact Anycubic used it elegantly in their I3 mega machines. This is not the case unfortunately with their later versions.
Getting back to cable management, I have yet to see a table or desktop 3d printer or laser cuter that I can say is an elegant well thought out and solid machine.
Why wouldn't anet atleast solder the wires on the bed? That's like the number one spot on everyone's anet that turns brown with use.
Lulzbot Minis are notorious for breaking bed heater wires in the Y axis drag chain. Way to tight a radius. I have replaced mine twice. Last time I left it out of the chain and use a length of filament for strain relief.
On the lulzbot mini the drag chain will introduce a visible print defect when the bed bearings get old and sloppy. The drag chain cause the bed to lift slightly.
I use spiral rap with a teflon tube inside next to the wires to increase the bend radius and control it's location a bit better. One or two tie wraps can secure the Z-cables
After trying the alternatives, using a decent drag chain is just a better solution to me, especially if you are using a larger build volume and/or in an enclosed space (plus it looks 'industrially' :)). The drag chain provides better support over large distances and a constrained movement path, unlike plastic wrap or mesh. Of course its unfortunately more expensive which explains why you don't see it often on printers - but you can 3D print your own chain for a cheaper solution.
With cat5 you should really mention that you’re not talking about solid core cat5, because that will not last very long even in a large radius drag chain.
Those gray cables remind me of Amphenol cables from my time in the telecom industry.
Actually coming out of Electronic Engineering I am still thinking to rewire my Ender 3 completely with a proper "Kabelbaum" . Means laying out the schema for the cable on a flat wood board. then hammering in headless nails, and then laying in the cables. The cables will then be tied together with a beewax cord. So you get a proper cabling, like you see that partialiy done in planes or cars.
I have a plan to use the PET sleeving over my cables, but I'm going to put a length of tape from a broken tape measure inside the sleeve. It should keep things really rigid, the cables can run along the concave surface of the tape, and it will bend very nicely and be able to move back and forth. I'm sure it will look weird, like it's levitating, but I think it's a good cheap DIY alternative to the heavy and expensive drag chains.
Did this work or did it fail too quick?
I'm reading comments regarding 3d printed drag chains failing frequently. I assume injection molds are a better option unless there is a good printed design I'm not aware of.
I used a metal coil tube for my first 3D printer's(Hadron ORD bot kit) wire management. Nice large bend radius and stiff to maintain it by just constraining the ends.
Drag Chain: Cat 5 is grea, but... get flex. Cat 5/6 comes in 2 ways - flex and no flex. No flex is meant for stable instalaltions (serve rrooms i.e.) and is standard. Flex is meant to be on moving things (laptop patch cables) and flexes MUCH better and longer ;) Litle secret even a ton of network people somehow never learned.
11:00 I wished my ender was a cr 10 xp
I use a light elastic material approx. 6mm wide that is used in dressmaking. This is attached to the extruder cable at one end and the other to the top aluminium bar.
I position this by eye so that there is minimum flex.
Just saying, my CR-10 that I recieved about a month ago DID have that extra strain relief at the back of the build plate for the Y axis.
with these standing conigurations a larger radius is actually not ideal, because the added weight on top increases strain on both chain and wires.
Thanks, now I know how to wire up my MPCNC properly!
FOCUS! FOCUS! - WTF? Was I your camera man during this shoot? Sorry Thomas, work on your focus.. I wait like a dog wanting to go on a walk, for your and CNC Kitchen's videos to come out, however, I'm more then willing to wait another day for you to spend it in post.
15:45 Unfortunately, Luzbot did not know how to make a machine that cost less than 1K. you can do things right and cheaper...
What about using a cable sheath inside a drag chain? I do that on my anet a8 and it had worked well. What are your thoughts?
Very nice. I'm in the middle of building a Hypercube Evolution, and was just trying to decide if I want drag chains, or wrap, for my cables. I'm thinking a drag chain for the bed heater/thermistor cabling, but I may wrap the X/Y/E cabling, so I can have shorter cables. (running from the electronics in the base, to the top of a 900mm chassis is a bit of a haul)
I am having fair luck right now, using a section of coiled measuring tape along with the wires inside a braided sleeve. Bad luck using flexible adhesive cloth tape instead of the sleeve. I do not know how well it works compared to drag chain.
Tom, what do you actually think of these concepts on cube style printers (for example corexy printers) where one single drag chain sits on top and follows the x AND y movement of the printhead (for example one end of the dragchain fixed to the back-middle of the frame and the other one fixed to the printhead). I know this is not what dragchains are recommended for but is that a problem if strain relief etc is considered?
What a true 3-D printing hobbyist Would do is grab the formbot raptor and show people how to correct the issue that comes from factory. Because this raptor two in all honesty as a rock and machine for the price the build quality and the rigidity of the frame absolutely amazing. There’s a few minor things you need to do obviously fix the wiring issue if yours comes like that mine didn’t thankfully by a BMG or barn tech extruder slapped a bad boy on their and your golden. Sorry if it was hard to read I am doing speech to text while I’m walking my dog because it is freezing cold out anyways good info video Tom I do appreciate some of the stuff you do let’s try not to worry we’re actually let’s try to like show people how to fix these issues that come with these Chinese printers rather than put them down you know what I mean let’s build a community instead of trash talk everybody think that would be the best thing to do anyways that’s my thought
Nice explanation. I guess I should be happy the original Indiegogo Craftbot from Craftunique used drag chains on X and Y axis. I've had to replace a few cables inside, because I think the bundle was too tight, but otherwise the printer still works great.
how nice to see this printer again! =D
Same as with cables apply for the Bowden tube.
Fixing the tube in position just near the Fittings.
I've been using spiral wrap with a strand of PLA inside with the wires for the last couple of years, its holding up fine so far.
A strand of ABS or PTFE tube might be better if avaliable. Just thinking eventually PLA asorbs water and becomes even more brittle. I have had old PLA snap off at the extruder for no reason when the printer is idle overnight.
@@Side85Winder PLA does not get more brittle from absorbing water, it gets less brittle from absorbing water. Just throw a piece of PLA into water and observe. You can keep it with water in a bag for a week and you shall observe that it got just more flexible and tougher, very nice.
But you still shouldn't print with PLA which has absorbed water, as it will foam up and potentially degrade chemically during the melting process.
I suggest that if your extruder has PTFE lining, it may be implicated in plastic deterioration, by releasing highly reactive fluorine compounds. It might not be polymerised fully, coming from low-quality chemical manufacturing, and it may be degraded by heat cycling. Some people found that simply inserting a piece of PLA into a PTFE tube for a while will make it brittle.
Other influences that have been found to rapidly make PLA brittle are UV light and ozone.
Wow the print beds really move easily as you grab the cable, i would imagine that causing print artifacts as the pressure on the connector changes depending on the bed location.
I just replaced the corrugated split wire wrap with the expandable nylon mesh sleeve on my Anycubic Predator delta printer. Now my filament doesn't snag on the cable bundle anymore.
Does the drag chain have to rest on a flat surface,?? If I mount the drag chain at a certain height, then the Loop is suspended, is this alright?? Or does the chain have to rest on a flat surface when looped around??
Let's play a drinking game and take a shot every time Tom calls a printer by the wrong name...
...I finished the video and now I cant drive for hours...
nice project you got there, but :D why using simple threaded rods ? use trapezoidal threaded rods, and fix them to construction with bearings, all that X weight on two small stepper motors
In general measure the wire/cable diameter, multiply by 20 and this is the minimum bend radius.
I use spiral wrap with a length of pla inside with the wires it's thin wires.
The ender 3 has decent wire bundles, but they can get tangled on each other and caught on the bed.
I'll going to have to add drag chains just to keep them separate.
Or just insert a piece of filament in there and mount it such that it constrains enter and exit directions, the rest will follow.
Lulzbot is actually still in business
you haven't felt pain until you've tried to run pneumatic tubing through e chain
I think I will just go with a cable sleeve similar to Prusa. Then add some weed eater line to stiffen it up. Maybe add some shrink wrap to the ends and then throw on some strain relief.
How do you feel about 3d printed drag chains?
I know you're not asking me, but my 2 cents, I've two printers with injected molded chains and 2 with printed chains. So long as your printer is tuned nicely, the printed chains work just as well as injected ones.
One thing I like better about my printed chains is I use a design with 2 different links....one has 1 side open (like a U) and the other has the opposite side open....so when I need to remove/replace/add any wires, I just deconstruct the drag chain link by link instead of having to disconnect every wire and feed it back through the drag chain.
If you print them with PLA they make more noise then injected nylon ones.
I've used both printed and injection molded and by far just buy some injection molded ones. There super cheap and will last forever. All my pla links warped from the heat bed, abs ones cracked after a year/10,000 hrs. For how long they take to print it's not worth it. They're also no as smooth as real ones. Either too tight or too loose.
I have also printed the u shape ones mentioned above. It sounds good but was just as much as a pain and over all made the links weaker and more play. Also kept loosing the bars. For the all of 2 times ever in 3 years it's not that much of a convenience
one cr-10 looked a bit smaller then the other cr-10. Kinda funny but great video
Sidewinder X1 v4 uses flat-flex cables with excellent results.
Good informative video Tom - many thanks 👍
Lol. 1 meter printer with 200x200 bed :D
Its a multitool so Its pretty reasonable
I recently purchased my first 3D printer, an Ender 5, & found the wire management was non existent & wires to too short to ty-wrap them to the frame.
I like printing my own drag chain links in TPU - cost not an issue. I have a parametric SCAD file for customizing the links and end mounts from Thingiverse. The hard plastic edges of PLA links will wear the wire insulation over time. Don't try printing the links connected with TPU, but they print separately w/o supports very nicely.
Do you also print them 3 times?
How about a video on Cube printers? My Flsun has too many cables flopping around on top.