3D Printing in a 100°C Heated Chamber - Lessons Learned
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- An updated version of this project: • Heated Chambers - The ...
Printing high performance plastics on your 3D printer requires some special hardware such as a thermocouple and all metal hotend, but the most important thing is a heated chamber. Up to now all the DIY solutions have been made for aesthetics with transparent sides. To actually make a functional chamber for printing high temperature and high performance plastics you need to insulate, seal, and actively heat the chamber. Single wall acrylic sides won't do the job.
Electronics Isolation Tower Video:
• Fixing The Fan Noise o...
The CoreXY Printer I showed in this video:
• Two Trees Sapphire
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I know you already made a disclaimer about a fire hazard but I when I saw you get the heat gun out.... I can't help but tell you how dangerous that is. It is illegal for example to use the cavity in a kitchen cabinet as a heat run (it needs to be contained in duct work), the chance of fire goes up significantly when you raise the temperature of wood. One little spark in there and you will come back to lump of coal. I hope that your finished design is made of metal or some other suitable material. Otherwise, nice design!!
I love how this channel posts early prototypes and proof of concept builds with long discussions of the thought process.Just like this one. Those early builds are often unsafe, unreliable and should only be cloned to further the development.
Good point about the preheating of the wood increasing the fire hazard. Also this thing is a perfect oven. Poly-carbonate is not better from a safety perspective, both materials can emit hydrogen gas when they get charred because the heater heats it up somewhere above 300 C locally. The heater needs to be placed in its own steel enclosure with vents, so it cannot burn something if one of its holding screws fails.
Would some sort of cheap woven fiberglass material be a good basis material to construct the inside of the box from? It is heat resistant and hat a low thermal conductivity.
Menno van Lavieren, Potus Borg I agree with both you guys, I think he should have made a bigger disclaimer. Someone might build this and skip the safety warning in the video.
Eh the ignition point of wood is around 300C so at 100C you still a ways away. Sure metal would but I don’t think the wood is hazard as is.
@@Mrcaffinebean it doesn't work like that.
We print ABS all day long, and are using chambers build with the green 2-3mm (EDIT: 5MM) foam you lay under floating hardwood floors (click floors). It has metallic foil on one side, which is the inside of the chamber. It's cut with a Stanley knife in 3 minutes, assembled with duct tape. It weights one lb., cost 10$ and is ready in less than 10 minutes. The deluxe version has a piece of plexiglass duct-taped in as well.
The heat from the ender 3 105 degree C build plate will keep the chamber temp at 45 C, and a brim of 4 mm on the print will prevent warping.
We tried heating up a chamber once to 100 degrees, and the electronics gave up. It's not rated for those ambient temperatures.
If you need a quick hack on a chamber, try this out. Best, Chris
Christian petersen ...great share!
Sounds like a good solution. Do you have any pictures of the build you can share? Also, where do you source the foam with metallic foil? Around here they only come rolls costing about USD 100...
@@stoissdk , I suspect you are in Denmark too, here is the link: www.jemogfix.dk/parketunderlag-5-mm/4144/9035553/
@@stoissdk our local hardware store sells similar stuff as back side insulation for central heating radiators. About 15-20 bucks for a roll. about 1/8 in foam with thermal reflector foil on one side.
That sounds like a great solution but one thing I don't understand is how the electronics can handle that heat day in and day out?
So... a note from a Carpenter... a wider gap between the glazing will increase the amount of air "insulation" you get... but only to a point. 1/2" (aprox. 12 mm) is pretty much the max you can go between the glasing panes before convection currents start to form and any larger gap than that begins to become more of a cooling mechanism than insulating mechanism.
What about using a vacuum pump to pull a vacuum in the gap?
As an owner of a stratasys an a few other hobby printers I can give some information that makes the stratasys a better machine for printing. The heated chamber for sure is the key and in a stratasys is held at 80°c but the tip cooling and the top of the extruder are also fed ambient air from outside of the chamber which stops run away temperature
My hobby printer sits within an insulated box with a 240v ac heater and I tend to only run it up to 40°c due to the other components though the steppers within my stratasys are all in the heated chamber and whilst it is becoming and old machine now still prints very well and reliably. It is at the end of its commercial life as material is no longer available so I now have to chip it - very tempted to gut it and replace the internal controls and use the stepper and extruders as they are very good quality
which strat do you have? would you sell it?
@@mrt6399 it's a uprint dimension. Probably would consider selling it but I feel that the value it's worth now may make me keep it. Probably only worth £750~£1000 which considering I paid around £15k for it does feel quite a hit but it's made good money for me over those years
@@rkde2042 Triton3d makes stratasys compatible filament for dimension
No they cannot sue you for making a enclosure. They also cannot sue you for showing people how to make an enclosure. They can sue you for selling a printer with an enclosure.
Who can sue for what? So no one can sell a printer with an enclosure?
Anyone can sue you for any reason. A judge may throw it out as a frivolous lawsuit, but that won't stop you from spending money on lawyers. Just because they won't win doesn't mean it won't be a huge hassle.
@@jonjon3829 Heated enclosures on FDM printers are still patent-protected
@@GrubbyZebra the trademark is invalid because it is obvious
@@norro21 Yeah it would be like me patenting the process of taking a shit and then trying to sue people when they go to take a shit.
I use 1” aluminizes foam board taped with aluminum tape. Then heat with 2 small halogens and a fan inside. Electronics outside. A thermostat controls the lights. Like your small viewing window, definitely update my builds tomorrow. I’m currently designing water cooling the stepper motors with good success. Thanks, love you work
I just did that earlier today, finally got around to trying some ABS now that I'm low on everything else. Had 3 walls of 2" aluminum faced already to block the breezes in my shop already. No Auxiliary heat or fans but the print I tried came out perfectly fine. Not worried about the stock board since I have an upgrade, but I have the power supply and the filament reel on the outside. I think having the filament reel somewhere it won't catch fire if there's an issue is really important. I didn't bother to fully seal it yet, want chamber temperature monitoring first - probably an oven thermometer and viewing window to start, already available.
Use halogen bulbs rather than the heat gun. Place them over the build table, offset from the Y axis that the print head runs on. This will direct heat to the printing part. This will offer a heated chamber effect between the heated table and bulbs without overheating every other part of your printer. Still have the walls of the chamber to stop draft but leave the top open so that the printer doesn’t overheat.
If you have all motors, wiring, bearings etc in the chamber they will malfunction very quickly. This is why commercial printers with heated chambers have nothing but the build table inside the chamber, everything else is outside the chamber in a fan cooled environment, very important.
Biden’s EPA made the sale of halogen bulbs illegal in the US a couple of months ago
Looks like the patent may have finally expired in the last couple days (Feb 27, 2021).
Now we can just hope the maker market companies will jump on it like a hungry pack of wolves.
Maybe it's easier to put a 3d printer in an old oven? Especially one with fan bake ;-)
You know that’s not a bad idea. They are cheap or free all over Marketplace. Would be very safe
I did that, works well!
for small ones, a scrap microwave makes a good and cheap/free case with a door too.
if you have 2 of the same model you could even cut on each one side off and bold them together to get twice the volume,
I came here to say surely a cheap electric fan assisted oven would be absolutely perfect for this! best insulation, perfectly safe, perfect temp control, so much easier than this build in terms of effort... When I get one I might go ahead and do it!
So simple. Brilliant.
Very nice idea with the double sided windows, but it’s hard to implement. I’ll try to keep the electrics outside the chamber since most of them should run in
i heated up my bed to 110°C and 250 nozzle and make a sealed chamber "no heated chamber", that was enough to have some outstanding prints made of ABS.
and a fatal flaw what i once commited was the extruder cooling was blowing air on the print (dont get confused with print cooling like PLA needs), the fan have some of the air leaking due to turbulence inside the extruder duct, blowing from the front of the fan and consequentially cooling the print, make them bend, have bad layer adhesion and etc...
i printed a different fan holder, with the fan pulling air from the extruder instead of pushing, and have around 45° angle to blow the air upwards.
now the prints are simply amazing.
btw, the "schottky" diodes that you're talking about was called "bridge rectifier". in THIS case, 50% means *half wave rectifier*, what let pass only the half positive (or negative) portion of the sine wave to the load, and 100% means *full bridge rectifier* (or full wave rectifier if you prefer), what means it uses positive and negative portion of the sine wave.
That's a great comment! You are clearly a very smart guy, but I suspect English is not your first language. No offence is intended, I just wanted to offer a helpful grammar hint. Be careful on the the usage of the word "what" vs "that". Correct grammar is "that will let pass only half of the positive..." also, at the end of the sentence it should read "that means it uses both the positive and negative portions of the of the sine wave.
@@hermit3400 why does it matter if you understood what he said. How many languages do you know again?
I have a bunch of foam insulation sheets I was thinking of using on at least 3 walls. Double pane door is probably a bit much probably but I mainly want an enclosure for noise and to exhaust plastic fumes. It would be nice to safely be in the same room while it’s running. PLA is supposedly non toxic but there’s still tiny particles you don’t want hanging out in your lungs.
Working on one. Building it piece by piece. More knowledge I get on this, the better...thanks!
The four Diode's in that config are called a bridge rectifier and you can buy them in any electronics store basically converting AC to DC power.
Rather Than use a heat gun, why don't you use and old small space heater or a toaster. Both of them have a more robust heater element and a thermostat ?
Well done, great share - I did not know about the stratasys patents. It was apparent the printers have to be enclosed. I ran into so many problems with a Makerbot Replicator + warping. When I passively enclosed the printer, the Makerbot extruders botched up - they couldn't handle even 45'ish degrees.
Drafts and temp are my mantra about the Makerbot printers.
The blades are for a slitting saw on a mill (or drill press in your video) - definitely not for a hand tool. So good you used them the right way.
I built 2 chambers out of simple 1" foam insulation boards from Home Depot. Cost almost nothing and took an hour max. Works great and simply retains the heat from the hot end and bed temps. PC and Nylon do not warp or crack.
This, is what I was thinking watching. The chamber, in and of itself if built properly, prevents drafts and crazy temp fluctuations. How necessary is it to heat the chamber to 100c? Also, how does all the printer components hold up to this long term? I'd think that would shorten the life of many components significantly considering most rep/rap printers are not built with this as part of the original design?
@@TheJacklwilliams should probably design the printer so electronica and stepper motors are cooled or put outside of the Chamber, maybe by longer rods.
@@AndersJackson Yea up to about 80C the magnets in the stepper motors are going to lose strength. That's temp of the stepper motor not the air around it. At 100C the motors must be getting above that by a good 30-35C and will shorten their lifespan by ALOT.
You’re going to shoot your eye out kid!
Home Depot sells reflective thin foil ‘insulation’ you can coat the insides of the chamber with - my whambam enclosure comes with something similar and works great.
I was thinking reflectix
Literally just finished building one, I used foam core board for structure, and spray glue and “heavy duty” tinfoil to reflect the heat. Could also apply the tin foil to wood, or pink foam insulation etc.
I couldn't help visualising the curtain going up in flames. But good one for giving it a red hot go.
It might be a good idea to line the inside with thin sheets of firecode rated drywall or at least aluminum foil.
An important subject.
With all the months of hard work Matt's put into this project, I consider this month's $5 well spent. 😊
instead of using the heater options you mentioned...... would a simple infrared lamp be a possibility? no need for air circulation since the light projects it's heat right onto the build.
The idea of using a lamp that may be directed just on the print and not on the printer sound interesting.
The velcro on the panel is a cracking idea
"Why doesn't anyone use double windows in their enclosure?" question answered: cause it's a pain in the ass :))
Not to mention the real reason no one has mass produced 'budget' 3d printers with heated enclosures. Stratasys had a patent on it. Which thankfully expired at the end of last year. So now expect to start seeing them at some point.
@@PRiMETECHAU you can print ABS on a not heaten enclosure (or even without enclosure, as long as you dont move air near the bed), but it will have better accuracy on a heated enclosure since the piece will shrink more evenly after the print if the entirety of the piece is at the same temperature, not only the bottom.
Not to mention if you are going to all the effort for double pains for improved insulating value(heat retention), then you want it sealed with an inert gas in between to reduce the heat transfer through the glass because glass has jack for any R value. Enclosure good idea, method of execution was piss poor and lacks knowledge or understanding of things actually work and the effort. And a heat gun? Seriously? Safer to use a 500watt baseboard heater or a million other better methods. And you're aiming for way over 50C? Are you hoping to boil water?
I'm running a triple window, it wasn't hard at all, although the gap is only air, there's no vacuum.
I wonder how robust this is to thermal cycling issues... I'd be worried that some components in the heat gun would self destruct after prolonged low duty-cycle operation.
Never place your body between the table saw's blade and fence. Stand to the left. Kickback's a bitch.
Or pass your entire arm across and over the blade while also leaning forward., 10:00 gave me a heart attack.lol
Both correct, but hes got the blade pretty high, so chance of kickback is pretty slim
I have a buddy that luckily got to keep his finger because I set the blade to the correct height of the material. He wasn't paying attention and had his thumb on the material and butterflied his thumb open. If the blade was higher he would be a digit short.
Since going to a temperature controlled chamber in a humidity controlled room (dehumidifier) my prints are more repeatable. There are some nice inexpensive Digital Temperature Controller available on Amazon and other places. I just use an old incandescent light bulb for heat. A cardboard box with plexi glass windows makes a great enclosure. Foil lining can help, but cardboard works fine for these low temperatures 100C and below. Step motors are rated to work at or below 50C, so keep that in mind.
This video was great, like night and day compared to some of the other more ranty ones. Just built a heated chamber myself. I think you’re right about adding more part cooling fans. The ambient is low enough that the PC is in glass state, but the layers aren’t equalizing fast enough. Other solution is to set a higher minimum layer time, so printer goes slower, or does a pause between layers to allow previous layer to reach glass state.
I'm a little disappointed as a woodworker you couldn't figure out how to use the PC panels. Use a router to make a slot, install a pane, then make a 1/4" spacer, install the next pane, then add the final spacer. The final side would be inside. I'm not sure it wouldn't help you all that much. It will increase the U value a bit but not as much as argon filled double pane.
Please line that box with a fire resistant coating. Wood can ignite at around 450 F. You know what in your design puts out that temperature? The heat gun. The low setting is roughly 500F. I think you were right on with those heater cores you have or something similar. It would more gradually heat the box, you might be introducing temperature variants with a strong heat source and fan.
For cooling, you could use a pipe with outside air. If you kept the stream low enough it wouldn't significantly affect heat loss and give you proper cooling. It would affect efficientcy of the system of course. It would be more difficult to implement but could try a thermoelectric cooler. If the cooling fan blew from the cold side you'd get spot cooling but wouldn't lose any system efficiency. It would actually act as a small heater overall with 100% efficiency.
"There isn't a slurry for polycarbonate" - ABS alloys strongly with polycarbonate and you can use ABS slurry for polycarbonate prints. I've personally used this for printing pc with a mostly-open printer. A chamber does really help and makes that less necessary though.
Thank you for the correction! I was unaware of this.
Heated chambers do help quite a bit on PC. With my Liquid cooled Ender 3 in its heated enclosure PC, Nylon, ABS, all print on plain glass with no warping issues regardless of complexity or size of the part with no raft or brim.
If you design a product and have it made in China you will be creating your own low price competition within 6 months
Weird that you would question why people didn't think of double paining. I thought about doing that with wood and foam
McMaster lists ridged fiberglass insulation panels that are foil faced. This material as the internal surface would add quite a bit. Also, you can heat with lamps and it's quite effective. The added bonus of the intense red light escaping through the window will keep you on your toes wondering with each glance if this is the time it really is on fire.
This is a fire hazard waiting to happen
I don't know how much double glazing costs in the US, but in the UK I was able to replace similarly sized windows in my shed for £30 each - 6mm glass + argon filled.
A good trick is also to get in contact with double glazing suppliers and see if they have any orders that were cancelled. You can get insanely low priced double glazed units as well as the window and door frames.
Once they're made to a custom size and the job is cancelled, they're practically worthless
You could also add silica beads to keep the chamber dry since wood will retain moisture.
I'm no expert but I've been looking at various videos about enclosures, and it seems while people get away with making air tight builds, I might try just making an enclosure just to prevent drafts and box in the heat but I don't want to let the heat build up considering alot of 3d printers as I understand have 3d printed parts inside and it's generally not good for the electronics, basically you just want the prints to retain as much heat but not the machine, I'm glad the psu seems like it was out I just jumped around the video as I'm idea shopping but I thought I'd leave some tidbits of info I picked up, and I might make a video later if my idea works out well or not.
we should see quite a few heated enclosed 3d printers here at the end of February thats when stratasys patents run out
It's March now and I'm still waiting. Or maybe I'm just bad at googling.Maybe I should just start printing in my shed. Easily gets 40C-45C there on most days. I'm from the tropics obviously.
I think the reason people always think about 2020 extrusions is because they don't have a table saw or a place to put it, duh!
You can make something out of 2020 extrusions by ordering them already cut to necessary length, attaching them together with simple corner brackets and attaching anything to the extrusions by printing holders and screwing them into the slots with T nuts! It's the most accessible material for people without space and huge tools. As well as being, you know, rust-proof and non-flammable.
thats basically what i did with mine, except i only used glass windows in the doors an the rest was 5mm thick foam board a layer on the outside an a layer on the inside, i had first planed just to do the layer on the outside an then fill the space inside with sound deadening foam but the single 5mm foam board muffled it enough for my liking so i opted to just use the same on the inside.
Please make it aware that if you fully enclose one of these printers that most their components aren’t rated to handle high temps and will fail dramatically in 100c.
Stratasys uses water cooling for the motors. I built an enclosure and mounted the PS, motherboard and display underneath.
it is true, stratasys is not going to sue the pariah of 3D printing with a single patent :) I hope better days for you soon
Have you checked that cables are ok for high temperature? Normal cables is ok up to 85° and might fail after longer use in that chamber and that can be a bad experience.
Use an old server / network cabinet. Nice and solid, can even put the printer on pullout rails
For the heater use an external temp controler the ITC-1000 works well
I have been using wood enclosure (6mm thick) over 1 year with active carbon flexible heater at 100 degrees, the heater glued to the back wood panel and I can say that. ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO CATCH FIRE WOOD AT 100 DEGREES CELSİUS. What I personally tested after saw this video is I just touched my soldering iron firstly at 250°C to the enclosure about 30 seconds, gess it? Nothing happened just a color change to yellow from white. After that I just placed the iron as a way that iron will always touch to the wood. After couple of hours later, what happened? Nothing! Just a color changing again yellow from white. White because my enclosure painted one layer white to look better. Not a fire resistant paint, cheapest paint I used. Additionally when printing ABS the enclosure temperature hits max around 60°C. That doesnt mean wood hit 60 degree just the air inside of chamber, wood usually remains maximum of 40-45 degree. While the room temperature 30°C Because wood actually is a bad isolation if its not thick enough. As my senecio its 6mm so all the heat goes away easily. Even though its enough to print ABS perfectly, Note that if you live hot area or country and if your machine not designed to work high temperature( if has pla printed parts, don't use enclosure. I build my CoreXY printer and I design it to work hot, doesn't has any printed parts, all parts aluminium. Motors are outside of the chamber. Direct extruder has water cooling exc. Think first if your printer survive at 60 degree place before thinking if wood catch fire exc.
Hey I know this video is 10 months old, but I’m just getting to it. The part cooling. What if you used some CPAP hose, and connected one end to the cooling fan intake and had the other end out side the insulated chamber? This way you can get part cooling at a much faster rate. Granted you would be introducing a stream of cooling air into your chamber, making your secondary chamber heater have to work that much more....blah blah....ok never mind!
😉👍
:)
A variac on the heat gun would be even more stable than pwm.
Probably a slightly lower fire risk too
We used that cheap hurricane glad at work.
actually what i been looking for no one on youtube is doing this. I would love to see if you could print PEEK or most likely PEKK . ill be following this series closely
I agree. There aren't very many youtubers that are putting PEEK videos. Probably even more helpful that other considering how expensive the stuff is. Knowing how to get successful prints would be helpful.
The thing is your printer should almost all metal, because at 100C most plastic starts deforming under load. No mechanical switch endstop should be used because of thermal expansion.
I agree. Heated chambers require thought to plan. Otherwise you will be fixing as you go.
Bearings need higher temp lubrication, rods/screws/rail may as well need higher temp lube.
I believe typical GT2 belts may have problems as well.
TheeGamefanatic there is GT2 with kevlar as well. Offering better performance than steel core belt and they won’t get fatigued overtime like steel.
That polyurethane foam with foil backing...little chunks of foam are easily broken off. Pretty sure this would inevitably get tiny pieces in your prints or printer. Unless sealing the ends maybe...during construction. The pink panther stuff is alot easier to cut although it doesnt have the foil backing. Ive worked with the pink panther stuff extensively.
At least for my application...thw foil backed stuff was a no go due to the pieces that come off. The environment ive used it for was extremely windy...think 3000 250mm fans as well as a few dozen 4ft diameter 240v fans...moving a lot of heat(it was 110f inside the other day) and not wanting it to circle back into the intake. Pink panther stuff is a dream compared to foil backed...the downside being no foil backing.
Could also make a cnc hot wire foam board cutter but that wouldn't make sense unless multiple use scenario
I really don't know why you've got so many votes down.. I'm usually the first to hit the down button if I don't like something, but you published this so we could learn from your mistakes, and I really appreciate it! I now have a way better understanding of what will and won't work with enclosures, compared to having previously watched videos of people saying what to do without any kind of measure of usefulness and/or reasons for the methods involved in building it.
I usually agree with video ratings on RUclips, but, apparently, people don't know what good information is lately..
I think, based on your results, for now I'm going to wall off the sides of the shelves with my printers, and maybe put a roof over them, just to easily block the main airflow issues, and consider adding some kind of heating to it, too.
Thank man! I know right!
I used an Ikea cupbourd, 27€ including door and hinges, the cupboard is part of the childrens bedroom furniture, 20€, its the same size as the Ikea table or slightly taller. I got the door for 5€ in the damaged section, no damage just a slight scratch on the inside and 2€ for 2 x 120° hinges so the door opens more than normal.
Works great, it heats up in minutes using just the bed heater with the door shut. Be Carefull puting the filament inside, keeps it dry yes but it can go soft and get out of round and cause problems, mine is on top fed through a hole above the extruder and a small cardboard box over the top, it gets some heat from below and the cardboard box absorbs the outside hunidity before it gets to the filament, dry the box out inside when your finished.
You don't need shottky diodes. The point of shottky diodes is they are half the voltage drop of silicon diodes, and they switch much faster. Both great for the low voltage side of a switch mode power supply. 1N4009 diodes work fine for 120V @ 60Hz and are MUCH less expensive.
I'm actually buying a Stratasys Dimension Elite for £102. Was a £35,000 machine when new. Didn't really realise they had the patent to it.
The discs are made for an oscillating tool
“Wood is cheap” he says...
Well, that comment didn’t age well...
HA HA HA!
Stratasys extending that patent is quite sickening to me. Its nothing more then abuse of power and a in your face display of endless greed. This is what happens when corporations take over a country. Patents were used to encourage innovation..now they are killing it!
I've enclosed my delta printer with Perspex and use dichroic 50w downlights to add extra heat to the chamber controller by the duet mainboard. The hotend is water cooled so the cold side stays cold and a berd air tube/pump for part cooling so its not blowing hot air on the part. The extruder stepper inside the enclosure is getting on the hot side for running. 45 degrees in there seems adequate for large ABS parts not to warp.
Great project, and thanks for also sharing your failures as well!
I know you love your Duet, but for this purpose you should really look into Klipper, which allows firmware modification without recompilation because most of it runs on software (using a small board computer like a Pi, or even a PC), this allows super fast tuning of parameters. There is a version of Klipper which includes Duet Web Control, so you can continue to enjoy a world without Octoprint.
For my heated chamber I used an SSR and hair dryer, and connected a spare hotend thermistor for temperature sensing. Klipper allows configuration of thermal runaway protection so it is safe as well.
Klipper and reprap firmware are pretty similar from a user perspective, you just have to edit a configuration file and restart, no firmware recompilation. Klipper has the advantage that it can run with most cheap controller boards. Duet3D has fantastic controller boards. You can actually use klipper on the Duet boards.
I think I'd just design an entirely new 3D printer using all metal parts, with the motors and electronics well-separated. You'll need high heat lubrication for extended use at 100C.
Plastic will deform, belts will stretch, everything gets weaker at higher temperatures. Metal parts will change size at different rates.
Most of the Voron and some other XY designs do this already.
I have been using a heated enclosure for quite some time with excellent results. Ii is built out of wood insulated with rockwool and those reflective aluminum sheets you normally use behind radiators, with a transparent front door held in place by magnets. For peace of mind I watercooled everything, hotends (chimera) and steppers using small water blocks from Aliexpress. They stay cool to the touch even printing at 80c for hours and you never get jams or other issues. Also replaced all the wheels with polycarbonate ones. The heating element is a wall mounted space heater sawed in half: the motor stays out of the box while the heating element and squirrel fan stay inside, and it is controlled by the firmware via a solid state relay. Pretty much silent and you get a very stable flow of hot air with the option of using only half of the element up to around 70c.
I ran into the same issues with bltouch, it goes blinking red after a while so you have to do the homing before activating the heater and you have to wait for it to cool down between prints.
You are right in that this is the single best improvement one can make on a 3d printer, not only for polycarbonate but also stuff like polypropylene which prints beautifully at 50c without warping.
Ah and give klipper a try, you may be in for a pleasant surprise!
Hi, Would you mind sending the link of the watercooled block you got from Aliexpress ? I am having hard time to find them
@@vdiallonort same here
Or you buy a qidi max-3 and start printing high temperature filament with a heated chamber right out of the box. Its available now.
would keep the glass for front and top, do the rest in gypsum board
The choice of magnets has a big effect. Alnico magnets will handle the temperature the best 550C no problem Neodymium die about 100C but can get to 200C for the best material. Ferrite ceramic 350C ( I bonded 24 1" diam x1/8" to my Tornado bed and use steel work plate run at 110C with a 10C drop to the plate without a box heater. ) samarium cobalt 250 top end 350C
You really overthought your problem. You should have cut the slots for the PC just a touch wider to allow for sliding the thin pieces in. Then went back and sealed your gaps with clear silicone. Granted you'd only get a seal on one side of one of the pieces, but you'd get a seal on both sides of the inner wall, and the outside of the outside wall. It's a good build otherwise, but you could improve it easily.
I love the idea of a heated chamber. What had you settle on 100 degrees Celsius? Why not 50 or 75 or 90? Maybe you could do some test pieces at those temps and stress test them to see which is better.
I rebuilt my geeetech i3 into a server cabinent on caster wheels, lined with flame retardant sound deadening. Had to brace the acrylic frame to avoid the frame warping in the heat. But it was super cost effective and cost me ~$150AUD total. 1/10 I have an ABS print lift, but im pretty happy with it.
btw props for keeping it metric!
those are slitting saws for use in a mill
BUY a $75 3x3 Hydroponic Grow Tent.. You can even use heat controllers on fans to ventilate and keep the enclosure the right temperature. Just use a basic temp controller for hydroponic grow tents or heat mats.. You can also just use a chepo temperature controller module.
If you have a printer where the electronics are in the base, it makes sense to seal your box to the top of this, the cooling fans will then keep the inside of the base cool, while letting the chamber be hotter.
Finally the main stream learning how amazing PC is - thanks!. Fully worth the effort. Been printing drones in PC for some time:
rotorbuilds.com/profile/9617
FYI: PC-CF is super brittle. Good for stiff hight temp resistant prints, but no good where you want impact resistance.
Love your designs. It's been a while since my last whoop when they first came out. Is there a board, brushless motor and rotor setup you would recommend for an indoor build these days?
Fused deposition modeling. Not filament .
Very cool! My one question. How does the extruder hold up? With a chamber that hot, would the plastic back up and jam?
Heat creep til the filament backs up and jams is probably not much of a issue for The higher grade materials like the nylons this was intended for would be fine. It would need to be much cooler then 100c for plas etc. But if the filament did jam. I would dial the nozzle temp down some and if still double check the retraction settings. If the print is retracting too often too much it'll pull the hot filament up too high and cause creep and jam.
The only thing to concern is the lifetime of this ender. I've been planning on doing this with a modified version of the voron project, but no time and no money....
I really think nobody reads patents. the patent is not about the heated chamber, but about having the motion components external to it. So that they last longer. The way you built the heated chamber is not covered by the patent. READ THE PATENT CLAIMS!!!
Thanks for the info. I was maybe sometime to build something like this myself. For home use it would not be a practical problem, but what if I want to use the printer in some commercial use case? But I'll just place the steppers inside the chamber, way easier and they are cheap to replace.
Great video, really apriciated it.
I do have a question concerning lifespan of the printer, would it be worth it actively cooling stepper motors, and the hotend with a water cooled system?
Wouldn't heat creep be an issue at those temperatures?
Thanks a lot!
Yep. Water cooling is the way to go. But I think that the best would be for him to use the other printer he showed.
But the reason why he didn't try that one is because it is harder to enclose with his expectations. But after this video the expected quality is questionable. :(
I put together a liquid cooling loop for my Ender 3 for my heated enclosure and its been working well for quite some time.
@@V8in240sx Actively heated? Up to what temp are you working?
Christophe Kafrouni Yes active heat, cooling, and air filtration depending on what material I’m using. Right now I’m capped at 100*c enclosure, 340*c hotend, and 115*c bed. End plan is a couple of upgrades to get me in the Ultem 1010 required range.
For the part cooling issue, why not use a high speed stream of air in a venturi which drops the temperature through the PV=nRT effect? Start with ambient temp, drop pressure to drop temp, and return to ambient, thereby keeping the whole thing adiabatic.
I wonder whether a peltier cooler could work... No net change of heat in the chamber but cools the air on one side for the part cooling fan
I wonder if you would not be better off using a sheet of aluminum with a bed heater (120v). Attach that to a side or back wall(spaced well off the wall). A fan (or number of fans) running air over the aluminum plate could be added to make the heat in the chamber more uniform.
Way too many ads, including the doctor 1 that is 51 minutes (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) long. I support getting revenue from your channel, but not an ad every couple of moments.
I found the advertisements preferable to his decision to waste our time with video intro and transitions.
8:22 yep happened to me luckily it was just a light touch but it was bloody
Why not just build a really well insulated closet- say 6 feet by 4 feet and throw a space heater in it? This would support multiple printers
"Don't use it as a hair dryer, you'd light your skin on fire" Nice rhymes
Easy, the trashbags in the USPO are pay to play. I watched them reject my patent application then turn right around and sell it to a large corporation who thusly ripped me off. Part of the SWAMP that needs draining.
While I am as angry as you are with Stratasys being able to extend their patent beyond 20 years, I disagree with your assertion of the USPTO. My experience with that governmental organization has been nothing but positive. They have an impossibly hard job to do, and they really are trying to protect the entrepreneurial inventor. It's not their faul that the vultures and crooks in big business have gamed the system. The patent office was set up with the best intentions, and the spirit is as valid today as the day it was created.
Dis agree if you like, pal, but I LIVED IT. YOU WERE NOT THERE.
Those are slitting saw blades intended to be used just as you did, but in a milling machine
I even have warping with pla which I mainly print. But sadly I'll get heat creep. Thought about building an enclosure with the top open.. but idk I usually decide against it and try to keep the drafts out of the room. (but no avail lol)
A sealed chamber (cheap build) is enough to print ABS with my Prusa i3 mk3s without problems.
One of my current projects is making a heated chamber for my Tronxy X5SA Pro CoreXY printer. I use the 2020/2040 profiles of the printer to attach isolation material. The X/Y motors can be left outside the chamber and keep cool. Marlin on the SKR 1.4 board supports heating chambers so I don't need a Duet. :)
The problem with such design is that the electronics will be fried when the whole printer is placed in it (usually 60-80 C is the upper temp limits for chips to operate to intended lifespan). You could have built the chamber right above the build plate (as hot air rises) and set the bed temp to 100C to heat up just that portion. I wish you'd done that here.
The electronics are in the green box under the printer. The only electronics inside the chamber are the stepper motors.
For each 10 C you reduce the life expectancy of your electronic by 50% !
An easier way of making double-glazing is to make a rebate around the inside of the frame, put the first pane in it then put a thin strip of wood/plastic all round the edge then put the 2nd pane on top of that followed by another thin strip to fix/ seal it all together.
rebate, also known as rabbet, for those wanting to look up this woodworking technique.
Couldn't you use IR lamps to heat the print area only?
NASA did
Why not make the slot bigger and use silicone caulk?
You can buy a cheap little tent for growing in doors and put your 3d printer inside, put a small extraction fan in the tent n vent the horrid plastic air outside. Simple n easy
Do check the ratings on your electronics. Motors tend to overheat and shut down. This is why beds are heated, not chambers for the cheaper printers.
Humm. My attic hits 140F (~60C), and no breezes. I think I may actually throw my Kossel up there and print some ABS...
I'm struck the youtube algo popped this back up on my page... I'm also struck that you, the creator, haven't responded to everyone's concerns? Or updated how this enclosure, etc... has progressed?
Alloy led extrusions and the greenhouses polycarbonate with the uv and heat blockout fabric is perfect for one of these! They make slip covers from it in different sizes now i got 4 the other day to tryout and have a massive sheet for the window to cut to squares to stick to the polycarbonate black outside and silver inside my lizard heat mat heats my resin vat up perfectly for printing not sure if itll fit under the ender 3 bed the larger one is adjustable heat controlled and as thin as paper its just coils laminated to fit in a lizard take for tropical heat I'll put this to the test something more lightweight and practical is needed, the pigeon box looks abit nasty for in your home
Double pane windows help mostly due to the fact that glass is a good thermal conductor, but plexiglass and most plastics arent. But it would still improve efficiency though... but to most people the extra cost and complexity isnt justified for something they may not use all the time.
Did you swap out all the wirings to ones with for high temperature application?