@@isaacsitiakalaabwenje we’re in South Africa and we installed our Allen & Heath SQ6 this week. It’s better than anything you can find in the same price range. We paid ZAR99,500 for the desk + 24 channel digital snake. It’s the best investment we’ve made in the church so far.
I’ve seen a lot of comments on stewardship and I want to give a different perspective. Stewardship is also making sure that in addition to stretching your dollar, you’re smart with it and strongly consider future proofing. For example if your church is using an X32 to it’s max and you’re at the point that you have to plug out things to use other things, you might very well already be around 40 inputs. In that case moving to 48 inputs might seem right from a budgetary POV but you could be putting yourself in a situation where you’ll need to upgrade in 2 years. Whereas if you went to something with 64 inputs, you could be good for another decade+. The Avantis is hard to beat, if you can stretch a little more. It’s a great input sweet spot that leaves plenty of room to grow. Plus two I/O slots which gives you the option to do use Waves, Dante, Madi, Giga Ace, etc, either now or down the line. Hard to put a price on having options with how fast tech moves.
Weve been running a Wing at our church for over a year now and we love it! We have the Dante expansion card and it works great! Im looking forward to integrating the Waves super rack into it as well. No complaints with our Wing here.
Really helpful video, thanks. But one point that's not been mentioned is the cost of the ecosystem. Wing and SQ5 are about the same price for the console itself, but the stage boxes, personal mixers, etc. are hugely different; eg the A&H personal mixer being more than twice the cost of the Behringer P16! For a band of 5 or 6 members, that can end up being more than you paid for the original console. In a church context, we need to be good stewards of the money we're spending, which in most cases is donations from folks looking to expand God's kingdom. So my advice is to cost out the entire ecosystem; NOT just the console. Being in the UK, I should be promoting Allen&Heath, but I simply can't justify them on cost.
Du brauchst ja nicht die ME 1 Mixer sofort. Kannst Stereo Aux nehmen und Tabletts, sowie ein Mikrofonverstärker wie Fischer Amps. Gibt es glaube ich auch als Mehrkanal. Mixing Station App gibt es für Window, iOS und Android. Im Gegensatz zur Hersteller App, die es mal nur für IOS gab. Aber langfristig lohnen sich die ME1 schon. Gibt jetzt auch die IpMixer. Kosten aber über das doppelte der ME1. Kann nur sagen die ME 1 bewähren sich langfristig. Wir haben auch die App Lösung in der Gemeinde. Kannst auch Avion nehmen. Habe da aber keine so guten Feedbacks.
I think Roland helped Pioneer the stage box (digital snake), and networked personal monitors... and PreSonus helped get digital boards out to many churches. Awesome technology! Our old analog board is super dirty...even after cleaning. I wonder about board maintenance on the digitals? Great videos as always :)
I’ll put in my two cents here as well… we upgraded from the X32 to the Wing and have loved it so far (had it for about a year now). Stereo channels/ busses are a major upgrade and the flexibility in the routing is really nice. Super cool to only use 1 buss for a stereo IEM mix. I will say that historically many Wing users have had complaints about the Show Control/scenes/snapshots and the clunkiness thereof. However the latest firmware update corrects a lot of that and music tribe/Behringer are promising an even better FW update in the “near future.” I’ll also mention that the price tag of the overall eco systems between Behringer VS A&H need to be considered. Once you go A&H you are stuck paying a higher price for the stage boxes, monitoring systems, etc. I believe you have to pay for ‘premium effects’ on the console too (thought I heard that somewhere)? Not saying that’s a deal breaker but something to be considered for churches with a budget. All in all, both are great consoles.
Nice video. I use an SQ and it is great and has the advantage of very low learning curve for volunteers/guest mix engineers. I agree that it is much better stewardship to go with the Wing if you already have x32/m32 equipment. Even if you can perceive a "better" sound with the SQ 99% of the congregation won't so save the money 🙂
While you talked about the “classic mixing experience” on the SQ I think you missed an opportunity to talk about the ability for customization on the SQ series. With the multiple layers on the SQ you can arrange the fader layout on each of the layers including having channels, DCAs, mix buses, AUXs, and FX in any layout you want. Also you get a varying number of soft keys and rotaries/knobs that you can customize for a litany of functions including mute groups, controlling FX parameters, recording, or other options. We switched to an SQ7 at FOH in early 2020 from the x32 and added an SQ5 on stage for IEMs console. As a volunteer sound engineer as well as helping out our Tech/Production director throughout the week as needed it didn’t take long for our group to get a handle on the SQ from the x32. Also our vocalist and band love having the SQ4You app to adjust and dial in their own in-ear mixes. For the ease of use and the quality of sound you will not go wrong in purchasing an SQ series mixer. The only complaint I have with the SQ7 is with all the empty space on the console as opposed to the SQ5 or SQ6 I wish Allen & Heath would have either put a larger or a second touchscreen on the console. However having the ability to use a tablet or a phone to supplement the screen on the console mitigates some of that complaint.
It is worth mentioning that PreSonus consoles are very, very good for teaching. Their Capture software makes virtual soundcheck incredibly easy. The A/B functionality is great to help newbies hear EQ and compression clearly.
We were one of the early adopters of the Wing and had the ghost muting issue. It took over 4 months to get it back. While waiting we bought a M32R and after the Wing returned we sold it. It feels cheap, sounds cheap and just has to many bugs. Fast forward to two years later and a different church we upgraded from a X32 to a SQ6 and it is great. Very pro style console. A little limited but overall great. I wish there was a Mono/C channel for subs instead of using a bus send and I’m curious about it integrating with Superrack Performer but overall a much better console than the Wing. I usually steer people away from the Wing when we do installs.
The only quality control issues we have had with our sq series have been the fine control encoder knob has gone bad on two of three consoles that we purchased. Unfortunately there is no certified repair technicians in our area so the downtime would be too long to send it off have repaired and then sent back. Otherwise they have been super reliable and great sounding consoles
The SQ just doesn't have the same capabilities of the Wing. I know the Wing isn't built as solid but the capabilities are phenomenal at it's price point.
I have just started volunteering on sound at the church I am at after several years off. I have come from a very traditional 1 or 2 guitars, keys and 1 or 2 vocalists, maybe percussion if there is one there that week a lav and maybe 1 other radio mic that’s passed around and a Pc/Mac input On various analog consoles and extremely under powered speakers/amps. To now using a Yamaha cl5 which is an old festival rig which was donated(it has some quirks) Wow what a learning curve that was ! We also have a tf1 for our youth hall and I have mixed worship for them as well, I quite like the tf1 and would love to drive some other consoles one day!
Just touched an Avantis for the first time recently. It’s phenomenal! Big deal considering I don’t care for the layout of the SQ. No one makes this comparison, likely because of the huge price difference, but the Wing appears to have a very similar workflow to the Avantis which gives it the edge over the lower priced mixer range imo. I wouldn’t recommend it for someone’s first transition from Analog, but it can be setup to be about as simple as the X32/M32
We’ve been running an Avantis at church for 2 years now and I love it. I’d originally looked at the Wing because I like the workflow, but the Avantis has that flexibility but A&H quality. I can run 50 inputs with multiple DCAs in any order I want for a service then 1/2 hour later drag 3 mics, stereo Blutooth and a RUclips input on to 5 faders that means our events manager is all set for a conference the next day without having to panic about which layer she needs to be on.
@@djc5463 it’s that flexibility that I’m in love with! It’s just hard to get a church to drop $15,000 on a mixer. I was surprised the church I was consulting at had one. I didn’t wanna leave it! 😂
In my church, in Brazil, we bought an M7CL v3, which was (and is) a wonderful mixer!!! 13 years later, its motherboard burned out, and we rented an SQ5 for temporary use. Although it is inferior to a DiGiCo S21, it is very good. However, the mids, the highs, the headroom of that Yamaha are AMAZING, and consequently no AH or Behringer can match them. But today I would recommend an AH CQ, and DiGico S21, S31, SD9, SD12 and quantum 225 for churchs today. The S21 is the only mixer (in my opinion) that can be better than M7CL...
As someone who's never really tried/given the WING a chance: could you go more into detail about what makes the mixing experience on the wing drastically different to any other console?
I think the biggest difference is the ability to completely customize the slider layout. no more skipping back and forth through the levels while you are trying to live mix. you can move whatever you want wherever you want. Routing is also much simpler
@@Jason_Robinson_Music YES! Everything being stereo is such a huge deal for us. We gained back a bunch of usable channels from this alone. Also, using a nice touchscreen to do fine adjustments feels like a game changer at this price point. I regularly mix on 3 different Wing consoles, and have found their UI to be quite intuitive once you use it for a short time.
@@aeiplanner Yes latency is an issue with hosting plugins on a computer natively. There are programs though like Live Professor that do it with lower latency, but it still depends on buffer rate and how much latency each plugin introduces. I’ve done it before and it’s pretty seamless, it can just get overwhelming; that’s why the Waves Soundgrid is nice to have!
Picked up an M32 last year to replace a failing console and couldn't be more happy with it. It's a well known console, there is tons of support for it and it has a volunteer friendly workflow. It's also highly customizable - after getting burned by an SI impact at a former church that couldn't even do something as simple as save/recall individual channel strips, I learned the hard way to not take ANY features for granted on any of these consoles. Also the M32 was a good $1K cheaper than the wing, especially if you don't need stage boxes. If you are on a shoestring budget the X32/M32 is still almost impossible to beat.
I really want to get the midas m32r live but the problem is that I have learned two things. There is no support apparently if something happens and they have internal power issues. Don't want to setup a new system from analog just for it to fail.
@@lovefirst6157 what are you talking about? I've never seen Behringer or Midas be anything but supportive. And what kind of internal power issues do you think these boards are going to have at this point? It's a very mature and stable platform - the bugs have long since been worked out.
@@DocNo27 I understand that but this is for my church not for me. It is already hard convincing them to upgrade from analog since they think everything is working fine. I don’t want a system that in case something happened, I could not get any support. I would be buying it from Sweetwater. Even though Allen and Heath is expensive, I have heard good things about their customer service.
@@lovefirst6157 I still don't understand why you think you won't be able to get support when Behringer/Midas has an excellent support record with these consoles. Whoever is telling you that is either grossly biased or mistaken. They have sold literally hundreds of thousands of these consoles - it's the must successful digital mixing platform of all time; it isn't even close. There are entire communities around these consoles - documentation, how to videos on RUclips and because the consoles are open there are a plethora of add on utilities and integrations with them that make them incredibly powerful if you really want to geek out. Allen and Heath do make good consoles, but if you are making your decision solely around support concerns, you are going to spend a bunch of extra money unnecessarily. I'm not just idly pontificating about this either. I donated the M32 to my church - I paid for it. I wouldn't have bought it if I had such concerns. I've been following the X32 since before it was launched and the M32 wasn't even hinted at - Behringer had a few teething pains initially; but who doesn't. I understand 10 years ago people's skepticism about Behringer based on their reputation up until then, but they bought Midas. More importantly, they listened to the experienced Midas engineers and actually halted the development of the X32 production line and retooled it based on input from the Midas engineers. A lot of people have had to eat crow over the years about the X32/M32 because it was NOT the disaster they were all sure it was going to be. If you are buying from sweetwater talk to your rep. Ask them about M32 repair process. I'm genuinely curious to see what they are telling people these days. Then again they get a percentage of the sale and the more expensive.... not that I have ever had them do anything like that; just something to always keep in mind with anyone, though.
@@lovefirst6157 Your not going to pay more for just the console either, the whole ecosystem for A&H costs more too - read more comments in this video's comment section. And once again, there are far more tutorials, documentation, support communities around the X32/M32 platform than any other boards out there. It isn't even close. That was the extremely rude wake up call with my old church and the SI impact they got convinced to buy. There were very little third party discussions around it, turns out the guy that sold it to them wasn't any more familiar with it than the X32/M32, and as a digital board it's features - quite frankly - stank. And that's before Samsung bought Soundcraft and literally all development of the board stopped. I don't think A&H is going anywhere anytime soon but there are still a lot fewer users of their boards than the X32/M32.
We had a studiolive24 something something. Had sound issues every other week. We got the x32. Has been solid. He have P16 monitors and just got a x32 compact for the youth room. Maybe a few more years we can upgrade to a wing
I have about 15 months experience with an early 2021 vintage Wing. Never any problems with it. Yes, it can be a little confusing at first, especially the routing. But I loved the flexibility. Sadly, I moved on to another church and am currently using an ancient Soundcraft Si Expression 3. Well, at least it's reliable.
Our church has had an Expression 2 for quite a few years now. Do I want a better console? Yeah probably. Does it have many bells and whistles compared to others today? Not really, it’s pretty bland to be honest. Does it break down or is it confusing to use? No, it’s solid as a rock, has never broken down, and a beginner can use it.
We use Yamaha QL5s at our church for FOH and BOH (Broadcast Mix) and they have been rock solid for us. We still use some x32s for our youth room and outdoor services. Lastly an x16air for one of our small gathering rooms. We use Dante for all our audio transport and a Waves set up to provide autotune on Sunday mornings.
@BobJones-bh9qz we have 2 ql5 one for front of house one for broadcast. Both are free from the Dante network but this allows us independent mixed from FOH and BOH.
we are a small to a mid size church and I am a tech team member and with working with the soundcraft si expression 3 ; and either way i would need to get a stagge box with getting the wing sq7 with that being said which would you reccomend and also fader feel, as well scracthy fader flip with layers and far aws pre amps midas pro pre amps vs a&h pre amps
Not a fan of the Behringer stuff. Been burned by that brand too many times over the last few decades. Last x32 that I spec'ed for a customer install ended up having problems making me look bad, so I'm done with that brand permanently. As for the Waves Stuff... This is an "I didn't leave them, they left me" situation. Was already pretty frustrated with the WUP stuff, having bought the same plugins multiple times just for bug fixes and such, but when they pulled the whole subscription only thing, I had enough. They're like a bad relationship in which you take forever to realize how they're mistreating you. Allen and Heath is good stuff. I wouldn't have any complaint about using their stuff again. I loved using their analog stuff back in the day. They weren't the top end for brand names, but they never let me down and always delivered a good result. Right now, we're using a Yamaha TF console. It sounds great (markedly better than the Behringer stuff), is plenty powerful for some advanced mixing techniques that I've acquired over the years, but still can be super simple for volunteers. I can teach a new volunteer how to operate the basics of it in about 10 minutes. It also has Dante connectivity, just like most of the other options in this video.
I loved your presentation about the new digital mixing for churches....... our church need to upgrade from an Analog mixer Behringer x 32 to digital maybe SQ 48 could be a better option for us
We are also looking a upgrading from Analog to Digital, as much as I dislike the idea.. I personally am leaning towards the Studio live system for us. While it is a bigger footprint in the soundbooth, I find it would be beneficial for new and older users coming from Analog.
I know the LV1 may look really really appealing but from personal experience and talking with other people who have toured with it. The LV1 is one of the least reliable consoles. It tends to crash an insane number of times. When it works it works but when it doesn’t it sucks a lot. Probably one of the worst consoles if you want reliability and for volunteers that don’t tour with waves regularly. I would go with the Avantis over the LV1 any day.
We've been happy with an X32 for about 10 years now, but it recently started having issues with some faders, so we are considering upgrading instead of repairing it. The Wing looks very good, but very concerned about the QA stuff.
Between my church and the school I work at, I have 3 different Wing consoles used multiple times a week, with the first one purchased in early 2021. I have had zero issues with all of them. I think they have figured out their early teething issues and so far, all three have been rock solid.
We have a A&H dlive c3500surface with a dm64 mix rack, not sure what the price point is. We have a dlive in the kids basement as well and Backstage for livestreaming we have A&H Qu and another in the family life center. The dlive seems to handle all of our needs. It replaced a Roland board, not sure of the model. We used to have Roland M-88 for our IEMs, now we have MEs.
Ihr könnt euch ein Angebot holen. Denke so ca. 30000€. Verstehe zwar nicht warum ihr 2 dLive habt. Bzw. Den Preis wissen wollt. Kann man doch alles über 1 Pult erschlagen. Hat ja 128 Eingänge. Entweder habt ihr zuviel Geld, bzw. euer Konzept ist nicht stimmig. Gibt auch IP Controller zum Beispiel für den Kinderraum. Mit Dante könnt ihr alles erschlagen und ein dLive als Konferenzpult nutzen. Einziger Nachteil. Das Pult muss immer ein sein. Müsst halt Kanalzonen bilden. Und eventuell Dante Stageboxen Benutzen. Live Streaming geht ja auch gut über DAW. Andere Benutzer Oberflächen gehen auch über Apps oder die Mixing Station Software.
Every church I know that got a presonus ended up ditching it in favor or more reliable set ups. Some went A&H, most went with Midas/behringer (I know mostly small/med church sound guys).
I've been using Presonus since the first one came out like 12 years ago. Upgraded to the 32SC in 2020 and have had zero reliability issues with either in all this time.
Dann hast du ein Problem, nur die neugierig sind und Spaß an der Technik haben bleiben dabei. Nimm Kinder dazu die um dich rumschwirren und Schule diese. Dann fang einfach Analog an. Alles andere ist zu komplex. Bei digital brauchst du mindestens 3 Personen die in der Materie etwas drin sind um den Support dauerhaft zu gewährleisten. Braucht aber seine Zeit. 2-3 Jahre. Kommt auf eure Musikalischen Erwartungen an. Große Band werdet ihr nicht haben. Eventuell kannst du mit 2-3 Standard Presets leben. Dann musstest dir ein sehr einfaches Konzept überlegen und an der Qualität Abstriche machen. Eine Kompromisseinstellung für Sprache, für Gesang, da ein gutes Universalmikro nehmen. Bin zwar kein Freund vom SM 58. Aber das geht immer. Hatte aber schon öfters das Problem zu lösen. Eigentlich Steckdose einschalten und alles funktioniert. Gibt ja auch Idiotensichere Controller von Allen Heath. Musst dir halt ein gutes Konzept überlegen. Habe aber leider festgestellt, dass entsprechende Firmen oft Technik einbauen, welche die Leute dann überfordert. Gut, aber was Hilfsverein, wenn es keiner Bedienen kann.
Working on an SQ5, overall decent experience, biggest annoyance is the routing matrix is really badly designed, compared with how audinate Dante software does it, lots of trying to eyeball your x,y axis lol. Also i hate the idea that they have all these extra add on software plugins for various compressor and eq models. Seems like a really greedy move considering the price and that software costs them virtually nothing after the design phase. It seems that every other board in this range gives you a ton of plugins. The stock digital compressor especially sounds really bad when pushed hard with a very dynamic singer, its night and day between that and running it through Waves RVox or CLA-2A. The control software also has weird descrepancies with things you can only do on the board vs things you can only do in the software. For instance, there is no way on the board to work on or even see an input channel if you dont have a fader assigned for it. So if you take a fader off the board you will still have an input coming in that you can't see, or monitor, or in some cases even find easily. This "ghost" input thing really irritated me, until i found out you could see and work on all inputs in the software, whether they have a fader on the board or not.
Nutze die Hersteller App, alternativ die Mixing Station App für IOS, Android oder Windows, die ist besser. Da kannst du verschiedene Layouts individuell erstellen und hast zur Not auch schnell Zugriff auf deine Blindkanäle. Wertet dein Pult extrem auf.
Finde die A&H Serie vom Konzept am besten an das analoge Layout angepasst. Das einzige was man verstehen muss sind die DCA Ebenen, die es beim Analogen Pulten nicht gibt. Bin von analog auf das GLD umgestiegen. Hatte mir auch die anderen Hersteller wie Yamaha angeschaut. Mein Tipp, vielleicht mal ein SQ leihen und testen. Zum Einstieg die Einführungsvideos auf RUclips anschauen. Ein generelles Layout Konzept erstellen, das sich durchaus an das bestehende Analoge anlehnen lässt. Habe dann ein Admin Layout angelegt. Du kannst Kanalpresets anlegen und diese dann individuell einladen. Dann geht das fix. Wichtig ist dass dann jeder User ein Eigenes Login bekommt, dort kannst du Berechtigungen vergeben. Und man wundert sich nicht, was der Vorgänger fabriziert hat. Da ist jeder User voll verantwortlich. Wenn man dann das Konzept erstellt hat. So nach 3 Monaten kam jeder Nutzer damit selbstständig klar. Hatte das mit dem GLD gemacht. Nur Mut. In Prinzip, wenn du die Kanalpresets gemacht hast, muss der Nutzer, diese nur einladen und hat schon einen guten Sound. Gehe von Bands in wechselnder Besetzung aus. Sonst kannst du auch Scene benutzen. Mit der Mixing Station App kannst du jedes Setup für das Monitoring organisieren. Ist besser als die Hersteller App. mixingstation.app/ In einer anderen Kirchengemeinde haben wir es allerdings mit dem GLD folgendermaßen gemacht, brauchten ein neues Pult: Habe mein Pult ausgeliehen, dann haben wir die Architektur erstellt. Und dann wurden die Leute eingeteilt und beim Soundcheck supportet. Und dann deren Meinung eingeholt. Die sind auch von analog umgestiegen. Dann war das umsteigen problemlos. Und man musste nur die Presets per USB Stick auf das neue gekaufte Pult übertragen. Und Ihr könnt die Windows Version runterladen und euch mit dem SQ vorab vertraut machen. RUclips Video ansehen und auf dem Rechner nachmachen. Kann man auch als Schulung machen. Wenn jeder seinen PC mitbringt. Das Avantis ist für Anfänger zu kompliziert. Und wenn möglich eine Notscene erstellen, auf einen Softkey legen. So für den Notfall. Und 2 Admins sind sinnvoll. Es braucht etwas, bis ihr das Grundpreset angelegt habt, da ihr optimieren werdet.
Man we have presonus studioLive 32 for our church we bought in 2019 , i have the exact same issue you talked about it all the sound goes away for about 2 to 3 seconds in a middle of the worship session 🤯 , i can’t handle presonus anymore I am tired of the studioLive doing that in the middle of service… I was wondering if the new presonus console bought in 2024 has the same issue !! Anybody knows ? Cause im not sure if i should buy new presonus console because i got all AVB’s , switch, etc or if i should get rid of it and jump to another system…
I think new Presonus mixers has very new system, so no previous problems could happens. Also I have read comments that there is no problems with losing sound on new Presonus series.
Our biggest hold up from switching from the Behringer/Midas ecosystem has been our in ear system with the P16s, too many campuses to roll over sadly. Behringer's availability for support and parts has been abysmal unfortunately.
There is the Powerplay P16-I distribution module. Lets you keep all your P16 IEM's but just use the outputs from a stage box or the console so you can choose whatever fits your needs better!
@@AJOrpheo As far as I knew you couldn't throw an Allen & Heath board at the p16s, is that actually possible? Are you talking about routing all the outputs with a stage box 1 to 1?
@@AndrewRaia You are correct. It cannot be digitally connected. The P16-I distribution uses individual TRS connections and then distributes those to your p16's. Obviously not as elegant but still an option if you want to go to SQ.
My Church's SQ7 failed us. First, the screen was "self operating" itself. Secondly, half of the faders failed and stopped responding. We had to switch to Midas M32
it's interesting not a single mention on yamaha console like the entry level TF series or middle entry ql/cl console, my church use yamahal ql5 and it really easy to learn it, it only took me around 1 month to get knowing everything on it.Before i only use analog mixer so basically learn from scrath about digital mixer
TF series is pretty terrible, in my experience. It's good for volunteers until the board glitches and does unexplainable things where the volunteer wouldn't know what to do. I'd stay away, it wouldn't be my first pick, personally.
@@joellouisfire Unfortunately, every brand can have a bad product every now and then. I've had nothing but good luck with the TF series. I've used multiple TF consoles, even owning one personally for a while, as well as installed them for customers before. Never had a single issue and they always did what they should and sounded great doing it.
The TF series is a good console. It's almost 8 years old, so keep that in mind when comparing to the Wing and other newer consoles. The issue is that it's not all that flexible in terms of routing signals. I've never seen a TF glitch or have issues outside of things going bad due to aging. It's not my first choice of console, especially with A&H options out there, but it's still a good console. Since Yamaha took a year off from manufacturing due to component availability, I'm wondering if they'll come out with another console in that range.
@Jeff F yeah, it's possible we have a bad apple. I haven't had very good things to say about the TF 5, but it could very well be our unit. I still feel bugs aside, it's a bit limiting of a console, like it has training wheels on and it's missing certain important features. Something as simple as a DeEsser would've been nice. Also, fader resolution is very low, but idk if that's just our unit. I just think at the price point, there are other consoles to consider. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad console if we had a good unit, but it wouldn't be my first pick atm, in my personal experience.
Try a nice and short plate vocal reverb, with a short decay time, to add some immediate space to the vocal. If you need more in-depth help, check out worshipministryschool.com for our free toolkit and apply for one-on-one coaching and training from our team. Hope this helps! - Dylan
Quick question, I am getting ready to rebuild my churches PA that parts of it date back to the 90's. I will be getting rid of my 16 channel anolog consolo that is dieing. My Sweetwater sales rep is quoting me a Midas M32 as he says a Allen Heath SQ would be overkill for my needs (as of right now, the M32 and SQ5 are the same price). Is the M32 still a good consolo to buy for 2023?
Finde das SQ besser zu handeln als das M32. Vor allem Touch Screen. Und das ist wichtig für das Team. Das X32 habe ich immer noch nich richtig durchschaut, wir haben das in der Kirche. Privat habe ich das Avantis und das GLD. Auch die Mitarbeiter sind mit dem GLD besser als mit dem X32 klargekommen. Die Layout Übersicht ist einfach besser. Das X32 mische ich gerade mehr über die Mixing Station App, weil mich die unfunktionale Oberfläche nervt. Vor allem die festgelegte Layoutstruktur. Kann man mittlerweile über eine separate DCA Gruppe beheben. Das ist den Aufpreis wert.
The Tascam is a very tempting option and has immense potential, but unless its preamps are much better than the SQ's, it is valued at a unjustified price. One may be tempted to favor it over the SQ or a Wing because of its dual/triple display workflow, but here's the bombshell - the touchscreen is resistive (a technology that was prevalent ~15 years ago), not capacitive. This means it doesn't support multi-touch input or gestures, and that's a pretty hard hit next to the seemingly dated, old-school user interface. "Resistive" also means that it's less sensitive, making it much less responsive, and difficult to operate in a live situation. The SQ and Wing both have pristine displays controlled by capacitive touchscreens. Resistive touchscreens are also notoriously unreliable - they break easily and become less responsive after a certain period of heavy use. At that price, seeing a resistive screen in a mixer is pretty much of a shame. Some of you may find it silly, but this is the biggest turnoff for me, that made me exclude it from my wish list. Besides that, I think it's an amazing mixer. I hope they'll include a multiband compressor, a dynamic EQ and a mic auto-mix program in a future update. Still... a resistive panel... damn! What were they thinking?!
Brauchst wohl das Avantis mit Deep Pack? Spender gesucht? Geht schon ins Geld. Bist bei 25000-3000€. Stageboxen, Dante Karte ist wegen Recording ein muss. Habe aber die Vorgängerserie, so dass Stageboxen und Dante Karte benutzbar war. Dazu kam Deep Pack und Case. Waren dann 20000€. Die Möglichkeiten sind eine andere Klasse als das SQ.
Save your money until you can get one. There are no pro options that I am aware of under $5k...you are paying for reliability and flexibility. If you ABSOLUTLY HAVE TO ND you don't need a lot of inputs, look at the Allen and Heath CQ- 18t. It's currently $1200 and has a lot of cool stuff built in. If you plan to grow, I would seriously just bite the bullet for a better console. Even an X32 is better than doing this for 3k in my opinion.
The Wing still seems like a beta product even though it's nearly 4 years old. There's no user manual, no native computer software, the Co-Pilot app is very clunky, and layout can be limiting. It has 24 Faders but there's still a bunch of layer jumping, because the breakdown is weird IMO. I like the GUI on the Wing but there is a bit of a learning curve, especially since there's no manual. I think the TF5 is a better overall and more complete product compared to the Wing.
I run the tech at our church. How is the ease of use for novices. I have a teenager who loves to do sound. We are looking to upgrade from the x32 by behringer. Would it be wise to upgrade to the wing, or to get a more modern made x32? Thank you! Yes we have p16s and stage boxes from behringer.
Allen & Heath is hard to beat, their operating system is easy to use and makes sense, and the boards sound great!
Is It Affordable to us in third world countries....?!
@@isaacsitiakalaabwenje we’re in South Africa and we installed our Allen & Heath SQ6 this week. It’s better than anything you can find in the same price range. We paid ZAR99,500 for the desk + 24 channel digital snake. It’s the best investment we’ve made in the church so far.
@@isaacsitiakalaabwenje SQ-5 packs a lot of channels and features into a compact sub $5K mixer
I’ve seen a lot of comments on stewardship and I want to give a different perspective. Stewardship is also making sure that in addition to stretching your dollar, you’re smart with it and strongly consider future proofing. For example if your church is using an X32 to it’s max and you’re at the point that you have to plug out things to use other things, you might very well already be around 40 inputs. In that case moving to 48 inputs might seem right from a budgetary POV but you could be putting yourself in a situation where you’ll need to upgrade in 2 years. Whereas if you went to something with 64 inputs, you could be good for another decade+. The Avantis is hard to beat, if you can stretch a little more. It’s a great input sweet spot that leaves plenty of room to grow. Plus two I/O slots which gives you the option to do use Waves, Dante, Madi, Giga Ace, etc, either now or down the line. Hard to put a price on having options with how fast tech moves.
Finally a slightly unbiased reviewed on digital console from you guys …good job
they do seem a bit behringer biased tbh
@@epicdude999 they do a great job with what they do but yes they are but good job with this one
Weve been running a Wing at our church for over a year now and we love it! We have the Dante expansion card and it works great! Im looking forward to integrating the Waves super rack into it as well. No complaints with our Wing here.
SQ7 is awesome. We’ve had it for over a year now and love it.
We installed our SQ6 this week as an upgrade from our old X32. It was like drinking clean spring water after only being used to stagnant dirty water
Thanks for your information. We are from Nepal. We have learned many ideas from your hard work. Really thank you all.
Really helpful video, thanks. But one point that's not been mentioned is the cost of the ecosystem. Wing and SQ5 are about the same price for the console itself, but the stage boxes, personal mixers, etc. are hugely different; eg the A&H personal mixer being more than twice the cost of the Behringer P16! For a band of 5 or 6 members, that can end up being more than you paid for the original console. In a church context, we need to be good stewards of the money we're spending, which in most cases is donations from folks looking to expand God's kingdom. So my advice is to cost out the entire ecosystem; NOT just the console. Being in the UK, I should be promoting Allen&Heath, but I simply can't justify them on cost.
Du brauchst ja nicht die ME 1 Mixer sofort. Kannst Stereo Aux nehmen und Tabletts, sowie ein Mikrofonverstärker wie Fischer Amps. Gibt es glaube ich auch als Mehrkanal. Mixing Station App gibt es für Window, iOS und Android. Im Gegensatz zur Hersteller App, die es mal nur für IOS gab. Aber langfristig lohnen sich die ME1 schon. Gibt jetzt auch die IpMixer. Kosten aber über das doppelte der ME1. Kann nur sagen die ME 1 bewähren sich langfristig. Wir haben auch die App Lösung in der Gemeinde. Kannst auch Avion nehmen. Habe da aber keine so guten Feedbacks.
I think Roland helped Pioneer the stage box (digital snake), and networked personal monitors... and PreSonus helped get digital boards out to many churches. Awesome technology! Our old analog board is super dirty...even after cleaning. I wonder about board maintenance on the digitals? Great videos as always :)
Love our SQ5 with ME-1 mixers. Those mixers blow the Avioms I was used to away. So good.
I’ll put in my two cents here as well… we upgraded from the X32 to the Wing and have loved it so far (had it for about a year now). Stereo channels/ busses are a major upgrade and the flexibility in the routing is really nice. Super cool to only use 1 buss for a stereo IEM mix.
I will say that historically many Wing users have had complaints about the Show Control/scenes/snapshots and the clunkiness thereof. However the latest firmware update corrects a lot of that and music tribe/Behringer are promising an even better FW update in the “near future.”
I’ll also mention that the price tag of the overall eco systems between Behringer VS A&H need to be considered. Once you go A&H you are stuck paying a higher price for the stage boxes, monitoring systems, etc. I believe you have to pay for ‘premium effects’ on the console too (thought I heard that somewhere)?
Not saying that’s a deal breaker but something to be considered for churches with a budget.
All in all, both are great consoles.
Nice video. I use an SQ and it is great and has the advantage of very low learning curve for volunteers/guest mix engineers. I agree that it is much better stewardship to go with the Wing if you already have x32/m32 equipment. Even if you can perceive a "better" sound with the SQ 99% of the congregation won't so save the money 🙂
While you talked about the “classic mixing experience” on the SQ I think you missed an opportunity to talk about the ability for customization on the SQ series. With the multiple layers on the SQ you can arrange the fader layout on each of the layers including having channels, DCAs, mix buses, AUXs, and FX in any layout you want. Also you get a varying number of soft keys and rotaries/knobs that you can customize for a litany of functions including mute groups, controlling FX parameters, recording, or other options. We switched to an SQ7 at FOH in early 2020 from the x32 and added an SQ5 on stage for IEMs console. As a volunteer sound engineer as well as helping out our Tech/Production director throughout the week as needed it didn’t take long for our group to get a handle on the SQ from the x32. Also our vocalist and band love having the SQ4You app to adjust and dial in their own in-ear mixes. For the ease of use and the quality of sound you will not go wrong in purchasing an SQ series mixer. The only complaint I have with the SQ7 is with all the empty space on the console as opposed to the SQ5 or SQ6 I wish Allen & Heath would have either put a larger or a second touchscreen on the console. However having the ability to use a tablet or a phone to supplement the screen on the console mitigates some of that complaint.
It is worth mentioning that PreSonus consoles are very, very good for teaching. Their Capture software makes virtual soundcheck incredibly easy. The A/B functionality is great to help newbies hear EQ and compression clearly.
Definitely miss the dedicated Capture software and instant board flip button from live to recorded inputs
We were one of the early adopters of the Wing and had the ghost muting issue. It took over 4 months to get it back. While waiting we bought a M32R and after the Wing returned we sold it. It feels cheap, sounds cheap and just has to many bugs. Fast forward to two years later and a different church we upgraded from a X32 to a SQ6 and it is great. Very pro style console. A little limited but overall great. I wish there was a Mono/C channel for subs instead of using a bus send and I’m curious about it integrating with Superrack Performer but overall a much better console than the Wing. I usually steer people away from the Wing when we do installs.
The only quality control issues we have had with our sq series have been the fine control encoder knob has gone bad on two of three consoles that we purchased. Unfortunately there is no certified repair technicians in our area so the downtime would be too long to send it off have repaired and then sent back. Otherwise they have been super reliable and great sounding consoles
The SQ just doesn't have the same capabilities of the Wing. I know the Wing isn't built as solid but the capabilities are phenomenal at it's price point.
The dLive CDM32 with a touchscreen and cheap computer cost around $8000
It is what we are going to do for our church plant.
I have just started volunteering on sound at the church I am at after several years off. I have come from a very traditional 1 or 2 guitars, keys and 1 or 2 vocalists, maybe percussion if there is one there that week a lav and maybe 1 other radio mic that’s passed around and a Pc/Mac input
On various analog consoles and extremely under powered speakers/amps.
To now using a Yamaha cl5 which is an old festival rig which was donated(it has some quirks)
Wow what a learning curve that was !
We also have a tf1 for our youth hall and I have mixed worship for them as well, I quite like the tf1 and would love to drive some other consoles one day!
A few bookmarks for me:
SQ series 4:46
SQ features that Jake likes: 10:12
Allen and Heath Avantis Console 16:47
Yamaha TF5 has been amazing for us !!!
I reckon the Yamaha TF series is going to get more popular
Great video, but why wasn't the Yamaha TF mentioned
Exactly my point!!
Just touched an Avantis for the first time recently. It’s phenomenal! Big deal considering I don’t care for the layout of the SQ. No one makes this comparison, likely because of the huge price difference, but the Wing appears to have a very similar workflow to the Avantis which gives it the edge over the lower priced mixer range imo. I wouldn’t recommend it for someone’s first transition from Analog, but it can be setup to be about as simple as the X32/M32
We’ve been running an Avantis at church for 2 years now and I love it. I’d originally looked at the Wing because I like the workflow, but the Avantis has that flexibility but A&H quality. I can run 50 inputs with multiple DCAs in any order I want for a service then 1/2 hour later drag 3 mics, stereo Blutooth and a RUclips input on to 5 faders that means our events manager is all set for a conference the next day without having to panic about which layer she needs to be on.
@@djc5463 it’s that flexibility that I’m in love with! It’s just hard to get a church to drop $15,000 on a mixer. I was surprised the church I was consulting at had one. I didn’t wanna leave it! 😂
@@djc5463Nur Szenen, kann das das Wing nicht?
I love our WING! It is really versatile and has a great price-performance ratio
In my church, in Brazil, we bought an M7CL v3, which was (and is) a wonderful mixer!!! 13 years later, its motherboard burned out, and we rented an SQ5 for temporary use.
Although it is inferior to a DiGiCo S21, it is very good. However, the mids, the highs, the headroom of that Yamaha are AMAZING, and consequently no AH or Behringer can match them. But today I would recommend an AH CQ, and DiGico S21, S31, SD9, SD12 and quantum 225 for churchs today. The S21 is the only mixer (in my opinion) that can be better than M7CL...
As someone who's never really tried/given the WING a chance: could you go more into detail about what makes the mixing experience on the wing drastically different to any other console?
I think the biggest difference is the ability to completely customize the slider layout. no more skipping back and forth through the levels while you are trying to live mix. you can move whatever you want wherever you want. Routing is also much simpler
Yes to ☝🏼 I would also add that all 48 channels and 16 busses are stereo, which is awesome. Super nice to only use 1 buss send for a stereo IEM mix.
@@Jason_Robinson_Music YES! Everything being stereo is such a huge deal for us. We gained back a bunch of usable channels from this alone. Also, using a nice touchscreen to do fine adjustments feels like a game changer at this price point. I regularly mix on 3 different Wing consoles, and have found their UI to be quite intuitive once you use it for a short time.
Avantis with waves is top tier in my opinion. The UI and layout on the avantis is great and waves soundgrid is only getting better each day.
Why not just have a dedicated Mac Studio and run native plugins? Is latency an issue?
@@aeiplanner Yes latency is an issue with hosting plugins on a computer natively. There are programs though like Live Professor that do it with lower latency, but it still depends on buffer rate and how much latency each plugin introduces. I’ve done it before and it’s pretty seamless, it can just get overwhelming; that’s why the Waves Soundgrid is nice to have!
Picked up an M32 last year to replace a failing console and couldn't be more happy with it. It's a well known console, there is tons of support for it and it has a volunteer friendly workflow. It's also highly customizable - after getting burned by an SI impact at a former church that couldn't even do something as simple as save/recall individual channel strips, I learned the hard way to not take ANY features for granted on any of these consoles. Also the M32 was a good $1K cheaper than the wing, especially if you don't need stage boxes. If you are on a shoestring budget the X32/M32 is still almost impossible to beat.
I really want to get the midas m32r live but the problem is that I have learned two things. There is no support apparently if something happens and they have internal power issues. Don't want to setup a new system from analog just for it to fail.
@@lovefirst6157 what are you talking about? I've never seen Behringer or Midas be anything but supportive. And what kind of internal power issues do you think these boards are going to have at this point? It's a very mature and stable platform - the bugs have long since been worked out.
@@DocNo27 I understand that but this is for my church not for me. It is already hard convincing them to upgrade from analog since they think everything is working fine. I don’t want a system that in case something happened, I could not get any support. I would be buying it from Sweetwater. Even though Allen and Heath is expensive, I have heard good things about their customer service.
@@lovefirst6157 I still don't understand why you think you won't be able to get support when Behringer/Midas has an excellent support record with these consoles. Whoever is telling you that is either grossly biased or mistaken. They have sold literally hundreds of thousands of these consoles - it's the must successful digital mixing platform of all time; it isn't even close. There are entire communities around these consoles - documentation, how to videos on RUclips and because the consoles are open there are a plethora of add on utilities and integrations with them that make them incredibly powerful if you really want to geek out. Allen and Heath do make good consoles, but if you are making your decision solely around support concerns, you are going to spend a bunch of extra money unnecessarily.
I'm not just idly pontificating about this either. I donated the M32 to my church - I paid for it. I wouldn't have bought it if I had such concerns. I've been following the X32 since before it was launched and the M32 wasn't even hinted at - Behringer had a few teething pains initially; but who doesn't. I understand 10 years ago people's skepticism about Behringer based on their reputation up until then, but they bought Midas. More importantly, they listened to the experienced Midas engineers and actually halted the development of the X32 production line and retooled it based on input from the Midas engineers. A lot of people have had to eat crow over the years about the X32/M32 because it was NOT the disaster they were all sure it was going to be.
If you are buying from sweetwater talk to your rep. Ask them about M32 repair process. I'm genuinely curious to see what they are telling people these days. Then again they get a percentage of the sale and the more expensive.... not that I have ever had them do anything like that; just something to always keep in mind with anyone, though.
@@lovefirst6157 Your not going to pay more for just the console either, the whole ecosystem for A&H costs more too - read more comments in this video's comment section.
And once again, there are far more tutorials, documentation, support communities around the X32/M32 platform than any other boards out there. It isn't even close. That was the extremely rude wake up call with my old church and the SI impact they got convinced to buy. There were very little third party discussions around it, turns out the guy that sold it to them wasn't any more familiar with it than the X32/M32, and as a digital board it's features - quite frankly - stank. And that's before Samsung bought Soundcraft and literally all development of the board stopped. I don't think A&H is going anywhere anytime soon but there are still a lot fewer users of their boards than the X32/M32.
We had a studiolive24 something something. Had sound issues every other week. We got the x32. Has been solid. He have P16 monitors and just got a x32 compact for the youth room. Maybe a few more years we can upgrade to a wing
I was mesmerized by the stain glass background.
You were saying? 😁
I have about 15 months experience with an early 2021 vintage Wing. Never any problems with it. Yes, it can be a little confusing at first, especially the routing. But I loved the flexibility. Sadly, I moved on to another church and am currently using an ancient Soundcraft Si Expression 3. Well, at least it's reliable.
Our church has had an Expression 2 for quite a few years now.
Do I want a better console? Yeah probably.
Does it have many bells and whistles compared to others today? Not really, it’s pretty bland to be honest.
Does it break down or is it confusing to use? No, it’s solid as a rock, has never broken down, and a beginner can use it.
The Mackie DL32R is pretty nice for midsize churches. I like the wireless control
We use Yamaha QL5s at our church for FOH and BOH (Broadcast Mix) and they have been rock solid for us. We still use some x32s for our youth room and outdoor services. Lastly an x16air for one of our small gathering rooms. We use Dante for all our audio transport and a Waves set up to provide autotune on Sunday mornings.
why would you put out a false presentation with autotune.
Broadcast of house?
@BobJones-bh9qz we have 2 ql5 one for front of house one for broadcast. Both are free from the Dante network but this allows us independent mixed from FOH and BOH.
That image of the Qauntum 338 got me to click 🙂
That's a new Digico Quantum 852
@@putukasparinata You're right! Looked similar at first glance and I didn't realize they just released that!
However, Im sure it's no match for the Behringer Wing
we are a small to a mid size church and I am a tech team member and with working with the soundcraft si expression 3 ; and either way i would need to get a stagge box with getting the wing sq7 with that being said which would you reccomend and also fader feel, as well scracthy fader flip with layers and far aws pre amps midas pro pre amps vs a&h pre amps
What? No mention of the Yamaha DM series?
I agree about quality control issues with Presonus.
Great video. Do you have any insight on the Yamaha TF mixers?
Not a fan of the Behringer stuff. Been burned by that brand too many times over the last few decades. Last x32 that I spec'ed for a customer install ended up having problems making me look bad, so I'm done with that brand permanently.
As for the Waves Stuff... This is an "I didn't leave them, they left me" situation. Was already pretty frustrated with the WUP stuff, having bought the same plugins multiple times just for bug fixes and such, but when they pulled the whole subscription only thing, I had enough. They're like a bad relationship in which you take forever to realize how they're mistreating you.
Allen and Heath is good stuff. I wouldn't have any complaint about using their stuff again. I loved using their analog stuff back in the day. They weren't the top end for brand names, but they never let me down and always delivered a good result.
Right now, we're using a Yamaha TF console. It sounds great (markedly better than the Behringer stuff), is plenty powerful for some advanced mixing techniques that I've acquired over the years, but still can be super simple for volunteers. I can teach a new volunteer how to operate the basics of it in about 10 minutes. It also has Dante connectivity, just like most of the other options in this video.
I loved your presentation about the new digital mixing for churches....... our church need to upgrade from an Analog mixer Behringer x 32 to digital maybe SQ 48 could be a better option for us
We are also looking a upgrading from Analog to Digital, as much as I dislike the idea.. I personally am leaning towards the Studio live system for us. While it is a bigger footprint in the soundbooth, I find it would be beneficial for new and older users coming from Analog.
Could you please do a review of the Yamaha DM3-D 22 Channel Ultracompact Digital Mixing Console With Dante.
This is like everything in churches/religion. Tons of assertions, few sound arguments :-)
Would love to see a review on the Tascam Sonicview!!!
Why do you need this overpriced "recording studio" with not a lot of accessories and expanses?
I know the LV1 may look really really appealing but from personal experience and talking with other people who have toured with it. The LV1 is one of the least reliable consoles. It tends to crash an insane number of times. When it works it works but when it doesn’t it sucks a lot. Probably one of the worst consoles if you want reliability and for volunteers that don’t tour with waves regularly. I would go with the Avantis over the LV1 any day.
"The BEST console for churches in 2023" except under $7k. Gotta get those clicks.
Also, Ryan, what's your thoughts on integrating titler live into live streaming?
Hey Jake that sounds for the information.
What is that abstract stained glass kind of backdrop?
It's stained glass.
We've been happy with an X32 for about 10 years now, but it recently started having issues with some faders, so we are considering upgrading instead of repairing it. The Wing looks very good, but very concerned about the QA stuff.
Between my church and the school I work at, I have 3 different Wing consoles used multiple times a week, with the first one purchased in early 2021. I have had zero issues with all of them. I think they have figured out their early teething issues and so far, all three have been rock solid.
Check out the Yamaha dm3!
We use Mackie DL32R & DC16
Any update for behringer wing compact version
We have a A&H dlive c3500surface with a dm64 mix rack, not sure what the price point is. We have a dlive in the kids basement as well and Backstage for livestreaming we have A&H Qu and another in the family life center. The dlive seems to handle all of our needs. It replaced a Roland board, not sure of the model. We used to have Roland M-88 for our IEMs, now we have MEs.
Ihr könnt euch ein Angebot holen. Denke so ca. 30000€. Verstehe zwar nicht warum ihr 2 dLive habt. Bzw. Den Preis wissen wollt. Kann man doch alles über 1 Pult erschlagen. Hat ja 128 Eingänge. Entweder habt ihr zuviel Geld, bzw. euer Konzept ist nicht stimmig. Gibt auch IP Controller zum Beispiel für den Kinderraum. Mit Dante könnt ihr alles erschlagen und ein dLive als Konferenzpult nutzen. Einziger Nachteil. Das Pult muss immer ein sein. Müsst halt Kanalzonen bilden. Und eventuell Dante Stageboxen Benutzen. Live Streaming geht ja auch gut über DAW. Andere Benutzer Oberflächen gehen auch über Apps oder die Mixing Station Software.
We have LV1 Extreme v3. And i really looking into build own server based on latest intel beast.
Every church I know that got a presonus ended up ditching it in favor or more reliable set ups. Some went A&H, most went with Midas/behringer (I know mostly small/med church sound guys).
I've been using Presonus since the first one came out like 12 years ago. Upgraded to the 32SC in 2020 and have had zero reliability issues with either in all this time.
We have an older rml32 ai and been using it for like 7 yrs now. It's been great with no issues.
I'm glad yall had good luck with them.
We have a small church, and volunteers who are tech savvy are hard to come by
Dann hast du ein Problem, nur die neugierig sind und Spaß an der Technik haben bleiben dabei. Nimm Kinder dazu die um dich rumschwirren und Schule diese. Dann fang einfach Analog an. Alles andere ist zu komplex. Bei digital brauchst du mindestens 3 Personen die in der Materie etwas drin sind um den Support dauerhaft zu gewährleisten. Braucht aber seine Zeit. 2-3 Jahre. Kommt auf eure Musikalischen Erwartungen an. Große Band werdet ihr nicht haben.
Eventuell kannst du mit 2-3 Standard Presets leben. Dann musstest dir ein sehr einfaches Konzept überlegen und an der Qualität Abstriche machen.
Eine Kompromisseinstellung für Sprache, für Gesang, da ein gutes Universalmikro nehmen. Bin zwar kein Freund vom SM 58. Aber das geht immer.
Hatte aber schon öfters das Problem zu lösen. Eigentlich Steckdose einschalten und alles funktioniert. Gibt ja auch Idiotensichere Controller von Allen Heath.
Musst dir halt ein gutes Konzept überlegen. Habe aber leider festgestellt, dass entsprechende Firmen oft Technik einbauen, welche die Leute dann überfordert. Gut, aber was Hilfsverein, wenn es keiner Bedienen kann.
worship toolkit link seems to be broken
Yamha DM7- series...?
What about the DigicoS21?
What about the Mackie DL16s or DL32s?
Cool ❤video, lost of information 💻
Working on an SQ5, overall decent experience, biggest annoyance is the routing matrix is really badly designed, compared with how audinate Dante software does it, lots of trying to eyeball your x,y axis lol. Also i hate the idea that they have all these extra add on software plugins for various compressor and eq models. Seems like a really greedy move considering the price and that software costs them virtually nothing after the design phase. It seems that every other board in this range gives you a ton of plugins. The stock digital compressor especially sounds really bad when pushed hard with a very dynamic singer, its night and day between that and running it through Waves RVox or CLA-2A. The control software also has weird descrepancies with things you can only do on the board vs things you can only do in the software. For instance, there is no way on the board to work on or even see an input channel if you dont have a fader assigned for it. So if you take a fader off the board you will still have an input coming in that you can't see, or monitor, or in some cases even find easily. This "ghost" input thing really irritated me, until i found out you could see and work on all inputs in the software, whether they have a fader on the board or not.
Nutze die Hersteller App, alternativ die Mixing Station App für IOS, Android oder Windows, die ist besser. Da kannst du verschiedene Layouts individuell erstellen und hast zur Not auch schnell Zugriff auf deine Blindkanäle. Wertet dein Pult extrem auf.
What would you recommend if we are going from analog and our sound team is very beginner and older so tech learning curve is an issue?
Behringer Wing. There are TONs of videos to help you too.
Finde die A&H Serie vom Konzept am besten an das analoge Layout angepasst. Das einzige was man verstehen muss sind die DCA Ebenen, die es beim Analogen Pulten nicht gibt. Bin von analog auf das GLD umgestiegen. Hatte mir auch die anderen Hersteller wie Yamaha angeschaut.
Mein Tipp, vielleicht mal ein SQ leihen und testen. Zum Einstieg die Einführungsvideos auf RUclips anschauen. Ein generelles Layout Konzept erstellen, das sich durchaus an das bestehende Analoge anlehnen lässt. Habe dann ein Admin Layout angelegt. Du kannst Kanalpresets anlegen und diese dann individuell einladen. Dann geht das fix. Wichtig ist dass dann jeder User ein Eigenes Login bekommt, dort kannst du Berechtigungen vergeben. Und man wundert sich nicht, was der Vorgänger fabriziert hat. Da ist jeder User voll verantwortlich. Wenn man dann das Konzept erstellt hat. So nach 3 Monaten kam jeder Nutzer damit selbstständig klar. Hatte das mit dem GLD gemacht.
Nur Mut. In Prinzip, wenn du die Kanalpresets gemacht hast, muss der Nutzer, diese nur einladen und hat schon einen guten Sound. Gehe von Bands in wechselnder Besetzung aus. Sonst kannst du auch Scene benutzen.
Mit der Mixing Station App kannst du jedes Setup für das Monitoring organisieren.
Ist besser als die Hersteller App.
mixingstation.app/
In einer anderen Kirchengemeinde haben wir es allerdings mit dem GLD folgendermaßen gemacht, brauchten ein neues Pult:
Habe mein Pult ausgeliehen, dann haben wir die Architektur erstellt.
Und dann wurden die Leute eingeteilt und beim Soundcheck supportet. Und dann deren Meinung eingeholt. Die sind auch von analog umgestiegen.
Dann war das umsteigen problemlos. Und man musste nur die Presets per USB Stick auf das neue gekaufte Pult übertragen.
Und
Ihr könnt die Windows Version runterladen und euch mit dem SQ vorab vertraut machen. RUclips Video ansehen und auf dem Rechner nachmachen. Kann man auch als Schulung machen. Wenn jeder seinen PC mitbringt. Das Avantis ist für Anfänger zu kompliziert. Und wenn möglich eine Notscene erstellen, auf einen Softkey legen. So für den Notfall. Und 2 Admins sind sinnvoll.
Es braucht etwas, bis ihr das Grundpreset angelegt habt, da ihr optimieren werdet.
Surely Behringer X32 Compact. As you will find a lot of specialists near you.
Man we have presonus studioLive 32 for our church we bought in 2019 , i have the exact same issue you talked about it all the sound goes away for about 2 to 3 seconds in a middle of the worship session 🤯 , i can’t handle presonus anymore I am tired of the studioLive doing that in the middle of service…
I was wondering if the new presonus console bought in 2024 has the same issue !! Anybody knows ? Cause im not sure if i should buy new presonus console because i got all AVB’s , switch, etc or if i should get rid of it and jump to another system…
I think new Presonus mixers has very new system, so no previous problems could happens. Also I have read comments that there is no problems with losing sound on new Presonus series.
Our biggest hold up from switching from the Behringer/Midas ecosystem has been our in ear system with the P16s, too many campuses to roll over sadly. Behringer's availability for support and parts has been abysmal unfortunately.
There is the Powerplay P16-I distribution module. Lets you keep all your P16 IEM's but just use the outputs from a stage box or the console so you can choose whatever fits your needs better!
@@AJOrpheo As far as I knew you couldn't throw an Allen & Heath board at the p16s, is that actually possible? Are you talking about routing all the outputs with a stage box 1 to 1?
@@AndrewRaia You are correct. It cannot be digitally connected. The P16-I distribution uses individual TRS connections and then distributes those to your p16's. Obviously not as elegant but still an option if you want to go to SQ.
@@AJOrpheo Yea that is what I figured, not ideal but may a decent phased approach!
@@AndrewRaia Definitely less expensive then switching all p16s at once! lol
My Church's SQ7 failed us. First, the screen was "self operating" itself. Secondly, half of the faders failed and stopped responding. We had to switch to Midas M32
How long did you have the sq7?
it's interesting not a single mention on yamaha console like the entry level TF series or middle entry ql/cl console, my church use yamahal ql5 and it really easy to learn it, it only took me around 1 month to get knowing everything on it.Before i only use analog mixer so basically learn from scrath about digital mixer
TF series is pretty terrible, in my experience. It's good for volunteers until the board glitches and does unexplainable things where the volunteer wouldn't know what to do. I'd stay away, it wouldn't be my first pick, personally.
@@joellouisfire interesting, that’s a good excuse i never use tf console so good to know
@@joellouisfire Unfortunately, every brand can have a bad product every now and then. I've had nothing but good luck with the TF series. I've used multiple TF consoles, even owning one personally for a while, as well as installed them for customers before. Never had a single issue and they always did what they should and sounded great doing it.
The TF series is a good console. It's almost 8 years old, so keep that in mind when comparing to the Wing and other newer consoles. The issue is that it's not all that flexible in terms of routing signals. I've never seen a TF glitch or have issues outside of things going bad due to aging. It's not my first choice of console, especially with A&H options out there, but it's still a good console. Since Yamaha took a year off from manufacturing due to component availability, I'm wondering if they'll come out with another console in that range.
@Jeff F yeah, it's possible we have a bad apple. I haven't had very good things to say about the TF 5, but it could very well be our unit. I still feel bugs aside, it's a bit limiting of a console, like it has training wheels on and it's missing certain important features. Something as simple as a DeEsser would've been nice. Also, fader resolution is very low, but idk if that's just our unit. I just think at the price point, there are other consoles to consider. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad console if we had a good unit, but it wouldn't be my first pick atm, in my personal experience.
Is there anywhere that actually has A&H SQ Dante Interface Card in stock or are they backordered globally due to post-pandemic chip shortage?
As far as I know (I'm a design engineer) they're all backordered.
How many effect slots does the A&H SQ have?
8
how do i make the vocal wide sound widening
Try a nice and short plate vocal reverb, with a short decay time, to add some immediate space to the vocal. If you need more in-depth help, check out worshipministryschool.com for our free toolkit and apply for one-on-one coaching and training from our team. Hope this helps! - Dylan
Buy the Yamaha DM7.
Quick question, I am getting ready to rebuild my churches PA that parts of it date back to the 90's. I will be getting rid of my 16 channel anolog consolo that is dieing. My Sweetwater sales rep is quoting me a Midas M32 as he says a Allen Heath SQ would be overkill for my needs (as of right now, the M32 and SQ5 are the same price). Is the M32 still a good consolo to buy for 2023?
Finde das SQ besser zu handeln als das M32. Vor allem Touch Screen. Und das ist wichtig für das Team. Das X32 habe ich immer noch nich richtig durchschaut, wir haben das in der Kirche. Privat habe ich das Avantis und das GLD. Auch die Mitarbeiter sind mit dem GLD besser als mit dem X32 klargekommen. Die Layout Übersicht ist einfach besser. Das X32 mische ich gerade mehr über die Mixing Station App, weil mich die unfunktionale Oberfläche nervt. Vor allem die festgelegte Layoutstruktur. Kann man mittlerweile über eine separate DCA Gruppe beheben. Das ist den Aufpreis wert.
Yea thats a cool one but...
Avid Venue S6L-32D 😉
The Tascam is a very tempting option and has immense potential, but unless its preamps are much better than the SQ's, it is valued at a unjustified price. One may be tempted to favor it over the SQ or a Wing because of its dual/triple display workflow, but here's the bombshell - the touchscreen is resistive (a technology that was prevalent ~15 years ago), not capacitive. This means it doesn't support multi-touch input or gestures, and that's a pretty hard hit next to the seemingly dated, old-school user interface. "Resistive" also means that it's less sensitive, making it much less responsive, and difficult to operate in a live situation. The SQ and Wing both have pristine displays controlled by capacitive touchscreens. Resistive touchscreens are also notoriously unreliable - they break easily and become less responsive after a certain period of heavy use. At that price, seeing a resistive screen in a mixer is pretty much of a shame.
Some of you may find it silly, but this is the biggest turnoff for me, that made me exclude it from my wish list. Besides that, I think it's an amazing mixer. I hope they'll include a multiband compressor, a dynamic EQ and a mic auto-mix program in a future update. Still... a resistive panel... damn! What were they thinking?!
Brauchst wohl das Avantis mit Deep Pack? Spender gesucht? Geht schon ins Geld. Bist bei 25000-3000€. Stageboxen, Dante Karte ist wegen Recording ein muss. Habe aber die Vorgängerserie, so dass Stageboxen und Dante Karte benutzbar war. Dazu kam Deep Pack und Case. Waren dann 20000€.
Die Möglichkeiten sind eine andere Klasse als das SQ.
No more Behringer Wing? 😢😅
Avantis is a as bad as possible choice over the dLive, which will costs just $1k more for cdm32+c1500. You should know it…
48 channels is the best. Cause modern worship teams uses stereo
on sq7
ngl the wing looks like a cheap midas pro
No good examples of what mixes sound like on this very expensive board. I almost got it, but the price isn’t worth it.
Buy the Yamaha DM7 and your problems are solved.
ECO*system
No Love to the Yamah CL series. What a Shame. CL5 is an amazing desk.
Oh wow our church can't afford any of those "budget" mixers. Do you have any suggestions for mixers under the 1k mark?
Save your money until you can get one. There are no pro options that I am aware of under $5k...you are paying for reliability and flexibility.
If you ABSOLUTLY HAVE TO ND you don't need a lot of inputs, look at the Allen and Heath CQ- 18t. It's currently $1200 and has a lot of cool stuff built in. If you plan to grow, I would seriously just bite the bullet for a better console. Even an X32 is better than doing this for 3k in my opinion.
What would Jesus do? No sound mixer needed.
Yup, only things available in 1st century Palestine are valid. Totally.
The Wing still seems like a beta product even though it's nearly 4 years old. There's no user manual, no native computer software, the Co-Pilot app is very clunky, and layout can be limiting. It has 24 Faders but there's still a bunch of layer jumping, because the breakdown is weird IMO.
I like the GUI on the Wing but there is a bit of a learning curve, especially since there's no manual.
I think the TF5 is a better overall and more complete product compared to the Wing.
They just released an offline (desktop computer) editor.
@@alexdanton4842 That’s a step… I’m going to check it out.
I run the tech at our church. How is the ease of use for novices. I have a teenager who loves to do sound. We are looking to upgrade from the x32 by behringer. Would it be wise to upgrade to the wing, or to get a more modern made x32?
Thank you!
Yes we have p16s and stage boxes from behringer.
What is "Modern made x32"? There are no new 32s...
@@alexanderv.753 firmware I meant!