I get the feeling that this would be more competitive if you bring gt villains into the tournament mostly because omega having the ability to passively weaken foes, super 17 and his energy absorption and babys body snatching of already defeated fighters
@tankofnova9022 Well, remember if both omegas passive ability to weaken foes baby might be able be able to snag some lower top teirs and probably get stronger too as he can absorb the power levels into himself to to snag even more top teirs
@mjama2132 if I remember it's mostly due to the revenge death ball of ss3 baby has a Shockwave that can hit the Supreme kias in his teleportation sub space for his form of instant transmission
@@blankblank6214if the GT hero’s were able to overcome that passive ability, what makes you think their more powerful counterparts couldn’t? What makes you think someone like Jiren doesn’t just vaporize any of them if they prove annoying enough?
At the point we took GT, was Baby or any villain salvageable ? I mean, if we could take the Freeza route in the Super Universe 7, where he accepted so that he could go back from the dead to conquer the galaxy, would GT universe 7 had a better chance if they could either pick Omega Shenron for some of his hax (cuz it's implied, iirc, that he has all the hax of the other shenrons ? And also that would still be at the point in time where Goku and others are at their peak (or just pick 4 stars shenron if you want a good guy i guess but then it wouldn't be the highest power scenario)), Baby to infect the strongest fighters and gang up on everyone with his hive mind after getting one scratch in from anyone on any strong fighter, or maybe some GT hax from another character that could be brought back from the dead (or is alive at the end of GT), like, well, if we're being very quirky, the para para brothers.
i think from gt villains, only rilldo is able to come back. since he was the only one who could be revived bc the shadow dragons aren't able to be summoned, baby needs a host to have powers so it counts as 2 people, and evil 17 doesn't count since he was a cyborg, so he can't be revived only be made (so at that point, you could just do an upgrade on 17 if he wants to like you said). so that's it for them. GG
“Listen baby I know you were literally built to be racist against us but you can’t recreate the tuffle race if we’re all dead I’m begging you here man.”
It might push them over the edge to beat universe six if they can land a scratch and just keep letting baby get stronger and stronger bodies until he might have a chance beating the strongest but even then that’s quite slim of winning I’ll be honest he is the only villain that I could think of that could actually help them to win
It depends on how big of a threat he realises it is like this is the same person who didn’t even do anything when The fusion came out plus baby in a tournament scenario would be really stupid he couldn’t infect entire teams that could just amplify his power or his allies Yeah, I will agree baby would be weak at the very weak at the start but all it takes is like a scratch and then you can infect someone probably he could start with someone from universe nine maybe one of the members of the trio of danger
I think since Goku, Vegeta and Gohan don't need it, it should be given to Goten and Trunks and a Green version should be given to Broly (Basically Full power SSJ4)
Fun fact-super saiyan 4 actually had passive UI abilities, after breaking free of ice shenrons attack,he actually notes that his body remembers certain attacks and makes sure the same move won’t work twice, and litterly fights with no eyes against syn
@@lonkstakes Lon, its not about having your eyes closed we also have to take into context how abused goku was around that time, extremely damage and he got his eyes GOT HEAVILY DAMAGED but was still able to operate for a long while in this state
1: you're forgetting that if they were in the ToP they'd have 40 hours to prepare. Bulma can definitely rebuild her blutz wave machine in that time so every male Saiyan should have SSJ4 available to them. 2: Gohan was only at his Z Ultimate level when he faced Kefla, he just grew to match her as the fight went on. GT Gohan should be able to do the same (not surpass or overtake, just match). 3: Dragon Fist if it landed would fuck up Jiren. 4: If 17 and 18 get upgraded by Bulma she could recreate Super Android 17 who hard counters Jiren's combat style. 5: Accidental SSJG Ritual is a *VERY* real possibility
Dragon Fist would do NOTHING to Jiren. I dare say he would mock the attack after tanking it. Hell, throw Jiren at all of GT and he solos the entire timeline almost laughably easy.
We have learned from super that all Gohan has to do is get angry to become strong. And because GT Gohan never stopped training, if he got that DBS rage boost, he could prob match Zeno
@@DaMonkey76 I feel like they not the same GT gohan if he kept up should’ve been ssj 4 level or higher like Super Gohan but he isn’t Just my opinion tho
@@Andy-su5wgunless you assume the gap between weakened base Goku and super 17 who’s> 10x kamehameha ssj4 Goku is lower than the gap between ssj4 Goku and jiren ight then 😂
Well the z filler is cannon to gt and thus garlic Jr being the only movie villain to show up in a filler arc and the ultra divine water showing up in gt for scaling
i mean...they are though. movie villains appear in GT, Goku already knows the Dragon Fist and Vegeta already knows fusion. how are they not cannon to GT? 🤓
yes lol , ssj4 gogeta slaps , people forget GT has the z movies as its cannon and we all know how stupid powerful the Movie z gang is. also how are you putting frost above kid buu when even piccolo who is only a bit stronger than cell as stated before TOP was able to give him a tough time? manga or anime doesnt matter but manga is just toyotrash honestly. lets stick to the anime, also super gohan did NOT fight blue goku, he got toyed with and one shot in the anime, the manga fight vs kefla was ofcourse toyotrash stuff. you need allot of learning to do about powerscaling to see just how broken GT is
The only way they for them to even have a slight chance to win is if Gohan unlocks Beast in a preparation before ToP or during ToP and they Resurrect Piccolo + Unlock his potential to eventually achieve Orange since both forms don't really depend on God training
Hear me out: Super Saiyan 5 and maybe, potentially, Limit Breaker Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker Gogeta. I feel like it would be unlikely to believe the GT team during the ToP won’t get any new power ups.
GT is taking the victory, and it's not even close. 1. Super Goku is weaker than EoZ Goku since Super will be going into the original EoZ. GT Goku is stronger than SS3 EoZ Goku because GT Goku is stronger than Majuub in base, so base GT Goku is around the theoretical SSG EoZ Goku power spectrum "theoretically". 2. Super Goku has fought many characters stronger than Jiren, so in all honesty, Jiren won't stand a chance against Super Goku at the end of Dbs so since GT Goku is stronger than EoZ who is stronger than Super Goku this would be a breeze against most opponents in his base form. 3. GT Goku has insane techniques like the X10 Kamehameha and Dragon Fist. Those 2 techniques alone could give Goku's team a win, not to mention fusing into Gogeta. 4. Uub's power is insane. I know some will argue "GT isn't in Super's continuity" you may or may not be right Super isnt over yet to truly 100% know but, Uub's power can't change since no matter the continuity its based off Kid Buu and EoZ Goku will have to be relative to Uub in strength. Super is going into the original EoZ. Here is Toyotarou's statement on it "We are preparing the ground to direct Dragon Ball Super into the original Dragon Ball Z ending”. Now that's against Super's ToP. Now, if GT had its own, it would obviously be hard for them to win.
One thing you overlooked is real time power ups - goku didn't go into the tournament with ui, he unlocked that on the job. Same with vegeta blue evolution, cabba ssj2 etc. Logically it would be sound to assume the GT gang could achieve something similar
Gogeta would easily slam since official divine said GT ssj4 gogeta is the strongest dbz character aside from hero’s and other material Don’t argue with me it’s just what he said
@@Saitamaisgoat considering I’d have to buy guides and other material and rewatch the show multiple times and do certain math yeah and considering I’m not a full on nerdy powerscaler
Bruh stop touching GT as a topic it you have no idea how to scale it. Other than that DBS Manga still glazes Galaxy/Universal levels,it is nowhere even remotely close to where the anime is.
If it's Goku GT from the end of the anime and the movie, he Solos the entire Universe 7 in just his base form, Jiren wouldn't stand a chance against Goku GT 100 years ago either.
Nah your buggin with this one. Ive seen the GT down play but trying to come up with this new stuff is crazy. "I FEEL IN HERE ONCE" means "I'VE ONLY EVER BEEN HERE ONCE"
bro ignored the subspace feat totally for GT. bro ignored the whole scale for DBS too. bruh subspace has no concepts of space and time and holds the constructs that have dimensionality and can be potentially infnite in sizes. nothing in DBS comes close to that till DBS broly vs gogeta. either scale well or dont. you explain why Z movies and fillers are non canon to GT just coz of one statement but then we ignore the the countless other examples that can prove that its a part of it right? seem fair. goku saying he once fell in hell doesnt mean thats the only time he got there. i can go through an incident and then 2 years after go through another incident and after another 2 years still talk about first incident that happened dummy. not even a good debunk. i can literally show you the cooler image and say debunk this now lol. you not only downplay DBS goku but downplayed GT goku as well. for now GT goku would be stronger even without movies. with movies it would be far above DBS. i have been saying this all the time. you downplay both DBS and GT heavily. DBS easily reaches 8-9D (potential outer) and GT does reach low outer scaling.
Chouzenshuu 4 states that both Sugoroku Space and the Time Chamber are subspaces. Plus the dbs manga confirms that there are several time chambers throughout the universe.
@@manuelquijada817 the show contradicts this it's nothing like the time chamber cuz it transcends all other realms not even supreme Kai can get there it was created by the death gods
I agree with most of this, but i do feel that GT would do very well in the tournament if not just win. I like how you brought up 17 cause i had super 17 as the villian slot to abuse energy absorption and take on Kefla, probably both of them ringing each other out due to power overload or something like that. The final fight boils down to Gogeta vs Jiren because GT Vegeta is more than willing to fuse with Goku, in fact when he turned ssj4 he basically said " aight let's fuse kakarot" they didn't even really scrap with omega initially. If we give GT Goku that same "break" to get energy from his allies like super Goku, did to charge a spirit bomb we could see Gogeta stick around for longer and be more focused on the fight. No need to act like a total goofball or worry about negative energy. All the scrub fighters would have to be cleaned up though before tackling universe 6, let alone Jiren. Jiren is Gogeta territory only. If Omega is allowed to join in this tournament then i can see it play out similarly to Super with stronger symbolism of the misuse of the dragon balls.
This video does not do GT justice. GT while not heavy on feats does sprinkle moments and phrases that showcase how strong characters are. Let us look at Omega Shenron, I want to emphasize while Omega does not show any universal feats, his presence alone is corrupting the universe at a rate which the Kais are anxious. Again, let me reiterate for anyone who didn't catch on the first time. Omega Shenron while standing and doing absolutely nothing is passively corrupting the universe at a rate that the Kais deem dire. Base Goku also showcased several universal feats as well along with one of the most under talked forms he has achieved, his changed state. I will reiterate again, Omega Shenron while standing, doing nothing and simply talking is passively corrupting the universe at a rate that the Kais think they should leave now. So, an Omega Shenron who is using any bit of effort should not only be comfortably universal but reaching multiversal levels of power quite easily if we take that even Buuhan in Z which GT is based off was destroying the fabric of space and time. It saddens me how overlooked GT is in the eyes of the fans. Very very disappointing that even this RUclipsr contributes further to such disgraceful scaling. Also, I don't know if he discloses this because I didn't bother watching further but DBS Manga Goku does not absorb SSG into his base form and so any universal feats he showcased while impressive does not jump boost his base to the point where GT cannot reach. SS4 Gogeta should be comfortably at the upper echelons of DBS. I'm sorry I need to say this again one last time just so people grasp how crazy it is. Omega Shenron while relaxed, drinking a cup of tea, simply watching the sunset would be passively corrupting the universe at a rate which the Kais wanted to leave immediately and is tiers above Buuhan and yet people dare to question his capabilities? Shame, very shameful at all of you who are.
Here is how they would win if the plot allowed it A fusion between ssj4 gotanks(he was able to turn ssj3 by just watching Goku so them turning ssj4 wouldn't be a stretch) and ssj4 gogeta
GT Gotenks becoming a SSJ4 is a stretch.... 1: you need a tail to become a Golden Great Ape, and control it, to get SSJ4, or in GT Vegetas case, you need to be hit with enough bluxwaves to do the same process, but will need to keep on doing that to go into SSJ4. And 2: GT implied that only full blooded Saiyans can become a SSJ4, as it was stated in the Shadow Dragon Saga, that the reason for why Baby didn’t become a SSJ4, was because Baby’s Tuffle/Machine Mutant DNA, being mixed with GT Vegetas Saiyan DNA, where physically stopping Baby from becoming a SSJ4, but not stopping him from becoming a Golden Great Ape and controlling it. which could potentially mean that Gotenks, having Saiyan and Earthling DNA, might stop him from becoming a SSJ4. (Unless you’re Super DB Heroes that is, lol 😂)
Base GT Goku is enough to handle 50-75% of the ToP at least, having a better feat via destroying the Sugoruku dimension casually in base vs a Super Saiyan God Goku that barely did damage to the universe even when clashing with Beerus
DBS does not scale higher then GT at all. Heroes scaling is irrelevant to DBS and GT since it is a separate continuity. Toriyama said that EOZ Goku is the strongest form of Goku, including Vegito, so since DBS is chronologically before EOZ, then DBS does not scale higher then GT.
Lmao 😭, GT is a different continuity as the god and blue transformations are not mentioned at all, DBS will always be stronger than GT. All it takes is SSJG Goku to wipe the entire verse lol.
@theminorityhunter123 DBS and GT being in separate continuities is irrelevant. EOZ is in both continuities and since DBS takes place before EOZ, it's inferior to GT scaling.
@@jayzdawg3111 wth? EOZ is end of z, which is end of dbz, which both dbs and gt is above, dont know what u smoking tbh, and it still doesnt matter, the newest things will be the best, like dbs is new but gt is old and it came out before dbs, (although this isnt an arguement, i still decided to mention this.)
@@theminorityhunter123 DBS is before the EOZ. So what are you smoking? Or did you not know that DBS is not a sequel to DBZ? Newer is not better or stronger. By that logic, Daima would be better and scale higher then DBS since it is newer. That's ridiculous logic.
Fax 📠 Especially if you take in the fact that these characters got as strong as they did in such a short time, or just very easily in general (like DBS Android 17 and Frieza), then GT Characters can easily compete and win even more.
Yeah, you definitely don't scale GT right at all. If you're going going to take characters at their peak from the Shadow Dragons Saga, then change state Goku should be taken into consideration too not just Super Saiyan 4.
Tbh the only way I can see GT having a chance or even winning would be this strategy, which I haven’t heard anyone mention. Goku and Vegeta keep fighting at full power ssj4, get their ass handed to them, then Maj Uub would keep healing them for a massive Zenkai boost. If they play it smart, eventually the zenkias would catch the duo’s power up. The worse the ass beating the stronger the zenkai, thus the faster they can catch up/surpass in power Should add this too, that very same Goku and vegeta who have been blowing through Zenkais, can fuse into Ssj4 Gogeta which would logical be much stronger than his og counter part. Keep in mind this strategy is just my game plan for them winning. Not saying this is how it’d go, but if I was beerus and demanded them to win, this would be the plan hahaha
SSJ4 puts a Saiyan into the max potential peak form of power (this is why goku become an adult when he transforms), while constantly ascending the potential of the user, Zenkais would do nothing.
gokus base in gt as a child is like what 1000x times then dbs goku without god ki + hes a child if he was an adult 10 times increase most prob if he gets god ki his powerlevel gets to the level of xeno goku + with ssjg its broken lol almost jiren level i bet he can get that in 24 hours specially with their universes fate in stake making beerus go hardass on their asses to get god ki
@Sven_Bot GT takes place after End of Z Dbs is a reboot that takes place After Z in GT there's no God Ki or Anything, Shin was still fused with Kibito it was created before Even Dbs was planned and Dimension thingy, it's not impressive Many characters after Z could do that As i said Base Supressed Vegeta in Dbs *Accidentally destroyed Hyporbolic timechamber dimension* but Battle of Gods might technically count because In Xenoverse it was mentioned that Battle of gods had happened but when Gogeta SSJ4 still was Unsure if he could match Beerus in strength Xenoverse itself counts GT as a separated alternate timeline so yeah, many events of Dbs didn't happen in GT because Goku could use Ui or Just transform into SSG Vegeta as well, he didn't transform into SSG or SSB, instead he used Bloodswave machine to transform into SSJ4
@alibeknorbekov5963 the hyperbolic time chamber is just planet size. The only thing that's like strange is him returning back to earth after destroying it
Scaling wise GT stomps the DBS manga and GT most likely beats the DBS anime due to GT’s speed scaling with Baby’s Revenge Death Ball’s mere shockwaves surpassing the speed of Instantaneous Movement and hitting Kibito Kai and Goku after they teleport but before the re-emerge. Which is vastly outclassed by the Shadow Dragon’s Saga. AP is very debatable between GT and DBS anime but GT has a character that can destroy the Macrocosm by just simply existing in the form of Omega Shenron, SSJ4 Goku being able to overpower him with his dragon fist, and Gogeta outright surpassing them by far DBS is far lower into low multi with their Macrocosm scaling due to it requiring shockwaves that outscale Goku and suppressed Beerus to the point of being able to kill them, though Beerus and Champa fighting could destroy 2 Macrocosms would surpass GT…on paper. But the thing is, GT’s Macrocosm and scaling from Toei has an entire cosmology that’s larger than canon DBS anime (which scales off DB Kai)
I agree with the overall conclusion but this is still GT downplay. GT Goku in his BASE form nearly destroyed the entire afterlife by simply powering up which is not only stated to be dimensionally transcendental in the Daizenshuu and guidebooks (Daizenshuu 4 world guide) making it 4D at bare minimum but is also consistently stated by Goku in both the manga and anime to lack time, in order for Goku to affect realms where time doesn't exist he would have to have power that transcends time itself meaning base GT Goku is 5D. Other characters like Vegeta and Omega Shenron would obviously upscale from this.
Not to mention how GT Goku did those feats all in Base Form, imagine how destructive those feats are if he’s in SSJ, SSJ3 or more importantly, SSJ4...💀
@@Jsipki265 other Guide Books do though, and even if you don’t wanna believe them, simply watching the Show, and the Movies that are Canon to GT (Garlic Jr, the Garlic Jr Mini Anime Saga, and the Cooler Movies, extremely debatable about Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon Movie though). Base GT Goku would indeed be “5D”, especially when Base GT Goku past Baby Saga, was far stronger then Super Baby 2, same Super Baby 2 with a Revenge Death Ball, which creates shockwaves that travel through instant movement, and Dimensions aswell (as its shockwaves caused GT Goku to fall into the Shugoroku Space, which is infinite in size and in between all Dimensions)
I mean in the timeline all of Super up to this point in time occurs during the time after Buu, but before End Of Z. GT takes place years after End Of Z. So canonically (I know GT isn't canon) GT would just be whatever Super is, but even stronger. So technically SJ4 in the timeline should outclass even MUI as that's the strongest form in GT, and GT is furthest in the timeline, so everything in Super must be weaker. So if GT was theoretically canon, Goku & Vegeta as SJ4's should solo the entire T.O.P themselves, even Jiren.
@@lonkstakesI remember her she made cabba need to go to ss2 to beat her so she bare minimum arguably fifty times over a base Vegeta who stronger than first arc SSG Goku she might solo Wait the suit police guy might solo in ultimate form as well since he made top Vegeta go ss1 and took a final flash
That's about where I placed them. They'd do well but ultimately hit a wall against the heavy hitters. I can't get over Pan being on the team tho. For what purpose? Maybe you can throw her at Jiren and get him disqualified when he accidentally turns her into red mist
It's not really a downplaying but misunderstanding that moment, making it seem like Goku singularly had power to destroying the universe, when it was only from one, classing with Berrus, and two, from shockwaves of their classes getting stronger and stronger as they traveled further away, eventually expected to gain enough power to destroy the universe.
@@maku3857With exception to the fact DBS has a confirmed multiverse they quite literally share the same cosmology. The Afterlife, Heaven, Hell, the Kai realms, and living universe should be identical
No, the reasl issue is that the people for some reason don't remember that it was the shockwaves from Goku's and Berrus clashes getting stronger as they moved further and further away from their origin point until eventually gaining power to destroy the universe.
@@ahmedriyad4264 it quite literally not a topic it the most bare bones in terms of scaling and outcome is hit stomps if it top but if it pre top he loses to the Goku black that got SSR It literally either he stomps or he gets stomp Universe tournament hit vs initial Goku black hit Universal tournament hit vs ssr Goku black second Goku fight Goku black Top hit vs any version of Goku black even the scythe one Hit
Okay but what if Goku says "I understand it now" while fighting toppo who was god ki and goes god great ape and becomes super saiyan god 4 huh? Betcha didnt think about that! -🤓
@@lonkstakesi mean ur kinda just milking it at this point i personally believe goku and vegeta/gogeta would get pretty far gt has the time chamber just like super which is a smaller universe sized infinite dimension which BUU and GOTENKS in ss3 screamed out of, omega shenrons "low multiversal" (sorry name of his ball thijg is slippingnmy mind) ball getting kicked casually by ss4 gogeta means gogeta is low multiversal or multiversal atleast
@@Chcksteri like both verses but super fans really seem to get off on gt being non canon and a slightly weaker than super i think changed state goku slams most of super.lmao
GT has no chance of scaling to Super. SSG has to be at least a 20 times multiplier to SSJ3 and that’s not even considering how strong base Goku is in Super - considering he internalizes his God Ki. Even if Base Super Goku is equal to Base GT Goku, then GT is still at a disadvantage. SSB would be roughly 100x stronger than SSJ3. Then you have to factor in Kaio-Ken x20. SSJ4 is a 10 times multiplier to SSJ3. The only chance they would have is if Goku and Vegeta fused into Gogeta, achieved SSJ4 Limit Breaker, ascended beyond that to SSJ5, and then used Kaio-Ken times 20.
@@De_lua-b6v if you look at the af stories version of goku at ssj10 he recreated "everything in existence" dimensions, multiverses all that stuff, that ain't even the strongest af stories version either, if you count dbnews's countnuity
I know folks complain about the other characters scaling up to Goku and Vegeta in Super; but I was just happy it wasn’t always to Goku Time during the Tournament of Power. And even if I prefer the anime’s events more, it’s interesting that even given the manga’s less crazy scaling, GT would struggle with the heavy hitters way more than I realized.
@@pockystyx4087 you know I prefer that than watch majuub who was glazed in base uub by baby to be impress with him to in majuub pressing a stronger baby that beat ss3 Goku to just get one shot by super 17 and omega Also gt gohan apparently being said to never stop training but needed to get saved by majuub from rildo
@@gameuniverse5973 bro, I still can't believe they axed Buu for a transformation on Uub, only to have him still be sidelined for Goku Time. lol If Super ever gets another ToP, I wonder if it will be around the time Uub and Pan are old enough to throw hands. Would be a nice way to let them fight, without having them be written out of the story after a loss.
it would be cool if they brought the super saiyan 4 transformation back. In my opinion its the coolest looking transformation and the one that makes the most sense of what a saiyans ultimate true natural power really is.
Yup. Even putting GT Goku and Vegeta at the same level as DBS T.O.P Goku and Vegeta would have SS4 Gogeta effectively cleaning the entire T.O.P with ease, with the only exception being maybe Jiren
@@righteousone5119but Ssj4 Gogeta would lose to base cabba, even if we scale Ssj4 Gogeta high, Jiren would still easily out time his fusion time limit.
An interesting theory i have is in the second universe of power one of the original erased universes that was destroyed before the tournament, is actually the gt universe. Also they could just pull Omega shenron with them
Don’t forget about the Katchin Katchin metal stage when scaling even the fodder characters. Because being able to break it upscales a ton of them beyound the buu arc.
I'm a fan of GT and honestly the scaling for it is always so criminally misunderstood, it genuinely hurts a bit😂 Not smack talking anyone, but GT is genuinely misunderstood in power scaling to a silly degree. Which to be fair the series and the guide books don't make it easy to understand so I don't blame anyone.
In both the manga and anime, when Goku first transformed into SSJ3, his ki reached the Kaioshin realm. That means Goku had low multi from the beginning of the Majin Buu arc. That means the feat of Goku clashing with Beerus is irrelevant to this discussion because Goku from the Majin Buu arc achieved a feat equal to it if not better. And Dragon Ball GT has very high power jumps than the Dragon Ball Super manga. That means Team Dbgt will win the Tournament of Power in the manga. All of this is ignoring the fact that GT Goku is DBS Goku, as Shueisha published the timeline of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT was placed in the same timeline after Dragon Ball Super. That means Dragon Ball GT is canon. Akira Toriyama saying that Dragon Ball GT is a side story does not mean that Dragon Ball GT is not canon but the opposite, a side story means a story that was not told in the main story like the episode about future Gohan and Trunks is canon even though it is a side story or the events of the Dragon Ball Minus manga is a side story and canon too
@@lonkstakes The full statement is as follows: ところでゴジータは原作 「DB』には登場 けん どうようえいがげんていげんさくドラゴンボール とうじょう ほんさくしていない、ブロリー同様映画限定キャラ!!つまり本作の げんさくしゃ とりやませんせい かなお原作者・鳥山光ラゴンボール せいしを『DB』の「正史」 くわ こころ に加える試みなのだ!! The translation is as follows: By the way, Gogeta does not appear in the original "DB" manga, he is a movie-exclusive character just like Broly!! In other words, the redrawing by the original author Toriyama-sensei is an attempt to include Broly and Gogeta in the "canon" of "DB"!! . You will notice that they referred to Gogeta as a character exclusive to the movies, which means that the Gogeta of the movies is not canon and has been made canon by Dbs broly movie Gogeta ssj4 from GT is not included in this statement because he is not a character exclusive to the movies
@@greatman5958 that’s fine he’s still Gogeta being added to canon for the first time by Toriyama. The movie-exclusive part is clearly just a wording error. Even guides consider both Fusion reborn Gogeta and SSJ4 Gogeta both “Gogeta” regardless of what form they’re in.
@@lonkstakes There is no wording error. The Gogeta that appeared in the movie is exclusive to the movie only. This is a 100% correct sentence. It is clear from the context of the statement that what is meant is that the Gogeta of the movies is the one who is not in canon. This is the only correct conclusion. Any attempt to interpret the words towards Gogeta GT does not make sense with the context. Yes, it is true that the Gogeta of the movies and Gogeta GT have the same name, but they are two completely different characters. This is proven in your video.
To be fair, we saw that in gt, when goku was in the overworld fighting freiza and cell, he shook this cosmos (who apparently was infinite in size according to guidebooks) simply by powering up in base. And in the manga, i doubt that super goku's base form is anywhere near as strong as gt goku's base form, since there isn't any "ssg in base" debate. We don't really know how powerful ssj4 is compared to ssj3, so in the end the biggest question is how well ssj4 does against ssg. But if these forms are close to each other, then ssj4 gogeta might be able to stand against jiren.
@Ajzj7ssj6sh6s7hahahaha no any hypothetical high ends you can do for gt you can do much more for super Any anti feats gt has them worse gt has final arc gt Goku in ss4 get cut by mortal glass at least the laser beam was only the second arc with it being the first time Goku used SSB with it no where near the last form of his
You forgot one important thing to power scale. GT Goku, despite looking like a child, powerscales above Super Goku in not acting like a child. So the TOP would not have happened, because GT Goku doesn't have a need to put his universe in danger to fight in a tournament.
I think the idea of Gt winning would be to have Super Sayian Goku and Vegeta to learn Divine Qi and infuse it onto their Strongest form, Super Saiyan 4, which is technically a stronger form of Icari mode, no? Since its technically rage mode but perfected. Like, if blue is the super saiyan version of the Divine form of the saiyans, then if they push it further and reach the power of the monkey within them, they can technically reach the Super Saiyan 4 of Divine Qi
That fight never really concluded. All we know about how SS4 scales to the God forms according to the SDBH anime is that SS4 Limit Breaker is at the level of UI Sign, and going off of the SDBH manga, SS4 (and if you wanna be realistic, Ultra Super Full Power Saiyan 4) is exactly as strong as SSB (and going off the fact this is post-T.O.P, likely Perfected SSB). So, using SDBH as a source: UI >> UI Sign = SS4LB > SSB Kaiokenx20 = SSBE >> SSB = USFPS4 > SFPS4 > SSG > SS4
Thank you. That's what i'm saying; the maximum ssj4 can be scales to is ssjbkk20 goku. They getting bodied by the likes of jiren, toppo, ui goku, and ssjbe vegeta😂😅
Way to show that you haven't watched/read SDBH. Xeno Goku and CC Goku are different characters, its a multiverse they're not the same just bc they have the same forms.
@@Jsipki265people when they realize random Frieza soldier numbed 1658 is able to one shot king piccolo who was glazed back in og dragon ball with a laser beam
Yes they could. Whis confirmed later that Jiren wasn't any stronger than SSGSS, however he had such mastery over Ki that he knew how to nullify attacks and knew how to properly distribute the necessary Ki for each attack, minimizing waste and allowing for greater power overrall. SS4 Goku only needs to replicate that and he'll solo the first few arcs of Super, as well as be eligible for Tournament of Power.
@thomasthecoolkid7228 , that sometimes happens but isn't any sort of rule. They still fall to hax at multiple occasions. Super 17 can absorb any energy attacks and become stronger as result. This isn't an ability that we have seen any limits to. He can surpass Jiren by absorbing enough energy during the tournament. Baby can possess bodies that are stronger than his own, and can turn others into his slaves. There is a known limit if the other person is too much stronger than he is, however he is able to escalate gradually by possessing weaker bodies and then progressively jumping to stronger ones. The Para Para brothers are extremely weak, much weaker than Pan, but their hax still works on Goku. So probably there is no limit to it either.
I feel like your downplaying GT by not even touching the higher tier scaling through things like sugoroku space and base goku should already be far stronger than kid buu at the beginning of GT due to matching a uub who has trained for 5 years.
@@Xis_sa not really cause Goku is also in the manga trained to the point he think he can take on buu in his regular SS form plus the training with Whis and God forms Super is just stronger.
To be fair we should assume that GT Goku and Vegeta has a transformation during the tournament like they did in Super, e.g. SSJ 5. This would make it interesting
Great video, just wanted to nitpick one little thing Goku’s rilldo statement. When he says “rilldo’s energy is greater than buu’s” how do we know which version of buu he’s talking abt. Like he could be talking abt fat buu
Honestly if they can bring baby or super 17 they might have a chance. If baby just keeps taking over strong bodies he might eventually get to jiren, and if Super 17 can bait some strong fighters into blasting him he could get exponentially stronger too.
anime goku is stronger than beerus is pretty blatantly , there’s not much to suggest that MANGA beerus is just infinitely stronger then anime beerus and black frieza still gets his pockets ran by beerus so
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
GT Goku would just eat the Super Dragon Balls to avoid being erased, easy win
I dont think he can eat those bro💀
@@lonkstakesFIND A WAY
The PAIN he's gonna feel. 💀
Grand Priest:uhh where are the super dragon balls?
Goku with 7 planet shaped lumps in his throat:i dunno
He'd only choke a lil
Gogeta solos the whole thing simply because he's my favorite character
Based
Strongest character for 2 decades vs base kabba, who will win
EXCELLENT LONK'S TAKES WORK. DRAGON BALL GT VS DRAGON BALL SUPER
@@Casual_guy1234 cabba might need to go super saiyan
understandable
If the shadow Dragons still exist, i can see nova helping out in the tournament.
He prolly would
Nova would definitely be a problem for Dyspo.
@@SamuRyeBlackGT clears mid
@theinkdemon7589mid>whatever the fuck GT was.
@@SamuRyeBlack
GT scales way too low for nuova to stand a chance
A new year and lonk chooses to violence against the gt community lol
Is it violence if its just true
@@lonkstakesIf it's my favorite character then yeah
@lonkstakes You literally skip over the best feats from gt i say this in everyone of your gt vids
@@Bardocks_Fig_Collection discord link in description
@@IsaiahJones-rw1pc this shits hilarious 😭 bro was so honest 😭😭
RUN GUYS CABBA MEANS BUSINESS!!!
100 Years timeskip goku became a ghost to avoid being seen by Cabba
What's really funny is with a good estimation ssj2 cabbage would be a match for ssj4 gogeta
@@Master_Of_The_Voidanime cabba atleast
@unrecognizably vegeta in the Manga said cabba was equal to him too
@ no he didn’t. he said “you should be able to hold your own the way i am that is” while panning to cabba being beat tf up and vegeta completely fine.
Lonk after making the 100th DBS VS DBGT video (he is going to explain why Super one shots in his opinion again)
Ay its the super manga this time
@@lonkstakes as if it changes the results lol.
It’s not his fault his fans jerk themselves off to spite matches
So the universes are weaker.@@lonkstakes
@@JustSomeGokuEnjoyer2Yeah you're right it doesn't change the result 😂
But in the manga everyone is weaker
I get the feeling that this would be more competitive if you bring gt villains into the tournament mostly because omega having the ability to passively weaken foes, super 17 and his energy absorption and babys body snatching of already defeated fighters
Baby's ability to snatch *harmed* fighters. Only a cut is required.
Top tiers would reject him like Trunks did, but still useful
@tankofnova9022 Well, remember if both omegas passive ability to weaken foes baby might be able be able to snag some lower top teirs and probably get stronger too as he can absorb the power levels into himself to to snag even more top teirs
lonk takes know gt goku is outerversal
@mjama2132 if I remember it's mostly due to the revenge death ball of ss3 baby has a Shockwave that can hit the Supreme kias in his teleportation sub space for his form of instant transmission
@@blankblank6214if the GT hero’s were able to overcome that passive ability, what makes you think their more powerful counterparts couldn’t? What makes you think someone like Jiren doesn’t just vaporize any of them if they prove annoying enough?
“No one can beat me when im super 17!”
Everybody gangsta till Base Cabba comes in.
lonk takes know gt goku is outerversal
You are corny
At the point we took GT, was Baby or any villain salvageable ? I mean, if we could take the Freeza route in the Super Universe 7, where he accepted so that he could go back from the dead to conquer the galaxy, would GT universe 7 had a better chance if they could either pick Omega Shenron for some of his hax (cuz it's implied, iirc, that he has all the hax of the other shenrons ? And also that would still be at the point in time where Goku and others are at their peak (or just pick 4 stars shenron if you want a good guy i guess but then it wouldn't be the highest power scenario)), Baby to infect the strongest fighters and gang up on everyone with his hive mind after getting one scratch in from anyone on any strong fighter, or maybe some GT hax from another character that could be brought back from the dead (or is alive at the end of GT), like, well, if we're being very quirky, the para para brothers.
Bulma could potentially use Gero's schematics to upgrade 17
i think from gt villains, only rilldo is able to come back. since he was the only one who could be revived bc the shadow dragons aren't able to be summoned, baby needs a host to have powers so it counts as 2 people, and evil 17 doesn't count since he was a cyborg, so he can't be revived only be made (so at that point, you could just do an upgrade on 17 if he wants to like you said). so that's it for them. GG
“Listen baby I know you were literally built to be racist against us but you can’t recreate the tuffle race if we’re all dead I’m begging you here man.”
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 everyone in hell: "😳"
lonk takes know gt goku is outerversal
Gt Solos because nobody can beat him when he's super 17
Depending on when this happens, they could give a one day pass to one of the dead villains like baby
Tbh I dont think baby would help lmao
It might push them over the edge to beat universe six if they can land a scratch and just keep letting baby get stronger and stronger bodies until he might have a chance beating the strongest but even then that’s quite slim of winning
I’ll be honest he is the only villain that I could think of that could actually help them to win
@@lonkstakeshe’d be more useful than tien and pan lmfao
@@Bower-j6lJiren would shut that down so quick when he noticed the weird power spikes
It depends on how big of a threat he realises it is like this is the same person who didn’t even do anything when The fusion came out plus baby in a tournament scenario would be really stupid he couldn’t infect entire teams that could just amplify his power or his allies Yeah, I will agree baby would be weak at the very weak at the start but all it takes is like a scratch and then you can infect someone probably he could start with someone from universe nine maybe one of the members of the trio of danger
I just want SSJ4 to be canon, mainly because I want to see SSJ4...whatever color it'd be
I think since Goku, Vegeta and Gohan don't need it, it should be given to Goten and Trunks and a Green version should be given to Broly (Basically Full power SSJ4)
Same I want them too and stack it on the powerful forms
Tbh I’d be fine if ssj4 was literally just beast gohan
It’s basically the closest we have rn at least
Daima will make SSJ4 canon , fingers crossed
Cannon or not, who cares?
Just enjoy it because it was created
Fun fact-super saiyan 4 actually had passive UI abilities, after breaking free of ice shenrons attack,he actually notes that his body remembers certain attacks and makes sure the same move won’t work twice, and litterly fights with no eyes against syn
🎯
Learning moves after seeing them once and fighting with eyes closed are both things Goku could do in Z
How exactly is that passive UI. Do you niggas even watch the show
Dragon ball OG also has that, so when Goku's eye was scratched by the enemy, he fought by covering his eye.😂
@@lonkstakes Lon, its not about having your eyes closed we also have to take into context how abused goku was around that time, extremely damage and he got his eyes GOT HEAVILY DAMAGED but was still able to operate for a long while in this state
1: you're forgetting that if they were in the ToP they'd have 40 hours to prepare. Bulma can definitely rebuild her blutz wave machine in that time so every male Saiyan should have SSJ4 available to them.
2: Gohan was only at his Z Ultimate level when he faced Kefla, he just grew to match her as the fight went on. GT Gohan should be able to do the same (not surpass or overtake, just match).
3: Dragon Fist if it landed would fuck up Jiren.
4: If 17 and 18 get upgraded by Bulma she could recreate Super Android 17 who hard counters Jiren's combat style.
5: Accidental SSJG Ritual is a *VERY* real possibility
Dragon Fist would do NOTHING to Jiren. I dare say he would mock the attack after tanking it.
Hell, throw Jiren at all of GT and he solos the entire timeline almost laughably easy.
Dragon fist ain’t doing anything imo
We have learned from super that all Gohan has to do is get angry to become strong. And because GT Gohan never stopped training, if he got that DBS rage boost, he could prob match Zeno
@@DaMonkey76 I feel like they not the same GT gohan if he kept up should’ve been ssj 4 level or higher like Super Gohan but he isn’t
Just my opinion tho
@@Andy-su5wgunless you assume the gap between weakened base Goku and super 17 who’s> 10x kamehameha ssj4 Goku is lower than the gap between ssj4 Goku and jiren ight then 😂
Once again, false scaling, you can't scale GT bro!
I wonder how many people are gonna comment and say the movies are canon to GT
"Erm Garlic JR is Canon because of the use of the sacred water and also Cooler shows up so some of the movies are canon" 🤓☝️
@@Hungryfox1 You aint ready for Cooler (GT)
Well the z filler is cannon to gt and thus garlic Jr being the only movie villain to show up in a filler arc and the ultra divine water showing up in gt for scaling
I mean.... In a way they are canon but im not gonna argue at this point i have better things to do so in general.
Potatoes
i mean...they are though. movie villains appear in GT, Goku already knows the Dragon Fist and Vegeta already knows fusion. how are they not cannon to GT? 🤓
yes lol , ssj4 gogeta slaps , people forget GT has the z movies as its cannon and we all know how stupid powerful the Movie z gang is. also how are you putting frost above kid buu when even piccolo who is only a bit stronger than cell as stated before TOP was able to give him a tough time? manga or anime doesnt matter but manga is just toyotrash honestly. lets stick to the anime, also super gohan did NOT fight blue goku, he got toyed with and one shot in the anime, the manga fight vs kefla was ofcourse toyotrash stuff. you need allot of learning to do about powerscaling to see just how broken GT is
Lonk I would like to see you debate saiyan scholar on the topic of Gt power scaling. That’d be interesting.
The only way they for them to even have a slight chance to win is if Gohan unlocks Beast in a preparation before ToP or during ToP and they Resurrect Piccolo + Unlock his potential to eventually achieve Orange since both forms don't really depend on God training
Hear me out: Super Saiyan 5 and maybe, potentially, Limit Breaker Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker Gogeta. I feel like it would be unlikely to believe the GT team during the ToP won’t get any new power ups.
Ah so instead of that pre three robot fusion from universe three before aniriza victims they go higher becoming amped dyspo victims instead
@ I feel like they’d gradually become stronger
It’s all fun and games with ssj4 gogeta until base cabba walks in
at that point you're writing a DBAF fanfic rather than simply powerscaling what we know about GT though
@samscorch8252Ssj5 Gogeta vs Super Saiyan Cabba would break the internet
Gt goku is outer in base while mui goku is outer too. Ssj4 brings out the full potential of a saiyan, so its basically like beast gohan
He isn’t nothing puts him at anywhere near outer
GT is taking the victory, and it's not even close.
1. Super Goku is weaker than EoZ Goku since Super will be going into the original EoZ. GT Goku is stronger than SS3 EoZ Goku because GT Goku is stronger than Majuub in base, so base GT Goku is around the theoretical SSG EoZ Goku power spectrum "theoretically".
2. Super Goku has fought many characters stronger than Jiren, so in all honesty, Jiren won't stand a chance against Super Goku at the end of Dbs so since GT Goku is stronger than EoZ who is stronger than Super Goku this would be a breeze against most opponents in his base form.
3. GT Goku has insane techniques like the X10 Kamehameha and Dragon Fist. Those 2 techniques alone could give Goku's team a win, not to mention fusing into Gogeta.
4. Uub's power is insane. I know some will argue "GT isn't in Super's continuity" you may or may not be right Super isnt over yet to truly 100% know but, Uub's power can't change since no matter the continuity its based off Kid Buu and EoZ Goku will have to be relative to Uub in strength. Super is going into the original EoZ. Here is Toyotarou's statement on it "We are preparing the ground to direct Dragon Ball Super into the original Dragon Ball Z ending”.
Now that's against Super's ToP. Now, if GT had its own, it would obviously be hard for them to win.
worst take of all time
This a ice cold ass take lmfao
@@X02Overdose if ice cold means dumpster water then yeah.
One thing you overlooked is real time power ups - goku didn't go into the tournament with ui, he unlocked that on the job. Same with vegeta blue evolution, cabba ssj2 etc. Logically it would be sound to assume the GT gang could achieve something similar
Gogeta would easily slam since official divine said GT ssj4 gogeta is the strongest dbz character aside from hero’s and other material
Don’t argue with me it’s just what he said
So you just parrot read others despite looking at feats yourself
Ahm THİS İS NOT DBZ ANYMORE THATS THE İSSSUE its DBS not DBZ
The same guy that scaled Krillin to outerversal but kakumei Goku at hyperversal?hell nah
@@Saitamaisgoat considering I’d have to buy guides and other material and rewatch the show multiple times and do certain math yeah and considering I’m not a full on nerdy powerscaler
@@Suitedbee considering Goku at lowest can be scaled to complex multiverse to low outer and gogeta himself scales to layers into outerversal
Bruh stop touching GT as a topic it you have no idea how to scale it.
Other than that DBS Manga still glazes Galaxy/Universal levels,it is nowhere even remotely close to where the anime is.
If it's Goku GT from the end of the anime and the movie, he Solos the entire Universe 7 in just his base form, Jiren wouldn't stand a chance against Goku GT 100 years ago either.
Nah your buggin with this one. Ive seen the GT down play but trying to come up with this new stuff is crazy.
"I FEEL IN HERE ONCE" means "I'VE ONLY EVER BEEN HERE ONCE"
bro ignored the subspace feat totally for GT. bro ignored the whole scale for DBS too. bruh
subspace has no concepts of space and time and holds the constructs that have dimensionality and can be potentially infnite in sizes. nothing in DBS comes close to that till DBS broly vs gogeta.
either scale well or dont. you explain why Z movies and fillers are non canon to GT just coz of one statement but then we ignore the the countless other examples that can prove that its a part of it right? seem fair.
goku saying he once fell in hell doesnt mean thats the only time he got there.
i can go through an incident and then 2 years after go through another incident and after another 2 years still talk about first incident that happened dummy. not even a good debunk. i can literally show you the cooler image and say debunk this now lol.
you not only downplay DBS goku but downplayed GT goku as well.
for now GT goku would be stronger even without movies. with movies it would be far above DBS. i have been saying this all the time. you downplay both DBS and GT heavily.
DBS easily reaches 8-9D (potential outer) and GT does reach low outer scaling.
he cant scale for shi lol gt stomps dbs
@killinghawkz yeah bro just ignores the guides totally while scaling GT. he biased af.
funny thing he downplay DBS too lol
Chouzenshuu 4 states that both Sugoroku Space and the Time Chamber are subspaces. Plus the dbs manga confirms that there are several time chambers throughout the universe.
@@manuelquijada817 the show contradicts this it's nothing like the time chamber cuz it transcends all other realms not even supreme Kai can get there it was created by the death gods
@killinghawkz It doesn’t transcend shit you ass at scaling.
I agree with most of this, but i do feel that GT would do very well in the tournament if not just win. I like how you brought up 17 cause i had super 17 as the villian slot to abuse energy absorption and take on Kefla, probably both of them ringing each other out due to power overload or something like that. The final fight boils down to Gogeta vs Jiren because GT Vegeta is more than willing to fuse with Goku, in fact when he turned ssj4 he basically said " aight let's fuse kakarot" they didn't even really scrap with omega initially.
If we give GT Goku that same "break" to get energy from his allies like super Goku, did to charge a spirit bomb we could see Gogeta stick around for longer and be more focused on the fight. No need to act like a total goofball or worry about negative energy.
All the scrub fighters would have to be cleaned up though before tackling universe 6, let alone Jiren. Jiren is Gogeta territory only. If Omega is allowed to join in this tournament then i can see it play out similarly to Super with stronger symbolism of the misuse of the dragon balls.
Yeah i feel like lonks is just milking the recent gt hate its kind of getting old lmao
This video does not do GT justice. GT while not heavy on feats does sprinkle moments and phrases that showcase how strong characters are. Let us look at Omega Shenron, I want to emphasize while Omega does not show any universal feats, his presence alone is corrupting the universe at a rate which the Kais are anxious. Again, let me reiterate for anyone who didn't catch on the first time. Omega Shenron while standing and doing absolutely nothing is passively corrupting the universe at a rate that the Kais deem dire. Base Goku also showcased several universal feats as well along with one of the most under talked forms he has achieved, his changed state.
I will reiterate again, Omega Shenron while standing, doing nothing and simply talking is passively corrupting the universe at a rate that the Kais think they should leave now. So, an Omega Shenron who is using any bit of effort should not only be comfortably universal but reaching multiversal levels of power quite easily if we take that even Buuhan in Z which GT is based off was destroying the fabric of space and time.
It saddens me how overlooked GT is in the eyes of the fans. Very very disappointing that even this RUclipsr contributes further to such disgraceful scaling. Also, I don't know if he discloses this because I didn't bother watching further but DBS Manga Goku does not absorb SSG into his base form and so any universal feats he showcased while impressive does not jump boost his base to the point where GT cannot reach. SS4 Gogeta should be comfortably at the upper echelons of DBS. I'm sorry I need to say this again one last time just so people grasp how crazy it is. Omega Shenron while relaxed, drinking a cup of tea, simply watching the sunset would be passively corrupting the universe at a rate which the Kais wanted to leave immediately and is tiers above Buuhan and yet people dare to question his capabilities? Shame, very shameful at all of you who are.
I’ve been waiting for this 🔥🔥🔥
Here is how they would win if the plot allowed it
A fusion between ssj4 gotanks(he was able to turn ssj3 by just watching Goku so them turning ssj4 wouldn't be a stretch) and ssj4 gogeta
@@Michael-yz8ke that a amped dyspo victims not going to lie
GT Gotenks becoming a SSJ4 is a stretch....
1: you need a tail to become a Golden Great Ape, and control it, to get SSJ4, or in GT Vegetas case, you need to be hit with enough bluxwaves to do the same process, but will need to keep on doing that to go into SSJ4.
And 2: GT implied that only full blooded Saiyans can become a SSJ4, as it was stated in the Shadow Dragon Saga, that the reason for why Baby didn’t become a SSJ4, was because Baby’s Tuffle/Machine Mutant DNA, being mixed with GT Vegetas Saiyan DNA, where physically stopping Baby from becoming a SSJ4, but not stopping him from becoming a Golden Great Ape and controlling it. which could potentially mean that Gotenks, having Saiyan and Earthling DNA, might stop him from becoming a SSJ4. (Unless you’re Super DB Heroes that is, lol 😂)
Why not Ledgic for the team, I mean he was pretty strong, he was able to fight a lil' against Goku.
He could go in the flex spot I guess, doesn't really make a difference either way
@@lonkstakes He was high super mario galaxy level tho
Base GT Goku is enough to handle 50-75% of the ToP at least, having a better feat via destroying the Sugoruku dimension casually in base vs a Super Saiyan God Goku that barely did damage to the universe even when clashing with Beerus
DBS does not scale higher then GT at all. Heroes scaling is irrelevant to DBS and GT since it is a separate continuity. Toriyama said that EOZ Goku is the strongest form of Goku, including Vegito, so since DBS is chronologically before EOZ, then DBS does not scale higher then GT.
Lmao 😭, GT is a different continuity as the god and blue transformations are not mentioned at all, DBS will always be stronger than GT. All it takes is SSJG Goku to wipe the entire verse lol.
@@theminorityhunter123 And then Pan shoots a puny laser and Goku goes down hard
@theminorityhunter123
DBS and GT being in separate continuities is irrelevant. EOZ is in both continuities and since DBS takes place before EOZ, it's inferior to GT scaling.
@@jayzdawg3111 wth? EOZ is end of z, which is end of dbz, which both dbs and gt is above, dont know what u smoking tbh, and it still doesnt matter, the newest things will be the best, like dbs is new but gt is old and it came out before dbs, (although this isnt an arguement, i still decided to mention this.)
@@theminorityhunter123
DBS is before the EOZ. So what are you smoking? Or did you not know that DBS is not a sequel to DBZ? Newer is not better or stronger. By that logic, Daima would be better and scale higher then DBS since it is newer. That's ridiculous logic.
If Roshi, Krillin, 17, 18, Tien, Piccoro, freeza was able to compete.....GT characters can easly compete and win
Fax 📠
Especially if you take in the fact that these characters got as strong as they did in such a short time, or just very easily in general (like DBS Android 17 and Frieza), then GT Characters can easily compete and win even more.
This is a lie GT Has Feats that put them to multiversal
Yeah, you definitely don't scale GT right at all. If you're going going to take characters at their peak from the Shadow Dragons Saga, then change state Goku should be taken into consideration too not just Super Saiyan 4.
I guess returning to Monke wasn’t a good idea after all
Tbh the only way I can see GT having a chance or even winning would be this strategy, which I haven’t heard anyone mention.
Goku and Vegeta keep fighting at full power ssj4, get their ass handed to them, then Maj Uub would keep healing them for a massive Zenkai boost. If they play it smart, eventually the zenkias would catch the duo’s power up. The worse the ass beating the stronger the zenkai, thus the faster they can catch up/surpass in power
Should add this too, that very same Goku and vegeta who have been blowing through Zenkais, can fuse into Ssj4 Gogeta which would logical be much stronger than his og counter part.
Keep in mind this strategy is just my game plan for them winning. Not saying this is how it’d go, but if I was beerus and demanded them to win, this would be the plan hahaha
SSJ4 puts a Saiyan into the max potential peak form of power (this is why goku become an adult when he transforms), while constantly ascending the potential of the user, Zenkais would do nothing.
gokus base in gt as a child is like what 1000x times then dbs goku without god ki + hes a child if he was an adult 10 times increase most prob
if he gets god ki his powerlevel gets to the level of xeno goku + with ssjg its broken lol almost jiren level
i bet he can get that in 24 hours specially with their universes fate in stake making beerus go hardass on their asses to get god ki
2:28
the fact that he simply recounts that he fell in there once doesn't disprove that he has been there on other occasions.
Goku in gt after destroying a dimension in hell at base:
well
Buuhan could do that
Vegeta in base does that while Holding back, he destroyed Hyporbolic time chamber Multiple times in Dbs
@@alibeknorbekov5963 in hell base gt goku destroyed a dimension
@@alibeknorbekov5963gt takes place after super some proofs are
Gt Pan is older than super pan krillen is older and Satan looks OLD
@Sven_Bot GT takes place after End of Z
Dbs is a reboot that takes place After Z
in GT there's no God Ki or Anything, Shin was still fused with Kibito
it was created before Even Dbs was planned
and Dimension thingy, it's not impressive
Many characters after Z could do that
As i said Base Supressed Vegeta in Dbs *Accidentally destroyed Hyporbolic timechamber dimension*
but Battle of Gods might technically count
because In Xenoverse it was mentioned that Battle of gods had happened
but when Gogeta SSJ4 still was Unsure if he could match Beerus in strength
Xenoverse itself counts GT as a separated alternate timeline so
yeah, many events of Dbs didn't happen in GT
because Goku could use Ui or Just transform into SSG
Vegeta as well, he didn't transform into SSG or SSB, instead he used Bloodswave machine to transform into SSJ4
@alibeknorbekov5963 the hyperbolic time chamber is just planet size. The only thing that's like strange is him returning back to earth after destroying it
Great video!
Could you please do: Where does each Ichigo's (arcs or distinct forms) power scale to the dragon ball Z/S timeline?
Scaling wise GT stomps the DBS manga and GT most likely beats the DBS anime due to GT’s speed scaling with Baby’s Revenge Death Ball’s mere shockwaves surpassing the speed of Instantaneous Movement and hitting Kibito Kai and Goku after they teleport but before the re-emerge. Which is vastly outclassed by the Shadow Dragon’s Saga. AP is very debatable between GT and DBS anime but GT has a character that can destroy the Macrocosm by just simply existing in the form of Omega Shenron, SSJ4 Goku being able to overpower him with his dragon fist, and Gogeta outright surpassing them by far
DBS is far lower into low multi with their Macrocosm scaling due to it requiring shockwaves that outscale Goku and suppressed Beerus to the point of being able to kill them, though Beerus and Champa fighting could destroy 2 Macrocosms would surpass GT…on paper. But the thing is, GT’s Macrocosm and scaling from Toei has an entire cosmology that’s larger than canon DBS anime (which scales off DB Kai)
Ledgic. You totally skipped over my goat, dude he is way stronger than both Tien and Piccolo. My dude was at minimum Super Saiyan 2 Gt Goku level.
I agree with the overall conclusion but this is still GT downplay. GT Goku in his BASE form nearly destroyed the entire afterlife by simply powering up which is not only stated to be dimensionally transcendental in the Daizenshuu and guidebooks (Daizenshuu 4 world guide) making it 4D at bare minimum but is also consistently stated by Goku in both the manga and anime to lack time, in order for Goku to affect realms where time doesn't exist he would have to have power that transcends time itself meaning base GT Goku is 5D. Other characters like Vegeta and Omega Shenron would obviously upscale from this.
Not to mention how GT Goku did those feats all in Base Form, imagine how destructive those feats are if he’s in SSJ, SSJ3 or more importantly, SSJ4...💀
this lonks guy is a fodder
Btw the daizhenshu doesn’t say any of this
@@ayonhussainforever9390 and y’all are ass at scaling and to actually talk to lonk.
@@Jsipki265 other Guide Books do though, and even if you don’t wanna believe them, simply watching the Show, and the Movies that are Canon to GT (Garlic Jr, the Garlic Jr Mini Anime Saga, and the Cooler Movies, extremely debatable about Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon Movie though).
Base GT Goku would indeed be “5D”, especially when Base GT Goku past Baby Saga, was far stronger then Super Baby 2, same Super Baby 2 with a Revenge Death Ball, which creates shockwaves that travel through instant movement, and Dimensions aswell (as its shockwaves caused GT Goku to fall into the Shugoroku Space, which is infinite in size and in between all Dimensions)
I mean in the timeline all of Super up to this point in time occurs during the time after Buu, but before End Of Z. GT takes place years after End Of Z. So canonically (I know GT isn't canon) GT would just be whatever Super is, but even stronger.
So technically SJ4 in the timeline should outclass even MUI as that's the strongest form in GT, and GT is furthest in the timeline, so everything in Super must be weaker.
So if GT was theoretically canon, Goku & Vegeta as SJ4's should solo the entire T.O.P themselves, even Jiren.
Winning NAH get the universe past Monna first 🙏😭
Genuinely had to look up which fodder DBS character this was LMAO
@@lonkstakesI remember her she made cabba need to go to ss2 to beat her so she bare minimum arguably fifty times over a base Vegeta who stronger than first arc SSG Goku she might solo
Wait the suit police guy might solo in ultimate form as well since he made top Vegeta go ss1 and took a final flash
Bro REALLY said “let’s take the version that was released second bc most side characters are hundreds of times weaker”
That's about where I placed them. They'd do well but ultimately hit a wall against the heavy hitters. I can't get over Pan being on the team tho. For what purpose? Maybe you can throw her at Jiren and get him disqualified when he accidentally turns her into red mist
Pan > Piccolo, Android 17 & 18.
Yes she scales to base Goku (shadow dragon saga)
If Omega Shenron Was In TOP In Universe 7 He Would Put Both Jiren And G.O.D Toppo To Sleep
preach
6:53 to anyone that might bring up lonk downplaying the cosmology
That isnt important at all because gt and super have the same cosmology
No they don't
It's not really a downplaying but misunderstanding that moment, making it seem like Goku singularly had power to destroying the universe, when it was only from one, classing with Berrus, and two, from shockwaves of their classes getting stronger and stronger as they traveled further away, eventually expected to gain enough power to destroy the universe.
@@maku3857With exception to the fact DBS has a confirmed multiverse they quite literally share the same cosmology. The Afterlife, Heaven, Hell, the Kai realms, and living universe should be identical
@@maku3857 ah yes, the classic "nuh uh" response.
No, the reasl issue is that the people for some reason don't remember that it was the shockwaves from Goku's and Berrus clashes getting stronger as they moved further and further away from their origin point until eventually gaining power to destroy the universe.
Anime Continuity: They’d lose to Jiren
Manga Continuity: They’d absolutely win
Can you do Hit vs Goku Black?
Its not really a topic that is fully video worthy. Hit wins
@@lonkstakesthen make it a short
@@ahmedriyad4264 it quite literally not a topic it the most bare bones in terms of scaling and outcome is hit stomps if it top but if it pre top he loses to the Goku black that got SSR
It literally either he stomps or he gets stomp
Universe tournament hit vs initial Goku black hit
Universal tournament hit vs ssr Goku black second Goku fight
Goku black
Top hit vs any version of Goku black even the scythe one
Hit
Okay but what if Goku says "I understand it now" while fighting toppo who was god ki and goes god great ape and becomes super saiyan god 4 huh? Betcha didnt think about that! -🤓
we get it bro
im sorry😭
Straight up hating is crazy
@ Not hating, it’s a good video. It’s just tough being a GT fan nowadays
@@lonkstakesi mean ur kinda just milking it at this point i personally believe goku and vegeta/gogeta would get pretty far gt has the time chamber just like super which is a smaller universe sized infinite dimension which BUU and GOTENKS in ss3 screamed out of, omega shenrons "low multiversal" (sorry name of his ball thijg is slippingnmy mind) ball getting kicked casually by ss4 gogeta means gogeta is low multiversal or multiversal atleast
@@Chcksteri like both verses but super fans really seem to get off on gt being non canon and a slightly weaker than super i think changed state goku slams most of super.lmao
If it's Goku GT with the feats from the movie at the end of the evil dragons arc, they would win.
Insert low quality let the bodies hit the floor edit for GT:
GT has no chance of scaling to Super. SSG has to be at least a 20 times multiplier to SSJ3 and that’s not even considering how strong base Goku is in Super - considering he internalizes his God Ki.
Even if Base Super Goku is equal to Base GT Goku, then GT is still at a disadvantage. SSB would be roughly 100x stronger than SSJ3. Then you have to factor in Kaio-Ken x20.
SSJ4 is a 10 times multiplier to SSJ3.
The only chance they would have is if Goku and Vegeta fused into Gogeta, achieved SSJ4 Limit Breaker, ascended beyond that to SSJ5, and then used Kaio-Ken times 20.
Guys RUN thats Base Cabba we are fighting
*IM GONNA PROTECT MY MASTER* one shots the entire U7
well said, SuperSaiyanFourGogetaSolos
lonk takes know gt goku is outerversal
Fire video lonk
Cool video youre the best at powerscaling
Idea:can you make AF SSJ5 Goku vs TOP?
Maybe Ill finally start scaling fan versions of Goku in 2025
@@lonkstakes nice! 👍
Does Af goku had any feats/statements. Other than being after gt?
@@De_lua-b6v if you look at the af stories version of goku at ssj10 he recreated "everything in existence" dimensions, multiverses all that stuff, that ain't even the strongest af stories version either, if you count dbnews's countnuity
@t-money8264 oh ok.
They should've brought 17 into the team by any means necessary because nobody can beat him when hes super 17.
If they got training with whis and Beerus: nah I win
If not: I am so cooked 😭😭
Ultra Monkey Instinct
Great Video and i say GT team won't win in the tournament, but can you do a video of Street Fighter characters in Tournament of Power
I know folks complain about the other characters scaling up to Goku and Vegeta in Super; but I was just happy it wasn’t always to Goku Time during the Tournament of Power. And even if I prefer the anime’s events more, it’s interesting that even given the manga’s less crazy scaling, GT would struggle with the heavy hitters way more than I realized.
@@pockystyx4087 you know I prefer that than watch majuub who was glazed in base uub by baby to be impress with him to in majuub pressing a stronger baby that beat ss3 Goku to just get one shot by super 17 and omega
Also gt gohan apparently being said to never stop training but needed to get saved by majuub from rildo
@@gameuniverse5973 bro, I still can't believe they axed Buu for a transformation on Uub, only to have him still be sidelined for Goku Time. lol
If Super ever gets another ToP, I wonder if it will be around the time Uub and Pan are old enough to throw hands. Would be a nice way to let them fight, without having them be written out of the story after a loss.
it would be cool if they brought the super saiyan 4 transformation back. In my opinion its the coolest looking transformation and the one that makes the most sense of what a saiyans ultimate true natural power really is.
Ssj4 Gogeta dominates the T.O.P and GT Goku and Vegeta are more open to the fusion dance in GT.
Yup. Even putting GT Goku and Vegeta at the same level as DBS T.O.P Goku and Vegeta would have SS4 Gogeta effectively cleaning the entire T.O.P with ease, with the only exception being maybe Jiren
@@righteousone5119but Ssj4 Gogeta would lose to base cabba, even if we scale Ssj4 Gogeta high, Jiren would still easily out time his fusion time limit.
@@BeautifulRoppi I had forgotten about that meme😂
An interesting theory i have is in the second universe of power one of the original erased universes that was destroyed before the tournament, is actually the gt universe. Also they could just pull Omega shenron with them
Awesome tien is peak fiction
Lonk please do a awesome tien (I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU tien) against fiction
Don’t forget about the Katchin Katchin metal stage when scaling even the fodder characters. Because being able to break it upscales a ton of them beyound the buu arc.
This was certainly a lonk take
I'm a fan of GT and honestly the scaling for it is always so criminally misunderstood, it genuinely hurts a bit😂
Not smack talking anyone, but GT is genuinely misunderstood in power scaling to a silly degree. Which to be fair the series and the guide books don't make it easy to understand so I don't blame anyone.
In both the manga and anime, when Goku first transformed into SSJ3, his ki reached the Kaioshin realm.
That means Goku had low multi from the beginning of the Majin Buu arc.
That means the feat of Goku clashing with Beerus is irrelevant to this discussion because Goku from the Majin Buu arc achieved a feat equal to it if not better.
And Dragon Ball GT has very high power jumps than the Dragon Ball Super manga.
That means Team Dbgt will win the Tournament of Power in the manga.
All of this is ignoring the fact that GT Goku is DBS Goku, as Shueisha published the timeline of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT was placed in the same timeline after Dragon Ball Super.
That means Dragon Ball GT is canon.
Akira Toriyama saying that Dragon Ball GT is a side story does not mean that Dragon Ball GT is not canon but the opposite, a side story means a story that was not told in the main story like the episode about future Gohan and Trunks is canon even though it is a side story or the events of the Dragon Ball Minus manga is a side story and canon too
DBS broly is verbatim stated to be the first media in canon with Gogeta in it.
@@lonkstakes
The full statement is as follows:
ところでゴジータは原作 「DB』には登場 けん どうようえいがげんていげんさくドラゴンボール とうじょう ほんさくしていない、ブロリー同様映画限定キャラ!!つまり本作の げんさくしゃ とりやませんせい かなお原作者・鳥山光ラゴンボール せいしを『DB』の「正史」 くわ こころ に加える試みなのだ!!
The translation is as follows:
By the way, Gogeta does not appear in the original "DB" manga, he is a movie-exclusive character just like Broly!! In other words, the redrawing by the original author Toriyama-sensei is an attempt to include Broly and Gogeta in the "canon" of "DB"!! .
You will notice that they referred to Gogeta as a character exclusive to the movies, which means that the Gogeta of the movies is not canon and has been made canon by Dbs broly movie
Gogeta ssj4 from GT is not included in this statement because he is not a character exclusive to the movies
@@greatman5958 that’s fine he’s still Gogeta being added to canon for the first time by Toriyama. The movie-exclusive part is clearly just a wording error. Even guides consider both Fusion reborn Gogeta and SSJ4 Gogeta both “Gogeta” regardless of what form they’re in.
@@lonkstakes
There is no wording error. The Gogeta that appeared in the movie is exclusive to the movie only. This is a 100% correct sentence.
It is clear from the context of the statement that what is meant is that the Gogeta of the movies is the one who is not in canon. This is the only correct conclusion. Any attempt to interpret the words towards Gogeta GT does not make sense with the context.
Yes, it is true that the Gogeta of the movies and Gogeta GT have the same name, but they are two completely different characters. This is proven in your video.
That wall only had BoG
To be fair, we saw that in gt, when goku was in the overworld fighting freiza and cell, he shook this cosmos (who apparently was infinite in size according to guidebooks) simply by powering up in base.
And in the manga, i doubt that super goku's base form is anywhere near as strong as gt goku's base form, since there isn't any "ssg in base" debate.
We don't really know how powerful ssj4 is compared to ssj3, so in the end the biggest question is how well ssj4 does against ssg. But if these forms are close to each other, then ssj4 gogeta might be able to stand against jiren.
If SS4 Gogeta is losing to Cabba, Dragon Ball GT sure as hell ain't winning the Tournament of Power 😭☠️
Base GT goku slams cabba tho
@Ajzj7ssj6sh6s7hahahaha no any hypothetical high ends you can do for gt you can do much more for super
Any anti feats gt has them worse gt has final arc gt Goku in ss4 get cut by mortal glass at least the laser beam was only the second arc with it being the first time Goku used SSB with it no where near the last form of his
Ain't going to lie universe nine like entire jumping light take out most of the gt team not going to cap
@Ajzj7ssj6sh6s7 Gt Gets eclipsed by BoG Goku😂
It isn't funny anymore
You forgot one important thing to power scale. GT Goku, despite looking like a child, powerscales above Super Goku in not acting like a child.
So the TOP would not have happened, because GT Goku doesn't have a need to put his universe in danger to fight in a tournament.
No 💀
someone tht actually scales everyone equally and not biased ass hell? NICE
I think the idea of Gt winning would be to have Super Sayian Goku and Vegeta to learn Divine Qi and infuse it onto their Strongest form, Super Saiyan 4, which is technically a stronger form of Icari mode, no? Since its technically rage mode but perfected.
Like, if blue is the super saiyan version of the Divine form of the saiyans, then if they push it further and reach the power of the monkey within them, they can technically reach the Super Saiyan 4 of Divine Qi
You should make a how strong is El Hermano video
In the Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime SSJ4 lost to SSJB. I know this isn't canon but neither is GT.
That fight never really concluded. All we know about how SS4 scales to the God forms according to the SDBH anime is that SS4 Limit Breaker is at the level of UI Sign, and going off of the SDBH manga, SS4 (and if you wanna be realistic, Ultra Super Full Power Saiyan 4) is exactly as strong as SSB (and going off the fact this is post-T.O.P, likely Perfected SSB). So, using SDBH as a source:
UI >> UI Sign = SS4LB > SSB Kaiokenx20 = SSBE >> SSB = USFPS4 > SFPS4 > SSG > SS4
Thank you. That's what i'm saying; the maximum ssj4 can be scales to is ssjbkk20 goku. They getting bodied by the likes of jiren, toppo, ui goku, and ssjbe vegeta😂😅
Way to show that you haven't watched/read SDBH. Xeno Goku and CC Goku are different characters, its a multiverse they're not the same just bc they have the same forms.
@toxicrepeter8607 who said they were the same???
@@dspectre1572 I meant that they're different characters from the ones the original comment was referring to (aka GT Goku and DBS Goku respectively)
Could you do what if the z movies were cannon, like you choose how they are cannon?
Tien 3rd eye solos🥱
Awesome tien
Imagine if the super dragon balls became their own version of the blackstar ones 💀
Idk how imma take this seriously when you genuinely think Cappa beats ss4 Gogeta lol
Because he does? Like you’re not giving a argument on why Gogeta wins.
@@Jsipki265Cabba doesn't even get past base GT goku
@@Jsipki265people when they realize random Frieza soldier numbed 1658 is able to one shot king piccolo who was glazed back in og dragon ball with a laser beam
@ go ahead and prove that
@@gameuniverse5973 I know these people aren’t very bright 😭
Yes they could. Whis confirmed later that Jiren wasn't any stronger than SSGSS, however he had such mastery over Ki that he knew how to nullify attacks and knew how to properly distribute the necessary Ki for each attack, minimizing waste and allowing for greater power overrall.
SS4 Goku only needs to replicate that and he'll solo the first few arcs of Super, as well as be eligible for Tournament of Power.
if this aint equal stats then its wraps for GT ngl
Why did you not include GT villains?
Baby, Super 17, Omega Shenron, and the Para Para brothers all stand formidable chance due to their hax.
Unless you say that Super characters negate hax by being stronger
@thomasthecoolkid7228 , that sometimes happens but isn't any sort of rule. They still fall to hax at multiple occasions.
Super 17 can absorb any energy attacks and become stronger as result. This isn't an ability that we have seen any limits to. He can surpass Jiren by absorbing enough energy during the tournament.
Baby can possess bodies that are stronger than his own, and can turn others into his slaves. There is a known limit if the other person is too much stronger than he is, however he is able to escalate gradually by possessing weaker bodies and then progressively jumping to stronger ones.
The Para Para brothers are extremely weak, much weaker than Pan, but their hax still works on Goku. So probably there is no limit to it either.
I feel like your downplaying GT by not even touching the higher tier scaling through things like sugoroku space and base goku should already be far stronger than kid buu at the beginning of GT due to matching a uub who has trained for 5 years.
This is because sugoroku space scaling is ass
Maybe because he already debunked and stated why he doesn’t use those scaling chains😐
@ that’s your opinion and my other point still stands
@ also even without that scaling it is still at the very least on par with the Dbs manga
@@Xis_sa not really cause Goku is also in the manga trained to the point he think he can take on buu in his regular SS form plus the training with Whis and God forms Super is just stronger.
To be fair we should assume that GT Goku and Vegeta has a transformation during the tournament like they did in Super, e.g. SSJ 5. This would make it interesting
give GT a win already 😭
They have to earn it
Maybe daima Goku vs pre baby arc gt Goku might be a actual fair debate maybe
@@gameuniverse5973Tf no gt goku in base claps daima goku
@@gameuniverse5973 nah, base GT goku (pre baby) = ssj3 goku (z)
@Hawkson19 Goku when he shown in just base in daima is stated the strongest in the universe this is where ultimate Gohan would still exist so I mean
Gt has a pretty big multiversal feat, buuhan has a low multiversal feat, gt would upscale this by a lot.
Great video, just wanted to nitpick one little thing
Goku’s rilldo statement. When he says “rilldo’s energy is greater than buu’s” how do we know which version of buu he’s talking abt. Like he could be talking abt fat buu
I was being nice to GT here. I’ve talked about how this could be about good Buu equally as much as Kid or Super buu
@ aight cool thanks for clearing that up
Honestly if they can bring baby or super 17 they might have a chance. If baby just keeps taking over strong bodies he might eventually get to jiren, and if Super 17 can bait some strong fighters into blasting him he could get exponentially stronger too.
No, because at best based in video game, they're only Goku Black arc level of power by the time of Shadow Dragon arc.
End game gt goku would fold the top. He literally ascend to the dragon realm.
Damn using the manga scaling kinda killed it for me.
Well just know the anime scales even higher lol
@@lonkstakesit really doesn’t.
It scales infinity higher than the manga, in the Anime MUI Goku already has better feats than manga Black frieza @@SonZackSSJ9k
@@billy75chook80 He really doesn’t lmao.
anime goku is stronger than beerus is pretty blatantly , there’s not much to suggest that MANGA beerus is just infinitely stronger then anime beerus and black frieza still gets his pockets ran by beerus so
The Janemba movie not being canon to GT definitely changes some of my opinions of GT scaling
….only some