“The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter. If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't.”
A 3 level dip into Gloom Stalker Ranger would benefit this build too. Extra damage die against a surprised creature, and extra attack against said creature, free darkvision or enhancing already existing darkvision, And the ability to not be seen by darkvision while hiding in shadows.
I very recently thought of a similar character, but it was a pure Warlock that takes all the sneaky invocations, to be the best non-rogue rogue in the party: the Eldritch Trickster. Quite literally using smoke and mirrors, this Chainlock uses Relentless Hex to teleport to their flying familiar for infiltration, as well as some shenanigans with Thaumaturgy, the Actor feat and Voice of the Chain Master to not only speak through their familiar, but also make it really loud and sound like someone else, while being in a different room. It's a heavy roleplay build, opting for invocations like Ghostly Gaze to case out buildings for things to steal, but a free teleport as long as you're near a window is ridiculous for getting in and out of anywhere!
I was just thinking earlier today about how it’s so hard to create a magical assassin that feels sneaky and deadly. I feel like taking Shadow Touched would be good on this build. Getting a free use of Invisibility could help set up those surprise attacks without draining precious spell slots. Inflict Wounds is also a spell that upcasts particularly well.
lovely concept! I always wondered if we can mix both sneak attack and smite together, but it has never occured to me that you can do it with warlock! Love the inspiration, love the content, keep it up!
I definitely homebrew a surprise round 🎉 especially for smaller groups without a tank/healer. Rewards them for being clever. You got me to comment! So I guess I should subscribe 😂
I went something similar, but focused more on the rogue part. I used fallen Aasimar and phantom rogue to just throw necrotic everywhere and then subclass into hexblade for more crits and thoes beautiful hexes/smites ontop of it. I dont know how its going to play but i do know it will be a lot of fun.
I love the concept of this build! I would change one thing though. I would use a Whispers Bard instead of a Warlock. More Spells, greater versatility, the ability to (almost literally) become the enemies wife (if you killed her), and it synergizes perfectly with rogue. Yes, you wouldn't get the medium armor, but that can be adjusted as well.
I still use surprise, but the compromise is it's a part round with an extra action, then any other movement or bonus action are taken off of your first round. I recently had a giant trap door spider surprise a player, then roll a 1 for initiative. That would be silly to have such an effective surprise just be negated when the situation and perception checks were failed badly by the player, and set up well by the monster, only to have an initiative roll scrap that build up. Cheers.
One issue with how you run surprise is that it reinforces "I said i attack first" to get a free hit on the enemy. It also teaches everyine in your party to always try to get a drop on the enemy for a free attack (which is kinda how surprise works anyway so no biggie, so long you dont run an extra "surprise round" after.)
3rd level assassin rogue on a scorlock bug bear is amazing as you can dish out up to 14 attacks in one round at advantage getting an additional 4d6 damage on top of being critical hits.
I actually agree with the way it works RAW. If the opponent is surprised but beat, you on initiative it just means they were able to react in time to being attacked. Half the fun of building assassins is seeing how stupid you can get your initiative bonus to all but guarantee advantage on all attacks round 1. The auto crit part of assassinate is icing on the cake but assassin 3 is still a fantastic dip for any nova build. My issues with the assassin come later on as their higher-level features flat out suck. PC's have a million ways to boost initiative so build the character to be good at the thing that lets their feature work, granted i find it odd that assassins don't get an initiative boost. I like this build a lot, solid job, harengon is for sure the best race for it. You can already one shot a dragon with the damage this build can achieve, no need to go overkill with bugbear surprise damage too. Also bugbear makes more out of more attacks per round on round 1 so action surge immediately improves the build. My version of this concept was 5 gloomstalker (adds extra attack and pass without trace) 3 assassin and 3 battlemaster. rest assassin if you get that far. It does more nova than this build but i love the charisma base infiltration this build adds plus the spellcasting.
If a player's enemy wins initiative, I would give it a turn, and as its action it would roll perception. On a failure it could move how it had planned without knowing of the player. And in that case the player would still get surprise.
I was planning out a level 12 build of 6 Fighter/6 Warlock so I could have Battlemaster maneuvers, extra attack, and the eldritch smites. No sneak attack but he'll be pretty burly and just have a lot of options. Hexblade really gives so many possibilities ha
I don't necessarily disagree RE: Assassin and Surprise, though I don't see it quite the same way as far as the surprised condition and the start of combat is concerned. My take on the surprised condition is that it's about whether the person is expecting whatever sets off combat. Some features and abilities mean that a character cannot be surprised (Barbarians with Feral Instinct, Alert Feat, Weapon of Warning, etc.). Those features should mean that the character can act during the first round of combat (those are PC abilities which you probably shouldn't give to NPCs with very few exceptions, but still) since there's a reason that they are going to be on high alert. At the beginning of combat, something happens to set everything off: someone draws a weapon, someone casts a spell, etc. All of those things are happening at the same time. If the enemy is surprised, then they aren't able to react in the first 6 seconds of combat; if the enemy is not surprised, then they are able to react to the trigger. All of that is to say that my "fix" for the Assassin Rogue would be this: "Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against ONE CREATURE OF YOUR CHOICE DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF COMBAT. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that HAD THE surprised CONDITION AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT ROUND is a critical hit." I'm not as sure about the first change, though I like the limitation of an assassin choosing one target to take out in the first round. For the second change, the wording might need a tweak, but the idea is that it lets the assassin actually trigger their subclass feature a little more reliably, even if they lose in initiative, and it reflects the reality of combat that everything in a round is happening simultaneously. The other thing I did for the Assassin Rogue in my campaign is to give her a magic weapon that allows her to, proficiency bonus times per day, declare a melee weapon attack (with that sword) to be a critical hit as long as she has advantage on the attack. That way, even if she can't surprise the enemy because she's in a party with a loud fighter and cleric and a couple not-so-stealthy casters, she can still use her subclass feature.
In 5e 'Suprise' is a condition that affects creatures who're being ambushed in the first turn of combat. If their turn passes, the condition ends. They're no longer surprised. That's why he was saying that if they got a higher initiative, it completely ruins the whole set-up.
Surprise! The answer's No. The "Surprise round" is just a term we invented to refer to the first round of combat if creatures happen to have the surprised condition.
Funny thing. I had a similar concept but instead I focus Eldritch Blast. Assassinate does not specify weapon attack, merely just attacks. This means any warlock subclass can work. Though, hexblade's curse is quite valuable.
Another great video. I know you are always asking about new builds for new videos. This is one I am currently playing, Hexblade Samurai. I am an Eladrin and currently Level 4, two in each, Warlock and Fighter. Would ❤ to hear your take. Thank you.
Explain the "Guaranteed 8d8 of damage on top of everything else that we're doing" bit with eldritch smite? Is that just at higher levels when casting it with a higher level spell slot or is there something else that I am missing?
At 5th level, you can target two different creatures with Eldritch Blast. It stands to reason, since it's the same attack action, that you could get sneak and surprise damage on both, right?
When you mention using a bow as your pact weapon, does this mean you no longer have a melee weapon that takes advantage of your Charisma modifier since you can only have one bound at a time? Or do you flip back and forth, between ranged and melee "bindings", depending on the situation that day?
You can actually use a hand crossbow as your hexblade weapon instead of taking eldritch blast, as the weapon just needs to lack the two handed property to qualify.
Ugh surprise rounds are so cool but so frustrating to try to work with the rules WOTC gave us on that. I love this build though! The actor feat and mask of many faces is SPICY!!
I always wonder if there is a rule that prevents you from stacking Divine Smite and Eldritch Smite on the same attack. Otherwise that would be some next level damage on a crit. 💥🤔
And this is a nice build name I can get behind. Not all this lazy half-name nonsense that's found everywhere (sorlock, hexadin.. assblade?) Cool concept too :)
Where in the rules does it say you lose the surprised condition after your turn? Im looking it up and i only see that you cant move or take any actions during your first turn of combat and you cant take any reactions until that yurn ends. Im aware of the (false?) notion of losing the surprised condition but i cant find the source. You are still surprised during that round even after your turn.
You're right in that it isn't a regular condition. I believe that it is regarded that way because they aren't able to take reactions until after their first turn is over, which must people take as the surprise being over, because otherwise it never clarifies when it ends. This is what I got from the PHB though, there may be clarifications buried in some of the other books
one thing about the leveling progression of this build that annoys me is the fact that you get your first two invocations at (character) level 5, then you get your Pact Boon the next level and have to wait until character level 8 before you get a chance to take Improved Pact Weapon or Eldritch Smite (because they both require Pact of the Blade, which you don't get until level 6), and then another couple levels before you take the other one (and then, assuming you want to take Thirsting Blade for a second attack, that won't come online earlier than warlock level 9/character level 12). it just seems like you have to play sub-optimally for so long before everything starts coming together. It's cool if you are just rolling up a level 20, but it seems like actually playing the character from level 1 would be a clunky slog. that said, if my current level 19 character dies before the end of our campaign, i'm totally rolling this bad boy up for a replacement. :D
Its universally accepted by analysts of RAW that the Assassinate ability is crippled by the actual rules of 5e. There is no "surprise round" RAW. Its just the way a lot of tables play. The way Assassin Rogues, especially the Eldritch Assassin here, are normally allowed to act by DMs makes them S tier characters. However, RAW, makes them BAD, because you will rarely, if ever, get off your assassinate ability unless you win initiative. Of course, you should role initiative AFTER the surprise attack, as Sage recommends. The issue for me would be who would want to play with this character in a party. The assassin infiltrates, kills the boss, steals the macguffin, adventure complete!
There is no surprise condition. If you actually read RAW you are surprised if the attackers stealth is higher than yours. So what this really means is the assassin is way stronger than people realize. If the assassin gains surprise every attack it lands for that combat is a crit. The only way for someone that is surprised by an assassin to escape this is to run and stop combat. There is no surprise condition or surprise round you just are surprised. The sub class says if an assassin enemy is surprised ALL hits are crits. I like to think of it like this the assassin gets the jump on you now you are scrambling and back peddling to get away.
It does say that they are "surprised at the start of the encounter" implying that at some point during the encounter they are no longer surprised, but that would be up to the DM. You're correct that it isn't a condition as we usually think about it. Either way though, the wording around surprise needs to be tightened up to help avoid the confusion surrounding it.
@@DnD_Daily Crawford even states wrongly in a tweet that surprise ends after round 1 in PHB. I look at it like this I come home to a surprise party everyone jumps out yells surprise! For a the first few minutes my heart races and and I am speechless. But for the rest of the party I am surprised. I am in a state of surprise. My heart's calm I can talk again but still surprised. The assassin takes specific advantage of a state of being. I would say RAI is it is one round but RAW it is until combat ends.
I think you are misreading the RAW for surprised, cause frankly, the way you said you do surprised is pretty much how I've always seen it done. Party A sneaks up and attacks Party B without them noticing. This initiates what is commonly called a Surprise Round. This does require (RAW) that Party A's Stealth Check beats Party B's Passive Perception however. Attacks are declared by the ambushing party (Party A), initiative is rolled and the surprised party (Party B) remains surprised till the end of the First/Surprise Round. Unless they have some feature that prevents them from being surprised, like the Alert Feat, or Barbarians Feral Instincts. That said, I think I see where you ended up getting this confused. That is from the Assassins Assassinate Feature. "You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit." What I think you missed, is the period between the two lines. Meaning they are separate from each other. A creature is still surprised, even after their turn (in which as RAW, they can't do anything as they are surprised and do not know you are there), thus regardless of the initiative order, the attacking party all have advantage on their attacks against the surprised party for that First/Surprise Round. The part about the Assassin having Advantage against any creature that haven't acted yet, are for instances where they don't have surprise. In this case, your Bugbear, if he is able to sneak up on the enemy, would get his auto crit for the First/Surprise Round. Failing his Stealth Check however, he will have to roll a higher Initiative then the creature he was going to attack to have that First Round Advantage, though there would be no auto crit in that case, but can still apply Sneak Attack from the Advantage.
Actually, the way he stated it in the video is correct. "Surprise Round" is not a thing that exists, rules as written, because it doesn't account for the fact that different creatures can have different perception checks or handle surprise differently. As an example, I was DMing a session several months ago when a group of goblins attempted to surprise the party. I was halfway through the "surprise round" when 2 of the players pointed out that they had the Alert feat, meaning that the goblins couldn't actually surprise them (and thus their attacks didn't have advantage). As another example, I was playing a Barbarian when our party stirred up a bunch of undead. My Barbarian beat the enemy on initiative and went into a rage (Feral Instinct) before the undead could even attack, but the DM ruled that he couldn't use his action to attack because the undead hadn't actually appeared yet. The problem with that is that technically, the undead appearing would have been the thing that triggered initiative to be rolled, so it makes no sense for combat to start before the undead appeared. The better way for it to happen would have been that the undead appear from the ground where they are going to be, at which point initiative is rolled. The Barbarian goes first, rages, and attacks, after which the undead make their attacks, while the rest of the party is surprised until the end of their turns, and so on. Another commenter put in the rules correctly: Stealth vs. passive Perception to determine if the one side can succeed in sneaking up without the other side noticing. Then, initiative order determines when the surprised condition ends for a creature (at the end of their turn in the first round of combat). There are other ways that I would allow for the PCs to surprise an enemy: interrupt negotiation/conversation with an attack, for example, which I would do with a Sleight of Hand check vs. Insight. But the "Surprise Round" is not something that exists - and it actually causes more confusion than it might solve.
The part that you may have confused is the surprised condition, which in D&D 5e starts when you are surprised, but ends after your first turn in combat. So if they roll initiative higher than you, they take their turn before you and use that turn to remove the surprised condition
Ok, maybe I was the one a bit confused. Most DMs I've had seemed to favor the old Surprise Round rules from older editions and that kinda lead me to think that a surprised creature stays surprised till the end of the first round. That, and it often made more sense to me that they would for a few reasons. 1. To surprise a creature your stealth check has to be higher than there passive perception. Though if anyone in party A rolls lower than a targets passive perception, then they aren't surprised by anyone. 2. Being unable to take any actions on their turn means they can't make any active perception checks to try finding the hidden assailants that surprised them. 3. Rounds are 6 seconds long with everything supposedly happening at the same time within that small time window. That and there isn't really any specifically stated time that a creature stops being surprised other than them being able to make reactions after their turn. Though that could be them swinging/shooting at shadows. But it seems widely agreed that its at the end of the creatures first turn rather than the first round, though that does kinda make the Assassinate feature a bit useless if they have poor initiative. That said, there a a few things I may have missed. 1. Barbarians Feral Instincts actually doesn't prevent them from being surprised, though the Advantage on Initiative does help. They are just able to act and move after they Rage on their turn. 2. Some creatures in a party can be surprised while others aren't. So, @Chris Vossler the two players you had that have the Alert Feat, they wouldn't be surprised, but if the goblins rolled higher than the others passive perceptions then those would still be. 3. To get surprise on someone, your stealth has to beat their passive perception, so given that the surprised creature can't use their action to make an active perception check, the ambusher still has advantage for being an Unseen Attacker. So, you can still Sneak Attack, but no Assassinate. Actually, come to think of it... I think it's only the Assassin who actually makes any use of a creature actually being surprised. Everyone else only gets the benefit of being unseen attackers, even if the target goes before them.
“The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't.”
Yep. Dude completely overlooked this whole concept when he went on a several minute rant about how it’s initiative prevents surprise…. 😂
Assassin is a great example as to why surprise round should be a thing.
A 3 level dip into Gloom Stalker Ranger would benefit this build too. Extra damage die against a surprised creature, and extra attack against said creature, free darkvision or enhancing already existing darkvision, And the ability to not be seen by darkvision while hiding in shadows.
Crap baskets, also the bonus to initiative, which was my original thought but forgot to write it out lol
I very recently thought of a similar character, but it was a pure Warlock that takes all the sneaky invocations, to be the best non-rogue rogue in the party: the Eldritch Trickster.
Quite literally using smoke and mirrors, this Chainlock uses Relentless Hex to teleport to their flying familiar for infiltration, as well as some shenanigans with Thaumaturgy, the Actor feat and Voice of the Chain Master to not only speak through their familiar, but also make it really loud and sound like someone else, while being in a different room.
It's a heavy roleplay build, opting for invocations like Ghostly Gaze to case out buildings for things to steal, but a free teleport as long as you're near a window is ridiculous for getting in and out of anywhere!
I was just thinking earlier today about how it’s so hard to create a magical assassin that feels sneaky and deadly. I feel like taking Shadow Touched would be good on this build. Getting a free use of Invisibility could help set up those surprise attacks without draining precious spell slots. Inflict Wounds is also a spell that upcasts particularly well.
lovely concept! I always wondered if we can mix both sneak attack and smite together, but it has never occured to me that you can do it with warlock! Love the inspiration, love the content, keep it up!
Always prioritize Player's fun.
It's my rule.
Cool Concept!!!
I definitely homebrew a surprise round 🎉 especially for smaller groups without a tank/healer. Rewards them for being clever. You got me to comment! So I guess I should subscribe 😂
I went something similar, but focused more on the rogue part.
I used fallen Aasimar and phantom rogue to just throw necrotic everywhere and then subclass into hexblade for more crits and thoes beautiful hexes/smites ontop of it.
I dont know how its going to play but i do know it will be a lot of fun.
I built a character similar to this once. Never got to play it though, seems fun
I love the concept of this build! I would change one thing though. I would use a Whispers Bard instead of a Warlock. More Spells, greater versatility, the ability to (almost literally) become the enemies wife (if you killed her), and it synergizes perfectly with rogue. Yes, you wouldn't get the medium armor, but that can be adjusted as well.
Any creature who is surprised should automatically have their initiative set to 0.
You know, because they are surprised!
I still use surprise, but the compromise is it's a part round with an extra action, then any other movement or bonus action are taken off of your first round. I recently had a giant trap door spider surprise a player, then roll a 1 for initiative. That would be silly to have such an effective surprise just be negated when the situation and perception checks were failed badly by the player, and set up well by the monster, only to have an initiative roll scrap that build up. Cheers.
One issue with how you run surprise is that it reinforces "I said i attack first" to get a free hit on the enemy. It also teaches everyine in your party to always try to get a drop on the enemy for a free attack (which is kinda how surprise works anyway so no biggie, so long you dont run an extra "surprise round" after.)
3rd level assassin rogue on a scorlock bug bear is amazing as you can dish out up to 14 attacks in one round at advantage getting an additional 4d6 damage on top of being critical hits.
For a single sorcery point you can deal up to an additional 32d8 damage with eldritch blast.
I actually agree with the way it works RAW. If the opponent is surprised but beat, you on initiative it just means they were able to react in time to being attacked. Half the fun of building assassins is seeing how stupid you can get your initiative bonus to all but guarantee advantage on all attacks round 1. The auto crit part of assassinate is icing on the cake but assassin 3 is still a fantastic dip for any nova build. My issues with the assassin come later on as their higher-level features flat out suck.
PC's have a million ways to boost initiative so build the character to be good at the thing that lets their feature work, granted i find it odd that assassins don't get an initiative boost.
I like this build a lot, solid job, harengon is for sure the best race for it. You can already one shot a dragon with the damage this build can achieve, no need to go overkill with bugbear surprise damage too. Also bugbear makes more out of more attacks per round on round 1 so action surge immediately improves the build.
My version of this concept was 5 gloomstalker (adds extra attack and pass without trace) 3 assassin and 3 battlemaster. rest assassin if you get that far. It does more nova than this build but i love the charisma base infiltration this build adds plus the spellcasting.
If a player's enemy wins initiative, I would give it a turn, and as its action it would roll perception. On a failure it could move how it had planned without knowing of the player. And in that case the player would still get surprise.
I was planning out a level 12 build of 6 Fighter/6 Warlock so I could have Battlemaster maneuvers, extra attack, and the eldritch smites. No sneak attack but he'll be pretty burly and just have a lot of options. Hexblade really gives so many possibilities ha
So I guess Wizzards thinks everyone is honorable.
"Excuse me Goblin. I would like to engage you in combat. Please prepare yourself!"
I don't necessarily disagree RE: Assassin and Surprise, though I don't see it quite the same way as far as the surprised condition and the start of combat is concerned. My take on the surprised condition is that it's about whether the person is expecting whatever sets off combat. Some features and abilities mean that a character cannot be surprised (Barbarians with Feral Instinct, Alert Feat, Weapon of Warning, etc.). Those features should mean that the character can act during the first round of combat (those are PC abilities which you probably shouldn't give to NPCs with very few exceptions, but still) since there's a reason that they are going to be on high alert. At the beginning of combat, something happens to set everything off: someone draws a weapon, someone casts a spell, etc. All of those things are happening at the same time. If the enemy is surprised, then they aren't able to react in the first 6 seconds of combat; if the enemy is not surprised, then they are able to react to the trigger.
All of that is to say that my "fix" for the Assassin Rogue would be this: "Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against ONE CREATURE OF YOUR CHOICE DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF COMBAT. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that HAD THE surprised CONDITION AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT ROUND is a critical hit." I'm not as sure about the first change, though I like the limitation of an assassin choosing one target to take out in the first round. For the second change, the wording might need a tweak, but the idea is that it lets the assassin actually trigger their subclass feature a little more reliably, even if they lose in initiative, and it reflects the reality of combat that everything in a round is happening simultaneously.
The other thing I did for the Assassin Rogue in my campaign is to give her a magic weapon that allows her to, proficiency bonus times per day, declare a melee weapon attack (with that sword) to be a critical hit as long as she has advantage on the attack. That way, even if she can't surprise the enemy because she's in a party with a loud fighter and cleric and a couple not-so-stealthy casters, she can still use her subclass feature.
I have been looking for a templar assassin themed build for a long time
Returning daggers could be cool for this build to make it fit the theme
Isn’t there such thing as a surprise round???
Rules as written, there is no surprise round in 5E. There is the "Surprised" condition, however
In 5e 'Suprise' is a condition that affects creatures who're being ambushed in the first turn of combat. If their turn passes, the condition ends. They're no longer surprised. That's why he was saying that if they got a higher initiative, it completely ruins the whole set-up.
The simple answer is "no"
Surprise! The answer's No. The "Surprise round" is just a term we invented to refer to the first round of combat if creatures happen to have the surprised condition.
When did surprise round go away from D&D?!? Back in the day (2nd Ed) it was totally a thing.
Funny thing. I had a similar concept but instead I focus Eldritch Blast. Assassinate does not specify weapon attack, merely just attacks. This means any warlock subclass can work. Though, hexblade's curse is quite valuable.
Very nice ☕️
Another great video. I know you are always asking about new builds for new videos. This is one I am currently playing, Hexblade Samurai. I am an Eladrin and currently Level 4, two in each, Warlock and Fighter. Would ❤ to hear your take. Thank you.
Explain the "Guaranteed 8d8 of damage on top of everything else that we're doing" bit with eldritch smite? Is that just at higher levels when casting it with a higher level spell slot or is there something else that I am missing?
At 5th level, you can target two different creatures with Eldritch Blast. It stands to reason, since it's the same attack action, that you could get sneak and surprise damage on both, right?
Unfortunately, you cannot get sneak attack with a spell attack. Though I believe The auto crit would apply if both targets are surprised
When you mention using a bow as your pact weapon, does this mean you no longer have a melee weapon that takes advantage of your Charisma modifier since you can only have one bound at a time?
Or do you flip back and forth, between ranged and melee "bindings", depending on the situation that day?
What about a Swashbuckling Hexblade who uses a one hand sword, devil's sight and darkness. Pair it with a Changling. Any suggestion?
5:14 Are you married? Not that surprising lol (I mean the shanking not whether or not you’re married)!
You can actually use a hand crossbow as your hexblade weapon instead of taking eldritch blast, as the weapon just needs to lack the two handed property to qualify.
Ugh surprise rounds are so cool but so frustrating to try to work with the rules WOTC gave us on that. I love this build though! The actor feat and mask of many faces is SPICY!!
I always wonder if there is a rule that prevents you from stacking Divine Smite and Eldritch Smite on the same attack. Otherwise that would be some next level damage on a crit. 💥🤔
There isn't a rule against it! So could be some schnasty damage
And this is a nice build name I can get behind. Not all this lazy half-name nonsense that's found everywhere (sorlock, hexadin.. assblade?)
Cool concept too :)
Where in the rules does it say you lose the surprised condition after your turn?
Im looking it up and i only see that you cant move or take any actions during your first turn of combat and you cant take any reactions until that yurn ends.
Im aware of the (false?) notion of losing the surprised condition but i cant find the source.
You are still surprised during that round even after your turn.
As far as I know, surprised is not even a real condition in 5e. It's just how people have be explaining it to each other.
You're right in that it isn't a regular condition. I believe that it is regarded that way because they aren't able to take reactions until after their first turn is over, which must people take as the surprise being over, because otherwise it never clarifies when it ends. This is what I got from the PHB though, there may be clarifications buried in some of the other books
one thing about the leveling progression of this build that annoys me is the fact that you get your first two invocations at (character) level 5, then you get your Pact Boon the next level and have to wait until character level 8 before you get a chance to take Improved Pact Weapon or Eldritch Smite (because they both require Pact of the Blade, which you don't get until level 6), and then another couple levels before you take the other one (and then, assuming you want to take Thirsting Blade for a second attack, that won't come online earlier than warlock level 9/character level 12). it just seems like you have to play sub-optimally for so long before everything starts coming together. It's cool if you are just rolling up a level 20, but it seems like actually playing the character from level 1 would be a clunky slog.
that said, if my current level 19 character dies before the end of our campaign, i'm totally rolling this bad boy up for a replacement. :D
Its universally accepted by analysts of RAW that the Assassinate ability is crippled by the actual rules of 5e. There is no "surprise round" RAW. Its just the way a lot of tables play. The way Assassin Rogues, especially the Eldritch Assassin here, are normally allowed to act by DMs makes them S tier characters. However, RAW, makes them BAD, because you will rarely, if ever, get off your assassinate ability unless you win initiative. Of course, you should role initiative AFTER the surprise attack, as Sage recommends. The issue for me would be who would want to play with this character in a party. The assassin infiltrates, kills the boss, steals the macguffin, adventure complete!
There is no surprise condition. If you actually read RAW you are surprised if the attackers stealth is higher than yours. So what this really means is the assassin is way stronger than people realize. If the assassin gains surprise every attack it lands for that combat is a crit. The only way for someone that is surprised by an assassin to escape this is to run and stop combat. There is no surprise condition or surprise round you just are surprised. The sub class says if an assassin enemy is surprised ALL hits are crits. I like to think of it like this the assassin gets the jump on you now you are scrambling and back peddling to get away.
It does say that they are "surprised at the start of the encounter" implying that at some point during the encounter they are no longer surprised, but that would be up to the DM. You're correct that it isn't a condition as we usually think about it. Either way though, the wording around surprise needs to be tightened up to help avoid the confusion surrounding it.
@@DnD_Daily Crawford even states wrongly in a tweet that surprise ends after round 1 in PHB. I look at it like this I come home to a surprise party everyone jumps out yells surprise! For a the first few minutes my heart races and and I am speechless. But for the rest of the party I am surprised. I am in a state of surprise. My heart's calm I can talk again but still surprised. The assassin takes specific advantage of a state of being. I would say RAI is it is one round but RAW it is until combat ends.
I think you are misreading the RAW for surprised, cause frankly, the way you said you do surprised is pretty much how I've always seen it done. Party A sneaks up and attacks Party B without them noticing. This initiates what is commonly called a Surprise Round. This does require (RAW) that Party A's Stealth Check beats Party B's Passive Perception however. Attacks are declared by the ambushing party (Party A), initiative is rolled and the surprised party (Party B) remains surprised till the end of the First/Surprise Round. Unless they have some feature that prevents them from being surprised, like the Alert Feat, or Barbarians Feral Instincts.
That said, I think I see where you ended up getting this confused. That is from the Assassins Assassinate Feature.
"You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit."
What I think you missed, is the period between the two lines. Meaning they are separate from each other. A creature is still surprised, even after their turn (in which as RAW, they can't do anything as they are surprised and do not know you are there), thus regardless of the initiative order, the attacking party all have advantage on their attacks against the surprised party for that First/Surprise Round. The part about the Assassin having Advantage against any creature that haven't acted yet, are for instances where they don't have surprise.
In this case, your Bugbear, if he is able to sneak up on the enemy, would get his auto crit for the First/Surprise Round. Failing his Stealth Check however, he will have to roll a higher Initiative then the creature he was going to attack to have that First Round Advantage, though there would be no auto crit in that case, but can still apply Sneak Attack from the Advantage.
Actually, the way he stated it in the video is correct. "Surprise Round" is not a thing that exists, rules as written, because it doesn't account for the fact that different creatures can have different perception checks or handle surprise differently. As an example, I was DMing a session several months ago when a group of goblins attempted to surprise the party. I was halfway through the "surprise round" when 2 of the players pointed out that they had the Alert feat, meaning that the goblins couldn't actually surprise them (and thus their attacks didn't have advantage). As another example, I was playing a Barbarian when our party stirred up a bunch of undead. My Barbarian beat the enemy on initiative and went into a rage (Feral Instinct) before the undead could even attack, but the DM ruled that he couldn't use his action to attack because the undead hadn't actually appeared yet. The problem with that is that technically, the undead appearing would have been the thing that triggered initiative to be rolled, so it makes no sense for combat to start before the undead appeared. The better way for it to happen would have been that the undead appear from the ground where they are going to be, at which point initiative is rolled. The Barbarian goes first, rages, and attacks, after which the undead make their attacks, while the rest of the party is surprised until the end of their turns, and so on.
Another commenter put in the rules correctly: Stealth vs. passive Perception to determine if the one side can succeed in sneaking up without the other side noticing. Then, initiative order determines when the surprised condition ends for a creature (at the end of their turn in the first round of combat). There are other ways that I would allow for the PCs to surprise an enemy: interrupt negotiation/conversation with an attack, for example, which I would do with a Sleight of Hand check vs. Insight. But the "Surprise Round" is not something that exists - and it actually causes more confusion than it might solve.
The part that you may have confused is the surprised condition, which in D&D 5e starts when you are surprised, but ends after your first turn in combat. So if they roll initiative higher than you, they take their turn before you and use that turn to remove the surprised condition
Ok, maybe I was the one a bit confused. Most DMs I've had seemed to favor the old Surprise Round rules from older editions and that kinda lead me to think that a surprised creature stays surprised till the end of the first round.
That, and it often made more sense to me that they would for a few reasons.
1. To surprise a creature your stealth check has to be higher than there passive perception. Though if anyone in party A rolls lower than a targets passive perception, then they aren't surprised by anyone.
2. Being unable to take any actions on their turn means they can't make any active perception checks to try finding the hidden assailants that surprised them.
3. Rounds are 6 seconds long with everything supposedly happening at the same time within that small time window.
That and there isn't really any specifically stated time that a creature stops being surprised other than them being able to make reactions after their turn. Though that could be them swinging/shooting at shadows. But it seems widely agreed that its at the end of the creatures first turn rather than the first round, though that does kinda make the Assassinate feature a bit useless if they have poor initiative.
That said, there a a few things I may have missed.
1. Barbarians Feral Instincts actually doesn't prevent them from being surprised, though the Advantage on Initiative does help. They are just able to act and move after they Rage on their turn.
2. Some creatures in a party can be surprised while others aren't. So, @Chris Vossler the two players you had that have the Alert Feat, they wouldn't be surprised, but if the goblins rolled higher than the others passive perceptions then those would still be.
3. To get surprise on someone, your stealth has to beat their passive perception, so given that the surprised creature can't use their action to make an active perception check, the ambusher still has advantage for being an Unseen Attacker. So, you can still Sneak Attack, but no Assassinate.
Actually, come to think of it... I think it's only the Assassin who actually makes any use of a creature actually being surprised. Everyone else only gets the benefit of being unseen attackers, even if the target goes before them.
One thing you Can Do IS using either blinding smite or banishing smite from the hexblade additional spells with a bow