This Guy Knows Why You're Still Bad
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- I have descended upon you all to bitch and moan once more.
My Twitter: / hqrubbish
Thanks to the patrons who helped make this video possible.
Kaijuninja
KBD
SherlockHolmesBoy
Cinroth
Lyoh
Razz
#Essay #Turns #FGC
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Sounds like the Pareto 80-20 rule. Do the simple thing that works 80% of the time. When you finally encounter an exception, explore it and handle it accordingly.
Sounds interesting, will give it a look!
I got an A+ on my thesis so now all of you have to be nice to me.
I think that's a rule or something.
Congrats :D
How are you not super popular yet? Your videos are really really good and very fun to watch
Perhaps it's my intimidatingly good looks.
Great video man, you earned a sub
Glad to have you
As someone who plays a lot of turn-based games and is kinda trying to get into fighting games, I can safely say that uh, they... They're quite diferent.
I guess "turn" is an easy concept to get, but the word seems to bring an idea to mind that is not exactly the right one. I feel that something like "advantage" would be a better way to call it, but then it could get mixed up with frame advantage. Maybe call it "momentum"? I don't know, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that calling "your time to do your thing" a "turn" makes it sound a lot slower then it actually is. if anything, a fighting game is a lot more of an RTS then a trun-based game, with you having to make constant decisions, adapting to what you know of your oponent and even the little downtime you have is spent preparing for the next move.
Maybe if fighting games were indeed turn-besed I'd be better at them? Probably not, but who knows?
I agree. To me, the term also turns your opponents reactionary actions into something "illegal" which I think is unhealthy.
The beginner fighting game experience gets nicer the sooner you accept the game for what it is, instead of trying to morph it into your concept of what it should be (at least that was it for me).
So not encouraging the latter behaviour is probably a good idea.
could you expand on that? im a beginner here, and I think i know what you are getting at, but want to know more.
@@hypebrain4150 As people learn more about their game, they may "find" ways to always win that at first seem right, but never quite get them there. So when that fails, they tend to get frustrated and put the blame on things not working like they "should". I've been there.
The thing is, fighting games are not a single player game. There is no absolute answer for anything. Nothing is unbeatable (with VERY few exceptions) and nothing is unfair. You can't change your opponents and you can't change the game, you can only change your strategy and try your best. And so, that opponent and game you can't control will always be able to make you lose, no matter what.
Darwin Ding made an incredible video on 'The Myth of Perfectly Safe Moves' that talks about this same idea and I think presents a viable solution/alternative to the 'turns' simplification, drawing from the different mindset that comes from a Smash background. I highly recommend it, I think it pairs well with this video - this video breaks down the 'practical' harms of simplifying to 'turns' (vitriol between players, and sticking to a false set of 'rules' that limit how a new player believes the game 'should' be played), whereas the Smash video talks about the 'abstract' component (what is the game theory of 'turns' and advantage, in a game where nearly every option is minus on shield). May well be a good starting point for cultivating a new 'lie' to replace the 'turns' simplification.
I've seen it, great channel, great video, big fan!
Ngl. The term “turn” has pissed me off since the day I saw it. I’m not gonna bother explaining why, as most of the frustration is in the video.
just want to say great videos keep up the good work
dude rub your animation skills are incrdible! also as always thanks for video i got educated a lil bit more again
Backdash is referenced in this sense in mk11 a lot as its part of why jacqui is a bit of an oppressive character. Even when she 'loses her turn' she can backdash out of basically anything and whiff punish.
Cool video
Edit - I am happy I eventually realized not to take virtually anything I read to heart. I noticed I was getting angry because something 'wasn't supposed to work'... But it did. Then the anger started to be at the wrong people lol. Now I'm trying not to get angry so much.
That's interesting to hear, ngl NRS scene is definitely one I'm not super familiar with (especially post MKX).
@@HQRubbish that seems to be unfortunately common, I just crossed the nrs/fgc barrier from the other side and have found a torrent of new people and perspectives, far more than I ever would have imagined. It's great, I still play mk but my interest in the genre expanded recently so here we are.
I like your video essay things.
I'm a pretty firm believer in telling people the ugly truth, even if it is over their head at the time of telling them. Humans develop habits very quickly and telling someone "yeah just DP if they wont get off you" they might develop a very bad habit of ALWAYS doing wake up DP, then they get blocked and f*cking explode. After the match they turn to you and say "wtf dude I thought mash DP was a get out of jail free card" and who's fault is it at that point? The beginner that was explained only a partial truth or the veteran that over simplified a very nuanced situation.
Most people that aren't literal children can dig a little bit below the surface and understand when taught that RPS interactions mean there is (almost) never a defacto correct answer to the situation being presented. It's ok to throw people in the deep end of the pool to see if they sink or swim on their own because, lets be real, it IS just a videogame. It's ok to not understand everything and sometimes you will just be wrong even if it doesn't make sense why and thats fine, but the more we withhold information the more confused the new player will be when things deviate from the oversimplification they were fed
If the simplified explanation was emphasized as a begginer friendly thing and that there are exceptions but it's unnecessary to talk about that FOR NOW, things would be more ok probably
I know a few people who need to hear this, especially that "wtf I got launched for doing something completely safe!!!" is not a thing.
I'm spreading the good word!
3 - 2 = impossible
Funny what you can miss during tens of hours of editing.
2:45 Me when fighting Hwoarang... monkaS
Sick vid Rubbish!!
Phew! Your editing skills are dope fresh.
Entertaining as all hell too.
Keep it up, brrraaaaah.
This video feels like a fighting game tutorial from a fever dream. I learned, but damn my ADHD has panicked the entire time.
Welcome to the channel
I really enjoyed this video and I appreciate the fact that you tackled talking about a very strange topic. Friends of mine have asked for advice on taking turns before and the only response I had ready was something along the lines of press a button when they're negative or you'll just know when both of which arent really very helpful to newer players. I hope we can all figure out a better way to break this type of stuff down so that newer players can more easily digest and understand neutral and advantage states. Basically, I liked the video a lot and I hope you keep making great content like this.
7:58 lmao 🤣 This may be your best vid.
😉
1:18
**2-3=impossible*
"Turn" is definitely an oversimplification of an abstract concept. I first came across the term around 2010 or so.
It's a term that was initially designed to explain how blockstrings work. I think people have honed in on the concept too much.
Overall, I agree with the base concept of this discussion. People tend to hone way too much on specific terms and take them as law.
Hög kvalité som alltid
This reminds me of Brian_F's video about spacing. He brings up how a very minus move can still be safe if you are too far away to get hit with anything. A move can be -40, but if it takes 50 frames to get to you after, then you good fam.
I hear that guy says some smart things sometimes.
The way spacing relates to how safe a move is is one of the few things that even a Smash player would get about fighting games. It doesn't matter if almost all your moves are disjointed if you do them so close to the player who is blocking them that you could be hugging them.
@@HQRubbish lol i do that all the time :D throwing launch punishable launcher at tip range so they cant punish me back in most cases :D
How is this video has only 3k views? WTF
Perhaps it is haunted
6:11 I personally like the terms respect and disrespect because it conveys some of the same concepts as turns but there's more room for subtlety. For example if I keep frame trapping your mash on my plus frames I can say that you have to respect me there, but if I am repeatedly getting plus frames without spending a resource, that probably means that you are over respecting me, and you should disrespect my plus frames somewhere.
I feel like it conveys the same concept as "turns" without the absoluteness that term implies, and also ties nicely into explaining that respect must be earned, and with respect you can "get away" with things that would normally get punished.
I had never heard of this concept of "turns" in fighting games. Who teaches it? Pretty much every fighting game channel and discussion I've seen talks about frame data and hitboxes at the very least.
as a fan of many turn based games, when i started getting into fight games my friends tried to explain frame data as "the game is turn based" which immediately bugged. party bc i had already dipped my toes into frame data and partly bc they insisted that this was not a metaphor but hard fact. tekken 7, according to them, was as close to being turned based as a game could be
Remember kids, lotta highs are “safe” moves that you can kill. Don’t let those dirty mishimers get away with it
I cannot believe how similar this editing is to NFS Unbound Lmao, I love it
If u want clear turns u should play yomi hustle 😎
When i had turns explained, the person explained that having a turn means having an advantage, not absolutely dominating the person into doing what i want. There's still a possibility of your enemy getting out of the disadvantageous position in a way that allows them to punish you, aka what some people may call turn stealing.
My general belief when it comes to "dealing with situations" is that you have players that are GOOD and you have players that are BAD at those situations.
The players who will see right through your shenanigans are going to need a different tactic (if you can think of one).
But, on the flip side... even simply AVOIDING the players who ruin your playstyle (while it might form bad habits), can at least teach you that NOT EVERYONE IS A FREAK OF NATURE like the guys who constantly play at high level. That is to say... if you're only here to have fun, you should play against players who are ALSO ONLY HERE TO HAVE FUN.
But I will say this: playing against good players long enough will reveal their weaknesses... that is, IF THEY LET YOU PLAY THEM LONG ENOUGH.
Cowards who hit and run are common these days.
I mean at the end of the day, in a given situation each player has certain options that interact with the other player's options in a certain way, and so the players that are good at those situations really just know their options.
On this topic I prefer thinking about it as knowledge checks, as in if I do a certain thing to you, do you know your options to interact with me (do you have the knowledge), or can I just keep throwing paper because you don't know how to throw scissors?
@@ividboy7616 My experience with "knowledge checks" is that players will do things that "have no option of escape", meaning the knowledge check itself is that you "shouldn't be in that situation in the first place". It's a rude awakening to how cruel some players can be.