While I respect the number of games tested, im surprised you didn't test smash ultimate (which has motion inputs for Street fighter characters) just to see if Sakurai did anything weird. i know you were probably focused on covering "real" FGs for the sake of being right on the internet, but man, if I was making this video, id just be too damn curious.
I mistakenly uploaded this to a short-lived 2nd channel in my discomfort of not doing a video that required 3 months of back-breaking work. Please don't shame me too much.
Found your channel through your incredible vid in baberuthlesses channel and I’ve been binging all your vids today and they are all so incredibly written and edited
I'm surprised there wasn't any mention of Super Turbo's deeply disturbing input system. The timing window for fireballs is somewhere between 7 frames and 14 frames per input, because the game has a random amount of leniency. So, if your fireball doesn't come out, it's actually because the game secretly hates you.
I think all CPS2 fighting games have that random window on the motion inputs. The timing window in SFA3's is always between 10 and 18 frames, if I remember correctly. Although the extremes are less common. It's usually around 14. They also only accept the strict inputs. No simplified aliases there.
I actually debated putting it in! Though I decided against it seeing as the lowest number the game will accept on the scale isn't really a particularly noteworthy one in terms of speed. There are other interesting things about input speed to consider with certain arcade titles as well, like game speed toggles and the like, but I decided to opt for brevity in this specific video. Thanks for watching!
@@HQRubbish Yeah, the implementation Capcom used for Turbo speeds in several of their games can lead to inputs being lost. I remember a Capcom dev tried to claim otherwise, only for someone else to use emulation to prove that it was true. And it critically mattered in one of the Alpha games, as it randomly made reversals impossible?
@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN The variable speed setting will always come with broken inputs, it's not a ST problem and there's nothing to be done about that. The only simple way to change the game speed is by skipping frames.Bootleggers started the trend with the Rainbow Edition machines and Capcom had to copy it. Theoretically you could have multiple speeds, each with their own set of frame data but of course that's not realistic at all.
That was very cool video, thank you! One little factual error though. When you calculate slowest accepted execution time for the fireball you do it as if you're waiting before doing 1st input. You don't have to do it. There are 3 gaps between 4 inputs meaning Garou is 48 frames = 0.8s
You have _NO_ idea how much it adds to the "physicality" (the best word I have here) of what it feels like to perform a fireball motion when you have the sound clicks for the direction inputs during the showcase portion. Tekken really were innovating when they came up with the "demo the move or combo while having the input / commands make noise" feature present in their various games' training mode Tldr: this video makes my brain produce the feel good chemicals
The Paul deathfist input (tested only TK3 and TK7) works with 26RP as long as 6 and RP are pressed in separate frames and 5 gets skipped. The DOA series from DOA3 (2001) started accepting the 26 shortcut for 236 moves. Have some input leniency details for Hayabusa 236P extracted from DOA6: CMD_KEY(LV_D) CMD_KEY(LV_R) CMD_TIME(16) CMD_KEY(BT_P) Oh and there's Modern inputs in SF6, does it count? I'm sorry, little one. 🗿
Some further answers to #1: -Some games let you input the button for your special very slightly before completing the motion. Xrd does this, as does Strive iirc. -Some vintage KOF titles achieve something kind of similar to the above because they artificially delay all your button inputs relative to directions. -Koihime Enbu and its successive versions let you 636 for fireballs. This does not apply to 214 specials. It also allows 323 for DP specials and you can shortcut its universal super motion. I like this one a lot - it completely resolves QC vs DP issues without forcing any additional input time and makes reaction EX fireballs very snappy even from a walk or dash. -Speaking of KOF, 239 fireballs are a thing in XV. All of these allow 236 of course.
Psychic Force has a pretty unique input system, a move with a QCF input can be done in any direction from any point and it only cares that you make a 90 degree input, also the buffer itself can be changed in the controls menu for each player separately.
My actual reaction to seeing this video on my home page. "Perpetual motion input? Seems interesting. I'll watch it later. Oh shit, it's Rubbish?" *click*
tbh in the case of fireballs you are right. but in terms of DP there is so many problems with the "simplification" of DP inputs. to the point where whenever input shortcuts being a problem is being talked about. odds are people are refering to DP's and walk forward fireballs rather than the 236 fireball we all know and love today. as you mentioned getting specials that you don't want.. sucks. in old games walk forward fireball is just... walk forward into fireball. but in every modern game if i play it after an extended time of playing say 2 turbo. i will get accidental DP's ALOT. to a point where i question my own inputs. nope 6 236 will give you DP. meaning that in an attempt to simplify inputs. walk forward fireball goes from 6 236 to 6 41236. kinda silly. still i appreciate the research done into this. it was very interesting. also HFTF and street fighter EX being mentioned is always great to see.
Fighting Game inputs have definitely seen pretty bonkers variance of the years, that is 100% true. It just doesn't seem to hold true specifically to the QCF.
@@HQRubbishyea that sounds right. QCF motions seem to be relatively unphased when compared to DP inputs. devs probably thought the Z motion was the main gatekeeper in fighting games lol.
I fucking hate this in Strive and SF6. In SF6 you get a DP when trying to walk forward and throw a fireball, and in Strive I play Sol who has an overlapping DP and QCF input for his K, meaning in combo's where you need a QCF K after a 6S, you need to either do a HCF K, or go specifically through neutral after 6S, which is not always super precise.
This was the main thing swirling around in my head in this video and I think an aspect the commenter is right on, if intentionally or not. Just like you said, depending on the game the difficulty of pulling off a QCF from a forward walk (or dash) varies wildly from my experience with a lot of games turning it into a 623 instead if you don't clear the input buffer by going neutral (or holding 6 towards the end). Definitely annoying in Strive, but older games like hisoutensoku also have this problem. So in that sense and from that perspective, you could definitely argue not all QCFs are equal across games, if you want to be really pedantic. Whether or not it was the intention, it definitely impacts the QCF.
This has been like that in KOF for 20 years, it's more like a feature at this point, kinda like the many, many ways the game let's you cancel a simple 426X or 6246X
*puts on glasses* well, acfuawwy Pauls deathfist is not a fireball motion per say, since it's firstly makes him enter a forward sway, out of which he can chose to do deathfist earlier or later, with the damage being higher the later you press a button. So again, technically, Paul doesn't have a fireball, he has a window for fairy balls (that came out wrong...)
Yo, this editing is pretty intense, huge props on that! The only aspects that still need work in my opinion are your mic quality and script delivery. I dunno it's either that you talk too slow or the script itself could've been made a little tighter or maybe both? But those are minor nitpicks, otherwise the video is impressively well-crafted and I have nothing but respect for all the work you put into it ✌
This is one of the reasons why, despite growing up with Street Fighter and still loving it to this day, I will always prefer Smash. Smash is, despite what anyone says, an actual serious fighting game. The series proves that you don't need traditional fighting game inputs to make an incredibly deep, competitive, and rewarding experience that will stand the test of time. But, I do like to ⬇️ ↘️ ➡️ 👊 someone on occasion.
you are probably right about the input speed of tekken's Paul death fist move (i don't know but trust you for this) but you forgot that it is actually a stance move in tekken to do the quarter circle with Paul (also forward not just backwards) so the window to hit the 2 button is very lenient because you are in a stance mode the entire time he is crouch dashing, so yes you might have to input fast if u want the fastest possible input but you can delay a whole lot and it still comes out because of the few stance options available. look at it like doing an electric with Kazuya versus a regular wind god fist is what i would compare it too in this case.
Good video, sorry for the wall of text down below. I appreciate the time you took to get this data but I have questions. What's the point? I'm not trying to be malicious, I like to hear the opinions of people about fighting game inputs. For example, you discarded the games that let you skip the diagonal. What do you think about games that do such shortcuts? From the video I could see you're not too fond of them. Why? From the miniature and title I thought this video was about the importance of the QC motion. Not that what I watched wasn't good, but it wasn't what I expected. It felt as if I had to know that this input is super important. But, other than "because it's been done since SFII", why is it so important? Why is it so important to make it a quarter circle instead of down > forward? It's questions like these that I find interesting. Anyway, if you read up to this point, thank you.
@@HQRubbish understandable, easy content is easy content (well the investigation you did wasn't exactly what I'd call easy content but you know what I mean) I just dropped these as things that could spark an interesting debate. Either way, good luck and good job :D
While games have different input windows for a a fireball, I would make the hypothesis that none of them prevent you from doing the motion as fast as possible.
I guess it depends on if the game checks your input at the framerate it runs at (so every 1/60 of a second for a 60 fps game) or if it cheks the inputs more frequently, whenether possible, regardless of framerate. I heard that different games use different methods, though I'm not entirely sure.
Well your hypothesis is wrong as most games in the genre only allow one input per frame. And you need at least 3 inputs for a qcf. I can't even name one game that doesn't work this way.
@@Basarapoil i believe the original comment is going off the idea that doing a qcf in 3 frames is the limit, so you went as fast as possible from the game's perspective. You could input faster than a frame but thats faster than what the game is checking, so 3 frames is as fast as you can go. I think the commenter was saying that there isnt a game that lets do do a qcf in 3 frames, but reject you because you did it too fast. Also, EFZ has a subframe system, letting you input faster than a displayed frame, but that's whatever
Excellent video, as always! But I really find it a shame it's missing one critical component: Input priority. While the priority of the fireball input over other special inputs doesn't affect the execution of the fireball itself, how the games treat that priority, and how they allow players to surcomvent the rules in-place, will greatly alter how the fireball _feels_ to do, so it would have been nice to see this subject included.
Heyo, thanks for watching. I suppose I could have added a part where input priority was mentioned, but in general most FG's operate under the same principle where QCF motion are given the lowest input priority in terms of special moves. Meaning that half circles and dragon punches will win out if clashes occur.
When you factor in that most people are fast enough to QCF in any game, yeah, there honestly aren’t any notable differences in how you fireball in each game. It is what it is.
Toshinden 4/Subaru may be inconsequential when it comes to input buffer and as an actual fighting game, but it has the absolute best minigames I've ever seen in a fighter. Tekken Ball and Bowl got NOTHING on Puella's Egg.
Only game I can think of where a fireball motions feels much different is SF1 since you basically had to be frame perfect on every input in the notion. Even the ones with extra leniency can still be done with faster inputs and still come out. But in SF1, you had to be exact.
I used to believe that, but a quick test in MAME shows otherwise. It looks like SF1 is surprisingly lenient *only for direction inputs.* What kills SF1 is how the game handles *button inputs.* The first issue is that the fireball doesn't activate with the button press, it activates only with the button release. The second issue is that the button input window is much smaller than the direction input window, you have to release Punch no more than two frames after the game registered the Forward input.
I just hope Motion Inputs never go away from 2D Style Fighting Games. Even though some of these MF'ers are trying to get rid of them. They're the most enjoyable aspect to me about Fighting Games. Project L can suck a 🍆 for not having Motion Inputs.
One place that fireball motions do differ between games (even within the same series) on, and one where the timing window becomes more relevant (due to needing to contain a jump input and prejump the differences are larger proportionally) is how TK-able they are. Venom's Mad Struggle j.236S/H/D in GGXXAC+R is much easier to TK than Mad Struggle j.236S/H in GGXrdR2. But I don't know how much of the difference is in the motion input itself and how much is in the games leniency for TKing it.
Similar to that are the KoF games that have input priority where you MUST TK to get a dash fireball or else a DP comes out. Same with going from a forward command normal into a fireball. Re:KoF13 combo challenges.
I am only 6 ish minutes in so mabye it will be mentioned (in which case I shall edit this) but, an important aspect of motion inputs that varies between fighting games is not only the gates that need to be hit but also the duration that a input will be stored in the memory. This affects how quickly a input must be done as well how easy something is to hit confirm (among others). Edit: It is mention. :D although it doesn't go in to the technical details as much as I would like.
I remembered it that way, but I just tested it in MAME and found it behaved differently than I'd believed. SF1 appears to be relatively lenient with the direction input. The issues come from how it handles the button input. The fireball only activates on button *release* and you have to release the button no more than two frames after inputting Forward.
am i missing something or are the conversions from frames to seconds all wrong? like, how can a 59 frames move be 4 seconds when the game runs at 60fps? wouldnt it be 1 second?
I find it funny how there are forum crusades for/against modern and classic in SF6. While in Granblue Rising, it's: Yes, one button fireballs and supers exist; yes, everybody uses them. The topic was debated only for the first week and then it died out. (And yes, I should really be talking about that under Controllers video. But the game just wasn't out then)
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While I respect the number of games tested, im surprised you didn't test smash ultimate (which has motion inputs for Street fighter characters) just to see if Sakurai did anything weird. i know you were probably focused on covering "real" FGs for the sake of being right on the internet, but man, if I was making this video, id just be too damn curious.
You win Smoofmaster... you win.
ruclips.net/video/5r9Lz78h9Co/видео.html
Seems to me like they were trying to limit the scope to actual fighting games in this video.
I mistakenly uploaded this to a short-lived 2nd channel in my discomfort of not doing a video that required 3 months of back-breaking work. Please don't shame me too much.
i like angry rubbish
Shame shame
Found your channel through your incredible vid in baberuthlesses channel and I’ve been binging all your vids today and they are all so incredibly written and edited
Same here! Banger channel
Welcome to the gang
I'm surprised there wasn't any mention of Super Turbo's deeply disturbing input system.
The timing window for fireballs is somewhere between 7 frames and 14 frames per input, because the game has a random amount of leniency. So, if your fireball doesn't come out, it's actually because the game secretly hates you.
I think all CPS2 fighting games have that random window on the motion inputs.
The timing window in SFA3's is always between 10 and 18 frames, if I remember correctly.
Although the extremes are less common. It's usually around 14.
They also only accept the strict inputs. No simplified aliases there.
I actually debated putting it in! Though I decided against it seeing as the lowest number the game will accept on the scale isn't really a particularly noteworthy one in terms of speed. There are other interesting things about input speed to consider with certain arcade titles as well, like game speed toggles and the like, but I decided to opt for brevity in this specific video. Thanks for watching!
@@HQRubbish Yeah, the implementation Capcom used for Turbo speeds in several of their games can lead to inputs being lost. I remember a Capcom dev tried to claim otherwise, only for someone else to use emulation to prove that it was true. And it critically mattered in one of the Alpha games, as it randomly made reversals impossible?
To think there are still people who hold up Super Turbo as the bastion of "when fighting games were real and pure and honest" with shite like that
@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN
The variable speed setting will always come with broken inputs, it's not a ST problem and there's nothing to be done about that.
The only simple way to change the game speed is by skipping frames.Bootleggers started the trend with the Rainbow Edition machines and Capcom had to copy it.
Theoretically you could have multiple speeds, each with their own set of frame data but of course that's not realistic at all.
That was very cool video, thank you!
One little factual error though. When you calculate slowest accepted execution time for the fireball you do it as if you're waiting before doing 1st input. You don't have to do it. There are 3 gaps between 4 inputs meaning Garou is 48 frames = 0.8s
You are of course (quite vexingly) 100% correct. Let's chalk it up to poobrain and be glad it doesn't actually change any of the comparisons.
And then there's SF6, where you're just playing footsies, crouch spamming, and instead of doing a fireball you accidentally do a super
You have _NO_ idea how much it adds to the "physicality" (the best word I have here) of what it feels like to perform a fireball motion when you have the sound clicks for the direction inputs during the showcase portion.
Tekken really were innovating when they came up with the "demo the move or combo while having the input / commands make noise" feature present in their various games' training mode
Tldr: this video makes my brain produce the feel good chemicals
You're consistently putting out some of the best fighting game think pieces on the platform. Here's hoping for your channel's growth and success!
where's TJ "Henry" Yoshi to tell us a fireball input is a fireball input
Riktigt fint med texten på svarta tavlan
wtf bro is gorgeous? since when did we let the FGC get this handsome???
great vid, your editing is really top notch
Incredible, engaging and entertaining deep dive into something most people probably wouldn't bother, this video was great!
alsoyou'rereallypretty
The Paul deathfist input (tested only TK3 and TK7) works with 26RP as long as 6 and RP are pressed in separate frames and 5 gets skipped.
The DOA series from DOA3 (2001) started accepting the 26 shortcut for 236 moves. Have some input leniency details for Hayabusa 236P extracted from DOA6:
CMD_KEY(LV_D)
CMD_KEY(LV_R)
CMD_TIME(16)
CMD_KEY(BT_P)
Oh and there's Modern inputs in SF6, does it count?
I'm sorry, little one. 🗿
@@WAZAAAAA-Are you doing this to me because I wouldn't play Poison mirrors with you that one time? 😶
@@HQRubbish Reality is often disappointing. 🗿
Imagine being so wrong that Rubbish willingly boots up VF5FS.
Marking this down as a massive w for yvngdoffy.
2024 is the year of yvngdoffy
love your content! thanks for the upload :)
This is petty, and I love it
Some further answers to #1:
-Some games let you input the button for your special very slightly before completing the motion. Xrd does this, as does Strive iirc.
-Some vintage KOF titles achieve something kind of similar to the above because they artificially delay all your button inputs relative to directions.
-Koihime Enbu and its successive versions let you 636 for fireballs. This does not apply to 214 specials. It also allows 323 for DP specials and you can shortcut its universal super motion. I like this one a lot - it completely resolves QC vs DP issues without forcing any additional input time and makes reaction EX fireballs very snappy even from a walk or dash.
-Speaking of KOF, 239 fireballs are a thing in XV.
All of these allow 236 of course.
Psychic Force has a pretty unique input system, a move with a QCF input can be done in any direction from any point and it only cares that you make a 90 degree input, also the buffer itself can be changed in the controls menu for each player separately.
is it just me or does the webcam hold one frame consistently? Like some sort of rhythmic microstutter
ye its fucked (and never to be used again)
@@HQRubbish i was waiting for some kind of big brain analogy between the stuttering of the webcam and input leniency
If you want to be nice to me you can still imagine that.
banger video new favorite channel
The editing is always top notch, even on these smaller videos❤Great vid love your work!❤❤
This was a delightful and informative video. Thanks mate for the fun watch.
My actual reaction to seeing this video on my home page.
"Perpetual motion input? Seems interesting. I'll watch it later. Oh shit, it's Rubbish?" *click*
I hope this video is better than that last one. :D fireballs are such a deep and nuanced mechanic.
love your videos man
great as always
The 4 second fireball hates us 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
tbh in the case of fireballs you are right. but in terms of DP there is so many problems with the "simplification" of DP inputs. to the point where whenever input shortcuts being a problem is being talked about. odds are people are refering to DP's and walk forward fireballs rather than the 236 fireball we all know and love today. as you mentioned getting specials that you don't want.. sucks. in old games walk forward fireball is just... walk forward into fireball. but in every modern game if i play it after an extended time of playing say 2 turbo. i will get accidental DP's ALOT. to a point where i question my own inputs. nope 6 236 will give you DP. meaning that in an attempt to simplify inputs. walk forward fireball goes from 6 236 to 6 41236. kinda silly.
still i appreciate the research done into this. it was very interesting. also HFTF and street fighter EX being mentioned is always great to see.
Fighting Game inputs have definitely seen pretty bonkers variance of the years, that is 100% true. It just doesn't seem to hold true specifically to the QCF.
@@HQRubbishyea that sounds right. QCF motions seem to be relatively unphased when compared to DP inputs. devs probably thought the Z motion was the main gatekeeper in fighting games lol.
I fucking hate this in Strive and SF6. In SF6 you get a DP when trying to walk forward and throw a fireball, and in Strive I play Sol who has an overlapping DP and QCF input for his K, meaning in combo's where you need a QCF K after a 6S, you need to either do a HCF K, or go specifically through neutral after 6S, which is not always super precise.
This was the main thing swirling around in my head in this video and I think an aspect the commenter is right on, if intentionally or not. Just like you said, depending on the game the difficulty of pulling off a QCF from a forward walk (or dash) varies wildly from my experience with a lot of games turning it into a 623 instead if you don't clear the input buffer by going neutral (or holding 6 towards the end). Definitely annoying in Strive, but older games like hisoutensoku also have this problem.
So in that sense and from that perspective, you could definitely argue not all QCFs are equal across games, if you want to be really pedantic. Whether or not it was the intention, it definitely impacts the QCF.
This has been like that in KOF for 20 years, it's more like a feature at this point, kinda like the many, many ways the game let's you cancel a simple 426X or 6246X
They're back!
when you pause the video to complain in the comments then unpause and your complaint is the first thing the youtuber addresses
Shout outs to FD Signifier, I guess.
👍
Always 🙏
*puts on glasses* well, acfuawwy Pauls deathfist is not a fireball motion per say, since it's firstly makes him enter a forward sway, out of which he can chose to do deathfist earlier or later, with the damage being higher the later you press a button. So again, technically, Paul doesn't have a fireball, he has a window for fairy balls (that came out wrong...)
I'm shocked the lack of buffer on old games was never brought up.
Incredible 💀💀💀
Another shout out to Battle Arena Toshinden! WOOOOOOO!!!
Yo, this editing is pretty intense, huge props on that! The only aspects that still need work in my opinion are your mic quality and script delivery. I dunno it's either that you talk too slow or the script itself could've been made a little tighter or maybe both? But those are minor nitpicks, otherwise the video is impressively well-crafted and I have nothing but respect for all the work you put into it ✌
Uneventful video about uneventful history
Don't say I didn't warn you.
List of tested games (incomplete): Stree
Battle Arena Toshinden is the spider georg of fireball input
RUBBISH I LOVE RUBBISH@!!!!
Pauls deathfist comes out of a backwards roll dash stance, it is not a fireball.
Deathfist does not come out of backsway, it comes out of his regular roll dash which is a QCF motion : )
This is one of the reasons why, despite growing up with Street Fighter and still loving it to this day, I will always prefer Smash. Smash is, despite what anyone says, an actual serious fighting game. The series proves that you don't need traditional fighting game inputs to make an incredibly deep, competitive, and rewarding experience that will stand the test of time.
But, I do like to ⬇️ ↘️ ➡️ 👊 someone on occasion.
"Más lento que bola de Toshinden"
you are probably right about the input speed of tekken's Paul death fist move (i don't know but trust you for this) but you forgot that it is actually a stance move in tekken to do the quarter circle with Paul (also forward not just backwards) so the window to hit the 2 button is very lenient because you are in a stance mode the entire time he is crouch dashing, so yes you might have to input fast if u want the fastest possible input but you can delay a whole lot and it still comes out because of the few stance options available. look at it like doing an electric with Kazuya versus a regular wind god fist is what i would compare it too in this case.
I love them bros
Happy new year rubbish! 🎉
Regardless of timing / frames I would argue a fluid motion with no other input interrupting it. So fluid for that specific game.
Good video, sorry for the wall of text down below.
I appreciate the time you took to get this data but I have questions. What's the point?
I'm not trying to be malicious, I like to hear the opinions of people about fighting game inputs.
For example, you discarded the games that let you skip the diagonal. What do you think about games that do such shortcuts?
From the video I could see you're not too fond of them. Why?
From the miniature and title I thought this video was about the importance of the QC motion. Not that what I watched wasn't good, but it wasn't what I expected. It felt as if I had to know that this input is super important. But, other than "because it's been done since SFII", why is it so important? Why is it so important to make it a quarter circle instead of down > forward?
It's questions like these that I find interesting.
Anyway, if you read up to this point, thank you.
Those may all be noble and/or interesting things to discuss. But someone said I was wrong on the internet, so I had to step up!
@@HQRubbish understandable, easy content is easy content (well the investigation you did wasn't exactly what I'd call easy content but you know what I mean)
I just dropped these as things that could spark an interesting debate. Either way, good luck and good job :D
While games have different input windows for a a fireball, I would make the hypothesis that none of them prevent you from doing the motion as fast as possible.
I guess it depends on if the game checks your input at the framerate it runs at (so every 1/60 of a second for a 60 fps game) or if it cheks the inputs more frequently, whenether possible, regardless of framerate. I heard that different games use different methods, though I'm not entirely sure.
Well your hypothesis is wrong as most games in the genre only allow one input per frame. And you need at least 3 inputs for a qcf.
I can't even name one game that doesn't work this way.
@@BasarapoilThe game only checking inputs every 1/60th of a second is not the same as the game seeing you do it too quickly and disallowing it
@@AirventOS Yes, so what?
@@Basarapoil i believe the original comment is going off the idea that doing a qcf in 3 frames is the limit, so you went as fast as possible from the game's perspective. You could input faster than a frame but thats faster than what the game is checking, so 3 frames is as fast as you can go. I think the commenter was saying that there isnt a game that lets do do a qcf in 3 frames, but reject you because you did it too fast.
Also, EFZ has a subframe system, letting you input faster than a displayed frame, but that's whatever
Excellent video, as always! But I really find it a shame it's missing one critical component: Input priority.
While the priority of the fireball input over other special inputs doesn't affect the execution of the fireball itself, how the games treat that priority, and how they allow players to surcomvent the rules in-place, will greatly alter how the fireball _feels_ to do, so it would have been nice to see this subject included.
Heyo, thanks for watching. I suppose I could have added a part where input priority was mentioned, but in general most FG's operate under the same principle where QCF motion are given the lowest input priority in terms of special moves. Meaning that half circles and dragon punches will win out if clashes occur.
Rubbish making whole videos just to make a point. You love to see it
When you factor in that most people are fast enough to QCF in any game, yeah, there honestly aren’t any notable differences in how you fireball in each game. It is what it is.
Toshinden 4/Subaru may be inconsequential when it comes to input buffer and as an actual fighting game, but it has the absolute best minigames I've ever seen in a fighter. Tekken Ball and Bowl got NOTHING on Puella's Egg.
It also got my guy Bang -Boo!!!!
15:48 ?
Only game I can think of where a fireball motions feels much different is SF1 since you basically had to be frame perfect on every input in the notion. Even the ones with extra leniency can still be done with faster inputs and still come out. But in SF1, you had to be exact.
I used to believe that, but a quick test in MAME shows otherwise. It looks like SF1 is surprisingly lenient *only for direction inputs.* What kills SF1 is how the game handles *button inputs.* The first issue is that the fireball doesn't activate with the button press, it activates only with the button release. The second issue is that the button input window is much smaller than the direction input window, you have to release Punch no more than two frames after the game registered the Forward input.
@@BainesMkII Huh, I do remember some video somewhere saying SF1 specials were easier with negative edge. So this was the reason...
I just hope Motion Inputs never go away from 2D Style Fighting Games. Even though some of these MF'ers are trying to get rid of them. They're the most enjoyable aspect to me about Fighting Games. Project L can suck a 🍆 for not having Motion Inputs.
Deja vu
One place that fireball motions do differ between games (even within the same series) on, and one where the timing window becomes more relevant (due to needing to contain a jump input and prejump the differences are larger proportionally) is how TK-able they are. Venom's Mad Struggle j.236S/H/D in GGXXAC+R is much easier to TK than Mad Struggle j.236S/H in GGXrdR2. But I don't know how much of the difference is in the motion input itself and how much is in the games leniency for TKing it.
Similar to that are the KoF games that have input priority where you MUST TK to get a dash fireball or else a DP comes out. Same with going from a forward command normal into a fireball. Re:KoF13 combo challenges.
@@strippinheat so you can't even press back then do a fireball input, 64236 is still DP?
tested KOF13 on the steam version it's technically possible to get 6641236X to get fireball
still swag
236 🔥
Every time I click on your videos I'm just taken the fuck aback by how handsome you are it's unreal
+ an extremely smooth script as always
I am only 6 ish minutes in so mabye it will be mentioned (in which case I shall edit this) but, an important aspect of motion inputs that varies between fighting games is not only the gates that need to be hit but also the duration that a input will be stored in the memory. This affects how quickly a input must be done as well how easy something is to hit confirm (among others).
Edit: It is mention. :D
although it doesn't go in to the technical details as much as I would like.
why does groove on fight have a mario movie goomba as a character
Perhaps we ought to be asking what happened in 97 that prevented future inclusions of Mario Movie Goombas?
Wasn't the original Street Fighter notorious for very specific input timing to pull off the specials though?
I remembered it that way, but I just tested it in MAME and found it behaved differently than I'd believed. SF1 appears to be relatively lenient with the direction input. The issues come from how it handles the button input. The fireball only activates on button *release* and you have to release the button no more than two frames after inputting Forward.
faiyhabawll
am i missing something or are the conversions from frames to seconds all wrong? like, how can a 59 frames move be 4 seconds when the game runs at 60fps? wouldnt it be 1 second?
You are missing a couple of words there. 59 frames PER INPUT.
@@HQRubbish ooooooooooh ok thats crazy
:3
I find it funny how there are forum crusades for/against modern and classic in SF6.
While in Granblue Rising, it's: Yes, one button fireballs and supers exist; yes, everybody uses them. The topic was debated only for the first week and then it died out.
(And yes, I should really be talking about that under Controllers video. But the game just wasn't out then)
Please unhide your TTT2 Alisa tutorial videos. Thanks 🙏🏾
All the unlisted videos are available on my Patreon.
@@HQRubbishI’m loving the anti-character content from Tag 2! But the old Alisa guide still seems to be hidden, unfortunately 😢
It should be back in the unlisted playlist now.
@@HQRubbish u r goated 🙏🏾
@@woodchipdust Thx for the support
damn what a boring video
what is with the video quality here, you're losing frames
Yes, the recording sadly got fucked up with no way to save it. I wont be using that setup again in the future though.