The absolute peak of the "no politics" shit is Ubisoft, who at this point turned it into their brand. They keep making games with deliberately politically charged themes and imagery and then saying "no politics here, sir!" when asked about it.
They seem like they want to but also don't want their sales negatively impacted. They straight up make a game about overthrowing the fascist leader of a fictionalized Cuba and then try to say it won't be political.
reminds me of in an interview activision said "call of duty modern warfare is about imperialism and colonialism" and then in another interview they said "oh no the game isnt political"
@@swordhunter12 Make the writing and themes painfully cliche, boilerplate, and centrist. Instead of the plot having any overall motif or statement, make it have the most milquetoast take so that nobody even notices. A generic "war is hell" or "both sides are bad" will do fine
My best friend from high-school introduced me to the Metal Gear Series. We talked about the horrors of war, passing on DNA and memes to further humanity, and how the war economy of 4 is just bonkers. Then, right after high-school, he joined the army and became a conspiracy theory nut. Wtf?!
It's a series about a small group of elites controlling the American government and manipulating information to guide the general public in a specific direction and you don't see how that would appeal to a conspiracy nut?
According to some gamers NOT POLITICAL: Military industrial complex Militarization of police Facism Communism Colonialism Surveillance Proxy wars Social engineering Institutional oppression Digital information control. WAY TOO POLITICAL: Women Gay Black
No no, it isn't that people don't want a nuanced story showing the horror of war, they just don't want the only playable characters to have a half buzzed haircut and purple hair.
@@newpracticei think he means the while DE has a very clear underline political massage, the game still lets you and even pushes you to choose an ideology and at all times will assure you its the right one and even reward you with an achievement for it. You can practically play any ideology you want(e.g. communist, fascist) and the characters around you are yours to put to categories, when i see the supremacist i think its horrible but the next guy might see him and think he has a point and is a great fellow
Off topic but I think consoles would have a bigger share in the market if they had more splitscreen co-op games coming. It’s something the PC can’t really replicate the same way and it’s a really big opportunity that Sony and Microsoft are missing out on.
Yeah, maybe they don't do it or don't encourage developers to do it is because they also gain money from online service subscriptions and think they would lose that income if people can play with other people without paying for an extra service.
My most hated thing is when people use the world "politics" to refer to literally anything outside the norm in a game, like having a trans protagonist isn't "politics" that's not what that word MEANS.
Here's one I especially hate, "Being Black is Political" like you're just throwing out everything the character might have, and just focus on their race, not focusing on the character what so ever
@@walterwang4669 The trans movement is absolutely political. Nobody was talking about the trans movement. Just trans characters. The point is that people conflate the very existence of certain ideas with political issues. For example, a game could be labeled as "feminist" for simply having a muscular woman in it.
@@TheDude8008 Critikal is a decently known RUclipsr who is infamous for being really centrist and having a pretty toxic fandom because of that. His videos about weirdo transphobes making themselves look cringey in public are a good example of that - because *All* of the comments are transphobic af. He also used to run (or still runs, I haven't seen it in a while tho) a podcast with a few reactionary-esq dudes, especially this weirdo angry Turkish guy who would explode into whiney rants about feminists or whatever halfway through the episodes.
@@godzilladude Do you not remember the video he did about the transphobic christian family stomping through walmart and screaming that they hate trans people.
@@godzilladude I don't watch the guy but I remember him from like 14 years ago and he's uploaded vids on the daily for a long time too so there's no way he hasn't made 1 comment about LGBT stuff.
just wanted to clarify that when people say that all art is political, we're not saying that everything is as overtly political in the way that, say, Fallout is--we're more trying to point out that the circumstances behind art being created is inherently political. great example being Tetris, a game that has the least overt politics you can imagine, but was created in the Soviet Union and eventually sold outside of the SU as being "the game that escaped the iron curtain". another good example would be Metro: Last Light, which definitely has unmistakable political undertones, but is also a political creation from another perspective when you consider that the developers behind it did so despite having frequent power outages and having to work in below freezing offices (due to their government-run heating systems being borked). this is not even beginning to get into how it is inherently political whether an independent solo dev or a massive corporation crafts a game. politics are not just electoralism or the social issues that someone deems debatable, even something like the environment which you or I may agree must be protected (even then, there are plenty of different kinds of environmentalism, and different ways that someone can become environmentalist, and that is all political in and of itself).
Talking about the method of an art's creation and how the art is perceived is ascrelevant ascthe art and its intended contents. I do think death of the author applies in a lot of cases, but it is worth keeping the artist in mind as well. So yeah, no, they were talking about the art here.
That last line about throwing a hissy fit over gay and trans characters in games is so right. How is their inclusion a political stance? Because you as an individual don’t like them? Like, you and your experience as a person is not the only viewpoint in the world, other people that differ from you exist as regular people living their lives. Why is my literal existence in media “political discourse” lmao
i think their inclusion in AAA games can really vary, Fallout New Vegas has brilliant gay characters meanwhile overwatch removed tracer being gay in russia, one of these clearly care more about genuine diversity and the other is clearly just tokenism for woke consumer liberal points
@@GiordanDiodato some people genuinely cannot tell the difference between tokenism and representation its honestly just as funny as it is dissapointing
Amazing video, short, humorous and to the point, deserves way more views. People confuse “ideological message/narrative” with “political ladscape/discussion”. If you got people with different and/or conflicting world views and factions in your game it’s already got “politics”.
" I dont like politics in my videogames ! " - Random person " Okay, thats cool, whats your favorite videogame? " - Me " Bioshock 2 and Bioshock infinite ! " - Random person ... What
I'm perfectly fine with politics in video games when it's done well and works in the game. It's when politics get awkwardly shoved in that's a problem.
"Ummmm but Fallout DOESN'T COUNT because games back then didn't shove political messages in your face! They were subtle!" Meanwhile, in reality, Fallout 2 has two NPCs at the end of the game that you talk to, right before the final boss, who are outright bad guys and preach conservative values to your face.
You described it very well there: games, like any form of media, aren't only about entertainment but also having their fair share of politics which basically means social debates. But I disagree about a perfect world being only about harmony without politics. I find debates and discussions as well as finding the middle ground very important for a society with very different individuals. That's why I see a problem in polarised groups only living in their closed filtre bubbles.
In theory, but that couldn't realistically be acheived. The peace would have to be forcefully maintained both through the obscuring of alternatives and the enforcement of hegemony.
The debate over "politics in games" is a stupid pointless game of semantics which gives me a major headache and frankly I'm just sick and tired of it. The entire debate is nothing but a question of semantics. "Politics" is an incredibly nebulous, ill-defined term that can be stretched to intersect with multiple other fields of study such as history, philosophy, economics and frankly a good majority of the entire human experience. When people complain about politics in games, I think what they mean is just the most baseline, simplistic definition of the term: contemporary, partisan, usually American political hot-button topics being ham-fisted into narratives and settings where it makes absolutely no god damn sense just because the writer wanted to preach to the audience. There is a massive difference between something like New Vegas, with its multi-layered, nuanced commentary on the nature of humanity and in-depth examination of the various ideologies that inhabit post-nuclear America, and something stupid like making your evil dark lord an orange skinned ogre who plans to make his kingdom great again or something stupid like that. There is a massive difference between exploring a theme or topic and just preaching a message to your audience with no subtlety. And if I'm being brutally honest, I think there is a certain camp of people deliberately obfuscating the semantics issue I mentioned earlier because they just want to preach to the audience. The reason people don't complain about politics in New Vegas or Metal Gear is because they're competently written enough that the messages are woven into the narrative rather than just dictated to the player, and they are detached enough that multiple audiences can take what they want and apply the themes and messages to their own lives in some way. I think society as a whole has become more divisive and bitter in recent years, with people more intent on screaming at each other over the internet than actually hearing out what people have to say. I think this has bled over into video games and actually just all forms of entertainment. "Escapism" seems to have become something of a dirty word, you're just not aloud these days to kick back and enjoy yourself for a bit. You have to constantly be thinking, 24/7, about whatever hot button political issues the internet tells you to care about and if you even think about just taking a fucking break you are a bad person. That's just not fucking healthy, I'm sorry but it isn't. People need a fucking break and it pisses me off that I see current American political issues (I'm not American btw) shoved into shit it has no right being in. There is just no fucking escape, no fucking break, just a constant 24/7 reminder that you should be angry about the world, always. All of this has led me to a sad, frankly depressing notion: We will never get another game like New Vegas, ever. It's just not going to happen. A big part of the reason why that game was so awesome is because each and every group in that game is treated with some level of respect. Joshua Graham and his faith were treated with respect, the hyper-libertarian culture of the Boomers was treated with respect. Even the Legion as reprehensible as it was, was given a genuine at actually making its case for why it should be in charge of the wasteland. The writers of the game made an earnest attempt to get inside the heads of the characters and understand and portray their worldviews as accurately as possible. But you're not gonna fucking get that anymore because its not enough to just call the game bad or poorly written, any kind of perceived problem is a reflection on the morality of the creators. Any attempt to portray any worldview that is controversial or disagreeable to the audience as anything other than cartoon bad guys is immediately treated as an endorsement of said worldview and prove that the creators are evil, bigoted human beings who must be Oh and on the whole diversity thing, since the usual response to complaining about this stuff is to simply call the complainer a bigot and I wanna cover my bases. I'm not against gay or black characters being included in fiction. I'm against poorly written "diverse" characters being ham-fisted into a story where it makes no sense just to make the authors look good (look at Blizzard's celebration of "diversity" in their recent titles and the ongoing shitshow at their company for a perfect example of this. Or just compare Rey to Ellen Ripley. And New Vegas handled its gay characters well by treating them like actual human beings not defined solely by their sexuality.) I've given up on games ever advancing as an art form, the dream is dead. Why bother making something even remotely controversial when you can just make a shitty microtransaction filled mediocre garbage fire and make ten times the money with none of the effort or risk to yourself? Reddit sucks, Twitter sucks, don't use them for the sake of your sanity. J.R.R Tolkien famously hated allegory as a literary device. I'm gonna leave this quote here because I think he sums up my feelings on the matter more eloquently than I ever could. “I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
This is just bad on so many levels. No one said you can't have "Escapism". You can't expect the developers to make works pandering to your interests in gaming, is all. Games are art, and art is inherently divisive. What you're complaining about is art being inspired by life, which is just silly. You can criticize a game without resorting to "it's pandering". That means nothing. Fallout is extremely pandering about it's anti capitalist message, if you think about it for one second. You can criticize the quality of the narrative, or the delivery of the message. Criticizing nebulous things just because you can't accept that what you really don't like is that the politics are against you is silly. Simple as.
@@radiofloyd2359 No, Outer Worlds is pandering in its anti-capitalist message. New Vegas lets you side with the biggest capitalist in the entire series (Mr. House) and lets the player make up their own mind how they feel about him. Pandering is hitting the audience over the head with a singular message and demonizing and strawmanning every opposing viewpoint presented.
@@MrPyroCrab New Vegas might. The rest of the fallout franchise is not. The entire premise of fallout is inherently anti capitalist, the fact you can't see it is not my problem. I've heard mixed things about how badly the outer worlds delivered it's message, so my guess is you're probably right that it's delivered in a dumb way, but fallout is as overt as they come with it's anticapitlism. Only New Vegas maybe doesn't immediately make it obvious why siding with an Anarcho capitalist is actual stupidity.
@@radiofloyd2359 Siding with House is not actual stupidity but that's besides the point. Fallout 1 was primarily a story about stopping the Master and saving the Vault, nothing about capitalism there. Sure, maybe you could argue the Hub merchants being greedy has some kind of merit to it, but on the flip side if Gizmo takes over Junktown he actually ends up turning it into a thriving city precisely because he's good for business. Fallout 2 had the Enclave, but while they were the remnants of the American government they weren't really "capitalist" per-se, the most overt example of anti-capitalism I can think of is Vault-tec's experiments but again, that isn't the primary focus of the game's story. Bethesda Fallout doesn't count. Sure, there's themes of corporate satire in there, but it ain't the primary focus of the series in the slightest. Fallout isn't an angry screed against capitalism, its more of a socratic exercise about the clash of ideologies and the cyclical nature of history, with a peppering of satire on American culture thrown in for good measure. That's not pandering, there's far more going on there than just "Capitalism Bad"
@@MrPyroCrab DUDE. THE FUCKING WORLD ENDED BECAUSE OF VAULT TECH. That's literally the point of the story. The premise of the story is founded on a war for ressources caused very obviously by capitalism. The entirety of the fallout universe can be considered as a story of trying to move on from said capitalist system, and always being brought back. It's why there's always an emphasis on people trying to rebuild the old world.
they removed flags from clash of clans because people kept asking for an ukranain flag and to remove the russian one and vise versa. games that have nothing to do with politics are getting ruined
the parappa music made me think you were about to reveal how parappa the rapper is secretly right wing propoganda and idk if ive ever been so afraid in my life
I really liked this. I think it's really difficult currently to enjoying video games. It's daunting realizing how many big studios don't want to take risks with their storytelling to have meaning/or tackle big social-political topics. I know it definitely does happen, especially within the indie scene, but I really wish these AAA companies would actually have more of a point than creating fun, big, maximalist approaches to games. I feel like within the AAA sphere everything has been an expansion from old Ubisoft open-world rock-star game design. Heck, as much as people enjoyed Ghosts of Tsushima that itself was more of the same in it's approach to game-design with a new coat of paint (the story was quite good tho)
@@radiofloyd2359 it's all capitalism. people would rather make a mediocre product and gain tons of money than make a truly good and passion filled product if it means losing a couple million it's why indie games usually have much more complex ideas and thought provoking endings because the people who made it all had an actual vision and wanted to see that vision come to life, not just "turn computer code into money"
Thiiis. And the "no politics in mah vidya" crowd isn't making things any better. It's like gamers wan't their games to be regarded as art in the same way as films or books but at the same time start screeching "nooo why does this game have politics in it?! Games are supposed to be mindless fun!"
Bro this makes no sense, nobody cares about games that are started being based about politics or advertise based on that notion. What people hate is when suddenly a game about space ninjas fighting aliens suddenly starts placing a lgbt flags everywhere and banning any players that misgender a fucking a robot. *cough* warframe…. Some people just want to take a break from reality and it’s pretty fuckin hard when all your favorite games keep shoving a narrative down your throat
Believe it or not, other people also like to take a break from reality, and it's nice when they getto play as someone they can relate to or look like. Seriously get a grip
I just hate when people with their superiority complexes try to act like a political game is nothing more than a political statement. I love MGS so much, and I respect the political commentary, but I also like when funny cat man spins funny guns.
In the 4X game, Humanity/Humankind, the description for when you research "Imperial Power: Formalizing the rights, obligations, and responsibilities of citizens, through laws or local administrators, permits the application of long-distance political power through non-violent means." 😬 And, good to hear about the Spec Ops one, I'll have to check that out.
centrists are also the ones who just want to consoom and complain about politics in games. also just because there are certain politics in games doesn't mean they can't be subverted and you have to follow the author's intentions and agree with him on every step of the way, different people can find the same thing good or bad, regardless if you realize the intentions of the author or not.
To me, whenever I say "Keep politics out of games", it's often because Me and many other gamers see new developers hijacking a lot of big-name, game series, especially in the west, and deliberately ploy sleight-of-hand tactics to inject their own political ideologies into games that don't really warrant it. Or if you're the Saints Row reboot, you drill the point home with the subtlety of a tank round. As much as people would criticize the notion of Keeping Politics out of video games, I think there is also something to be said about the notion of "All art is political". I don't disagree that politics exist in games, but what I think people misinterpret, is that the politics work best in the context of the games they're in. Fire Emblem is a series that tackles Medieval Warfare and the politics within the realms of the games. Does this automatically mean that we are inclined to appropriate that to our daily lives? Must we subject ourselves to to forgo the fun and engaging military-tactics, to preach about how "X candiate is bad because he reminds me of a villain in (insert media)"? The bottom line is that I mean it when I say that I don't want our Real Life politics in any of the games I play. (yes, even politics I agree with.) I'd find it equally as jarring if Mega Man fought Dr.Wily for the sake of "Building the Wall" as I would if he fought for the sake of "Dr.Wily said something Homophobic on his instagram."
I wouldn't say it's slight of hand if it's heavy handed ^^' Besides New Vegas and Pathologic 2, I mostly play sandbox and micromanagement games which do oddly also often have some commentary on industry (often to hilarious effect), so mostly been absent from any example anyone might give about "modern politics" being shown in games.
@@SteppefordWife I mean, yeah, but again; Games can have a form of politics in them. But far too often in modern times do we see games transmogrify into sermons for an ideology that can really only represent a select few people.
As long as there is a line to be drawn the line will be pushed, no one chose their circumstances and circumstance coupled with the influence of people around them made them. We didn't get to pick and choose the cast, the pase, the rules, we didn't get to pick our starting place.
It's not because the game conveys a message that we are obliged to agree with the message. That's what leftists don't understand. If a game conveys something you disagree with, just ignore the message. Besides, in a game, any message politics works, because reality is subject to the creator's hands, so his opinion will always come out "winning" in a game, so letting the message of a game influence reality is something for someone who has no critical sense.
@@Pedro-mo6cn at no point did i say you have to agree with the message of every game you play, im just saying its funny how people can play a game about the horrors of war and PTSD and have their main take away be "hell yea brother i want to go through that!" lol
The reason because every form of art is more of less politcal is that politics only means ideas and messages, therefore everything that is made with/transmits a message is political
Having some kind of politics is hard to avoid, the whole "Keep politics out of games" seem more concerned with what's perceived as glorification of a group or pandering to a specific group or ideology. Then you get something like the whole sexual identity debate of today often regarded as identity politics and boy oh boy, here we go into this shitshow again. Further feeding into the narrative of divide by opinions while seeking validation from like-minded people, which the most vocal ones also tend to be some that push the narrative too far beyond reason. The whole thing is quite tiresome, as the push for said pandering just reaches new levels of absurdity from either side as most people who take it too seriously just continues to double-down, push to extremes, ignore any good arguments and feed on those who support said narrative as validation. What's really have to be debated is the actual quality of the content and it's presentation. Can artistic mediums explore such things? Yes. Does it always have to do it? Absolutely not. Not to mention that I find it funny how I see so many people who want to be anti-estabilishment or anti-corporate, actively seeking validation from them, which speaks volumes to the lack of principles some people have.
horrible take. No matter how anti-establishment you are, everyone needs to be validated by society to some level. Fighting for the literal right to exist takes precedence over trying to dismantle the establishment. The establishment is also the one that enforces most of these stereotypes. Second, I just don't believe there's forced diversity in gaming. There's really bad movies that are clearly trying to play the girlboss cards to sell tickets to stupid liberals, but that doesn't exist in gaming. Closest thing, TLOU2, has undeniable passion and a genuine interest to tackle it's themes, no matter how much it fails at it. I don't think you can call a game that risky a cash grab. Finally, gaming is still largely pandering to males. Women are still more often than not just for the player's fantasies, and there's still a substantial underrepresentation of women in gaming. Trying to make this a "both sides are valid" argument, when one side is clearly against art is misguided.
@@radiofloyd2359 stereotyping women or a certain group of people isn’t the author’s fault, as he isn’t the one who treats people like you shouldn’t treat them, that’s the fault of the people who misinterpreted the content that they saw and thought that it was completely real. Lets make a LONG example: There is an autistic kid who reads a fantasy book where the main character has superpowers of every kind, and in one part of the book he stops a car at the street using his strength. This kid believes that what he saw is real and that he is capable of doing that. One day, he goes shopping with his mother, and at one moment his mother gets distracted by a group of people. The kid sees this situation as an oportunity to try his powers, so he goes to the middle of the street and tries to stop a car with his bare hands. He gets hit by a car and dies. Now, you might blame his parents for letting the kid read this kind of book, but lets say that it was a book meant for people from his age, and that its synopsis/reviews didn’t mention at any point that there were going to be people with superpowers. All of this details mentioned above that might seem arbitrary at first, aren’t arbitrary at all. The autism that the kid has means that he isn’t completely able to discern reality. The distraction of her mother means that she can’t be responsible for what happened to him, as her distraction was other’s fault. And the age rating for the book is mentioned so that her parents aren’t responsible for giving the kid something that they shouldn’t give him, and also it is mentioned that it didn’t seem as a book with any kind of supernatural element on it that when tried on real life could get someone hurt. So, everything happened because of three main things: - The book was not what it seemed to be. - The kid had autism. - Events that where almost unpredictable. Now, lets suppose that you go to the past knowing that this was going to happen. You don’t know where the kid lives, where the accident happened, but you are granted the ability -somehow- to force the author to change his book in order for people to not misinterpret it. Lets also suppose that you are able to show the author the future that will happen if he doesn’t change his book. Let’s say that even though he knows the future, he refuses to change his book in order to save the child’s life. Would it be moral to force him to do something against his will in order to prevent other things from happening? What happens if changing the book provokes bad feedback and a reduction of its sales? Would it be moral to save someone if it implies screwing others? Even though you might say that a life is more valuable than a book, what makes you morally able to impose that idea on others?
I think one reason why people tend to ignore mgs's overall anti-war message because there isnt really much of a penalty gameplaywise for killing tons of soldiers apart from getting a lower score mostly and the kills/deaths in the game are way too "clean" compared to a game like say manhunt so you arent exactly thinking about the absolute brutality or violence of war. If anything theres more of a cinematic and action-oriented approach that makes war look way cooler than its supposed to be
Honestly this video is great and I understand its only meant to be a brief rant but it does itch something thats never really talked about and its the idea that politics are a bad thing. In the modern age people see the word politics and immediately freak out and lose their minds without any real understanding of well anything. Just about everything is political in nature because everything is inherently ran ON politics. The more you try to ignore politics or just genuine intelligent conversation by remaining willfully ignorant the more you slowly become less of someone with any real viewpoint or thoughts of their own and more like what someone else tells them to be. It's a terrifying idea but the amount of people that are probably going to be personally offended by this statement only proves my point further. Politics aren't a bad thing. Wanting to take a break from being serious all the time isn't a bad thing either. But when someone would rather actively close themselves off from being more aware or being more intelligent? Thats where it gets concerning as a whole.
Its also really telling seeing what those types of people DEEM political. a lot of the times it's only political because it doesn't conform to THEIR political views, otherwise it's not political they can then use this to vilify alternative opinions under the guise of "I don't want to get political", making themselves seem like the chill one.
@@Ovandal oh yeah this happens plenty. Plenty in the far right use this as a way to not only make them seem chill but also to normalise what they're spreading
Gringo fanático de Fallout 3, 4 y 74 descubre que la política está involucrada en la mayoría de arte que consumimos, desde cómics, películas y videojuegos. Queda estupefacto:
Hard to believe I was adamantly anti politics in gaming. Now I'm all for it as long as it doesn't ruin the game or characters. Edit: My fav game is also Hotline Miami 2 for fuck sake XD
I think politics can't ruin a game, but bad writing definitely can. A great comparison would be the outer worlds vs fallout new vegas, they have similar themes but new vegas's writing pulls it off with a lot of nuance. Meanwhile the outer world's shoves it down your throat in such a way that it becomes annoying at worst and just depressing at best
@@Ovandal I was mainly talking about how disingenuous big companies are when it comes to politics. Overwatch is a MASSIVE example. Not only do they brag about their diverse cast (something you shouldn't do if you actually give a shit about minorities), they also use them as a marketing ploy and more recently, this was before we found out they mistreated minority employees btw. When Indie Devs/companies add minority characters (Celeste, Hollow Knight, Undertale, Iconoclast are the best examples I can think of), it feels more genuine since it's just a few people or one person creating their vision. But, when companies like Blizzard do it, it's clearly fake due to what we know what goes on behind the scenes. Although I knew Blizzard was fake before that happened.
Oh yeah I 100% agree on that, diversity in big AAA titles is almost always a shallow marketing ploy, again New Vegas has the best gay characters I've seen in a game and is one of the few big titles I can think of that I genuinely believe has good intentions with their diversity also sidenote: i met the devs for iconoclasts ages ago at eurogamer expo 2015, they're cool people!!!!
@@Ovandal It's mostly about Diversity is when people start complaining. Another example I can think of which isn't diversity related was the very subtle gun control message in Subnautica. (As you can tell, I'm a massive Indie fanboy XD).
The politics of hegemony do. But to say all politics consolidates and preserves current power steuctures is to disregard progressive and revolutionary movements such as feminism, socialism, communism and anarchism.
I'm fine with politics in games. My issue comes when it's covered in a biased way. That's part of why I like New Vegas so much, every faction has their own reasoning and justification in some way. Well, the major factions at least, not so much the generic bad ones like the Powder Gangers and raiders. You can argue how fucked up the legion is with its slavery, but it's own fucked up way it does work and for the most part, the people within it are safe, as shown by the caravan companies siding with legion as they protect them You can argue how the NCR is ineffective and full of cracks, but at least democracy is upheld and outside of the Mojave where they're spread far too thin to properly manage things, most people in the NCR live a pretty normal life. When most people say "keep politics out of games" chances are they're not asking for a removal of politics all together, more so biased, one-sided politics that usually boils down to "my side good, your side bad". Not to say some of those people wouldn't support that on the other way around, but still.
rethink that bit on the powder ganster cause youve beem biased by cobb. The poweder gangsters were doing slave labor on behalf of an mean old govt. they freed themselves but they dont just raid or fuck with anyone. Sure some factions of the gang are just plain raiders, and they are assholes imo but the main group the faction hates specifically the NCR and the Trade Barons and raids them not only for their sustinence but alos for politic rasons. tank u for comineg ted talk
Not all art can or should be colorless. Would you argue that book authors should not be influenced by their political ideologies? Do you get annoyed when you read Animal Farm? "Darn it! I just want to read about the cute animals!!" Do you think the new Wolfenstein games should cut the nazis some slack?
I can't believe I actually fell at some point for the "the Legion had a point, actually". They're literally just the evil faction, but with a facade of a genuine goal and justifications. Fascism 101.
"Politics" nowadays is usually a cover-up term, which translates to "the politics I, me specifically, don't like." Give me political and social commentary. Be a valuable form of artistic expression. But, you're not getting my standing ovation unless it's decently written, presented, and/or integrated well.
If that's the case we should keep out lgbbq stuff out of games also because theres also no religious stuff in games so as they say, EQUAL RIGHTS EQUAL FIGHTS!
What many mean is politicking, they don't want that to happen to gaming, games, and or gamers; In think this is category error ironically rooted in bad civics. We often don't even have civics class in schools, wherever they are if they are in a electoral parliamentary democracy, which would inoculate so many of us from smoothbrained tags like that you showed really early
i think people mean non-story relevant politics like the blizzard diversity wheel n stuff when they want politics out of games, as in they are okay with a political story but not okay with political "propaganda"
If the cast of overwatch was all white, would that be propaganda? Would that be politics? Or do you think it's just politics when someone is a woman, black or gay?
@@Junebug89 EletricKitty is referring diversity hires, A practice that hires employees based on their skin color instead of their qualifications. I don't know about you but I don't view it as empowering or progressive that they would hire someone for something they have no control over.
Molluck the Glukkon: "There are no politics in Rapturefarms, even though we are plotting to kill our employees to revitalize our profits, because the beasts we have been systematically killing and turning to sweets are near extinct."
The Memes army is small and can win the battle but some of Memers use meme for war and make an hate speech so i know my country is small too but she is out of the biggest grand countries.
In my opinion, you heavily misunderstood what "keep politics out of games" means. As you said, to a certain degree, it's impossible to separate politics from any art from. It's about treating all viewpoints with respect and most importantly, nuance (like new Vegas). And not make a game that's basically propaganda and makes one side the dumb bad guys
I hope this isn't rude, but the first time I learned about the economy and the government was in pokemon. If people say that politics should not exist in games, I'd say that'll ruin pokemon(in my personal opinion, I respect people who don't think that it is because that's the beauty of pokemon. Its mostly fun regardless of perspective.)
TLDR, I like when a game is political but doesn't try to morally imply "this guy good ending,this guy bad ending",something that most political games fail at doing Let me clear out things for you:I think most people hate when a game gets political but tries to imply who's right and who's wrong,but when a game gets political but lets you take part of all sides and there is no objectively good ending like in most fallout games,I think that's when a political game is the best,there are no "perfect utopia" ideologies,I don't care if you are a greedy capitalist or a stupid larping tankie,I love new vegas so much because all endings are kind of a mixed bag,just to remind you that there is no "goodie and baddie",all endings have positive and negative consequences,even siding with caesar has its benefits,you made roads safer for merchants but at what cost?slavery becoming the norm? it's a super boring argument really,but at the end of the day humans are a mixed bag and we have all done good and evil,this is why I'm a centrist and I dislike both extremes.Also borders are there to protect you and communism is dogshit but whatever,still nice content
Great perspective, often the reasoning political tie ins are missed. I'm so tired of X and Y country, are against each other, you must join them together; oh no the villain is a psychopath and has a emotionally damaged past... it's so predictable.
the whole politics in video game thing is a really mixed bag for me bc you have HUGE "political"(quoting this bc this should not be political but just HUMAN issues but for some reason we think they are political) issues for example global warming but except for those gigantic problems you have political issues that are difference from country to country so it can never really work unless your game is limited to one specific place like how fallout applies to america a lot but it doesn't apply to other countries on this god forsaken planet, but at the same time you have the Simpson( or futurama either or) who have a lot of parodies of curren modern issues that still apply to this day to a lot of countries so it still kind of works, anyway i only play cookie clicker now bc there is too many political issues to be able to have enough video games covering them all
Disco Elysium is my favorite example of politics in games. It is an EXTREMELY political game, one of the most political i have played in fact, but it handles it with grace and show the good and bad of every ideology, letting the player decide what they align with and what they believe in
I still can't belive that there is a game that almost got me to subscribe to the pseudo intellectual, borderline pro eugenic ideas of a guy called Measurehead just so I could press a button. And honestly DE by proxy through Kim or...the inner workings of your/Harry's own mind... calls you out so much if you decide to go batshit with your politics just so you can get something out of a game. It's brilliant.
This is very well thought out, and well executed content. You seem very intelligent and I enjoyed your take on this, but why the hate on centrists lol.
Often times centrists are individuals who, yes are good at being able to see both sides, but lack the ability or desire to make meaningful change. This puts people off of the idea a lot, which to me personally, does make sense. I'd rather have a dead hard Villan than a in-between spectre in this wacky world.
@@deadlynicky So its better to have hitler than a random guy with no extreme views? This kind of radical thinking is what has made our society so divided and extremist in recent years.
@@minecraftgravityguy the problem with the random guy with no extreme the random guy with no views wouldn't mind a hitler ruling his nation. Resistance requires radicals and extremists. Centrists wouldn't do that.
@@minecraftgravityguy I think it's a bit disingenuous to put it that way. Hitler says "kill all Jews", and some other guy says "kill all Nazis". One wants to kill innocent people while the other wants to stop the people who hurt the innocent. Just saying "you're all wrong" and refusing to elaborate isn't the best take, is it (I may be strawmaning here, please do point out if I'm wrong and your point isn't "everyone's equally right/wrong")? Sometimes, people are more right than others, and to deny that is a bit silly. A man who refuses to side with the lesser of two evils, is ultimately risking the chance of the most evil to win. Now, you might say "well, how do people know who's the lesser of two evils?" and that is a fair criticism of radicalism. My answer is that one can resort to scientific consensus, Hegelian dialect, the Socratic method, etc... to decide what course of action is the best. While that does not guarantee that they will make the best choice, the majority (if they *do* decide based on science and reason) will make the most reasonable, and thus, in my believe, the best choice. At the end of the day, please note that this is not an attack on you or your beliefs, but a slight criticism of what I believe to be some of the problems with centrism, and I am open to a civil discussion and changing my mind.
I’ll stick to games like ratchet and clank, spyro and uncharted. Back when games didn’t shove one political view in my face and claim i’m the problem for noticing the bias. I’m sorry for whatever bad things happened to make you feel this way.
On your last comment. At the end of the day I have nothing wrong with gay or trans representation in gaming, I just ask like in ww2 video games, that they remain true to real life. What do I mean? Let’s have a frontline female to male soldier representation equal what it was in ww2, which was roughly 1 in 1000, so I have no problem if 1 female shows up in a cod world at war game, but if it’s like 50% female that just doesn’t make sence to reality in a game trying to stay true to its inspiration. Same with gay and trans, they represent about 1% of the population, it’s only fair that we have 1% of characters be gay, 0.01% be trans ect. As that’s how it is in society, but nowadays it seems more like 10% are gay or trans in some video games which is just plain wrong, you leftists don’t just want representation, you want OVER representation, is that not true? Of course it is.
Nah there’s a difference between subtle political and over politicking video games with modern day politics… metal gear and fallout both have subtle politics which is why it’s still fun to play those games and I don’t take Hideo Kojima preaching so seriously especially when silly shit in metal gear happens
the union of mojave socialist republics will succeed. also metal gear solid is the most socialist sht ever tbh. kojima sings the praises of a united world of peace where the weak are protected and the capable contribute to society. also right wing video games i would say overall end up being considered artistically bad and i think thats fair
What I drew from your video is that we need to stop virtue signaling, and we need to stop with “woke” storytelling. We have to put more focus on centrist stories that look at multiple perspectives. I agree wholeheartedly.
Centrists are politically impotent idiots,and centrist art Only sterilises people. As a leftist, I'd rather watch outright fascist propoganda than centrist narratives because that bullshit will provoke you to act: centrist art is tye wireless vasectomy
and whats wrong with joing the army without them we would all be talking german yes the uk and us armys did bad things and what army has not its just dum
The absolute peak of the "no politics" shit is Ubisoft, who at this point turned it into their brand. They keep making games with deliberately politically charged themes and imagery and then saying "no politics here, sir!" when asked about it.
Did you own a gun? did your neighbor?
They seem like they want to but also don't want their sales negatively impacted. They straight up make a game about overthrowing the fascist leader of a fictionalized Cuba and then try to say it won't be political.
reminds me of in an interview activision said "call of duty modern warfare is about imperialism and colonialism" and then in another interview they said "oh no the game isnt political"
@@evanellis9178 How do you even make a game about war non-political?
@@swordhunter12 Make the writing and themes painfully cliche, boilerplate, and centrist. Instead of the plot having any overall motif or statement, make it have the most milquetoast take so that nobody even notices. A generic "war is hell" or "both sides are bad" will do fine
Art is social commentary, and social commentary is politics.
Yeah, good to see someone say this
My best friend from high-school introduced me to the Metal Gear Series. We talked about the horrors of war, passing on DNA and memes to further humanity, and how the war economy of 4 is just bonkers. Then, right after high-school, he joined the army and became a conspiracy theory nut. Wtf?!
Wtf?
It's a series about a small group of elites controlling the American government and manipulating information to guide the general public in a specific direction and you don't see how that would appeal to a conspiracy nut?
I like to think we're all one bad day away from taking horse tranqs
What the fuck, indeed.
At least now you know he didn’t understood MGS because god damn
“You predicted the future so well, people agree with it while being part of the problem they agree with” 😭😭
white people.
Yet, people still watch local news, tabloid shows, and reality shows.
Here from the hotline Miami 2 video. Honestly glad i didn’t call it a night and stop watching RUclips before I found that video. Keep up the good work
Watched the Hotline Miami video, watching the rest.
Sub earned
According to some gamers
NOT POLITICAL:
Military industrial complex
Militarization of police
Facism
Communism
Colonialism
Surveillance
Proxy wars
Social engineering
Institutional oppression
Digital information control.
WAY TOO POLITICAL:
Women
Gay
Black
If a gay person was a villain they would be ok with it. I mean villains are basically the sole ones who challenge the status quo
@@ashtimbogwell tbf, one of the best villains tv show, like gus, is gay and nobody minded
Metal Gear Rising: *TURN OFF MY POLITICS INHIBITORS*
I’m trying to make THE MOTHER OF ALL OMELETES here, jACK!!
No no, it isn't that people don't want a nuanced story showing the horror of war, they just don't want the only playable characters to have a half buzzed haircut and purple hair.
Disco Elysium is the best way to engage with multiple ideologies without having to deal with the people who actually believe them.
what do you mean?
@@newpracticei think he means the while DE has a very clear underline political massage, the game still lets you and even pushes you to choose an ideology and at all times will assure you its the right one and even reward you with an achievement for it.
You can practically play any ideology you want(e.g. communist, fascist) and the characters around you are yours to put to categories, when i see the supremacist i think its horrible but the next guy might see him and think he has a point and is a great fellow
"Why should I pay taxes!? THATS MY MONEY!!!!!" is the funniest thing I heard all week. Great video, hope your channel grows.
That would drive A liberal insane.
Off topic but I think consoles would have a bigger share in the market if they had more splitscreen co-op games coming. It’s something the PC can’t really replicate the same way and it’s a really big opportunity that Sony and Microsoft are missing out on.
I agree. PC replaces home consoles imo, except in regards to couch coop
Yeah, maybe they don't do it or don't encourage developers to do it is because they also gain money from online service subscriptions and think they would lose that income if people can play with other people without paying for an extra service.
That's very true.
I play a lot of co-op games with my partner on Switch and that's been a major if not the deciding factor for whether I buy games.
totally. why would we sell 1 xbox/phone/pc to 5 people when we could sell each of 5 people each of those things 😁
Big fan of how snappy your videos are. No fluff, no bullshit, nice visuals and production.
Love your work
Thank you!!!
My most hated thing is when people use the world "politics" to refer to literally anything outside the norm in a game, like having a trans protagonist isn't "politics" that's not what that word MEANS.
YO EXACTLY
if i agree with it it's not political, if i don't THEN it's political
Here's one I especially hate, "Being Black is Political" like you're just throwing out everything the character might have, and just focus on their race, not focusing on the character what so ever
So the trans movement has nothing to do with politics? Like at all?
@@walterwang4669 The trans movement is absolutely political. Nobody was talking about the trans movement. Just trans characters.
The point is that people conflate the very existence of certain ideas with political issues. For example, a game could be labeled as "feminist" for simply having a muscular woman in it.
@@michaelaeschbacher4648 ye this point wasn’t really that thought out, I concede.
"not to sound like a dumbass centrist" *video of critikal for some reason wink wink*
Please explain I don't get it
@@TheDude8008 Critikal is a decently known RUclipsr who is infamous for being really centrist and having a pretty toxic fandom because of that. His videos about weirdo transphobes making themselves look cringey in public are a good example of that - because *All* of the comments are transphobic af.
He also used to run (or still runs, I haven't seen it in a while tho) a podcast with a few reactionary-esq dudes, especially this weirdo angry Turkish guy who would explode into whiney rants about feminists or whatever halfway through the episodes.
@@RaeIsGaee when has he ever talked about the lgbt lol
@@godzilladude Do you not remember the video he did about the transphobic christian family stomping through walmart and screaming that they hate trans people.
@@godzilladude
I don't watch the guy but I remember him from like 14 years ago and he's uploaded vids on the daily for a long time too so there's no way he hasn't made 1 comment about LGBT stuff.
just wanted to clarify that when people say that all art is political, we're not saying that everything is as overtly political in the way that, say, Fallout is--we're more trying to point out that the circumstances behind art being created is inherently political. great example being Tetris, a game that has the least overt politics you can imagine, but was created in the Soviet Union and eventually sold outside of the SU as being "the game that escaped the iron curtain". another good example would be Metro: Last Light, which definitely has unmistakable political undertones, but is also a political creation from another perspective when you consider that the developers behind it did so despite having frequent power outages and having to work in below freezing offices (due to their government-run heating systems being borked).
this is not even beginning to get into how it is inherently political whether an independent solo dev or a massive corporation crafts a game. politics are not just electoralism or the social issues that someone deems debatable, even something like the environment which you or I may agree must be protected (even then, there are plenty of different kinds of environmentalism, and different ways that someone can become environmentalist, and that is all political in and of itself).
I feel like youre talking about the artist and not the art here.
Talking about the method of an art's creation and how the art is perceived is ascrelevant ascthe art and its intended contents. I do think death of the author applies in a lot of cases, but it is worth keeping the artist in mind as well. So yeah, no, they were talking about the art here.
Yes :³
"Using political themes to tell a story is not the same thing as shoehorning in contemporary politics to push an agenda"
That last line about throwing a hissy fit over gay and trans characters in games is so right. How is their inclusion a political stance? Because you as an individual don’t like them? Like, you and your experience as a person is not the only viewpoint in the world, other people that differ from you exist as regular people living their lives. Why is my literal existence in media “political discourse” lmao
Because when it isnt an indie game those characters are usually in games just for the sake of it
Think they are called token characters
i think their inclusion in AAA games can really vary, Fallout New Vegas has brilliant gay characters meanwhile overwatch removed tracer being gay in russia, one of these clearly care more about genuine diversity and the other is clearly just tokenism for woke consumer liberal points
@@Ovandal This is True Ending of stances on gay characters
@@spritepine5345 it's actually called "representation"
try again fam
@@GiordanDiodato some people genuinely cannot tell the difference between tokenism and representation its honestly just as funny as it is dissapointing
Amazing video, short, humorous and to the point, deserves way more views. People confuse “ideological message/narrative” with “political ladscape/discussion”. If you got people with different and/or conflicting world views and factions in your game it’s already got “politics”.
Spec Ops: The Line was made by a german developers. Good think, we know everything about war crimes, inhumanity, dehumanize others ... yeah ...
" I dont like politics in my videogames ! " - Random person
" Okay, thats cool, whats your favorite videogame? " - Me
" Bioshock 2 and Bioshock infinite ! " - Random person
... What
I'm perfectly fine with politics in video games when it's done well and works in the game. It's when politics get awkwardly shoved in that's a problem.
"Ummmm but Fallout DOESN'T COUNT because games back then didn't shove political messages in your face! They were subtle!"
Meanwhile, in reality, Fallout 2 has two NPCs at the end of the game that you talk to, right before the final boss, who are outright bad guys and preach conservative values to your face.
Then is Frank horrigan essentially saying "I am the military industrial complex minority, and you are gonna die"
You described it very well there: games, like any form of media, aren't only about entertainment but also having their fair share of politics which basically means social debates. But I disagree about a perfect world being only about harmony without politics. I find debates and discussions as well as finding the middle ground very important for a society with very different individuals. That's why I see a problem in polarised groups only living in their closed filtre bubbles.
A perfect world would have no division. Any conflict would also never arise.
In theory, but that couldn't realistically be acheived. The peace would have to be forcefully maintained both through the obscuring of alternatives and the enforcement of hegemony.
The debate over "politics in games" is a stupid pointless game of semantics which gives me a major headache and frankly I'm just sick and tired of it.
The entire debate is nothing but a question of semantics. "Politics" is an incredibly nebulous, ill-defined term that can be stretched to intersect with multiple other fields of study such as history, philosophy, economics and frankly a good majority of the entire human experience. When people complain about politics in games, I think what they mean is just the most baseline, simplistic definition of the term: contemporary, partisan, usually American political hot-button topics being ham-fisted into narratives and settings where it makes absolutely no god damn sense just because the writer wanted to preach to the audience.
There is a massive difference between something like New Vegas, with its multi-layered, nuanced commentary on the nature of humanity and in-depth examination of the various ideologies that inhabit post-nuclear America, and something stupid like making your evil dark lord an orange skinned ogre who plans to make his kingdom great again or something stupid like that. There is a massive difference between exploring a theme or topic and just preaching a message to your audience with no subtlety. And if I'm being brutally honest, I think there is a certain camp of people deliberately obfuscating the semantics issue I mentioned earlier because they just want to preach to the audience. The reason people don't complain about politics in New Vegas or Metal Gear is because they're competently written enough that the messages are woven into the narrative rather than just dictated to the player, and they are detached enough that multiple audiences can take what they want and apply the themes and messages to their own lives in some way.
I think society as a whole has become more divisive and bitter in recent years, with people more intent on screaming at each other over the internet than actually hearing out what people have to say. I think this has bled over into video games and actually just all forms of entertainment. "Escapism" seems to have become something of a dirty word, you're just not aloud these days to kick back and enjoy yourself for a bit. You have to constantly be thinking, 24/7, about whatever hot button political issues the internet tells you to care about and if you even think about just taking a fucking break you are a bad person. That's just not fucking healthy, I'm sorry but it isn't. People need a fucking break and it pisses me off that I see current American political issues (I'm not American btw) shoved into shit it has no right being in. There is just no fucking escape, no fucking break, just a constant 24/7 reminder that you should be angry about the world, always.
All of this has led me to a sad, frankly depressing notion: We will never get another game like New Vegas, ever. It's just not going to happen. A big part of the reason why that game was so awesome is because each and every group in that game is treated with some level of respect. Joshua Graham and his faith were treated with respect, the hyper-libertarian culture of the Boomers was treated with respect. Even the Legion as reprehensible as it was, was given a genuine at actually making its case for why it should be in charge of the wasteland. The writers of the game made an earnest attempt to get inside the heads of the characters and understand and portray their worldviews as accurately as possible.
But you're not gonna fucking get that anymore because its not enough to just call the game bad or poorly written, any kind of perceived problem is a reflection on the morality of the creators. Any attempt to portray any worldview that is controversial or disagreeable to the audience as anything other than cartoon bad guys is immediately treated as an endorsement of said worldview and prove that the creators are evil, bigoted human beings who must be
Oh and on the whole diversity thing, since the usual response to complaining about this stuff is to simply call the complainer a bigot and I wanna cover my bases. I'm not against gay or black characters being included in fiction. I'm against poorly written "diverse" characters being ham-fisted into a story where it makes no sense just to make the authors look good (look at Blizzard's celebration of "diversity" in their recent titles and the ongoing shitshow at their company for a perfect example of this. Or just compare Rey to Ellen Ripley. And New Vegas handled its gay characters well by treating them like actual human beings not defined solely by their sexuality.)
I've given up on games ever advancing as an art form, the dream is dead. Why bother making something even remotely controversial when you can just make a shitty microtransaction filled mediocre garbage fire and make ten times the money with none of the effort or risk to yourself? Reddit sucks, Twitter sucks, don't use them for the sake of your sanity.
J.R.R Tolkien famously hated allegory as a literary device. I'm gonna leave this quote here because I think he sums up my feelings on the matter more eloquently than I ever could.
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
This is just bad on so many levels. No one said you can't have "Escapism". You can't expect the developers to make works pandering to your interests in gaming, is all. Games are art, and art is inherently divisive. What you're complaining about is art being inspired by life, which is just silly. You can criticize a game without resorting to "it's pandering". That means nothing. Fallout is extremely pandering about it's anti capitalist message, if you think about it for one second. You can criticize the quality of the narrative, or the delivery of the message. Criticizing nebulous things just because you can't accept that what you really don't like is that the politics are against you is silly. Simple as.
@@radiofloyd2359 No, Outer Worlds is pandering in its anti-capitalist message. New Vegas lets you side with the biggest capitalist in the entire series (Mr. House) and lets the player make up their own mind how they feel about him. Pandering is hitting the audience over the head with a singular message and demonizing and strawmanning every opposing viewpoint presented.
@@MrPyroCrab New Vegas might. The rest of the fallout franchise is not. The entire premise of fallout is inherently anti capitalist, the fact you can't see it is not my problem. I've heard mixed things about how badly the outer worlds delivered it's message, so my guess is you're probably right that it's delivered in a dumb way, but fallout is as overt as they come with it's anticapitlism. Only New Vegas maybe doesn't immediately make it obvious why siding with an Anarcho capitalist is actual stupidity.
@@radiofloyd2359 Siding with House is not actual stupidity but that's besides the point.
Fallout 1 was primarily a story about stopping the Master and saving the Vault, nothing about capitalism there. Sure, maybe you could argue the Hub merchants being greedy has some kind of merit to it, but on the flip side if Gizmo takes over Junktown he actually ends up turning it into a thriving city precisely because he's good for business.
Fallout 2 had the Enclave, but while they were the remnants of the American government they weren't really "capitalist" per-se, the most overt example of anti-capitalism I can think of is Vault-tec's experiments but again, that isn't the primary focus of the game's story.
Bethesda Fallout doesn't count.
Sure, there's themes of corporate satire in there, but it ain't the primary focus of the series in the slightest. Fallout isn't an angry screed against capitalism, its more of a socratic exercise about the clash of ideologies and the cyclical nature of history, with a peppering of satire on American culture thrown in for good measure. That's not pandering, there's far more going on there than just "Capitalism Bad"
@@MrPyroCrab DUDE. THE FUCKING WORLD ENDED BECAUSE OF VAULT TECH.
That's literally the point of the story. The premise of the story is founded on a war for ressources caused very obviously by capitalism. The entirety of the fallout universe can be considered as a story of trying to move on from said capitalist system, and always being brought back. It's why there's always an emphasis on people trying to rebuild the old world.
they removed flags from clash of clans because people kept asking for an ukranain flag and to remove the russian one and vise versa. games that have nothing to do with politics are getting ruined
the parappa music made me think you were about to reveal how parappa the rapper is secretly right wing propoganda and idk if ive ever been so afraid in my life
his dad makes tools for the army and parappa himself has military training
wake up america!!!!
ALL media is inherently political, but people only think it is political when the politics displayed are against theirs.
yes bro politics = gay people my favourite games are the ones with ZERO wokeness or politics like the last of us and metal gear solid
The actual heck is this, your quality level is up there with the million subs accounts. Keep it up!
Mariokart’s item box system is socialist
Allocated according to need, such as people in last place getting the Bullet Bill :3
I really liked this. I think it's really difficult currently to enjoying video games. It's daunting realizing how many big studios don't want to take risks with their storytelling to have meaning/or tackle big social-political topics. I know it definitely does happen, especially within the indie scene, but I really wish these AAA companies would actually have more of a point than creating fun, big, maximalist approaches to games. I feel like within the AAA sphere everything has been an expansion from old Ubisoft open-world rock-star game design. Heck, as much as people enjoyed Ghosts of Tsushima that itself was more of the same in it's approach to game-design with a new coat of paint (the story was quite good tho)
Corporations win nothing by putting out divisive games. They have to appeal to the lowest common denominator, it's what makes money.
@@radiofloyd2359 it's all capitalism. people would rather make a mediocre product and gain tons of money than make a truly good and passion filled product if it means losing a couple million
it's why indie games usually have much more complex ideas and thought provoking endings because the people who made it all had an actual vision and wanted to see that vision come to life, not just "turn computer code into money"
@@jockeyfield1954 exactly.
@@jockeyfield1954once you gain the “I’m just trying to support my family/pay my bills” mentality, it’s almost impossible to escape that mentality
Thiiis. And the "no politics in mah vidya" crowd isn't making things any better. It's like gamers wan't their games to be regarded as art in the same way as films or books but at the same time start screeching "nooo why does this game have politics in it?! Games are supposed to be mindless fun!"
Bro this makes no sense, nobody cares about games that are started being based about politics or advertise based on that notion. What people hate is when suddenly a game about space ninjas fighting aliens suddenly starts placing a lgbt flags everywhere and banning any players that misgender a fucking a robot. *cough* warframe…. Some people just want to take
a break from reality and it’s pretty fuckin hard when all your favorite games keep shoving a narrative down your throat
What game has actually done that though? If you have to make up hypnotheticals to make your point its no better than a conspiracy or delusion.
Believe it or not, other people also like to take a break from reality, and it's nice when they getto play as someone they can relate to or look like. Seriously get a grip
I just hate when people with their superiority complexes try to act like a political game is nothing more than a political statement. I love MGS so much, and I respect the political commentary, but I also like when funny cat man spins funny guns.
In the 4X game, Humanity/Humankind, the description for when you research "Imperial Power: Formalizing the rights, obligations, and responsibilities of citizens, through laws or local administrators, permits the application of long-distance political power through non-violent means." 😬
And, good to hear about the Spec Ops one, I'll have to check that out.
centrists are also the ones who just want to consoom and complain about politics in games. also just because there are certain politics in games doesn't mean they can't be subverted and you have to follow the author's intentions and agree with him on every step of the way, different people can find the same thing good or bad, regardless if you realize the intentions of the author or not.
To me, whenever I say "Keep politics out of games", it's often because Me and many other gamers see new developers hijacking a lot of big-name, game series, especially in the west, and deliberately ploy sleight-of-hand tactics to inject their own political ideologies into games that don't really warrant it. Or if you're the Saints Row reboot, you drill the point home with the subtlety of a tank round.
As much as people would criticize the notion of Keeping Politics out of video games, I think there is also something to be said about the notion of "All art is political". I don't disagree that politics exist in games, but what I think people misinterpret, is that the politics work best in the context of the games they're in. Fire Emblem is a series that tackles Medieval Warfare and the politics within the realms of the games. Does this automatically mean that we are inclined to appropriate that to our daily lives? Must we subject ourselves to to forgo the fun and engaging military-tactics, to preach about how "X candiate is bad because he reminds me of a villain in (insert media)"?
The bottom line is that I mean it when I say that I don't want our Real Life politics in any of the games I play. (yes, even politics I agree with.) I'd find it equally as jarring if Mega Man fought Dr.Wily for the sake of "Building the Wall" as I would if he fought for the sake of "Dr.Wily said something Homophobic on his instagram."
I wouldn't say it's slight of hand if it's heavy handed ^^'
Besides New Vegas and Pathologic 2, I mostly play sandbox and micromanagement games which do oddly also often have some commentary on industry (often to hilarious effect), so mostly been absent from any example anyone might give about "modern politics" being shown in games.
@@SteppefordWife I mean, yeah, but again; Games can have a form of politics in them. But far too often in modern times do we see games transmogrify into sermons for an ideology that can really only represent a select few people.
As long as there is a line to be drawn the line will be pushed, no one chose their circumstances and circumstance coupled with the influence of people around them made them. We didn't get to pick and choose the cast, the pase, the rules, we didn't get to pick our starting place.
mgs fans joining the military is so perplexing to me, how do you miss the core message of the series this hard
It's not because the game conveys a message that we are obliged to agree with the message. That's what leftists don't understand. If a game conveys something you disagree with, just ignore the message. Besides, in a game, any message politics works, because reality is subject to the creator's hands, so his opinion will always come out "winning" in a game, so letting the message of a game influence reality is something for someone who has no critical sense.
@@Pedro-mo6cn at no point did i say you have to agree with the message of every game you play, im just saying its funny how people can play a game about the horrors of war and PTSD and have their main take away be "hell yea brother i want to go through that!" lol
I personally love politics as spectator or historian.
But I do agree that it sucks when you are down in the mud of it.
As a hardline right wing libertarian who has the first 2 Bioshock games in his top 20 or so, the irony is not lost on me.
4:08 Salamanca reference.
The reason because every form of art is more of less politcal is that politics only means ideas and messages, therefore everything that is made with/transmits a message is political
you couldn't understand something as simple as fallout 1&2 award
I am from 2022 and Russians from Russia have made the Steam review section utterly annoying to read exactly because of this delusional idea
Having some kind of politics is hard to avoid, the whole "Keep politics out of games" seem more concerned with what's perceived as glorification of a group or pandering to a specific group or ideology. Then you get something like the whole sexual identity debate of today often regarded as identity politics and boy oh boy, here we go into this shitshow again.
Further feeding into the narrative of divide by opinions while seeking validation from like-minded people, which the most vocal ones also tend to be some that push the narrative too far beyond reason.
The whole thing is quite tiresome, as the push for said pandering just reaches new levels of absurdity from either side as most people who take it too seriously just continues to double-down, push to extremes, ignore any good arguments and feed on those who support said narrative as validation.
What's really have to be debated is the actual quality of the content and it's presentation.
Can artistic mediums explore such things? Yes.
Does it always have to do it? Absolutely not.
Not to mention that I find it funny how I see so many people who want to be anti-estabilishment or anti-corporate, actively seeking validation from them, which speaks volumes to the lack of principles some people have.
horrible take. No matter how anti-establishment you are, everyone needs to be validated by society to some level. Fighting for the literal right to exist takes precedence over trying to dismantle the establishment. The establishment is also the one that enforces most of these stereotypes.
Second, I just don't believe there's forced diversity in gaming. There's really bad movies that are clearly trying to play the girlboss cards to sell tickets to stupid liberals, but that doesn't exist in gaming. Closest thing, TLOU2, has undeniable passion and a genuine interest to tackle it's themes, no matter how much it fails at it. I don't think you can call a game that risky a cash grab.
Finally, gaming is still largely pandering to males. Women are still more often than not just for the player's fantasies, and there's still a substantial underrepresentation of women in gaming. Trying to make this a "both sides are valid" argument, when one side is clearly against art is misguided.
@@radiofloyd2359 stereotyping women or a certain group of people isn’t the author’s fault, as he isn’t the one who treats people like you shouldn’t treat them, that’s the fault of the people who misinterpreted the content that they saw and thought that it was completely real.
Lets make a LONG example:
There is an autistic kid who reads a fantasy book where the main character has superpowers of every kind, and in one part of the book he stops a car at the street using his strength.
This kid believes that what he saw is real and that he is capable of doing that. One day, he goes shopping with his mother, and at one moment his mother gets distracted by a group of people. The kid sees this situation as an oportunity to try his powers, so he goes to the middle of the street and tries to stop a car with his bare hands. He gets hit by a car and dies.
Now, you might blame his parents for letting the kid read this kind of book, but lets say that it was a book meant for people from his age, and that its synopsis/reviews didn’t mention at any point that there were going to be people with superpowers.
All of this details mentioned above that might seem arbitrary at first, aren’t arbitrary at all. The autism that the kid has means that he isn’t completely able to discern reality. The distraction of her mother means that she can’t be responsible for what happened to him, as her distraction was other’s fault. And the age rating for the book is mentioned so that her parents aren’t responsible for giving the kid something that they shouldn’t give him, and also it is mentioned that it didn’t seem as a book with any kind of supernatural element on it that when tried on real life could get someone hurt.
So, everything happened because of three main things:
- The book was not what it seemed to be.
- The kid had autism.
- Events that where almost unpredictable.
Now, lets suppose that you go to the past knowing that this was going to happen. You don’t know where the kid lives, where the accident happened, but you are granted the ability -somehow- to force the author to change his book in order for people to not misinterpret it.
Lets also suppose that you are able to show the author the future that will happen if he doesn’t change his book. Let’s say that even though he knows the future, he refuses to change his book in order to save the child’s life.
Would it be moral to force him to do something against his will in order to prevent other things from happening? What happens if changing the book provokes bad feedback and a reduction of its sales? Would it be moral to save someone if it implies screwing others? Even though you might say that a life is more valuable than a book, what makes you morally able to impose that idea on others?
Great video and Every Day is Night near the end made me smile.
I think one reason why people tend to ignore mgs's overall anti-war message because there isnt really much of a penalty gameplaywise for killing tons of soldiers apart from getting a lower score mostly and the kills/deaths in the game are way too "clean" compared to a game like say manhunt so you arent exactly thinking about the absolute brutality or violence of war. If anything theres more of a cinematic and action-oriented approach that makes war look way cooler than its supposed to be
The reaction to Madeline is still hilarious to this day.
Honestly this video is great and I understand its only meant to be a brief rant but it does itch something thats never really talked about and its the idea that politics are a bad thing. In the modern age people see the word politics and immediately freak out and lose their minds without any real understanding of well anything. Just about everything is political in nature because everything is inherently ran ON politics. The more you try to ignore politics or just genuine intelligent conversation by remaining willfully ignorant the more you slowly become less of someone with any real viewpoint or thoughts of their own and more like what someone else tells them to be. It's a terrifying idea but the amount of people that are probably going to be personally offended by this statement only proves my point further. Politics aren't a bad thing. Wanting to take a break from being serious all the time isn't a bad thing either. But when someone would rather actively close themselves off from being more aware or being more intelligent? Thats where it gets concerning as a whole.
Its also really telling seeing what those types of people DEEM political. a lot of the times it's only political because it doesn't conform to THEIR political views, otherwise it's not political
they can then use this to vilify alternative opinions under the guise of "I don't want to get political", making themselves seem like the chill one.
@@Ovandal oh yeah this happens plenty. Plenty in the far right use this as a way to not only make them seem chill but also to normalise what they're spreading
@@realitytest7634 you are literally doing the same thing by calling out people on the far right
Gringo fanático de Fallout 3, 4 y 74 descubre que la política está involucrada en la mayoría de arte que consumimos, desde cómics, películas y videojuegos. Queda estupefacto:
Hard to believe I was adamantly anti politics in gaming. Now I'm all for it as long as it doesn't ruin the game or characters.
Edit: My fav game is also Hotline Miami 2 for fuck sake XD
I think politics can't ruin a game, but bad writing definitely can. A great comparison would be the outer worlds vs fallout new vegas, they have similar themes but new vegas's writing pulls it off with a lot of nuance. Meanwhile the outer world's shoves it down your throat in such a way that it becomes annoying at worst and just depressing at best
@@Ovandal I was mainly talking about how disingenuous big companies are when it comes to politics. Overwatch is a MASSIVE example. Not only do they brag about their diverse cast (something you shouldn't do if you actually give a shit about minorities), they also use them as a marketing ploy and more recently, this was before we found out they mistreated minority employees btw.
When Indie Devs/companies add minority characters (Celeste, Hollow Knight, Undertale, Iconoclast are the best examples I can think of), it feels more genuine since it's just a few people or one person creating their vision. But, when companies like Blizzard do it, it's clearly fake due to what we know what goes on behind the scenes. Although I knew Blizzard was fake before that happened.
Oh yeah I 100% agree on that, diversity in big AAA titles is almost always a shallow marketing ploy, again New Vegas has the best gay characters I've seen in a game and is one of the few big titles I can think of that I genuinely believe has good intentions with their diversity
also sidenote: i met the devs for iconoclasts ages ago at eurogamer expo 2015, they're cool people!!!!
@@Ovandal It's mostly about Diversity is when people start complaining. Another example I can think of which isn't diversity related was the very subtle gun control message in Subnautica. (As you can tell, I'm a massive Indie fanboy XD).
@@smugglefish8171 wait who was a minority character in hollow knight?
Politics doesn't only exist because "people are not happy"; it exists to protect successful people's positions in society.
The politics of hegemony do. But to say all politics consolidates and preserves current power steuctures is to disregard progressive and revolutionary movements such as feminism, socialism, communism and anarchism.
If politics are what everyone wants in their entertainment, then why isn't C-SPAN the most popular TV network ever?
I'm fine with politics in games. My issue comes when it's covered in a biased way. That's part of why I like New Vegas so much, every faction has their own reasoning and justification in some way. Well, the major factions at least, not so much the generic bad ones like the Powder Gangers and raiders.
You can argue how fucked up the legion is with its slavery, but it's own fucked up way it does work and for the most part, the people within it are safe, as shown by the caravan companies siding with legion as they protect them
You can argue how the NCR is ineffective and full of cracks, but at least democracy is upheld and outside of the Mojave where they're spread far too thin to properly manage things, most people in the NCR live a pretty normal life.
When most people say "keep politics out of games" chances are they're not asking for a removal of politics all together, more so biased, one-sided politics that usually boils down to "my side good, your side bad". Not to say some of those people wouldn't support that on the other way around, but still.
rethink that bit on the powder ganster cause youve beem biased by cobb. The poweder gangsters were doing slave labor on behalf of an mean old govt. they freed themselves but they dont just raid or fuck with anyone. Sure some factions of the gang are just plain raiders, and they are assholes imo but the main group the faction hates specifically the NCR and the Trade Barons and raids them not only for their sustinence but alos for politic rasons. tank u for comineg ted talk
Nah the Powder Gangers are based
Not all art can or should be colorless. Would you argue that book authors should not be influenced by their political ideologies? Do you get annoyed when you read Animal Farm? "Darn it! I just want to read about the cute animals!!" Do you think the new Wolfenstein games should cut the nazis some slack?
Could you give an example of biased / one-sided politics on videogames?
I can't believe I actually fell at some point for the "the Legion had a point, actually". They're literally just the evil faction, but with a facade of a genuine goal and justifications. Fascism 101.
This video embodies media iliteracy. 😂
"Politics" nowadays is usually a cover-up term, which translates to "the politics I, me specifically, don't like."
Give me political and social commentary. Be a valuable form of artistic expression. But, you're not getting my standing ovation unless it's decently written, presented, and/or integrated well.
Hey.
You do some pretty good stuff.
And your avatar is charming.
Keep at it, live your best life :3
If that's the case we should keep out lgbbq stuff out of games also because theres also no religious stuff in games so as they say, EQUAL RIGHTS EQUAL FIGHTS!
Glad to not be a centrist if it means i dont have to pretend people who are wromg somehow arent wrong and just have opinions
What many mean is politicking, they don't want that to happen to gaming, games, and or gamers; In think this is category error ironically rooted in bad civics. We often don't even have civics class in schools, wherever they are if they are in a electoral parliamentary democracy, which would inoculate so many of us from smoothbrained tags like that you showed really early
i think people mean non-story relevant politics like the blizzard diversity wheel n stuff when they want politics out of games, as in they are okay with a political story but not okay with political "propaganda"
If the cast of overwatch was all white, would that be propaganda? Would that be politics?
Or do you think it's just politics when someone is a woman, black or gay?
@@Junebug89 EletricKitty is referring diversity hires, A practice that hires employees based on their skin color instead of their qualifications. I don't know about you but I don't view it as empowering or progressive that they would hire someone for something they have no control over.
I'll have you know, if I want politics in my video games then I'll gladly indulge in it; Mario isn't even a plumber.
Fuck politics.
ruclips.net/video/zYhVBSuJgS8/видео.html
Molluck the Glukkon: "There are no politics in Rapturefarms, even though we are plotting to kill our employees to revitalize our profits, because the beasts we have been systematically killing and turning to sweets are near extinct."
The Memes army is small and can win the battle but some of Memers use meme for war and make an hate speech so i know my country is small too but she is out of the biggest grand countries.
In my opinion, you heavily misunderstood what "keep politics out of games" means. As you said, to a certain degree, it's impossible to separate politics from any art from. It's about treating all viewpoints with respect and most importantly, nuance (like new Vegas). And not make a game that's basically propaganda and makes one side the dumb bad guys
Your channel will blow up. Be prepared.
To anyone who finds this: if you are wondering why nearly everyone has politics in it, take a long look at what happened in 2001
I hope this isn't rude, but the first time I learned about the economy and the government was in pokemon. If people say that politics should not exist in games, I'd say that'll ruin pokemon(in my personal opinion, I respect people who don't think that it is because that's the beauty of pokemon. Its mostly fun regardless of perspective.)
Tldr 'if you don't want propaganda pushed on you in games then you are an (random insult)'. Stunning and brave RUclipsr.
*propaganda is when I see people who look different to me
Yo mate banger channel
i will always simp for house, now still killing daddy from the end of "dogeball" please
3:00
This hurts to hear
I'm not sure what this says about me tbh
Really really loving your channel
keep politics
keep political agenda out
Theres a rigth way to have politics in games, there the ones who make you think and the propaganda, those a boring and I hate that
TLDR, I like when a game is political but doesn't try to morally imply "this guy good ending,this guy bad ending",something that most political games fail at doing
Let me clear out things for you:I think most people hate when a game gets political but tries to imply who's right and who's wrong,but when a game gets political but lets you take part of all sides and there is no objectively good ending like in most fallout games,I think that's when a political game is the best,there are no "perfect utopia" ideologies,I don't care if you are a greedy capitalist or a stupid larping tankie,I love new vegas so much because all endings are kind of a mixed bag,just to remind you that there is no "goodie and baddie",all endings have positive and negative consequences,even siding with caesar has its benefits,you made roads safer for merchants but at what cost?slavery becoming the norm? it's a super boring argument really,but at the end of the day humans are a mixed bag and we have all done good and evil,this is why I'm a centrist and I dislike both extremes.Also borders are there to protect you and communism is dogshit but whatever,still nice content
positive: life easier for capitalists
Negative: slavery
“Idk all has its positives and negatives tho”
You’re a dumbass🥴
It's a lot of words to describe why gamersTM are susceptible to false equivalence
Power changes everyone
You're right and you should say it
Great perspective, often the reasoning political tie ins are missed. I'm so tired of X and Y country, are against each other, you must join them together; oh no the villain is a psychopath and has a emotionally damaged past... it's so predictable.
the whole politics in video game thing is a really mixed bag for me bc you have HUGE "political"(quoting this bc this should not be political but just HUMAN issues but for some reason we think they are political) issues for example global warming but except for those gigantic problems you have political issues that are difference from country to country so it can never really work unless your game is limited to one specific place like how fallout applies to america a lot but it doesn't apply to other countries on this god forsaken planet, but at the same time you have the Simpson( or futurama either or) who have a lot of parodies of curren modern issues that still apply to this day to a lot of countries so it still kind of works,
anyway i only play cookie clicker now bc there is too many political issues to be able to have enough video games covering them all
Disco Elysium is my favorite example of politics in games. It is an EXTREMELY political game, one of the most political i have played in fact, but it handles it with grace and show the good and bad of every ideology, letting the player decide what they align with and what they believe in
I still can't belive that there is a game that almost got me to subscribe to the pseudo intellectual, borderline pro eugenic ideas of a guy called Measurehead just so I could press a button. And honestly DE by proxy through Kim or...the inner workings of your/Harry's own mind... calls you out so much if you decide to go batshit with your politics just so you can get something out of a game. It's brilliant.
align with racism
This is very well thought out, and well executed content.
You seem very intelligent and I enjoyed your take on this, but why the hate on centrists lol.
Often times centrists are individuals who, yes are good at being able to see both sides, but lack the ability or desire to make meaningful change.
This puts people off of the idea a lot, which to me personally, does make sense.
I'd rather have a dead hard Villan than a in-between spectre in this wacky world.
@@deadlynicky So its better to have hitler than a random guy with no extreme views? This kind of radical thinking is what has made our society so divided and extremist in recent years.
@@minecraftgravityguy the problem with the random guy with no extreme the random guy with no views wouldn't mind a hitler ruling his nation.
Resistance requires radicals and extremists. Centrists wouldn't do that.
@@minecraftgravityguy I think it's a bit disingenuous to put it that way. Hitler says "kill all Jews", and some other guy says "kill all Nazis". One wants to kill innocent people while the other wants to stop the people who hurt the innocent.
Just saying "you're all wrong" and refusing to elaborate isn't the best take, is it (I may be strawmaning here, please do point out if I'm wrong and your point isn't "everyone's equally right/wrong")? Sometimes, people are more right than others, and to deny that is a bit silly.
A man who refuses to side with the lesser of two evils, is ultimately risking the chance of the most evil to win.
Now, you might say "well, how do people know who's the lesser of two evils?" and that is a fair criticism of radicalism. My answer is that one can resort to scientific consensus, Hegelian dialect, the Socratic method, etc... to decide what course of action is the best. While that does not guarantee that they will make the best choice, the majority (if they *do* decide based on science and reason) will make the most reasonable, and thus, in my believe, the best choice.
At the end of the day, please note that this is not an attack on you or your beliefs, but a slight criticism of what I believe to be some of the problems with centrism, and I am open to a civil discussion and changing my mind.
But donkey kong 64 is about tearing down the crocodilian monarchy! thats kinda political, they should play pong instead!
I’ll stick to games like ratchet and clank, spyro and uncharted. Back when games didn’t shove one political view in my face and claim i’m the problem for noticing the bias. I’m sorry for whatever bad things happened to make you feel this way.
Spyro? The game with Mr. Moneybags? Are you serious?
qualunquismo
On your last comment. At the end of the day I have nothing wrong with gay or trans representation in gaming, I just ask like in ww2 video games, that they remain true to real life. What do I mean? Let’s have a frontline female to male soldier representation equal what it was in ww2, which was roughly 1 in 1000, so I have no problem if 1 female shows up in a cod world at war game, but if it’s like 50% female that just doesn’t make sence to reality in a game trying to stay true to its inspiration. Same with gay and trans, they represent about 1% of the population, it’s only fair that we have 1% of characters be gay, 0.01% be trans ect. As that’s how it is in society, but nowadays it seems more like 10% are gay or trans in some video games which is just plain wrong, you leftists don’t just want representation, you want OVER representation, is that not true? Of course it is.
That's because you are thinking of domestic politics
Nah there’s a difference between subtle political and over politicking video games with modern day politics… metal gear and fallout both have subtle politics which is why it’s still fun to play those games and I don’t take Hideo Kojima preaching so seriously especially when silly shit in metal gear happens
Thank you for summing up my thoughts. gamers are some of the most insufferable people. obviously not all, but man.
Mr. House hater detected. 🤝 well met friend
the union of mojave socialist republics will succeed. also metal gear solid is the most socialist sht ever tbh. kojima sings the praises of a united world of peace where the weak are protected and the capable contribute to society. also right wing video games i would say overall end up being considered artistically bad and i think thats fair
I don’t mind politics but there just bad for business
Did you just not watch the video?
Games with polotical ideologies are usually the best selljng ones
Fnv is mad successful
Can we all agree that people who say "everything is political" come off as pretentious wankers?
cough cough synthetic man cough
Bravo* not Brovouw
Kojima* not Kouwdjimer
Dude the premise of the game is nuclear war… you can’t avoid politics. Deal with it
Too bad,that dude probably have media iliteracy.
What I drew from your video is that we need to stop virtue signaling, and we need to stop with “woke” storytelling. We have to put more focus on centrist stories that look at multiple perspectives. I agree wholeheartedly.
Probably should have finished the video before commenting, huh.
Centrists are cucks
Centrists are politically impotent idiots,and centrist art Only sterilises people. As a leftist, I'd rather watch outright fascist propoganda than centrist narratives because that bullshit will provoke you to act: centrist art is tye wireless vasectomy
@@shahsadsaadu5817 Does Centrist art even exist?
and whats wrong with joing the army without them we would all be talking german yes the uk and us armys did bad things and what army has not its just dum
nothing wrong with joining the army it's just kinda weird to join it because of metal gear
@@kieronrana5233 fair but anygame movie or anything can inspire you to do anything tbh
Omg i wish i knew german
Based