Check out the Merch Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/ Apex Gaming PC: apexgamingpcs.com/products/growling-sidewinder Thank you guys for watching and if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.
Apparently the aim 174b can be fired via datalink. The awacs can guide the missiles whether the hornet can see you or not. Other fighters and surface radars can guide it as well
@@mikeyplayzwrldthe aim174b doesn't fit with the f35s. The current goal is to use f35s to get up close to the enemy to provide a fire solution for the aim174b, carried by the older f18s.
It would have garnered MORE respect if he gave the other guy a warrior's death, rather than succumbing to one, himself. While I acknowledge that we don't always have a choice in these things, we can still recognise one outcome as being preferable to the other.
I think where the AIM-174B could be really deadly is they could use it to snipe assets like AWACS, tankers, transports, and C&C aircraft from stand-off distances.
It should be noted that the Standard without the booster has a longer length (~15.5 feet) compared to the Phoenix (~13 feet). It is likely the F-14 Tomcat would have carried four AIM-174Bs, two underneath the fuselage and two underneath the wing pylons.
Unlikely. 6 AIM-174s is roughly the same weight as 10 Phoenixes and the Tomcat could only just barely operate with 6 Phoenixes. Plus, the AIM-174 is significantly longer than the Phoenix, so even just fitting 6 of them on the pylons would probably be impossible.
F18 just turning into another missile truck, because this missile can be guided by datalink OR any aegis capable platform, so f35s, ticos, anything that can see the target can just use this missile to hit stuff if the f18 gets within launch range
Yeah. I think using the Super Hornet as basically a mobile launch platform for this missile, with datalink guidance from more forward F35s would be an almost unstoppable force. Fat Amy can launch from a carrier, get in close without being detected. The Super Hornet trucks in the extreme range missiles from the back to take out anything in the air. I’d imagine SEAD would be possible/great with these too. Considering their origin.
The thing about the Raptor is that it's capabilities is so under represented here. A former F15/F-22 pilot named Mike "Dozer" Shower once did a test of 2 Raptors (don't know who the other pilot is) VS. 8 F-15s. They killed all 8 F-15s. The F-15 pilots were asking, "Where you at?". They were 1 mile behind them and they couldn't be seen. These F-15 pilots were combat experienced and tried to use tactics but all died anyway. This is before the Raptors were upgraded. He also talked about a 4 ship F22 VS. a 12-ship F-15 head to head and they killed all 12 F-15s in 2 minutes. "Dozer" said that when the F-22s sensors get you and the planes "talk" to each other, it was nearly untouchable. There's so many things we don't know about the Raptor that is never shown here for obvious reasons, but now knowing that it can "talk" to other F-22s is pretty cool for us and scary for adversaries. What they show here is funny to me with everyone able to "see" the Raptor all the time.
a similar thing makes the F35 absolutely bonkers as a modern warfare platform, the planes act as a sort of hive-mind with how they share information between one another
Happened at the first red flag the f22 pulled up to. Since then tactics have been developed to mitigate the stealth advantage and it’s not as one sided as before…
Keep in mind the F18 had very good ground and high altitude radar support as well as datalink, that's what spotted the F22 not the F18s radar. Also the F22 wasn't spiked until 30nm miles from the F18, which is pretty close considering all that radar.
Maybe the rcs is lower than what we know,but other than that the f-22 is represented as best as it could be in dcs. It doesn't have secret alien technology
If he had a data link with a US Navy surface ship with the AN/SPS-49 air search radar it would give him a big help. That powerful L Band radar has proven pretty effective at detecting "stealth" platforms.
I think the super hornet should had climb high up over 20miles and shoot the missile to give more range. He stayed low the whole time knowing he got a longer range missile that was a pilot error
Problem is if Rhino got up high, Raptor would be able to shoot it down even with "just" AMRAAMs (and I don't think those quotation marks could possibly be overemphasized) before Raptor got detected. That's what makes stealth fighters so dominant.
@@NLozar22 Only to a point, that AAMRAM still gotta climb and that takes a lot of energy too while the 174 is starting in thin air, then descending at the end. I'd like to have seen the hornet press before firing more, GS was going cold well outside the MAR of the AMRAAM so one 174 to send him defensive, ignore the incoming AAMRAM, as GS said, its not a threat, press to close to inside the 174s MAR (but outside the AMRAAMS MAR) as the F22 defends the first, send another 174. Never let the F22 get offensive.
@@guyb7995 The situation in this video was that Rhino's problem was detecting the Raptor, while Raptor's problem was getting close enough for a high Pk shot. If Rhino was up high, so would be the Raptor. It wouldn't make sense for Raptor to shoot upward. Remeber, while Rhino is fairly low observaible (stealthy by Russian standards), Raptor would still detect it way before it would be detected itself, thus it could place itself in the most advantageous position well in advance. And Raptor could be a lot faster than Rhino with four AIM-174s and two tanks futher improving the Pk of its AMRAAMs. (I have serious doubts AIM-174s can be carried in pairs per pylon. One AIM-174 is about 2000 lbs.) So Raptor would certainly get the first shot and it would be quite a high Pk one at that before Rhino could detect it, especially with Delta AMRAAMs (the ones in the videos are Charlies, I believe). In other words / TL;DR: The reason Rhino wanted to force low altitude fight was because at low altitude, Raptor is forced into the detection range of Rhino's radar before it can shoot its AMRAAMs effectively. But at high altitude, Raptor could handily shoot lethal AMRAAMs well before it would even be itself detected (maybe even if Rhino itself was low). Again, that's what makes (proper) stealth fighters so dominant.
@@NLozar22 The 18 had more assists and could lock on at 30 miles or so, so it could still afford to be a bit higher, not 40K ft but higher for sure. Then still press the 22, descending between shots to bleed the AMRAAM, but remember the 174 has like twice the range, so as long as you are outside its MAR and can detect the 22, which will be inside your MAR, you should win.
I remember way back in about 1984 or so brainstorming with a GMM shipmate of mine about if this could be done with the SM-2 ER like we carried on USS Preble DDG-46. Apparently we were ahead of our time but back then the F-14 and the AIM-54 Phoenix were still around. It was in the middle of a long Indian Ocean deployment and we had a lot of time on our hands for stuff like that!
Yeah, imagine a video where its SU-57s + some odds and ends attempting to defend an AWACs or tanker against some US craft defending whatever missile truck is being used to snipe at the target, or some variation there. It wouldn't even need to be Raptors, using regular fighters could prove to be pretty interesting
I'd love to see the AIM-174B mated to the F-15EX. It would seem to be virtually purpose-built for that job of carrying massive amounts of ordnance and flinging it at extreme ranges against datalinked targets.
A datalink weapons lock is going to be a big deal for long range missiles like this. However the F22 is still designed to handle such situations with such a small radar cross-section.
I have to wonder how much these impact the performance of a F/A-18? Kind of makes you wish we had the Tomcat 21, if it could carry 6 Phoenix it could probably also carry 6 of the AIM-174.
You'd think a 100+ mile missile would easily have the energy to hit you at 20-30 miles. Really didn't know that the range was impact to that extent by flying low. Great vid.
At sea level, air resistance is 1,000 millibars. At 100,000 ft, it's only 10 millibars. The way missiles achieve long range is by climbing up where there's no air resistance; when those same missiles are forced to function at 10k or 20k ft, they're not long range any more.
@@mrgoober6320 the bar/milibar is a measure of air pressure, not resistance or density, my friend. Air resistance is measured in newtons, air density - in kilograms per cubic meter. At sea level, the standard air density is approximately 1.225 kg/m³. At 10,000 feet, it is roughly 0.905 kg/m3. So the difference is nowhere near as large as you imply.
@@johnnyenglish583 Air resistance is a function of velocity, so it can't be evaluated by altitude alone. And air density and air pressure are directly related; at 100,000 ft, both air pressure and air density are ~1% of their expected value at sea level. This is basic physics.
I wonder if it would be a better tactic to shoot the 174, then close in fast behind it, and keep firing as your closing. It seems as if the missile has no trouble tracking the F-22, but the ranges he was firing at was just a little too far.
Any news on an AIM-260 for DCS? I know you tried them before but they were kinda quirky off the rail and didn't seem to be able to hit anything. I'd like to see the AIM-174 or a functional AIM-260 on an aircraft that can make the most of it. The AIM-174 definitely enhances the capabilities of the Hornet, but I don't feel the Hornet realizes the full potential of the AIM-174. The Hornet is just too slow. It is like giving the SDMR to the worst marksman in the squad. A truly long-range missile on an Eagle or Viper, something that can get high and fast enough to realize the potential of the missile so that both the aircraft and the missile bring the best out of each other would be nice.
Very good BVR match GS and Golf. Great flying! It reminded me of the time when GS flew against the MiG-21Bis in an F-16 insofar as previous gen fighters with upgrades and new missiles can actually compete with the newer gen fighters for a while. Neat.
It's hard to tell if it's just the missile gaining/losing lock or not, but it sure seems like the DCS F-22 has a nasty RWR blind arc above and below the horizontal wing plane.
The problem with merely increasing the missile size, is that you also increase the missile's inertia. That means that the missile is going to want to keep going in whatever direction it's already going, which means that it's going to have a hard time hitting a small, manoeuvring target.
Once the SU-57s hypersonic kills the F-18s AWACS, it’s over. The hornet can’t guide the Aim-174 by itself very well. And the Su-57 is just a better BVR fighter than the hornet.
No it wasnt, the oponent was not using his range advantage and firing from way too long of a distance... When you outrange the oponent you do t fire at the edge of your capability but just beyond of the capability of the oponent... If AMRAAM at that altitude has 10miles MAR and your weapon has 20 you fire at 12-15 not at 25... He should have started with wpending his AMRAAMS first for the opening low PK shots just to prevent Raptor from pushing him then fire the SM-6 inside the MAR but outside of GSs MAR...
F35 would be the more likely companion for a superhornet with 174Bs. They can sit 100+miles away and sling missiles at targets. Pretty cool. But as others have said, probably not going to be used in a fight like this. Take down awacs etc
Question, I'm not a DCS player, Do all these fight scenarios start from a cold start every time? Some are BVR and others are the merge, do they just start each time in flight or on the ground?
GS hoping his AMRAAMs shoot down the AIM-174Bs makes me wonder if the Peregrine missile in development could be used as a self defense missile. Raptor could carry 4 AIM-260s and 4 Peregrines (assuming two Peregrines can fit where one AIM-120/260 is mounted), use the AIM-260s offensively, and maybe use the Peregrine to shoot down enemy missiles.
Now I'm wondering what happens when you strap one of these missiles... on the Raptor. Or the F35. Maybe that could be a super interesting fight, F35 with SM-6 vs F22 with AMRAAMs.
I think the Navy will use them passively, by triangulation, using two IRST21 pods in a couple of SH, to geolocate stealth fighters and direct the missile until the end without the use of radar.
You have very interesting videos of the new missiles. Please tell me. Where can I get mods for aircraft and missiles that you show in the videos? I would very much like to evaluate F-22 and F-18 with these missiles in TacView.
I see everyone talking about being able to guide the 174's from different platforms. See if it's possible to cook up a mission to where there's an entire strike-fighter squadron of F/A-18Fs holding like 4-6 AIM-174s which are guided by an AWACS, F-35C, Patriot or something to conduct air patrol and take out an entire enemy fighter wall while a fleet of F/A-18Es conduct a strike on a nearby airbase, taken over city, or any enemy territory. This would be a pure NAVY Mission with all fighters including the AWACS taking off from a Super Carrier.
@@Mike_Romeo It can be simulated though, those AIM174s wouldve killed GS had enough energy. He couldve told us that the he had the Patriot or AWACS guiding them just for fun...
The hornet should have fired his aim120 before firing his last aim174, that way he could have given you false information on what missile he shot before firing his last aim 174 at a much closer range which could having given him the win, great fight tho
Although probably not modeled accurately in DCS, I wonder how the changing aspect of the F-22 affects its radar signature. For example, does notching (giving the missile a side view) give that missile a stronger radar contact to track?
If he had roughly double the MAR, why wouldn't he have let you close to that fire his last missile or two.... since you had to eventually. Maybe fire off an Amraam instead of that last 174 to fool you.
I'm pretty sure if you had tried to be aggressive earlier on that first or second 174-B would have caught you. I would like to see you doing scenarios(with missiles not just guns) where you're forced to push forward so we can see the difference between being defensive and aggressive or even reckless. I think it would be a good showcase of how difficult and counterintuitive(to me) air to air combat is.
Because if he climbs he will be in range of my AMRAAMs cuz I can see him as he is not stealth I can shoot at him outside the range that he can detect me. Only way to bring me in closer so he can detect me is to stay low altitude (reducing my missiles range)
@@GrowlingSidewinder Is it that big of a margin though? Also you detected him at about 40 miles anyway. Could he have detected you farther out if he had greater altitude?
@@GrowlingSidewinder Sorry, Never mind. I understand now. Its all about the range of the F18 tracking radar. Being higher up would only compound the issue.
I know I could have seen him from as far as 80-120 miles if I wanted to, I only saw him at 50+ miles cuz thats when I turned my radar on and looked for him. He on the other hand did not detect me until about 37 miles and thats with all the help he was getting. So ya I believe the margins are pretty large. If he was flying at 30000 feet, I would have gone up there with him, launched at 60 miles and he would have died before he even saw a blip of me on his radar.
Can the F-22 carry the AIM-174 yet? Imagine seeing the F-22 at 250 miles, waiting for that juicy lock and giggling at your insane luck. Then it disappears. ten minutes later 4 guys in your flight disappear in balls of fire.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Yes, but it has stealthy external hardpoints coming. So Will it be able to fire and regain most of it's stealth profile once the non-stealthy missiles are gone?
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Thank you guys for watching and if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.
Hey dude you do know exactly how that seeker head works 😂 because it’s the aim-120D seeker head 😂😂😂😂😂😂
NGAD vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-57 vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-47 vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-47 vs SU-57, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
SU-47 vs NGAD, dogfight, guns or missiles (or both) plzkthx
U should do a video F/A-18 vs, Su-57 with Aim-174B SM-6 missile ❤❤
@@Anarchy_420 I not talking about Aim-120d missile I was talking about Aim-260 missile 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾❤️❤️
You know we need uploads of all 356 scenarios (regarding jet vs jet) with this thing
..
I need the f-15 to get revenge on the Mig 31 on this channel
Apparently the aim 174b can be fired via datalink. The awacs can guide the missiles whether the hornet can see you or not. Other fighters and surface radars can guide it as well
Of course! It's 2024!
F-35s can also provide datalink. Rumors are that they’re fitting the C with them.
It's called the Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT)
Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL)
@@mikeyplayzwrldthe aim174b doesn't fit with the f35s. The current goal is to use f35s to get up close to the enemy to provide a fire solution for the aim174b, carried by the older f18s.
@@mikeyplayzwrld the f-35 is getting insane
"He was looking for a warrior's death, and that's what he got"
Respect.
>>Presses F to Pay respects
@@vividthespis F
F
f
It would have garnered MORE respect if he gave the other guy a warrior's death, rather than succumbing to one, himself. While I acknowledge that we don't always have a choice in these things, we can still recognise one outcome as being preferable to the other.
I think where the AIM-174B could be really deadly is they could use it to snipe assets like AWACS, tankers, transports, and C&C aircraft from stand-off distances.
Agree. Engaging inside of 100 nm defeats the purpose of the AIM-174 - very long range "reach out and smoke someone".
They're supposed to be employed in conjunction with the sniper pods, which could push the range out to 200 miles.
Like the r-37m
@@Russell_searsisn't the Sniper Pod an EO targeting pod?
What am I missing?
My understanding was this was one of the main purposes of the f35 as well was to use its stealth to get close to lead in fires
GrowlingSidewinder, can you strap 6 AIM-174B’s to the F-14B Tomcat? That would be an absolutely sick “updated F-14” video.
It should be noted that the Standard without the booster has a longer length (~15.5 feet) compared to the Phoenix (~13 feet). It is likely the F-14 Tomcat would have carried four AIM-174Bs, two underneath the fuselage and two underneath the wing pylons.
Unlikely. 6 AIM-174s is roughly the same weight as 10 Phoenixes and the Tomcat could only just barely operate with 6 Phoenixes. Plus, the AIM-174 is significantly longer than the Phoenix, so even just fitting 6 of them on the pylons would probably be impossible.
I was thinking exactly this, although I never gave any thoughts to a loadout of 6 of them for all the reasons said. Those AIM-174's are big fellas.
@@hawkeye2816 Now six of them on an F-35 or F-15EX is very possible since both have weight tolerances of over 20,000lbs in payload.
That F22 is just incredible. Good to see the SM-6's on here too.
F18 just turning into another missile truck, because this missile can be guided by datalink OR any aegis capable platform, so f35s, ticos, anything that can see the target can just use this missile to hit stuff if the f18 gets within launch range
On a long enough timeline everything ends up a missile truck.
Yeah. I think using the Super Hornet as basically a mobile launch platform for this missile, with datalink guidance from more forward F35s would be an almost unstoppable force. Fat Amy can launch from a carrier, get in close without being detected. The Super Hornet trucks in the extreme range missiles from the back to take out anything in the air. I’d imagine SEAD would be possible/great with these too. Considering their origin.
Super Hornet: "Was I a joke to you?"
Raptor: "No. You were a warrior."
SM-6s have an anti-ship capability.
Would like to see a mixed attack on surface ships and aircraft
According to GS, an AMRAAM is an anti everything missile. Nice to see the Navy apply that logic to the antiship missiles they already have.
The thing about the Raptor is that it's capabilities is so under represented here. A former F15/F-22 pilot named Mike "Dozer" Shower once did a test of 2 Raptors (don't know who the other pilot is) VS. 8 F-15s. They killed all 8 F-15s. The F-15 pilots were asking, "Where you at?". They were 1 mile behind them and they couldn't be seen. These F-15 pilots were combat experienced and tried to use tactics but all died anyway. This is before the Raptors were upgraded. He also talked about a 4 ship F22 VS. a 12-ship F-15 head to head and they killed all 12 F-15s in 2 minutes. "Dozer" said that when the F-22s sensors get you and the planes "talk" to each other, it was nearly untouchable. There's so many things we don't know about the Raptor that is never shown here for obvious reasons, but now knowing that it can "talk" to other F-22s is pretty cool for us and scary for adversaries. What they show here is funny to me with everyone able to "see" the Raptor all the time.
What the heck, that is crazy. And cool af
a similar thing makes the F35 absolutely bonkers as a modern warfare platform, the planes act as a sort of hive-mind with how they share information between one another
Happened at the first red flag the f22 pulled up to. Since then tactics have been developed to mitigate the stealth advantage and it’s not as one sided as before…
Keep in mind the F18 had very good ground and high altitude radar support as well as datalink, that's what spotted the F22 not the F18s radar. Also the F22 wasn't spiked until 30nm miles from the F18, which is pretty close considering all that radar.
Maybe the rcs is lower than what we know,but other than that the f-22 is represented as best as it could be in dcs. It doesn't have secret alien technology
If he had a data link with a US Navy surface ship with the AN/SPS-49 air search radar it would give him a big help. That powerful L Band radar has proven pretty effective at detecting "stealth" platforms.
FOX 3 at 28 miles on a AiM174 is insanely close range ! Even at a low altitude
The Navy: we’d just keep making new weapons until the Super Hornet ran out of pylons
Then Lockheed said , let's strap a Mako to everything with wings .
@@PointBlank65 mako not maco, unless you're talking about something else
@@burnedbacon3989 na Just an early morning typo
Lol 😂
Would love to see what kind of stealth missions the F22 or F35 can do with internal mako's.
I think the super hornet should had climb high up over 20miles and shoot the missile to give more range. He stayed low the whole time knowing he got a longer range missile that was a pilot error
Problem is if Rhino got up high, Raptor would be able to shoot it down even with "just" AMRAAMs (and I don't think those quotation marks could possibly be overemphasized) before Raptor got detected.
That's what makes stealth fighters so dominant.
@@NLozar22 Only to a point, that AAMRAM still gotta climb and that takes a lot of energy too while the 174 is starting in thin air, then descending at the end. I'd like to have seen the hornet press before firing more, GS was going cold well outside the MAR of the AMRAAM so one 174 to send him defensive, ignore the incoming AAMRAM, as GS said, its not a threat, press to close to inside the 174s MAR (but outside the AMRAAMS MAR) as the F22 defends the first, send another 174. Never let the F22 get offensive.
I think he explained that whole situation and why they stayed low early on in the video
@@guyb7995 The situation in this video was that Rhino's problem was detecting the Raptor, while Raptor's problem was getting close enough for a high Pk shot. If Rhino was up high, so would be the Raptor. It wouldn't make sense for Raptor to shoot upward. Remeber, while Rhino is fairly low observaible (stealthy by Russian standards), Raptor would still detect it way before it would be detected itself, thus it could place itself in the most advantageous position well in advance. And Raptor could be a lot faster than Rhino with four AIM-174s and two tanks futher improving the Pk of its AMRAAMs. (I have serious doubts AIM-174s can be carried in pairs per pylon. One AIM-174 is about 2000 lbs.) So Raptor would certainly get the first shot and it would be quite a high Pk one at that before Rhino could detect it, especially with Delta AMRAAMs (the ones in the videos are Charlies, I believe).
In other words / TL;DR:
The reason Rhino wanted to force low altitude fight was because at low altitude, Raptor is forced into the detection range of Rhino's radar before it can shoot its AMRAAMs effectively.
But at high altitude, Raptor could handily shoot lethal AMRAAMs well before it would even be itself detected (maybe even if Rhino itself was low). Again, that's what makes (proper) stealth fighters so dominant.
@@NLozar22 The 18 had more assists and could lock on at 30 miles or so, so it could still afford to be a bit higher, not 40K ft but higher for sure. Then still press the 22, descending between shots to bleed the AMRAAM, but remember the 174 has like twice the range, so as long as you are outside its MAR and can detect the 22, which will be inside your MAR, you should win.
I remember way back in about 1984 or so brainstorming with a GMM shipmate of mine about if this could be done with the SM-2 ER like we carried on USS Preble DDG-46. Apparently we were ahead of our time but back then the F-14 and the AIM-54 Phoenix were still around. It was in the middle of a long Indian Ocean deployment and we had a lot of time on our hands for stuff like that!
Cool! How about a video to demonstrate where the AIM-174 will probably be used - smoking AWACS, bombers, and transports from very long range?
Yeah, imagine a video where its SU-57s + some odds and ends attempting to defend an AWACs or tanker against some US craft defending whatever missile truck is being used to snipe at the target, or some variation there. It wouldn't even need to be Raptors, using regular fighters could prove to be pretty interesting
@@kyun1711 That requires "Launch on Datalink" capability, which (AFAIK) is not modeled in DCS, nor can be modded into it I don't think.
@@NLozar22 fair, good catch
I'd love to see the AIM-174B mated to the F-15EX. It would seem to be virtually purpose-built for that job of carrying massive amounts of ordnance and flinging it at extreme ranges against datalinked targets.
For there or only used in the Navy.
Love how you describe every move you make and explain why you do it. This one was intense
TacView would be great to see how some of the new missiles behave :) Great video as always.
A datalink weapons lock is going to be a big deal for long range missiles like this. However the F22 is still designed to handle such situations with such a small radar cross-section.
One wasp strapped with ship's AA missiles
versus
_One hungry sneaky dino_
I have to wonder how much these impact the performance of a F/A-18? Kind of makes you wish we had the Tomcat 21, if it could carry 6 Phoenix it could probably also carry 6 of the AIM-174.
You'd think a 100+ mile missile would easily have the energy to hit you at 20-30 miles. Really didn't know that the range was impact to that extent by flying low. Great vid.
At sea level, air resistance is 1,000 millibars. At 100,000 ft, it's only 10 millibars. The way missiles achieve long range is by climbing up where there's no air resistance; when those same missiles are forced to function at 10k or 20k ft, they're not long range any more.
Yes, it’s crazy the dramatic difference air density makes.
It might be shit up close,honestly. It's gonna have a hard time maneuvering with a jet pancake like f-22/su-57 and it can definitely understeer
@@mrgoober6320 the bar/milibar is a measure of air pressure, not resistance or density, my friend. Air resistance is measured in newtons, air density - in kilograms per cubic meter.
At sea level, the standard air density is approximately 1.225 kg/m³.
At 10,000 feet, it is roughly 0.905 kg/m3. So the difference is nowhere near as large as you imply.
@@johnnyenglish583 Air resistance is a function of velocity, so it can't be evaluated by altitude alone. And air density and air pressure are directly related; at 100,000 ft, both air pressure and air density are ~1% of their expected value at sea level.
This is basic physics.
A worthy effort but in the end as always, a raptor must feast.
I wonder if it would be a better tactic to shoot the 174, then close in fast behind it, and keep firing as your closing. It seems as if the missile has no trouble tracking the F-22, but the ranges he was firing at was just a little too far.
Could have baited you with the AMRAAM at longer range, make you think he is out of SM-6.
I would love to see a modular/jettisonable wing mount for these on the F22. That setup would be terrifying.
A-10: "Did someone say wing mount?"
@@ticotube2501 no radar to set it up.
As soon as I saw new I was like okay this is going to be interesting.
Any news on an AIM-260 for DCS? I know you tried them before but they were kinda quirky off the rail and didn't seem to be able to hit anything. I'd like to see the AIM-174 or a functional AIM-260 on an aircraft that can make the most of it. The AIM-174 definitely enhances the capabilities of the Hornet, but I don't feel the Hornet realizes the full potential of the AIM-174. The Hornet is just too slow. It is like giving the SDMR to the worst marksman in the squad. A truly long-range missile on an Eagle or Viper, something that can get high and fast enough to realize the potential of the missile so that both the aircraft and the missile bring the best out of each other would be nice.
And theoretically the Eagle could hold 12 of them, coming off the rail over Mach 2.5 at 60k feet
It would probably be way too heavy for the eagle to carry 12, also the Mach 2.5 and 60000 ft was a clean eagle with nothing on it.
@@OwenBeyer-nr3dv okay, 10 missiles at Mach 2.2 at 50k feet.
Still, whoever locks this in DCS must hate fun.
@@remain_ probably still can’t do that, but definitely fun!
We dont even know how the Aim-260 looks like since it wasnt reavealed to the public yet. Leave alone its performance data which are classified
"A brave stand, and noble" - Dinobot
Love that tail view of the chaff! good work!
I could spend hours watching the Raptor. I do. Thanks!
The weapon bay door flash was a nice added touch of disrespect. ;D
13:17 For just a moment, I thought that was you...was like, well, thats one way to do it lol
I would like to see this scenario done using the AIM-174’s on the F-15 which has a larger more powerful radar.
I think they only have them setup for the hornet so the f15 isn’t capable at the moment I’ve seen other videos of this and they all used the hornet
Very good BVR match GS and Golf. Great flying!
It reminded me of the time when GS flew against the MiG-21Bis in an F-16 insofar as previous gen fighters with upgrades and new missiles can actually compete with the newer gen fighters for a while. Neat.
It's hard to tell if it's just the missile gaining/losing lock or not, but it sure seems like the DCS F-22 has a nasty RWR blind arc above and below the horizontal wing plane.
The problem with merely increasing the missile size, is that you also increase the missile's inertia. That means that the missile is going to want to keep going in whatever direction it's already going, which means that it's going to have a hard time hitting a small, manoeuvring target.
You should test the hornet against the SU-57 with hypersonics
Once the SU-57s hypersonic kills the F-18s AWACS, it’s over. The hornet can’t guide the Aim-174 by itself very well. And the Su-57 is just a better BVR fighter than the hornet.
I wonder if the new Peregrines would be best for this sort of mission. You'd have a couple more shots.
Another great video as usual. How are you flying the F-22 in the latest version of DCS?
I could spend hours watching the Raptor.
11:55 - My dude, if you utterly failed to hit him at 18 miles, you are absolutely not going to do it at 20+.
Would love to see this with the new Mako hypersonic missiles on the f22.
I'm never worried about GS in the Raptor
I can’t wait until the 22 is outfitted with the Mako, that’s going to be a fun video to watch!
The mako is used by the navy it will be used on the f18 and f35
@@NATEDOG2024 and the 15, 16, and 22. It’s being pitched to the Air Force too
F/A-18E/F vs F-35C (Fox-2 fight) would be epic to see! Navy vs Navy : Old vs New
Day 78
If you wanted old vs new, F-35 vs F-14 would be better.
@@mikeyplayzwrld he has already done that.
Very interesting scenario! Points up the need for that new AIM-260(?).
Watching those missles on your radar gave me Aliens vibes 😨
That was a Great Fight GS. Thank You Sir
No it wasnt, the oponent was not using his range advantage and firing from way too long of a distance... When you outrange the oponent you do t fire at the edge of your capability but just beyond of the capability of the oponent...
If AMRAAM at that altitude has 10miles MAR and your weapon has 20 you fire at 12-15 not at 25...
He should have started with wpending his AMRAAMS first for the opening low PK shots just to prevent Raptor from pushing him then fire the SM-6 inside the MAR but outside of GSs MAR...
The whole time I’m like, who had the warriors death? But I should’ve known, Raptor reigns supreme ❤🇺🇸
Every GS video is an automatic click and like. Always quality content 👍
I appreciate you, thank you
Look at everything they need to get close to beating an aircraft first fielded 30 years ago
A real cat and mouse battle. You were "Iceman" and let the other guy make the mistake.
i think we need old school vs new school. tomcat/phoenix vs super hornet/sm-6
GS…how is the Raptor’s radar compared to the Eagles? In your experience.
in reality I have no idea, in DCS it's much stronger.
@@GrowlingSidewinder I should have clarified that I meant in DCS. Thanks GS
my pleasure sir.
F35 would be the more likely companion for a superhornet with 174Bs. They can sit 100+miles away and sling missiles at targets. Pretty cool. But as others have said, probably not going to be used in a fight like this. Take down awacs etc
Question, I'm not a DCS player, Do all these fight scenarios start from a cold start every time? Some are BVR and others are the merge, do they just start each time in flight or on the ground?
GS hoping his AMRAAMs shoot down the AIM-174Bs makes me wonder if the Peregrine missile in development could be used as a self defense missile. Raptor could carry 4 AIM-260s and 4 Peregrines (assuming two Peregrines can fit where one AIM-120/260 is mounted), use the AIM-260s offensively, and maybe use the Peregrine to shoot down enemy missiles.
Awesome video! F-22 Raptor can't be defeated!
Now I'm wondering what happens when you strap one of these missiles... on the Raptor. Or the F35. Maybe that could be a super interesting fight, F35 with SM-6 vs F22 with AMRAAMs.
Good video! Imagine them new fangled missiles on something like a U-2 spy plane or the b-21?
I think the Navy will use them passively, by triangulation, using two IRST21 pods in a couple of SH, to geolocate stealth fighters and direct the missile until the end without the use of radar.
2 hornets with Aim-174b's vs 1 Raptor would be spicy.
Great video, GS !
Aim174 vs Mako next???
17 minutes with a f22 is really good
A fun fight might be a standoff standoff: F/A-18 with the AIM-174 against an F-14 with some Phoenixes. Old school vs new school.
Very awesome fight and interesting seeing the new missile tactics here. It sure would be cool to see some hot WWII action again. perhaps IL2??
You have very interesting videos of the new missiles. Please tell me. Where can I get mods for aircraft and missiles that you show in the videos? I would very much like to evaluate F-22 and F-18 with these missiles in TacView.
Had plans, Now I don’t
A quick reminder: Ingesting camels and cacti WILL void the warranty on those engines.
i get so excited when i see F22 videos
It would be interesting to do this same set up, but with other stealth fighters from countries
The F15EX would make the most of those 174B's. Long range radar, increased thrust, stronger airframe, all make those missiles more effective. 😁🤩
Where the new MACO hypersonic mission at?
I miss the tacview debrief
every time you end with an obligatory bay flash and it gets me every time
I see everyone talking about being able to guide the 174's from different platforms. See if it's possible to cook up a mission to where there's an entire strike-fighter squadron of F/A-18Fs holding like 4-6 AIM-174s which are guided by an AWACS, F-35C, Patriot or something to conduct air patrol and take out an entire enemy fighter wall while a fleet of F/A-18Es conduct a strike on a nearby airbase, taken over city, or any enemy territory. This would be a pure NAVY Mission with all fighters including the AWACS taking off from a Super Carrier.
Sadly it cant be guided by different platforms in DCS
@@Mike_Romeo It can be simulated though, those AIM174s wouldve killed GS had enough energy. He couldve told us that the he had the Patriot or AWACS guiding them just for fun...
@@KristianBennett Even if there was awacs or patriots, DCS doesnt simulate datalink guideance.
@@Mike_Romeo How did the AIM-174 track and get so close to the F-22?
@@KristianBennett By its own radar and with support of the F/A-18 radar
If you shoot and notch you are actively dragging the bandit's missile out of the path of your Amraam.
Another interesting but awesome video, you should do more videos in the f22
When the missile you're fending off has a bigger RCS than you...
The hornet should have fired his aim120 before firing his last aim174, that way he could have given you false information on what missile he shot before firing his last aim 174 at a much closer range which could having given him the win, great fight tho
I was thinking the same thing
Although probably not modeled accurately in DCS, I wonder how the changing aspect of the F-22 affects its radar signature. For example, does notching (giving the missile a side view) give that missile a stronger radar contact to track?
So yes, as of a recent update in DCS aspect does indeed reflect the changes in RCS.
Really intense long-range fight on both sides!
Awesome fight! Would love to see you play this from the F-18 Aim-174B side/
If he had roughly double the MAR, why wouldn't he have let you close to that fire his last missile or two.... since you had to eventually. Maybe fire off an Amraam instead of that last 174 to fool you.
The 4th missile he lunch should have a amram while holing 1 SM6
I'm pretty sure if you had tried to be aggressive earlier on that first or second 174-B would have caught you. I would like to see you doing scenarios(with missiles not just guns) where you're forced to push forward so we can see the difference between being defensive and aggressive or even reckless. I think it would be a good showcase of how difficult and counterintuitive(to me) air to air combat is.
I still dont get why the Hornet wouldn't climb and take more advantage of the standoff range knowing you cant close while he is firing 174b's at you.
Because if he climbs he will be in range of my AMRAAMs cuz I can see him as he is not stealth I can shoot at him outside the range that he can detect me. Only way to bring me in closer so he can detect me is to stay low altitude (reducing my missiles range)
@@GrowlingSidewinder Is it that big of a margin though? Also you detected him at about 40 miles anyway. Could he have detected you farther out if he had greater altitude?
@@GrowlingSidewinder Sorry, Never mind. I understand now. Its all about the range of the F18 tracking radar. Being higher up would only compound the issue.
I know I could have seen him from as far as 80-120 miles if I wanted to, I only saw him at 50+ miles cuz thats when I turned my radar on and looked for him. He on the other hand did not detect me until about 37 miles and thats with all the help he was getting. So ya I believe the margins are pretty large. If he was flying at 30000 feet, I would have gone up there with him, launched at 60 miles and he would have died before he even saw a blip of me on his radar.
yes this is correct, apologies if my first explanation was not clear.
Guys what is datalink? I’ve heard of it but never gotten a good explanation
The hornet should have fired the SM6s and then run away to show how it's not just more dangerous, but also more survivable.
As far as I'm aware the missile should have the same seeker as the newest AMRAM, so to defeat the detection should be the same apart from the energy.
Isn't in an AMRAAM C seeker, not D?
You going to do amy vids on the Block III Hornet?
F22 baby!!!
Can the F-22 carry the AIM-174 yet? Imagine seeing the F-22 at 250 miles, waiting for that juicy lock and giggling at your insane luck. Then it disappears. ten minutes later 4 guys in your flight disappear in balls of fire.
Nooo the aim174 is huge it’s not going to fit into the f22 bays. The aim260 theoretically will.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Yes, but it has stealthy external hardpoints coming. So Will it be able to fire and regain most of it's stealth profile once the non-stealthy missiles are gone?
I love seeing Super Hornet videos.
We need Mako hypersonic missile modded for DCS, would love to see Raptor against the Felon in a duel of hypersonics
Has anyone designed the American “hypersonic” missiles for American fighters yet. Can’t wait to the the Raptor using these
Mako
Not operational
true