Can You Use a MiniVelo as a Gravel Bike?
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2023
- Review of the Kyoot Itty Bitty. www.kyootbikes.com/shop/p/itt...
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This bike would sell very well here in South Korea. Mini bikes are very popular here for the exact reasons you mentioned: easy to carry in elevators, trains, great for urban areas, people living in small apartments, etc. Kyoot should definitely look into sending some here.
Hopefully, you will do Bike Friday All-Packa in the future.
I like it when you show us unusual bikes such as this.
"A bike just for funsies" that may sound silly to some, to have an extra bike for that purpose. But I do find having a bike just for that purpose valuable. Whether it be your townie or what not, having a bike that you aren't worried about PRs and other distractions is a nice to have. Its more relaxing than a performance bike both in the terms of physically riding slower and comfortable, but also mentally, you're not thinking about pedaling hard, you're just having a good time. Worth having if you have the space. And money wise an old rigid mtb works great too.
I live in NYC. I've had many bikes through the years. Some stolen and some that aged so fast from being kept outside all year long. I started looking into mini velos because of those reasons, so I bought a VO neutrino frame to build last summer knowing what i was getting into and how much it would cost but ended up finding a Cannondale Hooligan 8 speed (converted to 9) on craiglist for $600. The guy I bought it from was 6 foot and rode it across the US. It has a Surly 24 pack rack and it is lighter since it is aluminum. It gets me around just fine to the skatepark, beach etc. These bikes are great for small spaces and even traveling in a car for the weekend. Lot less hassle for sure. Still have the neutrino frame. trying to sell it or maybe build down the line... not sure. Mini velos are pretty practical and useful. I am a fan for life. Don't get me wrong, id rather ride my 90s GT karakoram, but because of lack of space I have to keep it in storage and that sucks to do all that when I can just take the mini off the wall and jump and ride. I think it is cool to see this company that started out in Texas, making mini velos more popular here and little more affordable than the Neutrino. Think he was inspired by a visit to Japan from what i read. If you got the space for bikes, that is awesome but if you don't, these are a good option and it doesn't have to be your only bike. (have a clydesdale fork build at my friend's garage building, lol). Not against it but was never a fan of folding bikes.
I was fortunate enough to buy the first one of these. It's so fun! Instant nostalgia for my youth spent on BMX bikes. It feels so swoopy, and wheelie-capable. I do general street riding, and this bike just begs me to jump off curbs. The fact that it looks so great (especially in the red) is a nice bonus. I'm 6'1" and I don't feel cramped at all.
Yes it does look quirky and fun at the same time.
Thanks for showing options for two wheel fun.
Coming from hauling a full sized bike through a tight radius stairwell down two floors, my recently purchased Brompton has been so nice. The addition to it folding for the train has been amazing as well. I could totally go for something like this or a Neutrino as a potential N+1, though the limited handlebar options for this does give me pause if I'd go for this over the Neutrino.
I have the Cannondale Neo Compact. So easy to get up and down the stairs even though its 40lbs. Also its really comfortable for 20-30 miles rides and for lunch runs around town.
Nice review Russ. We must be on the same bike wavelength. I'd never even considered a mini folder, but yesterday on my lunch ride one of my neighbors put a KSH Mocha out on the curb for free! I snagged it and put air in the tires. I am now a fan of these bikes!
Looks like a great compact commuter! There are a plethora of bmx brands with bars going up past 10” of rise! Lots of upsweep and backsweep options, too!
Top load bmx stems are also very bountiful for those looking to tinker
Absolutely! I sometimes ride a fixed Raleigh 20 on gravel. It’s very entertaining. Being under biked tends to sharpen focus :-)
I have a Neutrino and it's the most fun bike I've ever had.
I got to test ride one of these when I met Philip. Really fun bike and is probably going to get added to my stable.
I've lived in the Austin area for nearly 50 years, and didn't know about this bike company. I'll have to check it out. I'm old, but young enough to check out a bicycle like this one.
Velo orange klunker bars have a fair amount of sweep
I rode one at a cafe - a dropbar Bianchi minivelo - one day and love the zippiness and responsive steering! Eventually had to give up our mamachari to replace with a Bianchi minivelo for my partner's rides (or my rides rather lol). Love it for quick trips ,or semi long trips too.
Have one by velo orange frame. Tubless slick tyres, hydralic brakes, 11-39 cogset, brompton mount on the head tube. Love it
And one more thing. Its orange)
Been wanting a kyoot for a gravel bike ty for this vid
I have Genio Nuke 20 inch, it's very fun and comfortable for daily use such as shopping to market and go around town. Also my 65 years old mom like it very much as she uses it almost everyday.
looks like a good town bike, fun, thanks Russ
Nicely put, I agree with most of what you found about mini velos.
Been bitten by that bug in 2017 am am designing those thingys ever since 🙂
I ride a Polygon Zeta 2 as a daily commuter with Velo Orange Crazy Bars. While I'm partial towards steel, the Zeta's aluminum frame doesn't feel that harsh IMO especially loaded. I'm currently riding it with a Brooks B67 saddle and I'm a happy camper.
This reminds me of the Day6 bikes. They made a Behemoth with fat tires, and an e-bike version. This just needs to be foldable to really sell me on it. Not to mention a belt drive. For something fun a "mild" e treatment would be useful for messenger and delivery work. With all that extra room you have for racks the layout makes a lot of sense. You should do a video with it loaded up.
Love the channel, thank you!
Looks like a good candidate to put on an ebike kit. I have a pair of BikeFriday’s, one an older Pocket Llama with a rear GMAC, and the other a Diamond Llama with a front wheel kit. Love them both and since they are sized bikes, I can deal easily with my height, 6’5”, and weight, 260#.
The owner of the company said it was designed with e-modding in mind, mid-drive in particular.
I built up something similar years ago. Out for the trash I found a kids 20in mountain style bike 6-speed. Cleaned it up, turned it up, rigged an extra-long seatpost adult size, the tallest stem I could find, taller BMX bars and a few new parts. I've got $100 into it. It's a quality frame and the short wheelbase makes it very nimble and a ball to ride down trails or gravel. Only downside is I'm a little self-conscious of riding it. Figured I could take it to campgrounds to explore and have fun!
I used to do the same sort of hackery. You don't have to be self-conscious riding this one. I'm a big guy (6'1", 240), and the Itty Bitty definitely gives me "BMX but for adults" vibes. I don't feel like I'm riding a kid's bike.
I just learned about these mini velos by watching a random short video where dude spots fully geared mini velo rider on mini velo road bike! Its cool as heck!
Well done! Great feedback :)
Some custom Doom bars would be awesome on that bike! Cool to see a 20inch gravel bike def need more of them.
Another VO Neutrino owner here. I bought mine a year ago for doing train-to-country trips. It was better than taking my Brompton esp. when you don't know what conditions of the trails. Throw a set of 20" MTB tyres and ur set. It's also a good test/ experimental rig for testing weird component combinations.
That bike look very much like the Neutrino I got this spring, same colour at least. I ride mostly gravel with my other bikes and haven’t tried the mini velo on the nice fine gravel rail trails we have around here but did get some 2.3 inch tires that might work. I’m using mech hydraulic disc brakes and 1x Shimano Zee derailleur and 160mm Origin8 crank (trying shorter crank cause of what I learned on this channel). FSA metropolis handlebar.
This is brilliant, thanks Russ just perfect bike to put into the back of my Overlanding van.
As for handlebars go to an good dirt motorcycle shop and ask to look at there Mini dirt bike handlebars
Very cool. I've got a Zizzo Liberte and a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket. Looking at a minivelo like the All Packa or Diamond Llama to tour the world with. Itty Bitty looks great too but I wonder if I'd miss the fold? Or maybe some couplers?
Great review.
I have a specialized turbo vado e-bike that i love.
Heavy and tough to move around.
looking at a vello rocky to fold up and keep at the office.
Going to put some billy bonker 2.0 tires on it.
should be interesting.
Thank You
BC
We need more bikes like this in the wild. They will attract interest to cycling.
The more different or bazaar the better.
Bmx bars like those bit with more sweep are made in the USA by S and M available from Empire BMX. SAC bars(sick ass cruiser), and Husky are about 32 inches wide, 6 inch rise and 20 degree back sweep
Looks like so much fun, Russ, and I'd say it's like a Schwinn Sting-Ray with gears. And back in the day, Sting-Rays were good for gravel riding, I enjoyed riding on gravel farm roads outside Fresno in '71 with a friend.
Schwinn Sting Ray = Original BMX. Good times in the 70's!
I remember the Sting Ray types having derailleurs in the early 70s. A friend of mine was gifted with one whilst I made do with the single speed J C Higgins with Coaster brakes. I think his was called the Orange Crate.
@@TheOutsidePerks O you are so right, the Schwinn Sting-Ray was the first bike to be modified and raced in BMX and it opened the door for all those SoCal BMX bikes to bust onto the scene and what a scene all of that was back then with communities from coast-to-coast building BMX tracks in parks and on public land and it was such an accommodation to bike-crazy kids. And the BMX bike in general was a surprising follow-up to the Sting-Ray in that most of us, I think, expected to go from Sting-Ray to a 125cc dirt bike or so. I know that was my thinking but no, I saw an ad in Dirt Bike magazine for the CYC Stormer with Skyway Tuff-Wheels and I mail-ordered one to Frankfurt, West Germany in early '76, I was 16 and we had moved there from Pacifica, California in late '74 when my travel-crazy Dad got a civilian job over there and suddenly I was a military dependent and I remain thankful for my years there, I could go on about them all day. My little thumbnail is me in early '75 in Frankfurt, jumping my bike and missing my friends yet making the most of it. And I did, like shortly after I got the CYC Stormer with my after-school job money in '76, I bought a used '73 250 Maico with a silver coffin tank from a classmate for 200 bucks. And the next few years of my life were like that, motorcycles and bicycles, and ultimately, I was happy with just bicycles, great for staying in shape and bikes had been my fun since the Summer of Love in '67 when my Dad took me a bike shop near Golden Gate Park and surprised me with that Sting-Ray. And for the next seven-plus years that bike was everything, as I look back. It was something for the neighborhood, just riding around, something for wheelies and stunts, it was a downhill bike and then a happy zig-zag back up, it was a trail and gravel bike, and it was the stuff of daydreams in class, just thinking about riding with friends and maybe watching the dirt bike guys do their thing. And knowing that, yeah, we were getting ready to do that, too. Such good times.
@@daniellarson3068 Definitely, anything Schwinn Krate was a bike for show-offs, lol, I do remember that as i wanted one but no way would that ever happen and I was okay with that when I raced a kid on his Krate and all he did was bounce around with that springer fork, cool but not for me, I wanted real speed and I got that from my basic Sting-Ray, a bike I rode from age 8 to 15 and I am 15 in early '75 in my little thumbnail, still having fun on my Sting-Ray until I got BMX bikes and motorcycles. Yet it is amazing to think about all the different makes and models of 20" bikes from that era, most of them single-speed with coaster brakes but a lot with gears and handbrakes and all sorts of options. And I rode BMX bikes and motorcycles and road bikes into 1981, then quietly bailed on my last BMX bike, a top-notch Redline which I traded for a basic 26" Schwinn cruiser. But in '82, I gave BMX another try with a new 26" Mongoose single-speed, a bike for the BMX cruiser class. And that bike was a lot of fun, I could wheelie it for days and it was my first foray into 26" off-road bikes. Ultimately, however, and I thought this back then, I think BMX missed a trick by not popularizing 24" bikes, even mandating them for any rider over the age of 15 once the sport had established its popularity. The Sting-Ray started the 20" wheel size, but it didn't have to stay there. A 24 would have been more appropriate for teens than the original size, tho' twenties have their place at party pace, as Russ shows us in this vid. 😀
Super strong agree. I had more than one Sing-Ray, and modded one with gears. The Kyoot Itty Bitty manages to give me similar vibes. It's such a nostalgic joy to ride. (I was lucky enough to be Phil's first customer)
I want a mini velo. But single speed/fixed. Also you can get some bars with more backsweep in the bmx/Moro range.
Love to see Eric from spindatt make a minivelo urban commuter but will/can ride it in bmx parks
I bet this would remind me of riding a BMX on local green trails as a kid but without so many quality of life issues
Man, you makes me want this so bad. Never seen minivelo with those tires
"circus bear on a bike". I nearly spit my drink. So picturesque, and so appropriate!
I just read that Allan Shaw will ride the silk road mountain race on a cargo bike with a similar small front wheel. Good luck to him.
I would like to try something like this, looks good fun.
Try "nerve gliding " for the medial nerve. I have had good results for a similar ligament injury . 😊
This is cool as an option in my small town. You can ride on bush and mixed use trails, but the small wheel size avoid city bylaws and allow you to ride on the sidewalk. Bike racks are often lacking, so this is small enough to drag inside business with you without much hassle.
The proportions of this bike are really nice, most mini velo bikes look a little off. Nice all around bike and would be great for travel and as a loaner bike for friends. Now to convince my wife I “need” it!
Those avid levers are bombproof, rode from UK to India with those FR-5's and still run the exact pair on my beater bike, looking tatty now but they have withstood many a gnarly crash and continuous rough use - even hit a stray dog in Georgia, central Asia - those things came up on top over me and the poor doggo. They are cowcatchers for your bike.
My everyday bike is pedelec minivelo with dropbar and 451 tires, handle very well on commute and light gravel, quite a neckbreaker too 😂
Have you considered trying either the Surly Sunrise or Terminal bars? They both have considerable rise and the Terminal is rather "Beach" Cruiserish. They might be a good fit for you to alleviate wrist or hand pain.
The S&M S.A.C bars or husky moto also are a good pick
Doom Bars in ABQ will make any style riser bar you want.
The Moulton XTB is pretty good for mixed gravel and road, but until they decide to provide suspension lockout, it isn't great for climbing. It is absolutely brilliant for descent while loaded, however, and it is extremely comfortable. Now, if Lauf would make a fork for 20" tires and long headtubes, this MiniVelo would be great.
I'm so keen on the MV concept - esp. for multi-urban-transport etc. But finding a frame which fits and cost to entry has me a little hesitant. The Neutrino has a lot going for it - but not exactly thrilled about some of the design choices (lets throw ALL the options into every bike)... The Itty Bitty looks spot on - but wish there was a larger/longer option - and was available as a rolling chassis and a little cheaper...
I like the smaller form factor, but you need to constantly watch for ruts. Obstacles that full size wheels roll over will send you over the handle bars.
Same with a low speed sharp turn. Doing that while also ascending a speed bump had bad results while riding my Xootr Swift folder.
Very interesting for sure
You can just run a super tall stem and normal bars instead of super high raiser bars. Mini velo is great for fitting neatly in a cubicle or apartment, but multimodal commutes can get complicated sometimes depending on what kind of bike accommodations are provided on your transit systems. Not all racks/bike holders are friendly to small wheel bikes, especially when running a front rack.
And that weight comment leads to my question: why the heck are all mini velos grosses Bertha's?! I have been looking to buy a lightweight commuter and minis are way to heavy. Why the heck do they clock like (or way over) full size bikes ? Size matters for public transport and lifts and what not but so does weight... it seams to me that a small carbon Alu or titanium frame would save a lot of weight compared to full sized steel, each in its price class.
Check out the Reach GT …about 23 lbs. Lot of mini velo have long head tubes and seat tubes so that adds weight.
You should review the Bike Friday All packa soon!
Wald has some handlebars with sweep and height. They seem to be made for those ridiculous cruiser bikes.
How much overall length are you saving with this vs a mid trail 650b bike with 425ish chainstays?
Try the S&M arc bar
I wish there were more mini velos. Especially with cantilever mounts and single speed dropouts. Kyoots look like a nice option vs the pricey neutrino. On ebay the Respect! Mini velo bikes seem to still be on and just are basically a mini velo similar to a State single speed...
I really want to try one, I love my bf all-packa , I felt the Velo orange neutrino was a bit to twitchy for gravel , atb duties….
Like many things in the industry, it’s a good idea for more experienced riders and probably not a great idea for the beginners and casual riders.
I want that one!
I want one in Black!
Of course it is. I ride my Brommie with 38’s mounted on gravel all day, air way down and go party. 🤙
Every bike is a gravel bike. Fewer bikes are actually fun as gravel bikes.
Is there even a wheel size somewhere between 20 and 29? Shame that just doesn't exist... Nice one, Russ ;-)
very cool, way out my price range but love the concept.
If you havé à pumptrack near you you should try it there😊
I have no practical need for this bike - but I want one! 🙂
Ahearne Cycles Uprising Handlebar: 100 mm rise with 22 degree backsweep
What differentiates this from the Neutrino? It looks basically identical.
The front end handling and trail. The Neutrino has a much lower trail than the Kyoot, resulting in more responsive steering.
For reasonable prices ($500) range see the Polygon Zeta. I'm not sure about rating any minivelo for gravel (seems the VO Neutrino should be rated so). Polygon's availability in the US is a question. These have an aluminum frame so they might beat many in the weight dept.
I've owned two steel minivelo and one steel folding bike, and always wondered why the frameset had to be so heavy... Is it because the tubeset options are very limited and they all use thick-walled straight tubes? My impression was that heavy tubing combined with the small wheel diameter, mini bikes all felt more wooden to me, unlike the springy ride feel you get on a normal, 700c size steel bike. Maybe fatty tires would help a bit but I don't know...
I suspect the companies are all trying to fit into a price range.
The minivelo frame needs to use longer tubes than a 700c frame The wheels are smaller so the axle is lower to the ground and of course, the frame still needs to reach the adequate height to fit bars and seatpost. There are ways to shrink the frame a little such designing it for taller bars like on this bike. But still look at how long the head tube is.
How many teeth does the chain ring have?
It's an upgraded moosegoose!!!
A minivelo is that one type of bike I always love to see and really want, yet probably will never buy because it doesn't make enough sense for my use cases.
"It's hard to focus on the aero and the watts when you're feeling like a circus bear on the bike" - Russ 2023
Soooooo good
I would love this little commuter. But anything out of the curve here becomes too expensive to that objective
I had never seen so many mini Velo bikes than when I was in Japan. You hardly ever see them here in the states, but they’re all over Japan. I think they’re cool looking, but I’m much too big to ever own/ ride one. I’d look like a bear in the circus riding a bike.
From memory those bears had a massive smile. It’s a lovely image. If you can just look past the terrible animal exploitation- different times, different standards so no blame.
I think Kyoot is meant to be pronounced "cute"
Interesting.
Velo Orange klunker bar has rise and backsweep
Looked at it and thought it was a great city commuter but I like the other option.
love your videos! But, man. Your audio is so low.
cool
Bike for dads that bmx’d
Glad you tried minivelo, but why you tried in gravel ride 😅
Thought this was the vo neutrino
Already did a Neutrino vid years ago.
Cute! It’s pronounced Cute! 😅
Klunker bars
what a cool bike! i was very interested until you mentioned that smaller wheels slow down faster. so, small tire bikes are out for me.
Yeah but you accelerate faster.
@@AndrewMalcolmson hmmmmm 🤔 i may reconsider!
just rewatched for the weight. i'm out.
Those bars do exist! Search for stooge junker!
I feel like it should just be pronounced "cute" right?
Are you sure it isn't pronounced, keeeeyoot? Like because it's small and cute?
Eyelets are full of paint 😆
It’s a lot easier to talk smack then make something isn’t it.
Minivelos can do anything larger bikes do. The only exception would be top speed but then again…
Rocks would not be a minivelos friend. 700c/29er roll much better over larger obstacles
@@MB-jz3uu Minivelos more agile, will avoid rocks😉
You can use anything with good tires on gravel 😂