Millennial vs. Carburetor | Square Body Chevy Back on the Road After Sitting 12 Years
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- We finally finish up the 1981 Chevy C10 and get it back on the road. Lots of problems with the fuel system, carb, and choke.
0:00 Intro
2:30 Emissions
5:08 Carburetor
13:00 Tune Up
16:52 Fuel Tank Install
24:30 Fuel Lines
29:20 Oil and Startup
34:55 More Fuel Lines
43:37 More Emissions
49:24 Stumbles and Timing
55:10 Test Drive
59:03 Carb and Choke Struggles
1:18:52 Outro
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Just a couple of suggestions from a tech that has been building these for decades. First, remove the carb again, turn it upside down, and notice the three well plugs in the middle of the throttle plate. GENTLY tap them just enough to make sure they're snug and apply a thin coat of JB Quick over them. They are notorious about leaking and will drop fuel into the intake overnight, causing cold start problems. Next, the choke spring can be zeroed in by putting the linkage in cold start position, and spinning the spring to have a slight drag from a 1/8 drill bit on the choke flap and housing. That big vacuum pot on the front of the throttle linkage is what they call a choke pull off, too. After it gets a good vacuum, it pulls the choke flap open slightly more, as the engine is still warming up. Check that, I usually replace them, as they're all decades old by now. For your off idle stumble, if you didn't start with counting the turns as you disassembled it, I usually start with about 2 1/2 turns off the bottom, and go from there. The hard line you tapped into for your vacuum gauge is for the transmission modulator valve. If there was fluid in the pipe, you need to replace the modulator on the trans. If it's dry, there is another rubber line at the trans where it plugs into the modulator, so check it for cracks too. maybe this word salad will help a slight bit. Kudos for being the brave Millennial and diving into it lol.
Ya beat me to it and I could not said it better and I even learned a thing er two. Thanks.
This EXPLAINS why I hated that SOB on my '74 Suburban, threw it in the trash and put one of the very first Aftermarket TBI systems on it.... at the time, they did not have one with enough CFM for a 454 big block, so I used a 350 version, knowing in advance it would never have the Low Down Grunt that I wanted, but I used it for 10 years before selling the truck
Lots of good advice here. The only thing I would add is to check the EGR valve and make sure it is not sticking . These were famous for getting carboned up and staying slightly open at idle. The other thing I usually did with these engines is run a bit more initial timing advance. +2-3 deg usually helped them a lot
I agree, also those EGR valves would sometimes hang slightly open & cause poor low idle & the mechanical advance in the distributor were almost always partially stuck or worn out, anyway I guess Greta would still not be happy
I've rebuilt MANY Quadrajets. All the tips you gave are good. Bump the timing to 6-8 degrees too.
It's crazy how bad people beat you up in the comments section.🤦♂️ You're taking your time to make these videos and share the information so us guys/girls that work on our stuff in our backyards can actually fix these things. I always appreciate your videos. You, Mustie1 and Eric O put out the best videos. And I appreciate it greatly.🤙🤙
I’m fully persuaded that the hecklers don’t get to Wes. I mean he lives in the universe of green crusties and rust, what could be better! Steady work.
It’s all the shi* kickers who have never made a video in their life. The worlds takers and not givers acting as experts on everything. Wes should find a way to charge for each video. 1.25 hours worth of entertainment, that’s worth at least $5-10 to me
I will second this post!
The more they comment the happier the algorithm gets. It brings Wes’s content to more people.
So, m ph... you are only validated or an "expert'" if you make youtube videos?? While I agree people need to lighten up, it grinds my gears when I see idipts use that tired old idea that you have to make a stupid youtube video to know what you are doing. There are MILLIONS of excellent experts who never made a video in their lives. Get over it!
"If there's one thing we don't want on a 41 yo truck that's been abandoned for 12 years, it's a minor rattle" That got me 😂 Your sense of humor is great.
When my pop's worked the dealership, it was all squeaks and rattles on new warrantied cars. Says he spent a lot of time riding in the trunk listening for them. No customers one ever wanted to fix them on their own paid time though.
@@12345NoNamesLeft professional mob kidnapping victim 🥴😂
"What do you do for a living?"
"I spend 8 hours a day stuffed into someone's trunk."
Jokes, but LOL
@@jakesmith2341 "Extra curricular activities: Sleeping in trunks."
I gotta get a life. I sat and watched this entire video. I am not a mechanic, or the owner of a truck like this and yet I enjoyed it. Unbelievable.
Talented guy.
He's answering lifes important questions.
Hey, Wes, don't be so hard on yourself. Those engines were often hard to cold start when they were new. The fact that you can get that elderly rust bucket to run at all is amazing, outstanding, and almost beyond belief. Cheers!
Nothing wes does is surprising to me, if it's physically possible he can do it lol
I came here to say this. These "complex carburetors" were notorious for not working very well from day one.
sht carby..
Future reference, slightly bend the float pivot pin so the air horn compresses it again. Stalling on initial start-up is because your choke pull-off is adjusted too tight. The EFE is Early Fuel Evaporative which doesn't really reduce emission. Rather, it prevents stumbling and stalling from the fuel condensing on the intake manifold at the base of the carb where the airflow has to change direction. There is also the latent heat of evaporation of the fuel which keeps the intake cold for an extended period of time, even creating frost in said location. The EFE is only a butterfly (which defaults to the open position when no vacuum is applied) that forces exhaust across the intake to prevent condensation, stumbling and stalling. Connect your EFE. You'll like it! The TVS will shut the vacuum off to the EFE when the engine reaches operating temperature.
(Emission controls neither robbed power nor mileage. They in fact improved mileage. Lean mixtures cause excessive heat and oxides of nitrogen emissions. The EGR utilized exhaust gas to lean out the mixture (mileage) while robbing it of oxygen, thereby eliminating the excessive heat and NOX. It was the cam timing that robbed the performance and mileage.The cam timing change took place in 1971. Time was that you could order a timing gear for a 1970 Chevy small block and wake up your later model car/truck. You could see that the keyway was 10 degrees different. Manufacturers then stopped making the 2 different keyway locations in the late 80's and you were then stuck with the retarded cam timing from then to eternity. But... I digress..!)
You never mentioned checking the EGR valve. It has its own TVS. Make sure you're not feeding manifold vacuum to the EGR valve, and/or check to see if the TVS is not closing off while cold. There should be no vacuum to the EGR when cold or until there is s strong ported vac signal. Put a vacuum pump on the EGR and make sure that the diaphragm moves, and how much is required. They generally either leak all the time or don't open at all. If you connect ported vacuum directly to it, it might open too quickly. You're finger is in the way, so I can't see the diagram for it! I see a delay valve for the torque converter lock-up, but that's all.
The early 80's Buick Regal, et al, with the V-6's had serious stumble on light acceleration during cruising speeds. Dealers were stocked with what looked like blue electrical butt connectors. They were brass with a metered orifice in them. We would cut the vacuum line to the EGR and insert the orifice. Problem solved! It just slowed the vacuum signal to prevent the hesitation. Since you have the vacuum pump out, apply it to the EFE as well to check the movement. Wouldn't hurt to get a new thermac switch for the air cleaner too. Wrecking yard should have one.
Now for your scolding, young man! Should you ever pull that carb or install another Q-jet in your life DO NOT use that rattle gun! EEE GADS, man! Go back and watch how far it cocked that carb when you ran that first bolt down! Then the next, and the next! Carbs do NOT like being twisted! Use a ratchet to snug all 4 and then do the cross pattern twice until you achieve final torque value.
The electric choke, EFE and Thermac switch in the air cleaner are designed to all work together. "Cold" is anything below operating temperature, and all 3 of those are incorporated into "cold" operating conditions. The EGR comes in to play at operating temperature. You know you're leaning out, so you only have a few reasons why. Some cold, some at OT. Could be low float level. Could be low fuel pressure, which can cause low float level. Could be carbon build-up on the EGR valve seat. The simplest starting point is connecting that EFE.
All of this...wow! Long sprint down memory lane. Can't believe I'd forgotten about all of this.
up
Wes, don't be browbeaten by this. I'm absolutely certain that he's offering the best info you're gonna get. Elderlyiron was probably doing q-jets before you were born. I bet he can quote torque changes by the serial number. This is the genuine article, just like you.
On the other hand, I can only fiddle with mine until it runs good then it's set for a few years. '71 Chevy K-20, 350 V8 that I've had for 40 years. Quadrajets are all the same..........ain't a one of them that's just like another!
30:18 fellow millennial here. It's not crap, zinc and phosphorus were removed from most of the shelf oils in order to extend catalytic converter life. It's vital for flat tappet engines, especially mid 50s to early 70s.
Anyone who says they don't make mistakes has never learned anything, this is how evolve to a better person. Cool video Wes
When I get upside down on time in a job, due to my own lack of experiance. I call it paying for education. What you learned in this project will never leave you. Always enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing.
Yes. I've spent much time and money for tuition in the University of Hard Knocks.
I realize these videos are a lot of work and I just want to say, I appreciate the effort you put into them. Between you, Mustie1 and Diesel Creek, y'all are my Sunday mornings. Thanks.
I would rather watch the 3 RUclipsrs you listed on Sundays before I watch an NFL game and instead of watching a NASCAR race.
And a appreciate all the work you put into these videos 😇 it just doesn't magically work ! 👍👍👍
FYI Andrew Camarata and Steve Summers are also awesome.
Same here. I watch the same three guys. Plus Project farm and scrap farm. However, scrap farm for the entertainment of watching him fix his own trucks, ( that are almost worthless to begin with) in ways that would make my cheapass father proud.
@@thunderstruck1078 So is C & C Equipment.
Good work Wes! those Q-Jets are/were a headache for most people even back in their hayday. Once you understand how they work, they truly are a very simple and tunable carb. one thing to check for that part throttle cold stumble is the accelerator pump shot. While barely activating the throttle, look down at the pump discharge ports. If fuel dribbles out weakly, the pump needs adjusting. usually the pumps fulcrum arm's tip (where it meets the pump shaft) needs to be bent downward to insure the pump "cup" is down far enough in the bore. there is a spec for the installed height that should have been on the data sheet. when the engine is cold, the fuel doesn't atomize as well as when the engine is warmed up, so it needs an adequate pump shot to overcome a stumble. hope that helps. yeah, I'm a Boomer...
My 82 year old father loves Quadrajets and uses them exclusively. Every vehicle he has with a Quadrajet runs perfectly under all temperatures and driving conditions. He's a real master. Just wish I could get him on RUclips. It would definitely be a Squatch253 style channel!
Every carburetored vehicle has it's own start procedure. Some are 6 pumps, some half a pump, some need you to flutter the gas pedal while it cranks. You just need to drive every single one for a week to find out it's specific temperament.
what the pumping does is dump a bit of fuel into the intake manifold or something right?
Yes it does
All carburetors are designed, so that when the engine is cold, you only depress the accelerator once or twice in order to enrichen the fuel mixture while starting the engine. If you have to pump the accelerator more than that, you have a problem.
@@bertramlrezenet9311 That's fine for a brand new engine and a tuned carb. But not realistic. Low compression and you're going to need more fuel. Colder temp and you're going to need more fuel. A carburetor will not compensate for that other than leaving the choke on longer. The operator needs to learn every single vehicle like I said.
Can’t believe the absolute piles of crap people in your neck of the woods have on the roads. Those rusted out shitboxes would be defected in a heartbeat here in Australia.
My recollection of the best Quadrajet tuning process was to replace the thing with a Holley saving time, blistered paint on the walls of the shop, and my sanity.
Kudos to you for getting it to run as well as you did.
Eric
Before the government appointed themselves the god of detroit, quadrajets worked just fine.
We referred to them as quadrasu***
@@papasatitagin I think in the first video, Wes referred to it as a Quadrabog, which was what we always called it, here in the land of Rottenchester Carburetors. I doubt if even the guys who built them, or designed them, could figure how to get them to work right after a year.
@@papasatitagin quadrajunks lol
@@papasatitagin Or did you mean Quadjajunk? LOL
People are always in a hurry today, but usually thing work correctly, thank you for sharing your work and time with us.
When you started up the truck around the 43 min mark, someone outside started up an older vehicle and the smell of the gas (too rich mix I guess) wafted in the window a few seconds after you started the truck - so much realism :) It was surprisingly awesome.
WES I LOVE your humor!! Keep it up!!
Thanks for bringing us along, Wes. Brings back lots of memories. A couple of things i can tell you from experience. The choke is absolutely adjustable. Gm put rivets in the thermostat housing to keep prople from adjusting it. Once you have drilled out the rivets and installed the self tapping screws from the rebuild kit, adjust the choke if your getting an off idle stumble. The choke may be coming off too soon. Also efe stands for early fuel evaporation. When cold, the thermal vacuum switch in the water neck allows vacuum to the valve in the passenger side exhaust closing it off. The exhaust is then directed through a passage in the intake manifold into the drivers side exhaust manifold helping to warm up the carburetor. Also, the vacuum switch in the air cleaner that opens a flap allowing hot air to be drawn up from the exhaust manifold heat riser really helps with cold weather operation. Check and see if it still works. If it does, hook it and the efe back up and adjust the choke to be a bit richer. And all the comments about the fuel well casting plugs leaking are correct. It will give you a hot restart problem. Drill tap and plug with marine tex as a sealer. A good source of information is Rochester carburetors by Doug Roe. Good luck hope you get it fixed.
Hideous carburettors, convert to manual if possible
fit a thermo qud,,holley,,edelbrock.. or buy brand new quadrajet..
I remember those old square body days with the first " automatic " chokes. I used to wish for the good old pole knob choke setup. I used to let my engines warm up for a good 5 minutes, it eliminated so many problems. Especially difficult if you were trying to drive it cold with a stick shift!
Wish I could have been with you on this one, Wes. Those old Quadrajets were my bread & butter back in the day. Rebuilt more than I can remember. When they are tuned correctly, they were a decent carburetor.
Lots of good tips out here from others with same experience.
Couple of things to suggest looking at:
1) Make sure the EGR valve is NOT working when cold, EGR will definitely cause stumbles (looks like it is routed through the other ThermoVac that was not replaced ?.)
2)Verify the Vacuum advance IS working and advance HOLDS vacuum.
3)Many GM vehicles were set up to have Manifold vacuum supplied to the vacuum advance when cold and switch to Ported advance when warm (again, ThermoVac switch).
Problem with that is that when the throttle is opened Manifold Vacuum would drop off (and thus the advance would drop) causing a stumble. The way they solved that
was with a 4 port valve which would slow the vacuum bleed-off when throttle was opened.
On the vacuum hose diagram of your truck GM calls it a Distributor Delay Valve , but it was often referred to as "Trapped Spark" or "Captive Spark" if my memory serves....
No guarantees..... Also, there may be another check valve involved.... It's been a while since I touched one of these...
If you set up a timing light and have a helper operate the throttle when it is cold, in gear (Carefull, block wheels , ETC) you can watch the timing and see if this is what is happening.
Note - You may be able to make it tolerable by just switching it to Ported vacuum permanently, but that will likely require tweaking the choke fast idle setting.
4) It's a bit unusual to ONLY have the choke vacuum break at the rear of the carb, mostly there was a Primary choke break at the right hand front of the carb, mounted on that little
mounting pad with 2 screws and the rear one is a Secondary... It may be built that way, but make sure its not missing the primary.....
5) It's been pointed out by others, but the EFE system (heat riser/ manifold heat) and the thermac (heated air drawn into air cleaner) WERE there for a reason, although I don't
believe they are as crucial or likely the cause of the issues.
Good luck and thanks for an entertaining video
ps- Hope this helps.
The later QuadraJets used the vacuum pot on rear of the carb for both the choke pull-off and secondary lock out, so that isn't missing from this one.
Man, 2 hours of watching Wes work on a Sunday afternoon, thats just awesome. Getting myself a coffee and sit down on the sofa for watching. Best time of the week. Thanks a lot!
I had three square bodies back in the day. The electric choke drove me nuts every time. Particularly on the 305
As I watch this year old video I am 67 years old and it brought back memories of just how much I hated carburetors
Fire extinguisher residue on a Quadrajet is very common.
I graduated High School in 71 and remember a couple of cars with that choke system, heat risers ,evap cans. 30 vacuum lines nite mare stuff. You are right when you said something about being thank full that you did not grow up with carburetors. Keep up the good work. At least we have the benefit of internet searches and information now, we did not back then.
Yiur two years older than me . . . back then you could get parts for 20 year old cars and there just was not that much information needed to do stuff back then because we had good repair manuals and you could swap a motor (or anything else) with anything you could make fit without f'ing up the computer . . .
Virtually nobody knows carbs anymore. Good on you making this kind of video. Hopefully Q-jet experts share some tips. I like the Q-jet and agree with your approach to keeping the emissions and choke all factory. They work real well when setup properly and all the vacuum dampers, etc function properly. You will never get an aftermarket carb to have a decent choke unless it's full on manual in my experience. Q-jets are famous for porosity at the well plug locations in the base and worn throttle shaft bores. Both easy to fix though. Epoxy up the well plugs on the underside of the base to stop fuel drips that make the idle rough and re-bush the throttle shaft bores to stop the air leaks and sticky throttle. Then it's just typical things like accel pump and needle and seat replacement that get wrecked by ethanol gas. Keep the cam stock and fix vacuum leaks and it should run great with a simple rebuild. It's when you cam swap and change the idle / off idle vacuum characteristics that things go sideways. Maintain the original engine characteristics and you won't find a better carb in my opinion.
You are a master, most mechanics would NEVER put that much time and thought into a carb.
When I was working for an oil wholesaler outfit in the early 1970s, there was a big argument against running "detergent" versus non-detergent oil in old engines. I can't even imagine how big that arguement would have been if we'd had the internet back then. And I am a "middle" boomer, and didn't have a fuel injected vehicle (other than a diesel) until it was pretty much standard equipment, and I never successfully got a carbureted vehicle running "perfectly" for more than a week. I also like to point out that a "tune-up" with points, plugs and condenser replaced, timing checked and set, and usually oil leaks plugged was done on roughly the same frequency as an oil change now. I have been accused of using a hammer to adjust a carburetor, and will honestly admit that in some cases there's a fine line between "adjustment" and "wanton destruction."🙄
Amen!
They ain't no way
Except that to my understanding there is a definite point ton that logic. Typical old agricultural engines and general machinery like lathes and mill have no means for fine oil filtration. You want as much junk sticking to the pan because otherwise it is being recirced thru the bearings ad nauseam....
@@Zonkotron Please note, I wasn't arguing the point one way or another, I was just saying that even at my advanced age, I remember how much controversy there was, well before the advent of the "internet expert." (And we sold non-detergent oil for "service stations" where it was used in automotive engines, and I know even there, the filters weren't up to today's standards.)
Dunno, I have a 75 Nova as a daily with a 350 from a 71. It currently has an Edelbrock 4 barrel. I havent touched a setting on that for 2 years and its still running perfect. Starts on the first revolution every time.
Wes, love your videos you are among my favorites. Old Chevy guy here, you have done all the correct repairs to the carb. Believe that you have slightly loose timing chain from old age and mileage. Two more degrees will fix your problem. It’s slack and overlap old gm mechanic trick. Truck will respond better and do less hesitating when cold. Worked next to the best quadrajet man at a gm dealership for a while when I was very young. Learned many secrets about those carbs and trying to get the lean out of them. Like the longer videos, thanks for taking the time to do them!
Wes. You sir, have the patience of a saint, the smarts of an engineer and the voice of a professor. Sterling work as always mister. 😏
you had my attention for the complete 1hr 22min. Always look forward to your videos. Great job Wes, Love the way you keep trying to do the best you can. In a age where most mechanics if you can call them mechanics just want to remove and replace, you are a true perfectionist. you are truly unique. so glad i found your videos better then tv, I learn, I laugh at your dry humor and you bring me back to the days that i used to be more involved with mechanics.
It's fun watching you struggle with a carb that I struggled with 50 years ago!
Don't worry-it will be fine!
As much as you know about the equipment and vehicles you work on and the manner in which you describe your troubleshooting, its really easy to forget that you're not a 50 year old mechanic. Hearing you say you don't know much about automotive carburetors is a definite reminder that you're part of the younger set.
Well I have my dad for the old school stuff. He said I was asking too much from it...
@@WatchWesWork I think the 'millennial' mindset of 'get in and drive (with no warm up)' and things run totally fine was asking too much of the old junk. So I've got to agree with your dad on that one.
thank goodness we have efi now, I really dislike carbs too!
Your dads not wrong when he says you’re asking too much of it. Probably would have been cheaper when you count up the labor to just put on one of those efi conversion units
@@WatchWesWork Yeah, I'd agree. I've "successfully" rebuilt one single quadrajet carb in my life and I'm pretty sure on that one I deleted the choke (I live in the south).
@@mechanictaft4848 I used to think the same as you - I bought a new Eldebrock AFB in the early 1990s to replace a 4BBL Motorcraft on a 429, and it was the biggest tooling-worn-out piece of crap that I have ever seen. The throttle shaft bores were way sloppy on a BRAND NEW carburetor. You could see light around all four throttle plates through the venturis. I couldn't get it to idle lower than 700rpm with the plates fully closed due to the air leaks, and the tiny vacuum pulloff cylinder and piston inside the choke housing fit so loosely that it never worked at all. I showed all of these issues to the store and returned it. It ran just as bad as the Motorcraft carb that was on the engine previously.
Then I installed a Holley ProJection and never looked back. It had its own issues, but I never wanted to go back to a carb'd vehicle after that. In hindsight, I should have found the correct-CFM Quadrajet and put that on instead. These had such a bad reputation, but I learned how they worked, how to fix and adjust them, and had fantastic success with them on several of my own vehicles as well as other cars/trucks that I worked on. The small primary bores have excellent drivability and fuel economy, and the secondaries make the most excellent moaning sound (with stock air filter housing lid flipped over) under full load, as you watch the red needle in the fuel gauge sink!
Wes, your deadpan humour and quips are some of the best I’ve seen. You never laugh, and most people would miss them. But when you catch them, they’re so good. Keep up the great work.
Hello Wes,
Wow the chrome gear shift lever is even rusty. At least the body is good condition.
The late 70's early 80's carbed vehicles were very problematic and extremely frustrating. It even got worse when they introduced the ECM to control some carb functions. Then we advanced to throttle body. No wonder why we are using fuel injection today. I would suggest a new Holley. Or raise the radiator cap and drive a new vehicle under it.
Good luck, Boe
Hi Wes! Back in the day, a brand new small block Chevy did the same thing. Hard start, stalling when cold, stumble on tip in. Solved it all by replacing the Quadra-Junk with a Holly Spred Bore. Ran smooth as a gravy sandwich. Thanks for taking the extra time to share, I learn and it brings back memories!
In the 80's some people called them Quad Bogs. The zinc deal in the oil is a controversy you read about on the internet. I use SAE 10W30 in small engines instead of straight 30W and people say that is bad too.
The only thing worse were the Thermo-Quads on the Mopars. There is a reason Holley sold so many carbs.
Mmm gravy samich yummy 😋
Couldn't agree more. Holleys are cheap, easy, and they just work. Rochesters are expensive overcomplicated junk. If you want complicated and expensive then just get a set of Webers. Once they're set up you'll have wicked power, reliability, and a glorious noise. A Rochester will give you none of those things.
Ah...but the right tuning got you better mileage than the Holley.
Manual choke for the win. I've never been able to sort an auto choke when they go bad.
Always just converted them, to the point where everytime I got another car I'd just change it, to save the hassle down the road.
Absolutely!!!
Why did they put auto chokes on cars manuals are much better It's a simple operation
@@neilmurphy845 Because they think people should be able to get in and go knowing nothing about how to actually operate the vehicle. Having to know a bit about a car in order to operate it correctly is no longer a thing. It's sad. You SHOULD be required to understand how things work in order to drive a car.
Without even watching, I literally laughed out loud reading this. First real carb ass kickin I got was a quadrajunk. BUT, when you get em right, she's a beaut! Timing is a KEY in gettin these things right. When you get it right, you'll know! Set the choke with three full throttle hits and BUMP the key. No matter the time of year! Great work! Keep it up!!!
Ahhh yes, the good ol' quadra-jet and the Chevy 350! I remember it well! The whole Persian Gulf stands up and cheers every time you turn the ignition!
Wes, I’ve watched your channel for a long time, so please tell me that you do some “normal” repairs that you don’t film. It seems you get everyone’s impossible projects and always fix them. You have so much patience, great job once again.
Love the long uploads!
I hope you guys like it. It took something like 8 hours to edit...
@@WatchWesWork I really enjoyed it, top notch quality!!
@@WatchWesWork Worth every second, love the long uploads too!
TLDW
@@WatchWesWork Love it. Long time viewer here, never dared to comment before. I know its a lot of work to put these long videos together and watch them over and over again during the edditing process, so its probably not feasible very often. So I'm just happy when you manage to make long vid. Love the shorter ones too.
As a suggestion , while mrs. Wes is cranking the starter , observe the rear choke pull off to see if it’s opening the choke valve properly . This model Rochester doesn’t have a front choke pull off so we can’t fault that .
I’m not a carburetor expert either , but I can spell carburetor correctly now . But seriously , no matter how many carburetors I’ve had my hands on through the years , they will test you and you will test them back . You’ve gone above and beyond on this build , well , rebuild .
At least you’ve bothered to install throttle shaft bushings when almost no one ever does . You also restored what is fairly important for what the engine may actually need in terms of vacuum lines and the thermal vacuum switch . You changed out , after a proper diagnostic check , the choke thermostat . I sure hope they make those as good as they used to ? Sorry you had to hassle over this adventure but I still like the quadrajet carburetor and would still like to have my faith in them .
Wes I don’t know how you keep your cool some times. Your patience is due noted. You just didn’t give up. How I wish I had a technician like you!
I grew up with those carbs. Haven't had one apart in many years and happily so.... LOL ! Pretty much back in the day it was standard procedure to yank off the old Quadrajet as quickly as possible and replace it with a Holley. Great episode, really enjoyed it and BTW...I admire your tenacity !
Wes, all of the carbureted cars I grew up with had some sort of stumble during warm up. Not one of them worked anything like modern fuel injected vehicles. You did a fine job of putting this truck back on the road. Modern fuel injected vehicles start, warm up, and run far better than most carbureted cars from a temperature range of -20F to 100F.
Exactly. It's not fuel injection. Just the weather changing, changes how they start each day.
I vaguely remember (it was a long time ago.) There are some aluminium plugs in the base of the middle section or the plate of these carbs that suck air too. You seal the underside of the with JB weld and sand flat. It helps. Or you go out and buy an Edelbrook carb, which is easy to install with simple well written instructions. They just bolt in and work. You warm it up for ten minutes and set the mixtures, make sure the cable/linkage gets full throttle and take it for a 10 minute drive and write up the bill, Done I've fitted 4 of them, 2 years on no probs. we fitted one to a 58 Cadillac that wouldn't consistently idle. It was rented out with a driver for weddings etc. It had to be right. It idles and improved the gas mileage. I got sick of dealing with worn throttle shafts over tightened bases and lids. Holley power valves that dont. Etc Urgh.!#$%^&*()(!!! And yes I am a patient person. LOL The best thing you could have done with that carb it to walk across your driveway and throw it into the corn field as far as you can.
The q-jets would leak fuel at the bottom of the bowl past the grey plugs. They would be hard to start from flooding and if they sat long enough the bowl would empty. Just use a little JB Weld to stop the leaks. Great video you worked your butt off on that old beater.
Back in the day they sold a kit to replace that bi spring with a manual cable set up.
I swapped out a lot of them.
Date night: priceless. Popcorn and watch Wes work video over an hour long 👍
I like that nylon fuel line option. Won't rust like the steel hard line and won't soften up and rot out like the rubber line. I'm sure those eventually fail too but I've never seen one fail before on the more modern stuff. Just things like bad check valves, pumps and filters on anything that uses it.
Good job Wes. I really enjoy watching old stuff come back to life.
This whole series is pure gold. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos and brighten all our weekends. :)
Very much with saving the old iron , Thanks Wes!
Great video Wes you have the patience of a saint 👍
I have worked on a lot of these Gen 1 engines and have often had lean carb issues. First thing to check is to clean the seat on the EGR valve. While in the closed position it could be venting exhaust into the intake manifold. Second, if this engine has an Aluminum Intake Manifold spray some carb cleaner around the parameter and look for leaks. With an Iron Block and Aluminum Manifold the different expansion rates work the gasket. More than once I pulled an Intake manifold to find the gasket crumbling in my hands. Good Luck.
There's a 3/8" bolt you can pull out and put a longer one in it's place to keep that fuel pump rod retracted.
I pulled that bolt then used my 3rd hand with a screw driver to hold it up...
@@WatchWesWork Ahh brilliant! FYI, I never use them either.
I will be 60 soon. Back in the day, when we had hair, we started out driving carburerated cars. THEY DIDNT WORK RIGHT THEN! i can recall being so happy to buy, and to get into a 79 mustang with FUEL INJECTION! Starting was always a nightmare on cold rainy days! Even in the late 70s the skill of tuning carbs was limited to old guys that had a repair business with a fancy machine that was the size of an entire shop bay
I don't think the Mustang got fuel injection until 1984.
Good onya Wes,
Wow epic video, love your work.
Worked at GM in the 80s, rebuilt LOTS of those carbys.
Two things
The float absorbs fuel with age sinking slightly, causes havoc, replace it.
The accelerator pump check ball seat attention the bottom of the bowl gets corroded, usually you can whack the old ball with a punch to reseat it and then put the new ball in. If it doesn't seat you loose some of the squirt, and it hesitates.
The throttle shaft is a biggie.
Also, the top of the Carby can get distorted from people over tightening the air filter wing nut. Then you can loose vacuum to the power valve etc. If you run a file across it you can regain the seal.
It took way too long to invent fuel injection.
On the ultrasonic cleaner, I find that Original Pinesol works well, and works better if diluted with water - don’t get any scented or other versions. I also use Fantastik, again the concentrated multi surface stuff in the gallon jug, and it works fantastic. The purple Simple Green is okay, but I prefer it in the parts washer, and it is a bit expensive. I use the ultrasonics a lot, and tend to wear them out. You can also use the Pinesol in a slow cooker over night, since the heat is doing a lot of the work, as you noticed. Take the hot parts from the slow cooker, then brush them in the parts washer, and they come out really shiny.
On the Zinc, many of the additives are pretty straight forward, and won’t do anything bad to the oil and its additives. If you can, check that it is just ZDDP in an oil base, or ZDDP and ZDTP and an oil base. Most of the name brand ones are just that. The big problem with Zinc additives, and the reason they were removed from oil, is because Zinc will kill your catalytic converter earlier than necessary. Any blow-by or burning oil in combustion will send Zinc right down the exhaust. There will always be some oil burning, so eliminating the Zinc from the oil makes the cats last longer. Because they needed to eliminate the Zinc from the oil, and needed to meet tighter EPA guidelines, cars and trucks went to roller or hydraulic lifters. The two things went hand-in-hand according to a plan. If your vehicle is an oil burner, you have to stay away from Zinc oils and additives, or you will be buying a new cat. If it is a tappet and it smokes, fix the oil burning before going too far so you can use Zinc, or just plan on a redesign of the cam and lifters after they wear out from using non-Zinc oil.
Those old carbureted engines had VERY high cold idles. (The engine would ROAR on a subzero morning until it was warm enough to kick-down) Also, deleting the hot-air riser function had a big impact on cold-weather running. (dont ask me how I know this :-)
I just don't see how someone could afford to hire a shop to work on such junk. Watching you snatch victory from the jaws of defeat is somewhat inspiring. You seem to be a patient man. You should have been a U.S. Marine. They have a saying that reminds me of you and it goes like this. "You have done so much with so little for so long, you can now do the impossible with nothing"! I learn from your videos and enjoy them. Thanks for sharing.
Wes just a couple of things you might check. A vacuum leak in brake booster . The egr valve uses ported vacuum if constant vacuum is applied it will screw up the idle. One last thing is the aneroid that adjusts the fuel air ratio for high altitude . It is located
Across from the acclerator pump and it is adjustable. Thanks for bringing us along including all the problems.
Wes u do a good work I have learn so much from u in all trucks u have worked on thank u again
The way I've always rebuilt the Quadrajunk carbs is to throw em in the trash can right next to the POS Holley carbs, and replace it with an Edlebrock or a Weber and never have to touch the carb ever again. Just my personal experience of working on my own cars for the last 40 years.
34:55 "might as well do what we should have done from the start". I was hoping/expecting Wes to just drive the truck into a field and set it on fire... but fuel lines were probably good too.
My brother just picked up a 86 k10 last week, so this is valuable information for us. Thank you Wes for your terrific teaching.
I preferred the Q-jet to the gas-leaking, float-sticking Holley . You could putt around on the small primary’s and save gas. Once you wanted to bring the thunder, you had the big secondaries. Great carbs when set up correctly. I had mine done, though, back in the late 80’s. Never learned how to tune them myself
Wes I've had several Chevy square body's. Never knew you needed to bend the tabs on brake pads. Ps the quadraujets get a bad rap . The older pre emissions models work well for me .
The choke heater issue notwithstanding, I'm pretty sure the throttle bushing needed changing because of a major vacuum leak. This was a very common, and very frustrating problem back in the Day! I wish I had this video/ information back then.... Thanks Wes!
Thanks for taking the time to make these videos, awesome to see how things are done.
Thanks for all the great videos Wes, appreciate the hell out of them all
i run berrymans' chem dip in my cleaner. i've been using it for years before ultrasonic cleaners came around. don't lose or mix up those check balls. quadrajunks will not run right no matter what if you do. they get a bad rep, but they work really well when they are set up right. this truck is what we called "cold blooded". you pump the pedal half a dozen times before a cold start, and mebbe hold it to the floor and they start right up, and run well when warmed up. the older, exhaust warmed choke springs were adjustable, the only reason this type isn't is because they had to be set just so to meet emissions standards, and were then permanently fixed there with rivets. reclock the choke spring until it works better, then clamp it in place with the screws. these older systems were better set by ear, than by specs most times.
I was so impressed with the electric choke on the Holley 4-barrel carb that I put in my 72 Ford Gran Torino Sport that I replaced it with a manual choke and control cable. That was in the 1980's and it was a simple, all-electric choke, so don't feel too bad about being tripped up by the rather complicated Rochester choke.
@@brentanderson722 I can see why.
Nice job.
I tinker with these old squarebodys a fair bit. (They are still common to see on the roads out west)
Getting those old worn out q-jets to work well takes patients.
Great carb rebuild. Years ago and I mean 70/80s, before Amazon had ready made reamers. I went to a machinist supply house and bought reamers and bushings for that very same repair to the throttle shafts. They worked on early TBI bodies also. They were expensive but worked well. Always enjoy your videos. Takes me back to my younger days. Thanks, the old school guy.
I’m 65, and now you know why I stopped working on cars in the 80’s.😂😂😂
LOL! You're expecting modern performance from an old system. You have to DRIVE these old girls. Feather the accelerator. You never pulled out into traffic before these were good and warm. Stalling on takeoff was a common cause of accidents. I think the greatest benefit of all the electronics and computer stuff is the ability to get in and go and not have to wait on that car 1/4 mile away before you pull out of your driveway.
Boy , do I remember this well, back when I had to go to work on a cold morning.I still remember my mother teaching me to pump the gas on our 62 chevy belaire wagon before starting with ignition key. I think you did pretty dam well, "Wes still is best"! Enjoyed watching, thanks for your time and skill. Remember, learning never stops, unless you is dead.
Thank you again Wes. Always always good. You never give up even when the going gets tough.
Wes checkout some of Thunder head 289 videos ( he is from the newer gen. but is quite good on carbs). He gets pretty in-dept about tuning carbs and how they work . Think you would enjoy .
PREACH them transfer slots
Awesome video Wes, sure makes my weekend. Keep up the great work brother
This is such a great channel Wes. I love it and always learn something new. I love the way you film it and your humour works for me.... 🤣🤣🤣 Thanks.
All the credit in the world for putting this crate back on the road Wes. First class work.
I'm an older Millennial so I do remember carburettors and having to pump the accelerator pedal twice. I also remember my dad buying leaded fuel (4 star) at the pump. That being said I have never worked on one. I much prefer fuel injection. I find it less intimidating than having to take one of these apart.
The “Lee “ plugs on these carbs leak pretty often, and really messed up adjustments. Leaked fuel thru the base. So, we always JB weld epoxied them. My carb guy was great on these. Me? Not so much, but what do I know? Service manager here, and Chrysler mechanic in my day. So, good job buddy.
Exactly what I was going to suggest. They're famous for those plugs leaking. I have always SLIGHTLY tapped them to snug them back up, then coated them with a coat of JB Weld. I think he needs to adjust the choke spring better too. I was a Chrysler tech for over 20 years, so it's good to hear from the brotherhood lol.
I had to teach my wife how to rebuild the Quadrajet on our Camaro back in the '90's. She got tired of those leaky plugs dumping all of the fuel in the float bowl right into the intake. She would be stuck wherever she was with a flooded engine until all of the extra fuel evaporated off. Good times.
I once heard that GM's "official" fix was to jam a piece of thick felt in the well. Screwing the carb back together would be like tightening the stuffing box around the prop-shaft on a boat and stop the leak:)
I learned to drive on an ‘83 gmc 3500 van, and it was 12 pumps on the gas to get it to start. That truck seems to run better than our van did.
Another great video Wes. Thanks for letting us watch you work 😀
Lots of great suggestions in the comments, here, like resealing the well plugs, eliminating all vacuum leaks, etc.
If you ever have the truck back in your shop:
- Verify TDC @ crank balancer and timing cover tab. Outer ring on balancer can slip when they get that old.
- Once TDC is verified, increase initial timing to 10-12° BTDC. That should improve the engine's manners across the board.
That bump in initial timing would also affect the distributor's total timing, so that'd have to be modded, if the you decided to keep the new initial timing.
Thanks very much for putting yourself through all the filming and editing so we can all come along. It's always fun, and I always learn something new from you.
I know you enjoy having people look over your shoulder and second guess you,I also had that privilege for over 40 years. I was curious if you checked the advance weights under the rotor to see that they were free and lubricated. Great channel love all your videos,keep up the good work.
Wes, I liked all the fuel lines be tossed to the floor! Nice filmography! Nothing is ever easy on old rusty vehicles.
Truly, an epic saga! One for the ages! I winced, I cheered, I laughed, I cried. In the end, our dauntless hero triumphed over insurmountable odds. I was emotionally spent and will require copious amounts of respite, (and beer) prior to the next deep dive.
😆
I learn a lot from you, sometime I learn more from you when you are on the struggle bus. Keep the videos coming.
Oh Wes your a legend love your channel I appreciate it thank-you boston uk 🇬🇧
hey wes love your channel my son has a 68 c10 his grandad gave him with a 327 with a rochester quad we took it off and installed a holley sniper efi smartest thing we did on this truck
I have worked on several quadrajets. There are several modifications that you can make to improve performance. it's a decent factory carburetor.
Glad you got it working. First thing I do on these old things is check all your canisters with a vacuum pump, and check idle vacuum. Choke pull off and advance are common. EGR. Etc... Often they're all bad. But choke adjustment is pretty critical on these too. If you have low vacuum, everything is off. And people spend weeks debugging while never getting a vacuum reading.
Had a quad on a 350ci 74' Chevy truck the SUPER choke was a bizarre phenomenon in space and time glad dad and I gave up got a MANUAL choke cable went OLD SCHOOL on that sucker 😅
I think I’m going to go into the tank anti squeak kit business.
Hey Wes - had an 81 back in the day - the darn things were just not that great runners when they were cold - enjoyed this video you sure do go the extra mile hope you can come up with a solution to this one!!!
Tip for the ultrasonic cleaner: Fill it up with plain water (and a drop off dish soap to cut surface tension) and put the parts to be cleaned into a gallon Ziploc bag with the desired cleaning solution. This way you can use different cleaning solutions for different metals without draining the tank and it makes recovering small parts a breeze.
Also, Valvoline makes a high-zinc oil, their VR-1 racing oil. I've also had good luck with the high moly oils (the ones that pour black out of the bottle) on old air cooled stationary engines with flat tappet cams. It makes checking the oil level a breeze on the dipstick too!
Sent here by Mortske! Love your channel and drive to get the job done right! Thanks for sharing your experiences. 👊
"If there's one thing we don't want on a 40 year old truck that's been abandoned for 12 years, it's a minor rattle." Lol. You and I have a very similar sardonic, deadpan approach to the Monday morning quarterbacks in the comments. Great stuff Wes, as always.