Let's talk about the tanks. Bulk transport and bulk storage will use carbon fiber. Vehicle applications are typically type 2. A thin gauge metal tank wrapped in either glass or carbon fiber. Typically glass is used because carbon fiber is about 10 times the cost. Once molded, it can be difficult to tell the difference between glass & carbon fiber rovings. This link should help (I worked for a large carbon fiber manufacturer). astforgetech.com/compressed-natural-gas-cng-storage-options-ultimate-guide/#:~:text=CNG%20tanks%20are%20made%20of%20steel%2C%20aluminum%2C%20or%20composite%20materials
In Australia buses used cng with the tanks on the roof. They took forever to fill and the fill pressure was raised to shorten the time. During refilling at Mt Gravatt a talk ruptured which cause a chain reaction of the cylinders flying off. The tax office is next door and believed a bowl went off.
Try out front of a Home Depot or a Lowe's. The one I went to had a large drop-off can near the front entrance, next to one of those mobile sub sandwich places. They also had a cooking oil/cooking grease container there also.
@@coloradostrong8285 They don't existing in my area. I even asked. No we don't take batteries or fluorescent light tubes either. I can't find anywhere to take that stuff.
What about Best Buy, do they still recycle batteries? They used to, for years. I used to take tube TVs there, before PA and many other states changed recycling laws for electronics.
Joined the fire service in 1971. We only had to worry about the magnesium in the volkswagen engines. Need to be more aware of all the new fuel technologies.
I remember seeing a magnesium transfer case on a Chevy truck the reason I figured out it was magnesium was because there was a hole in it and I had it ripped apart. I decided to weld it (thinking it was aluminum) but luckily I saw the recycling mark on it before I started or I would've been calling you.
I drive a commercial front load garbage truck, 15 years now. I had a load fire 18 months ago, in approx 5 tons of cardboard and blue bag recyclables. Started with a battery someone chucked into their recycling. Our procedure begins with trying to compress the load a much a possible which does three things to help the situation. First is limits the amount of oxygen available to the fire, second it pushes the fire into the rear of the body and under the steel roof area, third it pushes the fire and heat away from hydraulics and air lines. All this buys time to find the nearest best place to push the load off. In my case the best I could find was a wide spot in a side road that was as far as possible from other structures, cars etc. I would have loved a big open parking lot, but nothing of the sort was available in the short window I had to work with. It took almost three hours to put out, the truck was fine. I just recently was assigned a brand new truck, a Mack that is CNG with roof tanks. We have other CNG trucks that have the tanks in the tailgate of the truck. I think the roof tanks are a safer bet.
Looking at the damage to the truck, it looks like it had the roof mounted tanks. Seems like either the casing was damaged or the pressure relief completely failed. Should have turned into a blow torch, not a projectile.
In Europe we have plastic plug in cng tanks. That plug melts at 200 celsius. Tanks have also over pressure valve 250 bar. Tank is filled to 200-220 bar.
We use a similar safety system here (though I don’t know about these particular tanks) but sometimes the plug doesn’t melt before an explosion happens or the tank is compromised and the explosion is a secondary side effect.
That was the plug he said will not melt when you cool it with water. Even in India, they would use safety plugs on stuff like this. The issue is how it fails in the wild, not how it fails in the engineers mind
In a fire situation though you have both heat and as the fuel expands compression. A diesel tank can become a firebomb. Diesel doesn’t light very well cold, but at a couple hundred degrees it burns pretty violently.
Yeah we drive new CNG dump truck rigs. The trucks that the new cng rigs replaced were on the road for over 10 years and were build like tanks. They were cat 13, cat 15 diesel with 10 speed manuals. These new cng trucks are heavier and have Allison 4000 automatic transmission that can’t pull worth a dime. The companies are going this route because of the environmental cutbacks and it’s all political.
Why I kept my fuel oil heater. That tank sits ( legally)right next to home. The propane guy could only find one place on my lot that he would have been able to legally place a propane tank.
Is not bad. I started working on this cng garbage trucks about 15 years ago and the fires are rare. Again they been running for over 15 years how many people have they killed.
I drove a semi tractor that was CNG and Diesel for a very short time. Fully loaded at 80,000 lb, the CNG couldn't provide the torque needed for hill climbs, so it would automatically switch to diesel with no warning to me. The shift RPMs were considerably between the two fuels, thus causing a great deal of frustration and not a few dangerous moments when my speed decreased quickly. I was hauling a pressurized load of sugar in a pneumatic bulk tanker which only made the whole trip more exciting. Knowing there was a CNG tank directly behind my head while I moved what was essentially a bomb on the roadways made me question my life choices. Once was enough. CNGs and EVs are too inherently unstable in an accident. We like to think our tech is "there". But it isn't and I'm not going to be a Beta tester for that tech.
EVs unstable? They're currently the most stable vehicles on the roadway since most of their weight is below the centerline and evenly distributed throughout the vehicle's frame. The *BATTERIES* aren't exactly stable depending on the amount of damage they sustain, though.
At first I thought there should be a system for venting thje gas to negate the possibility of explosion. Then I saw what the venting of CNG looks like. Why sideways?
Great explanation of factors and differences related to these alternative fuels. I agree that new tecnological solutions must be found to reduce the potential catastrophic failures seen in these tanks. I also agree with your assessments of litium-ion batteries of all sizes. This time of major transition in technology related to transportation is significantly different than the transition from animal powered to fossil fuel powered vehicles, that's for sure. Unfortunately, emergency services personell are the ones put at the greatest risk in the case of an incident involving this new techhnology. Your channel is a great source of sound information and opportunities to learn and expand the search for new solutions. Thank you.
I realize this is a CNG issue, but you mentioned it may have been caused by an improperly disposed lithium ion battery. What is the best way to dispose of lithium batteries, of all common types, including laptop replacement batteries, phone replacement batteries, ebike batteries, lithium motorcycle batteries, calculator batteries, and common aa-cell, d-cell batteries? What is the best place to google this disposal info? If fees are involved with consumer disposal, I worry the proper disposal methods may often not be followed and deposit-return refunds may need to be added when selling the new battery to incentivize proper recycling.
There are a lot of issues around the disposal of lithium-ion batteries. I'm working with a recycler to create content around that topic for the future.
@@StacheDTrainingI take my batteries to the local transfer station where the trash company runs a household hazmat collection program. How they package them and ship them I have no idea.
in germany we got recyling centers that deal with these questions... if you are lucky they got a phamplet lying around that lists what they want you to put into which bin... usually there are two around (one run by the town and on run by the county)... in addition there are the trashcans they collect with garbage-trucks these got a flyer with what you are not supposed to throw in there... been living in two different countys the last 10 years (plus insight into this at my folks home) so plenty of options to choose from (since about 60% of the trash you want to get rid of has DIFFERENT solutions in all these listings) i usually only care with batteries and spraycans to follow their wishes (for batteries they most got a special bin to collect em in but different wishes what kind of battery you can dispose there... for example any battery permanently installed in a divice you have to bring to a store that sells that kind of divice (that will refuse to take in divices of brands they do not sell ) tldr: if you skipped to this line you are the kind of person that would toss em into the normal garbage bin and burn down a garbage truck on occation
Evacuate the area and wait. Same technique for a burning load of Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil Mix. (Another common road transport load in areas where mining happens). You just need to find all the parts in a half mile an hour later after it detonates. Tyre fires are a common cause of heavy vehicle fires too (caused by hot brakes). Overwrapped cylinders BURN…
@allangibson8494 😲 I thought you werent supposed to put the FO with the AN until you had it it the hole in the ground? Yeah, yeah diesel spill and all.
When I first noticed the use of CNG garbage trucks in my town, I thought wow, that's a good idea. Now I'm a little concerned that safety regulations need to be updated.
I find it disconcerting that,less than 10 years ago CNG was heralded as THE SOLUTION TO SAVE THE PLANET! These days that is being downplayed by the hedge funds. batteries,Batteries,BATTERIES! Yes, lithium ion batteries involved here. Imagine that. Thank you sir for your continuing proffessional concern, and reporting,on these catastrophes.
@@randomidiot8142 I don't understand what government regulations on fracking, etc., have to do with the viability of CNG (or any petroleum based chemical) as a fuel source.
My friend is a garbage truck driver and crew person in the UK and they are being driven mad by fires caused by vape batteries - they having 1 to 3 fires a week now due to them - The response for years now has been to eject the load onto the roadway when a fire is found to be happening - it both help the firefighters fight the fire and it save the garbage truck from being damaged
No matter how much we think we progress, we always forget about history. Im the 1950's we started using butane instead of diesel because of the huge power difference in heavy trucks. 3 guesses why we stopped doing that
An alternative to CNG is LPG which isn't stored in highly pressurized tanks. It just has the habit to sink to the lowest point and either make you fall unconcious and die or catch fire.
You must have a high benchmark for "high pressure". LPG/Propane is stored under pressure and will explode in a situation like the truck in the video. Search "BLEVE" to see what LPG/Propane tanks are capable of.
Great video, Im feeling very very lucky , for decades Ive worked with those exact tanks that exploded , the safety videos showed a far different scenario showing how they would just blether out and never explode in a fire like these did...
I drove a cng garbage truck for 15 years , the problem is not the cng , the problem is people throwing items like batteries or chemicals or even hot ash in the trash. For the number of cng trucks on the road , incidents like this are rare. So everyone take a deep breath and calm down.
The tanks are filament wound carbon fiber tanks. Carbon fiber matrix has a higher modulus making the tanks lighter & able to hold higher pressures. These tanks also have a fixed lifespan. All too often that is ignored & the result is a failure of the tank integrity. "Rapid unscheduled disassembly"= 'explosion' to us lay persons.
How about a manual release that vents the tank through a vertical stack? Alternatively a pressure activated dump valve that doesn’t rely on heat? Either way a vertical vent pipe would be a good way to avoid anyone nearby getting toasted.
That is a good idea. If fire crews could trigger a release after quickly clearing the area, it could be safer to have a massive torch fire into the air vs. an exploding tank. I have heard of airplanes having an option to dump fuel while flying, since it is safer to let it dissipate into the air than to land with extra fuel on board when doing an emergency landing.
Red Seal Automotive Service Technician & Power Engineer 5th class here. Based on what i see here, a few thoughts: 1. No way is this the fault of First Responders, nor SHOULD they be dumped on with this. How the hell should you lot be expected to know whats in the fuel system?? 2. When are we going to learn carbon fibre pressure vessels arent particularly a good idea? Clearly, whomever designs these tanks are cheaping out; not building the tanks robust enough nor any proper reliable vent off system. These need to go back to the drawing board. 3. As a society we need to get off this ridiculous "green" kick and recognize that for some applications, such as garbage trucks, staying with simple, reliable diesel engines are *vastly* safer than LNG, CNG, or Li-Ion battery packs. We need to recognize the unique risks of garbage trucks, that they may very well catch fire due to propagating Li-Ion tech, & that loss of truck should be expected - and not have catastrophic results. Good luck out there lads & ladies. Government stupidity once again makes First Responders - and the general public! - in particular see even more risk than strictly necessary; all for "the emissions" nonsense.
0:24 - "ladies and gentlemen as we reach the mid-point of the Tour, if you look to your right you can see a loving CNG Mother giving birth to her Fiery Trash Baby..." (best Safari Guide voice)
the key to resolving this is battery pickups as part of regular pickups... you need a garbage truck to pick up trash... they'd only need a pickup truck like an f350 with a dump bed to pick up batteries for an entire town. you want people to recycle make it easier to actually do it.
As preventing a tank explosion for cng, I wonder if they put a lever or button in or around the cab that the cab that the driver can manually vent the tanks once a they see signs of a fire. Since CNG rises from what I understand, it should not present a large hazard that way they may be able to dump the tank before the fire gets to it in some situation. Just a thought anyway
A one time use, eutectic alloy plug or valve would allow the vent to operate regardless. Its used throughout the world in contactors/relays. and various disconnects related to thermal load. Eutectics melt at a consistent temp then reform wen temp drops. But if you used a eutectic plug, it would melt to liquid, then be ejected by the pressurized media. (the gasses) leaving it permanently open to vent and discharge contents in a controlled manner. Volume of discharge is easily limited by cross section of output discharge tube inner circumference.
The new garbage trucks in my area have the CNG tanks on the roof. I guess that may help keep the firefighting water off the tanks. Hopefully there isn't a massove rainstorm when one of these catches fire.
Great explanation, like physics of elephant hanging from cliff by tail ... but if the gas explodes first but does not ignite, what ends up burning seconds later? Not the gas, so then what?
Have they determined that the Blast injuries will be non life threatening? The IED blasts we had in Afghanistan were obviously larger than this but we learnt alot about Blast injuries in the years we were there.
If you have a chance look into Schwan's truck explosions. With the company all but gone there is hopefully going to be a lot of old footage available about just how much LNG each of the long range truck carried and how big a bomb they were.
CNG, LNG, and LPG there are autos out there with all 3 fuel systems. Liquid Natural gas, is like oxygen when turned to a liquid, it requires man made refrigeration to make it and maintain it, without a over pressure event. Thus why compressed Natural gas fuel systems are made, no risk of venting when it sits for days in a vehicle. 3,600psi is the norm, for full CNG tanks. . Propane or LPG is way lower pressures, emergency relief valves are a little over 300 psi, in my experience. Normal operation pressure is directly related to atmosphere temperature. Negative -40F is basically 0 pressure, a hot desert day is about the same as a air compressor tank at 150psi~ But still after it vents most of the fuel, it must be cooled or it definitely goes boom. 0.01c
The problem with PRVs isn't spraying water "preventing" them from operating: the valves are still working fine, pressure just isn't getting to threshold. It is the uneven cooling of the tanks from spraying water from only one side that keeps the pressure below threshold as the other side is being cooked to failure. I can think of at least two options. The first one is to simply make the tank double-walled like a thermos so spraying water or fire on the outer shell doesn't affect internal temperature and pressure anywhere near as much. The other far more complicated one would be to use a handful of wax motors to pop a burst disc by driving needles into it when any of them gets too hot.
@@user-ln7of9gs4s it's also less energy dense and you need more of it. It's great for relatively low powered vehicles like forklifts, not sure it's the best idea for a 350-400hp application.
A job I use to work at would throw electronics into our compactor, I noticed multiple times, capacitors exploding inside the compactor, only a matter of time until they throw lithium batteries inside.
I lived in the US (MA) for 6 years and when I asked people if they had a place to dispose batteries they'd give me a "what are you talking about" look. In my country I can take my batteries to a mall or to my workplace where they collect those batteries and a company comes to pick it up.
The Groot facility that this truck came from is located right next to the school bus facility that I retired from there's only going to be more of these as Groot has made its entire fleet CNG.
Just a little extra context for CNG blasts not being BLEVEs, the typical standard for CNG fuel system pressure is 3,000-3,600 psi. That's more than a welding cylinder Other countries/regions use CNG much more widely in cars. There are a ton of security camera videos where the CNG tank mechanically fail from fatigue, usually during filling. _it's the same as a hand grenade / car bomb_ No fire needed. just the pressure is enough to make the trunk of a car peel open like that garbage truck So this blast might have just been the tank failing from mechanically burning/melting and never actually went _over_ pressure Oh, also, when they do fail like that... it could turn into a fuel air explosive depending on when it ignights. a large vapor cloud forming, hitting stoich and detonating in less than a second
It isn't a bad idea. It is a very useful idea. We store, use, and transport, many gasses at high pressure. Bottles of welding gases can be quite dangerous as well. Even water under high pressure and volume is dangerous and eventually something will go wrong. The question is, how often does it go wrong? EV cars or lithium batter banks catching fire seems to be happening a lot for the small number of them in use. How many CNG tank explosions have you heard of? High voltage DC power was quite dangerous, but it was good enough to start to supply it to the public, but they figured out that AC is better and safer......still not at all without dangers and deaths. I'm not against EVs or compressed gas, but am against mandates, and I do think we need to have ways to deal with failures and make them safer. Even inert gas in a compressed bottle can be lethal. My neighbor had some of the first CNG school busses, as head of transportation for Colton school district in SoCal. If there are a bunch of failures with CNG, then I haven't heard about it, unlike lithium battery fires. I'm a realist and like to know the details rather than just believing the narrative or stats that don't paint an accurate picture.
So , my garbage truck is a ticking time boom just waiting to happen? Allied waste here in Ohio is always bragging about their total conversion of their fleet of trucks but never a mention of the dangers associated with their vehicles! 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
No... Every bus on the road uses cng. Same with trash trucks. This is an extremely rare case. I mean how many times does your phone in your pocket burst into flames because of the lithium ion polymer battery in it? Your phone can just burst into flames if it wants to. Anything with a battery in it because you do that. Just keep living your life
@@samholdsworth420Less than 10% of busses are CNG, even less for garbage trucks. More than half the states do not have the infrastructure to fill CNG vehicles. California is not representative of the entire country.
That's how I felt when I realized I bought a new refrigerator with propane as the coolant (to save the environment ofcourse 🙄) and now I'll never know if it's gona blow while I'm in the kitchen cooking etc. Would have never bought it had I been aware but it looks like they're all made that way nowadays. Better to get an older refurbished fridge imo.
What an ignorant comment. REALLY??? Would you say the same thing if your child, husband, wife, brother, sister, mom, dad...were killed in one of these explosions???
A question I have is why was the firefighter not wearing proper PPE (no helmet) right near the truck ? He should have been behind a fire truck while getting his SCBA on.
I understand what a blevie is for liquid propane. How is cooling a cng cylinder bad? I can see why it may not be helpful. Doesn't cooling still relieve some pressure from building up? Maybe one thought is if you are directly hitting the relief valve, then the relief valve is not sensing the true temperature of the vessel. I could see that, causing it to exceed safe pressure.
I wonder if it would be worth using ballistic cloth in turnout coats? It might be possible to gets some light shrapnel protection (with little if any additional weight) would be useful for a fair number of risks.
@kcgunesq I suspect some do better than others. As long as it doesn't degrade under conditions that won't force replacement anyway then it should be good enough.
Leaving aside the known hazards of lithium ion batteries there is also a big hazard associated with driving around in a vehicle with a tank of methane pressurized to 2000 PSI!
3300 psi or 3600 psi are the fill pressures that I've seen in the gas industry. And the tanks are engineered for burst pressures much higher than that. If a tank gets to burst pressure, one or more other errors were made first. And let's not forget CNG has much less energy density than propane, and we accept propane on much less stringently engineered uses (looking at you, RVs and food trucks).
@@davidfirth1 In which gas industry, I ask because in the industrial gas industry maximum fill pressure is usually 2400 PSI and that lack of energy density you mentioned is the reason they are trying to use such high pressures though that is a fruitless enterprise. Because of Boyle's Law after 3000 PSI you no longer gain that much volume per additional pressure unit!
@ Natural gas. My recollection is our first use of CNG in our own passenger car fleet was 3300 psi and the current truck usually is 3600 psi. But I don't work directly with fill units and it has been a long time since I drove one.
This is another example of why we need to use alternative extinguishing agents to suppress alternative fuels that burn to the point of explosion. Using a Compressed Air Foam application to suppress burning refuse works better than plain water fire stream applications because it penetrates deeper into the seat of the fire due to CAFs chemical and physical properties that plain water doesn’t have.
Another Win for traditional Gas & Diesel vehicles... LPG,EV,CNG all create LARGE VIOLENT explosions, even a traditional ICE fire doesn't create massive explosions like the "green" alternatives... big differences...
Home Depot in my area sells all sorts of li batteries like millwakie desalt and Makita with absolutely no disposable way to dispose of them properly. So the end up in the regular trash. Jmtc
Since in many countries vaping devices and other things like that are sold as single-use and disposable, while containing LiPo cells, this trend will continue for a long time.
I randomly brought this up vs "experts" one video and said just this. They stated per their observation the emergency valve is defective. They're "experts" solely cause they are stringers in LA. It was that LA video what caused me to learn more about CNG tanks. Watch some long ass training videos, this channel. My background is Law Enforcement and Automotive Repair Technician. I constructively said they errored about CNG emergency relief valve. LA Metro bus on fire. Then attack me for being wrong, stupid, with 0% experience responding to, seeing in person, speaks with LAFD PIO, Chiefs, such CNG fire. Now watching this video causing me to have an 💡 -Put temperature sensors in the box of trash truck. -temperature sensors on tanks -Come up with a tank cooling system, make tanks vacuum insulated like Yeti mug. -Make a device that can manually open relief valves via cab, externally, remotely. Use a Automotive seat belt tensioner with cable or rod to added valve. You can activate via drone, bomb robot, create CNG Safety Management System that can auto activate the added valves based on data from probes and sensors added to truck. My thought too have multiple temp probes that are able to probe the middle/core of that trash section, advanced warning to drump trash, release CNG tanks, etc before a runaway. Departments begin purchasing armored vehicles like Bearcat, Hummvees or similar armored/military vehicles with roof armored turrets. Smaller armored vehicles tow a water trailer and pump attaching to vehicle. Sorry for ramble
While the fire by whatever source started the chain of events, it seems clear that the fire alone is not the problem. The lack of safety mechanisms to relief over pressure due to excessive heat seems very obvious.
You answered my question about the CNG tanks having PRV's. Looks like a re-design is in order to let them vent earlier. Maybe this was a mixed BLEVE and CNG explosion, because by the time the PRV would activate, the tank pressure rose due to heating from the fire, causing the BLEVE to also release the CNG(??) Not sure if that can happen, but wanted to throw the idea out there.
@@gtbproductions1 The CNG by itself isn't a big problem. But there was a chain of causation here that caused a big problem. Diesel is dirtier, including soot particles which humans don't need in their lungs.
@@markh.6687Don't look a diesel through a microscope, look at is through a telescope. In the BIG picture of things, you have a diesel garbage truck coming around once a week and spends...2 minutes in front of your home. Chances are you are not even home. The carbon footprint on these trucks is so small, they wont even register on a scale.
Let's talk about the tanks. Bulk transport and bulk storage will use carbon fiber. Vehicle applications are typically type 2. A thin gauge metal tank wrapped in either glass or carbon fiber. Typically glass is used because carbon fiber is about 10 times the cost. Once molded, it can be difficult to tell the difference between glass & carbon fiber rovings. This link should help (I worked for a large carbon fiber manufacturer). astforgetech.com/compressed-natural-gas-cng-storage-options-ultimate-guide/#:~:text=CNG%20tanks%20are%20made%20of%20steel%2C%20aluminum%2C%20or%20composite%20materials
I had a '78 F-150 with a 50 gallon LPG Steel Tank and no Issues(loved it)....It ran better in the Winter of SD than Gasoline....
In Australia buses used cng with the tanks on the roof. They took forever to fill and the fill pressure was raised to shorten the time. During refilling at Mt Gravatt a talk ruptured which cause a chain reaction of the cylinders flying off. The tax office is next door and believed a bowl went off.
@@MausMasher54 - Yup, I love my LPG powered IH Scout II. Big ol' steel saddle tank mounted where the original gas tank went.
Everybody says "recycle your batteries." Everywhere we've lived, no one in government could tell me WHERE the recycle center for batteries is!
Try out front of a Home Depot or a Lowe's. The one I went to had a large drop-off can near the front entrance, next to one of those mobile sub sandwich places. They also had a cooking oil/cooking grease container there also.
@@coloradostrong8285 They don't existing in my area. I even asked. No we don't take batteries or fluorescent light tubes either. I can't find anywhere to take that stuff.
@@Core-vu6mc Sorry. Guess it goes in the back of one of these natural gas powered garbage trucks LOL.
Most bigger hardware stores have battery recycling.
What about Best Buy, do they still recycle batteries? They used to, for years. I used to take tube TVs there, before PA and many other states changed recycling laws for electronics.
Joined the fire service in 1971. We only had to worry about the magnesium in the volkswagen engines. Need to be more aware of all the new fuel technologies.
How about the Cosworth engine in some AMC Gremlins?
Haha, we had a garden shed fire about 20yrs ago, had multiple VW engines and gearboxes in there, they sure do look pretty when the water hits them 😁
Gas has been around since the 70s
BMW N52, years produced 2006-2015.
I remember seeing a magnesium transfer case on a Chevy truck the reason I figured out it was magnesium was because there was a hole in it and I had it ripped apart. I decided to weld it (thinking it was aluminum) but luckily I saw the recycling mark on it before I started or I would've been calling you.
This is my silly little moment to express to all firefighter/1st Response people out there: Thank you for what you do every day.
Amen!
Not silly at all, we take these guys and girls for granted all to often.
Yes, the REAL heroes NOT athletes!!
nobody cares about your virtual thanks
I drive a commercial front load garbage truck, 15 years now. I had a load fire 18 months ago, in approx 5 tons of cardboard and blue bag recyclables. Started with a battery someone chucked into their recycling. Our procedure begins with trying to compress the load a much a possible which does three things to help the situation. First is limits the amount of oxygen available to the fire, second it pushes the fire into the rear of the body and under the steel roof area, third it pushes the fire and heat away from hydraulics and air lines. All this buys time to find the nearest best place to push the load off. In my case the best I could find was a wide spot in a side road that was as far as possible from other structures, cars etc. I would have loved a big open parking lot, but nothing of the sort was available in the short window I had to work with. It took almost three hours to put out, the truck was fine. I just recently was assigned a brand new truck, a Mack that is CNG with roof tanks. We have other CNG trucks that have the tanks in the tailgate of the truck. I think the roof tanks are a safer bet.
Looking at the damage to the truck, it looks like it had the roof mounted tanks. Seems like either the casing was damaged or the pressure relief completely failed. Should have turned into a blow torch, not a projectile.
In Europe we have plastic plug in cng tanks. That plug melts at 200 celsius. Tanks have also over pressure valve 250 bar. Tank is filled to 200-220 bar.
We use a similar safety system here (though I don’t know about these particular tanks) but sometimes the plug doesn’t melt before an explosion happens or the tank is compromised and the explosion is a secondary side effect.
In America we only put plastic in our water bottles, you know, to sterilize and depopulate.
That was the plug he said will not melt when you cool it with water. Even in India, they would use safety plugs on stuff like this. The issue is how it fails in the wild, not how it fails in the engineers mind
@@ToxiCom-777 call it as it is
CNG busses in Europe are known to kablooey. One in Stockholm hit a height sign before entering a tunnel. Wham! 💥🔥
Goes to show how safe diesel fuel is. Diesel will only burn, it's not in a pressure tank.
And it's hard to make Diesel burn, contrary to gasoline!
In a fire situation though you have both heat and as the fuel expands compression. A diesel tank can become a firebomb. Diesel doesn’t light very well cold, but at a couple hundred degrees it burns pretty violently.
Yeah we drive new CNG dump truck rigs. The trucks that the new cng rigs replaced were on the road for over 10 years and were build like tanks. They were cat 13, cat 15 diesel with 10 speed manuals. These new cng trucks are heavier and have Allison 4000 automatic transmission that can’t pull worth a dime. The companies are going this route because of the environmental cutbacks and it’s all political.
If there was only some proven fuel source that didn't require such high pressures and was relatively inert at normal pressures...
Gasoline, diesel, and alcohol.
The Synthetic fuel that burns in petrol and diesel engines, used in the Porsche racing series.
@@cherryjuice9946diesel. Gasoline and alcohol are to volatile.
There is. Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
Why I kept my fuel oil heater. That tank sits ( legally)right next to home. The propane guy could only find one place on my lot that he would have been able to legally place a propane tank.
Diesel, "how do you like me now??????"
Thanks for sharing pictures of the aftermath of that garbage truck explosion. Other videos I've seen other people haven't
I have a solution to this problem. Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel.
Is not bad. I started working on this cng garbage trucks about 15 years ago and the fires are rare. Again they been running for over 15 years how many people have they killed.
TOTALLY AGREE!!
Diesel also runs the risks of explosion, it's a trait inherent to combustion vehicles.
@ThatUntitledPublisher diesel & Gasoline burn more explode less. You failed basic science didn't you
@ThatUntitledPublisher Wrong. Diesel doesn't explode.
I live in the area, I’m so glad to see you covering this. Thank you
I drove a semi tractor that was CNG and Diesel for a very short time.
Fully loaded at 80,000 lb, the CNG couldn't provide the torque needed for hill climbs, so it would automatically switch to diesel with no warning to me. The shift RPMs were considerably between the two fuels, thus causing a great deal of frustration and not a few dangerous moments when my speed decreased quickly.
I was hauling a pressurized load of sugar in a pneumatic bulk tanker which only made the whole trip more exciting.
Knowing there was a CNG tank directly behind my head while I moved what was essentially a bomb on the roadways made me question my life choices.
Once was enough. CNGs and EVs are too inherently unstable in an accident. We like to think our tech is "there". But it isn't and I'm not going to be a Beta tester for that tech.
EVs unstable? They're currently the most stable vehicles on the roadway since most of their weight is below the centerline and evenly distributed throughout the vehicle's frame.
The *BATTERIES* aren't exactly stable depending on the amount of damage they sustain, though.
At first I thought there should be a system for venting thje gas to negate the possibility of explosion. Then I saw what the venting of CNG looks like. Why sideways?
Q: Why sideways? A: hey, we gotta make epic blowtorches out of something...?😉
Now i'm wondering how that would go in an urban environment
Great explanation of factors and differences related to these alternative fuels.
I agree that new tecnological solutions must be found to reduce the potential catastrophic failures seen in these tanks.
I also agree with your assessments of litium-ion batteries of all sizes.
This time of major transition in technology related to transportation is significantly different than the transition from animal powered to fossil fuel powered vehicles, that's for sure.
Unfortunately, emergency services personell are the ones put at the greatest risk in the case of an incident involving this new techhnology.
Your channel is a great source of sound information and opportunities to learn and expand the search for new solutions. Thank you.
In my career, like thousands of others, this is a common fire call. This needs to be an eye-opener. Keep up the good work you do!
I realize this is a CNG issue, but you mentioned it may have been caused by an improperly disposed lithium ion battery. What is the best way to dispose of lithium batteries, of all common types, including laptop replacement batteries, phone replacement batteries, ebike batteries, lithium motorcycle batteries, calculator batteries, and common aa-cell, d-cell batteries? What is the best place to google this disposal info? If fees are involved with consumer disposal, I worry the proper disposal methods may often not be followed and deposit-return refunds may need to be added when selling the new battery to incentivize proper recycling.
There are a lot of issues around the disposal of lithium-ion batteries. I'm working with a recycler to create content around that topic for the future.
@@StacheDTrainingI take my batteries to the local transfer station where the trash company runs a household hazmat collection program. How they package them and ship them I have no idea.
There is. Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
There really isn't any common place to dispose of them and of you find one it costs more than the device the battery came in. 😂
in germany we got recyling centers that deal with these questions... if you are lucky they got a phamplet lying around that lists what they want you to put into which bin... usually there are two around (one run by the town and on run by the county)... in addition there are the trashcans they collect with garbage-trucks these got a flyer with what you are not supposed to throw in there... been living in two different countys the last 10 years (plus insight into this at my folks home) so plenty of options to choose from (since about 60% of the trash you want to get rid of has DIFFERENT solutions in all these listings) i usually only care with batteries and spraycans to follow their wishes (for batteries they most got a special bin to collect em in but different wishes what kind of battery you can dispose there... for example any battery permanently installed in a divice you have to bring to a store that sells that kind of divice (that will refuse to take in divices of brands they do not sell )
tldr: if you skipped to this line you are the kind of person that would toss em into the normal garbage bin and burn down a garbage truck on occation
Thanks for the clear concise explanation from an expert! I saw this earlier on another video but didn't know what really happened.
Great video Patrick, keep up the good work.
This information is really important for us to know, thank you for this channel.
How do you avoid putting water on the PRD valve when the whole vehicle is on fire? (I'm not a firefighter, just an engineer.)
Step 1, know it's there. It can be difficult to avoid.
Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
Evacuate the area and wait.
Same technique for a burning load of Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil Mix. (Another common road transport load in areas where mining happens). You just need to find all the parts in a half mile an hour later after it detonates.
Tyre fires are a common cause of heavy vehicle fires too (caused by hot brakes).
Overwrapped cylinders BURN…
@allangibson8494 😲 I thought you werent supposed to put the FO with the AN until you had it it the hole in the ground? Yeah, yeah diesel spill and all.
I've looked at quite a few CNG vehicles and the all have one thing in common and thats the 3,600 psi labels.
What's wrong with diesel vehicles? These alternatives are insane
The cylinder, It's not fiberglass, it is carbon fibre composite.
Thanks!
You're welcome! Thanks!
When I first noticed the use of CNG garbage trucks in my town, I thought wow, that's a good idea. Now I'm a little concerned that safety regulations need to be updated.
I find it disconcerting that,less than 10 years ago CNG was heralded as THE SOLUTION TO SAVE THE PLANET! These days that is being downplayed by the hedge funds.
batteries,Batteries,BATTERIES!
Yes, lithium ion batteries involved here.
Imagine that.
Thank you sir for your continuing proffessional concern,
and reporting,on these catastrophes.
There is no safety regulation that can correct the hazard of driving around with a high pressure bomb on a truck!
Cng would be a better idea if the .gov wasn't opposed to fracking and all forms of petroleum energy sources.
Still a suboptimal fuel source.
There is. Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
@@randomidiot8142 I don't understand what government regulations on fracking, etc., have to do with the viability of CNG (or any petroleum based chemical) as a fuel source.
My friend is a garbage truck driver and crew person in the UK and they are being driven mad by fires caused by vape batteries - they having 1 to 3 fires a week now due to them - The response for years now has been to eject the load onto the roadway when a fire is found to be happening - it both help the firefighters fight the fire and it save the garbage truck from being damaged
No matter how much we think we progress, we always forget about history. Im the 1950's we started using butane instead of diesel because of the huge power difference in heavy trucks. 3 guesses why we stopped doing that
Danger, danger, danger?
An alternative to CNG is LPG which isn't stored in highly pressurized tanks. It just has the habit to sink to the lowest point and either make you fall unconcious and die or catch fire.
You must have a high benchmark for "high pressure". LPG/Propane is stored under pressure and will explode in a situation like the truck in the video. Search "BLEVE" to see what LPG/Propane tanks are capable of.
LPG tanks can go up to over 300psi .
cng is used because of price
Look up “BLEVE”. Boiling Liquid Expanding Gas Explosion. 30 yard fireballs are common.
Great video, Im feeling very very lucky , for decades Ive worked with those exact tanks that exploded , the safety videos showed a far different scenario showing how they would just blether out and never explode in a fire like these did...
Video shows lads not wearing PPG in full. Helmets, bunker-gear and gloves are a must.
PPE. PPG is a paint brand. LOL
Boosting for the algorithm 🙌 Love your work, keep it up! 🌻🐝
Much love from Houston. Please bring awareness to EMS and fire fighter wages in Houston they need to get paid more.
I drove a cng garbage truck for 15 years , the problem is not the cng , the problem is people throwing items like batteries or chemicals or even hot ash in the trash. For the number of cng trucks on the road , incidents like this are rare. So everyone take a deep breath and calm down.
Thank you! I wondered what had happened! Wow!
The tanks are filament wound carbon fiber tanks. Carbon fiber matrix has a higher modulus making the tanks lighter & able to hold higher pressures. These tanks also have a fixed lifespan. All too often that is ignored & the result is a failure of the tank integrity. "Rapid unscheduled disassembly"= 'explosion' to us lay persons.
Because of the risk of fire is it appropriate that these trucks run on gas? If it was a diesel it would not have exploded
How about a manual release that vents the tank through a vertical stack? Alternatively a pressure activated dump valve that doesn’t rely on heat? Either way a vertical vent pipe would be a good way to avoid anyone nearby getting toasted.
That is a good idea. If fire crews could trigger a release after quickly clearing the area, it could be safer to have a massive torch fire into the air vs. an exploding tank. I have heard of airplanes having an option to dump fuel while flying, since it is safer to let it dissipate into the air than to land with extra fuel on board when doing an emergency landing.
Education is a wonderful thing 😊 Stupid is as stupid does😮
Red Seal Automotive Service Technician & Power Engineer 5th class here. Based on what i see here, a few thoughts:
1. No way is this the fault of First Responders, nor SHOULD they be dumped on with this. How the hell should you lot be expected to know whats in the fuel system??
2. When are we going to learn carbon fibre pressure vessels arent particularly a good idea? Clearly, whomever designs these tanks are cheaping out; not building the tanks robust enough nor any proper reliable vent off system. These need to go back to the drawing board.
3. As a society we need to get off this ridiculous "green" kick and recognize that for some applications, such as garbage trucks, staying with simple, reliable diesel engines are *vastly* safer than LNG, CNG, or Li-Ion battery packs. We need to recognize the unique risks of garbage trucks, that they may very well catch fire due to propagating Li-Ion tech, & that loss of truck should be expected - and not have catastrophic results.
Good luck out there lads & ladies. Government stupidity once again makes First Responders - and the general public! - in particular see even more risk than strictly necessary; all for "the emissions" nonsense.
0:24 - "ladies and gentlemen as we reach the mid-point of the Tour, if you look to your right you can see a loving CNG Mother giving birth to her Fiery Trash Baby..." (best Safari Guide voice)
the key to resolving this is battery pickups as part of regular pickups... you need a garbage truck to pick up trash... they'd only need a pickup truck like an f350 with a dump bed to pick up batteries for an entire town. you want people to recycle make it easier to actually do it.
As preventing a tank explosion for cng, I wonder if they put a lever or button in or around the cab that the cab that the driver can manually vent the tanks once a they see signs of a fire. Since CNG rises from what I understand, it should not present a large hazard that way they may be able to dump the tank before the fire gets to it in some situation. Just a thought anyway
So the load caught fire and the heat therefrom blew up the CNG tank?
pretty much. the tanks were relieving pressure until they started spraying them with water
A one time use, eutectic alloy plug or valve would allow the vent to operate regardless. Its used throughout the world in contactors/relays. and various disconnects related to thermal load.
Eutectics melt at a consistent temp then reform wen temp drops. But if you used a eutectic plug, it would melt to liquid, then be ejected by the pressurized media. (the gasses) leaving it permanently open to vent and discharge contents in a controlled manner. Volume of discharge is easily limited by cross section of output discharge tube inner circumference.
Good information!
The new garbage trucks in my area have the CNG tanks on the roof. I guess that may help keep the firefighting water off the tanks. Hopefully there isn't a massove rainstorm when one of these catches fire.
Lithium batteries: The Chinese gift that keeps on going boom.
Chinese are copying Elon.
Are you blind and deaf?
It was CNG 🤔
Improperly disposed batteries were the cause of the fire@@andrewbradley4261
I think they're saying that there were lithium batteries in the trash that caught on fire and then the rest happened.
May God Be With You All First Responders! 🙏
Has this ever happened with Diesel or Gasoline trucks?
Great explanation, like physics of elephant hanging from cliff by tail ... but if the gas explodes first but does not ignite, what ends up burning seconds later? Not the gas, so then what?
Have they determined that the Blast injuries will be non life threatening? The IED blasts we had in Afghanistan were obviously larger than this but we learnt alot about Blast injuries in the years we were there.
If you have a chance look into Schwan's truck explosions. With the company all but gone there is hopefully going to be a lot of old footage available about just how much LNG each of the long range truck carried and how big a bomb they were.
CNG, LNG, and LPG
there are autos out there with all 3 fuel systems.
Liquid Natural gas, is like oxygen when turned to a liquid, it requires man made refrigeration to make it and maintain it, without a over pressure event.
Thus why compressed Natural gas fuel systems are made, no risk of venting when it sits for days in a vehicle.
3,600psi is the norm, for full CNG tanks.
.
Propane or LPG is way lower pressures, emergency relief valves are a little over 300 psi, in my experience. Normal operation pressure is directly related to atmosphere temperature.
Negative -40F is basically 0 pressure, a hot desert day is about the same as a air compressor tank at 150psi~
But still after it vents most of the fuel, it must be cooled or it definitely goes boom.
0.01c
so why are we using Compressed Natural Gas for vehicles that might be prone to fires?
The problem with PRVs isn't spraying water "preventing" them from operating: the valves are still working fine, pressure just isn't getting to threshold. It is the uneven cooling of the tanks from spraying water from only one side that keeps the pressure below threshold as the other side is being cooked to failure.
I can think of at least two options. The first one is to simply make the tank double-walled like a thermos so spraying water or fire on the outer shell doesn't affect internal temperature and pressure anywhere near as much. The other far more complicated one would be to use a handful of wax motors to pop a burst disc by driving needles into it when any of them gets too hot.
I'm sorry, why not use diesel engines?
CNG burns in engines with MUCH less pollutants than diesel. It’s a much cleaner fuel.
CNG is cheaper, burns cleaner, has less emissions components, and the engine oil stays very clean due to how clean CNG burns.
@@user-ln7of9gs4s it's also less energy dense and you need more of it. It's great for relatively low powered vehicles like forklifts, not sure it's the best idea for a 350-400hp application.
@@user-ln7of9gs4swell this one certainly had plenty of emissions.
Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
We as the drive face the same dangers
Someone probably got some huge tax break if they went to alternative fuel. I would never own one or drive one.
LPG cars are not permitted to travel on the Eurotunnel shuttle service trains.
A job I use to work at would throw electronics into our compactor, I noticed multiple times, capacitors exploding inside the compactor, only a matter of time until they throw lithium batteries inside.
Yikes!
I lived in the US (MA) for 6 years and when I asked people if they had a place to dispose batteries they'd give me a "what are you talking about" look.
In my country I can take my batteries to a mall or to my workplace where they collect those batteries and a company comes to pick it up.
Where can I find the exact alarm sound that he plays at the very start of his vids?
2:07 They say it was because of lithium batteries. Amazing how the truck was totally destroyed and the lead acid batteries kept the lights on.
The Groot facility that this truck came from is located right next to the school bus facility that I retired from there's only going to be more of these as Groot has made its entire fleet CNG.
Just a little extra context for CNG blasts not being BLEVEs, the typical standard for CNG fuel system pressure is 3,000-3,600 psi. That's more than a welding cylinder
Other countries/regions use CNG much more widely in cars. There are a ton of security camera videos where the CNG tank mechanically fail from fatigue, usually during filling.
_it's the same as a hand grenade / car bomb_
No fire needed. just the pressure is enough to make the trunk of a car peel open like that garbage truck
So this blast might have just been the tank failing from mechanically burning/melting and never actually went _over_ pressure
Oh, also, when they do fail like that... it could turn into a fuel air explosive depending on when it ignights. a large vapor cloud forming, hitting stoich and detonating in less than a second
Who would have thought it would be a bad idea to compress natural gas to 250 bar (that's 3,600 PSI).
It isn't a bad idea. It is a very useful idea. We store, use, and transport, many gasses at high pressure. Bottles of welding gases can be quite dangerous as well. Even water under high pressure and volume is dangerous and eventually something will go wrong. The question is, how often does it go wrong? EV cars or lithium batter banks catching fire seems to be happening a lot for the small number of them in use. How many CNG tank explosions have you heard of? High voltage DC power was quite dangerous, but it was good enough to start to supply it to the public, but they figured out that AC is better and safer......still not at all without dangers and deaths. I'm not against EVs or compressed gas, but am against mandates, and I do think we need to have ways to deal with failures and make them safer. Even inert gas in a compressed bottle can be lethal. My neighbor had some of the first CNG school busses, as head of transportation for Colton school district in SoCal. If there are a bunch of failures with CNG, then I haven't heard about it, unlike lithium battery fires. I'm a realist and like to know the details rather than just believing the narrative or stats that don't paint an accurate picture.
Don't worry - many US municipalities are planning to replace LPG and CNG gas garbage trucks with BEV ones
So , my garbage truck is a ticking time boom just waiting to happen? Allied waste here in Ohio is always bragging about their total conversion of their fleet of trucks but never a mention of the dangers associated with their vehicles! 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
No... Every bus on the road uses cng. Same with trash trucks.
This is an extremely rare case. I mean how many times does your phone in your pocket burst into flames because of the lithium ion polymer battery in it?
Your phone can just burst into flames if it wants to. Anything with a battery in it because you do that.
Just keep living your life
@@samholdsworth420Less than 10% of busses are CNG, even less for garbage trucks. More than half the states do not have the infrastructure to fill CNG vehicles.
California is not representative of the entire country.
That's how I felt when I realized I bought a new refrigerator with propane as the coolant (to save the environment ofcourse 🙄) and now I'll never know if it's gona blow while I'm in the kitchen cooking etc. Would have never bought it had I been aware but it looks like they're all made that way nowadays. Better to get an older refurbished fridge imo.
And Diesel fuel still doesn’t explode
These explosions are a small price to pay for a clean environment
What an ignorant comment. REALLY??? Would you say the same thing if your child, husband, wife, brother, sister, mom, dad...were killed in one of these explosions???
Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
@@gtbproductions1 my family would be driving a diesel and not worrying about blowing up
Or saving the planet
@@gtbproductions1 it is an ignorant comment
But that’s the way environmentalists think
They are the ones forcing this crap on the rest of society
Know why we don't use diesel fuel anymore, because some of your elliets don't like the smoke and the smell! 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
A question I have is why was the firefighter not wearing proper PPE (no helmet) right near the truck ? He should have been behind a fire truck while getting his SCBA on.
Just wait 'til we have a few million hydrogen-powered cars on the road. Those systems run at either 5000 or 10,000 psi.
Always wondered how big the boom would be from one of those ' environmental friendly " trucks.
Those tanks look like the ones used for water softeners. I thought they would be made of stainless steel?
The steel tanks are extremely heavy.
Nyc garbage trucks cng still?
Many fires in nyc from Lithium batteries chargers .
A huge issue.
This should NOT be happening at all! It is a national, indeed an international, emergency!
I understand what a blevie is for liquid propane. How is cooling a cng cylinder bad? I can see why it may not be helpful. Doesn't cooling still relieve some pressure from building up?
Maybe one thought is if you are directly hitting the relief valve, then the relief valve is not sensing the true temperature of the vessel. I could see that, causing it to exceed safe pressure.
I wonder if it would be worth using ballistic cloth in turnout coats? It might be possible to gets some light shrapnel protection (with little if any additional weight) would be useful for a fair number of risks.
How does it react to heat?
@kcgunesq I suspect some do better than others. As long as it doesn't degrade under conditions that won't force replacement anyway then it should be good enough.
Why are there not over pressure valves on these tanks?
it did have them and they were working until they starting spraying them with water
Leaving aside the known hazards of lithium ion batteries there is also a big hazard associated with driving around in a vehicle with a tank of methane pressurized to 2000 PSI!
Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
3300 psi or 3600 psi are the fill pressures that I've seen in the gas industry. And the tanks are engineered for burst pressures much higher than that. If a tank gets to burst pressure, one or more other errors were made first. And let's not forget CNG has much less energy density than propane, and we accept propane on much less stringently engineered uses (looking at you, RVs and food trucks).
@@davidfirth1 In which gas industry, I ask because in the industrial gas industry maximum fill pressure is usually 2400 PSI and that lack of energy density you mentioned is the reason they are trying to use such high pressures though that is a fruitless enterprise. Because of Boyle's Law after 3000 PSI you no longer gain that much volume per additional pressure unit!
@ Natural gas. My recollection is our first use of CNG in our own passenger car fleet was 3300 psi and the current truck usually is 3600 psi. But I don't work directly with fill units and it has been a long time since I drove one.
Due to lithium batteries maybe natural gas trucks are not a good idea.....
We’re df are we supposed to throw the batteries 🔋.❕❔
This is another example of why we need to use alternative extinguishing agents to suppress alternative fuels that burn to the point of explosion. Using a Compressed Air Foam application to suppress burning refuse works better than plain water fire stream applications because it penetrates deeper into the seat of the fire due to CAFs chemical and physical properties that plain water doesn’t have.
Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
Another Win for traditional Gas & Diesel vehicles... LPG,EV,CNG all create LARGE VIOLENT explosions, even a traditional ICE fire doesn't create massive explosions like the "green" alternatives... big differences...
LPG stands for Liquified PETROLEUM Gas. It can be Butane, Propane, any PETROLEUM gas.
pretty sure that is carbon fiber similar but different
That BS needs to be outlawed.
Don't the CNG tanks have large enough relief valves? I understand now i watched further into the video.
Is this the guy who makes all the funny videos?
Your looking for this guy: ruclips.net/user/shorts6Z5chsSU2K8?si=YaRZesEtNz4tMWLT
Is this the same principles used for train cars??
Dang those tanks fired off like a cannon! I nearly pissed myself here.
Home Depot in my area sells all sorts of li batteries like millwakie desalt and Makita with absolutely no disposable way to dispose of them properly. So the end up in the regular trash. Jmtc
They should have a drop-off bin right outside of the entrance. I grabbed some that were in the bin and reused them.
yeah my local HD's (3) have small bins out front.
Since in many countries vaping devices and other things like that are sold as single-use and disposable, while containing LiPo cells, this trend will continue for a long time.
That tank looks more like CFRP than fiberglass, tho that could just the charring
Need a Big Steel Tank like a Propane tank to put the CNG Tank inside of.. Or need a valve that will dump CNG when it senses heat.
I randomly brought this up vs "experts" one video and said just this. They stated per their observation the emergency valve is defective. They're "experts" solely cause they are stringers in LA.
It was that LA video what caused me to learn more about CNG tanks. Watch some long ass training videos, this channel.
My background is Law Enforcement and Automotive Repair Technician.
I constructively said they errored about CNG emergency relief valve. LA Metro bus on fire.
Then attack me for being wrong, stupid, with 0% experience responding to, seeing in person, speaks with LAFD PIO, Chiefs, such CNG fire.
Now watching this video causing me to have an 💡
-Put temperature sensors in the box of trash truck.
-temperature sensors on tanks
-Come up with a tank cooling system, make tanks vacuum insulated like Yeti mug.
-Make a device that can manually open relief valves via cab, externally, remotely.
Use a Automotive seat belt tensioner with cable or rod to added valve. You can activate via drone, bomb robot, create CNG Safety Management System that can auto activate the added valves based on data from probes and sensors added to truck. My thought too have multiple temp probes that are able to probe the middle/core of that trash section, advanced warning to drump trash, release CNG tanks, etc before a runaway.
Departments begin purchasing armored vehicles like Bearcat, Hummvees or similar armored/military vehicles with roof armored turrets. Smaller armored vehicles tow a water trailer and pump attaching to vehicle.
Sorry for ramble
While the fire by whatever source started the chain of events, it seems clear that the fire alone is not the problem. The lack of safety mechanisms to relief over pressure due to excessive heat seems very obvious.
You answered my question about the CNG tanks having PRV's. Looks like a re-design is in order to let them vent earlier. Maybe this was a mixed BLEVE and CNG explosion, because by the time the PRV would activate, the tank pressure rose due to heating from the fire, causing the BLEVE to also release the CNG(??) Not sure if that can happen, but wanted to throw the idea out there.
Forget the CNG and go back to diesel fuel. Much safer
@@gtbproductions1 The CNG by itself isn't a big problem. But there was a chain of causation here that caused a big problem. Diesel is dirtier, including soot particles which humans don't need in their lungs.
@@markh.6687Don't look a diesel through a microscope, look at is through a telescope. In the BIG picture of things, you have a diesel garbage truck coming around once a week and spends...2 minutes in front of your home. Chances are you are not even home. The carbon footprint on these trucks is so small, they wont even register on a scale.
CNG is a GAS under very high pressure. It is not a liquid. A BLEVE only occurs with highly pressurized LIQUIDS such as Propane (LPG)
@@gtbproductions1 How many times did you spam this message?
Top 3 garbage truck fire causes in my area are currently hot coals, lithium batteries, and still lit cigarettes