Thats what ive been saying since the begining of this whole EV thing, what about those parking garages under apartments or skyscrapers downtown, or tunnels. Because the fix is "let it burn out" well thats not an option in a multi billion dollar tunnel. They will become too expensive to insure and be financially banned, its just a question of time.
@@francisphillipeck4272 That thought crossed my mind too mate , i remember watching a documentary some years ago about a fire in a long tunnel , and the smoke volume was absolutely huge , and if i remember correctly many lives where lost . Imagine in the future should electric battery cars become the prominent type of vehicle , if there is a big pile up in a tunnel with the tunnel blocked and a whole bunch of electric cars on fire in thermal runaway , we have seen how quickly batteries burn and smoke madly , imagine if the fire spreads to 10 or 20 or 30 cars in a confined tunnel , its a pretty fair bet the death toll will be terrible . It seems to me the whole battery device /vehicle creates way more problems for the general public than it actually solves .
And that is why EV's are already being banned in certain parts of the world in Parking Garages, Tunnels, on Trains, Ferry Boats, etc. Well, EV boys don't want to hear anything negative. LOL
Look up the “ new ebike catches fire in Maine” it was local to me but just happen to see it on u tube first shit goes up fast dude stands over it trying to blow it out as it plumes smoke
I would store and charge the battery in a metal cabinet. I store my drone batteries at no more than 80% state of charge. They less likely to thermal runaway.
I looked for the lithium battery recycling at my local landfill today and it is a single wood pallet sitting on the ground between the plastic recycling container and the electronic recycling container. 😳 We had a blizzard yesterday and, of course, everything including those batteries got wet. Today it was sunny and warm so they were exposed to direct sun. Darwin Award.
When seeing other videos about that incident with batteries transported in large 55 Gal. drums, it was almost obvious these would be crushed under their own weight. Why not transport them in Euroboxes on pallette? They are plastic, so would also contain leaking fluids, and can be stacked.
I remember the old enemy, the CFC ruining the Ozone layer...these people moved on with a better sheme of bottomless income of using climate change to extort people
Still no standard to contain the toxic water run-off. It's not politically correct for the EPA to get involved with the technology that's preventing climate change.
There's a very funny Dudley Do Right cartoon about Stokey the Bear starting fires and after he starts the Chicago fire, Dudley says "Now remember Mrs. O'Leary, we'll blame it all on the cow." You can find it on RUclips.
There are probably less Teslas then other types of electric cars. The whole electric push is really frustrating because places like CA already can’t handle the loads they have and they are adding more which is really dumb.
I don't know how you can begin to safely store these things in NYC. So many places there is just NOWHERE to safely put them. In the burbs or rural areas you can just have a little shed, but you can't do that in a dense urban area. I can see landlords banning any e-mobility device.
@@kevinking9783If a bicycle becomes popular they will figure a way to ban them. Maybe because if you overcharge the tires they will explode. Or working up a sweat would be considered high emissions.
Because it goes against the collective government of the worlds narrative , “we must get to net zero regardless of the negative impacts, even if it is reducing the number of people on the planet todo so”
As he stated, we are up to 5 fatalities this year so far, but well over 200 fires. As you can see in this video, how quickly they go from smoke to violent explosion to and extremely HOT violent fire. I've heard people say, 'Well, if I see it smoking, I'll just get it outside quickly...' NO, do NOT touch it, don't even go near it. It's a matter of seconds before it goes from smoke to explosion. You do NOT have time. And also, as he said, do NOT leave them near your only means of egress.
Smoke and fire are not the only danger with E bikes. I've rode motorcycles all my life, some sixty years of riding and these Ebikes are quite truthfully a motorcycle. The big problem, lack of proper training . This is sadly going to start showing up in injuries and death. And most of them will be children. Motorcyle training is available.
Yes. We need to stop using the misleading term *_motorized bicycle._* 1. *_All_* motorcycles are bicycles (yes, true, look it up). 2. *_Any_* bicycle with a motor *_is a motorcycle._*
I have to dodge E bikes at night "Jay walking" at 30mph with no road going gear like reflectors. Or them running down sidewalks at 30mph, or going counterflow, or running red lights stop signs at speed. When you have 500~800w motor on a bicycle its pretty quick, and when you take the governor off they go quicker.
Nice because of people not understanding e battery’s is the real problem nothing to do with normal use . It’s to do with people that don’t understand the power contained in a lithium battery and the fact most of you run the battery at its thermal limit most of the time. Over discharge is the main reason these batteries go into thermal runaway. I have many lithium battery’s and never had a single issue with any because I treat lithium with the respect it deserves
@davidmcnamara8458 That by NO means guarantees you anything. Many, many Li-on fires have happened where no such overheating was a factor. Don’t delude yourself.
@ what ever bro . Most fires have been caused because people have damaged the battery during use . Do you understand lower battery voltage causes thermal runaway in some batteries? So I have a valid point. Non of my battery’s have ever gone in to a thermal overload. No delusions here. I think others have a delusional vision that they know everything! . What a joke pootube really is
Fire engineer here. I work at the fire brigade. In a fire like this, most of the "off gas" from a fire like this comes from other burning materials than the batteries. Although the probability is low, batteries can go into thermal runaway and ignite other things. Batteries should be stored safely.
Another concern I see is lithium batteries in RVs, apparently their performance is inhibited by cold temperatures, so people are installing them inside the RV where it is warmer, most commonly under the bed!
@@billysolhurok5542a fire blanket? Get with the times. Yeh battery fires are different. What are you trying to argue? What point are you trying to prove? Adapt, over come or go home.
There are lots of laws and regulations for storing any kind of battery. These people obviously broke those laws and people died. I bet the store owners or whoever is at fault is going to prison for life, if they’re not already there
I worked around the corner from one that went up in Flames at the earlier part of last year I can honestly say it was bad there was runoff water running right by our shop down the street and the fire had reignited multiple times during the course of the next week's the inherent dangers of these batteries being stored inside are real if you want to research it it was the Laguna Hills California e-bike shop fire around March 2023
Good grief! Hard to imagine a more toxic component.....of course the volume of carbon monoxide and hydrogen generated would do more damage if iignited.....(and after watching this I realize that the carbon monoxide levels can be rapidly lethal)
@stevengill1736 the reactivity of the HF was something I wasn't thinking of before he mentioned it. Yea, what's the LEL of CO? Edit: 12.5% / 125000 ppm. 10x what was mentioned.
Given the number of everyday things people depend on today that wouldn't be possible or practical with anything with worse energy density than lithium, banning lithium batteries is likely impossible. Doubt many people would welcome 2lbs smartphones, 4lbs tablets, 10lbs laptops and cordless tools that weight twice as much for half the run-time using NiMH or SLA batteries. Next best thing would be mandating that all new devices use LFP batteries which are ~4X less likely to have catastrophic failure and are much less energetic when they do at least until something even better is discovered and becomes economically viable.
Republicans would like to cut regulations until there is hardly any left and now they will control all 3 branches of government?! We will be learning the hard way all over again why that is such a bad idea?! 🙄
I have a self built ebike, I take a lot of precautions with my batteries. One big one I have to wonder, is the charge rate creating unseen damage to cells. High charge rates produce a lot of heat, you can cool them down but the heat generation is where you will likely see damage to cells. I refuse to charge over 0.1-0.25c( or 10-25% charge rate ~2a charger on 20ah battery), however my batteries advertised 10a max charge(a 0.5c rate of charge); I won't tempt fate for the 2 hr convenience charge. Super chargers are a whole other issue, if you're charging at double+ your capacity you will create heat and damage, which could add up to a thermal event.
Do your neighbours know you're a self-build EV enthusiast? Do they approve? From what I've seen EVERY self-build techie considers himself to be an expert in the field, whilst every other guy is (of course) a dabbling amateur. Does your activity have an impact on your home insurance? Here in the UK there are countless so-called 'experts' souping-up and customising e-bikes and e-scooters; they're loaded with batteries and home-designed speed controllers which guarantee extreme performance [all unregulated and entirely illegal, but nobody seems to care]. The ultra-speed e-scooters are popular with neighbourhood drug dealers, who use them to evade the cops. I don't care what people get up to in their own homes, but I do care when their mucking about puts my life in danger. How many battery packs has Expert A got stashed away in cupboards? Where did he get them from? What state are they in? Were they salvaged from wrecked cars, bikes and scooters? How many of the cells are damaged and unstable? How safe are his homemade chargers? Stealing domestic utilities - water, electricity - by bypassing the meters is still a popular crime here in Britain, but when things go wrong, only the thief suffers. He gets zapped or flooded; no biggie. Tampering with the domestic gas supply is far more heinous because one meddler trying to bypass his meter could cause a major gas leak and low up an entire street of houses. The new wave of lithium e-bike and e-scooter experimenters seems no less worrying to me.
@EleanorPeterson wow, demonize your fellow humans much. I'm of the opinion you don't judge others if you don't know them. Respectfully, I'll do me, you do you. I will say, I am from the old school...I repair, I build, I design and I damn well don't take short cuts. This is the reason I stay away from society, I will do as I wish and if it has no impact on others, what business is it of theirs. Equating all ebike users as criminals, is the criminal act here. We need to learn to live and let live. I did my research, probably more than needed(nevermind being a trained electronics and computer technician). I still think the battery manufacturers neglected their due diligence in educating the masses before deploying these bundles of mini-bombs that do require a certain amount of care. Nevermind the super chargers for cars that charge waaay too fast for my liking, I'm fine with my 8-10 hr charge and keep an extra battery if I need more power for a day. Some of us are careful, cause you know my life is most important and it would really piss me off if I died cause I was a dumb ass. To finish this, mind your own dang business, live your own life, and a good ole 2 finger salute to you(if you don't get the reference...Up yer kilt!)
I live out in the country, but a dozen deaths in a year doesn’t make the news! E-bike are popular with my Amish neighbors, I will try to warn them to store outside.
Most fires that I watch from New York City, the fire fighters don’t wear their breathing apparatus so they are risking their lives for their lack of safety precautions. As a retired fire fighter I know jaw dangerous this practice is.
I could be wrong , but from working in the car trade years ago , you could on occasion see wiring melt from bad electrical connections , even dirty connections , because a bad connection creates a resistance which causes heat , just like the a bar radiator heater , the bars that glow red get hot due to high electrical resistance if they are connected even if everything is turned off . Another thing , if you have a battery with low charge and a battery with higher charge , they will try to equalise , so imagine you have been out on your scooter banging over pot holes , up and down gutters day in and day out exposing the battery pack to shocks , and your battery pack is composed of 40 battery cells , with a electrical connection to every cell , you come home with half a charged battery with one cell that has acquired a bad connection , even though you are now not riding and not charging , that one single cell with a poor electrical connection and building up some heat while trying to equalize the charge even though everything is turned off and you are cosy in bed . if ever you have had a flat battery in your conventional car and hooked up some cheap jumper leads with poorly connected alligator clips , as soon as you hit the starter and put some juice through them , they can get so hot they melt or catch fire . I suspect the temperature tolerance for the chemicals in an Ev car battery or EV scooter or bike may be quite low . Thats just my guesswork , and im happy to be proven wrong , but i do believe just because a battery pack is not actually being used , does not mean that chemical and electrical reactions are not happening even when dormant. I`d love for an electrical engineer to talk on this .
Hi stached.since watching your videos now after charging my bike battery is moved to an outside shed if that then catches fire I only lose my shed not my family's lives.thanks again for your videos.keep up your fantastic work.✌️🫶🙏🏴
The CO is very alarming... I'm not sure how the other gasses react with living persons, its probably not good, but that CO level could easily kill a large number of people rapidly, even if they fled as soon as the fire started, especially if it take more than a minute or two to get out of the building. After a high exposure it takes a very long time to get back to normal. Many people in and around these fires will suffer migranes and other symptoms for months. I am confused about the lead levels, almost all electronics are RoHS since the mid 2000s, and lead was removed from nearly everything.
The CO itself a serious concern, especially since many people will spend 1-2 minutes just trying to fight the fire before exiting. As for the lead levels, my guess would be that the overseas factories may not be following the regulations.
I lived above a parking garage in a metropolitan area... I was on the 4th floor, but couldn't imagine waking up and leaving the building with wife and kids under 3 minutes. We had several fires set in the basement garage from the terminally unhoused crowd, some were cooks, others I think lit a car interior on fire. It was a private garage. The batteries, though there were a lot of them were probably less in capacity than one vehicle in this example, if one or two cars would go off in a subterranean garage and the ventilation system wasn't adequate to keep the fumes from spreading up into the stairwells I fear we could have a few incidents where we loose a few families in their sleep. Or worse still, families trying to run down stairs. I typically don't like pointing out safety concerns for EVs or batteries in general, as nearly every other thing about then makes them inadequate for most people. I worked on large motive power batteries, those can be humbling, but the biggest risk came from handling the batteries due to their shear weight. If one exploded next to you, you might get some debris tossed at you and loose some hearing, bit you'll likely live to talk about it. The easiest example to what goes on is when lightning strikes a tree and boils all the water instantly, the same thing happens to the lead acid, all the water boils off instantly, and making a huge pressure spike.
As an electrical enginerd I can tell you there is a reason this didnt happen in Korea town but did in China town. Cell quality matters and samsung/panasonic cells are your best bet. Never heard of name brand lithium cells having a thermal event just sitting unless in extreme heat. I store mine in a crate filled with sand retained in a rectangle by thin wood & a 5 gal bucket of sand next to it.
Due to the expense of these bikes, storing inside to prevent theft, vandalism, damage from weather all are normal things to do, but could be unknowingly deadly to the people around them in the event of a fire, frightening thought.
HF discussions will get the posts taken Down or throttled. Threshold limit values for death are being lowered greatly by hygienists to a very small exposure for death, and internal organ damage. I appreciate all you do to inform. HF is tough to get the word out. Dam algorithm.
@@stevengill1736HF forms Hydrofluoric Acid inside your body, and only a small amount kills. Also it can dissolve through the skin and kill too. It’s among the most lethal acids and chemicals ever known
My question to you is, if you had two 750w e bike batteries charging in you home, what type of cabinet or fireproof storage should I keep it in? looking for recommendations to increase safety of ownership.
How about the fact everyone has several Lithium batteries in their home? How many house fires have been started from those? What about the lithium batteries indicating Fire Exits? Seems this problem is only going to get worse and worse.
lithium batteries come in different chemistries…lithium iron phoshate are much safer, but aren’t used much in bike batteries, because of there size, and C rating. I have many homebuilt bikes…and utilize LiFePO4 cells in a custom frame. I never charge unattended…I pay close attention to each cell in the packs. I have bought complete ebike specific batteries, and noticed poor build quality, unsecured balance wires being pinched, and movement within the pack itself, which is very concerning. Vibration induced shorts within the pack, is possible, especially with a bike that is curbhopping, or bumpy trails, gravel roads, etc. Handle like you are carrying a box of grenades…cause they can bite you suddenly, and hard!
Can you recommend an exterior detection or warning system for homes where immediate neighbors have EVs? Can you discuss any other precautions or recommendations a homeowner could undertake? Thank you!
I charge my ebike outside, even though you can remove the battery for charging inside. All my cordless Milwaukee tools and torches are charged in the laundry on glass shelves surrounded by tiles. Even that isn't ideal, as one battery igniting, could set the ones next to it or above alight. Another solar installer said one of the Makita batteries caught fire. It's very rare, but it happens.
I wonder if the batteries responsible for the fire were lithium ion or lfp? lfp is much less flammable. It would be really great to know since most new bikes and scooters use lfp now.
If you start to think how many devices with li-ion batteries we have around us nowadays.... It is terrible. Just had a 2 200 mAh flashlight battery blow up on me, when I was taking it out of the flashlight to check the type. Put it in a kettle with lid and took it out into the snow to cool. - Then both the battery and the - rather new - flashlight were taken to recycling.... Got lucky this time. But made me think that I'll have to reduce the number of those devices as much as possible.
While the smoke from batteries is nasty, i don't have any context here. How does the cell toxicity compare with, say, a polyester t-shirt burning? (Self ignition is a different topic.)
Its not just the charge but also the discharge. The high rate of discharge for an e-bike or EV causes a lot of heat and stress on the battery. These batteries swell when charged and shrink when discharged causing mechanical fatigue. Remember those exploding Samsung phones. The battery compartment was 0.5mm too small for the change in dimensions due to charge/discharge. In the cases of fire when the vehicle wasn't being charged, the fire started some time prior internally and grew slowly. Probably caused by the mechanical stress.
I can see insurance companies raising premiums if you store an e-bike indoors. Alberta, Canada has six plus months of very cold, so outdoors isn’t an option 🧐🤔 Many appliances have these batteries, why not stop manufacturing a faulty product, keep people safe and insurance rates low and NO MORE FIRES!
This grim news makes me relieved that a few years back I bought an Israeli NBC (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) gas mask off eBay. I keep it alongside my LifeVac home choking kit just in case.
Thank you for posting this video. It seems that firefighters are being tasked with dousing a lot of 'iffy c-junk' with otherwise potable water. The zeroth responders (absentee industrial operators) seem greedy in stocking and scarce in exercising bench safety. E-junk fires near residential buildings, whether in armpit Mississippi or upland Massachusetts, means that first responders may delay entering to search for potential victims. Metallic vapors linger. I think it doubtful to guarantee the content- or chemical response- of post-consumer electrolyte intended for market reentry. NASA may also have dealt with vaporized metal in crew spaces. Looks like absentee industrial 'negligence', a frightfully unnecessary exposure for first responders. Makes diesel fires look tame.
In Australia we've had multiple lithium battery fires, people have died others trapped...a Law must be passed that bans e bikes, e scooters, mobility aids and cars with lithium batteries in residential buildings...your most at risk of death and injury while your asleep if they explode in a room, hallway, garage the intensity of the fire will be extremely hazardous more than a normal fire as was pointed out, this should be enough factual, scientific information for change to be implemented
There are warning signs. Temperature control and monitoring are the best ways to prevent these types of incidents. There should be rules that regulate the storage of lithium ion batteries in strictly climate controlled environments. Provisioned with a set amount of space between batteries to thermally isolate them. Then temperature monitoring systems could be required in addition to smoke alarms. Or manufacturers could be required to build in temperature monitoring features into batteries. Eventually there could be a system developed that detects high temperature in the battery cells that will automatically alter the circuitry of the batter and release some kind of chemical agent.
What happened when two or three people in a family ride ebikes and store them in a shed that up beside the home. People living in apartments building. I seen bikes on their patio
Problem is that lithium batteries are used in just about every rechargable made today. Safe storage is unlikely. The lithium composition or even the type of electronic safeties on the cells, if any, do not need to be divulged to the end user who must decide on storage procedures.
these kinds of battery's just going run away for no apparent reason seems to me to be either contamination of the battery storage material or faulty construction of the battery in the first place both of which are manufacturer OC items. or the battery material is in fact inherently unstable or becoming unstable , which i consider a sign of contaminated battery storage materials.
One thing you didn't mention is damage.A dropped drill or jigsaw,the e-scooter fell over or bounced off a curb,a rock or debris flicked up under the wife's car on the road.All not so unheard of scenarios.All potentially battery damaging.
I wish he would give more complete information. He didn't name all the gases, and didn't mention cobalt at all, which makes the deadliest metallic gas by far
Unfortunately it takes time to realize there is a problem, then even more time to implement the regulations. I believe this particular shop had been fined before, but they kept operating illegally.
Q: Are we (going to) have to buy air in the near future ? A: if Total Recall 1990 and Ronny Cox/Vilos Cohaagen are anything to go by, survey says "YES".
solar decathalon in the 1990s. driver of the solar car is literally bolted into the car. couldn't get them out fast enough. 😢 this hazard has been known for decades.
Great info but I have to disagree. Thee is always signs that a pack is failing. The issue is no one is trained to look for them, test for them, or they are hidden in a way you cant even if you did know what to look for. The very first one is heat. The packs will always give off extra heat when charging and discharging. The reason most failures are happening when discharging is that is when the damage to the cells in the pack is creating the most heat. The failed cell has a huge internal resistance. Under load that resistance is turning the current into heat, which causes breakdown of the substrate which leads to gas. These gases are highly reactive and generate even more heat inside the cell. 18650's have vents and once a cell vents, its useless. Wrapped cells just expand but if you keep trying to use them they can catch fire too. All of these need proper Battery Management Systems (BMS) that can report on temps and cell charge and give warnings.
This is way too much responsibility for the average consumer. EV bikes are wonderful but apparently they are made without much compliance. This is going to be a real problem .
Question for you why you don’t hear about battery fires involving Toyota hybrids you never hear about that is it because Toyota battery pack are better built?
Probably because the risk of a fire is still relatively low compared to say a car accident. Many hazards in life can kill us, but if the frequency is low we often overlook the hazard.
Q: Still don't understand why they can't use lithium iron phosphate batteries...? A: fair admission, it's because they're both HEAVIER and LESS POWER DENSE than NMC, and as the Captain eludes they are unfortunately NOT the "Chemical Panacea" that they've been made out to be. no, the people promoting LFP this way are simply REACTING to the fact that they've "screwed up royally" by being DUPED into originally promoting NMC as the "cure-all" for solving Man's transportation when it isn't. yeah at this point in History, even the 5th Graders in the Elementary Schools are able to tell us how NMC is "not the DROID that we are looking for..." (best Sir Alec Guinness/Obi-Wan accent)
What will happen in the future when there are hundreds of EV's jammed up in a tunnel and one decides to go into thermal runaway?
Thats what ive been saying since the begining of this whole EV thing, what about those parking garages under apartments or skyscrapers downtown, or tunnels. Because the fix is "let it burn out" well thats not an option in a multi billion dollar tunnel. They will become too expensive to insure and be financially banned, its just a question of time.
We're all going to die!!!!!
C-c-c-combo!
@@francisphillipeck4272 That thought crossed my mind too mate , i remember watching a documentary some years ago about a fire in a long tunnel , and the smoke volume was absolutely huge , and if i remember correctly many lives where lost .
Imagine in the future should electric battery cars become the prominent type of vehicle , if there is a big pile up in a tunnel with the tunnel blocked and a whole bunch of electric cars on fire in thermal runaway , we have seen how quickly batteries burn and smoke madly , imagine if the fire spreads to 10 or 20 or 30 cars in a confined tunnel , its a pretty fair bet the death toll will be terrible .
It seems to me the whole battery device /vehicle creates way more problems for the general public than it actually solves .
And that is why EV's are already being banned in certain parts of the world in Parking Garages, Tunnels, on Trains, Ferry Boats, etc. Well, EV boys don't want to hear anything negative. LOL
I do have an e-bike, and I love it, but also very concerned about the fire risk and deadly smoke thanks to the education on this channel.
Look up the “ new ebike catches fire in Maine” it was local to me but just happen to see it on u tube first shit goes up fast dude stands over it trying to blow it out as it plumes smoke
I have a hi power emtb and 2 swappable battery packs. It scares me
I would store and charge the battery in a metal cabinet.
I store my drone batteries at no more than 80% state of charge. They less likely to thermal runaway.
I have a low power ebike.. should I worry since it's a small battery?
I have it in the living room.
@@dans9463 if you don't know if it has china trash knock off 18650s in it probably.
I looked for the lithium battery recycling at my local landfill today and it is a single wood pallet sitting on the ground between the plastic recycling container and the electronic recycling container. 😳 We had a blizzard yesterday and, of course, everything including those batteries got wet. Today it was sunny and warm so they were exposed to direct sun. Darwin Award.
When seeing other videos about that incident with batteries transported in large 55 Gal. drums, it was almost obvious these would be crushed under their own weight.
Why not transport them in Euroboxes on pallette? They are plastic, so would also contain leaking fluids, and can be stacked.
Isn't it time the EPA was put to work on preventing these actual pollution hazards rather than fighting with the weather?
YA THE CLIMATE CHANGE HOAX IS UNRAVELLING AND WE HAD ENOUGH
I remember the old enemy, the CFC ruining the Ozone layer...these people moved on with a better sheme of bottomless income of using climate change to extort people
Still no standard to contain the toxic water run-off. It's not politically correct for the EPA to get involved with the technology that's preventing climate change.
No one talks about the elephant in the room. What are forever chemcials......... hello!!!
Are you clueless
It's bad when you say HF gas isn't the major issue 😯
HF kills nerve cells and dissolves bone. Downplaying this acid will seriously change your life.
I worked with HF in the past. It's nasty!
The Chicago fire was started by a cow in a barn. The next big disaster could be a Tesla in a parking garage.
There's a very funny Dudley Do Right cartoon about Stokey the Bear starting fires and after he starts the Chicago fire, Dudley says "Now remember Mrs. O'Leary, we'll blame it all on the cow." You can find it on RUclips.
Yeah, and my daughter's apartment is floors above ground level charging cars, about 150 feet diagonally away. And the garage ramp angles up.
@@davidbaldwin1591buy her an emergency breathing apparatus. We used them during fires in the navy.
Methane?
There are probably less Teslas then other types of electric cars. The whole electric push is really frustrating because places like CA already can’t handle the loads they have and they are adding more which is really dumb.
Shouldn’t this testing have been done BEFORE the government mandated Lithium batteries?
When did the government ever mandate that lithium ion batteries are used for anything?
@@averyalexander2303... EPA tailpipe vehicle emissions rule for starters, locally.
Globally, there's Agenda 2030 / SDG7, etc.
@@averyalexander2303stop pretending to be dumb. We know you are, so stop defending the criminals.
Safe and effective
@@kradius2169 Where do the emissions regulations state that lithium ion batteries must be used?
Thank you Captain for this Public Safety Announcement!
I don't know how you can begin to safely store these things in NYC. So many places there is just NOWHERE to safely put them. In the burbs or rural areas you can just have a little shed, but you can't do that in a dense urban area. I can see landlords banning any e-mobility device.
gee.... does that mean people will have to actually go back to actually burning calories to ride a bike?
@@kevinking9783 The horror...
@@kevinking9783If a bicycle becomes popular they will figure a way to ban them. Maybe because if you overcharge the tires they will explode. Or working up a sweat would be considered high emissions.
Thank you so much. Your passion of making this info more widespread is helping save lives!
That guy who died 10 seconds into getting in the elevator was horrific. I don't trust those things at all.
Thermal run away, how many people actually know any of this. People store their bikes just inside the door ,especially in apartments…that’s scary.
Keep up the good work of getting the message out so folks are aware of the dangers. Knowledge is Power!
I just moved my sons battery out of the house to the shed, 16,000ppm CO, NO THANKS!
Evs got to Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RUclips ALGORITHM, WHY ARE YOU NOT PROMOTING THIS CHANNEL?
It puts a huge question mark over the safety of LiPo power which goes against the mainstream narrative, that's why.
Because it goes against the collective government of the worlds narrative , “we must get to net zero regardless of the negative impacts, even if it is reducing the number of people on the planet todo so”
@@Kiyoone Because they don’t think it’s true 🤷♂️
because his face doesnt match his voice
Because it's bollocks
Thanks for the continued info.
As he stated, we are up to 5 fatalities this year so far, but well over 200 fires. As you can see in this video, how quickly they go from smoke to violent explosion to and extremely HOT violent fire. I've heard people say, 'Well, if I see it smoking, I'll just get it outside quickly...' NO, do NOT touch it, don't even go near it. It's a matter of seconds before it goes from smoke to explosion. You do NOT have time. And also, as he said, do NOT leave them near your only means of egress.
Since I’ve been watching your channel, I’ve learned a lot about lithium batteries and how to be safe with them! Thank!
Glad to help!
You forgot POF3. Phosgene is COCl2. Same family.
Smoke and fire are not the only danger with E bikes. I've rode motorcycles all my life, some sixty years of riding and these Ebikes are quite truthfully a motorcycle. The big problem, lack of proper training . This is sadly going to start showing up in injuries and death. And most of them will be children. Motorcyle training is available.
Yes. We need to stop using the misleading term *_motorized bicycle._*
1. *_All_* motorcycles are bicycles (yes, true, look it up).
2. *_Any_* bicycle with a motor *_is a motorcycle._*
I have to dodge E bikes at night "Jay walking" at 30mph with no road going gear like reflectors.
Or them running down sidewalks at 30mph, or going counterflow, or running red lights stop signs at speed.
When you have 500~800w motor on a bicycle its pretty quick, and when you take the governor off they go quicker.
Motorcycle training does not make you a good rider. Motorcycles are idiot magnets.
Why are tool battery,s not doing this? They have been around for 15 years.
At least 35years
It's really concerning knowing these batteries can just go at any given moment. I too was under the assumption that it mainly happens while charging.
I am so thankful for your work. It is really good and helpful .. I will not be buying an ebike ... any of them.
Nice because of people not understanding e battery’s is the real problem nothing to do with normal use . It’s to do with people that don’t understand the power contained in a lithium battery and the fact most of you run the battery at its thermal limit most of the time. Over discharge is the main reason these batteries go into thermal runaway. I have many lithium battery’s and never had a single issue with any because I treat lithium with the respect it deserves
@davidmcnamara8458 That by NO means guarantees you anything. Many, many Li-on fires have happened where no such overheating was a factor. Don’t delude yourself.
@ I live on a road that is unsafe for an e-bike but a motorcycle would be safe.
@ what ever bro . Most fires have been caused because people have damaged the battery during use . Do you understand lower battery voltage causes thermal runaway in some batteries? So I have a valid point. Non of my battery’s have ever gone in to a thermal overload. No delusions here. I think others have a delusional vision that they know everything! . What a joke pootube really is
Fire engineer here. I work at the fire brigade. In a fire like this, most of the "off gas" from a fire like this comes from other burning materials than the batteries. Although the probability is low, batteries can go into thermal runaway and ignite other things. Batteries should be stored safely.
These batteries have got to go.
How are you going to solve global warming and stop polluting with your ICE car that actually kills tens of thousands every year
Another concern I see is lithium batteries in RVs, apparently their performance is inhibited by cold temperatures, so people are installing them inside the RV where it is warmer, most commonly under the bed!
WOW!! These Batteries are a ticking time Bomb!! Glad I traded in my E-Ray for a ZO6...👍🖖
They claim this is environmentally friendly?
In normal use the battery is environmentally friendly. Is a burning Corolla environmentally friendly?
@@user-ln7of9gs4sa burning ICE Corolla can be put out. They can't put out the lithium fires.
@@user-ln7of9gs4s interesting how first responders need special
equipment to fight an EV v. a ICE fire
Please,tell us more
@@billysolhurok5542a fire blanket? Get with the times. Yeh battery fires are different. What are you trying to argue? What point are you trying to prove? Adapt, over come or go home.
@@user-ln7of9gs4s It burns at temps 75% lower than ev crap and requires exponentially less water to put out, so...yeah, compared to battery shit.
So many wake-up calls, yet so much snoozing from lawmakers and regulators.
you werent supposed to find out about this fatal 'flaw' until gas cars were already banned. lawmakers dont want anyone driving.
Well now that Cheeto Fuhrer won his pal Elon will make sure no laws can be passed to stop it.
Even property owners could ban them by leases on their properties...
There are lots of laws and regulations for storing any kind of battery. These people obviously broke those laws and people died. I bet the store owners or whoever is at fault is going to prison for life, if they’re not already there
all about big $$$$$$!
I worked around the corner from one that went up in Flames at the earlier part of last year I can honestly say it was bad there was runoff water running right by our shop down the street and the fire had reignited multiple times during the course of the next week's the inherent dangers of these batteries being stored inside are real if you want to research it it was the Laguna Hills California e-bike shop fire around March 2023
This is scary.
Lol: the HF was the safest compound in the battery smoke.😮
In a way, yes.
Good grief! Hard to imagine a more toxic component.....of course the volume of carbon monoxide and hydrogen generated would do more damage if iignited.....(and after watching this I realize that the carbon monoxide levels can be rapidly lethal)
@stevengill1736 the reactivity of the HF was something I wasn't thinking of before he mentioned it. Yea, what's the LEL of CO?
Edit: 12.5% / 125000 ppm. 10x what was mentioned.
@@ChiefBridgeFuser I believe it's 125,000ppm, and we can get above the UEL.
We need new laws banning these things from domestic situations
Given the number of everyday things people depend on today that wouldn't be possible or practical with anything with worse energy density than lithium, banning lithium batteries is likely impossible. Doubt many people would welcome 2lbs smartphones, 4lbs tablets, 10lbs laptops and cordless tools that weight twice as much for half the run-time using NiMH or SLA batteries.
Next best thing would be mandating that all new devices use LFP batteries which are ~4X less likely to have catastrophic failure and are much less energetic when they do at least until something even better is discovered and becomes economically viable.
Because more laws are better for everyone 😂 Common sense over convenience, vote with your wallet.
@@teardowndan5364 You have no clue what you are talking about.........not a clue!
Since the pandemic i see more and more how many safety regulations you can bypass when you have a lot of money.
Republicans would like to cut regulations until there is hardly any left and now they will control all 3 branches of government?!
We will be learning the hard way all over again why that is such a bad idea?! 🙄
I have a self built ebike, I take a lot of precautions with my batteries. One big one I have to wonder, is the charge rate creating unseen damage to cells. High charge rates produce a lot of heat, you can cool them down but the heat generation is where you will likely see damage to cells. I refuse to charge over 0.1-0.25c( or 10-25% charge rate ~2a charger on 20ah battery), however my batteries advertised 10a max charge(a 0.5c rate of charge); I won't tempt fate for the 2 hr convenience charge.
Super chargers are a whole other issue, if you're charging at double+ your capacity you will create heat and damage, which could add up to a thermal event.
Do your neighbours know you're a self-build EV enthusiast? Do they approve? From what I've seen EVERY self-build techie considers himself to be an expert in the field, whilst every other guy is (of course) a dabbling amateur.
Does your activity have an impact on your home insurance? Here in the UK there are countless so-called 'experts' souping-up and customising e-bikes and e-scooters; they're loaded with batteries and home-designed speed controllers which guarantee extreme performance [all unregulated and entirely illegal, but nobody seems to care]. The ultra-speed e-scooters are popular with neighbourhood drug dealers, who use them to evade the cops.
I don't care what people get up to in their own homes, but I do care when their mucking about puts my life in danger. How many battery packs has Expert A got stashed away in cupboards? Where did he get them from? What state are they in? Were they salvaged from wrecked cars, bikes and scooters? How many of the cells are damaged and unstable?
How safe are his homemade chargers?
Stealing domestic utilities - water, electricity - by bypassing the meters is still a popular crime here in Britain, but when things go wrong, only the thief suffers. He gets zapped or flooded; no biggie. Tampering with the domestic gas supply is far more heinous because one meddler trying to bypass his meter could cause a major gas leak and low up an entire street of houses.
The new wave of lithium e-bike and e-scooter experimenters seems no less worrying to me.
@EleanorPeterson wow, demonize your fellow humans much. I'm of the opinion you don't judge others if you don't know them. Respectfully, I'll do me, you do you.
I will say, I am from the old school...I repair, I build, I design and I damn well don't take short cuts.
This is the reason I stay away from society, I will do as I wish and if it has no impact on others, what business is it of theirs.
Equating all ebike users as criminals, is the criminal act here. We need to learn to live and let live.
I did my research, probably more than needed(nevermind being a trained electronics and computer technician). I still think the battery manufacturers neglected their due diligence in educating the masses before deploying these bundles of mini-bombs that do require a certain amount of care. Nevermind the super chargers for cars that charge waaay too fast for my liking, I'm fine with my 8-10 hr charge and keep an extra battery if I need more power for a day.
Some of us are careful, cause you know my life is most important and it would really piss me off if I died cause I was a dumb ass.
To finish this, mind your own dang business, live your own life, and a good ole 2 finger salute to you(if you don't get the reference...Up yer kilt!)
I live out in the country, but a dozen deaths in a year doesn’t make the news! E-bike are popular with my Amish neighbors, I will try to warn them to store outside.
thanks for sharing
Most fires that I watch from New York City, the fire fighters don’t wear their breathing apparatus so they are risking their lives for their lack of safety precautions. As a retired fire fighter I know jaw dangerous this practice is.
I trust the AA lithium batteries I use in my camera. Bigger batteries, not so much.
I could be wrong , but from working in the car trade years ago , you could on occasion see wiring melt from bad electrical connections , even dirty connections , because a bad connection creates a resistance which causes heat , just like the a bar radiator heater , the bars that glow red get hot due to high electrical resistance if they are connected even if everything is turned off .
Another thing , if you have a battery with low charge and a battery with higher charge , they will try to equalise , so imagine you have been out on your scooter banging over pot holes , up and down gutters day in and day out exposing the battery pack to shocks , and your battery pack is composed of 40 battery cells , with a electrical connection to every cell , you come home with half a charged battery with one cell that has acquired a bad connection , even though you are now not riding and not charging , that one single cell with a poor electrical connection and building up some heat while trying to equalize the charge even though everything is turned off and you are cosy in bed .
if ever you have had a flat battery in your conventional car and hooked up some cheap jumper leads with poorly connected alligator clips , as soon as you hit the starter and put some juice through them , they can get so hot they melt or catch fire .
I suspect the temperature tolerance for the chemicals in an Ev car battery or EV scooter or bike may be quite low .
Thats just my guesswork , and im happy to be proven wrong , but i do believe just because a battery pack is not actually being used , does not mean that chemical and electrical reactions are not happening even when dormant.
I`d love for an electrical engineer to talk on this .
Hi stached.since watching your videos now after charging my bike battery is moved to an outside shed if that then catches fire I only lose my shed not my family's lives.thanks again for your videos.keep up your fantastic work.✌️🫶🙏🏴
The CO is very alarming... I'm not sure how the other gasses react with living persons, its probably not good, but that CO level could easily kill a large number of people rapidly, even if they fled as soon as the fire started, especially if it take more than a minute or two to get out of the building.
After a high exposure it takes a very long time to get back to normal. Many people in and around these fires will suffer migranes and other symptoms for months.
I am confused about the lead levels, almost all electronics are RoHS since the mid 2000s, and lead was removed from nearly everything.
The CO itself a serious concern, especially since many people will spend 1-2 minutes just trying to fight the fire before exiting. As for the lead levels, my guess would be that the overseas factories may not be following the regulations.
I lived above a parking garage in a metropolitan area... I was on the 4th floor, but couldn't imagine waking up and leaving the building with wife and kids under 3 minutes. We had several fires set in the basement garage from the terminally unhoused crowd, some were cooks, others I think lit a car interior on fire. It was a private garage.
The batteries, though there were a lot of them were probably less in capacity than one vehicle in this example, if one or two cars would go off in a subterranean garage and the ventilation system wasn't adequate to keep the fumes from spreading up into the stairwells I fear we could have a few incidents where we loose a few families in their sleep. Or worse still, families trying to run down stairs.
I typically don't like pointing out safety concerns for EVs or batteries in general, as nearly every other thing about then makes them inadequate for most people.
I worked on large motive power batteries, those can be humbling, but the biggest risk came from handling the batteries due to their shear weight. If one exploded next to you, you might get some debris tossed at you and loose some hearing, bit you'll likely live to talk about it. The easiest example to what goes on is when lightning strikes a tree and boils all the water instantly, the same thing happens to the lead acid, all the water boils off instantly, and making a huge pressure spike.
HF forms super corrosive Hydrofluoric acid inside your body if you breathe it. Basically your body’s insides and organs dissolve.
Chinese battery manufacturers: "RoHS? We don't need no stinkin' RoHS." 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Excellent!
How do go about optimizing our phones, notebooks/laptops, and flashlights indoor storage/use areas for maximum saftey and convenience of use?
As an electrical enginerd I can tell you there is a reason this didnt happen in Korea town but did in China town. Cell quality matters and samsung/panasonic cells are your best bet. Never heard of name brand lithium cells having a thermal event just sitting unless in extreme heat. I store mine in a crate filled with sand retained in a rectangle by thin wood & a 5 gal bucket of sand next to it.
Due to the expense of these bikes, storing inside to prevent theft, vandalism, damage from weather all are normal things to do, but could be unknowingly deadly to the people around them in the event of a fire, frightening thought.
So the EPA knows about this .
They probably do but probably won’t do anything about it 🤷♂️
Don’t be concerned. It’s a green fire.
Money Talks
The EPA will be disbanded under the new administration.
That is so sad to hear especially from batteries
Fire service needs to research escape masks for homeowners, renters and others, to help in finding sound affordable smoke, CO escape masks
HF discussions will get the posts taken Down or throttled.
Threshold limit values for death are being lowered greatly by hygienists to a very small exposure for death, and internal organ damage. I appreciate all you do to inform. HF is tough to get the word out. Dam algorithm.
Why that material in particular? Do they mistake it for a certain water additive?
@@stevengill1736HF forms Hydrofluoric Acid inside your body, and only a small amount kills. Also it can dissolve through the skin and kill too. It’s among the most lethal acids and chemicals ever known
What about lithium power tool batteries? Any fire danger there?
My question to you is, if you had two 750w e bike batteries charging in you home, what type of cabinet or fireproof storage should I keep it in? looking for recommendations to increase safety of ownership.
Fire is only part of the hazard. The gasses released are flammable and can cause an explosion if confined.
How about the fact everyone has several Lithium batteries in their home? How many house fires have been started from those? What about the lithium batteries indicating Fire Exits?
Seems this problem is only going to get worse and worse.
lithium batteries come in different chemistries…lithium iron phoshate are much safer, but aren’t used much in bike batteries, because of there size, and C rating. I have many homebuilt bikes…and utilize LiFePO4 cells in a custom frame. I never charge unattended…I pay close attention to each cell in the packs. I have bought complete ebike specific batteries, and noticed poor build quality, unsecured balance wires being pinched, and movement within the pack itself, which is very concerning. Vibration induced shorts within the pack, is possible, especially with a bike that is curbhopping, or bumpy trails, gravel roads, etc. Handle like you are carrying a box of grenades…cause they can bite you suddenly, and hard!
Can you recommend an exterior detection or warning system for homes where immediate neighbors have EVs? Can you discuss any other precautions or recommendations a homeowner could undertake? Thank you!
I charge my ebike outside, even though you can remove the battery for charging inside.
All my cordless Milwaukee tools and torches are charged in the laundry on glass shelves surrounded by tiles. Even that isn't ideal, as one battery igniting, could set the ones next to it or above alight. Another solar installer said one of the Makita batteries caught fire. It's very rare, but it happens.
I wonder if the batteries responsible for the fire were lithium ion or lfp? lfp is much less flammable. It would be really great to know since most new bikes and scooters use lfp now.
If you start to think how many devices with li-ion batteries we have around us nowadays.... It is terrible. Just had a 2 200 mAh flashlight battery blow up on me, when I was taking it out of the flashlight to check the type. Put it in a kettle with lid and took it out into the snow to cool. - Then both the battery and the - rather new - flashlight were taken to recycling.... Got lucky this time. But made me think that I'll have to reduce the number of those devices as much as possible.
While the smoke from batteries is nasty, i don't have any context here. How does the cell toxicity compare with, say, a polyester t-shirt burning? (Self ignition is a different topic.)
bravo
Its not just the charge but also the discharge. The high rate of discharge for an e-bike or EV causes a lot of heat and stress on the battery. These batteries swell when charged and shrink when discharged causing mechanical fatigue. Remember those exploding Samsung phones. The battery compartment was 0.5mm too small for the change in dimensions due to charge/discharge. In the cases of fire when the vehicle wasn't being charged, the fire started some time prior internally and grew slowly. Probably caused by the mechanical stress.
I have a low power ebike.. should I worry since it's a small battery?
I have it in the living room.
Define "low power" how many watt hours?
This may sound stupid, but can an E battery burn absent oxygen?
Yes. Lithium-ion batteries do not need oxygen from the outside atmosphere to burn.
I can see insurance companies raising premiums if you store an e-bike indoors. Alberta, Canada has six plus months of very cold, so outdoors isn’t an option 🧐🤔
Many appliances have these batteries, why not stop manufacturing a faulty product, keep people safe and insurance rates low and NO MORE FIRES!
Nerve gas grade stuff emitted by thermal runaway lithium-ion batteries is not exactly the same as the smoke from a campfire.
E-bikes are frequently stored inside. There needs to be a mandate to use LFP batteries.
This grim news makes me relieved that a few years back I bought an Israeli NBC (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) gas mask off eBay. I keep it alongside my LifeVac home choking kit just in case.
Thank you for posting this video. It seems that firefighters are being tasked with dousing a lot of 'iffy c-junk' with otherwise potable water. The zeroth responders (absentee industrial operators) seem greedy in stocking and scarce in exercising bench safety. E-junk fires near residential buildings, whether in armpit Mississippi or upland Massachusetts, means that first responders may delay entering to search for potential victims. Metallic vapors linger. I think it doubtful to guarantee the content- or chemical response- of post-consumer electrolyte intended for market reentry. NASA may also have dealt with vaporized metal in crew spaces. Looks like absentee industrial 'negligence', a frightfully unnecessary exposure for first responders. Makes diesel fires look tame.
Power Tool battery fires inside homes ??????
In Australia we've had multiple lithium battery fires, people have died others trapped...a Law must be passed that bans e bikes, e scooters, mobility aids and cars with lithium batteries in residential buildings...your most at risk of death and injury while your asleep if they explode in a room, hallway, garage the intensity of the fire will be extremely hazardous more than a normal fire as was pointed out, this should be enough factual, scientific information for change to be implemented
There are warning signs. Temperature control and monitoring are the best ways to prevent these types of incidents. There should be rules that regulate the storage of lithium ion batteries in strictly climate controlled environments. Provisioned with a set amount of space between batteries to thermally isolate them. Then temperature monitoring systems could be required in addition to smoke alarms. Or manufacturers could be required to build in temperature monitoring features into batteries.
Eventually there could be a system developed that detects high temperature in the battery cells that will automatically alter the circuitry of the batter and release some kind of chemical agent.
What happened when two or three people in a family ride ebikes and store them in a shed that up beside the home. People living in apartments building. I seen bikes on their patio
Problem is that lithium batteries are used in just about every rechargable made today. Safe storage is unlikely. The lithium composition or even the type of electronic safeties on the cells, if any, do not need to be divulged to the end user who must decide on storage procedures.
these kinds of battery's just going run away for no apparent reason seems to me to be either contamination of the battery storage material or faulty construction of the battery in the first place both of which are manufacturer OC items. or the battery material is in fact inherently unstable or becoming unstable , which i consider a sign of contaminated battery storage materials.
One thing you didn't mention is damage.A dropped drill or jigsaw,the e-scooter fell over or bounced off a curb,a rock or debris flicked up under the wife's car on the road.All not so unheard of scenarios.All potentially battery damaging.
It's a polymer with lots of metal's mixed in..
I wish he would give more complete information. He didn't name all the gases, and didn't mention cobalt at all, which makes the deadliest metallic gas by far
New York (and/or the relevant authority) should’ve had regulations about businesses storing lithium ion batteries.
Unfortunately it takes time to realize there is a problem, then even more time to implement the regulations. I believe this particular shop had been fined before, but they kept operating illegally.
They should have called them Pinto Batteries. These batteries need banned.
These batteries are in your phone.
@@CanItAlready I do not have a cell phone.
Go! Go! Green Revolution!
Sharing
Are we have to buy air in the near future ? 🥺. Something wrong !!
Q: Are we (going to) have to buy air in the near future ? A: if Total Recall 1990 and Ronny Cox/Vilos Cohaagen are anything to go by, survey says "YES".
solar decathalon in the 1990s. driver of the solar car is literally bolted into the car. couldn't get them out fast enough. 😢 this hazard has been known for decades.
Nothing on Google about that.
Scary
thank the enviromentalists and the media
I always been tought: smoke kills. It is not the fire that kills, smoke does.
The only deadly gas that comes off me riding my peddle bike is obscene to say in public
My crikey, this seems to be literally every day. 😟
They have an ebike fire almost every day in NYC.
Yes, no smoke is safe.
But try telling that to people that smoke weed.
and why they could not just get out to the street,is what gets me...
So... you either choose to have it stolen or choose to have catastrophic fire...
Again?
All lithium powered devices need to have *core charge,* it is no different than lead acid batteries!
2:48
THINK;
Real & Present DANGER
Survival may be worse than succumbing.
There won't be a ban on these batteries, unfortunately. A better way to manufacture them where safety is the priority should be enacted.
Great info but I have to disagree. Thee is always signs that a pack is failing. The issue is no one is trained to look for them, test for them, or they are hidden in a way you cant even if you did know what to look for. The very first one is heat. The packs will always give off extra heat when charging and discharging. The reason most failures are happening when discharging is that is when the damage to the cells in the pack is creating the most heat. The failed cell has a huge internal resistance. Under load that resistance is turning the current into heat, which causes breakdown of the substrate which leads to gas. These gases are highly reactive and generate even more heat inside the cell. 18650's have vents and once a cell vents, its useless. Wrapped cells just expand but if you keep trying to use them they can catch fire too. All of these need proper Battery Management Systems (BMS) that can report on temps and cell charge and give warnings.
And how will you detect these signs if you're not there? Or if you're asleep?
This is way too much responsibility for the average consumer. EV bikes are wonderful but apparently they are made without much compliance. This is going to be a real problem .
Question for you why you don’t hear about battery fires involving Toyota hybrids you never hear about that is it because Toyota battery pack are better built?
Toyota didn't use lithium-ion battery chemistry until recently.
@ I was gonna say they start using lithium batteries in the last five years I think but still you never hear them catching fire.
Most hybrid batteries are nickel-metal hydride, not Li-on. Hence why they are essentially not a risk at all by comparison.
Funny but Toyota's gas cars catch fire all the time.
@@Tom-dt4ic but not because of the hybrid battery failed and you get the thermal runaway that’s not happening.
After watching all the EV fires in China for years, I’ve never understood people’s desire to own one.
Probably because the risk of a fire is still relatively low compared to say a car accident. Many hazards in life can kill us, but if the frequency is low we often overlook the hazard.
Still don't understand why they can't use lithium iron phosphate batteries...?
Lithium Iron Phosphate still has the same issues.
Q: Still don't understand why they can't use lithium iron phosphate batteries...? A: fair admission, it's because they're both HEAVIER and LESS POWER DENSE than NMC, and as the Captain eludes they are unfortunately NOT the "Chemical Panacea" that they've been made out to be. no, the people promoting LFP this way are simply REACTING to the fact that they've "screwed up royally" by being DUPED into originally promoting NMC as the "cure-all" for solving Man's transportation when it isn't. yeah at this point in History, even the 5th Graders in the Elementary Schools are able to tell us how NMC is "not the DROID that we are looking for..." (best Sir Alec Guinness/Obi-Wan accent)
Smoke alarms are designed to pick up the smoke they create