All about the ZF 9HP 9 Speed Automatic transmission
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- Why does the new 9-Speed Auto in certain Chrysler, Jeep, Honda, Acura, Fiat and Range Rover products feel unusual? I deep-dive into the first production 9-speed transmission to answer that question.
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This was great! I have a 2020 Ridgeline with the 9 speed and so far it's been pretty good. It did take some getting used to with the pushbutton selector. The 6 speed would probably work fine for me but as long as the 9 speed stays reliable I can live with it.
Alex - these in depth videos really set you apart - much appreciated.
You are in my opinion the most in depth car reviewer out there. It is a pleasure to have this type of "Workshop" style review done that I would guess Honda is not even providing to their staff at most any level. Well done.
Alex,
Thanks for taking the time to provide us with this excellent description of the ZF
("Zed-Eff" for us Canadian folk).
Super content! Well delivered too.
Always appreciated.
Cheers.
Wow, that was the best explanation on these modern systems I have ever seen.
Thanks for giving an engineering level description in simple terms. I wouldn't know who would be better to explain this than Alex!!
It is awesome to see that someone put so much time and effort into their video!
I can tell you took the time to research and understand this transmission before explaining it to your viewers. Good jod Alex and, great video! I do not know of a single channel that will get this technical and brake it down to be so easy to understand. This is why i am subsided to your channel. Keep up the good work. RUclips needs more people like you!
Edit: Loved the CVT part at the end too.
Outstanding presentation Alex. Thank you for putting so much effort into your work.
Alex, thank you for this video. Your explanation made a complete sense for me and you did a great job explaining difference between traditional AT, CVT, and ZF box.
GREAT video, I've looked at many ZF-9 articles to the point of making my head spin, this video cleared up a lot of questions. Thanks!
Yeah I believe that 9-speed is the same one that's in my Jeep.
Yep. He said it (updated post ) lol.
You're a Genius Alex. Probably literally.
This guy is REALLY bright , folks. If you couldn't already tell.
Thank you for this great explanation of the 9 speed transmission in Hondas and Acuras.
Very well explained, and covers quite well what I felt in test drives of an Acura TLX V6. Thanks!!!
I drove a Chrysler 200s with 9 speed transmission. It saves fuel for sure but the responsiveness was a nightmare. First at highway speed it was very (very) hard to accelerate when you wanted to change line and make pass. It took ridiculous long time to downshift and found the necessary power. On the other hand, it seemed also confused to shift in stop and go traffic. At one time the car just won't move until I floored the gas pedal since it really couldn't make any kind of sudden acceleration.
August 2015 they have fix this issue. Have your car service :)
blablabla1185 It’s fun to sift it manually the Cherokee was pretty bad with the 2.4 and 3.2 a my grandmothers 2015 T&C limited would beat that shifting manually and ECO off
Dog clutches are either engaged or disengaged. Software interrupts engine torque when these dog clutches are doing their thing at times. Hence the poor responsiveness at times. STUPID design, all in the name of a small form factor.
I agree the HONDA pilot with the z9 doesnt really speed up even when you start accelerating...you must mash the has for the darn thing to rev up...but when you mash the has it does hey throaty and aggressive and also does pause like 3 seconds before revving the engine hard. So I guess in stop and go traffic...when you hit the has ..the car wont move fast enough....could that cause an accident? Not sure..must be a result of the drivers actions...also I hear the tranny learns the drivers driving habits....etc....I am going to buy a 2019 mdx
Your 100% right my Acura does the same thing. It blows…
Please make an updated video on this ZF HP9
I second this motion. It would be interesting to do a comparison to see how Honda and Chrysler/Jeep have improved the ZF.
Great Information ! Appreciated .
Thanks
Joe
Would have been nice to cap the video off with a 0-60 run to show how many shifts it does. Still though excellent stuff as always, thanks.
Wow! Fascinating! More videos videos like this, if at all possible. The engineering going into modern cars blows my freaking mind.
zf 9 speed I like it works great on my Jeep renegade trailhawk been driving 4x4s since I was 12 years old I am 61 now great 4x4 good off road traction I was very surprised ! it's not a Subaru !
love your details in specs & explanations.
SUBSCRIBED :)).
Just bought a lightly used 2016 Jeep Cherokee Overland with this transmission. I haven't driven it much, but so far I have found it weird and delightful. No complaints at all. Thanks for the explanation.
Great informative review as always! Super helpful Alex! Looking forward to what Honda is up to with their own Honda 10 Speed...that will be interesting. In many ways I wish Honda would not use other people products...seems to always get them in trouble (mostly thinking about rebadged Isuzu products in the past). I'd always rather they just waited for their own product, but I understand a person has to have something to sell...but a reputation is also so very important. Appreciate all you do!
Love these informative videos! ZF makes some serious transmissions. I'd love to see this style of video done on the Getrag Dual-Clutch Automatic. Especially since Ford and Volvo seem to be all about them these days. I have a 2014 Ford Fiesta with the 6-Speed Powershift, which is the Getrag Dual-Clutch. I love the feel of it! Very, very different than your every day autos and I think it actually worries some people unnecessarily.
ccmaster86 good luck those dual clutch transmissions are just troublesone!
The most I've been able to find on ANY of these ZF transmissions. You'd think it would be easier to find technicals or breakdowns at least considering half the industry is using th things now lol. Good work
Thanks.
I just bought a Jeep Renegade with that transmission and in a month or so it will arrive.
Now I know what to look forward to and why the transmission will act as it does. Thanks :D
🤯 THANK YOU!!!
PLEASE PLEASE MAKE MORE VIDEOS!! You made a confusing subject seem so simple!!😊
Great explanation! I often wondered why gear 9 wouldn’t engage on its own.
Great video. Really informative. I love the diagrams.
Hi Alex, I’ve watched many of your videos and have always wanted to comment saying that I really love how in-depth your reviews are. Having children the added information for the child seat reviews have also helped us a lot as well. Question for you: we are thinking about a 2015 Acura TLX V6 or 2.4L and was a bit concerned over some stop sale and recall information surrounding the transmission issues. I am wondering if you have any insight regarding this? Software updates versus hardware issues etc. Thank you so much and please keep bringing updated content. You are one of my go to sources for car reviews. I love how transparent and honest you are. So great!
this video is surprisingly MUCH more informative than I thought. I am an owner of 2014 jeep cherokee. it does feel weird sometimes
As always Alex, this was beyond superb explanation and I really enjoy watching your videos!! I felt like a mechanic after watching this video, LOL! But I'm wondering, do you see any potential mechanical issues resulting from this new design that consumers should watch out for?
Good explanation as to why our 2015 Cherokee has so many transmission issues! 6 times to the dealership, and you just explained what the dealership couldn't …….or wouldn't! :(
We bought the base model Cherokee with the 4 cyl that uses this transmission as a high mileage daily driver. At 2000 miles the transmission completely blew. Started out with slipping into gear when it was decelerating, causing it to launch forward when decelerating. After being completely replaced, haven't had any problems since. Living outside of Austin, Texas , the toll road and highway is a daily commute. I put in cruise at 80 mph , it slips into that 9th gear and the engine basically idles. I get 30+ mpg on the highway without trying.
+aa134368
I envy you, I live in a third world country with a max highway speed of 55 mph. My life sucks! :(
+ruizhernandeztrustfi 55 was the max speed in the U.S. until 1999...... Buy the manual instead
.
Planning to buy the same model. But this transmission is sort of stopping me. Is your transmission still running okay? I know that the transmission issue was fix 2015 August.
+cliffcri at 48k miles there haven't been any problems whatsoever; all we've done is routine maintenance, have had zero issues with the car. From what the jeep rep told me, Jeep got a bad batch of zf transmissions or the programming was wrong to start with. Either way it's resolved and if you do have problems I believe they have a lifetime transmission warranty
aa134368 Appreciate it thanks. Jeep did tell me that after software issue was resolve, complaints re transmission were way way down. I'm im going to buy myself a Jeep :)
Nicely done. Thank you. TLX drivers have been asking about those two unusual shifts since the car arrived. :-)
Great video explanation! I own a Cherokee with the ZF 9 speed and have had good luck with it! I can tow a travel trailer that weighs 4,000 with no problem and get decent mileage for the V6 and power it makes.
K. R. V. well let's see how many miles the trans last, I be it will start to give trouble around the 100,000 miles or 120,000 miles like other ZF transmissions out there.
@@edvinnelius8213 he's not lying, 124,300 miles and mine just went out, Hopefully they fix her up😭
vary easy to understand video cheers
Good humble genuine man I love the video content brotha 🙂💯❤️ respect homie
That was really an excellent video.
Don't forget that the lower 1st gear helps the off-road performance enormously (as long as you can command the box not to upshift). For example, Grand Vitara had a 1:22 total ratio, which is basically within the strike range of this 1:20. The new Jeep Renegade (BU) also boasts the 1:20 ratio with the same transmission, although according to some report it has a 2-speed PTU, like on Cherokee.
Thank you for explaining how this transmission works! I just got this car (Honda Pilot) a few weeks ago and just left the service department because what I thought was a transmission issue, is actually typical for this car, apparently. Now I feel better about what they told me!
What was the issue?
Wow I can tell you researched this subject. Kudos.
Ty Alex for that in-depth Explanation ✅
Amazing explanation, thank you
Nice job explaining this dude
Hi Alex, thanks for the detailed explanation. I have the 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude with the ZF 9HP Transaxle. I think it is a cool design. I am just worried about reliability,, and its robustness of design. I have never seen 9th gear. It is interesting that on the highway I see an indicated best of 33 MPG! On average I do about 24-27 MPG overall depending on conditions, and how I drive of course. I am a Automobile fan, and have been since I was 5 years old. I always love new things. The Cherokee continues my curiosity of new things. I hope this transaxle does better this time around. You know what happens sometimes to curiosity, and cats. I love my Cherokee otherwise.
Thanks Alex. Great explanation.
Alex, Impressive explanation on the ZF and other transmissions. I have seen your car reviews in the past and thought before you do a good job at them but after watching this one I suspect you are a mechanical engineer by trade or schooling? Well done!
Might I request that you evaluate the new Lincoln Continental anytime soon? Appreciate your style and ability to explain things. Thanks!
Great analysis, thanks!
thanks, Alex, that was great.
thanks for the video.. learned a lot
Very good explanation...thanks!
i was scraching my head this entire video ill come back after i research all the big words you said
Zackariah Gill yeah I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm reading the comments and ppl say the explanation is great but i still don't know what's going on. I want a clear thumbs up or thumbs down, but he makes it seem like its a matter of preferece. But ppl who own cars with this tranny are in the comments saying they hate it and are taking high 4-figure hits to trade it in.
@@sighiguess
I love it. But early software was glitchy and caused some jerky and unpredictable ratio changes on some brands and models of vehicles. Honda UK's CRV had it fitted through 2015 to 2018/19 on diesel models and have really faultless programming. Others not so much. However they should all have had software or 'firmware' updates and in some cases [Jeep] multiple updates to improve the characteristics. Hopefully they are all fine now.
Alex, thanks again for your great review and explanation. So, are you a fan of the nine speed transmission?
Like the in depth review of the trans . Still don't understand why we need anything more than a six speed when the nine speed won't shift into the top gears at our highway speeds 65-70. Six gear would seem to provide enough ratios to give low start high overdrive gears and an even spread in between
.
Awesome explanation Thanks!
understanding the unique attributes of the 9sp will help a few people stop worrying but mostly wont enjoy the performance and economy benefits. i hope to get a 2017 Chrysler 200 V6 with AWD and a 9sp soon. Hold your warnings I know what I like.
Amazing info!
Alex EXCELLENT job explaining it all...We know ZF9 is better than CVT just plain obvious.... My question would be if its about gear ration and torque handling capability there is only one transmission that fits the bill DCT Dual Clutch Transmission.
Good explanation!
I have the 200 with this transmission. I have a love hate relationship with it… Mine after adapting to my driving shifts when I want it to. Always downshifts quick, and just behaves how I want it to. My complaint comes from how it’s just so not smooth ever. It’s not like hard shifting but it’s noticeable, every single time it shifts. Especially the 4-5, and 7-8, but that makes a lot more sense after learning about the dog clutches for only those shifts
This explains why some of the downshifts flares the RPM a little because it’s rpm matching.
Thanks for the very informative review. It contains intriguing details. We're eagerly anticipating the arrival of our brand-new Nissan Interstar, equipped with a 9-speed automatic transmission. Coupled with the new 2.0 engine and its best-in-class aerodynamics, we anticipate it to be the most fuel-efficient LCV in its category. This combined with the fact Nissan and Honda have a new working partnership. I can’t wait to see what fruits this bears 🎉
Hey Alex, I'm shopping for my 1st crossover, baby of the way n all that, choosing is hard. Been watching ur reviews, considered the 2017 Acura MDX, with the new class action lawsuit re deceleration, how the transmission shifts, do u still think it's a good buy?
Thanks keep up the gd work👍🏾
Perfect, thank you.
Alex, great video, for the second time. I ended up buy a 2019 Ridgeline with the 6-speed. Which do you think will last longer 2019/6spd or 2020/9spd?
Does the 9spd do a lot of gear-hunting?
Very interesting. Yeah those dog clutches and going into neutral while the transmission rev matches the gears is exactly what a heavy truck driver does when shifting... Or now the automated manuals do it for you (less driver control= a bummer imo)
Excellent video, Alex I believe Honda knows these 9 speed ZF transmissions have issues, I know they are now pushing their own designed 10 speed automatic. Any issues know about the 10 speed auto that Honda made in house. I was going to buy the new refreshed Ridgeline for 2021, really like it, but feel this 9 speed will give me problems. Any word if Honda will put the 10 speed automatic in the Ridgeline?? I wish they would.
Really appreciated for all these valuable information....................however my 2019 Honda Oddseys seem not smooth in 2nd and 3rd gears compare to 2011 which I owned before, do you have any clues?
Actually it's not necessarily true that the ZF9 has to go into neutral during power-on upshifts or downshifts 4-5 and 7-8.
If you look at the clutch charts the two dog clutches are never used as "oncoming" clutches going up the gears. During upshifts they are always being disengaged and overtaken by a friction clutch pack. If the programming is done right then the friction pack can actually be partially engaged and at some point during that engagement window the dog clutch becomes unloaded and can slip out without torque interruption. A very recent example of this type of shift can be found in the Porsche Taycan's 2-speed rear gearbox - the first gear is engaged via dog clutch and 2nd gear is engaged via friction clutch. There is a seamless 1-2 upshift because the 2nd gear clutch can partially engage and neutralize load on the dog clutch allowing it to slide out without torque interruption.
During power-on downshifts the same holds true, the "off-going" friction pack can slip while still partially engaged until the dog clutch RPM is aligned, at which point it slides into engagement and then the offgoing friction clutch released at a controlled rate.
The only time the dog clutches absolutely necessitate additional management is during garage shifts (P/N/D/R) and downshifting while engine braking. During garage shifts the friction clutch packs will have to go through some sort of slippage or managed tie-up because one of the dog clutches has to disengage for reverse and re-engage for drive. During power-off downshifts, to maintain engine braking either the vehicle brakes need to intervene or the transmission uses some form of managed tie-up to provide "braking" torque momentarily while the engine is briefly in neutral and rev-matching before the dog clutches can re-engage.
It is very interesting how Honda’s previous then-current _(as of this video’s release)_ traditional 6-speed automatic and current _(as of this comment’s release)_ 10-speed automatic are much more reliable, durable, and dependable than the ZF 9-speed automatic transmissions. 🤔
Great video, Alex. Can you do a similar video on the ZF 8 speed that is in the Jeep Grand Cherokee?
The ZF on the cherokee shifts faster as that was designed to be sportier... It is a better transmission if you are looking for a more sportier feeling IMO
I have 2017 Pilot Elite, with 115K miles. Runs great. I would like to complete fluid change my self. I am not able to find instruction online or by honda about fluid drain flush and refill procedure. Can you please help?
We have a 2015 Pilot. Last week we started experiencing problems. The car would start moving with a slight roughness, then there would would be a more extended roughness and difficulty shifting when we got up to about 30 mph. The problem stopped when I switched the transmissiin into snow mode. After that, we didnt experience an issue until the problem happened again today.
There are no codes but the dealer has ordered us a part. Dont know what the part is and it's not yet installed.
Many Thanks Alex... That explained a Lot and removed the mystery around the odd behavior of my Cherokee KL Trailhawk.
Do you have a patreon -or whatever it is called- account? I'll be more than happy to support an informative and professional channel like yours.
Do you think this transmission will fit on 2017 accord j35y1? I want my accord to have sh-awd. Thank you
i had a 2016 Acura MDX with this transmission...the 4 to 5 gear he talks about is true... it felt like losing power for a second when i tried to accelerate. i REALLY HATE this transmission and the way it feels. I sold the car after 4 months of ownership. Thats how much i hated this transmission.
Sae Kim yeah I'm experiencing issues with my 2016 MDX. Since day one I've had jerkiness, doesn't accelerate quick at times. The transmission is like Jekyll and Hyde. Never know when it's going to be good or bad.i had a software update a couple weeks ago and seemed great at first then went back to behaving like it always has. I put in a complaint with Acura Client Relations and we will see what they do for me. I have 24" wheels on it but I've also had the factory wheels, 20s, and 22s before and experienced the same thing. I've had the car over a year
when you anticipate that the loss of power is going to happen...just punch it. I did that for about a month straight and that seemed to train the car to shift smoothly. its weird but i think the car learned to shift smoother after doing that for a few weeks. Its really noticeable if you try to baby the car...just punch it before it happens if possible. it helped the computer to learn how u want it to shift. hope this makes sense and good luck 👍
Alex, any reliability concerns or predictions?
I’m watching this as I’m on my way home in a 2016 Pilot Elite that has this exact transmission
Have you had any problems , I was thinking about getting one How many miles is on your car ?
abdur rauf my dad’s Pilot is relatively new with not even 100k and it’s 4 years old
Still drives like it did from day 1
[4.33 : 1] seems to be a pretty low final drive. Does the effective [20.41 : 1] 1st gear ratio affect fuel economy in stop-and-go traffic; does the car start in 2nd gear, or does the transmission just up shift quickly to 2nd then 3rd when compared to other ZF-9HP applications with higher final drive ratios like the Jeep Cherokee.
Hmmm. So this shift to neutral as gears line up with the dog clutch shifts 4 to 5/5 to 4 and 7 to 8/8 to 7 and the ensuing rev match as the clutch engages the next gear, is that what's causing the occasional rough shift in my Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk? It's literally like a kathunk.
Hello. I work in a company; we repair automatic transmissions. Gearbox 9HP48 we also repair. Very often - Dog Clutch F is broken. I think - the problem is if the gearbox often includes 4-5 gears, the gearshift engages very quickly and for this reason it wears out quickly. Why do you think this dog clutch F very often wears out in this gearbox? Sorry for my English.
great info
Awesome in-depth review Alex.
But I still hate this unnecessarily complicated and troublesome transmission. I have it in my 2015 Cherokee...I hate it!
I don't know why Honda would choose it for their cars. It's really unreliable.
Great explanation! Suspect this is the future of all automatic transmissions.
Have you had any more issues? I just bought a used 2017 Mdx and I'm so upset to just find out about all the issues these vehicles have been having. I had mine for two weeks and it randomly shifted into park. I'm taking to Acura on Friday to get checked out.
my old Jeep 75 cj5 had 16 forward and two in reverse 86 to 1 crawl ratio !
I have this transmission in my 2015 twin-turbo-diesel Honda C-RV, made in the UK. Frankly it behaves like every other automatic apart from the close ratios. It works almost perfectly and very very like the 8 speed AW transmission fitted to my XC90. To all intents and purposes it is an eight speed, as you say until about 80mph where it changes into 9th ratio.
What does distinguish this particular Honda tuning is the superb downhill engine braking that holds a lower ratio when it feels that it is appropriate.
The doggy ratio changes on the Honda are seamless and certainly do not feel different to any of the others. It's all down to individual brand's engine and transmission ECU mapping and programming. Honda got it right in the British C-RV. Land Rover/Range Rover have had less success, at least on early applications, similar to Cherokee applications only less so. Jeep made an absolute mess of initial software with many customer complaints and several software updates. Not sure whether they ever got it right?
Just bought a CRV 1.6 d 2015 ex auto, panicked when I starting reading about all the negative feedback on the 9 speed. Lost of unhappy range rover Evoque owners etc. It was only once I read your comment did I research deeper and my mind was put to rest, hopefully honda has done it right like you say, well at 55k miles it drives perfectly
@@zororat
Mine is also at 55k miles now but hasn't done many miles in the last year, for obvious reasons. There was a recall on this transmission a few months ago, simply to change the transmission oil for fresh. Check through your Honda app with serial number whether yours is due or has been done, or otherwise with your Honda dealer. It is free of charge.
The odd thing about the Honda application of this transmission is that mine has only briefly engaged 9th for about a dozen times in the three years I've owned it. It needs to be above the national maximum speed limit on the flat or downhill for it to change up and I have done near zero motorway miles with it.
It's a lovely car. Enjoy.
I have to really pay attention to notice the shifts in my Fiat 500x 9 speed, except under slow acceleration it shifts kind of hard from 1st to 2nd. or under hard acceleration the shifts arer more pronounced u do have to b running about 70 + to hit 9th though.
how is the transmission doing on 2018 and later Acura TLX?
Question:
Does this 9 speed have both 'full automatic' and manual with no clutch, aka 'shiftronic' ... like my 2018 Hyundai Tucson Limited 7 Speed ?
Close ups of the gear shift inside show + & - symbols ... like my Hyundai.
If 'shiftronic', to go up in gears (1>2>3 ...), do you push gear shift forward or pull backward?
Hyundai ... is push forward (pull back to down shift). I once test drove a BMW 328i which was the opposite. Maddening. Contrary to logic.
TIA
Im curious, why the need for the dog clutches if its only used on those two gear switches? Any advantages?
Space and packaging.
Hoping you can answer I have searched online but cannot discern if the 2021 Honda Odyssey has a ZF 9HP transmission like the 2019?
thanks for the explain
Good explanation, I was worried
👍😁 Well done. ARTICULATION = ⭐⭐⭐⭐
Hi, i am happy with the 4-speed transmission as long as it has girthy gears
OK, so where is the transmission oil filter located. On Chryslers 8-speed the oil filter is part of the oil pan and costs $500.00.
I have the the zf in my 19 ody...it has been solid so far...only have 46k miles..so time will tell..i drain and fill every 30k at this point...zf gets a lot of backlash it seems...maybe honda failed on the software from what i can see mainly...our friend has the 22 ody with 10 speed..not only will mine beat it handily in acceleration..the 9 speed i can manage to even get better fuel economy....my take.
Hey Alex, great video but I have a question. Why even bother using two dog clutches? from the way it sounds, it seems as if its just adding complexity and the possibility for less reliability over time. Wouldn't it have just been easier and more reliable looking long term to use 9 regular clutches in the transmission, rather than using the dog clutch?