Is the core library of Superior Drummer 3 (still) any good? (feat. Huub83)
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- After all those fancy expansion packs that have been released lately, you might ask: Why cannot I just use the core library? In this video, I talk about three reasons why people sometimes struggle with the core library and demonstrate how you can achieve everything from a dry and tight sound to open and loud with just a few clicks of the mouse.
Chapter:
0:00 Intro
1:34 Understanding sample recording
2:43 Utilizing the software
3:58 People are lazy
6:11 Huub's performance
7:17 Mixing a dry kit
13:43 Dry Kit Performance
15:44 Mixing a rock kit
17:17 Rock Kit Performance
19:16 Conclusion
Check out Huub‘s channel: / huub83
@Huub83 Drums
#SuperiorDrummer3 #CoreLibarry #Huub83Drums
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Superior Drummer 3 is a monster piece of software. I fully agree with these points. This is a virtual recording studio for drums. I think the biggest issue is realising that you have to know what you are doing. We’re living in a time where everything is at our fingertips. We’ve become dependent on quick fixes and quick results with minimal effort. This is convenient of course but also very detrimental to our ability to persist and to solve problems ourselves. Take the time to study and learn about what you want to achieve. SD3 is an amazing product.
I moved from EzDrummer, and that's exactly it. Superior if far far superior in sound quality, but also much harder to get it right on the mix, in my experience
Another greaty video, Mike! Thanks for the info!
I love the Core library, especially the Metal/Heavy Rock Punch preset!
That was very cool! Greatings to Huub as well👍🏾
Another awesome tutorial! Thanks!!
Great video! I have been trying to make my kit sound more dry now I know how. Thank you!
Great tutorial. You can get the results you are looking for with SD3 core library. These tips help a lot. That being said the Decades SDX has changed my entire process with SD3. The default Decades kit is stellar! It’s the best starting point virtual drum kit I’ve ever heard.
By the way that’s Bernard Purdie in my pic with me. He knows a little about drums. 😁
Matias and Toontrack should be paying you for all this content. Unreal.
Great stuff as always, man! Cheers!
Thank you for watching Danny. Appreciate it.
Dope jam button : 13:47
I've only delved deeply into SD3 since Covid as I haven't been able to work with live drummers. As a producer, recording and mixing engineer it's a huge plus for me to emulate a live drum recording session with SD3 and treat it the same way I do with the real thing. The last thing I want is to use preset mix setups or any processing applied like EQ, Compression, or Reverb as I have an arsenal of extremely sophisticated tools to do that in Cubase. This makes SD3 the perfect tool for my situation. No it doesn't have a quick learning curve but the more I gain expertise with it the more I learn about and appreciate it. Thanks for the videos, Mike. I'm becoming a big fan of your amazing videos and help.
Thanks a lot for your kind words, Kevin. Glad you like my content.
Mike, thanks for a great video. I understand that you did a lot of tweaking and adjusting and I like the final result. Would you please share some channel settings so we could replicate this? Thanks again!
I just upgraded to SD3 from 2, and also picked up the Orchestral Percussion and Death and Darkness. I love all of it.
wow this is really cool!
I believe most of those who complain don't play e-drums. I can tell SD3 is first software which made my kit feel like a real drums. it took dust out of my pads.. no hi hat problems, no spikes, finally:)
Love your videos Mike! Could you possibly do a review of the "Latin Cuban Drums EZX"? Its hard to find out what the articulations really sound like and it seems to have some of the cleanest natural kit sounds out there
Fantastic! Thanks you
Thanks Mike. 👍😎 Will try this rock mixing idea on my next mix. I was doing something similar before but it didn't really sound like this. I've tried the mixing effects from SD3 and also copied the idea (from a preset) into the DAW. I do prefer the DAW effects way.
Great work Mike!
I fully agree with your points Mike. I still use the SD3 Core Library a lot, you need to spend a lot of time to get some results but it's definitely worth it.
Thanks Mike as always for your very educational videos on SD3.
My goal these days is to learn much more of what this software can do for what I need, which is how to get a better sound in FOH in church services which I play SD3 every week in church.
I fall in the category of #3. Mainly because SD3 is so complex with so many features that I’m overwhelmed and just know enough to play the drums.
I think the dry mix worked best for the song.
BTW: that track is from Jim Riley’s fantastic book and recordings: “Survival Guide for the Modern Drummer”. I highly recommend it as it has drumless tracks and tutorials for just about every musical genre of which I covered a fusion track which can be found on my channel.
Hi Mike, great teaching video, as always!
To all this, do you think you can analyze the new EZX library: "Modern metal"?
I've barely scratched the surface of SD3, coming from EZ but I can easily see how all encompassing it is and can't wait to get fully immersed in it.
SD3 requires a lot of compression and transient design to sound snappy and punchy. I was always unhappy with the sound - everything sounded tame in comparison to other drums - until a couple of months ago, when I really made an effort to sculpt the sound and compress everything.
I made copies of my favourite songs - Dreams by Fleetwood Mac, Heart of Gold by Neil Young and a couple of others - and tried to get as close as I could. And that´s when I realised how much compression they need. Especially the snares. And then I save those settings as presets and use them in my own songs.
Well, that's called production...
To demonstrate the ability of the core library to do ROCK and even heavier stuff (metal, hardcore, punk-rock, etc), i would have gone even further and use no samples, and spend time tweaking the tuning and envelope of the shells (and also kick beater material options). These parameters make a huge difference.
Great video by the way (as always with your SD3 videos).
Anyone who has experience recording real drums and getting good sounds from that can get anything you’d ever need from Core library IMO. The tweakability of this is insane. One of my favorite things is being able to shape the decay of the various room mics and control bleed leveled. It’s just an amazing bit of software.
@@anthonydallarosa8314 Word.
I have ggd , superior drummer 3, ezdrummer2..i keep coming back to sd3.. there is something unique about this software that always kept me to mess around and experience the editing, shaping the tone of the drums regardless with any expansions. I usually mix my drums inside the software and do some post-editing on the daw drum mix busses..
There isn’t anything unusable in the core library, it’s really a case of how each is interpreted and set up for recording. I tend to use the DAW plugins as well. I record the whole thing to midi, then convert each sound to its own audio track then add processing as required. You can’t go far wrong if you set the right balance of overheads ‘ room mics, and treat it as if you are recording a real live kit. Let’s face it, most drum kits sound pretty awful for recording as is when close miced without some level of processing or control. If you forget about it being a piece of digital software and imagine it’s a real drum kit and treat as so from the ground up you can’t fail to get a decent sounding drum kit.
Is it still any good??
I'm planning on releasing some hip-hop beats next year, I use SD3 to make them. And I'm not joking when I say that on every beat I build the drumkit in the song from scratch. Haven't used the same SD3 core kit twice. SD3 has so many drums and ways to mix and match them that it'll probably take me years and years before I explore all the options and start repeating myself. On one beat I didn't even use drums - there are a bunch of strange percussive noises like piano pedals that you can use to make a completely unorthodox experimental drumkit. SD3 was expensive, but it was worth every penny. And to think that originally my main reason for buying it was the upgraded UI, hehe. I was perfectly happy with my SD2 SDX and the few EZXs I have, I did not expect to love the core library this much.
Hi Mike,
You are an amazing source of information. Would you know of places to get paid or free, high quality drumless tracks?
Really great breakdown on how to get the best out of SSD3. The drummer is good too; although I’m never a fan of over used crashes. Certainly sone songs with emphasized sections call for it. The main reason I bring this up is cymbal samples ( even SSD3 ) have horrible aliasing artifacts, especially the crashes. I’m sure some of these artifacts are due to not maximizing mic placement to ensure minimal phase issues as the cymbal swings and radiates in its captured sound field.
Great Mike! Could you make a video about how to get the best snare in SDX3?. Love your videos.
Hi Pablo, thanks a lot. What do you mean by „the best snare“?
@@MikeLuke One that sounds like a really loose fart please.
Hey, Mike. Just came across your channel. Loving it! I'm new to the e-kit world. I was wondering if I could use any gear other than a module to record drums to midi inside of a daw? I would like to record using software. I'm not really interested in preset sounds on a module. Thanks!
Hi Brantley, thanks for stopping by. You need a module in any case. The module translates your hits into MIDI information and then sends it to your computer.
Thanks for the tips, i wasn't aware if the channel envelope, i use what ever library fits the song, so yeah i use core library
Cheers George. Thanks for stopping by and watching.
Easily the best explanation for anyone expecting 'instant gratification' from SD3 (or SD2 for that matter). What we have to understand is, a 'polished' drum sound is a mixture of the application of compression, EQ and room mics after drums have gone to hard drive/tape. I lack mixing skills but with minimal compression and EQ (plus your ears) it is fairly easy to mix your drums with a band demo and achieve the type of drum sound heard on pro recordings. However, the isolated drum sound you have mixed to music may well not be what you would naturally hear sitting at an acoustic kit. Room sound and compression make a big difference to a final mix drum sound which you won't necessarily hear at your kit! If you want to play solo and are happy with processed sounds, then you're better off with EZ or BFD or AD. If you want to play solo and achieve the sound of a natural kit with the sort of natural ambience you would hear at your drum seat then you can achieve this with SD2 or SD3 core libraries.
100% agree, especially on your point „the isolated drum sound you have mixed to music may well not be what you would naturally hear sitting at an acoustic kit“: You always mix the drums in context of a whole song. No one cares how the snare or the toms sound in solo. The people just listen to the final song. There‘s a quote from mixing engineer Andrew Scheps: „All that matters is what comes out of the speakers.“ Period.
@@MikeLuke That’s why I turn off all the room mics in SD and focus on the basic OH ambience for achieving a realistic 'sitting at the kit' sound. It's quite amusing sometimes, to solo one or two ambient channels and hear that instant John Bonham effect!
I think it is a good time to release a new mix walkthrough, it has been a while :-)
I will consider doing one. Looking at the views I get on those mix walkthroughs, I never had the feeling my subscribers appreciate them. ;)
Just bought edrums with superior drummer 3. This invaluable 👍🙏
Thanks Jason, appreciate it.
What's the software with more cymbals and snares options? Thanks
I’m thinking about getting SD3 but I’m wondering, if I want a more quick fix can’t I just use the presets they included to get a more polished sound without the legwork? Or do I still need to do more processing beyond the presets?
You can change all presets if needed. But if you want a quick mix ready sound, you should take a closer look at EZDrummer3 then. Even though SD3 has tons of mix ready presets, for me they are always just a starting point. And honestly, I usually start mixing and tweaking from scratch as every sounds needs adjustments- depending on the rest of the instruments playing along (bass, guitars, keys…). So before using a preset and then constantly tweaking it, I‘d rather start from scratch.
EZDrummer is, however, exactly addressing this. All samples are somewhat pre-processed and it’s way easier to dial in the right amount of processing, e.g. you have simple knobs with „punch“ or „EQ“ or „compression“ on it which you can dial in easily while playing alone with you guitar, for example.
SD3 is for musicians who actually want to have the legwork. 😉
Great video! I got a question. What VST do you recommend nowadays for someone that plays metal/rock on their edrum kit?
It depends on your needs and how good you are at mixing and processing the audio. If you just want to jam along on your edrum kit, I‘d recommend EZDrummer2 or Steven Slate Drums 5. Both sound great right out of the box and you get some very nice expansion packs especially for metal and hard rock
Hey Mike, quick side question for you. I'm bringing in the raw audio from SD3 into Pro tools and I noticed especially on my Kick in, out and Sneap kick (X-kick) that the phase between all three samples are not completely aligned. As a test i took the kick out and phase inverted the sample and noticed that the sound got more punchy. I know there a time align feature in SD3. I typically do not use presets as I want to do all mixing and processing in PT. Do you encounter the same issue ? Do you time align in SD3 or your DAW for say kick. + snare when using multiple mics ?
thanks so much,
Steve
Hi Steve, I do check the Phase every single time before I start to mix. It’s just part of my routine, whether I use samples or live drums. When you look at some of the presets from the core library of SD3, you’ll notice that even George Massenburg, who recorded this library, used phase switching on some room mics.
@@MikeLuke Thanks so much!!
I've been considering getting SD3 for years but I'm a novice when it comes to production work so i don't think I'm quite ready for it so i will stick to my GGD libraries for now and master those and get an understanding for the basics before drowning my self in this monster software...one day tho :)
How are you feeling about GGD? Wanna try it out, but they don't do demos, and I'm afraid it won't work for a versatile array of genres.
Hey Mike! I saw recently in a Superior Drum ad that the “cowbell” was actually part of the pictured drum kit. Up to now if I’m using cowbell in the kit I’ve selected, the actually cowbell icon/picture appears in a “floating” box above the drum set GUI. Do you know if it’s possible to now place the cowbell in the kit itself?? Thanks in advance!!
The only Superior Drummer package with a cowbell placed on the kick drum, is the Legacy of rock SDX, as far as I know...
Klaus Agerbo thanks for that info. I think it would be cool if any “instrument” could have the option to be placed within the kit. Maybe Toontrack could implement this in a future update.
Yes you were always able to do this
More cowbell !!
I think you can achieve everything when you are an engineer but is not that easy when you are a composer and you just need great drums for you compositions.
I'm not an engineer by any means but can get great results with SD3 default library. Composing, producing or just jamming.
hi. I didnt understand how you send the mics to your daw for more editing and and send it back to sd3. Greetings from the netherlands )
I did not send them back. The signal‘s coming from SD3 into my DAW and is processed there.
I am not a pro , im doing drumming as a hobby on my iPad, recently got SD3 and yes I am an amateur but I have used tons of drum apps and I love music and it interest me a lot and this program is the best simulator or ok production program if u want😅 I have ever come across, I don’t understand what people are not liking about the core library, I love it and just now I discovered I have missed a ton of downloads so if this is the basic pack without lots of mics and shit I can’t wait to hear the result when I have gotten it all in on my external hard drive 🤩 I don’t know if I misunderstand you but in my opinion everyone can use this, if you are curious enough like me and interested to learn so go on , i for sure haven’t regretted this decision of buying this 🤩🤩😍😍🥁🥁
👍👍👍
SD3 is so powerful if you take the time to learn how to use it. There's just one thing about this SDX core library that got me haven't purchased it yet is the sample rate of 44.1kHz. So, I wonder if me project session is 48kHz or 96kHz, would this library still work? in term of not distorting or changing the quality of the sample?
You can use SD3 inside a DAW with a different sample rate and you won‘t hear any distortion. SD3 comes with 24bit, which is the more important value after all.
So for someone who owns Legacy of Rock, Decades and Death & Darkness is the core library any good anymore? I am thinking of making some 240gb room on my SSD 😏
Well, you need to have the core library installed in order to run all those expansions. At least the absolute minimum installation. But yeah, you probably won‘t need the full installation of SD3.
@@MikeLuke Hey Mike. Thnx for replying. So I just installed SD3 without the core library. Launched it and loaded the libraries I wanted and set a kit as default. I doubt I will ever need the core with Legacy, Decades & Death. Even those 3 are overkill really imo since I never use presets anyway. Just for the kits. Cheers! :)
The fundamental issue I have is exactly what you mentioned. The room itself is just too big to be fat, punchy and bone dry. I get why these VSTs err on the side of too big over too small - they are catering to people who want big sounds that are actually naturally big and not fake reverbs/simulators. Those of us who want it very small can play with envelopes, or turn down the room sound, or whatever to make it sound smaller. But whether you are making it sound bigger or smaller artificially, the problem is that the fundamental samples are not a match with what you are trying to accomplish. Processing of envelopes should ideally be minimal and the room it was recorded in should match what you are trying to accomplish. The "tight/dry" presets only have a couple that actually sound dry and tight. I just don't think SD3 matches what I am looking for until they come out with a pack focused on dampened drums recorded in a tiny room for a true 70s/early 80s sound.
I do agree. However, over the years Toontrack has released some expansion packs to match the needs you described: Custom & Vintage SDX (still one of the best sounding ever!), Indiependent SDX or one of three rooms in the „Rooms of Hansa“ SDX. And, what many don’t know: all EZX (EZDrummer expansions) work within the SD3 host software - as these are cheaper, they can be a nice addition to one‘s library.
Doesn't SD3 have mix presets?
Im using BFD3 and I like it but some of the kits in SD3 are amazing, the yamaha kit is an absolute beast and the ayotte kit is awesome when you use the envelopes to dampen the reverb in the room mics. If I started actually making alot more money id happily grab sd3, the cymbals still sound a little sampley sometimes but they do on every software. The whole weak argument makes no sense to me because it sounds like a really nice kit, just add a few plugins and they can be super punchy. If you need processed samples add some ez drummer kits and supplement them. I mix drum libraries from scratch though, for the preset e drum guys defs not bfd3 or sd3 tbh.
I still use the core library. I always try to find a kit that fits the best to my song. So if it is a kit from the core library I will use it. 90% of the time I mix the sound in Reaper. I only change the offset envelope almost every time in SD3 because of the never ending sound of the toms you. Also mentioned in this video. Stay safe Mike, Huub is an excellent drummer by the way 👍👊😎🍺
Thanks so much for watching, dear Rob.
Getting up to speed on SD3 now. Really powerful system. Strange not seeing much in the edit window since most stuff is staying in the SD3 DAW section.
Do you recommend a good YT channel for EZbass?
I don't know if there's a dedicated channel for EZBass. Just search the term "EZBass" in RUclips, there are some really good tutorials online here.
@@MikeLuke Loads of them on youtube... not many compare to your tutorials. I am still looking for good ones. Thank you for all the cool videos. Those got me up to speed in no time!
Big problem too is that most drummers that are using sd3 and complaining are just drummers that honestly are beginers (no technique, no understanding of the ergonomics of the kit, no understanding of how you should get sound of an acoustic kit, groove, independence, etc) and they complain because is easier to do that than to study the instrument or literally just practicing. Sorry but someone has to say it for once.
I think it's terrible calling people lazy just becuase they don't wish to spend the majority of their time doing a particular thing. Logic would presume they are protitising their time based on their needs.
Little point spending time on something if it has little impact on your goals.
That drummer loves to CRASH cymbals. I don´t...Way too busy playing, but the sounds are great otherwise.
I prefer unprocessed drums..for that is how a real drum sounds..period
Hi From Italy. A Question:I have set some parameters in SD3 gospel such as level, tuning smoothing etc....and I would like to save this to also use on other sets such as rock foundry, progressive foundry etc....how can I do so as not to work on this every time? Thank you
Hi, unfortunately this is not possible. The presets are only for the library you are currently working with. So you have to save each preset at a time. The only settings that work globally are, for example, settings for your e-drums or external MIDI controller.