To elaborate: Java modding can never be prevented, due to _the very nature of the Java programming language itself._ It's trivial to decompile and guaranteed to byte-for-byte recompile back into existing code, and even when obfuscated, you just have to cross-reference blocks of code in newer and older versions, be like "hey, abc:foo() has the same structure in 1.21 that BlockRendererFactory:cullHiddenFaces() does in 1.20, so it's probably named the same", like a giant crossword puzzle. In fact, this is how Java Edition modding has _always_ been since the very beginning, having "deobfuscation maps" just makes the process _easier._ If they double down and remove deobf maps, Java modders will be like "Oh no! Anyway..." and go back to the old method of manually solving. Mods will take longer to be updated due to needing to wait for the deobf group (Minecraft Coder Pack, back in the Beta days) to fully "solve" the names, but it'll still be business as usual. There is _nothing_ that Mojang Redmond (Microsoft) can order Mojang Sweden (OG Mojang) to do to Java Edition that will make modding "impossible" _(laughs in deleting META-INF),_ Java itself guarantees there's a way. *_That isn't the case for Bedrock Edition._* As anyone who's watched a video about Nintendo 64 decomps is aware, decompiling C++ into a functional recompileable (and moddable!) form is a significant pain in the mushrooms. You _need_ to give the decompiler notes about which chunks of machine code mean what and where they are, for it to spit out anything remotely functional (let alone readable as C++ instead of massive barf-blobs of assembly). _That is what PDB maps are for,_ in this context. It's _possible_ to go without them, but it's a massive pain, and even if you don't deliberately modify anything, what you recompile is _not_ guaranteed to work the same as the original (again, look how much effort it took to get Mario 64 to byte-for-byte recompile back into the original ROM).
So what I'm hearing from this is that for Java (the edition I play) it's business as usual and bedrock (the edition I could not give a single shit about) is in trouble ? Fine by me lmao
yea bedrock beintg made in C++ makes obfuscating easier and easier java is a mess but its also hell to obfuscate...not so with C++ hence why bedrocks on it....after all killing modding drives up marketplace sales making microsoft $$$$$$ which makes their share value go up...which makes their execs very happy
Yea, can't be sure about actually teaming up When some of the Java players just don't care bc they won't even touch bedrock version bc of some awful features (microtransactions for mods + critical bugs like Steve's heart attacks out of nowhere), bedrock players run petition for worsening modding process for Java modders (clown move) with 200+ votes
Embrace: "We love modding!" Extend: "We made our own little modding thing, its called the marketplace!" Extinguish: "To improve security and to move towards a safer future for modding, we're removing PDB debugging information from the release."
What Microsoft says: "We are removing the PDB file due to the security concerns" What Microsoft really says: "Mo ney moneymon eym ONE ymon eym on eym oneymone ymoneymo"
Especially when we there will inevitably be people reuploading others work as if it’s their own because who cares about supporting the original creators, not Microsoft. :D
Bedrock modders were lucky even have a pdb file. Most games wouldn't even provide a pdb file and modders would have to reverse engineer the game from scratch. Go look at Geometry Dash modding as an example, the modding community (Geode) have created their own "bindings" which give names to the functions of the game. They have to document all of this from scratch, they never had a pdb.
@@ReboTheVaporeon Not everyone can use a PC and even if they have a PC, Java is much harder to run on weak hardware so Bedrock is their only option. It isn't the players fault for the micro-transactions.
2:53 "security reasons" is generally a poor excuse, since it's basically arguing for security by obscurity. The lack of debug symbols does not make it impossible to reverse engineer and figure out what's going on under the hood of compiled software, it just makes it more difficult and time consuming. Security by obscurity is generally frowned upon because it's not *really* improving security by any meaningful extent, it just has decent odds of making it take a bit longer to find those security holes, which is a bad solution in comparison to simply dedicating more time into *actual* security practices like more rigorous pen testing and code review. So at best, security by obscurity is just a band-aid over poor management practices because they either can't, or don't want to put in adequate resources into cybersecurity and ensuring code has been well designed, well reviewed, and well tested before shipping.
That Oh its a security issue is just a blatant excuse because it's not all about keeping people protected from malicious people but it's a form of control
Most of the time when a company like Microsoft does something for "security," it's 90% for something that makes more money, or allows them to do something else that makes more money. Remember: The most secure way to run a service is to disconnect it from everything and prevent users from doing anything. Security needs to be weighed against the cost of making software less useful, which is something that seems to be left out of their explanations.
In cat and mouse games like piracy or cheating making things more obscure is a valid strategy as there is no way to permanently fix it. The goal is to make the cost of doing so as high as possible. It is only frowned upon when it is possible to employ a solution that has a practically infinite cost to break because adding additional cost to something that is already infinite is not worth it compared to other benefits that may be available.
If I remember correctly, not that long ago, they started to force a storage location shift of saved worlds. As I found out, I got to re-import the worlds into the game, just to repeat it after every time I run a cache cleaner app. Before they forced it, cache cleaners didn't affect the worlds or other localy stored data.
@@NEPR-7 This isn't Microsoft nor Mojang's fault. It's Android. It was forced because of increased Android restrictions on newer versions (10+), particularly about "Shared Storage" being inaccessible to apps without the user granting it deliberately via SAF (aka Storage Access Framework) or the two other types of "Files Permission" you can request from Android. This was done to increase the security of the sandbox for all Android apps. It basically makes ransomware impossible unless you're a total idiot. Non-file explorer apps are not allowed to request any permissions for Files access other than through SAF under the Play Store rules. This means no more using /storage/emulated/0/games/com.mojang/ to save your worlds. In fact, the only reason you're even able to import your worlds from there to the new save location (which is Android/data which you can access via ADB or a SAF bypass in Android 13 and below) is because Android permitted read-only access to it to help transition apps to the new standards. SAF is very annoying and confusing to use for end-users so I can see why they chose the more permanent and intended route that Android wanted app developers to take. Cache cleaner apps are viruses, Android has that built in. Please delete them, they're useless. Cache has a reason to exist, do not delete them willynilly.
@@NEPR-7This is Android's fault. They forced all apps to save non-sensitive userdata in "Android/data" and disallowed access to the "Shared Storage" which is /storage/emulated/0/ To help devs transition, they allowed them read-only access to any data their app saved in "Shared Storage" If Minecraft didnt do this, they'd be taken off the app store
For everyone concerned about this happening to Java: *this is why Yarn mappings exist.* If you're a modder, and you're worried about Mojang Mappings disappearing next, *switch to Yarn!*
That may be a reason why bedrock exists aswell. Microsoft has WAY more control over bedrock than java, they legit can't do anything to the later one. Even chat report was quickly worked around and dismantled by the community
@@revival_of_the_canned_justiceYarn is a completely free (as in freedom) set of de-obfuscations for Minecraft Java, maintained by the Fabric team but (IIRC) available to Forge mods as well.
I've seen some clowns in replies of other comments but not much, the actual good Java Players who cares about Bedrock Modding are outnumbering Rude Java Players by a Landslide
And, while you’re at it (even though probably nobody here plays the game) go vote to safe TF2, this is the time of the great revolution against the companies and everyone should vote for both this MC thing and for TF2
It still has the same Eula that’s why third party websites like mcpedl can’t allow creators to charge for addons also Java does have paid mods but they are highly frowned upon by the entire community curseforge and etc strictly prohibited paid mods but the creators can still make money on it when the mod is entirely free But the bedrock marketplace completely allows it paid content from an official Microsoft service that’s why it doesn’t go against the EULA it would be different if it was on patreon or another third party website
@@hehasnolips1371their frowned apon because you should not mod for the money. It is a passion thing. Game modding is not something you should be able to make money off of. Donations sure maybe but paywalls? Jail. Go to jail.
@@Actvontacti mean why not? Your saying like games should be free because developers are doing it for passion A mod maker puts their time to develop a mod and they do deserve something for it. Id say maybe two version of the mod one free and one premium for like 2$
@@ActvontactLmao. It's our code and we have a full ownership for it. It doesn't matter that it uses mojang apis. It's our code and we call sell it and they will never be able to do anything about it.
@@夢 that is incorrect, Microsoft/mojang has and will go after paid mods that aren't on the marketplace, the physics mod being one example of a once paywalled mod that was forced to be free. this happens with other games as well like skyrim where bethesda will cease and desist anyone paywalling mods.
I am currently sat on the Minecraft Feedback website refreshing the webpage linked in the comments. It is SO satisfying seeing the numbers jump up after every refresh. Keep what doing what you are doing guys, and THANK YOU Phoenix for spreading the awareness. No doubt this surge of votes if because of you, and PLEASE encourage other big RUclipsrs to do the same and make some noise about this issue.
It's gonna amount to nothing. This shit happened with censorship and look where that got us. Give. It. Up. Go focus on real issues instead of issues inside a block game that'll be dead in 10 years.
@@Briskeeen you look like you have some personal "real issues", doing something is better thank doing nothing, and between all the things you could have done to solve the "real issues" you are instead trying to stab a community that's already bleeding out. I don't know what's going on in your life that made you leave all those comments, but still, that's low of you.
@@Briskeeenbit of a morbid example but would you give up trying to save your dying dog because your cat died of the same cause 2 years ago? “Focus on real issues” how do you know that we don’t? You don’t have to be a complete failure in life to care about less important things. Maybe stop projecting and go focus on your issues.
I love how the more and more experienced i get with bedrock modding, the more and more Mojang keeps trying to take away features from it. Are they afraid of me gaining too much power?
this doesnt even make sense like if people who used to play mods are still not gonna pay for addons? if theyre into mods they probably have java edition anyway and will just play that. even if they dont, they still wont pay for addons cuz theyre crappy
The entire website is trash actually. Half the time you make a post there, it gets deleted without any notice as on why this happens. There is a Discord Server somewhere that serves the same function, but I don't know where.
Now, with Minecraft as we know it in its time of need, we are not Bedrock players, we are not Java players, we are Minecraft players. Make sure to do your part and vote
tbf, minecraft should die. Devs are farming millions by doing absolutely nothing. It still isn't enough for them, so they try to farm more, which is sad. That kind of predatory behaviour should be punished with a dead game imo. Don't be pussies and slave your mind for a piece of code anyone can write.
the cool thing is that the feedback site is completely broken and ive havent been able to sign in to the feedback site in months as it just signs you out instantly so i cant even vote on the post
Its exactly how Micro$hit feedback/help works. Give people illusion it is there and when they need it just make it broken so they will shut the f up and you can milk them like cows...
@@RobopRUclips what spam? i just said a generic comment. my profile is also normal, my content isn't amazing, but its definitely not spam. stop smoking that good shit
Mojang dev 1: Let's fix the horrible view bobbing on bedrock! Mojang dev 2: Let's add the legacy Console GUI for console players! Mojang dev 3: Let's add color wheels to the ingame skin editer! Microsoft:
I mean consoles already get enough hate and having Minecraft just adds to the hate that you get. People will mock you and act like you're worthless if you don't have Java and can't buy an expensive gaming computer. You can't download mods, skins, etc. unless they're from the marketplace and it wouldn't really be a problem for me if they could just keep bedrock edition up to date with Java and add some of the updates we've been asking for. And if the hate isn't enough you have Microsoft and Mojang making sure your experience is terrible.
@@Roach292 I don't really know what you just said. It was weirdly structured. But as someone who's played all versions, legacy console, bedrock and java. I just want basic stuff such as a GOOD UI on bedrock.
@StefanoAbruzzi you can't download mods, bedrock is behind on a few minor updates, if you can't get Java or a computer you're basically considered a joke, oh and btw people say Minecraft takes like 2 minutes just to load now on consoles
Yeah same I try to log into Microsoft, it does a bunch of redirects, and tells me I’ve been successfully logged out. I’m going to try clearing my Minecraft feedback cookies, see if that helps
There's a bug report about not being able to log in on the bug tracker. That's why they made a feedback discord server where we have another post with many votes
Minecrafts website sucks for that. It took me 15 minutes to claim the 15y anniversary cape because every time I pressed anything and the page loaded I was logged out and would need to log in again
@@toastergaming7783 Its not 100% microsoft, Microsoft isn't 100% incharge of all these features and you have to understand, Mojang isnt a indie company anymore They are ran by a multi billion dollar company and as such are responsible for alot of their decisions and arent as friendly as you may think, They too just look over how much money they could get, Mojang for instance may not have been in control of the account switching though microsoft still isnt in control of every little thing they do, Alot of the technical things are still on mojang IE Removal of this feature, Anyways this was sent like really late for me so it could be wrong but this is just from what i remember or recall im too tired to do any indepth thing Either way Mojang is just as at fault
@@oliverplougmand2275 I would say people hate what Mojang has become their weird politics affect the game in the dumbest ways, and their laziness is caused by jeb's stupid rules of minecraft. yea we *could* blame microsoft but realistically we should put some blame on mojang
Almost gave up when I learned from the email replies that this was almost inevitable. Thank you for making this video. Using the salmon metaphor is really easy to understand, and the video rekindling my hope that Microsoft will listen to players and revert to the changes, and the Bedrock server community will continue.
It makes me happy to see a Java player fight in the Bedrock players' corner. Also for the modders that are trying to make it a better game. It's normally the other way around so thank you for making a dedicated video for this.
@@redmadness265 I doubt that's gonna be a thing with Rockstar's history... Unless it's another RDR1 kind of thing but those glitches and bugs made it even better.
@@NEPR-7 they aren’t anti modding stop listening to these pro java creators who want to pity bedrock players for content this guy doesn’t care at all he made a whole video complaining on how bugrock is terrible which is true W JAVA but Microsoft is trying to cater to the “modding” community on bedrock but they aren’t doing it correctly I love they are making addons on the marketplace that’s a start I know they are planning to give out the creator tools that marketplace creators have to the public so third party addons can have better limitations on what they can do
Programmer here. When a program is compiled, a lot of information that is only needed by the humans reading and maintaining the code, but not by the computer, is stripped out. The PDB file is a location where some of this stripped out data is stored so for the purposes of debugging (or reverse engineering) some of this lost context can be displayed in a debugging tool. Otherwise it will not be present and it may be more difficult to determine what the program is doing. I don't know exactly how this is relevant to modding, but my guess is they are able to see internal function names that are normally stripped out and this aids in determining where and how to patch the server to add in custom code at the desired locations.
Not a bedrock modder but from what I can gather the “modding API” for bedrock only has a limited amount of functions and most of the stuff people want is obfuscated away (like the ability to mess with items and add new ones). What documentation I found for the bedrock API is that’s it’s more analogous to the command block stuff (so it’s useful for making custom maps and scripted events but not major gameplay overhauls or even simple edits of the crafting system) but I may just about have gotten deep enough haha. For the non programmers out there bedrock was written in C++ and can be distributed without source code. The Java edition is written in Java which is much harder to (destructively) obfuscate the code. This is why all of the modding and multiplayer stuff has been centered around Java (the code is accessible and usable with way less effort).
In the most short terms pdb gives you a pointer to where you messed up and what is at that location, so you know when making changes to something that blows up you get an idea of what the cause might be. Documentation cannot really provide that level of debugging.
thats pretty much it, yeah. I'll also add that in C++, functions and things get jumbled up and mixed together in weird ways. Your "salmon" isn't alone, it's squashed into the same "image" with code that does a whole bunch of other stuff, so it's a lot harder to sort out what bits do what. the original code, while helpful, isn't as important as just borders splitting the code into related chunks, or something outlining those pixels and pointing to it saying "salmon". The suggestion to remove the java documentation is a sarcastic one, java doesn't really have this issue even with it removed, purely due to the nature of java as a programming language. You lose the function names yes, but decompiling java already splits everything into manageable chunks, and you can figure out most of the names from context and matching things to previous versions.
Welp, Minecraft has slid further down the corporate slope. I jumped ship to Vintage Story a couple years ago and I'm glad I did. I really want to check out Minetest too and am patiently waiting for Lay of the Land. Even if Micro$oft physically can't prevent modding on Java, it shows their mindset about the game and how they will treat the community and future updates. Its really sad that this once community driven game is being wrenched from the communities hands and so so many updates that are universally hated have been pushed over the past few years.
I told people they'd start doing this before, but everyone kept glazing Mojang. I'm not happy that I ended up being right. This all came from Microsoft influence. Microsoft influenced the political splash texts and maps they added, and they're influencing monetisation too. I'm not sure if Mojang is even trying to resist it anymore.
The beauty of things like java Minecraft is that, should MS do a VERY big stupid, moders could agree on one of the latest version before the stupid happening, then from that point forward replicate any update Minecraft officially makes to the game via mods, effectively forking the whole game and creating a Libre/Open Office scenario.
and there is a precedent, in a smaller scale modders hard forked beta 1.7 and just carried on development from there, if modders hard fork minecraft at like... 1.25.x for example other things like performance mods could be integrated to the project as well etc, as long as theres no piracy they will struggle a lot to shut down the project
I mean it was the sole purpose of them even creating bedrock edition… why port the moble version of the game back to PC (which already had a version they still support and seems to function better anyways)? It was so they could add micro transactions and this is just a way of furthering that goal.
Marketplace: “Dragons!! Godzilla!! Skinpacks!! Star Wars!?!? Play Minecraft YOUR way!” Me: “please,, just,, a chunk border display,, a spawn radius display, connected glass,, just…maybe setting the worldspawn in the Nether…” Marketplace: “NETHER SKIN PACK!!!”
I rarely play Bedrock... But I feel like I also must help the community. Even if it is only one vote... We might be able to save Bedrock... I didn't even have an MCFB account before... I registered to vote.
The people of the launcher of Amethyst thank you for making such a informative video, since we thought TheMisterEpic's video wasn't as informative about the issue as this is!
who couldeve guessed, a active bedrock mod dev can elaborate the issue clearer than some random gamer that just so ever happens to make video essays about the game
Thank you Pheonix SC for making this video and calling out microsoft for doing something that should be frankly unaccepable. I remember back in sometime like 2010 when I first started to play minecraft and I remeber it being the most magical experience exploring the world. i remeber every update being full of magic as i was able to explore the world without having to consider anything about minecoins or other things. i remember waiting ages for pistons to come out and having no clue what the hell the observer did. i remeber finding a old world with walls build out of nether reactor cores!!! it was a major part of my childhood and i want it to continue that way and by you making this video helps so much to continue to have minecraft be accessable to all who want to have the same experiance of the magic of exploring this world. i know you probs wont read this but thanks anyways
This change will only make security worse, not only will the community security patches be gone, but hackers will be basically uneffected. Modders often work on pure love of a game, while it is possible to continue to mod without the PDB file, itll be very difficult. This isnt an issue for hackers though, hackers are incentivezed by money from selling or running ads on their client website, therefor they will just apply reverse engineering tactics. This is a very stupid change
@@oliverplougmand2275 I mean... yeah? Paying for something when you could get the same thing for free and help support someone's passion project is bad. It's good to save money, and it's good to support smaller creators.
I took almost 2 decades for GTA San Andreas modding community to have some .pdb file for classic GTA San Andreas game (released in 2005). It was leaked a few years ago from a mobile version of the game, but it is so useful that it helps even the PC community. One interesting thing is that we on the community are pretty sure this was purposefully leaked from the Grove Street Studios (porter of mobile version and created of GTA Trilogy remaster), because they leaked A LOT of things for us in the past years (even the full missions and shops source code with compiler), and we know that Rockstar Games would ABSOLUTELY NEVER share .pdb etc. But Grove Street Games loves the modding community, I even indirectly made they release the 2.0 mobile version after years without any release (is a long story, about a very important bug that modders (not me) managed to fix etc).
It would be good if when commenting on this, you shared interesting sites to download bedrock mods and textures like bedrock tweaks or mcpedl, people think that there is only a marketplace and assume that there is no community of creators at bedrock
That’s almost entirely impossible if they want to “mod” the game they need to switch to Java bedrock has too much limitations on things they can do it’s getting better with SCRIPT API and marketplace creators have better limitations on addons and they are one day going to be giving the creative tools that marketplace creators have to the public so it’ll be easier for them to make content like creators on the marketplace can
Idk, Microsoft has too much influence/money/games. I think the Halo community would have done this if they could have. And they trued, a lot of people stopped playing or un-installed, but a big enough mess was never made from the community; the only mess was Microsoft and the new Halo games
Minecraft's playerbase is mostly children or people who are all bark and no bite. Wish this could work, but come on. You'll get 10k people max and then the movement fizzles out and dies on a whimper
@@A_Productionshere's the thing: the reason why microsoft has had said influence for so long is that, ultimately, people have allowed so much of their shenanigans to go through unnoticed and uncontested. it all started with windows and who knows where it will end at. however, there is still hope. right now you can still contest the things that they do, especially when we're at a point where they are at their low with so many choosing to stick to windows 10 and it starts with you helping decrease their OS market share and switching to linux (or macos, preferably the former but your choice).
They want people to pay more money. They could not care less if anyone ever actually played. All the big publishers are like that. A typical indy dev wants people to play and enjoy the thing they made. If the AAAs could just take money without having to ever make anything, they would do it.
A similar thing has existed in java up until very recently when Mojang began providing their own official obfuscation mappings. Minecraft Java edition code is not publicly available because in the past it was necessary to prevent people from making copies but copies of Minecraft exist regardless now which makes you question why they'd keep the code secret anymore. Anyways, to avoid people decompiling the game and figuring out what the code does, Mojang applies obfuscation to various aspects of the game code which makes it more difficult to read. Java modders in the past fixed this issue by inventing the MCP obfuscation mappings by reading the obfuscated code themselves, collectively, and assembling the MCP. They then deobfuscate the game code in the development environment and obfuscate the mods in release. The PDB files are basically the Microsoft provided obfuscation mappings for bedrock. Without them, the bedrock community will need to create their own mappings like java modders did many many years ago. There really is no security vulnerability in having the code be exposed plainly, malicious modders will simply create their own PDBs anyways.
The difference is that decompiling Java is pretty straightforward. I can open any .jar in IntelliJ IDEA and get a decent enough representation of the code (though with obfuscation, things will be randomly named like AzB1Ky or something). With C++ it's extremely difficult.
@@levence643-- I think that's how Java modding has worked forever, so since 2009. The Java programming language makes deobfuscation rather easy though, C++/C# is a lot harder.
@@TlalocTemporalJava is relatively easy to decompile because it isn't fully compiled in the first place. It's part-compiled to an intermediate language, which gets interpreted by the Java runtime into machine code. C# is similar - it's why Unity games often have mods incredibly shortly after launch. The code still has information needed for decompilation, as this is needed for it to be compiled from the intermediate to machine code. C++ is compiled directly to machine code. This gives some benefits like better performance, but it also means that all information not useful for program and execution is completely removed. Normally, for debugging purposes, this information is stored in a PDB file to help the developers to debug the program - but these files are rarely actually shipped with the program, and hence decompiling C++ is difficult.
@@Chocice75 -- Ah, I didn't realize that C# and C++ were different in this, interesting. Ostensibly, Pocket edition/Bedrock was written in C++ for performance reasons. Is this loading/startup performance, or does the code being fully compiled somehow grant better runtime performance?
lol theres already TONS of hackers in the bedrocks servers like hive, cubecraft, and some in galaxite, i dont even play hive anymore cuz its just awful
I get that microsoft/mojang wants to make bedrock the "corporate" version. But every time they do it its aways at a major cost. Mainly in player freedom and control over important things. At least java is and aways will be here. Let me explain: Its pretty much the only advertised version Its the version with the marketplace, sponsors, "DLC-s", ugc and revenue stream Its the version with the "intended" features(aka not that many buggy or old things like the furnace minecart and quasi-connectivity) Its the version out on everything, probably even inluding woodchippers and ovens And its also the version that is the most "polished"(that is if you ignore the billion and one bugs that make it into the "thats all we have" version)
@@tftc97 What he means to say is "corporate version"-sanitized and monetized. Microsoft can't generate shareholder profit from Java aside from accounts, and they lack the kind of control in keeping up appearances a publicly traded company desires over its products. Even the former struggles since Java is so easily portable, see Eaglercraft. Microsoft has been trying to kill Java since the day they bought it for these two fundamental reasons.
I didn't think this was a serious concern because of TheMisterMister's of cringe video title. Thanks for re-iterating the subject in a less repulsive manner.
Oh, a feedback page vote! I am sure that (even if it STILL doesn't let me log in or search anything) it will definitely do something, just like in the case of copper bulb that is currently at 1739 votes! It's made for a feedback after all, is it not?
This will literally kill bedrock edition is they don’t add it back. I mean it could ruin servers all together at some point which will drive people to just making worlds and eventually they will get bored so they move to Java realizing they wasted money on bedrock Edition.
Not only Renderdragon preventing HAL shaders and having a phone not powerful enough for deferred rendering shaders is why I use the old MCBE/PE 1.18.12 version, but because of mod suppression in future updates too.
@@Terrazonalso the same people who rallied against the site changing its underlying API, and ultimately failed because all reddit had to do was threaten moderators' positions and they eventually just caved lol.
Let's say something straight. Security by obscurity is antipattern, and should not be used because it makes software actually more vulnreable. If people has access to source they can pentest it, debug it, find and report vulnerabilities. Look for open source software or bug bounty programs.
@@t-pos that wouldn't make Microsoft any money so it sucks for them, they just want to Milk 9 yo's Parents' Money playing on their stupid consoles in the name of custom stuff so they can make profit off of it
Yep, it might be (nearly) impossible to ever stop java modding due to nature of Java itself, while what happened here to BE is what I believed would happen from the very start.
Hello! Sorry to bother you. I'm one of the members of Chinese Minecraft translator group. The news that mojang will stop providing pdb file is not widely spread in Chinese Minecraft community and there are many persons don't realize how important it is. So I want to translate your video of removing pdb file and repost it on bilibili without any profit to let more people know the news and vote the feedback and leave the comments.😢
This only affects bedrock atm not the Chinese version which is only licensed from Microsoft... That said wouldn't be surprised if Netease followed suit... 2 versions later.
@@chdreturns netease version of china bedrock has no BDS. and the client is actually packed with WinLicense .. a DRM anti tamper bullshit scheme thats .. relatively easy to get around. but ppl in china just download the regular bedrock edition
Java doesn't work the same way... They can do things that will ruin the game sure. But it can't be next for this kind of thing. He did his best to explain what the output difference is between the C++ code and java. But to be extra clear, decompiling C++ leaves almost 0 name and text information used to identify stuff for modders. Java basically keeps all of it. So Java can't get screwed like this.
@@SquintyGears Also it would be like shooting yourself in the foot from a business perspective, as around 50% when not even more of java players are using mods.
the thing that Mojang probably does (I hope not) is to funnel the Java player to bedrock with many QoL and, at worst, stop updating Java for future updates ...
It's crazy how they're saying it's to "stop hacked clients" ignoring that all its gonna do is make hacked clients both cost more to buy and be more complicated.
@@ShadowEclipse777 Incorrect. Bedrock has mods too. Check out Project Amethyst. They mostly revolve around fixing exploits, but there are also "F3" mods and other QoL enhancements that aren't possible via datapacks. Heck, there are even shaders!
I hate the marketplace. There's practically no quality control, and I'm highly skeptical that the creators have permission to use the IPs for their skin packs and other content. Add-ons often break when used in regular worlds. The character customization is underwhelming; I would have preferred something like Essential on Java, where you can buy cosmetics for your existing skin. It's really disappointing because a system like this could have been a great way for creators to profit from mods. Instead, it's garbage-filled cash grab and Microsoft is fully aware of it.
The funny thing is that for Java, when mojang startet releasing deobfuscated names most modders kept using the reverse engineered deobfuscation because it just had better variable naming. I dont know if that's still the case tho
Ah yes, can't wait for people who have a fight about java is better to bring this up. Also, wow, ever since this video was uploaded, already votes are going into the feedback page like hundreds of votes in 5 minutes!
Yeah that kinda happened before when bedrock has a feature where if any entity step on top of a campfire it got burned instead of just half of heart damage/s.. And then as you expected mojang removed them as "parity" to java and also called them a "bug"
I fear this could be a reality sooner than we might think. They have been pushing parody features on bedrock all of a sudden Why add hardcore mode to bedrock when we all know how many ways to die due to bugs there are.
phoenix is in Australia right..? it’s 4:30am here. is phoenix a member of the bad sleep cycle gang, or is he automatically posting for murican engagement?
If he's posting early for our sake, I'm honored, but I think he should get some sleep instead. No one should burn themselves out for others unless they really want to do something for them.
@@tzarg I know you can do that, I just keep forgetting that I'm the only person who schedules my crap to be posted within the hour. Thank you for reminding me, though.
I have lost my faith for Mojang (Aka. Microsoft) a long time ago. Like when they enforced the use of Microsoft accounts. I really just want to forget this game and never see it again.
@@aerobiesizer3968 ...after being hated on for decisions he didn't make. He wasn't ousted, however I'd say it was pretty unfair. But whatever, it still only went downhill from there.
Totally agree. I would like to see Minecraft shatter just so I could never look back at that shithole. Then, many millions of players like me will be free to search the gaming world for other great games too.
Another example of bedrock's DRM hurting it's paying player base while creating another benefit for free piracy/hacked that legitimate paid users don't get....
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
To elaborate: Java modding can never be prevented, due to _the very nature of the Java programming language itself._ It's trivial to decompile and guaranteed to byte-for-byte recompile back into existing code, and even when obfuscated, you just have to cross-reference blocks of code in newer and older versions, be like "hey, abc:foo() has the same structure in 1.21 that BlockRendererFactory:cullHiddenFaces() does in 1.20, so it's probably named the same", like a giant crossword puzzle. In fact, this is how Java Edition modding has _always_ been since the very beginning, having "deobfuscation maps" just makes the process _easier._ If they double down and remove deobf maps, Java modders will be like "Oh no! Anyway..." and go back to the old method of manually solving. Mods will take longer to be updated due to needing to wait for the deobf group (Minecraft Coder Pack, back in the Beta days) to fully "solve" the names, but it'll still be business as usual. There is _nothing_ that Mojang Redmond (Microsoft) can order Mojang Sweden (OG Mojang) to do to Java Edition that will make modding "impossible" _(laughs in deleting META-INF),_ Java itself guarantees there's a way.
*_That isn't the case for Bedrock Edition._* As anyone who's watched a video about Nintendo 64 decomps is aware, decompiling C++ into a functional recompileable (and moddable!) form is a significant pain in the mushrooms. You _need_ to give the decompiler notes about which chunks of machine code mean what and where they are, for it to spit out anything remotely functional (let alone readable as C++ instead of massive barf-blobs of assembly). _That is what PDB maps are for,_ in this context. It's _possible_ to go without them, but it's a massive pain, and even if you don't deliberately modify anything, what you recompile is _not_ guaranteed to work the same as the original (again, look how much effort it took to get Mario 64 to byte-for-byte recompile back into the original ROM).
Thank you
Its the difference between using some random software to get a decomp in a week vs effectively rebuilding the game from scratch
So what I'm hearing from this is that for Java (the edition I play) it's business as usual and bedrock (the edition I could not give a single shit about) is in trouble ?
Fine by me lmao
yea bedrock beintg made in C++ makes obfuscating easier and easier java is a mess but its also hell to obfuscate...not so with C++ hence why bedrocks on it....after all killing modding drives up marketplace sales making microsoft $$$$$$ which makes their share value go up...which makes their execs very happy
I hate the java programming language but in this particular case it's a godsend.
microsoft try not to screw over bedrock for one second (impossible)
Microsoft try not to be hated by any gamers that play their games
Difficulty: hardcore (bedrock edition)
@@aydencahoon6557 Since when does Bedrock Edition have Hardcore mode?
That's why bedrock doesn't have hard-core, Microsoft has taken it
@@Shy_Abi since at least 04/05/2024!
true
you know shit gets real when the java and bedrock communities team up
I guess when it comes to Microsoft (NOT Mojang), it's a temporary truce between the two
@@SSS4realnofake Java: We trade one villian for another
Doesn't really seem like it to me...
nah, It's much more like:
Bedrock: Please Mojang, hear us!
Java: Sucks to suck!
Yea, can't be sure about actually teaming up
When some of the Java players just don't care bc they won't even touch bedrock version bc of some awful features (microtransactions for mods + critical bugs like Steve's heart attacks out of nowhere), bedrock players run petition for worsening modding process for Java modders (clown move) with 200+ votes
Embrace: "We love modding!"
Extend: "We made our own little modding thing, its called the marketplace!"
Extinguish: "To improve security and to move towards a safer future for modding, we're removing PDB debugging information from the release."
Just like they did many times...
The slippery slope fallacy ain't a fallacy
Their signature strat, at full work
Just like they did with... everything.
It's honestly a testament to Mojang's independence as a studio that this didn't happen years ago.
Mojang: Let's balance Java and Bedrock!
Mojang two minutes later:
LMAO
Report the bot for spam and move on, do not engage.
@@frowner_and_co Already have
@VECTRONANGRYASRIELWORSHIPPERYF reported for child abuse, the fbi will be at your house soon
@@frowner_and_cocouldn't have said it better myself
What Microsoft says: "We are removing the PDB file due to the security concerns"
What Microsoft really says: "Mo ney moneymon eym ONE ymon eym on eym oneymone ymoneymo"
Hahaha! ONE!
the "Vince McMahon" smelling money meme
*mojang
Microsoft never fails to disappoint
money is all they want
They want the marketplace to be the only way to get "mods"
my eBay computer won’t let me get mods anyways lol
Mcpedl
No, microsoft is greedy. No way your trying to make minecraft editions wars a thing.@@Cry_ct
@VECTRONANGRYASRIELWORSHIPPERYF Spammer scammer lol
@VECTRONANGRYASRIELWORSHIPPERYF Spammer scammer you are being rn
I FUCKING LOVE THE MARKETPLACE!!! I LOVE HAVING TO PAY FOR THINGS THAT ARE USUALLY FREE!!!
HELL YEAH!!! DOESN'T EVERYONE??
you can still get free add-ons, maps, skins and texture packs outside the marketplace, it's just native modding having issues
It’s my favorite part of Minecraft 🥰🥰🥰
Ok Mr. Capitalism
I FUCKING LOVE BEING UNABLE TO USE GUNPOWDER ON SERVERS
That comment is terrifying
“Towards a real modding environment” is corporate speak for “towards a modding environment we control”
Yup
They already showed that they wanted control with the chat reporting and gun mod bans. They just took it to the next level
Paying 20$ for a "mod" that adds like 3 items and 2 mobs is gonna be so fun
Meanwhile Java playing all the mods over 200 mods at once with tons of content quality of life and fun all for the low low price of FREEEEEEE
@@jacobmaitland3613
Mcpedl exist, even if they aren't the lvl of Java, they are still better than the marketplace.
Especially when we there will inevitably be people reuploading others work as if it’s their own because who cares about supporting the original creators, not Microsoft. :D
@@JADE-vw3ffYeah
@@JADE-vw3ff That will also not be possible anymore, all of that will be blocked for Bedrock
I feel bad for the bedrock modders. Bring PDB files in bedrock back, they don't deserve this!
They do deserve it, that's what they get for playing the minecraft microtransaction edition
@@ReboTheVaporeon you do know that bedrock players outnumber us by like 3:1 right?
Bedrock modders were lucky even have a pdb file. Most games wouldn't even provide a pdb file and modders would have to reverse engineer the game from scratch. Go look at Geometry Dash modding as an example, the modding community (Geode) have created their own "bindings" which give names to the functions of the game. They have to document all of this from scratch, they never had a pdb.
@@ReboTheVaporeon Not everyone can use a PC and even if they have a PC, Java is much harder to run on weak hardware so Bedrock is their only option. It isn't the players fault for the micro-transactions.
@@Proferk whats your point
2:53 "security reasons" is generally a poor excuse, since it's basically arguing for security by obscurity. The lack of debug symbols does not make it impossible to reverse engineer and figure out what's going on under the hood of compiled software, it just makes it more difficult and time consuming. Security by obscurity is generally frowned upon because it's not *really* improving security by any meaningful extent, it just has decent odds of making it take a bit longer to find those security holes, which is a bad solution in comparison to simply dedicating more time into *actual* security practices like more rigorous pen testing and code review. So at best, security by obscurity is just a band-aid over poor management practices because they either can't, or don't want to put in adequate resources into cybersecurity and ensuring code has been well designed, well reviewed, and well tested before shipping.
That's why he says it's good thing that they have a way to de-obfuscate it IMMEDIATELY afterwards.
That Oh its a security issue is just a blatant excuse because it's not all about keeping people protected from malicious people but it's a form of control
So they're just like MasterLock now
Most of the time when a company like Microsoft does something for "security," it's 90% for something that makes more money, or allows them to do something else that makes more money. Remember: The most secure way to run a service is to disconnect it from everything and prevent users from doing anything. Security needs to be weighed against the cost of making software less useful, which is something that seems to be left out of their explanations.
In cat and mouse games like piracy or cheating making things more obscure is a valid strategy as there is no way to permanently fix it. The goal is to make the cost of doing so as high as possible.
It is only frowned upon when it is possible to employ a solution that has a practically infinite cost to break because adding additional cost to something that is already infinite is not worth it compared to other benefits that may be available.
I'd like to add that custom terrain generation has been broken in bedrock for nearly four years now and hasn't been addressed at all.
If I remember correctly, not that long ago, they started to force a storage location shift of saved worlds. As I found out, I got to re-import the worlds into the game, just to repeat it after every time I run a cache cleaner app. Before they forced it, cache cleaners didn't affect the worlds or other localy stored data.
Recently, it affects localy stored custom skins too
Correct
@@NEPR-7 This isn't Microsoft nor Mojang's fault. It's Android.
It was forced because of increased Android restrictions on newer versions (10+), particularly about "Shared Storage" being inaccessible to apps without the user granting it deliberately via SAF (aka Storage Access Framework) or the two other types of "Files Permission" you can request from Android. This was done to increase the security of the sandbox for all Android apps. It basically makes ransomware impossible unless you're a total idiot.
Non-file explorer apps are not allowed to request any permissions for Files access other than through SAF under the Play Store rules.
This means no more using /storage/emulated/0/games/com.mojang/ to save your worlds. In fact, the only reason you're even able to import your worlds from there to the new save location (which is Android/data which you can access via ADB or a SAF bypass in Android 13 and below) is because Android permitted read-only access to it to help transition apps to the new standards.
SAF is very annoying and confusing to use for end-users so I can see why they chose the more permanent and intended route that Android wanted app developers to take.
Cache cleaner apps are viruses, Android has that built in. Please delete them, they're useless. Cache has a reason to exist, do not delete them willynilly.
@@NEPR-7This is Android's fault. They forced all apps to save non-sensitive userdata in "Android/data" and disallowed access to the "Shared Storage" which is /storage/emulated/0/
To help devs transition, they allowed them read-only access to any data their app saved in "Shared Storage"
If Minecraft didnt do this, they'd be taken off the app store
For everyone concerned about this happening to Java: *this is why Yarn mappings exist.* If you're a modder, and you're worried about Mojang Mappings disappearing next, *switch to Yarn!*
That may be a reason why bedrock exists aswell. Microsoft has WAY more control over bedrock than java, they legit can't do anything to the later one. Even chat report was quickly worked around and dismantled by the community
Wtf is yarn
Just you wait until they find a way around yarn 💀 like it or not, you're fucked too. Its just a matter of time for Java.
@@revival_of_the_canned_justiceYarn is a completely free (as in freedom) set of de-obfuscations for Minecraft Java, maintained by the Fabric team but (IIRC) available to Forge mods as well.
@@Integrous_Melodiesthen the modders will bypass that as well probably.
Im glad all the comments arent "haha bedrock L this is why Java is better" and people are genuinely caring over this issue.
You haven’t scrolled down enough these people could care less they are just a pity party and then convince them to get Java edition
Bedrock Minecraft is cheaper and more Convenient for a lot of people
Plus Its Portable
@@Mr.Brothybear get a steam deck than Java is also portable
I've seen some clowns in replies of other comments but not much, the actual good Java Players who cares about Bedrock Modding are outnumbering Rude Java Players by a Landslide
@@hehasnolips1371 Ah Yes With the $400 That everyone definitely has
Guys lets go all vote!!! THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, its gonna be like RenderDragon again, shaders dissapeared and bugs took over :(
E
Shaders are coming back tho, it’s just under a different name “deferred rendering”
Its been years
And, while you’re at it (even though probably nobody here plays the game) go vote to safe TF2, this is the time of the great revolution against the companies and everyone should vote for both this MC thing and for TF2
@@emilydavidson8844fr?
0:01 R.I.P salmon.
Its not making Fishton sounds so its dead.
@DontReadMyPicture00 Too bad pfps don't load for me
@@13feedo same
and big salmon nonetheless
@DontReadMyPicture00ratio
Im blind @DontReadMyPicture00
We're so lucky Notch allowed mods and skins on Java to be free and fully custom. I wish Microsoft would respect that choice on Bedrock
It still has the same Eula that’s why third party websites like mcpedl can’t allow creators to charge for addons also Java does have paid mods but they are highly frowned upon by the entire community curseforge and etc strictly prohibited paid mods but the creators can still make money on it when the mod is entirely free
But the bedrock marketplace completely allows it paid content from an official Microsoft service that’s why it doesn’t go against the EULA it would be different if it was on patreon or another third party website
@@hehasnolips1371their frowned apon because you should not mod for the money. It is a passion thing. Game modding is not something you should be able to make money off of. Donations sure maybe but paywalls? Jail. Go to jail.
@@Actvontacti mean why not? Your saying like games should be free because developers are doing it for passion
A mod maker puts their time to develop a mod and they do deserve something for it. Id say maybe two version of the mod one free and one premium for like 2$
@@ActvontactLmao. It's our code and we have a full ownership for it. It doesn't matter that it uses mojang apis. It's our code and we call sell it and they will never be able to do anything about it.
@@夢 that is incorrect, Microsoft/mojang has and will go after paid mods that aren't on the marketplace, the physics mod being one example of a once paywalled mod that was forced to be free. this happens with other games as well like skyrim where bethesda will cease and desist anyone paywalling mods.
I am currently sat on the Minecraft Feedback website refreshing the webpage linked in the comments. It is SO satisfying seeing the numbers jump up after every refresh. Keep what doing what you are doing guys, and THANK YOU Phoenix for spreading the awareness. No doubt this surge of votes if because of you, and PLEASE encourage other big RUclipsrs to do the same and make some noise about this issue.
It's gonna amount to nothing. This shit happened with censorship and look where that got us. Give. It. Up. Go focus on real issues instead of issues inside a block game that'll be dead in 10 years.
@@Briskeeen "Go focus on real issues instead of animals where they'll be dead in 15 years." shut up bro
@@Briskeeen you look like you have some personal "real issues", doing something is better thank doing nothing, and between all the things you could have done to solve the "real issues" you are instead trying to stab a community that's already bleeding out.
I don't know what's going on in your life that made you leave all those comments, but still, that's low of you.
@Briskeeeen why are you here if you hate the game
@@Briskeeenbit of a morbid example but would you give up trying to save your dying dog because your cat died of the same cause 2 years ago?
“Focus on real issues” how do you know that we don’t? You don’t have to be a complete failure in life to care about less important things. Maybe stop projecting and go focus on your issues.
I love how the more and more experienced i get with bedrock modding, the more and more Mojang keeps trying to take away features from it.
Are they afraid of me gaining too much power?
Yeah exactly...
Unrelated but RUclips was saying your comment is 3 minutes ago a few seconds ago and now its 6 minutes
Bro is not the main character
You're like the doom slayer but for Mojang.
The Only Thing they Fear is You.
Yes, you are gonna win 'ten million minecoins
@@S0ME_GUYhe’s the main character of the bedrock modding community (trust me)
Don't you love whenever an indie project gets bought by a big company, and that company makes the worst decisions ever? It happens EVERY SINGLE TIME!
Yeah
Greed destroys everything.
@@trivalentclanI can find Salmon in my local creek smarter than these people
crazy thing is the "security" excuse is just a lie... truly another horrible decision
this doesnt even make sense like if people who used to play mods are still not gonna pay for addons? if theyre into mods they probably have java edition anyway and will just play that. even if they dont, they still wont pay for addons cuz theyre crappy
“Security” and “safety” is like the corporate number 1 favorite fear mongering excuses.
Source?
I would like to vote on that, but every time I try to log in, I get logged out immediately after.
A Microsoft auth server problem actually
I can't even get that far, lol. I've just bookmarked it to come back later.
Same
The entire website is trash actually. Half the time you make a post there, it gets deleted without any notice as on why this happens. There is a Discord Server somewhere that serves the same function, but I don't know where.
@@FailRaceFan yeah I am in that server actually, it's called "Minecraft Feedback" Server
Now, with Minecraft as we know it in its time of need, we are not Bedrock players, we are not Java players, we are Minecraft players. Make sure to do your part and vote
indeed
tbf, minecraft should die. Devs are farming millions by doing absolutely nothing. It still isn't enough for them, so they try to farm more, which is sad. That kind of predatory behaviour should be punished with a dead game imo. Don't be pussies and slave your mind for a piece of code anyone can write.
the cool thing is that the feedback site is completely broken and ive havent been able to sign in to the feedback site in months as it just signs you out instantly so i cant even vote on the post
That's a very Microsoft thing to do
I had this as well - still amazed it's not fixed yet
I have the exact same issue, and it sounds like there are quite a few others!
Its exactly how Micro$hit feedback/help works. Give people illusion it is there and when they need it just make it broken so they will shut the f up and you can milk them like cows...
That sounds like the usual microsoft experience
3:03 nah he just has a really good gaming chair
I get it.
guys report the spam, DON'T click on his profile, this will give him the views he want
@@RobopRUclips Now I'm just waiting for the Streisand Effect to appear...
@@RobopRUclips what spam? i just said a generic comment. my profile is also normal, my content isn't amazing, but its definitely not spam. stop smoking that good shit
@@PixelSalad99 there was a spammer, probably one of those "don't look at my profile picture" ones, that Robop was talking about
Mojang dev 1: Let's fix the horrible view bobbing on bedrock!
Mojang dev 2: Let's add the legacy Console GUI for console players!
Mojang dev 3: Let's add color wheels to the ingame skin editer!
Microsoft:
Microsoft: Let’s remove mcpe good features out!
I mean consoles already get enough hate and having Minecraft just adds to the hate that you get. People will mock you and act like you're worthless if you don't have Java and can't buy an expensive gaming computer. You can't download mods, skins, etc. unless they're from the marketplace and it wouldn't really be a problem for me if they could just keep bedrock edition up to date with Java and add some of the updates we've been asking for. And if the hate isn't enough you have Microsoft and Mojang making sure your experience is terrible.
@@Roach292 I don't really know what you just said. It was weirdly structured.
But as someone who's played all versions, legacy console, bedrock and java. I just want basic stuff such as a GOOD UI on bedrock.
@StefanoAbruzzi you can't download mods, bedrock is behind on a few minor updates, if you can't get Java or a computer you're basically considered a joke, oh and btw people say Minecraft takes like 2 minutes just to load now on consoles
@@StefanoAbruzziis this a bit more simplified
Lol I can't vote, they ask me to connect, which I do. Once it connect, it instantly disconnect me. It's like they don't want people to vote smh
Yeah same I try to log into Microsoft, it does a bunch of redirects, and tells me I’ve been successfully logged out. I’m going to try clearing my Minecraft feedback cookies, see if that helps
There's a bug report about not being able to log in on the bug tracker. That's why they made a feedback discord server where we have another post with many votes
Minecrafts website sucks for that. It took me 15 minutes to claim the 15y anniversary cape because every time I pressed anything and the page loaded I was logged out and would need to log in again
Same for me, I swear everything that Microsoft gets their hands on ends up being a buggy, broken mess
Would it surprise anyone if the "bug" is intentionally caused by them? @felixbeaulieu852
Mojang unmining the craft like da hell mojang we need mods on every version on minecraft
Microsoft*
@@toastergaming7783 Mojang*
@@toastergaming7783 Its not 100% microsoft, Microsoft isn't 100% incharge of all these features and you have to understand, Mojang isnt a indie company anymore They are ran by a multi billion dollar company and as such are responsible for alot of their decisions and arent as friendly as you may think, They too just look over how much money they could get, Mojang for instance may not have been in control of the account switching though microsoft still isnt in control of every little thing they do, Alot of the technical things are still on mojang IE Removal of this feature,
Anyways this was sent like really late for me so it could be wrong but this is just from what i remember or recall im too tired to do any indepth thing
Either way Mojang is just as at fault
@@toastergaming7783 *mojang
@@wildwyatxbox Microjang*
mojang: why does our player base hate us???
also mojang:
The community doesn’t hate them. The people who do are just very loud and get a lot of attention by a few youtubers who make money off of hysteria
No, we hate Microsoft
@@oliverplougmand2275 I would say people hate what Mojang has become
their weird politics affect the game in the dumbest ways, and their laziness is caused by jeb's stupid rules of minecraft.
yea we *could* blame microsoft but realistically we should put some blame on mojang
Microsoft*
Right? If Mojang wasn’t lazy we’d have had fireflies in 1.19.
“But frogs shouldn’t eat fireflies” then don’t have them eat the fireflies
Almost gave up when I learned from the email replies that this was almost inevitable.
Thank you for making this video.
Using the salmon metaphor is really easy to understand,
and the video rekindling my hope that Microsoft will listen to players and revert to the changes,
and the Bedrock server community will continue.
Hey verified person i dont know about
Boy, modding is so cool, hopefully nothing bad happens to it!
It makes me happy to see a Java player fight in the Bedrock players' corner. Also for the modders that are trying to make it a better game. It's normally the other way around so thank you for making a dedicated video for this.
Seriously, im just waiting for the gaming marketplace crash...
And this moment is just around the corner.
It won't and still pretty far from it. Now if something like GTA VI fails then I can see a gaming crash around the corner.
@@Killersnake432I have a feeling it's going to be Cyperpunk 2077 2: Electric Boogaloo
@@redmadness265band kid
@@redmadness265 I doubt that's gonna be a thing with Rockstar's history... Unless it's another RDR1 kind of thing but those glitches and bugs made it even better.
@@happygofishing Funny thing is I'm not a band kid I did orchestra for 7 years in school
We need everyone to vote so the poll blows up.
WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO MOD BEDROCK EDITION GUYS
You still can…
@@hehasnolips1371If they continue with their anti-modding practices, not any longer soon
@@NEPR-7 they aren’t anti modding stop listening to these pro java creators who want to pity bedrock players for content this guy doesn’t care at all he made a whole video complaining on how bugrock is terrible which is true W JAVA but Microsoft is trying to cater to the “modding” community on bedrock but they aren’t doing it correctly I love they are making addons on the marketplace that’s a start I know they are planning to give out the creator tools that marketplace creators have to the public so third party addons can have better limitations on what they can do
@@hehasnolips1371 its harder to
@@hehasnolips1371 Why should I not listen to them? After all I alone decide who and what gets my attention...
Programmer here. When a program is compiled, a lot of information that is only needed by the humans reading and maintaining the code, but not by the computer, is stripped out.
The PDB file is a location where some of this stripped out data is stored so for the purposes of debugging (or reverse engineering) some of this lost context can be displayed in a debugging tool. Otherwise it will not be present and it may be more difficult to determine what the program is doing.
I don't know exactly how this is relevant to modding, but my guess is they are able to see internal function names that are normally stripped out and this aids in determining where and how to patch the server to add in custom code at the desired locations.
Not a bedrock modder but from what I can gather the “modding API” for bedrock only has a limited amount of functions and most of the stuff people want is obfuscated away (like the ability to mess with items and add new ones). What documentation I found for the bedrock API is that’s it’s more analogous to the command block stuff (so it’s useful for making custom maps and scripted events but not major gameplay overhauls or even simple edits of the crafting system) but I may just about have gotten deep enough haha.
For the non programmers out there bedrock was written in C++ and can be distributed without source code. The Java edition is written in Java which is much harder to (destructively) obfuscate the code. This is why all of the modding and multiplayer stuff has been centered around Java (the code is accessible and usable with way less effort).
In the most short terms pdb gives you a pointer to where you messed up and what is at that location, so you know when making changes to something that blows up you get an idea of what the cause might be. Documentation cannot really provide that level of debugging.
thats pretty much it, yeah. I'll also add that in C++, functions and things get jumbled up and mixed together in weird ways. Your "salmon" isn't alone, it's squashed into the same "image" with code that does a whole bunch of other stuff, so it's a lot harder to sort out what bits do what. the original code, while helpful, isn't as important as just borders splitting the code into related chunks, or something outlining those pixels and pointing to it saying "salmon".
The suggestion to remove the java documentation is a sarcastic one, java doesn't really have this issue even with it removed, purely due to the nature of java as a programming language. You lose the function names yes, but decompiling java already splits everything into manageable chunks, and you can figure out most of the names from context and matching things to previous versions.
mojang is slowly killling minecraft... just wait till they implemet the marketplace to java
It’s mostly Microsoft’s fault. Wish notch or whoever did it never sold in the first place.
Earlier versions will always have mods
java players won't allow it. plus we can just not update to that version anyway.
@@WhatIsANameAndAreNamesNamey you cant switch to older versions on bedrock tho
@@Esiv0_you can with third party softwares like bedrock launcher
I don't play Bedrock edition, but I will still throw my vote at this...
Welp, Minecraft has slid further down the corporate slope. I jumped ship to Vintage Story a couple years ago and I'm glad I did. I really want to check out Minetest too and am patiently waiting for Lay of the Land. Even if Micro$oft physically can't prevent modding on Java, it shows their mindset about the game and how they will treat the community and future updates. Its really sad that this once community driven game is being wrenched from the communities hands and so so many updates that are universally hated have been pushed over the past few years.
Minetest is cool but it lacks the polish that minecraft has, hopefully with some work it'll be possible to make it more similar to minecraft
2:32 neoforge cries in the corner, as does MCP and forge and all the original modding teams.
I told people they'd start doing this before, but everyone kept glazing Mojang.
I'm not happy that I ended up being right.
This all came from Microsoft influence. Microsoft influenced the political splash texts and maps they added, and they're influencing monetisation too. I'm not sure if Mojang is even trying to resist it anymore.
damn bots why pheonix tho
I already knew Mojang was going down this route when they started pushing political splash texts..
Don’t Willy nilly glazin
Isn't that like, Microsoft's doing ?
Microsoft is the main bedrock leader I think
The beauty of things like java Minecraft is that, should MS do a VERY big stupid, moders could agree on one of the latest version before the stupid happening, then from that point forward replicate any update Minecraft officially makes to the game via mods, effectively forking the whole game and creating a Libre/Open Office scenario.
and there is a precedent, in a smaller scale modders hard forked beta 1.7 and just carried on development from there, if modders hard fork minecraft at like... 1.25.x for example other things like performance mods could be integrated to the project as well etc, as long as theres no piracy they will struggle a lot to shut down the project
The Marketplace was the worst thing to ever happen to Bedrock Edition.
Agree
Add-ons in general
@lovitree9853i aint paying 20 for a tiny ahh mod that is normally free in not just java but 95% of every game i've ever seen
I mean it was the sole purpose of them even creating bedrock edition… why port the moble version of the game back to PC (which already had a version they still support and seems to function better anyways)? It was so they could add micro transactions and this is just a way of furthering that goal.
Absol-fucking-lutely
Marketplace: “Dragons!! Godzilla!! Skinpacks!! Star Wars!?!? Play Minecraft YOUR way!”
Me: “please,, just,, a chunk border display,, a spawn radius display, connected glass,, just…maybe setting the worldspawn in the Nether…”
Marketplace: “NETHER SKIN PACK!!!”
I rarely play Bedrock... But I feel like I also must help the community. Even if it is only one vote... We might be able to save Bedrock...
I didn't even have an MCFB account before... I registered to vote.
I have never played java always bedrock, this comment makes me so happy-
3:04
I somehow wheezed at "Exhibit A"
My sense of humor is truly broken.
The people of the launcher of Amethyst thank you for making such a informative video, since we thought TheMisterEpic's video wasn't as informative about the issue as this is!
who couldeve guessed, a active bedrock mod dev can elaborate the issue clearer than some random gamer that just so ever happens to make video essays about the game
@@imgladnotu9527He owns and runs a Java Edition server with Bedrock compatibility. He's not just "some random gamer," FYI.
@@letcreate123
A server he very likely does not maintain himself.
Bedrock is the lactose-intolorant kid, Java is the neighbor who can't have grilled cheese because of it.
omg lol
2:32 MCP: What am I, chopped liver?
yes
yarn is way way way better than mcp
Yes.
guys report the bot, but don't check his profile cuz he will get the views he wants, we have to stop this kind of people
@@qtpaulie That's probably true, but you gotta respect MCP for paving the way of minecraft modding from alpha all the way to 1.12
Thank you Pheonix SC for making this video and calling out microsoft for doing something that should be frankly unaccepable. I remember back in sometime like 2010 when I first started to play minecraft and I remeber it being the most magical experience exploring the world. i remeber every update being full of magic as i was able to explore the world without having to consider anything about minecoins or other things. i remember waiting ages for pistons to come out and having no clue what the hell the observer did. i remeber finding a old world with walls build out of nether reactor cores!!! it was a major part of my childhood and i want it to continue that way and by you making this video helps so much to continue to have minecraft be accessable to all who want to have the same experiance of the magic of exploring this world.
i know you probs wont read this but thanks anyways
This change will only make security worse, not only will the community security patches be gone, but hackers will be basically uneffected. Modders often work on pure love of a game, while it is possible to continue to mod without the PDB file, itll be very difficult. This isnt an issue for hackers though, hackers are incentivezed by money from selling or running ads on their client website, therefor they will just apply reverse engineering tactics. This is a very stupid change
Yo fellow gordon pfp
i feel really bad for my little brother who knows nothing about actual mods and has bought addons from the marketplace
That’s sad
How sad that he had to pay for his entertainment 😢😂
Teach him better, you are failing him as a sibling. Shame on you and your future decendents
@@Actvontact i dont live with him
@@oliverplougmand2275 I mean... yeah? Paying for something when you could get the same thing for free and help support someone's passion project is bad. It's good to save money, and it's good to support smaller creators.
This will be one of the only times I will help out the bedrock community, modding is essential for a game to not die afterall
I took almost 2 decades for GTA San Andreas modding community to have some .pdb file for classic GTA San Andreas game (released in 2005). It was leaked a few years ago from a mobile version of the game, but it is so useful that it helps even the PC community. One interesting thing is that we on the community are pretty sure this was purposefully leaked from the Grove Street Studios (porter of mobile version and created of GTA Trilogy remaster), because they leaked A LOT of things for us in the past years (even the full missions and shops source code with compiler), and we know that Rockstar Games would ABSOLUTELY NEVER share .pdb etc. But Grove Street Games loves the modding community, I even indirectly made they release the 2.0 mobile version after years without any release (is a long story, about a very important bug that modders (not me) managed to fix etc).
It would be good if when commenting on this, you shared interesting sites to download bedrock mods and textures like bedrock tweaks or mcpedl, people think that there is only a marketplace and assume that there is no community of creators at bedrock
Microsoft not even letting me log in to the feedback hub to give feedback about their greedy practices is such a Microsoft thing to do
Glad I’m on Java. Feel awful for the people on Bedrock. If you own the game, you should be able to mod the game how you want to without restrictions
That’s almost entirely impossible if they want to “mod” the game they need to switch to Java bedrock has too much limitations on things they can do it’s getting better with SCRIPT API and marketplace creators have better limitations on addons and they are one day going to be giving the creative tools that marketplace creators have to the public so it’ll be easier for them to make content like creators on the marketplace can
@@hehasnolips1371 Im not sure if you understood what kind of modding we're talking about
@@spicylemon2623 the sorts of things you can get on bedrock aren't worth using 90% of the time
This exact sentiment is precisely why I'm moving away from console gaming to PC more.
@@spicylemon2623 I’m pretty sure I do
If helldivers fans could brute force sony into rolling back their decision to force PS+ account use, minecraft fans can do the same to microsoft
Idk, Microsoft has too much influence/money/games. I think the Halo community would have done this if they could have.
And they trued, a lot of people stopped playing or un-installed, but a big enough mess was never made from the community; the only mess was Microsoft and the new Halo games
@@A_Productions We said the same thing about Sony. But look what we did.
Minecraft's playerbase is mostly children or people who are all bark and no bite. Wish this could work, but come on. You'll get 10k people max and then the movement fizzles out and dies on a whimper
@@Twiddle_things Yeah, actually you have a point.
I forgot that part.
@@A_Productionshere's the thing: the reason why microsoft has had said influence for so long is that, ultimately, people have allowed so much of their shenanigans to go through unnoticed and uncontested. it all started with windows and who knows where it will end at.
however, there is still hope. right now you can still contest the things that they do, especially when we're at a point where they are at their low with so many choosing to stick to windows 10 and it starts with you helping decrease their OS market share and switching to linux (or macos, preferably the former but your choice).
Microsoft wants people to play bedrock edition, yet they keep making stupid changes that just make java edition more appealing.
Great job Microsoft.
this change really doesnt effect anyone whos just playing the game
They want people to pay more money. They could not care less if anyone ever actually played. All the big publishers are like that. A typical indy dev wants people to play and enjoy the thing they made. If the AAAs could just take money without having to ever make anything, they would do it.
@@spicylemon2623 If most third-party server owners shut down their servers, Bedrock Edition would be in a heap of trouble.
If companies had militaries more powerful than all other militaries, said corporate militaries would just raid people and steal their money.
@@CosyHamster yes that would be a problem but I meant like just playing with your friends on an ordinary world
A similar thing has existed in java up until very recently when Mojang began providing their own official obfuscation mappings. Minecraft Java edition code is not publicly available because in the past it was necessary to prevent people from making copies but copies of Minecraft exist regardless now which makes you question why they'd keep the code secret anymore. Anyways, to avoid people decompiling the game and figuring out what the code does, Mojang applies obfuscation to various aspects of the game code which makes it more difficult to read. Java modders in the past fixed this issue by inventing the MCP obfuscation mappings by reading the obfuscated code themselves, collectively, and assembling the MCP. They then deobfuscate the game code in the development environment and obfuscate the mods in release.
The PDB files are basically the Microsoft provided obfuscation mappings for bedrock. Without them, the bedrock community will need to create their own mappings like java modders did many many years ago. There really is no security vulnerability in having the code be exposed plainly, malicious modders will simply create their own PDBs anyways.
thats really interesting. I never knew this happened.... when you say many years ago, you mean like.... 2015 or something?
The difference is that decompiling Java is pretty straightforward. I can open any .jar in IntelliJ IDEA and get a decent enough representation of the code (though with obfuscation, things will be randomly named like AzB1Ky or something). With C++ it's extremely difficult.
@@levence643-- I think that's how Java modding has worked forever, so since 2009. The Java programming language makes deobfuscation rather easy though, C++/C# is a lot harder.
@@TlalocTemporalJava is relatively easy to decompile because it isn't fully compiled in the first place. It's part-compiled to an intermediate language, which gets interpreted by the Java runtime into machine code. C# is similar - it's why Unity games often have mods incredibly shortly after launch. The code still has information needed for decompilation, as this is needed for it to be compiled from the intermediate to machine code.
C++ is compiled directly to machine code. This gives some benefits like better performance, but it also means that all information not useful for program and execution is completely removed. Normally, for debugging purposes, this information is stored in a PDB file to help the developers to debug the program - but these files are rarely actually shipped with the program, and hence decompiling C++ is difficult.
@@Chocice75 -- Ah, I didn't realize that C# and C++ were different in this, interesting.
Ostensibly, Pocket edition/Bedrock was written in C++ for performance reasons. Is this loading/startup performance, or does the code being fully compiled somehow grant better runtime performance?
Security by obscurity is a bad principle, some of the mojang developers agree with that statement yet still went ahead with this.
it's not the dev's fault, usually it's management
I wouldn’t even care about the market place that much if the mods and texture packs were actually good.
For example the Minecraft store on legacy edition was good. As OPTIONAL dlc but modding is still allowed
Bedrock has a serious hacking problem. I had to shut my realm down of around 100 players because of the hackers.
they had a whole discord with bots to shut down your server with command without joining lol
@@arie1906 its actually a really interesting thing; althought its been patched now
@@spicylemon2623 no, they are running 24/7 with the lasted 1.21.0
I'm observing them
Apparently there’s a anti cheat now someone made on mcpedl
lol theres already TONS of hackers in the bedrocks servers like hive, cubecraft, and some in galaxite, i dont even play hive anymore cuz its just awful
I get that microsoft/mojang wants to make bedrock the "corporate" version. But every time they do it its aways at a major cost. Mainly in player freedom and control over important things.
At least java is and aways will be here.
Let me explain:
Its pretty much the only advertised version
Its the version with the marketplace, sponsors, "DLC-s", ugc and revenue stream
Its the version with the "intended" features(aka not that many buggy or old things like the furnace minecart and quasi-connectivity)
Its the version out on everything, probably even inluding woodchippers and ovens
And its also the version that is the most "polished"(that is if you ignore the billion and one bugs that make it into the "thats all we have" version)
@@Pwnopolis-- Maybe there will be more work done by modders on getting Java to run on phones and connect to realms.
@@TlalocTemporal its already possible,pojavlauncher exists,and is 100% functional,dunno about realms tho since i don't use them anyway
fym professional version
@@tftc97 What he means to say is "corporate version"-sanitized and monetized. Microsoft can't generate shareholder profit from Java aside from accounts, and they lack the kind of control in keeping up appearances a publicly traded company desires over its products. Even the former struggles since Java is so easily portable, see Eaglercraft. Microsoft has been trying to kill Java since the day they bought it for these two fundamental reasons.
@@ironmatic1 oh ok
I didn't think this was a serious concern because of TheMisterMister's of cringe video title. Thanks for re-iterating the subject in a less repulsive manner.
Oh, a feedback page vote! I am sure that (even if it STILL doesn't let me log in or search anything) it will definitely do something, just like in the case of copper bulb that is currently at 1739 votes! It's made for a feedback after all, is it not?
I mean... we could try?? (not trying to be mean but sometimes it just turns out that wat bc internet and whatnot)
it's at over 7000.
This will literally kill bedrock edition is they don’t add it back. I mean it could ruin servers all together at some point which will drive people to just making worlds and eventually they will get bored so they move to Java realizing they wasted money on bedrock Edition.
maybe they want bedrock players to play on java servers
how do you waste money on bedrock when you get both versions when you buy one?
@@Felipe-rn1gf funny joke
@@SmitePlayz1pocket edition exists
Not only Renderdragon preventing HAL shaders and having a phone not powerful enough for deferred rendering shaders is why I use the old MCBE/PE 1.18.12 version, but because of mod suppression in future updates too.
3:39 Man don't you just hate it when a post spreading awareness gets removed on Reddit 💀
r/Minecraft moment
truly a censorship moment.
@@Terrazonalso the same people who rallied against the site changing its underlying API, and ultimately failed because all reddit had to do was threaten moderators' positions and they eventually just caved lol.
I remember getting a warning for saying "I'm having the same issue" because it wasn't helpful
Let's say something straight. Security by obscurity is antipattern, and should not be used because it makes software actually more vulnreable. If people has access to source they can pentest it, debug it, find and report vulnerabilities. Look for open source software or bug bounty programs.
This will be mojangs biggest mistake.
Mods are the only thing keeping your game alive.
if players have to pay no one will play Minecraft.
#REMOVETHEMARKETPLACE
Edit: keep the system removed the part where you spend money
As a Minecraft Bedrock Edition player, I agree.
#REMOVETHEMARKETPLACE
Remove it entirely, never met anyone who actually uses it
@@ShadowEclipse777 Console players that can’t mod the game
what if for every achievement u make ingame u get minecoins instead
@@t-pos that wouldn't make Microsoft any money so it sucks for them, they just want to Milk 9 yo's Parents' Money playing on their stupid consoles in the name of custom stuff so they can make profit off of it
this is like when a parent beats the crap out of one of their children, then grounds the other for not stepping up for him.
phoenix is like the only person who would make an entire video just to help a few people that deserve the help, and that is really beautiful.
If they delete map files from Java you can still mod the game
Yep, it might be (nearly) impossible to ever stop java modding due to nature of Java itself, while what happened here to BE is what I believed would happen from the very start.
Hello! Sorry to bother you. I'm one of the members of Chinese Minecraft translator group. The news that mojang will stop providing pdb file is not widely spread in Chinese Minecraft community and there are many persons don't realize how important it is. So I want to translate your video of removing pdb file and repost it on bilibili without any profit to let more people know the news and vote the feedback and leave the comments.😢
This only affects bedrock atm not the Chinese version which is only licensed from Microsoft... That said wouldn't be surprised if Netease followed suit... 2 versions later.
@@chdreturnsBut many people in China play bedrock edition😢
@@chdreturns netease version of china bedrock has no BDS. and the client is actually packed with WinLicense .. a DRM anti tamper bullshit scheme thats .. relatively easy to get around. but ppl in china just download the regular bedrock edition
@@chdreturnsbruh Chinese version run on Bedrock
I say just do it and provide a link back to the original video in your video's description
Welp, for the first time Java players can stand with the bedrock players
I really wish I could vote but for some reason I keep getting signed out after I sign in with my Microsoft account. Good luck.
I think they are afraid of people voting.
microsoft moment
This is terrible, if they're trying to do this to bedrock Java will be next. We really need to make a drama about this
Java doesn't work the same way... They can do things that will ruin the game sure. But it can't be next for this kind of thing.
He did his best to explain what the output difference is between the C++ code and java. But to be extra clear, decompiling C++ leaves almost 0 name and text information used to identify stuff for modders. Java basically keeps all of it. So Java can't get screwed like this.
They really can't to Java. The Yarn mappings are just as popular as the official Mojang Mappings.
Java is untouchable. I'll be balling while mojang tries to find jet another reason to ruin bedrock for profit.
@@SquintyGears Also it would be like shooting yourself in the foot from a business perspective, as around 50% when not even more of java players are using mods.
the thing that Mojang probably does (I hope not) is to funnel the Java player to bedrock with many QoL and, at worst, stop updating Java for future updates ...
Mojang casually killing more than quarter of the minecraft community
It's crazy how they're saying it's to "stop hacked clients" ignoring that all its gonna do is make hacked clients both cost more to buy and be more complicated.
I always loved playing with mods and add-ons on bedrock…
This isn't going to affect add-ons.
You can still do that
@@GSBarlev bedrock only has add-ons
@@ShadowEclipse777 Incorrect. Bedrock has mods too. Check out Project Amethyst. They mostly revolve around fixing exploits, but there are also "F3" mods and other QoL enhancements that aren't possible via datapacks. Heck, there are even shaders!
The quicker bedrock dies, the quicker Microsoft gives up on the minecraft marketplace
I hate the marketplace. There's practically no quality control, and I'm highly skeptical that the creators have permission to use the IPs for their skin packs and other content. Add-ons often break when used in regular worlds. The character customization is underwhelming; I would have preferred something like Essential on Java, where you can buy cosmetics for your existing skin. It's really disappointing because a system like this could have been a great way for creators to profit from mods. Instead, it's garbage-filled cash grab and Microsoft is fully aware of it.
The funny thing is that for Java, when mojang startet releasing deobfuscated names most modders kept using the reverse engineered deobfuscation because it just had better variable naming.
I dont know if that's still the case tho
You're forced to use mojangs mappings
People using something for FREE?! No this cant be we gotta remove that now.
Ah yes, can't wait for people who have a fight about java is better to bring this up.
Also, wow, ever since this video was uploaded, already votes are going into the feedback page like hundreds of votes in 5 minutes!
We love a Java player helping the bedrock players out ❤
Strongest always help the weakest.
No matter how trash-talkera they are with their restricting-bugged-hack- infested version 😂
Spoken like a true archaic coding language with medium sized salmon 😘
Talk to me when you can put potions in cauldrons
Hello Phoenix SC! I love your videos and I hope you make lots more!
this has a very passive aggressive undertone but I can’t tell why
@@berhonkusbardledooi think its a comment for algorithm
Bro said " Let's dig into the meat of this"...
*Proceedes to show an image of a SALMON*
Great video as ever! You are gonna de-pixelate that salmon though, right?
You are gonna depixelate that salmon, right?
we need to vote, java brothers.
Big Salmon tribe may play the wrong version, but their hearts is a right, square shape.
Next minecraft update: So you want parity? We'll get you parity. *deletes java edition entirely*
At this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if they did delete one of the versions. Despite the fact that would be really stupid.
Yeah that kinda happened before when bedrock has a feature where if any entity step on top of a campfire it got burned instead of just half of heart damage/s.. And then as you expected mojang removed them as "parity" to java and also called them a "bug"
I fear this could be a reality sooner than we might think. They have been pushing parody features on bedrock all of a sudden
Why add hardcore mode to bedrock when we all know how many ways to die due to bugs there are.
At this point Microsoft is just fueling the Java-Bedrock war
phoenix is in Australia right..? it’s 4:30am here. is phoenix a member of the bad sleep cycle gang, or is he automatically posting for murican engagement?
If he's posting early for our sake, I'm honored, but I think he should get some sleep instead. No one should burn themselves out for others unless they really want to do something for them.
@@NoriKassidy I mean, you can schedule videos ahead of time, so maybe that's what he does?
@@tzarg I know you can do that, I just keep forgetting that I'm the only person who schedules my crap to be posted within the hour. Thank you for reminding me, though.
I have lost my faith for Mojang (Aka. Microsoft) a long time ago. Like when they enforced the use of Microsoft accounts. I really just want to forget this game and never see it again.
They went downhill ever since Notch was unfairly ousted from his position.
@@Cubeytheawesome unfairly ousted? He literally sold it
Ok then don’t play the game. We don’t want you in the community anyway
@@aerobiesizer3968 ...after being hated on for decisions he didn't make.
He wasn't ousted, however I'd say it was pretty unfair. But whatever, it still only went downhill from there.
Totally agree. I would like to see Minecraft shatter just so I could never look back at that shithole. Then, many millions of players like me will be free to search the gaming world for other great games too.
🥱
Another episode of devs trying to kill their own game cause it's not dying and losing players.
Another example of bedrock's DRM hurting it's paying player base while creating another benefit for free piracy/hacked that legitimate paid users don't get....
I think you might've ddos'ed the feedback site with this video because the sign in page is down