I don't think anyone says a five shot revolver is to be used for gun battles in law enforcement. But a good pocket revolver that you carry almost anywhere beats that big high-capacity weapon that is home in your bedroom drawer.
Happy Saturday my friend! Last friday i stopped at the gun shop and was planning on buying an old model 60 … the hammer was bobbed and had a big old grip on it… It kind of turned me of. I didn’t give it much thought and i left empty handed! I had a gorgeous model 60 a few years ago. i sold it and still regret it!
There is a great channel on here called gunblue490 a guy who was classicly trained by s&w how to build, and repair their revolvers. He has said the modern s&w are even better then the old ones, be has a great video demonstrating part by part, how modern s&w revolvers like the model 60 (you can do "lock delete" if the "hilary hole" bothers you) are even better then they used to make. Less likely to break, better tolerances, more durable many regards. People VASTLY underestimate modern s&w revolvers. I OWN 2 j frames that are both modern makes and both are incredible for $100-200 more then a ruger LCR its a whole different category of gun, in terms of quality, fit and finish, sights, trigger, grips/stocks options for holsters.. j frames are AMAZING still in 2024. They learn and improve with each dash model.. going to quote a smith & wesson forum member named time tripper whos written out all the changes of the model 60 with each dash - change.. Quote: "Looking at the SCSW 3rd, the model 60 has gone through quite a few changes over the years. Early no dash model had no R prefix serial numbers. The -1, as K22 stated, is a rare heavy barrel version. The pinned barrel was deleted in 1982 but apparently did not result in a dash change. Dash 3 in 1988 denoted a change to the new yoke retention system. Dash 4 was a limited production of a full under lug target version. Dash 5 were DA only guns made for the NYCPD. Dash 6 are the introduction of a LadySmith version. Dash 7 denotes an increase in the sight width to 1/8" and a heat treatment package. Dash 8 - same as -7 but for NYCPD. Dash 9 was the introduction of the mewer J magnum frame and cylinder to allow chambering to 357 mag in all2" fixed sighted guns. Dash 10 was a target version of the 357 mag. Dash 11, 12, and 13 guns had changes made in 1996 to the frame design of 38 special versions of the model 60. Dash 14 through 17 denote the intro of the internal lock in the various versions ( Lady Smith, target 38s and 357 mag). and lastly... the Dash 18 is a key lock equipped, 5" target model with a new 2 piece barrel design. Hope this helps."
A solid presentation. I served in three departments (the first as a young reserve) and under four Chiefs. Two didn't possess the maturity equal to their ages... I saw both replaced. The other two should have been cloned. I've only seen a few videos on this channel, but so far, I am impressed. It stresses the importance of KNOWLEDGE... Proper knowledge. New sub.
Thanks, I have many former or retired officers who follow this channel. We don't always agree on the minors, but we mostly agree on the things that are important.
👍 that decision took a lot of confidence / guts. Guessing the officer put in a lot of training time and practice. Good example “always be prepared for the unexpected”.
It presents an interesting problem and thoughtful reflection. What would you do? For some people to think is to act; most times brought on by training. Yet, the decision process still clicks though; only at a more rapid speed.
You made some excellent points. Back in the 90s, I carried a .357 Magnum version of the Model 60 as a BUG and for off duty occasionally, particularly to church, and more often than not in an ankle holster. Two potential incidents, however, got me rethinking that gear. First was a Pizza Hut after church with the family. I always sat at the back table, back the wall and one day watched a couple of incredibly suspicious characters come in, hanging around a video game near the entrance/restrooms/cash registers. Maybe they were there to pick up and order but something about them looked off. From a seated position, I had about as good of access to the 5-shot on the ankle as on my hip. They finally left - don’t recall if the left with any food. The second time was a trip to the grocery store before church. Encounter a likely felon/gang member who seemed to eyeball me pretty hard. I had encountered others who seemed to recognize me from the job that I couldn’t recall ever meeting. The 5-shot on the ankle seemed as far away as my home. Third eye went active and I made my purchase and left without incident. Not saying that a 5-shot is not sufficient for most considering the odds of something occurring, depending on location, location, location, but got to weigh the potential threats with potential courses of action. I’d rather have a 5-shot than a harsh word or a pointy stick (or OC on a windy day), but with your choice of carry comes the responsibility to consider how bad you want to walk in bear country while wearing brisket aftershave…
Hi Greg, some wise words there. Carry what you shoot best and are comfortable with. Always carry and train train train. Have situation awareness. Thank you Sir for your hard work and time you are appreciated.
I have two 38 special Ruger's. Hammer and hammerless, made out of titanium. They are so light I can carry them in my waistband of my athletic shorts, and it's almost as if I forget what I'm carrying. But I only carry them in the "war zone" known as Walmart.
There is no replacement for common sense. Having been involved in three shootings as a peace officer, and investigated officer involved shootings during my career provided me with many lessons. Above all, think. Use your head. Unless right on top of you, wait for the most advantages moment. "Collateral Damage" is unacceptable. Human life is priceless, and cannot be replaced. Money and objects can be. Don't be the one saying "If only I had waited..." with a bystander being shot.
A lot of rapid fire analysis has to occur. For a few, it occurs naturally. For most it comes from training. The Roman Vegetius wrote a maxim about the training of the Roman soldier that always stuck with me. "Few are born brave, but many become so through the force and care of discipline."
I carry a 5 shot 357 for several reasons. As bad as it may sound, due to the current environment and state of the world, I'm simply out here to protect myself. I'm no longer serving this country, I am no longer a medical professional, I am strictly a civilian trying to survive. The gun I carry reflects that. If circumstances change where hero's are no longer vilified, gun restrictions are removed, and people become thankful again, then I will carry a firearm that reflects my choice to protect others.
It would be interesting to see an in depth analysis of that story. Just from what was told, I'd be VERY reluctant to start a gun fight in a crowded space with 4 criminals using shotguns. Depending on the size of the space and the number of customers, the collateral damage potential seems like it would be off the charts. One podunk town police chief going a little nuts waiving a revolver after the fact is barely a consideration. But the officer involved made the call and it worked out, so it must've been the right one. As they say on the Active Self Protection channel, "success is the best deodorant."
Decades later, I'd agree. The only reason I see responding was if someone was directly being threatened with death. In this case, it worked, but we also used to call risking your life and the life of others needlessly, Tombstone Courage. Of course, today in similar circumstances, the lawsuits would have flowed from the customers traumatized and the criminals shot.
Wise words, Greg. I usually have a 5 or 6 shot revolver with me, and the multiple attacker scenario is always in the back of my mind. The only time I thought I was going to have to draw my revolver, it was in response to 3 young men who had been following me. They started yelling at me to stop and "show them my boots." I knew what was going on and was able to step inside a restaurant until they were gone. Situation avoided... I had a Taurus 85 in my waistband at the time, and while I was very glad it was with me, I distinctly remember feeling under-gunned. Especially if they were all armed as well. Again, wise words - thanks for the video!
Great Advice, Greg. I run through me vs bad guy situations in my mind, often wondering if I’m going to do more harm than good. I’ve been carrying my 12 round P365 for a couple of months, having realized the limitations of a revolver.
@@frankbutta9344id consider carrying some medical if you dont already. We are more likely to need a tourniquet then a spare mag from the data activr self protection has reviewed. 4k+ citizen involved self defense shootings, only 1 had a reload and its cuz he half loads the magazines to not ruin spring in pakistan or india or something. All the other cases shot what they had in the gun and that was enough. Many also got hit and the ones who had medical almost always survived vs ones who dont
Excellent video, knowing your limitations is the cap stone of survival. That chief sounds like a real idiot, hopefully he never got any of his officers or citizens hurt.
A Browning Hi-Power is a great gun, but you have to be either crazy, or crazy good, to take on three guys armed with shotguns. I will say that it has been my experience that there is an advantage of acting quickly and aggressively. It tends to shock most peoples senses and causes them to hesitate. But three guys with shotguns is a pretty big bet. The Chief was an idiot. If you have to shout "I'm the King", you are not "the King". .
I'm not sure any hand gun + back up gun combo could make the 1 pistol shooter vs 3 shotgunners be the one with the good odds. Absolutely incredible what the element of surprise, skill disparity, and violence of action is capable of doing. Theres many stories from LEO to military, of one badass man, taking down 3 or in some cases more armed individuals with equal or greater arms. Never underestimate the human ability to survive even through incredibly dangerous and difficult situations!
Thank you for another great informative video I view my EDC firearms as tools - bring the right tool or tools Also know your realistic ability and limitations with your chosen EDC tool As a lifetime martial artist - I did not embrace firearms until I was diagnosed with cancer - a firearm affords me the ability to continue to have the ability to protect my family and self a Snubby revolver provides these advantages and when needed - it can have the additional EDC tool of higher capacity ………… THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GREAT VIDEOS-!!!
It is something to note that in the book by Claude Werner I mentioned, he also included the use of force policy for off duty LAPD officers that required them to be a good witness rather than feeling they had to respond to criminal activity.
Blessings to you. As magnificent of a weapon as some of the best revolvers are and as much as we appreciate them, there may be times when we'd be better served by auto cycling pistols. The robbery stakeout case involving the Browning High Power was a good example. The issue being a gunfight necessitating a higher volume of fire than can be sustained with a revolver. With criminal gang activity on the rise we'd all do well to consider the moral of tonight's story. Oftentimes we plan for what we expect but how do we know exactly what to expect and what about a contingency? I say we plan for more and be prepared. Carry your revolvers but at the same time consider what a wise man said..."one is none, and two is one." Greg please keep up the excellent work and Godspeed to all here.
@@MHLivestreamshonestly great point. In this situation in an enclosed restaurant or where ever, the fact he came out on top is pretty remarkable. A testament to being more skilled and using the element of surprise.
Thank you for your stories and insight here today. I've carried for a long time because I've been around a long time. Go figure..I'm fond of small revolvers and I'm fond of autos. Personally, I've sort of split the difference if you will after either carrying a J frame "type" setup or something akin to a G-19 or G-26. Where I've finally landed and stayed for some time now with no plans on leaving, is the 43x. This post isn't about the efficacy of the 43x, it's just where I've wound up after all this time and I got here because of scenarios like this that were mentioned today. That 43x is lightweight, (j frame) has enough capacity, (auto) is jusssttttt small enough (j frame) but yet has enough real-estate to get a positive purchase on the draw in appendix, (auto) and uses a sufficient cartridge. However and TO ME, the most important reason I can and do carry it even above all that, is the fact that even at that size and weight, I can hit consistently with it and do it past 20 yards consistently when necessary. I'm no longer handicapped by "Do I carry the j frame for convenience today or the auto for a pissible bad luck in dancing school day?" Thank you for the video.
You mentioned not wanting to face guys with three shotguns. Just watch an old Active Self Protection video from a Brazilian pool hall. Two guys lost money on a couple of games, and some patrons laughed about it. One guy had a semi-auto and dropped an individual. The other loser went to his truck and came back with a shotgun. He dropped six other patrons. One...shot...drops. One female was left unharmed.
You're going to make me tell my Buddy's BBQ standoff w 2 Pharmaceutical Entrepreneurs 2nd one wearing body armor story...newborn to my right dad stairing at me everyone tense....
Valuable lessons from this one Greg but the story about that police chief does not surprise me. Most of the chiefs I worked for came up through the system in admin jobs and hadn’t worked the street in years, if ever. As an aside I’m taking my 340PD to our police range on Tuesday so I’ll have a sore hand for a couple of days after. Take care . . .
It's funny, I worked for some good chiefs and some who weren't so good, but you are right, many get there through politics and throwing other officers under the bus. One chief though, I hated as a rookie officer, I learned to respect as I aged. If Joe Friday could be a real person, it was him. I always resented him because I felt like he kept the younger officers down. As I got older and matured I realized he was only trying to look out for us. Be safe my friend and wear gloves!
@@LionquestFitness i hope it all goes well. i just started a new school year, too. my 3rd at a private school 55 miles away, so i can keep my pension from the state of nc after retiring with 30 years of service 6 years ago. it's a really good school, but the drive to and from is not enjoyable. only 5 years and four months until 100% social security. i hope it's still going to be there.
with 3 shotguns its only by the hand of God that no bystander was hurt in that firefight. If the robbers were not going to hurt anyone but leave it might have been better to let them leave or follow their vehicle at a distance so as not to alert them. As they say hindsight is always 20/20!
Hi Greg, very informative video. Maybe it would be important to mention that if the 3 robbers had discovered the 2 armed police officers (if one did not react) they could be killed in cold blood. It would be up to the bandits. Being armed, both a civilian or a police officer, is a tough decision. God Bless. Happy trails.
A lot of high speed processing goes on in a high stress situation like that. Training has a lot to do with how you process that information and react. In one instance training solved the problem, where in the other, the lack of training led to a blind panic.
Boa noite meu amigo americano. Essa história mostra o desempenho e a mentalidade de alguém que resolveu ir a luta . Geralmente os ladrões aqui no Brasil não esperam encontrar alguma vítima armada( devido ao fato de nossas leis dificultarem o acesso as armas )e quando isso acontece, geralmente querem fugir do confronto. Esses dias vi num canal americano, dois homens discutindo no trânsito, ambos armados com pistolas , por muito sangue frio e pela mão de Deus,não acabou em tragédia. Não sei se o Sr viu esse vídeo. Obrigado pelo trabalho, Deus abençoe sempre o senhor e sua família. Deus abençoe as Américas 🇧🇷🤝🇺🇲🙏🏻
Um argumento de tráfego é o último lugar em que você deseja exibir uma arma de fogo. Eu sei que você vai concordar, mas é melhor se desculpar e seguir em frente do que sentir que precisa defender seus direitos.
That restaurant situation is one where I hope I wouldn't panic! I would like to think I would just let everything unfold because five shots is only five shots. It would also be embarrassing to grab one of the shotguns in battle and find out it was never loaded or just didn't work! I mean you never know.
I've always been of the opinion that if you were solo and facing multiple armed attackers, there would be a point where you were gonna be screwed no matter how many rounds your handgun carries. I know the situation dictates, and scenarios are all different.
I certainly believe that to be true, but recently I looked that saying up and found it came from the lips of the cowardly knight Falstaff from Shakespeare. However, even a broken clock is right twice a day, and even a coward can recognize truth.
Please don’t listen to or believe anything you hear from someone who says they were law enforcement or whatever, unless you know who and it what they have accomplished, some people just THINK THEY KNOW !! Thanks Greg!!!
what limitations? It can save your life. Besides the long heavy trigger pull, poor gutter sights that are not night sights, short sight radius, short barrel with a slow medium sized cartidge....oh yeh...and only 5 rounds available before the very simple and quick task of unloading, making sure all the cases got extracted, acquiring your speed loader or speed strip, lining up the cartridges....all while keeping your eye on the threat...I have 4 snubbies.
Yes it is a 5 possibly a 6 shot revolver short barrel and no target sights it was designed to be fast handling and to be carried in a coat pocket or under clothing and not print so folks would not someone was carrying a pistol a belly gun for lack of a better term as for carrying semi auto it holds more rounds in smaller calibers but are you going to get into a gun Battle with a pocket pistol ? I read that most incidents. are less than 7 Yards isn't that what most police academy teaches? You are not about to engage at 30 plus yards with a "pocket pistols" if that happens run away
I don't know what the aftermath was, but I've certainly worked for chiefs who had a similar mentality. BTW - I got my CA Mag Pug last week. It was a disappointment. I already have to send it back because the cylinder locks up and won't turn. But, that is the way things go with revolvers these days no matter who makes them.
I carried a 5-shot Taurus until a retired ofc told me a story in which an off duty ofc intervened in a domestic and shot the guy, but he ran out of ammo, then the guy pulled out a 9mm and shot him up. 😱
Good Video, don't be a John Wane unless you are trained and proficient in the fire arm you carry. I myself would have turned over my cash to the bad guys.
I think no matter what I was carrying, I would just sit there and be a good witness unless the BGs opened up first. Chances of making things worse are just too high. I am not John Wick, and the guy sitting at the next table, or the next keyboard, is not, contrary to his fantasy, Ethan Hunt. ( :
@@LionquestFitness Scandium frame,, 29 oz snub nose revolver..shoots Federal 410 2 1/2 four pellet 000 buckshot,,.45 Colt.. and .45 ACP, in moon clips..
@@LionquestFitness Out to about 15 feet, the buckshot stays together like The Blue Angels...If you'd like to see that,, go to RUclips and look for an upload from Jerry Miculek called "The Governor Has Returned"....at around 3:43 of the video..
As usual Greg, great advise. I noticed you clarified the sources of the article you previously presented... kinda puts down your detractor 😊 I thi k I got the gist of your video. Know your limitations based on circumstances and evaluate your strengths in that situation, at that time, then act or not. I hope you keeping notes... might make a good addition to some manual in future 😊 (Notice I didn't mention bandanas once 😊)
Too complicated for most to follow this argument? Story? War story.m Take away? Sorry, in a crowded restaurant, if your the hi power guy in this story at a minimum your gonna set off a turkey shoot. 3 criminals robbing a crouded buiseness shows they are gonna open fire more often than not. You never even went into the story of how the hi power guy pulled this off?????? The cop with the j fram would also have set off the carnage. Bad story. Best for both these heros? To sit on their guns and wait it out. If all hell breaks loose they can take out a perp or 3 but to expose thenselfves as you describe would be a desaster. And at a minimum hi power cop could be held liable for all this. If he were a civilian looki to be a hero he would be put in jail a long time. Bad story in so many ways.
Unless they are shooting people, I’m not drawing against 3 guys with shotguns.
I love J frame revolvers.
Agreed, they're reliable and easily used.
...a man's gotta know his limitations...
Exactly what I was thinking. Great minds...
I don't think anyone says a five shot revolver is to be used for gun battles in law enforcement. But a good pocket revolver that you carry almost anywhere beats that big high-capacity weapon that is home in your bedroom drawer.
That is true.
"sometimes it would pay to be a good witness rather than to go into action" -okay.
Happy Saturday my friend! Last friday i stopped at the gun shop and was planning on buying an old model 60 … the hammer was bobbed and had a big old grip on it… It kind of turned me of. I didn’t give it much thought and i left empty handed! I had a gorgeous model 60 a few years ago. i sold it and still regret it!
Go back and get it Adam. You can easily change those grips.
It another! Wasa deal.
There is a great channel on here called gunblue490 a guy who was classicly trained by s&w how to build, and repair their revolvers. He has said the modern s&w are even better then the old ones, be has a great video demonstrating part by part, how modern s&w revolvers like the model 60 (you can do "lock delete" if the "hilary hole" bothers you) are even better then they used to make. Less likely to break, better tolerances, more durable many regards. People VASTLY underestimate modern s&w revolvers. I OWN 2 j frames that are both modern makes and both are incredible for $100-200 more then a ruger LCR its a whole different category of gun, in terms of quality, fit and finish, sights, trigger, grips/stocks options for holsters.. j frames are AMAZING still in 2024. They learn and improve with each dash model.. going to quote a smith & wesson forum member named time tripper whos written out all the changes of the model 60 with each dash - change..
Quote: "Looking at the SCSW 3rd, the model 60 has gone through quite a few changes over the years. Early no dash model had no R prefix serial numbers.
The -1, as K22 stated, is a rare heavy barrel version. The pinned barrel was deleted in 1982 but apparently did not result in a dash change.
Dash 3 in 1988 denoted a change to the new yoke retention system.
Dash 4 was a limited production of a full under lug target version.
Dash 5 were DA only guns made for the NYCPD.
Dash 6 are the introduction of a LadySmith version.
Dash 7 denotes an increase in the sight width to 1/8" and a heat treatment package.
Dash 8 - same as -7 but for NYCPD.
Dash 9 was the introduction of the mewer J magnum frame and cylinder to allow chambering to 357 mag in all2" fixed sighted guns.
Dash 10 was a target version of the 357 mag.
Dash 11, 12, and 13 guns had changes made in 1996 to the frame design of 38 special versions of the model 60.
Dash 14 through 17 denote the intro of the internal lock in the various versions ( Lady Smith, target 38s and 357 mag).
and lastly... the Dash 18 is a key lock equipped, 5" target model with a new 2 piece barrel design.
Hope this helps."
A solid presentation. I served in three departments (the first as a young reserve) and under four Chiefs. Two didn't possess the maturity equal to their ages... I saw both replaced. The other two should have been cloned. I've only seen a few videos on this channel, but so far, I am impressed. It stresses the importance of KNOWLEDGE... Proper knowledge. New sub.
Thanks, I have many former or retired officers who follow this channel. We don't always agree on the minors, but we mostly agree on the things that are important.
👍 that decision took a lot of confidence / guts. Guessing the officer put in a lot of training time and practice. Good example “always be prepared for the unexpected”.
It presents an interesting problem and thoughtful reflection. What would you do? For some people to think is to act; most times brought on by training. Yet, the decision process still clicks though; only at a more rapid speed.
@3Pillers "...hope for the best...expect the worst
Always love your revolver vids, Greg!!! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
You made some excellent points. Back in the 90s, I carried a .357 Magnum version of the Model 60 as a BUG and for off duty occasionally, particularly to church, and more often than not in an ankle holster. Two potential incidents, however, got me rethinking that gear. First was a Pizza Hut after church with the family. I always sat at the back table, back the wall and one day watched a couple of incredibly suspicious characters come in, hanging around a video game near the entrance/restrooms/cash registers. Maybe they were there to pick up and order but something about them looked off. From a seated position, I had about as good of access to the 5-shot on the ankle as on my hip. They finally left - don’t recall if the left with any food. The second time was a trip to the grocery store before church. Encounter a likely felon/gang member who seemed to eyeball me pretty hard. I had encountered others who seemed to recognize me from the job that I couldn’t recall ever meeting. The 5-shot on the ankle seemed as far away as my home. Third eye went active and I made my purchase and left without incident. Not saying that a 5-shot is not sufficient for most considering the odds of something occurring, depending on location, location, location, but got to weigh the potential threats with potential courses of action. I’d rather have a 5-shot than a harsh word or a pointy stick (or OC on a windy day), but with your choice of carry comes the responsibility to consider how bad you want to walk in bear country while wearing brisket aftershave…
Good analysis and points. Unfortunately, we are falling apart as a society, and as things worsen, personal carry changes.
Thanks Greg. Great job. Good info. God bless. Happy trails.
Vaya con Dios!
Very good advice from that story. Thanks, Greg. Stay frosty.
Another great video full of good information and common sense. Love these front porch videos.
I'm glad you like them. I may be integrating this more into the future.
Hi Greg, some wise words there. Carry what you shoot best and are comfortable with. Always carry and train train train. Have situation awareness. Thank you Sir for your hard work and time you are appreciated.
Good advice from anyone.
I have two 38 special Ruger's. Hammer and hammerless, made out of titanium. They are so light I can carry them in my waistband of my athletic shorts, and it's almost as if I forget what I'm carrying. But I only carry them in the "war zone" known as Walmart.
Oh my ! Sad fights are good there remain calm.
There is no replacement for common sense. Having been involved in three shootings as a peace officer, and investigated officer involved shootings during my career provided me with many lessons. Above all, think. Use your head. Unless right on top of you, wait for the most advantages moment. "Collateral Damage" is unacceptable. Human life is priceless, and cannot be replaced. Money and objects can be. Don't be the one saying "If only I had waited..." with a bystander being shot.
A lot of rapid fire analysis has to occur. For a few, it occurs naturally. For most it comes from training. The Roman Vegetius wrote a maxim about the training of the Roman soldier that always stuck with me. "Few are born brave, but many become so through the force and care of discipline."
I carry a 5 shot 357 for several reasons. As bad as it may sound, due to the current environment and state of the world, I'm simply out here to protect myself. I'm no longer serving this country, I am no longer a medical professional, I am strictly a civilian trying to survive. The gun I carry reflects that. If circumstances change where hero's are no longer vilified, gun restrictions are removed, and people become thankful again, then I will carry a firearm that reflects my choice to protect others.
Well said.
Absolutely...I carry my sidearm for one purpose only, to help get me home to my family should something go wrong...
@@Iluvbisquits Yep, same here.
I couldn't agree more! I've been telling the same thing to friends and acquaintances recently. I chose the M&P 340.
Excellent information, Greg!
It would be interesting to see an in depth analysis of that story. Just from what was told, I'd be VERY reluctant to start a gun fight in a crowded space with 4 criminals using shotguns. Depending on the size of the space and the number of customers, the collateral damage potential seems like it would be off the charts. One podunk town police chief going a little nuts waiving a revolver after the fact is barely a consideration. But the officer involved made the call and it worked out, so it must've been the right one. As they say on the Active Self Protection channel, "success is the best deodorant."
Decades later, I'd agree. The only reason I see responding was if someone was directly being threatened with death. In this case, it worked, but we also used to call risking your life and the life of others needlessly, Tombstone Courage. Of course, today in similar circumstances, the lawsuits would have flowed from the customers traumatized and the criminals shot.
Wise words, Greg. I usually have a 5 or 6 shot revolver with me, and the multiple attacker scenario is always in the back of my mind.
The only time I thought I was going to have to draw my revolver, it was in response to 3 young men who had been following me. They started yelling at me to stop and "show them my boots." I knew what was going on and was able to step inside a restaurant until they were gone. Situation avoided...
I had a Taurus 85 in my waistband at the time, and while I was very glad it was with me, I distinctly remember feeling under-gunned. Especially if they were all armed as well.
Again, wise words - thanks for the video!
Great Advice, Greg. I run through me vs bad guy situations in my mind, often wondering if I’m going to do more harm than good. I’ve been carrying my 12 round P365 for a couple of months, having realized the limitations of a revolver.
Times are changing and many areas of our country are no longer as safe as they once were.
@@LionquestFitness After the elections in November, I might even carry a spare magazine.
@@frankbutta9344id consider carrying some medical if you dont already. We are more likely to need a tourniquet then a spare mag from the data activr self protection has reviewed. 4k+ citizen involved self defense shootings, only 1 had a reload and its cuz he half loads the magazines to not ruin spring in pakistan or india or something. All the other cases shot what they had in the gun and that was enough. Many also got hit and the ones who had medical almost always survived vs ones who dont
Great video Greg. Yes, a man or woman must know the limitations of their CCW, but most importantly, their own limitations.
Excellent video, knowing your limitations is the cap stone of survival. That chief sounds like a real idiot, hopefully he never got any of his officers or citizens hurt.
Great video Greg great info
A Browning Hi-Power is a great gun, but you have to be either crazy, or crazy good, to take on three guys armed with shotguns.
I will say that it has been my experience that there is an advantage of acting quickly and aggressively. It tends to shock most peoples senses and causes them to hesitate. But three guys with shotguns is a pretty big bet. The Chief was an idiot. If you have to shout "I'm the King", you are not "the King". .
😄I'll be happy to stay a humble servant.
I'm not sure any hand gun + back up gun combo could make the 1 pistol shooter vs 3 shotgunners be the one with the good odds. Absolutely incredible what the element of surprise, skill disparity, and violence of action is capable of doing. Theres many stories from LEO to military, of one badass man, taking down 3 or in some cases more armed individuals with equal or greater arms. Never underestimate the human ability to survive even through incredibly dangerous and difficult situations!
GREAT video Greg. I have thought about many of those scenarios in various public locations before & since retiring.
Thanks Cleon. You know, I started to send you the rant that guy gave me about "tenth hand war stories," but why share toxic behavior?
@@LionquestFitness YUP & we know from experience OTJ that toxic behavior & firearms don't mix.
Thank you for another great informative video
I view my EDC firearms as tools - bring the right tool or tools
Also know your realistic ability and limitations with your chosen EDC tool
As a lifetime martial artist - I did not embrace firearms until I was diagnosed with cancer - a firearm affords me the ability to continue to have the ability to protect my family and self
a Snubby revolver provides these advantages and when needed - it can have the additional EDC tool of higher capacity
………… THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR GREAT VIDEOS-!!!
@@edbarton-rz9cs Thank you for your input.
Thank you very much. This was very interesting. Obviously, the life of an off duty police officer contains situations that are very difficult.
It is something to note that in the book by Claude Werner I mentioned, he also included the use of force policy for off duty LAPD officers that required them to be a good witness rather than feeling they had to respond to criminal activity.
@@LionquestFitness thank you very much. I'll hâve to read his books
CZ P07 one of the best pistols ever made reminds me of HK USP models. In my opinion the P07 might be of better quality.
I don't know about the HK, but I am fond of the PO7.
Awesome video.
Blessings to you. As magnificent of a weapon as some of the best revolvers are and as much as we appreciate them, there may be times when we'd be better served by auto cycling pistols. The robbery stakeout case involving the Browning High Power was a good example. The issue being a gunfight necessitating a higher volume of fire than can be sustained with a revolver. With criminal gang activity on the rise we'd all do well to consider the moral of tonight's story. Oftentimes we plan for what we expect but how do we know exactly what to expect and what about a contingency? I say we plan for more and be prepared. Carry your revolvers but at the same time consider what a wise man said..."one is none, and two is one." Greg please keep up the excellent work and Godspeed to all here.
@@hessdefense 8-shot. 357 and 15 round 9mm here.
Ah yes, the great Clint Smith. There's nothing wrong with a New York reload when packing revolvers either. Depending on your local of course.
Times are changing in this country, and not for the better. Thank you for your post and the Good Lord above bless you.
The last point you made, the point about opportunity cost, could you make another video going deeper into that?
@@danieldelewis2448 I can.
@@LionquestFitness that's great. Thank you
Morning Greg, thanks for sharing. Have a pleasent Lord's day and Labor day. God bless, Rob
The Good Lord Bless you Sir!
Shotguns vs handguns,,not good odds for the one carrying a handgun.
Depends on barrel lengths and distance.
@@MHLivestreamshonestly great point. In this situation in an enclosed restaurant or where ever, the fact he came out on top is pretty remarkable. A testament to being more skilled and using the element of surprise.
@jackgreenstalk777 That's true.I should had included some exceptions like that in my comment.
@@jackgreenstalk777 totally. The penalty for making mistakes in that scenario could easily have been very messy. No room for error.
Thanks again
Excellent last point.
Other than my mossberg similar to yours,j -frame revolvers is all i have, so they will have to make do, i do love their simplicity!
@@janmale7767 The simple manual of arms is one of the endearing qualities of a J frame.
Thank you for your stories and insight here today. I've carried for a long time because I've been around a long time. Go figure..I'm fond of small revolvers and I'm fond of autos. Personally, I've sort of split the difference if you will after either carrying a J frame "type" setup or something akin to a G-19 or G-26. Where I've finally landed and stayed for some time now with no plans on leaving, is the 43x. This post isn't about the efficacy of the 43x, it's just where I've wound up after all this time and I got here because of scenarios like this that were mentioned today. That 43x is lightweight, (j frame) has enough capacity, (auto) is jusssttttt small enough (j frame) but yet has enough real-estate to get a positive purchase on the draw in appendix, (auto) and uses a sufficient cartridge. However and TO ME, the most important reason I can and do carry it even above all that, is the fact that even at that size and weight, I can hit consistently with it and do it past 20 yards consistently when necessary. I'm no longer handicapped by "Do I carry the j frame for convenience today or the auto for a pissible bad luck in dancing school day?"
Thank you for the video.
My friend Cleon Dubois has also settled on the 43X for daily carry. It is one I've been considering for awhile.
You mentioned not wanting to face guys with three shotguns. Just watch an old Active Self Protection video from a Brazilian pool hall. Two guys lost money on a couple of games, and some patrons laughed about it. One guy had a semi-auto and dropped an individual. The other loser went to his truck and came back with a shotgun. He dropped six other patrons. One...shot...drops. One female was left unharmed.
👍👍Thanks Greg, always appreciate your videos and knowledge.
Thank you.
You're going to make me tell my Buddy's BBQ standoff w 2 Pharmaceutical Entrepreneurs 2nd one wearing body armor story...newborn to my right dad stairing at me everyone tense....
You better tell that story!
Valuable lessons from this one Greg but the story about that police chief does not surprise me. Most of the chiefs I worked for came up through the system in admin jobs and hadn’t worked the street in years, if ever. As an aside I’m taking my 340PD to our police range on Tuesday so I’ll have a sore hand for a couple of days after. Take care . . .
It's funny, I worked for some good chiefs and some who weren't so good, but you are right, many get there through politics and throwing other officers under the bus. One chief though, I hated as a rookie officer, I learned to respect as I aged. If Joe Friday could be a real person, it was him. I always resented him because I felt like he kept the younger officers down. As I got older and matured I realized he was only trying to look out for us. Be safe my friend and wear gloves!
My edc is the unbelievable smith and Wesson 637 snubby it’s unbelievable and definitely gets the job done
“A man’s got to know his limitations.”
Now who said that? 🤔
Happy Labor Day to you and yours. 🇺🇸
Clint Esstwood?
I started to include that, but didn't want people accusing me of channeling Dirty Harry.
@@LionquestFitness 😁
great points again, greg. i hope all is going well.
Just very busy here lately. I started a new school year with a lot of changes.
@@LionquestFitness i hope it all goes well. i just started a new school year, too. my 3rd at a private school 55 miles away, so i can keep my pension from the state of nc after retiring with 30 years of service 6 years ago. it's a really good school, but the drive to and from is not enjoyable. only 5 years and four months until 100% social security. i hope it's still going to be there.
Well said. I appreciate your knowledge and experience, and your willingness to share it. 👍🏻
God Bless you my friend!
with 3 shotguns its only by the hand of God that no bystander was hurt in that firefight. If the robbers were not going to hurt anyone but leave it might have been better to let them leave or follow their vehicle at a distance so as not to alert them. As they say hindsight is always 20/20!
Very tough decisions to process rapidly.
@@LionquestFitnessamen to that.
Good video with something to think about!
Hi Greg, very informative video. Maybe it would be important to mention that if the 3 robbers had discovered the 2 armed police officers (if one did not react) they could be killed in cold blood. It would be up to the bandits. Being armed, both a civilian or a police officer, is a tough decision. God Bless. Happy trails.
A lot of high speed processing goes on in a high stress situation like that. Training has a lot to do with how you process that information and react. In one instance training solved the problem, where in the other, the lack of training led to a blind panic.
Great video
Boa noite meu amigo americano. Essa história mostra o desempenho e a mentalidade de alguém que resolveu ir a luta . Geralmente os ladrões aqui no Brasil não esperam encontrar alguma vítima armada( devido ao fato de nossas leis dificultarem o acesso as armas )e quando isso acontece, geralmente querem fugir do confronto. Esses dias vi num canal americano, dois homens discutindo no trânsito, ambos armados com pistolas , por muito sangue frio e pela mão de Deus,não acabou em tragédia. Não sei se o Sr viu esse vídeo. Obrigado pelo trabalho, Deus abençoe sempre o senhor e sua família. Deus abençoe as Américas 🇧🇷🤝🇺🇲🙏🏻
Um argumento de tráfego é o último lugar em que você deseja exibir uma arma de fogo. Eu sei que você vai concordar, mas é melhor se desculpar e seguir em frente do que sentir que precisa defender seus direitos.
@@LionquestFitness exatamente, e é muito mais barato que qualquer advogado.
I would say fighting against three shotgun wielding opponents is going to be a tough battle, no matter what handgun you are carrying.
That restaurant situation is one where I hope I wouldn't panic! I would like to think I would just let everything unfold because five shots is only five shots. It would also be embarrassing to grab one of the shotguns in battle and find out it was never loaded or just didn't work! I mean you never know.
Always words of wisdom. Thank you, once again.
Thank you Edward.
Was the officers name Harry... ?
Not in this case 😉
I've always been of the opinion that if you were solo and facing multiple armed attackers, there would be a point where you were gonna be screwed no matter how many rounds your handgun carries. I know the situation dictates, and scenarios are all different.
In other words, discretion is the better part of valor.
I certainly believe that to be true, but recently I looked that saying up and found it came from the lips of the cowardly knight Falstaff from Shakespeare. However, even a broken clock is right twice a day, and even a coward can recognize truth.
My KAHR PM9 goes everywhere and very easily.
Please don’t listen to or believe anything you hear from someone who says they were law enforcement or whatever, unless you know who and it what they have accomplished, some people just THINK THEY KNOW !! Thanks Greg!!!
Thank you.
Great story here 👍
Finish your dinner and let them rob the store.
😆Good advice.
thank you greg once again great vidio and full of information have a great labor day sir
Les, have a blessed day off!
what limitations? It can save your life. Besides the long heavy trigger pull, poor gutter sights that are not night sights, short sight radius, short barrel with a slow medium sized cartidge....oh yeh...and only 5 rounds available before the very simple and quick task of unloading, making sure all the cases got extracted, acquiring your speed loader or speed strip, lining up the cartridges....all while keeping your eye on the threat...I have 4 snubbies.
Thanks for the great video
Have a HAPPY LABOR DAY WEEKEND 🎉🎉🎉
Enjoy your day off tomorrow.
Yes it is a 5 possibly a 6 shot revolver short barrel and no target sights it was designed to be fast handling and to be carried in a coat pocket or under clothing and not print so folks would not someone was carrying a pistol a belly gun for lack of a better term as for carrying semi auto it holds more rounds in smaller calibers but are you going to get into a gun Battle with a pocket pistol ? I read that most incidents. are less than 7 Yards isn't that what most police academy teaches?
You are not about to engage at 30 plus yards with a "pocket pistols" if that happens run away
Sounds like that Chief took the " special " description a bit too seriously.
Great video, as always. Sounds like that police chief should've been fired.
I don't know what the aftermath was, but I've certainly worked for chiefs who had a similar mentality. BTW - I got my CA Mag Pug last week. It was a disappointment. I already have to send it back because the cylinder locks up and won't turn. But, that is the way things go with revolvers these days no matter who makes them.
@@LionquestFitness Their Customer Service is really excellent
I carried a 5-shot Taurus until a retired ofc told me a story in which an off duty ofc intervened in a domestic and shot the guy, but he ran out of ammo, then the guy pulled out a 9mm and shot him up. 😱
@@Vernonu9 Definitely a bad day.
Run out 5 round’s ?
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍😎
Thanks for sharing that story Greg. Hope you and your family enjoy your weekend. 🇺🇲🌲🔥🔪
You do the same Jason!
Greg, good story. I'm in charge! Not.
😅
3 down rapscallions 🙏
Good Video, don't be a John Wane unless you are trained and proficient in the fire arm you carry. I myself would have turned over my cash to the bad guys.
I think no matter what I was carrying, I would just sit there and be a good witness unless the BGs opened up first. Chances of making things worse are just too high. I am not John Wick, and the guy sitting at the next table, or the next keyboard, is not, contrary to his fantasy, Ethan Hunt. ( :
Good point. I had to google Ethan Hunt though. Shows you how little I know about popular culture.
Went to the Z frame..little bit more flexibility.
What is a Z frame?
@@LionquestFitness Scandium frame,, 29 oz snub nose revolver..shoots Federal 410 2 1/2 four pellet 000 buckshot,,.45 Colt.. and .45 ACP, in moon clips..
@@4catsnow interesting.
@@LionquestFitness Out to about 15 feet, the buckshot stays together like The Blue Angels...If you'd like to see that,, go to RUclips and look for an upload from Jerry Miculek called "The Governor Has Returned"....at around 3:43 of the video..
As usual Greg, great advise.
I noticed you clarified the sources of the article you previously presented... kinda puts down your detractor 😊
I thi k I got the gist of your video.
Know your limitations based on circumstances and evaluate your strengths in that situation, at that time, then act or not.
I hope you keeping notes... might make a good addition to some manual in future 😊
(Notice I didn't mention bandanas once 😊)
You didn't mention bandanas except at the end. 😂
@@tylermorrison7051 Yes mate it was a secret message 👍( only those in the know read what's between the ( and ) 😀😃🙂🙃😊
@@lesgillard985 I started to jazz up the avatar for this video with a red bandanna. Gosh darn it, I missed my opportunity.
@LionquestFitness Grambo that was a missed opportunity 😢
(But get a 🌈 coloured one 😱)
Glock 19 >
I have one of those too.
Too complicated for most to follow this argument? Story? War story.m Take away? Sorry, in a crowded restaurant, if your the hi power guy in this story at a minimum your gonna set off a turkey shoot. 3 criminals robbing a crouded buiseness shows they are gonna open fire more often than not. You never even went into the story of how the hi power guy pulled this off?????? The cop with the j fram would also have set off the carnage. Bad story. Best for both these heros? To sit on their guns and wait it out. If all hell breaks loose they can take out a perp or 3 but to expose thenselfves as you describe would be a desaster. And at a minimum hi power cop could be held liable for all this. If he were a civilian looki to be a hero he would be put in jail a long time. Bad story in so many ways.
Remember the time period and who the officer was. It wasn't today. Context is king.
@@la_old_salt2241 That is what I was going to say. As to how he pulled it off, that wasn't related in the account I read.