Look, as far as *I'm* concerned (in other words, I'm only speaking for myself), John could literally commit Call Of Duty level war crimes and I'd still forgive him. But only on the condition that he eats more Caribbean food. Otherwise, he's going to get tortured worse than Griffith.
I think Jon and Woolie have a special kind of friendship. I think we all want that friend who is excited to talk to you about literally anything you're interested in.
I can believe the claims that "the Shibuya Incident isn't what could have been". I loved the Mahoraga vs Sukuna episode, but the Blu-Ray adding entire minutes of fight scene to that episode that were unfinished at time of release really made me realize what a clusterfuck was happening behind the scenes. Especially with how the legendary animator Hakuyu Go (who worked on that episode) is apparently donezo with Mappa after what went down.
I have no idea how Woolie comes to the conclusion that Sukuna's message to Jogo was "Sucks to suck" it is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT. He steps into his death dream and goes "You were cool, actually. Good try."
@@wielderofthetriforce1934 There's nothing to interpret! Sukuna shows up and literally gases him up, he says NOTHING but compliments! He talks about how even in the Heian era Jogo would have been considered among the top Curses, that he had fun fighting him, and that he was strong! All with a completely straight face! It's one of the defining moments of Sukuna's character. It's the thing that makes him more than a mustach twirling villain, his positive trait is that he recognizes and acknowledges the virtues of others! I think we need to stop saying Woolie "Misinterprets" things. He doesn't. He just forgets how they happened and then makes up a story in his head that he thinks more or less sounds right.
@@fell5514 i guess he thought Sukuna might have been facetious, because of how much of a bastard he is. Not saying Woolie isn't still wrong in thinking that tho, with how Sukuna doesn't, at any point, pull any joke or trick during that moment to ruin Jogo's moment during death. He does that moment complete straight, giving the audience no reason to expect him to be disingenuous in the praise he was giving.
Great podcast so far, but I think Mascara Snake-kuns mic might be off 'cause I'm not hearing him AT ALL, and that's a problem because he's my favorite host 🐍
I feel like John really isn't doing himself any favors on the "I'm not the Villain of this podcast!" front when he's rocking Malevolent Shrine on the thumbnail
Watching the friendship era is like reading the golden age arc, because its so beautiful to watch these people open up to each other, and you just know that one little change in outlook is going to lead to horrible events
So unbelievably hyped that you guys are talking Twin Peaks this time! I literally finished watching the show for the first time like 2 months ago. I absolutely loved it. One of the best shows I’ve ever watched. So ready for this!
In Dale Cooper's defense, literally the entire world was like YOWZA seeing Sherilyn Fenn as Audrey. It helped that she was actually like 24-25 when they were filming.
3:11:03 ok this is just wrong, Choso says that he can feel anything that happens to his blood related brothers so when Yuji near dies he senses him almost dying making him realize that Yuji is actually his brother, the memories don't have anything to do with sukuna it's literally just to visualize Choso seeing yuji alongside all of his siblings
Common misconception. When the manga dropped and even when the season was new people were still confused about all that. It took several more volumes before the twist stuck for a lot of people.
@@matehiqu9905 That's valid but the issue is that it's not a spoiler. You're supposed to take what Choso says at face value, the author just did a really bad job presenting it and opened the door to alternative explanations.
I think one aspect of Twin Peaks that sadly often gets overshadowed by Lynch is Mark Frost. One the main reasons Twin Peaks doesn't feel as weird and far out as other Lynch works is partly his influence in both the production and the screen writing. Most of the parts of the show that aren't traditionally "Lynchian" are most likely his contribution and so it's a bit sad to barely hear him mentioned in discussions about the show and how most people assume this is just Lynch being held back or underdeveloped
Also I think people tend to play up Lynch's eccentricities as a writer/director. He definitely prefers the weird and abstract but he's also perfectly capable of writing a more straightforward grounded story.
@@-Fraud Oh absolutely, but him going "Oh yeah I know what's going on here." when I know for a fact that he can't and then makes up an explanation is very funny, especially by it supposing that Sukuna would ever care about protecting Yuji in any situation
It’s even more frustrating because there’s literally nothing to speculate about. It’s outright confirmed by the end of the season but I guess either they both weren’t paying attention or just completely forgot
@@31Moth13 I don't expect him to be correct until Mama Kenjaku is shown, but I also think going "Yeah here's what happened" when there's no possibility he could've known and then getting it wrong is just funny
1:40:15 I don't think this is Lynch hating his audience per say... more or less it was like, "OK, you think this murder mystery is fun and quirky but here's the thing; brutal murder IS brutal murder!" David was like; "here is what happened exactly. Do you feel better about what you've seen? Because this is the truth." FWWM is grim! Dark! And will hurt to watch; but it all makes sense... especially if you have seen the full series.
I could write a full essay on how using the magical realism within the world of twin peaks to create and endearing and silly scene that also shortens the long crime procedural process of an investigation of all of the POIs is so genius
Sonething I really love about Twin Peaks that differentiates it even more from the TV shows at the time is it was shot on location. It gives so many more scenes so much more depth than they would have on a set. They're able to do so many more interesting camera angles and lighting than they would be able to if there weren't a 4th wall there.
3:07:37 Exactly! This is why the Choso fight is my favorite in the entire season, I just enjoy a lot more a well choreographed and directed fight scene than the spectacle of laser beams and shit being thrown around. Similar reason why my favorite fight of Mob Psycho 100 is the one with the Blind Teleporter Guy
Btw, I feel like Gojo and Jogo are named the way they are is to draw attention to the only similarity they really have after you see the outcome of their meeting. They both are motivated across the series to support their tribe with everything they have. Gojo builds the sorcerers up, Jogo seeks the same for cursed spirits. They are both recognized for that by the other characters specifically.
I looked at the runtime for the first time when John reminded us this was the first triple-topic at 6:06 and holy crap, 4 hours of Versus Wolves??? We're eating good today folks
Hey Versus Wolves. I just wanted to say thank you. Its been a really rough month but through the power of anime, friendship, spite, and *legal and safe amounts of mind altering substances*, your podcast helped me get my depressed body out of bed on more than on occasion. But also now i have thoughts on twin peaks and im annoying everyone. But on the plus side an afro Carribean place opened up within walking distance and the roti is life changing.
My favorite memory from video games as a kid was my mom coming by while my brother and I were playing Tenkaichi and she saw me lose a character to Hercule and made fun of me for it cause she knew Hercule from just seeing him randomly sometimes when we would watch DBZ
The Big Lebowski is a VERY American movie. Consider this: The three main characters, the Dude, Donny, and Walter, they all represent modern day American Politics and now ridiculous they are.
Shocked to see Jon bring up Re:Zero again for that fun little comparison about things people find overrated. I do still think what the story is actually about would be completely up his alley (it's probably one of the greatest stories of empathy, depression, and learning how to love yourself and others out there period.) but it's fair to be turned off before you get to that point or cus of other little things/personal tastes. These are still great as ever tho, friendship era is peak c:
I adore Re:Zero but I also have accepted that if someone bounces off of it that there's nothing anyone can say or do that will change thier mind. But that's ok since it's still able to reach those that are actually in need of its message.
@@PredictableEnigma Its one of those shows that you either hit or miss with. It really doesn't help that the main character is built to specifically shoot a kind of person in the face with "YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE" then *reload* and fire again with "AND YOU COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF YOU TRIED"
Choso's memory shenanigans were explained in series. They do not have to do with Sukuna. Choso can feel his connection to his brothers, especially when they die. He said in one of the final episodes he could feel that same connection as Yuji was about to be killed by him. This lead him to believe that they must be related by blood
Sukuna has no memory powers. What actually happened is that Choso sensed his brother's death so hard when he was about to kill him, he got fake memories of it.
I wish I did, but I know the animation is at least half the fun, so I'll happily tank the spoilers. ...Again, because I've already seen stuff about the Shibuya Incident.
The idea that Lynch has broken the ceiling on the Inland Empire stat is confirmed for me by The actor that he cast to be a kind of spirit or embodiment of the concept of wife m-urder, ended up being put on trial for k-illing his wife IN REAL LIFE. And years before that happened, David Lynch looked at this guy and thought, "He seems perfect for this!"
I find Wild at Heart hilarious, but it's also not a good example of Lynch because he didn't write it, it was based on someone else's novel. It definitely is an extreme departure from everything else he has ever done.
Twin Perfect's explanation of Twin Peaks is by far the best I've seen and it fully explains why Lynch said it was good that an eight year old found it traumatic. I didn't see it until I was an adult, but it's legit some of the scariest TV I've ever seen.
I love Dale Cooper's techniques like the rock throwing. It reminds me of the Dirk Gently character from Douglas Adams' books (Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency and The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul). A private investigator who investigates based on the interconnectedness of all things. In one of the books you learn that his method of navigation when driving is to just pick another car and follow it, trusting that while it may not lead him to where he intends to go, it will lead him to where he needs to be.
God I wish I felt like you guys did about Shibuya. If anything, the hype surrounding the arc made it more disappointing than its average arc. It's not that I didn't enjoy any of it, but what I enjoyed was far outweighed by what I didn't. I heard someone describe JJK as "hype moments with weak connective tissue," and I couldn't agree more. And the problem with that for me is I can't find hype moments hype if I don't have that reason to be invested. And Shibuya lacked that throughout most of it. Technically all conflict in fiction is contrived, but the thing is you're not supposed to notice or feel that. Almost every fight in the Shibuya Incident felt contrived IMO.
Well, for the first time in my listening of this podcast im going to be skipping a section. I wanted to watch Twin Peaks for the longest time, and this bookclub thing was an excellent motivator to finally do so. Sadly, this month was buisy and I couldn't quite do it. So, until such time as I have finished Twin Peaks, I'll skip that section! See you fine gents next month!
Though to be clear, I will listen to the rest of it now. Need to get some Caribbean food too. Not sure how good the Caribbean is in Alaska but I will find out ...
One interesting thing about Mahoraga is its theorized that people in the Zenin clan like Toji, could probably help Ten-Shadow Users subjugate Mahoraga because he wouldn't "count" as being a part of the Ritual as he doesn't have any cursed energy. But because the Zenin's constantly ostracize people like Toji this never materializes.
Sherlock vs Moriarty in that RDJ movie does something similar 3:19:00 where sherlock is analyzing the fight and Moriarty as his equal basically goes, "Ok now here is my turn predicting the fight"
So the less Lynchian aspects of Twin Peaks is thanks to Mark Frost, the writer. He and Lynch collaborated in a heart-brain kind of way of writing the story.
That little point about the "did you get it?" angle is so true. Ironically, the time I've most experienced this in my life was with twin peaks season 3 fanboys. I loved season 1 and 2 and thought season 3 was terrible, but David Lynch fanboys cannot fathom that anything he makes can be just bad and pretentious and you can dislike it, no, they'll come up with a billion contrived made up analyses and praise of 18 hours of boring nonsense that could be presented in 6 (or less) just as effectively, and if you still think it's bad then you just "didn't get it".
It's very bad faith to present it as The Return fans not actually realizing it's bad. And then saying the analysis is made up and contrived does not help your case either.
Season 3 is hard to love, but if you can, it is really special. I wouldn't blame anyone for recoiling from it. I agree that it would benefit from being shorter, even as a fan of Inland Empire. I think I was prepared for its more difficult to swallow elements because I had seen his other movies like Inland Empire, which is a similarly taxing watch. And I don't think Lynch is infallible, for example, I don't really think Blue Velvet is that good or interesting, even though it's a common favorite. That said, I would say that Season 3 is definitely far from pretentious nonsense, it may have its meaning and intent more obscured than is really useful or practical, but it means a lot, it's unbelievably well thought-out, and I think it is absolutely key to understanding the story and mind of Laura Palmer. Even so, I only started appreciating it as much as I do now after a lot of reflection and a series rewatch. I disagree intensely with a lot of the popular analyses you mentioned, in particular the 4 hour one that, yes, had a lot of work put into it, but is pretty demonstrably wrong and I think is very damaging to peoples' understanding of Twin Peaks. Anyone who claims to "get" Twin Peaks for the purposes of lording it over you is pretty silly. I have what I believe is a really compelling interpretation of it, but I haven't neatly fit all the pieces into some unified theory, so while I'm excited to talk to others about what I think the series is really about, I wouldn't ask them if they "get it". It's kind of a ridiculous thing to say about Twin Peaks
UFO 50 keeps on giving and there’s so much I want to say but don’t want to spoil. Learning that the Terminal has actual function and lets you access alternative game modes is wild and that’s just the tip of a wild iceberg
I'm glad they finally got to mention Mappa's shitty business practices. Its been know for a while how bad they are if you pay attention to the industry at all. Back when Attack on Titan was dropped by WIT Studio no one wanted to pick it up due to the insane scheduling it would require. People joked it would be a matter of time until Mappa bought it up and forced it on their team and lo and behold thats exactly what happned a year later. I'm sure the video Jon linked talks about it sonce she was in the industry but the big problem with the animation industry is there's too many projects and not enough poeple. Studios like Mappa brag how they're putting put 12 shows a year when that means the studio is working on 3 full seasons of anime a season. Also it's likely Woolie and John havent scene the bluray release of the Sukuna vs Mahoraga fight. It's actually even more crazy cuz they didnt have to rush for the TV release and a lot of the visuals are way more clear. There's entirely new scenes that add context and show the back and forth nature of the foght even more. It's a great example of how despite how crazy the season seemed it could have easily have been better of the team had been given the preproduction and time to work on it.
Man they got into so much with the Shibuya Incident but barely touched on Nanami and Kugisaki's deaths, especially with how they lead into Todo's magnificent entrance.
Choso vs Itadori fight end explanation: Spoilers, but it was explained why in the Shibuya Incident when Choso started fighting Mascara Snake-kun. Clarification will probably be next season. (The clarification is crazy and hilarious BTW so look forward to that) 1) Choso has the ability to sense when any of his brothers are about to die, as shown at the end of season 1. 2) Yuuji is about to die after their fight 3) For some reason, Choso's ability is triggering, and it is clear that it is because Yuuji is dying. This means that Yuuji is one of his brothers. That also means Kenjaku (brain controlling Mascara Snake-kun) is one of Yuuji's parents. Anime (likely season 3) hilarious clarification Spoilers: Notice how I said "one of Yuuji's parents." Kenjaku may be Choso's dad, but Kenjaku is Yuuji's mother. That still make Choso and Yuuji brothers.
I think the shibuya incident discussion is really interesting to me as someone who really didn't like it. It kinda tanked my investment in characters I was invested in to the point that really horrible stuff happened to my favorite characters, and I didn't really feel anything. For me, a fight with magic is enjoyable in proportion to the amount you understand the magic and what people can do with it. If the battle is won by something that you look back and think that makes sense given what you know and are familiar with. The boogie woogie fights are the best in the whole show because the power has one simple axiom, and then the complexity in the fight itself builds off that simple rule. Sometimes, the fights make sense after you've read the wiki and/or see that certain things are mistranslated. And it just feels like the exposition is done terribly because you're getting explained a lot of the jargon exactly and only when it comes up. And for my investment in fights, that's about proportional to the amount of downtime you get with the characters not fighting. I really like feeling like anything can happen and anyone could die. But I feel like the arc was paced in a way where it wanted to surprise you with who got hurt or died, and then scrambled to flashback to make sure you cared after the fact, which broke up the arc being crazy and bombastic. To me, it just felt like a really pretty version of someone smashing action figures together and making up the everything-proof-shield-destroying-bombs as they went along.
Hearing about what happened in JJK and how people were falling like flies for barely any reason, it really drained my investment in JJK overall too. And I barely cared because the characters felt like they were doing interesting things so far, so seeing them just brutalized with a lack of decent precedent felt just demoralizing too. Knowing how it all pans out in the end, I can kinda appreciate HOW that event and all it did helps the story going forward, but in the moment it just felt like it was done too cheaply (as in, without much care beyond the spectacle of it all).
I think it's dismissive to say it's just spectacle. They pulled out some scenes that I thought were really theoretically interesting. Gojo having to kill civilians to activate his domain expansion, fushiguro's dad coming back, and most of all Itadori's body being used to cause the pointless death of a whole lot of people despite his character motivation being allowing people to have a good meaningful death, all because of the fact he was allowed to live. I think it's a pacing issue for me that I saw those scenes and was like,'Oh. Right, that's kinda cool.' As opposed to really feeling it. I also think it's fine to senselessly kill a character without completing their arc because that's how death really is, pointless and without caring what your plans were. I just wish I had more time with the characters, so I really felt like I knew in my bones that was what drove itadori instead of intellectually remembering episode one or two. The best scene in the shibuya incident for me was when the stupid kids messed up gojo's shirt in the flashback. It also might have been going straight from the flashback to shibuya that I didn't feel grounded in the characters when stuff started going down.
Love JJK but I also love in the comments when the major fans get the whiteboard out to explain why everything perfectly makes sense and you should’ve seen this coming or you’ll see it coming 20 chapters down.
So, a thing I noticed about the Shibuya Incident that no one else could have. Malevolent Shrine? It's been done before, and not in a small way. An old webcomic that I hold near and dear to my heart is called a.t.x.s., or A.rtificial T.ime x.s. It's a parody of battle shonens that has general story planned out by its two creators, before the artist starts sending raw pages to the writer. The writer adds text, the artist reads that text, and the cycle starts again. It runs into a bunch of issues that formal battle shonens often do, but it's such an oddity that I can't help but love it. Anyways, at one point, the heroes' resident swordswoman and Vegeta-type Float gets drunk during a fight. She then busts out a new technique that *converts air into sword slashes.* The opponent is Gojo and Sukuna-level so it doesn't work, but hey, anything that _cuts the moon in half incidentally_ (while also un-aliving herself) deserves props.
![Yeat & Summrs - GO2WORK [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NEFEwfPcXRA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[BadComedian] - Русские ЭМО СУМЕРКИ (твой личный сорт кринжа)](/img/1.gif)
I've always wondered how Twin Peaks, the Shibuya Incident, and Carbbean food stack up against each other. Glad someone finally hashed this out.
"Look, I'm gonna get more Caribbean food, I'm not fucking playing Policenauts again" © golden quotes of Versus Wolves
Look, as far as *I'm* concerned (in other words, I'm only speaking for myself), John could literally commit Call Of Duty level war crimes and I'd still forgive him. But only on the condition that he eats more Caribbean food. Otherwise, he's going to get tortured worse than Griffith.
@@antonhanna2423May his name be forgotten
@@StanNotSoSaint Amen to that, no questions asked. Casca deserved better than that, even by dark fantasy standards.
I think Jon and Woolie have a special kind of friendship. I think we all want that friend who is excited to talk to you about literally anything you're interested in.
The type of friendship where a warm embrace is accompanied by knives held firmly at each other's throats 😂
A brothership some might say
it's so strong it survived woolie making john play omikron and a dokopon.
Woolie to Jon/Jon to Woolie: YOU ARE MY SPECIAL!!
And also have the ability to ruin their months at any given point for any reason through just forcing them to play omikron
Some might call the friendship era a Golden Age.
This Griffith guy is really cool I hope he and guts are friends forever
Uh oh
We all know the behelit John has in his pocket.
@@solomon9655 isn't it right, Evil Mascara Snake-kun?
I am not some
I can believe the claims that "the Shibuya Incident isn't what could have been". I loved the Mahoraga vs Sukuna episode, but the Blu-Ray adding entire minutes of fight scene to that episode that were unfinished at time of release really made me realize what a clusterfuck was happening behind the scenes. Especially with how the legendary animator Hakuyu Go (who worked on that episode) is apparently donezo with Mappa after what went down.
The idea of someone asking if you "got" an Adam Sandler movie.
Only true cinephiles can grasp the deep message of Jack and Jill
to be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand adam sandler
My parents did not get Uncut Gems.
"Oh yeah, it was really about the vacation he went on to the place he shot the scenes"
@SilverZephyr09 to me that doesn't count cuz he was only casted in it. For it to count he has to write and/or direct it imo.
I have no idea how Woolie comes to the conclusion that Sukuna's message to Jogo was "Sucks to suck" it is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT. He steps into his death dream and goes "You were cool, actually. Good try."
Classic case of Woolie misinterpreting something. At least this time it didn’t hinder his enjoyment
@@wielderofthetriforce1934 There's nothing to interpret! Sukuna shows up and literally gases him up, he says NOTHING but compliments! He talks about how even in the Heian era Jogo would have been considered among the top Curses, that he had fun fighting him, and that he was strong! All with a completely straight face!
It's one of the defining moments of Sukuna's character. It's the thing that makes him more than a mustach twirling villain, his positive trait is that he recognizes and acknowledges the virtues of others!
I think we need to stop saying Woolie "Misinterprets" things. He doesn't. He just forgets how they happened and then makes up a story in his head that he thinks more or less sounds right.
@@fell5514 i guess he thought Sukuna might have been facetious, because of how much of a bastard he is.
Not saying Woolie isn't still wrong in thinking that tho, with how Sukuna doesn't, at any point, pull any joke or trick during that moment to ruin Jogo's moment during death. He does that moment complete straight, giving the audience no reason to expect him to be disingenuous in the praise he was giving.
Great podcast so far, but I think Mascara Snake-kuns mic might be off 'cause I'm not hearing him AT ALL, and that's a problem because he's my favorite host 🐍
2:31:15 He's here! Our glorious Snake-Eyed King, after so long of being gone~ 👑 🐍
In some ways the friendship arc is infinitely more stressful than we started out with, because now we have something to lose.
Domain expansion: infinite content
I feel like John really isn't doing himself any favors on the "I'm not the Villain of this podcast!" front when he's rocking Malevolent Shrine on the thumbnail
He came in prepped to be the white haired bishie and he still chose violence
Domain Expansion: Playing the Heel
when Jon said he went to Ruby Tuesdays for Caribbean food, i was like "UUUMMM SIR!?"
NOOO THEY THINK SUKUNA HAS MEMORY POWERS, they did not pay attention to ep 22…. 😢
Fun Fact: The composer for Twin Peaks, Angelo Badalamenti, was also the composer for Indigo Prophecy
I hope John gets an accurate list during the next recording
@@typhonyx_was_taken yeah, like what the hell
The act of applause is an acclamation of the soul... and so i clap for this 4 hour peak.
Watching the friendship era is like reading the golden age arc, because its so beautiful to watch these people open up to each other, and you just know that one little change in outlook is going to lead to horrible events
So unbelievably hyped that you guys are talking Twin Peaks this time! I literally finished watching the show for the first time like 2 months ago. I absolutely loved it. One of the best shows I’ve ever watched. So ready for this!
It truely is one of the greatest. LOST was the only thing that filled the Twin Peaks shaped hole in my heart
In Dale Cooper's defense, literally the entire world was like YOWZA seeing Sherilyn Fenn as Audrey.
It helped that she was actually like 24-25 when they were filming.
Yeah, and I feel like the authority and costuming of the FBI makes him seem older, but Kyle MacLachlan was like 29 when they started filming
3:11:03 ok this is just wrong, Choso says that he can feel anything that happens to his blood related brothers so when Yuji near dies he senses him almost dying making him realize that Yuji is actually his brother, the memories don't have anything to do with sukuna it's literally just to visualize Choso seeing yuji alongside all of his siblings
Tbf, I'm not surprised that confused them because the Bleach-esque convoluted way Yuji came to be has not been explained at all yet
Common misconception. When the manga dropped and even when the season was new people were still confused about all that. It took several more volumes before the twist stuck for a lot of people.
@@JoseRS1186 I remember people thinking Yuji's CT was memory manipulation because of Todo and Choso
they're both anime only and have no idea of what happens later, Woolie is doing a thing called "theorizing"
@@matehiqu9905 That's valid but the issue is that it's not a spoiler. You're supposed to take what Choso says at face value, the author just did a really bad job presenting it and opened the door to alternative explanations.
These titles are some the greatest in all of RUclips.
I think one aspect of Twin Peaks that sadly often gets overshadowed by Lynch is Mark Frost. One the main reasons Twin Peaks doesn't feel as weird and far out as other Lynch works is partly his influence in both the production and the screen writing. Most of the parts of the show that aren't traditionally "Lynchian" are most likely his contribution and so it's a bit sad to barely hear him mentioned in discussions about the show and how most people assume this is just Lynch being held back or underdeveloped
Also I think people tend to play up Lynch's eccentricities as a writer/director. He definitely prefers the weird and abstract but he's also perfectly capable of writing a more straightforward grounded story.
Watching Woolie speculate completely wrongly about why the Choso flashback happened is so funny
To be fair, it was unclear the episode it was shown but later it was explained lol
@@-Fraud Oh absolutely, but him going "Oh yeah I know what's going on here." when I know for a fact that he can't and then makes up an explanation is very funny, especially by it supposing that Sukuna would ever care about protecting Yuji in any situation
It’s even more frustrating because there’s literally nothing to speculate about. It’s outright confirmed by the end of the season but I guess either they both weren’t paying attention or just completely forgot
100% of the people reading/watching didn't get it correct because the actual answer is so out of left field.
@@31Moth13 I don't expect him to be correct until Mama Kenjaku is shown, but I also think going "Yeah here's what happened" when there's no possibility he could've known and then getting it wrong is just funny
1:40:15 I don't think this is Lynch hating his audience per say... more or less it was like, "OK, you think this murder mystery is fun and quirky but here's the thing; brutal murder IS brutal murder!"
David was like; "here is what happened exactly. Do you feel better about what you've seen? Because this is the truth."
FWWM is grim! Dark! And will hurt to watch; but it all makes sense... especially if you have seen the full series.
Also David Lynch I feel is more Yoko Taro than Hideo Kojima.
Like, "Why did you do this? "... "Beacuse!" Lmao 🤣
I could write a full essay on how using the magical realism within the world of twin peaks to create and endearing and silly scene that also shortens the long crime procedural process of an investigation of all of the POIs is so genius
It's so good because it's just straight-up telling the audience "pay attention to the weird doctor and Lou"
Sonething I really love about Twin Peaks that differentiates it even more from the TV shows at the time is it was shot on location. It gives so many more scenes so much more depth than they would have on a set. They're able to do so many more interesting camera angles and lighting than they would be able to if there weren't a 4th wall there.
49:00 You've heard of chess boxing now get ready for DOKAPON JIU-JITSU!
3:07:37 Exactly! This is why the Choso fight is my favorite in the entire season, I just enjoy a lot more a well choreographed and directed fight scene than the spectacle of laser beams and shit being thrown around. Similar reason why my favorite fight of Mob Psycho 100 is the one with the Blind Teleporter Guy
So spoilers/non-spoilers for the False Memories thing. That's not the reason why it happened and the reason why will be explained eventually.
It’s not really a spoiler since Choso literally says it out loud
It's fascinating watching you guys address Americans directly, it gives me a sense of the world's impressions about Americans broadly.
This podcast is an absolute highlight for me
Btw, I feel like Gojo and Jogo are named the way they are is to draw attention to the only similarity they really have after you see the outcome of their meeting. They both are motivated across the series to support their tribe with everything they have. Gojo builds the sorcerers up, Jogo seeks the same for cursed spirits. They are both recognized for that by the other characters specifically.
I looked at the runtime for the first time when John reminded us this was the first triple-topic at 6:06 and holy crap, 4 hours of Versus Wolves??? We're eating good today folks
Hey Versus Wolves. I just wanted to say thank you. Its been a really rough month but through the power of anime, friendship, spite, and *legal and safe amounts of mind altering substances*, your podcast helped me get my depressed body out of bed on more than on occasion. But also now i have thoughts on twin peaks and im annoying everyone. But on the plus side an afro Carribean place opened up within walking distance and the roti is life changing.
My favorite memory from video games as a kid was my mom coming by while my brother and I were playing Tenkaichi and she saw me lose a character to Hercule and made fun of me for it cause she knew Hercule from just seeing him randomly sometimes when we would watch DBZ
The Big Lebowski is a VERY American movie. Consider this: The three main characters, the Dude, Donny, and Walter, they all represent modern day American Politics and now ridiculous they are.
Omg the Twins of Peak are back again! So excited for this now that I’m caught up 💪💪
I'm so in this for all the parts! But I'm incredibly excited for the Twin Peaks part!
Jon performing Malevolent Shrine, confirmed Villian of the Podcast
Loving the Boxing Arc so far
Shocked to see Jon bring up Re:Zero again for that fun little comparison about things people find overrated.
I do still think what the story is actually about would be completely up his alley (it's probably one of the greatest stories of empathy, depression, and learning how to love yourself and others out there period.) but it's fair to be turned off before you get to that point or cus of other little things/personal tastes.
These are still great as ever tho, friendship era is peak c:
I adore Re:Zero but I also have accepted that if someone bounces off of it that there's nothing anyone can say or do that will change thier mind. But that's ok since it's still able to reach those that are actually in need of its message.
@@PredictableEnigma Its one of those shows that you either hit or miss with. It really doesn't help that the main character is built to specifically shoot a kind of person in the face with "YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE" then *reload* and fire again with "AND YOU COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF YOU TRIED"
In what part does he make that comparison ? Any timestamp
Choso's memory shenanigans were explained in series. They do not have to do with Sukuna. Choso can feel his connection to his brothers, especially when they die. He said in one of the final episodes he could feel that same connection as Yuji was about to be killed by him. This lead him to believe that they must be related by blood
Sukuna has no memory powers. What actually happened is that Choso sensed his brother's death so hard when he was about to kill him, he got fake memories of it.
1:21:49 best thing about Ed and Nadine is that the actors played the evil "Man and Woman" from Wes Craven's "The People Under the Stairs"
when Woolie called Gurenn Lagann contemporary, i did an audible chuckle, then looked at the 60 year old man in the mirror.
The longest one yet!
And I am so early that there are no timestamps! ;-;
twin peaks the movie and season 3 are really my favorite parts of the whole thing. they're just so fucking good. powerful emotional stuff.
" Succession in real life "
So....the life of Vince McMahon?
@@brendanb2982 yeah, I was getting the vibes
I binged the entire vs series twice and listened to everything in the lounge. Right on time guys.
. . . Imma be bored AF tomorrow though
The Versus Wolves Friendship Era has the same vibe as ending a game of Mortal Kombat with a Friendship does.
The Caribbean delegation would like a recount
Lets goooooo! Got caught up on JJK for this episode! Hyped to listen 😊
I wish I did, but I know the animation is at least half the fun, so I'll happily tank the spoilers.
...Again, because I've already seen stuff about the Shibuya Incident.
I wish I still had the same uncompromised appreciation for JJK as you, but I made the decision to read the manga
@@RougeMephilesClone I mean, the Shibuya incident stops where the anime stops also
@@samt3412 Oh, same, dude. lol
@FeenieVonKarma Like, the finale isn't good or bad, it's just incredibly mid and unsatisfying
Spoiler for JJK:
What if I told you all the rest of JJK was chaos arcs?
JJK peaks at the shibuya accident, and then it is middle finger Gojover
@@Doomroar i knew SOMEONE who can't read would be in the comments, and here you are
@@DoomroarWrong + cope
@@wielderofthetriforce1934 wait till you see gojo gets defeated and dies off screen:D
Yeah, the chaos really doesn't stop from here, the stakes just stay super high.
Versus Wolves? I used to watch them
Still do. But I used to as well
I need Chimera Ant arc to teach Shibuya pain
1:26:25 DISCO ELYSIUM REFERENCE SPOTTED
Lynch has definetly maxed out his Inland Emprie stat, he even made a movie named Inland Empire
The idea that Lynch has broken the ceiling on the Inland Empire stat is confirmed for me by
The actor that he cast to be a kind of spirit or embodiment of the concept of wife m-urder, ended up being put on trial for k-illing his wife IN REAL LIFE. And years before that happened, David Lynch looked at this guy and thought, "He seems perfect for this!"
I find Wild at Heart hilarious, but it's also not a good example of Lynch because he didn't write it, it was based on someone else's novel. It definitely is an extreme departure from everything else he has ever done.
I did not expect an episode this early. Let's fuckin go.
“Does John like Caribbean food more than where Woolie says he likes Twin Peaks at?”
If anyone here likes twin peaks they should play Alan wake, twin peaks is a major inspiration for the games
Also Wild at Heart is fire! Willem Dafoe was amazing in it as Bobby Peru!
Twin Perfect's explanation of Twin Peaks is by far the best I've seen and it fully explains why Lynch said it was good that an eight year old found it traumatic. I didn't see it until I was an adult, but it's legit some of the scariest TV I've ever seen.
The only podcast that paints a shit eating grin on my face from start to finish.
I got outside my comfort food and watched all of Twin Peaks for this
ASHITA NO JO MENTIONED
Oh my god, I fucking called it months ago that john was going to do another riverdale video
I love Dale Cooper's techniques like the rock throwing. It reminds me of the Dirk Gently character from Douglas Adams' books (Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency and The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul). A private investigator who investigates based on the interconnectedness of all things. In one of the books you learn that his method of navigation when driving is to just pick another car and follow it, trusting that while it may not lead him to where he intends to go, it will lead him to where he needs to be.
God I wish I felt like you guys did about Shibuya. If anything, the hype surrounding the arc made it more disappointing than its average arc. It's not that I didn't enjoy any of it, but what I enjoyed was far outweighed by what I didn't. I heard someone describe JJK as "hype moments with weak connective tissue," and I couldn't agree more. And the problem with that for me is I can't find hype moments hype if I don't have that reason to be invested. And Shibuya lacked that throughout most of it. Technically all conflict in fiction is contrived, but the thing is you're not supposed to notice or feel that. Almost every fight in the Shibuya Incident felt contrived IMO.
Well, for the first time in my listening of this podcast im going to be skipping a section. I wanted to watch Twin Peaks for the longest time, and this bookclub thing was an excellent motivator to finally do so. Sadly, this month was buisy and I couldn't quite do it. So, until such time as I have finished Twin Peaks, I'll skip that section! See you fine gents next month!
Though to be clear, I will listen to the rest of it now. Need to get some Caribbean food too. Not sure how good the Caribbean is in Alaska but I will find out ...
One interesting thing about Mahoraga is its theorized that people in the Zenin clan like Toji, could probably help Ten-Shadow Users subjugate Mahoraga because he wouldn't "count" as being a part of the Ritual as he doesn't have any cursed energy. But because the Zenin's constantly ostracize people like Toji this never materializes.
Sherlock vs Moriarty in that RDJ movie does something similar 3:19:00 where sherlock is analyzing the fight and Moriarty as his equal basically goes, "Ok now here is my turn predicting the fight"
Inland Empire might be the Lynch stat, but Dale Cooper is actually a Shivers build
2:03:39 When John said "I'm looking at these dudes and I'm like-" a goddamn male underwear ad with sexy music started playing
So the less Lynchian aspects of Twin Peaks is thanks to Mark Frost, the writer. He and Lynch collaborated in a heart-brain kind of way of writing the story.
Listening to them talk about UFO 50 without playing it myself sounds like two crazy people hallucinating about strange games that don't exist
riverdale mentioned by the guy who convinced me to go down that same rabbit hole.
me, now a knower: "oh no. he has to talk about rivervale."
I love that 3rd strike jacket, holy shit, I don't even play fighting games
Oh we got our first Triple recommendation episode!!!! I love it
That little point about the "did you get it?" angle is so true. Ironically, the time I've most experienced this in my life was with twin peaks season 3 fanboys. I loved season 1 and 2 and thought season 3 was terrible, but David Lynch fanboys cannot fathom that anything he makes can be just bad and pretentious and you can dislike it, no, they'll come up with a billion contrived made up analyses and praise of 18 hours of boring nonsense that could be presented in 6 (or less) just as effectively, and if you still think it's bad then you just "didn't get it".
Did you actually get it though? Do you understand the purpose of season 3?
It's very bad faith to present it as The Return fans not actually realizing it's bad. And then saying the analysis is made up and contrived does not help your case either.
Season 3 is hard to love, but if you can, it is really special. I wouldn't blame anyone for recoiling from it. I agree that it would benefit from being shorter, even as a fan of Inland Empire.
I think I was prepared for its more difficult to swallow elements because I had seen his other movies like Inland Empire, which is a similarly taxing watch. And I don't think Lynch is infallible, for example, I don't really think Blue Velvet is that good or interesting, even though it's a common favorite.
That said, I would say that Season 3 is definitely far from pretentious nonsense, it may have its meaning and intent more obscured than is really useful or practical, but it means a lot, it's unbelievably well thought-out, and I think it is absolutely key to understanding the story and mind of Laura Palmer. Even so, I only started appreciating it as much as I do now after a lot of reflection and a series rewatch.
I disagree intensely with a lot of the popular analyses you mentioned, in particular the 4 hour one that, yes, had a lot of work put into it, but is pretty demonstrably wrong and I think is very damaging to peoples' understanding of Twin Peaks. Anyone who claims to "get" Twin Peaks for the purposes of lording it over you is pretty silly.
I have what I believe is a really compelling interpretation of it, but I haven't neatly fit all the pieces into some unified theory, so while I'm excited to talk to others about what I think the series is really about, I wouldn't ask them if they "get it". It's kind of a ridiculous thing to say about Twin Peaks
Nah, season 3 rocks bud
Ok but Cooper mr beaning his way through life is comedy gold at least
UFO 50 keeps on giving and there’s so much I want to say but don’t want to spoil. Learning that the Terminal has actual function and lets you access alternative game modes is wild and that’s just the tip of a wild iceberg
I'm glad they finally got to mention Mappa's shitty business practices. Its been know for a while how bad they are if you pay attention to the industry at all.
Back when Attack on Titan was dropped by WIT Studio no one wanted to pick it up due to the insane scheduling it would require. People joked it would be a matter of time until Mappa bought it up and forced it on their team and lo and behold thats exactly what happned a year later.
I'm sure the video Jon linked talks about it sonce she was in the industry but the big problem with the animation industry is there's too many projects and not enough poeple. Studios like Mappa brag how they're putting put 12 shows a year when that means the studio is working on 3 full seasons of anime a season.
Also it's likely Woolie and John havent scene the bluray release of the Sukuna vs Mahoraga fight. It's actually even more crazy cuz they didnt have to rush for the TV release and a lot of the visuals are way more clear. There's entirely new scenes that add context and show the back and forth nature of the foght even more. It's a great example of how despite how crazy the season seemed it could have easily have been better of the team had been given the preproduction and time to work on it.
Thanks to John for being a stepping stone in woolies growth
WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK
HOLY SHIT 4 HOURS?!
versus wolfes podcast
THE STRONGEST YAPPER IN HISTORY VS THE STRONGEST YAPPER OF TODAY
Man they got into so much with the Shibuya Incident but barely touched on Nanami and Kugisaki's deaths, especially with how they lead into Todo's magnificent entrance.
A little bummed they didn't mention Sukuna's "Stand proud. You're strong." to Jogo. Very humanizing little moment for him.
And the craziest thing is that shibuya is the 2nd best arc in JJK
8:30 I haven't watched any further than this but this moment alone makes me think the friendship era will not survive this episode.
My favourite David Lynch quote remains "elaborate on that?" "No."
Choso vs Itadori fight end explanation:
Spoilers, but it was explained why in the Shibuya Incident when Choso started fighting Mascara Snake-kun. Clarification will probably be next season. (The clarification is crazy and hilarious BTW so look forward to that)
1) Choso has the ability to sense when any of his brothers are about to die, as shown at the end of season 1.
2) Yuuji is about to die after their fight
3) For some reason, Choso's ability is triggering, and it is clear that it is because Yuuji is dying.
This means that Yuuji is one of his brothers. That also means Kenjaku (brain controlling Mascara Snake-kun) is one of Yuuji's parents.
Anime (likely season 3) hilarious clarification Spoilers:
Notice how I said "one of Yuuji's parents."
Kenjaku may be Choso's dad, but Kenjaku is Yuuji's mother. That still make Choso and Yuuji brothers.
25:00 "Dungeon crawler" missed opportunity to invent the genre of dungeon brawler.
I think the shibuya incident discussion is really interesting to me as someone who really didn't like it. It kinda tanked my investment in characters I was invested in to the point that really horrible stuff happened to my favorite characters, and I didn't really feel anything.
For me, a fight with magic is enjoyable in proportion to the amount you understand the magic and what people can do with it. If the battle is won by something that you look back and think that makes sense given what you know and are familiar with. The boogie woogie fights are the best in the whole show because the power has one simple axiom, and then the complexity in the fight itself builds off that simple rule. Sometimes, the fights make sense after you've read the wiki and/or see that certain things are mistranslated. And it just feels like the exposition is done terribly because you're getting explained a lot of the jargon exactly and only when it comes up.
And for my investment in fights, that's about proportional to the amount of downtime you get with the characters not fighting. I really like feeling like anything can happen and anyone could die. But I feel like the arc was paced in a way where it wanted to surprise you with who got hurt or died, and then scrambled to flashback to make sure you cared after the fact, which broke up the arc being crazy and bombastic. To me, it just felt like a really pretty version of someone smashing action figures together and making up the everything-proof-shield-destroying-bombs as they went along.
It was the spectacle of it more than anything they liked about the season honestly.
Hearing about what happened in JJK and how people were falling like flies for barely any reason, it really drained my investment in JJK overall too.
And I barely cared because the characters felt like they were doing interesting things so far, so seeing them just brutalized with a lack of decent precedent felt just demoralizing too. Knowing how it all pans out in the end, I can kinda appreciate HOW that event and all it did helps the story going forward, but in the moment it just felt like it was done too cheaply (as in, without much care beyond the spectacle of it all).
I think it's dismissive to say it's just spectacle. They pulled out some scenes that I thought were really theoretically interesting. Gojo having to kill civilians to activate his domain expansion, fushiguro's dad coming back, and most of all Itadori's body being used to cause the pointless death of a whole lot of people despite his character motivation being allowing people to have a good meaningful death, all because of the fact he was allowed to live. I think it's a pacing issue for me that I saw those scenes and was like,'Oh. Right, that's kinda cool.' As opposed to really feeling it. I also think it's fine to senselessly kill a character without completing their arc because that's how death really is, pointless and without caring what your plans were. I just wish I had more time with the characters, so I really felt like I knew in my bones that was what drove itadori instead of intellectually remembering episode one or two. The best scene in the shibuya incident for me was when the stupid kids messed up gojo's shirt in the flashback. It also might have been going straight from the flashback to shibuya that I didn't feel grounded in the characters when stuff started going down.
Love JJK but I also love in the comments when the major fans get the whiteboard out to explain why everything perfectly makes sense and you should’ve seen this coming or you’ll see it coming 20 chapters down.
Bruh why you gotta drop this right before my shift ends on a Friday 😭
Bro same. Right when my shift ends the podcast comes out lol
I really relate to John. Primarily because of how pathetic we both can be/are. Boosts my confidence and humbles me simultaneously.
So, a thing I noticed about the Shibuya Incident that no one else could have. Malevolent Shrine? It's been done before, and not in a small way. An old webcomic that I hold near and dear to my heart is called a.t.x.s., or A.rtificial T.ime x.s. It's a parody of battle shonens that has general story planned out by its two creators, before the artist starts sending raw pages to the writer. The writer adds text, the artist reads that text, and the cycle starts again. It runs into a bunch of issues that formal battle shonens often do, but it's such an oddity that I can't help but love it.
Anyways, at one point, the heroes' resident swordswoman and Vegeta-type Float gets drunk during a fight. She then busts out a new technique that *converts air into sword slashes.* The opponent is Gojo and Sukuna-level so it doesn't work, but hey, anything that _cuts the moon in half incidentally_ (while also un-aliving herself) deserves props.
I binged season 2 of JJK and bought the twin peaks box set for this, lets go
On the topic of JJK animator mistreatment:
YO, WORKERS' DEMOCRACY, NOW
Hearin y’all discuss ‘chaos arcs’ really reminds me of Malazan convergences. Great ep boizzz