NEVER Chase Your Teammates... Except Sometimes - (Merced Criterium p/1/2)
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- Опубликовано: 3 мар 2023
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Just goes to show how flexible one needs to be in a race with their plans and make changes on the fly - it's usually not the strongest rider that typically wins, it's the smartest - looking forward to when your fitness hits peak Jeff....
Imagine sitting in the peloton being one of seven people that lapped the rest and then, suddenly, the entire Team Mike's Bikes ride away. Not together but one by one. The slap in the face.
In any field, General rules are for beginners. Experts know how to be flexible with the rules. Don’t chase your teammates is one of many of such rules. Great example breakdown of bike racing proficiency. Please more of these!
Really well said, mate.
good lord! sean is 18 years old?! i had no idea. he has so much talent, i’m excited to see what’s in store for him
Agree
Boys I’m from the east bay and I can’t tell you how much I’ve enjoyed this series and your content in general. Thank you for being such awesome representatives and keep racing hard!
Wow! This is something different on so many levels. Is so strange for me to see the hole field back together after the guys in the front are actually way ahead. Other than that is was a masterclass on teamwork. Kudos to all of you. And congrats to Sean. I never expected this but the videos got even better lately.
EJ killing it with the shots and editing!
Most of the time the plan goes out the window when the officials call a prime on the first lap. 😂 Amazing team tactics! Certainly helps to have a couple of absolute hitters as teammates, too. Great work, Jeff, Ryan, and Sean! And great edit, EJ!
Absolute banger. Great to see such a dynamic race and your thoughts behind each move. Well done.
Great job Jeff! No one is doing anything close to race coverage and recaps! You make it look easy!
Definitely an interesting race, love seeing different ways teammates can contribute when a podium finish isn't in the cards.
I actually saw this Race documented by another racer (ChainlessTV) in this which also showcased how strong the Mikes Bikes team was on the day. Good perspective from an alternate angle on how good you guys are. Can't wait for EJ to get up there with you, kid is amazing.
Absolutely loving the volume and quality of norcalcycling videos lately.
That Dolce Vita kit is fire!
I was SOOOO thrilled with a $100 prime to start the race. Gorman played me perfectly here and not only did I come up short on the $100 I was on the back foot when the fireworks split the group. As I told you about 1/3 of the way in. "You're holding all the cards". Nice win MB.
Nothing like waking up to a NorCal cycling video to watch!
"Great day to have a good day!" Love it.
Also, I love the off-bike footage w/over commentary. Jeff, I think you & EJ are onto something... RUclipswise.
the crits i ride here in switzerland or europe work like this.
on serious races there is a motorbike or car in front and when the car is behind you you have to go out even before beeing laped.
on trainingcrits you are allowed to stay in the field when laped but you will get disqialified if you go to the front, help someone, close gaps or just do anything that could change the outcome. to me this makes sense because otherwise imagine this: a team with 7 riders could have 3 riders chill and getting lapped all the time. the other 3 race on the front and close all the gaps for the forth rider. in the second halt of the race the 3 x time laped rider start to close gaps and they can do it easily because they are still fresh. or you could even do it every 3 laps a bit like in ice hockey.
And then the losing riders just post a dnf when they're exhausted from their efforts, or just take it easy finishing the race, while knowing their teammates met success. I was thinking about this as he was explaining what he was doing towards the end of the video. Seems like an unfair exploit, and I think the rules you have in Switzerland are better.
@@thatboyscotty maby we understood something wrong because if it is like this not getting laped is stupid from a team tactics perspective. Imagine a maddison track racie where both riders would ride together like in a breakaway. This would be an extreme dissadvantage against the other teams where one rider is able to rest.
The commentary on EJs race was hilarious - great that he saw it as a useful learning experience.
Mike's bikes ttt🤣
Such a great video love watching these. I’m like a Cat5 rider and this can give me such a good grounding on how to race better and take it into road races as well
I agree, never chase your teammates, and I don't think this video requires any apology or qualification. What you did was to bridge, which in my mind has always been to jump across a gap and leave everybody (or almost everybody) else behind. It's only chasing if you drag the group with you (which I trust you would've had the good sense to realize before you made it very far). But who cares. Chapeau for a great team effort.
Awesome video. Huge props to Sean and the whole squad.
Thanks EJ and Jeff. Another super fun and informative video.
Great team work guys! I get zoned in on these videos.
I admire your hard working posting video almost everyday. Kudos👍👍👍
this is wild... you guys!!!
Great race and even better break down.
Hi Jeff thoroughly enjoy your vids - i'm a new cat 4 in the UK and love watching the pointy end sat with a cup of tea, very entertaining
EJ, that opening edit is friggin good!
Awesome race...nice to see some different outcomes.
Thanks Jeff! - Have a great weekend.
That was absurd. Great team strategy. Super informative video as per usual Jeff.
This was a fun one, good to see this strategy since it is kind of rare in these videos!
That opening intro was sick!
Good job, Sean!
This video has strong “do as I say, not as I do” Dad vibes. 😂
On the contrary Jeff. You had an excellent race. You read the race superbly, adapted as needed and eventually won the race. After all, you entered it as a team.
#JobDone
Great race! What a grinta Sean has! Rocketman🤩
Good stuff! Man that was such a fun one. Hoping to get up to Alviso this month for a shot at redemption 😅
Message me before you go, make sure I’ll be there, great racing at Merced 🤘
I mean if you hadn't tried to take the souls of every 35+ rider and lap them twice, you may have had a few bullets left 😂You lapped SuperDave 3x that day....lol
@@shaunb93291 😆
I feel like I’m on your team I go to chico state and I’m on the triathlon team. Our headlining sponsor is performance bicycle. Keep killing it much love!
Sick shots and great racing
Love the editing/music in this video
get shaun over to Europe after or during this season. he could go places...
Nice race choices Jeff.
This was sick, thanks
Nice race, and nice vid!
Haha I said this _exact_ same thing, and the owner of this channel had a minor hissy fit.
There are indeed situations where in it _is_ a good tactic to "chase your teammate."
Nice to see you've learned that. 😉
Although what he calls "chasing" his teammates is known to me as solo _bridging_ to teammates.
Jeff, you didn't "chase" your teammates...you instantly appeared next to them! Dang boy....what a bridge!
In israel, when you get laped, you are not alowed to influance the race, and you can seat at the back, but you can not pull upftont
wow, impressive racing
52 seconds in. The dude on the front tall white socks. 😂
Insane seeing 2 then 3 mikes bikes teammates off the front like that. Insane tactics
Not in the United States- in NYC they will pull riders in crits before they get lapped.
Just watched older video where a duo of lapped clif bar riders joined lead group as they passed to help teammate and you mentioned it was against rules. Noob here so just wondering difference I missed. Maybe different local rules? Love the combo of chess, power and selflessness involved in your teams’ approach. Kudos
They intentionally dropped back from the peloton to assist their teammate in the break, which is against the rules. Once your teammate completes the lap then it’s fair game. Small distinction in the rules but a big difference
Just a Question: What prevents you from purposely falling back out of the peleton to help your teammates further back (when they are almost lapping you but not quite)
Because then everyone can just fall back once their team has a established breakaway and help them better this way. But that seems quite wierd, almost unsportsmanlike to me.
What are the rules about this one, would really like to know :)
This is prob why Europe takes their riders out. As long as the rider stays with the main group, I think it's kinda cool and more dynamic the American way.
What actually happened was in violation of USAC crit rules. Lapped riders are not permitted to lead the lead riders and the lead riders are not permitted to receive assistance from lapped riders. Rule 3D4.
@@mustridefaster Does everyone use those rules?
@@mustridefaster Actually, no, it wasn't a violation. Lapped riders, if they have stayed with the field, can continue to race and help lead riders. It is dropped riders (who are dropped by the main field then lapped) that can't lead or assist. Kind of confusing, and yeah, as a team "strategy", getting lapped and then leading your teammates is a bit questionable... definitely something that could be easily taken advantage of. "USA Cycling: 3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead. Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field. Lapped riders may rejoin and race with the field in cases where lapped riders are not being withdrawn by the officials. "
@@al-du6lb That is the way I have always heard it interpreted at every race I've ever ridden and how it was explained to me by USAC officials.
First! I love you videos Jeff! Always a great day when you post!
the lapping rules are crazy. here in the uk you have to let all the riders past they normally only pull riders out if the leader has finished and they still have a lot of laps left. I think its a really cool concept to allow lapped riders to then help lapping riders however people here would probably exploit it to get recovery and help team mates
Yeah there would be a lot of shouting going on in the UK. I got told off for not being dead last wheel when the peleton lapped me but they were letting huge gaps open up
I'm do jealous of shaun's Bianchi 🥵
Don't chase your team mates, but bridge to them... or rather teleport there
Crash update on Sean in next video please. I can see on his Strave that he has been hit by a car. Get well soon strong boy! 💪🏻
Thanks for the amazing videos Jeff! 🤩
Sean is okay. Nothing broken except for parts of his bike. A little sore today but otherwise okay. He was able to go out training today. Thanks for your concern.
@@billstrachan476 very nice to hear that! 👏🏻 ☺️
Sean needs some gopros on his bike
I was excited..I thought 1sr 2nd 3rd all positions will be team Mike's Bike
Hmm. Just 3 minutes in and enjoying the footage ( 40 years of video production & bike racing) and that is the flattest heal position I have seen on a bottom of a pedal stroke OR... is this Ideal ? (frame at 3:20) asked by someone who is / had struggles with seat height.
When 2 teammates are ahead like that, what's the process for deciding until when you work together and from when you race each other?
Are there any 1-2-3 races coming up, that you both can race?? It would be interesting to see if he could finish in the top 20.
This footage is firrrreeee
Very interesting! It's interesting to see how this challenges many peoples' sense of "fairness" but it does give the race a lot of dimension.
Breakaway scenario: If you’re in a breakaway of 3-4 guys who are all on different teams, and someone has a teammate who bridged up (so now 5 guys), how should the guys who don’t have a teammate in the breakaway change their strategy?
Does that usually disrupt the breakaway, or do you keep working evenly until you know you’re not getting caught?
i todally get the move to jump over to your teammates to support them but i am pretty sure it would have been better to not empty youself within a few very strong pulls but rather to rotate smooth for a longer time. it seems like your teammates were going for almost 20minutes longer after you dropped so you beeing three would have been very helpful. Could you not have gone 5%less Power and Time on your pulls and because of that be there for them for another 10 minutes? Anyways, just some couchpotato expertise. Thanks for the video keep it up
Watched the last two also, and I'm surprised someone didn't remove the cut grass from that right turn (bend), that's slicker than water..
those two turns were so sketchy. dirt track racing.
Jeff wouldn't bridging to your mates at the front be good strategy whether you've been lapped or not? As long as you don't drag others up (critical either way). Then same as lapped you have 3 riders to share the work and even if you're all on the same lap you could still sacrifice yourself with monster pulls to get the others out of sight.
Oh except I guess the freshness differential gives you a fighting chance to bridge up without being followed. Probably unrealistic to bridge up cleanly if unlapped riders were with you.
Impressive
what software do you use to see the power etc at the end of the video?
VI is more due to being in the break - he didn't have to surge as much. IF is maybe a better indicator. I didn't see yours in the file, but Sean was like a .88 - hard but not crazy hard, well for him ;)
NorCal cycling. I’m wondering if you could help select a bike. I want a bike that I can get close to 6.8kg for a race/fast group ride. Thinking maybe Scott addict rc, or bmc team machine. Budget around 6k and could later upgrade from there. Thank you!
Just curious does your team ever do hill climb races or country races where the course isn't marked
How could one get signed by mikes bikes??
The average / normalised power would be more impressive if he weighed more - looks like on balance you did less W/kg than the winner, Jeff. Given a crit is constant acceleration and weight matters in multi-acceleration races, I would say despite the absolute power disparity that you were similar in your power outputs @ 4W/kg (4.15 NP W/kg) for the winner and 3.9W/kg (4.3 NP W/kg) for you. He's lighter / shorter therefore smaller and has less area for the CdA formula also.
So if in the USA when the field gets lapped they are still racing, wasn't it better to wait one more lap for your two teammates when they broke away instead of chasing them, burning matches and risking that you will bring the competition back on your wheel? I think I don't understand the rules and tactics.
If you are dropped you’ll get pulled
I'm not sure if comparing power between two people riding with different power meters is entirely useful. If his PM is reading 2.5% low and yours reads 2.5% high then that alone can account for a 5% spread. Although the power smoothness is impressive for sure!
0:50 I didn't know it was a gravel race
Were the guys behind Sean at the finish on the same lap? Just trying to get a sense of how close the field was at the finish.
Those riders were lapped, the gap back to 3rd place was like 40s or so by the finish
Not on the same lap except for Ryan who had an unfortunate last lap flat. He's a beast 💪
AWE SOME!!!!
I'm not sure if the GoPro's max ISO is set to a low number (e.g. 400), but I suggest increasing that number, especially on overcast days. Let the shutter speed get faster so stabilization could do its job. Every small road bump makes the footage shaky on low ISO. Lower number is only good to reduce over-exposure when there's tons sunshine.
I use filters to allow for motion blur but on a bumpy course it throws off the stabilization
I wonder can you work with the lapped teammate? Would it be then fine to also drop back and wait for them to join you? Instead doing that huge effort to catch?😅
dropped riders cannot help, lapped riders can.
Pulling a Jumbo-Visma
If its not stated in the rules then getting lapped is fine. They should have something about intentionally sandbagging and getting lapping yourself in order to give your team an advantage though, which if they don't then that's on them. Which I think should be fine to get lapped if you are racing normally in order to prevent your race fee from going down the drain if you were in a lesser field like one of the cat 4 or 5 people.
As for the prime on the lap. I think announcing it while lined up is better. by announcing it during the race with so little time you run the risk of running into common complaints such as people not hearing it or it being not ADA complaint towards hard of hearing riders.
There is a distinction in the rules between lapped and dropped riders
Sean.
Bad pavement? Understatement much 😁
First lap preem? Thats why mtb pedals rule
What's rule #1 if you don't have no teammates in the race?
Never smoke the devils lettuce… except sometimes
I wonder how many riders crash each year as a result of some racers racing in slow motion
Boss!
All the crits I've watched in the Southeast have lapped riders exit the course.
Ryan is the biggest chad ever
You're the has been of the group
A great study on why you should finish the lapped riders first and then the lapping riders. Otherwise, riders with no chance of winning interfere with those that do. That seems very unfair.
Can you imagine the chaos in a peloton where half the riders sprinting for the finish and the other half are not 🤕
@@NorCalCycling Clubs in Australia manage it. Riders are briefed before the race that lapped riders will be finished before lapping riders. Lapping riders form up behind the lapped riders and are generally instructed to complete another 2 to 3 laps before they are given the bell. It works fine.
I really don't understand the rules of crit racing, and how anyone has any idea who has lapped who, who is winning, etc.
Ya understanding the rules and paying attention to what’s going on in the race is a big part of success that most people don’t grasp even in the p12 field believe it or not. FYI lapping is really uncommon and only happens once or twice per season
Not chasing your teammates right? Just bridging to them ;)