When The DM Made Sure The Party Fails To Even Leave The Tavern | Narrated D&D Story
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- This DM may just be the next Agatha Christie. Or not.
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These dms really need to learn that if they don't want the characters in their story to have free will they could just write a book
100% agree with you.
The thing is, I'm a writer and my characters often do things I don't expect. In fact, that's what makes writing fun. No, this DM should just play one of those DnD board games. The characters are pregenerated already. They might find it more fulfilling.
@@Rixizu Still involves free will. Such a shame they haven't invented playerbots yet who the dm programs ahead of time. Then they'd finally be able to take the last bit of fun out of the game.
This is the worst kind of railroading that existed back in the day with statements vague statements that refuse to define the answer so players can't even try, like "the fence is too high," "there are too many guards," or the classic "the door cannot be opened." Without definition, it just ruins what the PCs might have attempted that could have overcome a problem and forces them to only go in the prescribed direction that the DM has decided, regardless of what they want might have been able to do.
Well, the problem is most GMs like this can't write any better than they can GM, so that's a bust too. :p
"The barkeep squints at you and asks why someone would want to buy an ale at a tavern, that's very suspicious."
the fact that the DM said that statement in all seriousness speaks volumes of how little he knows of.... everything really.
*rolls eyes and nods* "Tell me about it."
Stranger... It appears you are walking while staring at nothing in particular... That means you are suspicious...
"Hammers didn't exist in the Viking age!"
"No wait, they do exist, but only smiths have them, and they're expensive as hell."
Bitch!
To be fair that could be part of a decent setup of some kind. For example, the players stumbled upon a village of dopplegangers who've observed humans but don't really understand them. So ordinary things are suddenly suspicious.
@@TonkarzOfSolSystem That does sound like a fun start to a quest.
Gorm:
*Is the name of the first historically verifiable king of Denmark*
This GM:
"ItS nOt ViKiNg EnOuGh"
OP's biggest mistake was hanging around as soon as he figured out the DM lied to him.
This. I don't even know what happened yet and I know he should have left immediately. A lying DM and a group of 9 players that can't get through introductions because of brooding spotlight hogs? Doomed from the start.
"As you go to say no, you say yes instead."
-XP to Level 3
Good ol' Colton
So hear me out: the party starts in a dimension of infinite taverns and needs to find their way out. Boom new campaign
You mean the beginning of C-team campaign for acquisitions Incorporated
Descent Into Tavernus.
If it's a labyrinth of interconnected taverns... Every door out of a tavern leads to next door taverns, the windows lead to further away taverns. Breaking a wall and going through will drop you off at a random tavern.
Each tavern with a random hostility to the party depending on the rumors of the older taverns.
I like the idea of a tavern groundhog day. say, the party was captured by a lich who is draining their life force and needs to keep the party in stasis, or the tavern is an illithid mental construct where everyone who is in the tavern is actually stuck in a tadpole breeding pen while a batch of tadpoles spawn and the traven is the mental equivalent of a shared holding cell.
I had a group one time where everyone literally hated me in real life but they had me there because they needed a tank. I thought they liked me, but they were pretending so I wouldn't leave. The DM made the characters in the story have a hatred toward my character because of who he was, my character matched my personality, hyper, silly, but willing to help. The characters kept him in the party because the enemies got tough and they needed extra help. Weirdly it matched the way they treated me in real life.
:(
I hope you've found some better people to play with my guy
@@JameSeraphim honestly I haven't played the game in almost a year because of them. They were my first group and was with them for a year. Its been hard to try and find good people to play with
@@curabletoxin roll the dice, I've been trying different groups until one stuck. Its easier than you think especially if you play online.
@@curabletoxin
You did not deserve to be treated like that. As far as I'm concerned, those 'people' are scum. I really hope you find a d&d group that also doubles as a group of real friends.
Believe me, the adage: 'No D&D is better than bad/toxic D&D,' isn't just a truth to live by, it's good for you and your health.
The DM: "The barkeep squints at you and asks why someone would want to buy an ale at a tavern, that's very suspicious."
Me: 0_0!?
Edit: Thanks for the three hundred likes.
I mean, he's just a barkeep, a guys that literally sells beer and ale for a living, having someone ask him for an ale is WAY TOO suspicious tbh.
"I have actual customers, and this place isn't being used simply as a convenient meeting place for adventure parties?"
Should have ordered a cocktail instead. Who the hell drinks ale in a tavern
The barkeep has been playing a lot of "Among Us" in his free time. He thinks everyone is sus.
Me: where's the menu. I'm about to skip town and go to the real adventure if this damn story keeps up this stupid plot device.
You know what they say, you can railroad a party to the back of the tavern but they’ll still wanna drink! HA YIRBEL LIVES!
DM: "The barkeep squints at you and asks why someone would want to buy ale in a tavern. Very suspicious."
Me: Well how the hell do you make your money around here? Selling bottle caps?
Barbarian Cleric (who doesn't know they're a cleric) *punches barkeep in the face at full force multiple times miraculously leaving no injuries*
If the DM was had multiple separate group come the same conclusion of just wanting to burn the mansion down because of how shit the adventure is they should realize that something's wrong with his story telling. It doesn't take a genius to understand that not everyone wants to play the same bland contrived story you want to.
The difference between a sage and an imbecile is that the imbecile always think, wtih 100% certainty, that he is a genius, while a sage always doubt their own thoughts.
- some random quote i saw on the internet, idk
It's not so much that the story was bland or contrived; but rather the fact that nobody knew what they were supposed to be doing, and players were being suspected as theives for basically no reason at all. If I had been playing that game, I too would have ended up burning down the mansion.
There's two types of railroading.
You DO NOT do the first one, throwing them on an unchangable path.
You SOFT railroad them. That dungeon they WILL find will teleport in front of them when the round a corner, the monsters will chase you and you will end up in the plot area.
@@anonymousanonymous9587 I don't get why that's so hard to understand. You're the DM, you can move things around if the players go in the "wrong" direction.
First story: Man should write a novel. He'll have to self publish, since no publisher would publish the crap book he's trying to write.
Second Story: DM needs to learn the damn rules if he intends to run a game. Just because you've ran 3rd edition doesn't mean you can run 4th, 5th, or even 1st or 2nd edition.
Vikings don't have hammers... HAMMERS.
YES BECAUSE THOR IS KNOWN FOR HIS SPOON OF COURSE.
THE ONE THAT'S TOO SHORT AND HE BEAT A SNAKE TO DEATH WITH
MY GOD.
It's even worse when you consider that swords were 'actually' rare in the early viking times and considered to be only available to the Viking noble equivalents because of the cost. Metal was not cheap... Axes and Hammers required far less as most of the weapon was made of wood...
If I could give any comment more than one like, it would be this one. I can’t think of a better way of phrasing how stupid this idea was.
“Why would someone buy Alr at a tavern” i-excuse me?
That DM talking about what was or wasn't in the viking age hurts to listen to as someone part of a viking re-enactment group.
8:25 "Writing doesn't exist in this world" Hmm... Press X to doubt
8:44 "He can sew *Runes* in his vest" So, this DM is saying runes isn't writing?
9:38 "Hammers are 10 times as expensive as swords" ...what? Does he actually have a stupid? How is a lump of wood/iron/steel on a stick more expensive than a long steel blade that requires extensive work to make? Not every viking had a sword, they were very expensive to make.
And only smiths have hammers? What about carpenters? Or ship makers? Or any other craft where a hammer is part of the toolkit?
10:19 I highly doubt that. It's more likely he's basing it off the pop culture perception of vikings.
Now, the thing is that there is a lot of debate what they did or didn't have in the viking age, and how prevelant certain things were. The vikings didn't leave many records, and most of what we know either comes from sagas written after the fact, witness accounts from various likely biased sources, or from a few burial sites. All of this leaves us with some questions as to what can be deemed historical, and what is either semi historical or complete fiction.
I had a GM one time while playing some sort of space setting RPG, had everyone in the party have a special chip in their heads. Anytime we were going to perform an action that would harm the ship we were on (or was just not what the GM wanted us to do) the chip would activate and make us not do the action. I quit soon after.
The idea of protecting the ship isnt bad actually, a lot of problems comes from distracted players fireballing something important without noticing.
But it needs to:
1- be used only in cases where the action is actually harmful to the players and general plot (like losing the ship itself), not harmful to the short term quest (burning a package that the party was delivering for extra money).
2- give the player a chance to change the action free, as in spells like Sanctuary where you can make a new target after you fail the save.
Both brutal stories. I feel bad for the story tellers with them having to go through the brutal DMs’ fantasy. Hopefully those two can find better groups to play with and have a good time then.
Story 1: Not gonna lie, the wave of people who initially left were the lucky ones, from the sound of it. With how soulless Roll-20 is, it doesn't surprise me that a DM would lose over half of the cast in the first hour.
The trick with Roll20 is never to meet your group there. There are some pretty nice tools for those who bring in players from offsite, but as to the open groups... yeah.
An interesting twist to the cliche of characters meeting in a tavern at the beginning of a campaign would be if before they left the tavern, it ends up getting attacked either due to an invasion from a foreign power (if the tavern is in a city) or a group of bandits (if the tavern is in a town with a very limited amount of guards). The attackers don’t even have to be human, it can even be a monster attack rather than the plot of a nation or bandits. Players could choose to either escape or take the opportunity to work on their teamwork by quelling the chaos together.
I just think it would be interesting to have a campaign start by giving the players a false sense of security for the first few minutes, just to throw them straight into the fire by having them fight reasonable level enemies right at the get-go in the now-ruined tavern.
It could also give them a good start regarding how npcs perceive them since they would be seen as local heroes for saving the tavern from such a sudden threat. Plus, it could potentially help them network with other npcs that may be useful to know later on, since other adventurers and important individuals may be spending their night at the tavern.
Or, similar idea: have a bar fight start, since having your party fight a bunch of mildly drunk people should be hilarious. Then again, I’m the kind of player who’d start a bar fight in every tavern with drunk patrons just to grab some popcorn
Congratulations, you just put more genuine consideration into planning a campaign than these DMs.
Nothing forges friendships better than shared hardship. If a group might be a little to stand-offish with each other few things work as well as having some belligerent group attack yours and force them to need to save each other
I do quite love this idea.
as a historian, that second story gave me a conniption. this dude realizes the viking age ended around the 11th century AD, not BC, right? wtf. Warhammers weren't developed during this time because steel plate didn't exist yet; chainmail existed, and so piercing weapons were far more practical, not because hammers were too heavy lol
This is just awful, has anything as frustrating as this ever happened with you?
maybe not this time consuming but...years ago i had this girlfriend that i was with. our relationship was...weak at best and i've spent years just trying new ways for us to connect as a couple and the last one was for us to play a couple's d&d game where the story would be heavily tilted towards romance. the game was intended to give us something to bond over and build up our real relationship through our characters but then our dm just kinda quit on us. i don't blame him for quitting (and it's not even the worst part of this story) because my girlfriend was also kind of a toxic brat at times and he had to leave for his own mental health but offered to teach another friend how to run the game in his place. this caused my girlfriend to throw and temper tantrum and threaten to not play if the original dm wasn't going to run it and that was just the last straw for me. i've spent YEARS being the ONLY one doing any work for the relationship (even though she basically admitted to not even knowing why she's with me in the first place) and i set this game up for US so i told her that i was breaking up with her on he grounds that she clearly didn't care about our relationship and i was done being the only one putting any effort into it. it all kinda sucked,but i don't regret breaking it off with her for a moment: it was a bad relationship that didn't even FEEL like a relationship and i'm better off without her immature nonsense.
Yes, but not for very long as we (the players) have fired DMs for such antics. The power actually resides in the majority as any player can literally be the DM, there is no actual requirements other than a willingness to take up the mantle. Those DMs that act like they have all the power and it is "their game" are just signalling their incompetency to be a DM.
It is a communal game and without players, it is little more than just a short story and probably a terrible one at that if you can't even attract or keep any players.
No, not really. As a person I would just leave the campaign there's no winners in this situation...
Haven't played with enough groups to have experience on the matter. Worst it was for me was being unable to get a word in edgewise and all the dialogue of my involvement in my first campaign can be recorded on a 5min video easily. I'm always really quiet around people I barely know and even when I'm more talkative I'm not very loud. I'm loud enough to be heard, but only if I'm the only one talking or so it feels like when a lot of people are very boisterous. Wouldn't say that I'm nervous or anxious when I meet new people, just prefer to be quiet and observing and only talk when I'm being talked to, it's my turn, or when I try to RP. Sometimes will join in a conversation when it's a topic I relate to. My character was the party tank/healer, a nature cleric dwarf that was neutral good. He's kind of a typical dwarf, at least when it comes to drinking which he doesn't do very often. Whenever the party was in a new village he would fish on the shores of the sea or river or if he couldn't fish he'd smoke his pipe just relaxing when the party wasn't traveling or fighting. Since it was my first campaign I didn't know what else I wanted to do, so my dwarf just chilled while trying to get eaten alive. The campaign was a arctic survival homebrew and nature was more threatening than any people we fought. It wasn't a bad group and the DM was having their first crack at being a DM, compared to the stories I've heard on the various D&D horror story youtube channels he was pretty decent. Just feel like they need more experience and experience on dealing with quiet people and not leaving us uncertain what to do. A few other small things, but otherwise not a bad first time DM, not sure if the campaign is still going having been kicked out of the campaign and kept from seeing what happened after being kicked out. My character got a happy ending and went home with his now wife, but I don't see anything wrong with seeing what else was going on. Mostly because it felt like I was being denied from finishing a good book. Plus I could've learned some things about RP, anyway not sure if I'll make another neutral good character again if they're just going to chill out of combat all the time lol. I'm unfortunately only able to D&D over discord, not just cause of covid, but don't have a game store that holds table top games and I don't have a PC to use Roll20. Hopefully soon I will, but don't know yet
Yep, had a GM for a Champions game (superheroes) who literally made my character the "sex" symbol of the group (I was the only woman of the group) and changed up my character dramatically when I was given a choice in game, without knowledge of what said change would come with. He turned my character into a mutant, when she was supposed to stay a magical item woman type. I'm still a little salty about that.
However, I have reclaimed the character and she is one of my strongest characters in my superhero fiction multiverse. She's no longer a sex symbol, and is instead known for her mystical knowledge and curiosity. She and my flagship character are fairly big foils for each other.
Multiple stories in one video? Yiss!!!
No wonder why most people don't play DnD because of these DMs, they're making the game no fun.
That second story makes me not want to make custom settings, _ever!_
there is nothing wrong with custom settings: it's just that if you have so many rules/bans that you can't be bothered to make a list of them,then you have too many rules/bans and need to chill the bloody hell out. also i spy yubel.>:3
It was one of the reason I stopped playing in homebrew settings many decades ago. The really unfortunate thing is that while some homebrews can end up being fantastic, most DMs are not up to the task.
Unfortunately, homebrews are kind of necessary these days with the lack of material support for most official settings...
@@JT5555 *there is nothing wrong with custom settings, except when they are done half-assedly by adding/banning stuff just because.
Indeed, if anything is crippling the players or making things way too easy for them, even if is just one of two stuff, still need to be worked on before applying to a campaign.
The only custom setting I ever played was a world with Lizardfolk that could be any sort of reptile appearance with unique abilities like camouflage (chameleon), able to cross water bodies fast (basilisk, crocodile) or be poisonous (komodo dragon, gila monster), and the DM allowed me to play a komodo dragon monk that added poison spit on his fists (+1D3 damage). Nothing game breaking, but still had something unique to my PC that I enjoyed.
The only group i ever had was almost pure custom 3.5 made far more realistic. A turn was 6 seconds i believe so the magic user didnt cast magic missile then stand around twiddling his thumbs etc. And we..maybe as a rule..created our own adventure. So we have these modules and whatnit but instead we decide to infiltrate this town and start a cult. Or the LE cleric protagonist (we preferred it that way) decides to do a thing to get a thing to. Please his god...and the dm was good enough to flow with it. Never used miniatures ot was all in our heads. After that seeing other 3.5 games etc seemed..lame and unrealistic.
I dm'd a oneshot later as a noob dm. With these two hypersmart hyperexperienced players..an 8th level ce assassin and cleric or something. With a contract on the 12+ level lg paladin(?) town leader. He was HEAVILY guarded. Could have soloed both of them easily even if he wasnt. They straighr up disassembled my clever plans, murdered him and his wife in their sleep, recovered an artifact i made for fun..got scared because it was mindnumbingly powerful and a demigod might hunt them down for it. Handed it over to their truely ce god. Who shrugfed and as a reward didnt slaughter them. I got outsmarted the entire time and it was awesome
@@craigtucker1290 DMing a homebrew campaing for 8 players in Mercer's Exandria Wildemount setting.
We changes some lore, but I love giving lore to my players out and we wrote our own stuff together.
I love working with them together, but I often feel like I am only running on 4 hours of sleep.
Edward Warren, first story poster here.
Wow, thanks so much for the amazing reading and artwork. I'm very grateful that at least something positive came out of that nightmare.
Which story was yours, the first or the second?
First. For some reason my name isn't showing up on my comment. Maybe because I just made the account to post?
Wonder what the DM of the second story would have thought of a player that tied a large rock to the end of a stick to hit people with? Because it's really, really hard to improvise something to pound against some enemy's shield- or a nail...
"Roll a persuasion check to convince him your not up to no good."
.... Sir, i just want to buy a sandwich
So, I'm a DM with a problem player except that might be too harsh. The short version of the story is that he runs away from plot hooks and only starts combat when he thinks the enemy (or shifty NPC) is weaker than he is. For example, the party needs a heartstone and they visit a lord who is known for hoarding, they catch a glimpse of a woman who runs away - "OK, we're leaving"
Wait, what? So there goes that plot of the woman being a hag who was forced to appear as the lord's trophy wife because he has her heartstone. And that wasn't the only time he did that that session. It's like he wants to be spoon fed an easy cmpaign.
That's easy: have a deity call upon him to go on a quest of valor, have a powerful villain threaten someone their character loves, or get them into a situation where their back is up against a wall (the group gets drugged, kidnapped, and forced to participate in a gladiator tournament).
Or, the more controversial option: talk to the player and figure out what's up
Not a DM, just a player, but:
- What do the other players think of his antics? Ask them if they're agreeing with him, if yes, you might have a reputation for difficult or unfair combat. If they see the problem, agree to have a talk with the player and maybe ask what the problem is. If he's too afraid of his character dying, you could encourage him to get some spells or scrolls or have him randomly come up upon a quest that gets him something to revive a person or something like that. But the real advice really would be to discuss this with the other players, just honestly admitting that they're actively avoiding all plot hooks because of this guy.
ok ok what about a diety called the lore lord who is a huge dork and after major events or when you feel like it. transports the party to his realm and asks quiz questions about the lore and gives magic items and gold if they get the questions right only way to learn the answers is following plot hooks, notes from defeated enemies, notes found in chests and drawers and by roleplaying
its a fun incentive to actually do stuff because the lord of lore may appear and give quiz questions about the lore they may/may not have learned
the idea is pretty stupid but I like it I might use it if I ever dm
The simplest solution is to have 3 or 20 ways to steer the group toward a plot point. It sounds like this person is the defacto leader of the group, or you're playing 1-on-1.
IE: Oh, he ignored the obvious reference to a woman down the hall you threw in his face. Later a young servant accosts him in an alley, begging for his help. The servant begs the party to help their mistress get free of the cruel ministrations of the lord who holds her hostage. If only they can return her family's treasured jewel to the Mistress. Then she would finally have the power to rise up and part from the foul lordling. And, of course, The Mistress would be willing to show her gratitude in whatever way the fine Heroes would see fit.
This sounds like a ..coward.,who wants to murderhobo but is afraid to. Not being mean just factual. If he's rping a coward fine..make him play an assassin or thief and NOT be party leader. If its who he is then d&d isnt for him. Tge game is all about taking risks to overcome dangerous obstacles. My nephews and somewhat my niece were like this. Wouldnt play minecraft if monsters werwnt turned off. Wouldnt play fos because someone might shoot them. You cant change that about them
This DM just sounds like the kind of person who one-ups you if you mention something interesting
We had a party that didnt leave the tavern for weeks in game because the DM could not get his act together. The Game was on messenger and we still had fun role playing some times with out the DM. Just hanging out in the Tavern.
Plot Twist, your party is in some strange form of purgatory taking the form of a tavern. You all died deaths and refuse to pass on fully because you're unsatisfied with the end your lives received. Pretty much Angel Beats, the DnD Edition! XD
@@JoshtheOverlander some of the players are in my group. I'll show them.
Random Idea: A Groundhog's Day adventure could do this really well. You just keep looping back to the beginning of the adventure in the tavern until you figure out the right combo.
I like how he didn't like that necromancers could hurt their party. But I assume like in pathfinder, 3.5 clerics can channel negative energy and fuck up their non undead allies. Or wizards with fireball, burning hands, or any aoe spell that ever exists. I'm pretty sure that loesr of a DM never played D&D in their life.
the big oooof.
I recall my first time. made a whole hedgemaze thing to a party. they attempted to hack through the maze. I quickly cam up with a reason why that wouldnt work, because I wanted them to do my thingie.
I said their swords hit metal tresses that the hedges were growing on.
They decided to climb up. And I learned my lesson and said. oh well. fuck me with a rusty chainsaw, you, you climb it....and now you can see the whole thing... and... it is...
and then revealed the whole thing because the beat the maze, just not how I expected. and that is a GOOD THING
A good DM is always prepared to concede victory if the players can bypass their obstacles.
@@craigtucker1290 Agreed. That was the lesson. I still attempt to give myself one every now and then, but hey, if I say the thing is a thing....then it is a thing until you change that or a NPC comes by and needs it changed.
A good GM, once something is in the works is out of the GM's hands.
@@druid_zephyrus Exactly, once in play, it is what it is. Nothing worse than when a DM makes changes in play that don't fool the players, but does erode the trust in the DM.
I would have added thorns. Also, if it's a magical maze, who's to say there aren't consequences from climbing up there. Is that a bird on the cliffs above? Wait, how high are those cliffs?? Oh.... that's a big bird....
@@kmcd6140 Because whatever you do as a DM has to be within the rules and seem plausible, rather than just saying it is a magical effect which comes off as just a weak crutch meant to railroad player's actions. If one can define the actual magical effects the maze has rather than just claiming it is magical, then the player's have a chance to do defeat the maze's restrictions and come up with a clever solution. Just saying they can't is reminiscent of the how the worst earliest D&D modules used to start, usually forcing players into a meat grinder and giving them no other options.
So in your example, there could be thorns to which almost any armor would render harmless and to having some sort of avian monster, they could lure it in and end up shooting it down with ranged attacks before it can reach them. Even if the maze had some sort of entangle ability, they could burn down some of it or even try to dispel the effect. The important lesson is define the effects and restrictions and how they can be defeated so that a clever party may do so.
For example, a player might have the ability to gaseous form/wraithform and pass through the maze like it wasn't even there. The player should be rewarded for their clever thinking rather than trying to claim there are walls of force or some sort of control vapor spells in effect, which some DMs would try and claim because they don't want their clever idea defeated so easily. And that is just bad DMing.
I feel offended as a gm that these guys are still called gm´s
The worst GM i experienced in the last couple of years was someone who claimed to have a lot of experience and was aiming to record our sessions to put them online. This GM had zero table controll, refused to take care of the newbee roleplayers when they kept asking about how the game works. Finally we ended up recruting a new player nearly each week while there was at least 1 player missing at any given session. Was eager to play again but not with this GM.
My "favorite" part of this desaster was the gm Farming in "Guild Wars" during the session.
Was thinking about dropping this as a full grown war storry but i guess there where to much horror storrys on this channel lately
Ok I love using homebrew in my games and everyone loves it. The problem with the DM from the second story is that he wanted to run a campaign that is dark and gritty....which tends to be very not fun for the players and leads to things getting banned.
For all my homebrew add ons, I have 1 rule that makes them work: "dont ban anything from the base game, everything should feel like a new addition not a nerf"
I'll occasionally ban one or two things (ie. Last game I limited range on detect magic/warlock magic sight to held items to allow for magical hazards and hidden items and let any scouts or rogues have a use, and this game I banned fireball and other such spells because its set in small tunnels with lots of swarm mobs,) but imo its all fine if you lay the rules down early and clearly
@@kluuvien8204 actually those are pretty fair. Detect magic funcioning like a radar is op. And normally id be against banning a spell like fireball, but because its all in tunnels its more like....im gonna ban this so you guys dont set off an explosion and kill your own characters
5:34 gee barkeep, why would I go to your establishment that advertises the purchasing and consumption of alcoholic beverages like the one mentioned. Surly you are familiar with goods and services as the fine people here are also drinking alcoholic beverages of different kinds . ( but seriously... you are in a tavern? What are supposed to do?)
Lousy DMing..practically begging the PCs to go full murder hobo on all his NPCs in total frustration/complete narrative failure...
Best move is to walk away from games with crap DMs & Ego driven PCs that hog the spotlite/ game & won't let others engage....
"Friend's don't let Friend Railroad" That's a great one. Sadly one of my old groups did not agree. We had a DM like that with threw out tons of homebrew rules that threw balance out the window. Then complained with the players curb stomped his monsters so he simply started giving his monsters powers that even high level creatures in the game would not have, like on hit save vs die with basic attack, sent after a group of level 3 players.
I tried to give him constructive criticism on how his rules unbalanced the game and the customer creatures he made didn't make the game fun and instead it made things rather frustrating. But he just insist they worked exactly as he wanted and there was nothing wrong with them. He wouldn't listen and it wasn't a surprise that people slowly drifted out of the group even though we were a group that played other types of games so as to make it a soft let down they often came up with excuses as to why they couldn't make game time, some more transparent than others.
Behind the scenes they commented on the issues but won't tell him directly just citing either "it's his game to run how he wants", which is a lazy coupout as you should try to help your friends improve not just let them keep making the same mistakes over and over. Others were equally non-commital just saying they didn't want to upset the DM. Being a good friend I only aired my complaints with his campaign to the DM and never brought up what others said behind his back as it was not my place to comment. The result of this though was I think the DM just thought I was the lone wolf who didn't like the way things were going and thus he could disregard me as everyone else was having fun. Ironically though I was one of the few who actually stuck around till he ended the campaign after 4 of the 7 stopped giving excuses as to why they couldn't make with two simply saying they had forgotten when he texted them after that night he declared he lost interest in the game since no one seem to want to play it.
Sadly I think this sort of thing happens a lot as you either get players who won't stand up to a bad DM to help them improve. Or you get an egotistic DM who won't listen to any feedback cause they are interested in their own story rather than playing a game with friends. The result is lot of stories like this and the one in the video. While it may not be fun for the players, at least it can entertain us here in the forums. :)
Wow, thanks so much for the amazing reading and artwork. I'm very grateful that at least something positive came out of that nightmare.
My general message for each of these DMs is actually the exact same.
WHITHER OR NOT YOUR PLAYERS ARE HAVING FUN REFLECTS IF YOU ARE A GOOD DM
so how do you tell if they are having fun without obvious feedback?
Two words: emotional states
If they laugh they are having fun, if they get mad at an evil villan they are invested, if you make them IRL cry from a tragedy you have hit the peak of DMing.
The important part:
If they dont care and barely interact you are not doing your job, if they pause things to wedge a complaint they feel strongly something is wrong and you should too, and IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 2-3 PLAYERS GHOST YOU SEPERATELY THEN YOU SHOULD NOT DM
There was a idea of a capaign where The party starts in The tavern lvl 1 and they finaly exit for The first Time at lvl 20
3:46 "..and half the party has left without a word."
Me: 9/2 = 4.5.. hol up.
Well, technically the dwarf stayed, but he was quietly "roleplaying" being passed out in the corner after one too many of those awful drinking games.
@@johnlasko1298 A valid interpretation. A few seconds later the player says they were included in those who left, though, so I'm not splitting hairs.
After the first story:
Did you just theorise that it was Agatha all along?? 🤔😏
😂 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Not gonna lie, I sang it while reading!
this one has been making the rounds, and i listen again every time because it's just. so much
Wow, really enjoyed this one :)
I thought DnD was a game you WITH your players not against. Show what I know..
3:56 I don’t get this mentality from some players who want to “solo a quest”
Your game has 9.... freaking NINE other players.
And let’s also not forget that he along with the rest of them are level 1.
Depending on how your characters built you could be taken down by a heavy sneeze let alone any enemy encounter that would be used that accounts for nine players (did I mention 9?)
Even in some of the really good action games in which your character is a bad ass 9 times out of 10 that badass had a team.
'a hammer is more expensive than a sword'. O>o
Sounds like a successful Heist. The DM manage to steal your time.
For me, The first story ends at the very beginning. Since that is a clear violation with the session zero stuff that was agreed on with him going back on the level and everything once he got you into the game. If not then, then when he told you guys to only trust yourself and the contact that never shows up and expected you to trust others despite your orders.
2nd story, if you are from 3rd e or 3.5 edition. You absolutely need to read 5e or you can't be a dm, it is just too different in editions. In 3 or 3.5 many dm's have a dm vs player mindset, and there wasn't session zero or player agency. These concepts came in 5 e from all the horror stories these old editions created. So these dm campaign building blocks are entirely new and need their nuances explained to them like new players to dnd for the first time.
I am a 3rd edition player who immediately loved 5 e and these changes. But I am not a dm, my old friend was one and he has never even given 5e a shot. If I was able to get him into a game I would have to have made sure he understood these differences.
I would have bailed at the first breach of trust. No dnd is still better than bad dnd.
While it didn't get to shine in the context of this story, Symbaroum is actually amazing. I love the setting. The rules are simple. If you don't like or want to learn new rules there is also a 5e adaptation kickstarter for it soon.
The system isn't exactly "low magic" but "magic" can be very dangerous and lead to slowly corrupting your character if overused. The magic that exists can however be exceptionally powerful.
This whole video boils down to "DM with ZERO knowledge of viking era makes bad house rules and character changes to be more viking era."
I love the idea of this GM refusing to re-evaluate, or rewrite his story.... Even though every group resolves to burn down his mansion.
Definition of insanity.
I've never been this early.
Doesn't matter lol
@@hariumonoke5071 I beg to differ, does matter, lol
@@willparry530 in what relevant way
Same
@@hariumonoke5071 In the free real estate way.
You know what they call a "bad GM"???
.. a piss poor novelist. ;o)
This has got to be one of the worst DMs I've ever heard of. I'd even take the airship from hell over this.
When it comes to story #1, don't get mad at your players when your clues are more cryptic than crouching at a wall to make a tornado appear.
Also, the suspicious ale comment made my brain hurt.
As far as the second game goes, banning one class, race, or spell is not the end of the world, and it can in theory help make your concept more believable - but you can't ban half the game, or it just becomes unfun.
"Mr Precise: Hammers dont exist in this world
Thor/Mjolnir: am i a joke to you?
This is the worst type of dungeon master. The one that stagnates and constricts all forms of creativity and individuality. The awful terrible dungeon Masters out there that say no you can't no you can't no you can't.
I recently had a player (lets call him A) who criticized me for constricting his imagination. What I did?
Not allowing A's lvl 2 human fighter an angelic backstory (she's a real Valkyrie who fell to Earth, lost memory and was essentially immortal). So no, he can't
Then A made an elf archer without backstory (well there was, but it describd none of his bonds, flaws or traces of personality). In the game, he didn't roleplay (unless a lengthy introduction that no one asked for counts) and only ever roll dices).
I tried to ask him about PC development: "Neh, I just wanna follow the party and kill big monsters". Ok, if that's fun for him. I create side stories for the party based on their backstory & traits, which means A will have none.
Later, I created a tomb of legendary paladin, who could not rest till he found a successor of his sentient sword - the Dawnbringer. He had a few tests of honor and honesty, which the PCs passed and earned his respect. Then he challenged them all for a fight. If they win, Dawnbringer would choose the best light bearer of them (it's intended for our Aasimar paladin) as master. The session ended and we were all excited for the big fight.
Suddenly, A declared this fight was against his code of honor, despite not telling anyone, me the DM included, about his PC personality before. A just declared so and called other players cowards and thugs for ganging up on an old man. When I told him the fight was balanced around the whole party vs boss or chance of a TPK is very high, but if A was so honorable, go and challenge for a duel (the old paladin HATES archers and assassins, thinking that close combat is true warrrior's way. The offer of duel will be met with the boss' wrath. A will die). So again, no he can't.
I asked him Are you absolutely sure? A said no, but our paladin should duel instead (speaking of cowardice). In the end, the rest spoke up and I gave the final ruling: A can join the fight, or step aside. Others accept the added risk and shall fight with, or without A.
A cried and left the party. In his PM to me, he thought the sword was intended for him. Dawnbringer had no tie to his non-exsistent story, but everything to a Paladin blessed by angels. Who could have guessed? Even if he killed our paladin to get the sword, it wouldn't choose him. He was a cowardice and arrogant archer the whole time. So... for the final time, no, he can't
He was not singled out in my party, though.
The hexblade warlock also got a Nope from me for trying "to fight with his butt". He would shove a sword up his ass and get another attack per turn.
Truth to be told, I've met worse. I can't just enable them. It's My game, My world. Made for the whole party to enjoy, not a singular asshole
A friend of mine ran a game once, and gave us all zero background to the world and goals. In the first location, we are supposed to investigate an area for clues. Unbeknownst to the rest of us, the dm rolled a nat 1 for how helpful the local npc's would be. Because the townsfolk were essentially idiots, we spent 5 real time hours trying to figure out what secret clue the fountain contained. It was just a regular fountain, the dm admitted at the end. Next session, a guy I invited to the game rolled a 1 on a piloting check and we ended up in another galaxy (he quit). We were railroaded for weeks into basically playing out this guy's fan fiction for some space opera books he likes.
"Why is it that everytime i run this campaign...everyone decides to burn the maynor down"
Me, whos never played and is a complete noob*
"Wait....that means youve played the numerous times before....and you got the same outcome???"😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
In all seriousness tho....too complicated, which made it too hard to play...
The very moment any dungeon master tells me a nondescript explanation of something like a fence being too high to climb, that's when I say all right I leave to the next town and find a different quest
Personally, I try to never tell my players no... They learn the hard way. We're playing Descent into Avernus and they found two of the bikes, well, stole them during a battle that allowed them to escape captivity. Since, they fashioned some side-cars from some cages and the Paladin wanted to try epically jumping from the side car while it was moving at full speed, so around 240ft/turn for double moves...
Literally asked if he's sure... To which he said yes. Fluffed the acrobatics royally, so I figured work it like falling damage based on the speed, then halved. The Paladin went to jump from the side car, hammer held high, completely misjudged the speed and distance to the enemy, then hit the floor feet first with a momentum of 240ft/6seconds... Then proceeded to take 12D6 damage as it went horribly wrong and he barrel rolled face first before stopping some 60 ft from the now-melee.
Let players make dumb decisions. Punish it, but also don't outright kill them for doing something they think is cool. Even if you 'don't' think it's cool... And if they roll well when it's a reasonable action, let them have their thunder for gods sake, it's why they are there...
"vikings didn't have hammers" must be the most ridiculous thing I ever heard... And I once played a character whose backstory was that she was obsessed with viking stories and after a bookshelf collapsed on her head, she thought she was a viking, resulting in DM asking me if vikings knew what horses were when our party encountered some impressive looking NPCs on horses & I had to break it to them that Loki gave birth to an 8 legged horse xD
It is pretty dumb. Even the freakin pre-roman Gauls had advanced metallurgy.
Wow. These DMs are pure trash. Like the DMs are so full of themselves that even Doctor Doom would call them egotistical
Gotta love when NPCs all act like ultra paranoid lunatics in a D&D game.
Or of course "I ask the peasant woman politely if she can point me to the direction of the general store" DM: "She turns and hits you with a 9th level disintegrate spell".
It's crazy some DMs don't think this kinda thing is a bad idea ^
Railroading has its place, but not like these things.
Seasons, war, natural disasters, are all examples of railroading that is acceptable.
These are things that are understandably outside of a players control after all.
But forcing players down a path that has no obvious signs to follow, leaves things to chance such as the dice game, or relies heavily upon the players working out and understanding the narrow path you want/need them to follow inorder to progress the game; is not only poor DMing, it's shitty railroading that should never be acceptable.
If the DM wants to restrict mechanics, rending various classes useless, or even limit the types of weapons that are available, then they should just only permit classes that reflect the world they're wanting to build.
They should also limit encounters and interactions to reflect these restrictions.
For example, if all ranged weapons are to be limited to firearms that will not be available to the players until later in the game, and magic is not allowed, then do not force your players into inescapable encounters with flying enemies that stay out of reach (personal experience), do not force them into endless waves of guards if you want them to get arrested and to go to jail, and do not force them to a situation where they need stubborn NPCs to do things, but that refuse to interact with your players (again, personal experience)
I hate the whole "npc ignores you" "npc vital to quest looks at you witg derision on his face and tells you to f off' me: my very powerful character who doesnt even take shit from Demons backhands him across the face and asks him "pardon??"
Dm" you cant doooo that becaue plot reasons'..
@@cdreid99999
Day 1 of campaign:
You and your party are the new recruits of an adventurer's guild, and need to start building a reputation for yourselves. The setting is based around the guild structure as seen in the Fairy Tale anime.
Adventurer's join guild's and take on tasks that get posted on the guild's bulletin board.
Your task, is to choose a job off of the board for yourselves.
The first job you and your party agree upon, is a simple protection gig. The pay is low, but the client is a member of the merchants guild, and is in need of a security escort.
You are new to town, no one knows who you are. Not even the leaders of your own guild knows who you are. And yet, as soon as you arrive on site, guards call out your names and decree that you are under arrest.
Turns out that the random job that your party chose, just so happens to be an ambush designed to catch you.
You are not allowed to surrender, the guards are treating your entire party as if you're all deranged murders that can't be trusted, and fight as if they mean to kill you.
So you fight. But for every guard you defeat, 2 more takes their place. You can't run as all escape routes are blocked.
Eventually, all party members are over whelmed and knocked out.
You come too days later. You find yourself chained and shackled to a dungeon wall. You are seperated from your party members. You have been stripped of your gear and are wearing soiled rags. The floor is covered in piss and shit.
You share your cell with other prisoners, each looking more desperate than the other. They don't like you, they don't trust you, and refuse to talk to you.
Guards throw food and water into the cell, causing your cell mates to fight eachother over whatever scraps they can get their hands on.
This continues for days, you never get enough to eat or drink. You are regularly beaten by the inmates and guards.
Magic can't be used here.
Now try to escape.
The DM never mentioned anything like this was going to happen when we were asked to design our characters.
He wanted a prison escape game.
The whole adventures guild setting was a lie.
No matter what job we choose, no matter how many guards we defeated, he was going to have us thrown in jail.
Why did I keep trying to play with them?
...Sum cost fallacy
I generally DM nowadays but on the rare occasions that I play. I can't stand railroading. I go out of my way to break it when that happens. As a DM, I try to figure out the most likely 3-5 significant choices that my players will make based on the circumstances they are presented and I usually get it right. The minor choices I ad lib and run with. Good story is often born in the moment and I don't like killing creativity from anyone. The best moments happen out of the blue. Some DM's just can't figure that out. I prefer the open world I run. More work but just as much fun to make as it is for my players to play. I enjoy the suspense of what will my players do? That is real DnD.
The first DM was dangerously similar to one I run Curse of Strahd with
There's a good concept buried in the first one-shot... of course it's totally undermined by the DM's handling of it.
The first story sounds like someone I used to have as a dm, he was also a player in a campaign I made that started out similar with a mysterious letter and a meeting place at a tavern in a specific city I created for one of my homebrew worlds. Except that the guards and townspeople were suspicious but friendly, and the clues in the game were completely different. When I ran it, the players stopped playing after meeting their benefactor, but not because they were railroaded or couldn't solve it, instead it was because they were all playing too many games at once and two of my three players decided they didn't like my campaign because "I gave them too much" I've never heard of a party that complains when the dm gives them stuff, but meh, these two players did.
The second story is just ridiculous. The DM clearly didn't know his history very well. There have been hammers since the stone age. Whether they were used as weapons or not is a bit different, and I can't speak on it, as I don't know. Besides that though, hammers like what a Smith uses to forge a weapon were common place. And they have never, as far as I know, been restricted even as weapons. Except in the feudal age, but it wasn't because they were more expensive, it was so that landlords had less to fear from peasant and serf uprisings.
The second story just makes me want to scream. The only thing that makes ANY sense is the goodberry bit.
Interesting seeing two stories in one video, I wish there had been some sort of transition to make the divide clearer though.
How was it not clear?
@@fallenhero3654 It’s clear there’s some kind of change, but with the similar background it takes a minute to realize the stories are by two different people and really are only connected by the theme of cruddy DMs.
What pitiful, pathetic excuses for DMs. Absolutely disgraceful. If you think this is great DMing, you're wrong and bad and should feel bad.
9:10 Parole sante 😂
> realism
< only blacksmiths have hammers
so... poor carpenters, I can't imagine how annoying it must be using a blunt sword to hammer in a nail for the Longhouse XD
Should have left immediately, sent a message to the DM saying "screw you, liar" and blocked all communication.
If a GM did that I'd say, "My character proceeds to disassociate entirely and stars forth like a drooling idiot as clearly no one is home anymore" *disconnects*
Hi allthingsdnd, i recently gotten into dnd and am even apart of a dnd club online. I love your videos, and even posted my characters background/origin on the website. Im still waiting for an admin to approve it, but i do hope you enjoy it. Tbh, the origin felt halfa**ed given that it took me 5 minutes to write and come up with, which is why i was surprised to hear that my peers actually enjoyed it. I mostly want to see what you and the rest of the community think about it.
Just the funny part of the first story, after the DM rages over why the party hated his railroading bull that forced them to burn the quest location and leave IRL, he tries to invite them back to the campaign the next day. Dude, anyone home in that empty shell you have for a head? Have you heard the definition of insanity? There were previous parties that had the same reaction as this one, you think they're coming back? They HATED the story, read the writing on the wall that's bigger than China's wall.
5:56 well, if you are a tiefling is something that happens
Nine other players.
Me: BYE
Hey, can I light this entire box of dynamite to break out?
???
You can't: the dynamite is all wet
*Pulls out nitroglycerin* I shake it and it goes boom!
Bad GM: I have a set way for the characters to solve this problem and I will block any other way
Good GM: Let me put this problem that I have no set solution for and see if the players can think of a way to solve it
Heh, in my early days as a gm I used to railroad a lot, but fortunately my players always followed the game by their own will so it wasn't that bad (one of them actually found my very first adventure the best, and that was the one I railroaded the most)
I can understand why gms railroad but it should always be balanced and adaptive because you cannot know when your players will derail :D
Sorry sir, this tavern only serves dirty water and fistfights. If you want ale, you should go to a... what do you call a place that serves ale again? Oh, right: A TAVERN!
"why would anyone want to buy an ale in a tavern" there are no words for how stupid this line alone is, some people just should not be dm
First warning you are on roll 20 with randoms.
Second warning there are NINE players.
Third warning you are all level 1.
... level one characters aren’t losers. Or scrubs. They’re the most powerful people your average person will meet, and some are LITERAL folk heroes.
Sure thats the idea but its not exactly supported by mechanics though.
What?
Dig a hole in the ground?
What was the indicator for that? Did they even have tools?
So many red flags.
I feel that this party was trolled.
I've heard so many stories of DMs being assholes and just being completely unreasonable. It is good that not all DMs are like this but it's sad how often some egotistical ass tries to run a campaign.
I feel glad that I don't have people like this ruining games that I play in.
Man after 4:30 mins this game sounds so miserable. DM, if you want to tell a story this badly (lying you're little butt off to get everyone in the call) WRITE A BOOK! DND is a team game, EVERYONE gets a chance to help write the story! Its no fun if nobody else gets to contribute.
9:00 mins WOW! Give your players a list of rulebooks and ALL homebrew rules upfront and in writing. Don't screw with PC's character sheet unless it doesn't fit the setting, Possibly OP homebrew is involved or something might make the other members uncomfortable. Even then, ask the player to make something else, don't try to mess with the sheet like they won't notice.
If there's one thing to learn: Its a group game, play it as such, or write you're own story.
Sir Galahad: "Come on. Let me face the peril!"
Sir Lancelot: "No. It's too perilous."
In the second story the DM banned like half of the things in the game, lmao. Personally I just ban resurrection spells for narrative reasons (I make some legendary items that allow it tho), I like the idea that you need to take seriously every important enemy, it builds a funny tension and can lead to epic and traumatizing moments.
The GMs for both the stories sound like nightmares to play with, halfway through the nonsense the stuff the second GM is going over I would be compelled to point out all the things I see he is getting wrong, share links to some Historical RUclipsr (RUclipsrs who do historical content) videos related to what I'm talking about, and if the DM still insisted on his nonsense just up and leave the game. I don't like it when DM's race lock players, but I'm willing to let it slide if they can give a valid reason, beyond "I just want you all to play humans" type arguments, for the players to play a single race.
In both of these stories the gm sounded like he wanted to write a book and not make a fun and entertaining game for his players. This is not the way to GM! If you want to write a book then write your book. Don't bring your friends into it cuz you know what's going to happen. Exactly what happened to OP in these stories.
Epic fail as a GM. Boo..
The best DMs engage the players with interesting plots, scenarios..multiple choices, room for player's creative / problem solving / roleplay ..
Please give us some positive stories like some of those you've narrated before, it's getting depressing lately to ear about all those bad players or GM :-) Please!
Yeah, much as people say they want to hear horror stories it's not really a good thing to JUST listen to those. Better to mostly listen to glory stories to get ideas and have a few horror ones thrown in just to remind yourself what tings not to do.