Talking About Power Creep in Pokemon
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Power really do be creepin', you know?
Core-A Gaming's video: • Analysis: Why We Shoul...
My Twitter: / oakin64
Music Used:
Azalea Town- Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver
Anville Town- Pokemon Black and White
Ice Path/Dark Cave- Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver
Video(s) Used:
How GOOD was Sylveon ACTUALLY? - History of Sylveon in Competitive Pokemon- False Swipe Gaming
Resources Used:
Bulbapedia
Pokemon Showdown
False Swipe Gaming 
Развлечения
Calling this power "creep" is like calling the Kool-aid man smashing through a wall stealthy.
When pokemon like garchomp is considered low teir you know shots gotten out of hand
If i had a shot whenever i see Great Tusk, Ogerpon, Urshifu, Flutter mane, Iron Valiant and Kingambit in single battles, i could have enough shots to murder a whole ass city
Gamefreak: Doesn't give powerful Pokémon like Dragapult and Dragonite reliable STAB moves
Also Gamefreak: releases broken as hell Pokémon such as Mega Rayquaza and Calyrex Shadow Rider.
Eeyup, no double standards here.
most of the legendaries are so absurd when it comes to talking about power creep that it becomes comical when you see how badly they warp teambuilding, Mienshao became more usable because its a mon that has access to fake out + wide guard and is immune to fake out itself
@@oakin6441 NTM Inner Focus was buffed to negate Intimidate, so sending out an Incineroar might as well be losing with extra steps.
My annihilape has destroyed every dragonite so far
Also not giving rampardos rock head, makes it slow and frail, don’t forget about Archeops having defeatist
@@oakin6441it's a legendary pokemon. Would be weird if it wasn't absurdly powerful.
I think that abilities are a far bigger issue than stats/distributions. For example, the two box arts getting arbitrary power boosts on their already busted abilities, or Moushold getting technician.
And moves are huge as well, but I'm not discussing all that atm. At least terapagos is kinda reasonable.
Maushold would be more powerful if it could abuse Technician more, but Normal not being a really good offensive type by itself.
Koraidon/Miraidon on the other hand they just kinda do whatever because their movepools give them completely unresisted coverage assuming their favored weather/terrain is set up
@@oakin6441 Moushold was given population bomb and technician. They didn't need to give a pokemon with such an insane attack an ability that synergized with it so perfectly, but they did.
Koraidon and co are busted for many reasons, but as I said, the issue is mostly things besides stats. Abilities are just one example of that(and neither were allowed to have worse or old abilities like drought or electric surge)
In a way gen 9 feels like a second gen 5 (in competitive terms).
The introduction of hidden abilities lead to so many broken pokemon back in the day.
People seem to forget how broken a lot of hidden abilities were.
I never had played gen 5 competitive, but yeah, given how strong some of the pre-gen 5 HAs were to pokemon like Dnite and Serperior I could imagine
@@oakin6441 Not only where they enough to make some pokemon like blaziken join ubers, but many of them (mainly the weather related ones) were nerfed on gen 6.
They completely changed how a lot of pokemon were played.
Except that this Gen did Power Creep much worse than any other generation. Weavile still has Knock Off and Triple Axel, yet it's not even a shadow of what it was in Gen 8. And I saw Milotic in PU, which, if true, is astounding as this was not supposed to happen after the limited distribution of scald
Now some of those broken HAs are nerfed. Protean and Contrary activate one time only
@@nishant9289 How many old pokemon were viable without requiering their secret abilities?
Pokemon badly needs a reset. Rebalance everything. Insane abilities should mean less than average stats. I know that in general game design needs to be a lot more careful with nerfing than buffing but I think it is badly needed here. Bring older pokemon up to the new average base stat totals, nerf all the weirdly broken stuff as stupid as strong jaw dracovish and beyond, rework some abilities like good as gold, and then I think we’d be getting somewhere. Doesn’t need to all be perfectly balanced, the game was never designed for that, but a misdreavus with spikes shouldn’t be outcompeting giratina.
And since I’m changing things anyway, give ice a status condition they can apply to cut special attack, and all those bulky ice types like abomasnow and avalugg a move that gets rid of ice weaknesses as long as hail is up, maybe, idk. Would need testing and rebalancing, something gamefreak apparently stopped doing a while ago.
I wouldn't say that they aren't sill doing it, but they do need to be more heavy handed with how approach older mechanics, Ice typing is due for a change on the type chart, and some pokemon would appreciate a stat buff since they aren't the shiny new toys anymore
I completely agree with this, a lot of Pokemon need complete stat redistributions and buffs. Pokemon with “nuanced stats” that aren’t 100% Attack or SpAttack get completely punished by these new Pokemon where most of their stats are dedicated to either Attack/Special attacks with broken abilities.
Edit: MOST HBST Pokemon should have nuanced stats, most pokemon shouldn’t be 130 spattack 60 attack for example without a major drawback.
@@AnonDudeBro I also remember watching a video about how Pokemon has far fewer defensive abilities than offensive ones, I think introducing more could help with the unrelenting offense we have today
@@AnonDudeBro yes absolutely! Bring mixed attackers back!
@@oakin6441 I think introducing new abilities to solve existing problems is only going to push powercreep even further. I do not want to see the next legendary have an ability that automatically counters all physical moves or something. I would not be surprised if we saw that in a couple generations unless gamefreak takes direct action to address their powercreep. I really, really prefer to see them fix things we already have.
Gargnacl has purifying salt AND salt cure… it’s bulky and has recovery.
They just wanted to make an actually good defensive rock type.
I don't understand why Game Freak made a new status condition in PLA(frost bite) and didn't add it to S/V with pokemon like Flutter Mane with a base 135 SpA?
I think they should take 1 step behind to take 2 steps foward. Stop cramming Gmax-Tera-Z-Evolution every new game, forcing the meta to orbit around them and actually improve the weaker mons and nerf the op ones. But usually gamefreak takes q step behind and 9 steps behind
Yugioh did this. Was a HUGE player for years, then they added synchro and this and that and that and fking this and that. I said no more for me.
its always the issue of trying to push the design space, its how YGO went from Goyo Guardian to Barrone de Fleur or Missus Radiant to S:P
From what ive seen, im not sure if Slaking without truant would be broken now.
it would be strong for sure but not broken
Your Lickilicky profile picture slaps. Shoutout
Personally, on top of buffing older Pokemon, there are some Pokemon that desperately need nerfing. Especially some that were introduced in Gen 9.
Like you said, there's just some mons that wouldn't have been designed the same way were they made in a different generation.
There's just so many broken threats due to the existence of Paradox Pokemon, the way Game Freak designs new mons nowadays, and the fact that the Gen 9 roster has the most new mons since Gen 5.
Anyways, I'm really hoping Generation 10's roster is more balanced than Gen 9. I'm sure Game Freak can come up with some creative ways to make the new Pokemon viable in ways that aren't making them blatantly overpowered.
yeah the special pokemon really turns up the power level every time we see them
Please keep uploading! Love what you’ve done so far, hope to see many more
The newer Pokemon are min maxed better than most older gen mons for sure. That said alot of them still have interesting niche play. I loved reg f because it was actually really diverse and allowed for alot of creativity. Even in reg g it feels more diverse than previous restricted formats. I think the game is fairly balanced to more fun play for the amount of Pokemon we currently have access to. They over did it with flutter mane though
one thing i liked about legends arceus balance, anything u wanna train could be useful
definitely ban list. If you just buff everything, the whole game is on 7-10 turns or it becomes a stall war
There’s several Pokémon that need buffs
pokemon is fun because of the user-defined tiers, stuff like RU and PU and the like let every pokemon shine and I think the existing system is completely fine. a high majority of players don't really ever get into doubles at all so these problems really don't matter as much.
The user defined tiers are really good! But as more and more pokemon get added, it's gonna be hard for some pokemon to keep their competitive relevancy. As pokemon get stronger and stronger weaker or more niche pokemon like Dodrio and Mesprit can't compete even in those lower tiers.
@@oakin6441 which is when you just add another lower tier to accommodate them, you can always split em off more
My opinion might be a bit unpopular but I thinks they should restrict the amount of pokemon allowed in each game there too much , if they only allowed a selected slice of all pokemon it will easier to control but the problem with this approach is that your favourite might get cut and to that a huge bummer
this would be easier if played on a hypothetical Pokémon Stadium 3; where only select Pokémon per season/regulation would be permitted on a battle team while still allowing you to have a more expansive selection for a main series game
while the dex cuts did suck (Indigo Disk was my savior thanks to finally giving Deoxys a worthwhile game to be in) i think in general they're a good start to the balancing factor: imagine how this meta would be if VGC had to deal with Xerneas, or Tapu Koko as an unrestricted ETerrain setter allowing for something like CalyIce + Iron Hands Trick Room
ultimately, without the existence of tiers like Smogon has, i think probably the best way to balance cartridge competitive is banlists like SwSh Series 6, which banned some of the most used Pokémon a lá Pokémon GO and allowed for more underutilized Pokémon to show niches
Power Creep is for sure out of hand when a fanmade legendary pokemon, like Primal Cascoon, that has 5 INSANE abilities all built in a single attack with no drawbacks, and people tell you "it might make UU with some support" 😅
gen 12 leaks are gonna be like "they're giving Mewtwo a fifth Mega form that doubles its HP, Sp.Atk and Speed while giving it +50 base in both defenses and gives it STAB on Fighting, Fire, Ice, Ghost and Dark moves" and people would say it's fake cuz it's not broken enough
Honestly, I love power creep. It's inevitable, as without it, there'd be no reason to use newcomers over old favorites. However, it needs to be done in a way that doesn't invalidate old favorites. With the fangame I'm designing, I'm giving buffs to certain existing mons that are underwhelming, such as better base stats, new moves and abilities, new Mega Evolutions, and even new evolutions and regional variants.
4:50 "Pokemon limiting the 'dex . . . had artificially forced power creep to be reduced"
In VGC, the first year (or close to it; the regulation set system introduces some wrinkles) of a new gen allows ONLY Pokemon in the regional Pokedex, regardless of when transfer becomes an option. Unofficial competitive is forced to adapt now, sure, but by and large the dex cut brings nothing new or good to the table, even to this day.
My pet peeve notwithstanding, nice video! In spite of what I just said, I think there *is* kind of a failsafe for powercreep in the fact that not all Pokemon will be available in ever game- stuff like the Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokemon, due to how many of them there are and how tied they are to a central concept (wormholes, a time machine), are fairly unwieldy to keep shoehorning in every couple games and thus might 'rotate out' one year and never return. With that in mind, I think a step in the right direction will be to sacrifice the paradox mons in the future, like you said (as much as losing Walking Wake will pain me), and start walking back either how many effects an ability can have (e.g. Hadron Engine having two, Mind's Eye having THREE) and/or how minmaxed/polarized stats can be. You'll notice stuff like Flutter Mane manages to push absurd stat values without actually creeping the expected BST by way of just dumping the others really hard. I want to see suboptimal stat allocations again, like 80 base special attack on a mon which is clearly only going to use physical moves. These 'wasted' points keep a Pokemon's other base stats from being absurd, which puts the burden of minmaxing entirely on player choice- or gives the player leeway to slap a special attack on their starter pokemon ahead of challenging the next gym, purely for fun.
I would also be down for that, but as you probably know, pokemon who are a jack of all trades aren't typically very good unless they have absurd stats to back it up, Scovillain, Coalossal, Lickilicky, G-Slowbro are worse than pokemon who share their typing because they aren''t as optimal as others.
It WOULD be better for a playthrough and I love using pokemon like these in them, but in a competivive sense, they will always be lacking because they can't hold up to Ogerpon, H-Arcanine and others.
As for the Legendary problem, I think Pokemon is always gonna find a way to shoehorn in more legendaries, either with another legendary like Hoopa or the gen 7 ones, or by making a mechanic that allows them to spawn, like the raid dens or snacksworth, I would also prefer them to either stop doing this or vastly shrink the legendary pool, as it makes these games lose focus on what legendaries could be culturally important to the reigon rather than putting them in for reasons
Can’t do the dex thing because people will complain. They won’t have their favorite pokemon. I remember sword and shield or scarlet and violet originally did that. People were pissed so I don’t think that will work in theory.
I dont either, it'd be the most divisive action they could take if they wanted balance over favorites.
Can confirm. 🥲
Didn't Black and white do the same thing and people now kinda praise the decision of cutting the dex to only feature new exclusive to the region monsters, or has that sentiment dried up over the years?
@@TheForgidbearbackers The issue is you could still get the older pokemon, in the postgame and through transfering, in the new games theres over 200 pokemon that you just can't ever get, even if you have them in home, you just can't transfer them.
@@A_Hardy_Lopunny Then I say, why not do it again?
I’ve played the games until gen7, and I have to say that Gen3 onwards made me hate the battle system. Gen2 strikes the perfect balance for me, held items are important, but there are no absurd abilities. EVs and Natures aren’t a thing to worry about. And it overall feels like my strategy matters more than actually just having optimized Pokémon.
GSC are the only games I come back to periodically, despite them not having the physical/special split.
Actually I decided to make my own VGC format with a handful of friends! It’s called the AKKUP format. Basically limiting the pool of usable Pokémon and banning all forms of legendaries or “special” Pokémon. Power creep has just gotten very high, so I’m not as into it.
I love alternate formats in Pokemon, just would be bummed out that Incineroar is still very much viable but I'll take what I can get, I wanna use TR with things like Rhyperior and A-Exeggutor
@@oakin6441 certain Pokémon are still banned. Believe the list of usable mons is around 200 rn. We are aiming even lower than the “viable” Pokémon. Like if Arcanine was in the meta he would be used the most without a doubt.
I liked before actually watching the video but I already know its PEAK!
Radical Red mitigated this by giving weaker pokemon unique/legendary abilities and moves at certain levels as well as stat adjustments like
Surging strikes & Jet Punch on Poliwrath, Floatzel
Wicked Blow on Drapion
Strength sap on Parasect, Vileplume
Photon Geiser on Solrock
Vileplume always has Strength Sap since USUM
Nice video!
I don’t really care how powerful they make new pokemon as long as a wide variety of pokemon are useable. The “big 6” teams of gen 6 is way worse than anything today even with less total power creep
I think the best way for them to fix the power creep problem is to just divide the gens because otherwise pokemon needs to do some really big hard nerfs to a lot of pokemon.
Yeah, looking back at it if we got something akin to NatDex in singles it would be a mess, there would just be so many absurdly powerful pokemon running around
I think they should work on buffing old Pokémon instead.
I think the game just needs a rebalancing tbh.
Gen 1 and especially Gen 2 mons need help in the stat department, as its clear the design intentions of the past are different from today's.
Todays mons are all midmaxxed or designed with specific intention.
Meanwhile older mon stat spreads are all over the place.
I mean look at the history of the ice type. It only took like 9 generations for them to get them right.
I used to think mega's where the way. But their a generational tool, and centralize the problem.
My favourite mon is houndoom. Why run a Mega houndoom, when I can run MegaZard, set up the sun and not care. This runs even worst when some megas just win the game.
In short, stat rebalancing for older mons would be best. Especially those before the special/physical split. And add more abilities/ special moves.
We have alot of abilities, some are just upgraded versions of others.
Look at what sheer force did for Nidoking, or Neutralizing gas did for weezing.
This is extreme in gen 2 mons case where I genuinely think Tyranitars long stay is by accident. Lots of these mons need another evolution, more BST, a regional or a better ability.
Give houndoom better stats, and a special ability and move is what I'm saying.
What’s with the blur effect? I think a blue gradient effect would work better.
it lets people not have to focus on the battle, it would be too visually distracting
People like using their favorites. Its a game, its meant to be fun. Ban lists aren't fun in my opinion. Buffing and updating older pokemon designs is a must if they were to tackle powercreep at all
Don't need a ban list. Just a tier list. An environment were weaker mon can thrive in. I haven't played since Gen 5, but I remember enjoying playing with Under Used and Over Used Smogon meta with my friends.
Nobody is using Flutter Mane and Goldengo in tournaments because it's their favorite, they use them because they're busted.
@@Gerbert67exactly
thanks for the video
Y did you choose lickilicki as your avatar?