Not sure how this game works but IRL, ”wasted spark” is a very common ignition-configuration. Not sure it makes sense in the game though. For example, ignite cyl 1 and 3 at the same cycles and then 2 and 4 together.
You just use the "Engine Tool" script and use the linear preset. Works good enough. And yes, firing order and crank angles only changes noise, power only depends on the number of cylinders and other settings. (Linear = scrap mechanic order)
The firing order in low-displacement engines does not directly influence power, but it is widely used to avoid stress on the crankshaft and the use of counterweights that influence engine efficiency.
If you didnt know, you can right click on the rpm setting in the cylinder head menu and type a much higher redline, like over 8000 rpm (things tend to go crazy past 6000 rpm so be careful)
What you've made at 8:33 is a crossplane parallel twin. And btw they don't turn into 2 strokes. By setting the firing order to 1 -> 1, both cylinders go through intake, compress, combust and exhaust at the same time, instead of switching between each other.
as has been said by many: The firing order and crank offset are purely cosmetic. The sound of the engine is akin to a 2 stroke, but it is cosmetically a 4 stroke engine. The only things that truly affect the performance of the engine are the number of cylinders (total possible power), and the volumetric efficiency (controls torque value). Most things you've been experimenting with are purely cosmetic.
In theory, if you discard the effects on exhaust pressure built by exhaust gases, it shouldn't matter in the torque output which order the pistons fire. The pistons are all firing in the same cicle. The reason why firing order becomes important is because of shaft balance, stops vibration, resonant pressure wave generation in the intake and exhaust, which further can increase horse power.
8:00 actually I think there were British twins that were like that, the pistons moved together and fired at a 360° interval, there were even some where they fired at the same time at 720° intervals.
The 2 cylinder 4 stroke parallel piston configuration actually exists , i have a bike with it, it makes a particular sound. And the last configuration its called crossplane (4 cylinder with the crankshaft rotated every 90 degrees) and exists on the yamaha r1 since 2010
there are great advantages to both, but the 180 degree offset 2 cylinder is better for torque applications because there is combustion more often while the engine with no offset is just a big 1 cylinder
I’ve been watching and trying to get my game to run stable Sorry if my last comments sounded harsh. I hope you can take constructive criticism from time to time. Speaking of crank designs, that monster engine of yours would have so much vibration. Also the firing order on your 4 cylinder is actually 1,3,4,2
It's quite simple. There's a firing order which you can set. Why on earth would you have a firing order on a 2 stroke? That's not even possible. In that case the crank adjusts the firing order, not the head (which is the camshaft and spark plugs IRL)
I mean, it's to avoid premature detonation right. If you have a multi cylinder 2 stroke, you don't want to say, fire piston 1 at the top of its compression while piston 2 is at bottom dead center and has no fuel in it.
@@ElderonAnalas obviously the spark plug is only going to go off when at TDC. But when that's pre-programmed (such as in this game), then there is only one firing order possible. Whereas with a 4 stroke engine, you can very often have many possibilities for firing order
Yall do realize yall can have a spark plug go off both a TDC and BDC . In a 2 stroke there's a magneto on the fly wheel that sets ignition (kinda like a distributor cap) on car.. for the video. If he wanted to check 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Kan should of did. 1 & 3 for timing. (That's normal 4 stroke engines) and 1 and 2 is 2 strokes
Kan, I'd love to see you engineer a wishbone cantilever suspension with steering and a drive axle. I'm struggling a bit with my 8x8. I used ball joints on my steering and cv axles for my drive but there's some tension somewhere I can't figure out how to get rid of it
Playing this game I think it’s safe to say these engines are 4 stroke. Also another channel called brokeboybuilds made a video also showing timing doesn’t affect power
four stroke cycle in four words: suck, squeeze, bang, blow (which happens over two full revolutions, each stroke is either an upstroke or a downstroke)
actually the twin engine from the Fiat Panda is in fact a 900cc synchronous 2 cylinder engine. I drove one a copule of times and i can tell you that you can really feel the balancing issues, like from the 1000 to the 2000 rpm feeling like driving an old tractor and over that range it finally becomes smooth 7:59
@@Retrogen_boi thats another older one that had a 2 cylinder but i honestly dont know if it is synchronous. The 126p prosuction ended in 1991 but the Panda twin air its still in production since the early 2010’s
8:00 the only two I2 engines I've had any experiance with have had the 180 crankshaft setup. my Ranger and my dad's old John Deere Model B. they sound like like your first test engine. it gets a bit drony after a while...
It looks like the RPM value on the graph gets too high wrt the other too values, making it hard to see the patterns there. It might be worth repeating this without RPM on the graph.
U can tell its a 4 stroke by the way the exhaust looks. 2 stroke has a resonator to provide back pressure while the piston is moving infront of the exhaust port and the chamber has relative negative presure; to pull in fresh air and fuel better
also u can tell form the otuside if its 2 stroke or 4 stroke in a 2 stroke the top part dosnt exist the fuel comes in trought ports that the psiton closes and nto the valves it would eb impossble for this to be a 2 stroke
A American V8 engen hav a 90° of set on its crank, that's way it has its dip roaring sound. A European V8 has a 180° of set and has a higher pitch sound and a better performers curv att higher rpm.
2 stroke fires every time at the top. 4 stroke fires every other time at the top. So a 2 stroke can fire all cillinders at the top at the same time as 1 big cillinder on a 4 stroke you have to balance on which side you fire. Ingame you don't feel vibrations but in the real world you do!
So if im not mistaken engines work as such: - Power depends on cylinder count and size. - volumetric efficiëncy also influences it maybe? - firing order and crank angles only impact sound. As fo the sound (and this is pure speculation), a cylinder "fires" whenever it is next in the firing order and at the top of its cycle. Thus, depending on how you set up the timing it can be a 2 or 4 stroke (or even 320 stroke). This is because you can either set the order in which the cranks reach the top ("sequential" in engine tool) and youll have it the same as in scrap mechanic. Or you can set the proper firing order for a given engine like 1-3-2 for in I3. Now the first crank fires, the second reaches the top but isnt next to fire, the third reaches the top and fires, the first is skipped, second fires, third skips, etc. Thus if the firing order is completely opposite the crank order it should make the 160 cylinder engine a 320(?) stroke.
There is no such thing as a 320 stroke engine. The stroke count is how many strokes the engine has per cycle. 4 stroke has 1.intake 2. compression 3.power 4. exhaust and only fires between compression and power strokes. A 2 stroke has 1.intake 2.power/intake and exhaust and fires every time the piston reaches the top of the stroke.
@@promod1512Right then it's a 160 stroke. If you read what I say you'll realize why I refer to it as a 320 (which I realize is wrong cuz I have no clue how strokes are counted). It has a "power" stroke (stroke where it makes sound) every time it's at the top and next in firing order. If that firing order is completely out of wack, then each cylinder is waiting for the number of cylinders you have worth of rotations before it can fire once, thus160 stroke.
@@dragonhubgaming5934 yea the 160 is the number of rotations before a cylinder fires, so I guess 320 stroke was correct (in that it has intake, compression, combustion, exhaust, 316x nothing because it's not yet the next in the firing sequence)
Just to clarify further, assume a 160 cylinder kAN made. Now given how firing order in gearblocks likely works, if we have a sequence 160-159-...-2-1, then after 160 fires it takes almost a full rotation before 159 is at the top. This only applies to the sound though, performance wise it's just count number of cylinders and be done.
I'm just a Petrol head and I'm not completely sure. But I think the Firing order is only important for the Ballance of the engine to reduce Stress on essentially every part of it.
in real life timing makes a huge difference in smooth idle and power or if it will even run at all and timing makes a difference in the sound but you shouldnt mess with timing for sound in real life
So what if you were to make an engine where the shafts are 180° offset but the firing order is 1-1-1-1 or something? Would it not work, as it would irl or would it just ignore that?
@kANGaming firing order are works only on sound for self setting for stroke sounds, and double audio pitch is for two/four-stroke engine sounds but this system maybe cool if you fargot set a firing order engine not get down HP and kW but I know realistic in games are not same, game can be similar system in real life but can't is same in real and can downgrade fps with high precision of engine physics on firing order.
7:05 depends on what you mean, a cross plane crank is effectively 90° but not really, rod journal 1 and 2 are at 90° to each other as are 3 and 4 but 2 and 3 are 180 out from each other.
you should definitely chack out "just war trains" by justjeff and Drelliot. its free and was made in response to somebody's scam of a game but demonstrates peoples love of trains. and apparently war.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Now of course the question is how do we apply timings to non symmetrical engines: 5 cylinders, 3 cylinder radials etc.
I just do 1-3-2 for 3 cylinder or 2-3-4 or something
I made an I5 and I used the timing 1-6-3-4-2
Not sure how this game works but IRL, ”wasted spark” is a very common ignition-configuration. Not sure it makes sense in the game though. For example, ignite cyl 1 and 3 at the same cycles and then 2 and 4 together.
[3 cylinder radial] 1-2-3 (120 degree)
You just use the "Engine Tool" script and use the linear preset. Works good enough. And yes, firing order and crank angles only changes noise, power only depends on the number of cylinders and other settings.
(Linear = scrap mechanic order)
The firing order in low-displacement engines does not directly influence power, but it is widely used to avoid stress on the crankshaft and the use of counterweights that influence engine efficiency.
Why not make every engine the blessed straight 5? Perfectly balanced.
Kan: Fireing order doesn't seem to matter.
Also Kan: I kinda figured out firing order
If you didnt know, you can right click on the rpm setting in the cylinder head menu and type a much higher redline, like over 8000 rpm (things tend to go crazy past 6000 rpm so be careful)
What you've made at 8:33 is a crossplane parallel twin.
And btw they don't turn into 2 strokes. By setting the firing order to 1 -> 1, both cylinders go through intake, compress, combust and exhaust at the same time, instead of switching between each other.
12:30 "Light speed is too slow, we're going to have to go straight to...
LUDICROUS SPEED"!
Symetrical timing twins are a thing, and 90° offset timings are too. Mainly on motorbikes. There's videos on it on RUclips.
270° technically, not 90°, because otherwise you'd have a horrible firing interval and an even worse sound, but yes, it doesn't have to be 180°
@@demeter1793 Yep that's what I wanted to say. Not 90°. Crank forms a 90° angle but the offset is 270° not 90°.
i agree with this. I work with jetski's mostly and all yamaha, kawasaki, polaris and seadoo twin cylinder 2 strokes have 180 degree offsets
@@Lucas-qb3bs Yep, my two stroke motorbike had a 180 degree offset. That thing was a bloody rocketship for its tiny displacement.
as has been said by many:
The firing order and crank offset are purely cosmetic. The sound of the engine is akin to a 2 stroke, but it is cosmetically a 4 stroke engine. The only things that truly affect the performance of the engine are the number of cylinders (total possible power), and the volumetric efficiency (controls torque value). Most things you've been experimenting with are purely cosmetic.
In theory, if you discard the effects on exhaust pressure built by exhaust gases, it shouldn't matter in the torque output which order the pistons fire. The pistons are all firing in the same cicle. The reason why firing order becomes important is because of shaft balance, stops vibration, resonant pressure wave generation in the intake and exhaust, which further can increase horse power.
Yeah, like a single cylinder engine works
So do 2 of them if you connect the cranks
The benefit to multi cylinders is smoothing of vibrations
If you right click the number on a setting you can change the value past what the slider allows
Really? I used cheat engine for that lmao. Right clicking is a LOT easier
Finally getting this game this weekend, hopefully will have my own videos on it. Have been looking at getting it for almost a year.
Double pitched audio changes how the engine sounds A LOT, turn it off and it sounds more 4 stroke
also sounds wayyyyy better
It's a 4 stroke, intake and exhaust on the head, 2 stroke has something more like a cap on top, intake and exhaust in the block.
You can change the crank angle by hitting “E” while looking at the crank in its menu easier then having to reconnect everything
Glad you found the graph script mod I was talking about under previous videos.. Guess you never saw them
8:00 actually I think there were British twins that were like that, the pistons moved together and fired at a 360° interval, there were even some where they fired at the same time at 720° intervals.
Awesome video dude!!
The 2 cylinder 4 stroke parallel piston configuration actually exists , i have a bike with it, it makes a particular sound. And the last configuration its called crossplane (4 cylinder with the crankshaft rotated every 90 degrees) and exists on the yamaha r1 since 2010
Bro found the sm toilet seat equivalent for intros in gearblocks lmao
there are great advantages to both, but the 180 degree offset 2 cylinder is better for torque applications because there is combustion more often while the engine with no offset is just a big 1 cylinder
I’ve been watching and trying to get my game to run stable
Sorry if my last comments sounded harsh. I hope you can take constructive criticism from time to time.
Speaking of crank designs, that monster engine of yours would have so much vibration.
Also the firing order on your 4 cylinder is actually 1,3,4,2
7:03 some engines do that in real life. Its called a crossplane crankshaft
You dont 100% need a starter to start the engine when its small. you can just use the grabber tool
Both pistons firing at the same time is used in a lot of bikes actually parallel cylinders I believe it’s called
Kan, if you have firing order then it's a 4 stroke. Two stroke fires on auto-ignition everytime the cylinder reaches top dead centre.
It's quite simple. There's a firing order which you can set. Why on earth would you have a firing order on a 2 stroke? That's not even possible. In that case the crank adjusts the firing order, not the head (which is the camshaft and spark plugs IRL)
Just commented this
I mean, it's to avoid premature detonation right. If you have a multi cylinder 2 stroke, you don't want to say, fire piston 1 at the top of its compression while piston 2 is at bottom dead center and has no fuel in it.
@@ElderonAnalas Firing order doesn't change that though.
@@ElderonAnalas obviously the spark plug is only going to go off when at TDC. But when that's pre-programmed (such as in this game), then there is only one firing order possible. Whereas with a 4 stroke engine, you can very often have many possibilities for firing order
Yall do realize yall can have a spark plug go off both a TDC and BDC . In a 2 stroke there's a magneto on the fly wheel that sets ignition (kinda like a distributor cap) on car.. for the video. If he wanted to check 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Kan should of did. 1 & 3 for timing. (That's normal 4 stroke engines) and 1 and 2 is 2 strokes
When are you going to put the 160 piston engine in a vehicle?
In 6 to 9 years.
He needs to make it more compact
@@robertwilliams8116 disagree. it doesn't have to be practical, it just needs to exist
@@robertwilliams8116that’s literally impossible. The complexity comes only from the number of cylinders, and reducing that removes the entire point.
Kan, I'd love to see you engineer a wishbone cantilever suspension with steering and a drive axle. I'm struggling a bit with my 8x8. I used ball joints on my steering and cv axles for my drive but there's some tension somewhere I can't figure out how to get rid of it
Ah yes, the "upside-down sky toilet" 😆
Playing this game I think it’s safe to say these engines are 4 stroke. Also another channel called brokeboybuilds made a video also showing timing doesn’t affect power
four stroke cycle in four words: suck, squeeze, bang, blow (which happens over two full revolutions, each stroke is either an upstroke or a downstroke)
they are actually 4 stroke engines that SOUND like they are 2 stroke, but you can change that in the cylinder head configuration
actually the twin engine from the Fiat Panda is in fact a 900cc synchronous 2 cylinder engine.
I drove one a copule of times and i can tell you that you can really feel the balancing issues, like from the 1000 to the 2000 rpm feeling like driving an old tractor and over that range it finally becomes smooth 7:59
Also there is the fiat 126p but that migth be the panda but in another name
@@Retrogen_boi thats another older one that had a 2 cylinder but i honestly dont know if it is synchronous.
The 126p prosuction ended in 1991 but the Panda twin air its still in production since the early 2010’s
18:32 kAN has invented the Big-bang firing order lol.
8:00 the only two I2 engines I've had any experiance with have had the 180 crankshaft setup. my Ranger and my dad's old John Deere Model B. they sound like like your first test engine.
it gets a bit drony after a while...
It looks like the RPM value on the graph gets too high wrt the other too values, making it hard to see the patterns there. It might be worth repeating this without RPM on the graph.
U can tell its a 4 stroke by the way the exhaust looks. 2 stroke has a resonator to provide back pressure while the piston is moving infront of the exhaust port and the chamber has relative negative presure; to pull in fresh air and fuel better
No? Its not necessary
also u can tell form the otuside if its 2 stroke or 4 stroke in a 2 stroke the top part dosnt exist the fuel comes in trought ports that the psiton closes and nto the valves it would eb impossble for this to be a 2 stroke
A American V8 engen hav a 90° of set on its crank, that's way it has its dip roaring sound. A European V8 has a 180° of set and has a higher pitch sound and a better performers curv att higher rpm.
Can you also do a video on stroke length because I thought it actually worked when you tried raising the piston from the crank
I wonder if you could make a valve chop sounding engine with crank offsets
There are 90 degree offset engines, they call them 270 but they are super popular in motorcycles today
You should also try extending the stroke of the pistons
2 stroke fires every time at the top.
4 stroke fires every other time at the top.
So a 2 stroke can fire all cillinders at the top at the same time as 1 big cillinder on a 4 stroke you have to balance on which side you fire. Ingame you don't feel vibrations but in the real world you do!
So if im not mistaken engines work as such:
- Power depends on cylinder count and size.
- volumetric efficiëncy also influences it maybe?
- firing order and crank angles only impact sound.
As fo the sound (and this is pure speculation), a cylinder "fires" whenever it is next in the firing order and at the top of its cycle. Thus, depending on how you set up the timing it can be a 2 or 4 stroke (or even 320 stroke). This is because you can either set the order in which the cranks reach the top ("sequential" in engine tool) and youll have it the same as in scrap mechanic. Or you can set the proper firing order for a given engine like 1-3-2 for in I3. Now the first crank fires, the second reaches the top but isnt next to fire, the third reaches the top and fires, the first is skipped, second fires, third skips, etc.
Thus if the firing order is completely opposite the crank order it should make the 160 cylinder engine a 320(?) stroke.
There is no such thing as a 320 stroke engine. The stroke count is how many strokes the engine has per cycle. 4 stroke has 1.intake 2. compression 3.power 4. exhaust and only fires between compression and power strokes. A 2 stroke has 1.intake 2.power/intake and exhaust and fires every time the piston reaches the top of the stroke.
@@promod1512Right then it's a 160 stroke. If you read what I say you'll realize why I refer to it as a 320 (which I realize is wrong cuz I have no clue how strokes are counted). It has a "power" stroke (stroke where it makes sound) every time it's at the top and next in firing order. If that firing order is completely out of wack, then each cylinder is waiting for the number of cylinders you have worth of rotations before it can fire once, thus160 stroke.
@@blueflame_sm where is the 160 number coming from? Are you talking about firing interval?
@@dragonhubgaming5934 yea the 160 is the number of rotations before a cylinder fires, so I guess 320 stroke was correct (in that it has intake, compression, combustion, exhaust, 316x nothing because it's not yet the next in the firing sequence)
Just to clarify further, assume a 160 cylinder kAN made. Now given how firing order in gearblocks likely works, if we have a sequence 160-159-...-2-1, then after 160 fires it takes almost a full rotation before 159 is at the top. This only applies to the sound though, performance wise it's just count number of cylinders and be done.
16:25 Kan discovering cross plane engines lol
I hope you could make a V10
Kan in 3 years
Today we are finally puting one of our engines into a car
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "timing" refer to when during the compression stroke ignition takes place?
8:02 the Fiat 500 has this crank
8:00 it's called a twingle. 8:30 is a 450 degree like a ducati l-twin
Is there logic parts in the game? Maybe you can set up some sort of benchmark to test your configurations
I'm just a Petrol head and I'm not completely sure.
But I think the Firing order is only important for the Ballance of the engine to reduce Stress on essentially every part of it.
with the engine firing order script tool with the mouse wheel you can scroll to infinite firing order
in real life timing makes a huge difference in smooth idle and power or if it will even run at all and timing makes a difference in the sound but you shouldnt mess with timing for sound in real life
So what if you were to make an engine where the shafts are 180° offset but the firing order is 1-1-1-1 or something? Would it not work, as it would irl or would it just ignore that?
You should try to build a Subaru boxer engine lol
You take 1 piston . Make it run . Slow it down and see if the sound of the explosion happens every second ore fourth time the piston reaches TDC
you should try making a video about engine position
Use the 160 cylinder engine as a starter for a bigger engine
Will you be making more Zeepkist videos?
For a 4 stroke in a 2 piston engine is 1 & 3. For a 2 stroke its 1 and 2. .. ... just what till kan finds out about 3 stoke and 5 stroke engines.
Pretty sure the game doesn't calculate the effect of primary and secondary balances.
9/10 it doesn't
Does the exhaust note change on the i160 if you attach a single pipe to each as one header instead of a bunch of singles
you have said "right" like a milion times in this video lol
Clifford Springs
Does "firing order" even make sense if it's not a four stroke engine?
You can’t figure out much with the output at idle, you need to look at the peak output (it’s maximum power and torque)
There are one cylinder engines. There is a tractor that uses one cylinder engine.
17:10 that is a crossplane ish engie lol
When is the next rail roads online episode?
wish you would have removed the rpm scale from the graph so we could have seen better details of the power a torque curves .
Untick RPM on the torque curve, because the rpm numbers are bigger you can't see what the power and torque is doing
The cylinders dont have ports. The cylinder head has valves. Its a 4t.
90° of certain cranks have been used for years and 90% of American muscle.
@kANGaming firing order are works only on sound for self setting for stroke sounds, and double audio pitch is for two/four-stroke engine sounds but this system maybe cool if you fargot set a firing order engine not get down HP and kW but I know realistic in games are not same, game can be similar system in real life but can't is same in real and can downgrade fps with high precision of engine physics on firing order.
8:01 Fiat 126p enters the chat
7:51 that's basically average output, if you have a method to graph it or visualize it somehow you can look at the power pulses to find out.
can you make a v8 now because youve made these 4 cyllenders but i want to see you figure out timing and stuff with a v8
I think it is time to make a car and put any engine in it
Hovering that far above the landscape makes me unreasonably uncomfortable.
Why dont you use an electric motor with auto braking for the dyno?
Suck squeeze bang blow is the 4 strokes or cycle. 2 strokes is suck bang.
bro i dont understand, i made a 12 cilynder engine an it olny makes like 1,2NM of torque what do i do
7:05 depends on what you mean, a cross plane crank is effectively 90° but not really, rod journal 1 and 2 are at 90° to each other as are 3 and 4 but 2 and 3 are 180 out from each other.
180 degree between is smoother 0 degree in between acts liek 1 big piston
It is called a 2 stroke engine
4 stronę i1
2 strokes have alot more high end than 4 strokes.... 4 strokes make more tq and accelerate faster
Why have a firing order on a 2 stroke, each cylinder will fire every rotation.
Why is The first thing I see when I click on the video is kan sitting on a floating upside down toilet?
You never turned into a 2 stroke
this is a 4 stroke, why?: Valves
day three of asking kan to make a rear engine riding lawnmower
Please attach an engine to a car already it's been weeks you've kept me waiting 😭
Kan do you hear me?
you should definitely chack out "just war trains" by justjeff and Drelliot. its free and was made in response to somebody's scam of a game but demonstrates peoples love of trains. and apparently war.
Day 1 of asking Kan to play grasslands hide & seek map :)
I made a spud powered engine in scrap mechanic if you want to check it out??
0:29 except scrap mechanic is so scuffed in so many ways.