With this game finished, that's really it for mainline for me, I've done all the rest and this was the last thing on the horizon. As always, these are just my thoughts, I'm not going for some kind of objective ranking here and I'm only including a review score because I've done it in the other ones. I ended up wanting to talk about this game more than I thought - seeing as how I received this game for free from ATLUS, I wanted to lay out all of my thoughts, good and bad, and provide an honest assessment of what this rerelease offers.
Congrats Marsh! Your work already shows how expansive and fun you can make talking for hours on end about your passions, so whatever path you decide to take in terms of content, I'm sure it'll be a real joy either way.
You missed the secret ending where you fight this weird dude with big horns at the bottom of a tower, don't know what his deal was either he kept calling for you by your legal name
@@ZeroFische i think it's a reference to the original megami tensei, where you fight minotaur at the end of the first dungeon, also known as the game marsh has a toxic relationship with, which spawns many of the videos of his channel
Oddly enough, I don't actually mind how Sahori gets treated after giving it some more thought. In CoC, she solely focuses on revenge and is willing to do anything to get it while in CoV, she lets go of that desire because she sees how much it affects Tao. Sahori's death after realizing that vengeance isn't actually what she wants is one of Tao's main motivators for wanting to create the world of peace. I really do wish it was expanded upon more, though.
Also unrelated, but I thought it was really fun how they made Demi-Fiend into an actual guest character now. He even gets demon haunt dialogue, and a pretty good amount of it too.
Its still pretty awful writing regardless this just sounds like cope to me. They had the opportunity to actually add more to her but her whole arc is still poorly written.
@@shionsonozaki5730 Ehh. She isn't actually that important of a character beyond being motivation and giving too much focus to characters who don't need it just becuase you can is actual bad writing.
@@shionsonozaki5730 The entire arc is about Tao getting to understand that reality is harsh and not some lalaland where everything is fun, Sahori is just a macguffin/plot device so that Tao's character could progress from there onwards. Elaborating on Sahori would just drag the pacing of the story even more and will ruin the entire point of that arc.
@@deadpanpancake Oh, yea! Didn't play these, because I heard you have to clear 1000 floor dungeon with randomised floors in one of them? And Classroom of Heroes 1&2 comes to PC, but I personally disliked these ones on PSP because of random stat leveling.
The only comment I'd like to make on the "boosters let you keep demons around longer" topic is that I think there's a positive now for demons with unique skills and innate abilities that normally wouldn't be able to hold up through the end game with that now you can keep using those demons through the remainder of the game. Demons like Idun and Artemis with fantastic unique skills no longer have to be stuck to the mid game. I think its a huge way to incentivize smarter resource investment. But I agree that it overall disincentivizes fusion. Just my two cents. Great video as usual Marsh!
I almost thought it wasnt gonna be that much better when i first saw the reused hydra boss and nuwa cutscene without yoko, i was thinking it wasnt gonna be that big of an improvment but after the first map it was almost night and day for me personally and having played the og release, i really loved how they expanded alittle on all the characters especially with atsuta. When he came at dazai screaming at him at the school and turned against the team during that second map things really started to kick off for me. I'm a tiny bit surprised you didnt mention the main battle theme changing after fusing with tsukiyomi, honestly its so badass when it happens cause it reflects the state of mind the MC and tsuki are in. Theyre out for blood and vengance after what had just happened with abdiel, dazai and the qadistu it was honestly a big highlight for me i wasnt really expecting a battle theme change after fusing.
I will say I like the direction that V and vengeance are taking the series thematically and artistically. It feels a lot more coherent than IV:A, and I'm glad to see the new team get comfortable with making games. However, compared to IV with people at the top of their craft, making a love letter to their whole careers, the new SMT team still feels a bit immature and inexperienced. I really think they have a lot of potential, I just hope they'll be able to realize it sooner rather than later
7:16 Here's the thing succession counts simular to charge or concentrate buffs, so if you don't use it right away, you can combine it with another omagatsuki skill
Vengeance was the SMTV the fans wanted. Even with the new storyline, they added a bunch of new demons and quality of life features. The fact it worked on PC with no patches makes it a better product than most new games.
This IS the TRUE release of SMT V. I think it's worth the money but I understand the hesitation of people not wanting to buy it again. Thanks for the vid, Marsh 😊
Yea, I just stopped buying anything from Atlus until rerelease. Will certainly not be buying Metaphor: ReFantazio until at least two years after release or upgraded version.
My main thing is, why ever buy a new Atlus game? I was literally lookin at Soul Hackers 2 dearing a summer sale cuz I kinda wanna see that game's issues for myself, but stopped myself and thought "Meh, they'll probably just release 'Soul Hackers 2: The Good Edition' later on." So they lost that sale all cuz they can't bring themselves to release a game just once. And, you know, I'm aware this isn't just an Atlus problem. Far as I know, it's kinda just common practice to do this in Japan. SquEnix does it, for example.
@@psycholuigiman They would only do itfor successful games. Soul Hackers 2 is likely not getting one. Devil Summoner has never gotten those. Only Persona and SMT.
@@backupschmliff1156 Think about what you just said. Now think about any of the games that came before Soul Hackers 2. Are there ANY games that Atlus re-released in English that were not Persona or a mainline SMT? Really think about the answer now. Heck, go back in this very video if you need to find the answer. Oh, I'll just tell you the answer. We've got both Devil Survivor games, Catherine, freaking Tokyo Mirage Sessions (a wildly unpopular game), and you know, a little game that might've flew under your radar that was called Devil Summoner Soul Hackers! Bruh, did you just like enter a coma while watching this video or something? Hell, they re-released the first three Etrian Odyssey games TWICE over the years. Holy crap you were way off the mark with that one.
Finally, the only review of Vengeance worth watching. Edit: After watching, I do want to say I hope they at least brought back SMT IV's encounter system, where enemies would try to ambush you while exploring the world. It actually felt pretty immersive and kept me on my toes all the time. Hopefully the next game brings it back, doubt it, but time will tell.
I think they just need to improve the current system. In IV encounters are annoying, especially when I just want to collect relics or do some side quests in already visited locations and don't to fight anyone. I hope they will update the current system of demons' behavior to be more aggressive, but only when demons are around your level.
@@VonFirflirch That is a good point, it nailed that alone with no one to back you up feel really well. Somehow I doubt we're getting random encounters back though, which is a bummer.
There are encounters like you describe, Macabres and Peilledh both ambush you and there are probably others I'm forgetting. That said, you're right that enemies could stand to be a bit more varied in how they act.
What I liked about SMT IV was that you couldn't just stand around for very long without getting jumped by something. You actually had to be fully alert whenever you were exploring. In SMT V the on field enemies are way too static to ever be threatening unless you deliberately cross paths with them. Doesn't help that you can out run everything either.
I never found the stat boosts that encourageing to keep my curent demons hell I fuse more in 5 than any other SMT just because they make it so ridiculously easy to fill out most of the compendium in just 2 playthroughs Also all the upgrades are mainly for the new Godborn mode like this game in general feels like it was built around the insanity that is godborn. Like being able to make any demon viable isnt for first playthrough its for when your on like your 6th NG+ completed all the routes and entered godborn-hard mode were everything is level 150 and can murder you instantly so you need to spend alot of time figuring out what exlusive skills are ideal for your strategies and use essence Fusion and stat boosting items which you can buy in godborn to devise the ideal strategies to survive it's just a shame they lock all that behind a minimum of two playthroughs
@@demi-fiendoftime3825 nope you just need a clear save idk if there was an update that changed it or not but i only did CoV and i got the satan boss and godborn after beating lucifer again
Others have mentioned it, but treating the big areas like massive dungeons with checkpoints instead of "open world" vastly lines your expectations correctly. The magatsu rails enable you to obtain shortcuts, not unlike in Strange Journey, each milestone in the area is rewarded by either a magatsu rail or a new Leyline, allowing you to slowly expand your area of influence and return less times to heal. Early to mid game and even somewhat lategameish, unless you spend 3 hours farming mitamas and relics, money for fusing extensively becomes a premium, so with the inclusion of saving anywhere, I was able to take even more risks and use the magatsuhi in the field to heal and be more aggressive in expanding my area or influence before returning to the leyline to heal, stronger than before, and with shortcuts unlocked. Lack of gimmicks like holes or hurt floors aside, look at the map and the magatsu rails, and you'll see what I mean. SmtV V stopped trying to become an open world game and stuck with being a dungeon crawler, pushing the game from a 7 to me to a 9 to even a 10 depending on the mood. (Not to dismiss other criticisms, but I wanted to zone in on this one.)
Once I treated each open area like a giant dungeon the game made a lot more sense to me. All of the guts of a dungeon is in these areas. One way doors/rooms, pitfalls, teleports, multilevel mazes, etc.
I very much disagree. Besides the fact they're clearily open and design-wise feel very different than an usual dungeon, they feel nothing like dungeons because there's no sense of threat, which was the core thing that makes gimmicks interesting to tackle.
@@Zero-di9mz Nah. Shinjuku for example has a lot of teleporters, multilevel areas with dropdowns [which is like pitfall dungeons in other games], it has a bit of a dark room area, dropping off from one level down to another that only goes one way is essentially a one way door, there are small areas with buildings and alleyways that are functionally the same as mazes in other SMT games. All the parts of SMT dungeons exist in the overworld albeit in a different form. It does need to be honed and perfected and it can always get better. Also areas you can slide down and only slide in one direction is similar to the one way directional corridors in SJ. All the pieces of their previous dungeon designs all exist in the four main areas here. People just get hung up on them being "open world" or an "overworld". They are still dungeons. Just giant ones.
@@chaoschris8194 Have nothing in common with dungeons in SMT not 1 not 2 not 3 and def not 4/A i get what you mean but a dungeon is inside a enclosed area not in a open area were you can teleport freely not dungeons let you teleport on the fly, so even the real dungeons are not really dungeons... a dungeon is someplace that you enter and you feel traped like a jail thats why neither of those dungeons felt like actual dungeons fast travel kill em.
Its interesting hearing your thoughts on things. In regards to the power ups and so on, especially the Nahobino getting a gradually widening massive stat advantage- I played on Hard, I didnt look at normal, so I'm going to put that as a disclaimer- I think the Nahobino having a steadily widening inherent stat advantage works with the narrative about them being a true god/completed being. And on Hard Mode, the game was still pretty challening despite these tools- I did keep fusing, pretty consistently, because while a generally competent raw stat team could have maybe worked, most major fights benefited massively from bringing a more specialized team. I actually found the free NPC partners interesting; early game their definitely great, but I found myself steadily using them less. I think someone not fusing due to using them would make it a while, but hit walls.
SMT V: Vengeance Apocalypse Reload Maniax + Portable The Overclock Breaker Deluxe Eternal Golden FES Royal Encore Full Body Ultra Suplex Hold HD 2 Premium Edition (Expansion Pass and Day 1 DLC included) coming for the Nintendo Wii U this Fall!
It kinda nags at me when someone says 3D MegaTen just doesn't have the complex trap-filled mazes of FP MegaTen when Nocturne exists. That game was full on "Oops! All trap corridors!"
I loved it either way. Dungeons where, when you get lost frequently enough, the ridiculous mazes start to feel like your backyard. Strange Journey did it too. First person or third, the dungeons rocked in Nocturne.
This certainly feels like the most honest review of this game. I didn't even know there were only two endings in the new story. It's like a lot of SMT reviewers sorta expect that we've all been obsessively checking and keeping up with all the latest news on the game before it comes out. Basically, it's obvious nobody buttered up your ass with a review copy, and I think that's a good thing.
1:35 It was the final product, it has issues but it was good. I notice you based on your expectations rather than for what it is the passing of the story was weird, like nocturne, but the story itself was good, the point of the whole game is about godhood and the first that did ask the player to be inmerse in theology to get some pieces, that was their mistake, also character wise tao and the aligment heroes did need more time. Overall, people judge too hard V, vengeance is a fix, because is an update or even remastered to a certain extend but even nocturne got that (original 3 was different in its first release, by a lot of stuff, we didn't live that because we receive the updated version). That said VV did bring a lot of stuff that is definitely more than just good.
Any day that Marsh uploads is a good day, thanks for the video and all the work! I'd personally be interested in mainline videos and your opinions on Nocturne and SMT4, but I know you prefer to catalogue lesser known games. Anything you choose to make will be entrancing I'm sure :)
Putting this on in the background on mute for the algorithm and returning once I finish the game. I'm so close and then realized I hadn't done a lot of the side quests! Love your videos, explanations and perspective on the games. Your Toho Academia video got me into your channel and also helped me through that game with the puzzles.
I’d say the separations between CoC and CoV are kinda like Devil Survivor 2 record breaker where you can choose to play the original or the remake story and they’re separate but you can at least carry across save data
I think the (nearly entirely) unique passive skills each demon gets in this game push fusion towards the player in more of a "carrot" way than the traditional "stick" roadblocks that came from slow demon levelling or the necessity of boss-by-boss team building. Reading the descriptions for the elemental gestalt passives and Setanta/Cu Chulainn's passives had me enamoured with building whole teams in a way full of the same wonder as when I first started playing SMT games. Not to say your criticism of fusion is unwarranted, of course.
Atlus rereleasing stuff with updated versions is second only to Capcom doing it. Though at least to my understanding Atlus never went “this is the director’s cut of Resident Evil with the uncensored opening movie” and just forgot to switch the opening… and then *forgot a second time* with the Dual Shock version.
I dunno In strange Journey i had the same demons for almost 2/3s of the entire game cause sources made demons longevity and power crazy high and no one complained there
@@MarshSMT Demon sources are super fucked up in that game. SJ can be pretty challenging but once you realize that sources allow you to get OP skills easily and early that challenge starts to go away
I only got a fixed team in sj when i got to mem aleph Honestly essenses are broken and all but i freakin hate that system and the entire fusion system of that game It felt like the game that rewarded fusion the least and sometimes j was asking why i dont recruit a cherub from the streets and give him some good skills via essense isntead of spending 30 hours fusing your demons only for them to lose all their good skills in the process Thats the one thing they should have changed in redux
The superboss satan revealing that there is a multiverse of worlds all with the same mandala system was pretty cool. Idk why you didnt mention this as I consider it part of the story.
I wasn't really expecting a full fix of the story, I was mostly just expecting it to be better. As for gameplay, obviously better than before. I actually really liked Yoko and how much her interactions with Tao added to the context of the game, but I did still think Dazai, Yuzuru and Sahori's stories were a bit silly, but I do respect the decisions. Overall I feel I mostly got what I wanted from the game as a rerelease, though DLC issues do piss me off. The fact that Mitama still cost money is wild, man.
I think I agree with the thoughts about the environments. The sand wasn't fun to explore, and the whole world being deserted while being told that massive wars are raging gave me a weird feeling of isolation or separation from the plot, like Neo stuck in that looping subway station.
9:00 IMO, this doesnt really disincentivise fusing stronger demons because at some point, youre gonna need to fuse those stronger demons to get their essences for better skills.
My first SMT game was SMTV on Hard mode. Got obsessed with the game and ended up doing True Neutral on that playthrough, and the thing that carried me through Shiva was Idun and her unique skill. She's technically a midgame demon, but I kept re-fusing her with stronger and stronger input demons until her stats became higher and higher and she was eventually capable in the endgame. And while I'm sure it's common baby knowledge for experienced SMT fans, I felt like a GENIUS for figuring out how to abuse the fusion system to take a midgame demon and make her endgame viable on my own. That wouldn't have been nearly as memorable to me if the game just kept boosting her stats constantly "for free" through dialogue
I think they seperated the Canon of Creation and the Canon of Vengeance from each other to avoid people complaining about the new content interfering with the old one. Looking back at games like P4 Golden or SJ Redux you will find alot of people complaining about the new content and new character. So by seperating the new story content from the old one, people who just wanna play Vanilla SMTV without said new content can do it. Some other things I liked you didnt mention: - I really liked that you unlock Hayataro much earlier in COV as opposes to COC. In COC you either got him automaticially after choosing the Myriad Gods Route ( at Level 40 in an Level 80 Area ) or by fusing him in NG+. In COV you can fuse him by the time you reach Shinjuku where he is much more useful and was my MVP for most of the Area. - I liked the Ability to redistribute my Statpoints via these special Items. They avoid being broken by being rather rare and only letting redistribute self assigned Statpoints and not the random ones from Level Ups. The last one contains Spoilers for an optional quest chain in the End Game that got added to Vengeance, dont read if you dont wanna get spiled and discover it yourself - I really liked these optional Cutscenes you can find. For example after encountering Yakumo in Taito ( COV only ), you unlock Dialouge from one of the Researchers at Bethel who mentioned seeing him near the School. You will actually find him when you enter the school and after that you can find him at the Temple. Both encounters trigger cutscenes where you learn a bit more about Yakumo and lets you unlock Nuwa early.
Given the dev's fixation on bulls and snakes, and how Creation is the "bull" route that has you fight a hydra, I was hoping Vengeance would swap it, and have old buddy Minotaur at Tokyo tower. Missed opportunity I think, and it's also just strange that, afaik, he of all demons hasn't appeared in 3d yet.
The Vengeance re-release was my first exposure to Megaten. I got really into it. The gameplay was some of the most fun I've ever had in any videogame, the soundtrack was incredible, and I had an amazing time. It was weird though. The more I played and thought about that game the less satisfied I was. I think all the best aspects of SMTV are really fleeting, and are really only felt while playing it. The parts of it that are grating really add up, too. Like I found the way people/demons talked in V to be weirdly childish? It's a quality that's hard to define, but a lot of what they say seems to character assassinate without actually building any new mystique or identity for them. I think V's speaking voice really undermines itself, and as you move away from it's darker and more personal first act to focus on supernatural adventures and helping demons with quirky sidequests, it really starts to feel like a story that didn't need to be set in the apocalypse at all. All of that sounds really harsh, but I love the hell out of V. It just kinda felt like something was missing. I went back and played Nocturne. Even without a history in Megaten I feel like SMTV hyped me up for an experience I didn't get, so playing 3 was really cathartic. Like it did all the stuff I thought that V was gunna do, at the cost of being a little CBT about it. It's my new favourite game of all time. I'm hyped to check out Strange Journey and 4 next, and i've binged Marsh stuff in the meantime. I'm hoping that if I watch enough of his videos i'll be ready for this really hard fight I heard about in SMT4.
Having played through VV and Nocturne already ought to be enough to prepare you for "that" fight in IV. It's basically just a difficulty-spike tutorial boss with some BS rng. Knowing the basics of press turn and using buffs/debuffs like you're probably trained to do already should suffice... ....and maybe a reset if the funny man shows you his neat agi skills...
I loooved this game, I think it's just such a huge improvement over the original. Something that really sticks out to me is how incredible the visuals are in a number of sequences. The effects that happen during the Qadistu sacrifice, for example, are just so sick and I don't really recall the original having visuals like that where the colour of the whole screen is manipulated.
I don’t know if this also happens in the Canon of Creation, but if you go back to the school dorms rooftop every now and then, you can talk to the npc who was with Dazai in the tunnel at the beggining of the game and you can gain a bit more information about Dazai backstory and how he got more confident after gaining power from Mastema.
Hey Marsh, great video. I used to watch you like 3 years ago when i was big into Megaten. Now that im easing back into the series again I started rewatching your old videos and I must say, your voice changed quite a lot lol.
I loved what they did with the bosses of the final area but we definitely needed more. Odin and Zeus have the same strengths and weaknesses so it only makes sense to just throw em in the same battle. Especially because they were easy individually.
DANG IT! The ONE thing I wanted from this remake was the opportunity for Sahori to take Tao's place as my companion in her own disco space suite (you know it would have been red!) depending on the Route.
Great video marsh i agree 100 percent on exploration. What really pissed me off is i wanted to play casually with the gf so we played on easy and it was fine for awhile...but at a certian point in the vengeance story we got our asses kicked and had to downgrade to the lowest of all difficulties just to see the rest of the story man it was frustrating to have to do but overall its worth it once the game is on sale for anyone interested in the series for sure but not at full price
I think why they kept lucifer at the end of the vengeance route is because, I noticed that the devs wanted to ensure you were able to see all the demons you could normally see/fight in the canon of creation, whether it be moving side quests around, or even including bosses you didn’t get to fight in the battle trainer so that you can unlock them as a special fusion (surt, ishtar, etc), so they felt like if lucifer wasn’t able to be fought at the end of vengeance, it wouldn’t be fair for the vengeance path choosers, which makes me feel like the routes are more similar than different
I love this game, it helped to cheer me up in one of my lowest points in my life mentally (which I’m still in currently). But it really has its issues like, Lucifer being the final boss, not having more than one new map, a fair amount of missed opportunities to expand the story and lore more, and it’s weirdly strange obsession with trying to “connect” this game with nocturne (which falls flat most of the time) just to name a few. This game is a lot of fun and helped me get my mind off stuff and relax in what felt like ages, I love the cast in this game and honestly didn’t expect some of the twists in this new story. Overall a much better game than base 5 solid 9/10 for me personally. If I have any true complaints it’s the fact that demiurge should’ve been in the game at least as the new super boss instead of Satan or at most should’ve replaced ol’ Louis as the final boss trying to take/taking back the throne from him.
Was a little surprised you didn't mention the dlc for the original game was bundled in (aside from the mitama). That doesn't excuse the new dlc, but I thought it was worth noting. I also wasn't really feeling the need to fuse demons as often, I actually had hundreds of thousands of macca lying around cause I didn't go to the world of shadows as often. I understand making it easier to bring them up to par with your own level, though, with the new innate skills being a thing. Makes it easier to craft the specific team you want. I still went on a fusing spree at the endgame for those better resistances and skills, but I can definitely see people ignoring that. Great video as always.
"Balls out" (shows Cerberus' behind). As for the ease of demons sticking around, maybe the team wants to make a more traditional team based rpg and it's starting to come through in these updates.
Hey man appreciate how good all ur MT coverage has been, personally I absolutely really appreciated was having Yoko and Tao around most the game as it made the world feel way more alive and that you were actually making a difference. Yoko and the Prime Minister are easily the two best characters in the game and either of them could make my top 10 Megaten characters but I'm still tilted we were so close to Sahori being relevant at least her story was better I guess. Main thing I can give Vengeance is that it made me feel something which the Vanilla game failed at, I actually cared about character fates, sympathised with certain sentiments and even wanted to get involved which was refreshing vs vanilla where I played the game to just play more game. I agree with most the takes u laid out here except for a few tbh - I personally love the demon raising stuff and think good direction to head in however they need to strike a balance of fusion needing to be used to a extent or heavily encouraged, imo Vengeance esp on hard mode hits that balance mostly right, it allows players to have great fonder memories with their demons and create own experiences which is more memorable than sweatshop fusing upwards cause you finally got Agilao - Shakan was better than demon king castle but mainly due to when it was placed story wise: stakes raised, no aogami and ur two emotional support women are gone so to me it felt great just sole mindset of really wanting to just kill everyone get the throne in retaliation. -I do agree old areas are a bit bland and full disclosure I am a Taito simp just due to it being quite different in design philosophy with high level demons everywhere and getting keys from a battlefield. But I think alot of the areas are better and feel more alive due to the guest character dialogue you get now, I actually enjoyed exploring so could Yoko and Tao comment on the world or the quest just did it helps it feel like more than just tokyo, red tokyo, grey annoying tokyo etc. Sorry for lengthy comment I just know you like to read these sorts of things rather than snappy tweets crying about random encounters or surface level complaints, happy ur still getting review copies man cause u do great content for community
Bro, I was just thanking you last night as I struggled to remember the name of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Thanks Marsh. You do more good every day by accident than most people do when they try. Keep being a chill dude. 😎
What really stood out to me was when I had 99 grimoires in my inventory and couldn't pick up any more. They definitely overturned some aspects of demon upgrade materials. And I wasn't even using the mitama dlc
I feel there was some stuff missing. The godborn looks sick (if I can beat a certain boss), plus the anime-style scene were you get back your godly dragonslayer? Chef's kiss
40:19 I mean, I hope they include all but... this was an issue since 4 and 4F/A which I think is WAY worse, because dagda and konohasakuya quest at least aren't tied to the main story...
I already put like as I know what to expect from your videos 😊, unfortunately will have to watch later as I’m currently playing the game and want to avoid vengeance spoilers, I’ll get back to it soon hopefully !
13:20 I never noticed the fusion issue, for me negotiation was always just a dice roll that gave you mediocre version of the same demon you could get for a bit more macca.
Just bought this myself. It's so nice to be able to play this on ps5 now and have actual draw distance. The dithering I could get past on the switch, but the 12 fps was hard to swallow
I think the gameplay is an overall definite improvement, but I wish there was a little bit more outside the combat, and the Shinjuku area was a great addition. For the story I feel things were great for the first 2/3rds of the story of Vengeance. The character interaction was a necessity, it elevated so much, but right when Tiamat appeared is when I felt a downward slope. The Qadistu were great villains, and maybe they couldn't do much more with them, but Yoko fell into the background till the end (for the Law Route) and wasn't a prominent replacement villain. I also feel many characters were done poorly to downright dirty for the last 3rd of the game: Abdiel was basically the only character that was built up at all in original 5 besides Dazai, she got nothing in Vengeance and even changed off camera. I deeply miss her scene where she was convinced by Lucifer to change (also gave more screen time to Lucifer who desperately needs some). Dazai felt like he missed the whole act 2 of his 3 part story. Same with Miyazu, who felt like she not only missed out on half the plot but had a heel turn that was not hinted at. I appreciated both Miyazu and Dazai more in the original story; especially Miyazu, her contentious relationship with Khonsu was beautiful. One of the only stand out parts of that game. Everyone else, except Sahori, I appreciate what they did with; Tao, Yuzuru and Tsukuyomi the most. My rating for the mainline games (mostly based on story): 1) SMT:SJ 2) SMT:3 3) SMT:2 4) SMT:1 5) SMT:5 Vengeance 6) SMT:4 7) SMT:5 8) SMT:4 Apocalypse I have yet to play Devil Survivor, it's next on the chopping block.
I really loved SMTVV, so much that it's the first SMT game I completed 100% and got every achievement on Steam in. I agree with everything said in this video. Honestly my own biggest complaint with the game is that the demon selection is still a bit too low for my liking; they added, like, 40 or something new guys on top of the original's 230, but most of them were reused from Soul Hackers 2, and while the brand new demons made for this game like Anansi, Nyami Nyami and Konohana-Sakuya as well as the dudes they brought back like Mastema I adore, I personally still feel like they could've added so much more. I am obsessed with this franchise's depictions of mythological beings, and even though it's just a very minor thing I still would've liked it if they did much more. Also using that same camera mod you mentioned, I found out my beautiful man Mastema doesn't have eyebrows textured; overall amazing video game. Sorry for yapping; this is a really good and detailed video. You always bring out the quality stuff and I adore all your work dude. As much as the funny rerelease makes me hopeful for the future of the series, I'm also always excited for more of your content, because you inspire me to experience more of this series for myself. So thank you for all you do for this community, man. Please keep doing your greatest. :)
I agree with all your points but the amount of content they released plus the best soundtrack atlus ever delivered (i mean it) makes this my favourite SMT.
After playing Vengeance, I wish that customizing your favorite demons would go back to the amount of effort that was needed in prior entries, with stuff like Mitama fusion investments, going backwards with elemental fusions, or fusing a high level demon with a low level one to pass their higher tier skills. I'm just as guilty as everyone else who roided up their favorite demon into the endgame for Vengeance but it really made me miss fusion
I will say outside of superbosses Cu Chulainn going all in on Gae Bolg made all the bosses trivial especially with a Scathach in the back for the magatshuhi skill
tfw you can pair Omnipotent Succession WITH Omagatoki Crit 🗿 OmSu is treated as a Charge effect. As long as you don't attack you can preserve it between turns. Build up your Magatsuhi Gauge again (Evergreen Dance is kinda cracked) and pop OmCr for Quad Attack WITH Crits. Or for something even more heinous: Omagatoki Charge instead of Crit. OmCh preservers Charge effects until the next turn which OmSu counts. You can get up to 16 MC attacks off if you play it right. I love the whacky nonsense you can get away with to break the game over your knee 😂
Great video! I left an absolute novel of a comment on your SMTII video so I hope you don't mind if I leave one here too. Even if you fall asleep reading it, I want to get my thoughts out here. Again, I just want to say thank you so much for all the content you make on your channel. It's easily one of my favorite channels. Out of curiosity, were you playing on Normal? I felt a lot different about fusion, feeling in danger, and the free items. I was playing on Hard myself. Although for me, I often forgot about the Gospels and Grimoires until random points, mostly late in the game. In fact the only place I really used Gospels and Grimoires was near the end to get my perfect squad for Lucifer (who I had trouble with this time for some reason). I had the same thing happen to me with the original and both SMTIV and IV:A (which both of those games also gave you a lot of those kinds of items). It might just be my ADHD, but I always felt like I had to constantly be fusing and felt like I was "stuck" if I couldn't fuse something significantly better than what I had (even though what I had was really good). That said, I agree I don't really care for the whole idea of moving away from fusion, but I also think Vengeance is far from the first game to do this. Hell even Nocturne does it by incentivizing you keeping your first Pixie (or whatever demon you fuse her into). I remember back when the original Persona 5 came out, I remember someone posting on a forum that they "skipped the fusion" when they beat the game. I asked what that even meant: They used DLC Personas. I know you didn't care for the dungeons (including Shakan), but to me it always felt like the Da'ats were a dungeon. We definitely have differing opinions on the Da'ats themselves, I personally liked them, but I also get why you didn't (outside of Shinjuku). I also enjoyed Demon King's Castle and Shakan myself though, and while they definitely are not the high point of dungeons in the franchise, they're solid. I didn't particularly care for Temple of Eternity though, I liked the Chi-You gimmick, but I just felt the time stopping gimmick just seemed underutilized and was over before it really picked up. Also that part in the original game in the Demon King's Castle, pre-patch, with all the jumping and the fans did nothing wrong. I never understood the need to patch that. However that section in Shinjuku that's dark and Agrat illusions chase you felt like a very MegaTen dungeon-ass dungeon. Like I was seriously shocked they did that when I got to that part, and was really impressed. There was tension. Sure, you could fight the Agrat illusions, but it took a lot of resources and was often resulting in a trip back to the Leyline, because otherwise you feel like you could get clapped by another illusion or even just a regular encounter after that. I agree that the concept of the story wasn't bad in the original, and also fall under the "It just barely existed" camp. I haven't done any count, but I swear Miyazu had like ten times the amount of voiced dialogue she had in the original, and she's STILL technically a sidequest here, but a very prominent one that involves the whole human gang. Due to Yuzuru's fate, we get more of a sense of what's going to happen to her now. I really really liked Yuzuru being so much more than just Koshimizu's yes man. For Dazai, I'm one of the few defenders on his little "no longer a sucka, now a super saiyan" moment in the original, as well as here in Vengeance. To me it felt totally on brand for the dude, who's never been good at anything and talks about making his sweet Jake Paul-ass RUclips career but never gets anywhere. Getting to talk to all the humans in the demon haunts gives you so much more insight into what kind of people they actually are. Dazai feels like he's got all the power and so he watched DBZ a few times too many and throws off the hat and goes Super Saiyan. This was true in the original, and moreso here. I particularly liked that we got moments of these people actually being friends before all this happened. The cutscene with the boys in the dorm was great, because in the original it seemed like these people barely knew each other before the events of the game. Just simply hearing more from Tao especially, as well as Yoko really helps build the characters and story. Those aren't huge bombastic reveals, but it turns out hearing from the central human characters really helps develop the story. I definitely rate the story in Canon of Vengeance as "solid", but still not the narrative juggernauts of the franchise. I consider those to be SMTII, Persona 2, Digital Devil Saga, and Strange Journey. Also random thing, which version of Lucifer were you fighting? I saw you were level 74 (presumably with that miracle that removes the demon level restriction) fighting against him, and I could see this being feasible if it's the "Powerful being" version, but not the "Extremely Powerful Being" version. I struggled on Lucifer so much myself and started trying when I was in the 80s (but had some high level guys in the 90s, like Shiva). I leveled myself to 98 and STILL struggled. I ended up beating it by just using Shield of God every time he was about to throw the Morning Star in the last phase. This was on the "Extremely Powerful being" version. However one thing I managed to accomplish, was being Shiva at level 80! That felt so good, especially knowing how in the original I would have gotten clapped in 1-2 turns if I attempted that. I am actually planning on playing the original Switch version again and seeing if I can even get close at 80. I always feel like the music in this game is literally this meme: i.imgflip.com/8yyuzr.jpg Kozuka does not miss, I will never understand how this man is even human. So many times in Vengeance he managed to wow me with the new tracks. I bought the Vengeance soundtrack on Amazon and saw it had 80+ tracks, and then I looked through the titles: Not a SINGLE ONE was from the original SMTV. Kozuka is a god and is honestly the best composer the franchise has ever had. It's a minor dumb gripe, but I really wish there was a way to keep the whip instead of the sword after you turn back into blue hair Nahobino. I just want the long blue hair and a whip in the same thing. I think the Demon Haunts are overall a rather understated feature, not necessarily for the stat boosts and free items, but just for the flavor text. It's wild how much world building that does. Every single demon has multiple unique lines to say pertaining to their lore. There's almost 300 in the game. If you do the math, that's an INSANE amount of writing for a feature that some of the player base may not even engage with much. I started an NG+ run on Creation, starting Nahobino's level over at 1, but grabbing the Miracle that removes the demon limit. I had level 28 Nezha Taizi before I beat Hyrda, and after beating Hydra, I talked to him in the Demon Haunt and he actually talked about how we finally whooped Hydra's ass! This is a demon that in a first playthrough, no one is going to have by the time they get to Hydra unless they just used the Mitama EXP DLC to grind to hell and back, and they actually wrote dialogue for having him that early in the game. The world building in the demon haunts in general really just makes me think back to how good the world building in SMTIV was, with things like normal people sometimes mentioning the Reds well before they're even pitched to you in the main story. Anyway I'm sure this comment has gone on way too long, but I was always interested in your opinion on this game. I finished Law Vengeance the other day, and I'm doing at least one Creation run, as well as Chaos Vengeance, but so far I personally put the game in an A-Tier, but that may change with time. Thanks for everything you do, and keep it up! I hope you're doing well in real life too.
I appreciate it, I love these big comments so no worries haha. Much of my gameplay was on normal to establish a baseline of what the difficulty was like. Hard mode definitely improves things a bit, I probably could have dived further into that and the idea that some of the older games like Nocturne didn't have difficulty settings so everyone got the same experience. The Demon King Castle patch was pretty funny, I remember them releasing that and wondering if anyone had actually complained about it. For Lucifer, the footage I used was just against the normal one, but I have done the harder one before. In terms of actual gameplay it's solid, I'm not huge on his dialogue but the fight itself is fun. Shield of God definitely feels like it was designed for the last few bosses. The haunts are a great feature overall, yeah the stats weren't my favorite but dialogue was excellent. I think if they had put them in Soul Hackers 2 it might have really saved that game for me. Glad you liked Vengeance, overall I had fun too and I really have no idea what to expect with the next SMT which is exciting
Dazais character showing how quickly he goes mad with power is even funnier if you read Fallen Abdiels later dialogue. She’s not only just as power mad regardless of route as Dazai, she makes clear that Law in the world of SMTV advocates for Social Darwinism. God is the mist powerful and thus it’s only natural he stands at the top! Rivals Kresnik was him going on a rant about how Inequality is not only GOOD, but REQURIED for Law to exist and bring “prosperity”. I do think people seem to really miss the fact that the story is unsubtle that the Horned God is supported and propped up by Mandala, and that itself becomes the foundation of the conflict. It’s why sidequests like with Mastema make it even more clear why rejecting Mandala is required to reject the Horned God and the Law he represents.
Playing on the switch, one of the first things I wanted to see was when you press start and the menu came up, the transition screen was so choppy and weird on the original. I'm very satisfied to see that it's crisp and fast now
Great vid Marsh. I agree with almost everything except for the leveling up mechanic. I honestly believe it's necessary for both player and their party. Also I'm glad you enjoyed Vengeance more than the original. Here's hoping 6 will be even better.
When I dropped into the same final area again, it felt really bad and I didn't know how much the level scaling was fixed so I was doing the big old grind to 70~ again and it took it out of me. It's what made me drop the original release, but at least this time I was engaged by the story. The ending being dependent on prior choices feels like a much better decision than just lol pick your explosion colour like ME3.
I think the grimoire system is totally valid, and allows for newer players who like stuff like pokemon to have fun with the demons they really like and customize them as much as they want, and older players to simply ignore like I did. I actually think exploration is also pretty enjoyable, though i wish there was more coherency to each of the locations aside from feeling like a really big level, if they were all interconnected in some way, like having mini transitional areas between each of them that lead into the other, that would do a lot for enjoyment, but thats a big ask i suppose. Definitely think taking an approach like Nocturne or SMT IV in terms of dungeons with maybe some added jumping or walking speed and some form of world map or overworld, could definitely make for some peak exploration for a modern SMT game. As usual though the video was a fun watch, and I can't wait to see more content from you.
I liked Grimoires personally too. Didn't find a need for them for most of the game. Engaging with the fusion system and rotating my demons in and out generally yielded better results than investing in diminishing returns. I DID however use them end game. Being a flat level up instead of setting exp to 1 like in Vanilla is a huge convenience for essence farming and team building. Also helps that Gospels, the MC Grimoire (and the demon statues by extension), are sparse and Grims can't exceed MC level.
With how higher level demons would have been a pain to get to max level, the Grimores and Gospels saved time. Especially when you can buy Grimores at the end. Wonderful rare Candies.
@@pokehybridtrainer Speaking of rare candies. I'm...Kinda okay with SMT taking heavier cues from Pokemon? Grimoires being rare candies, innate skills being poke abilities, demon haunts being pastures/campgrounds, demons having unique skill affinities, more unique demon skills, I think it does a lot to help SMT really carve out its own modern identity apart from Persona. Lean into the demons and how they relate to and effect human people. I think the next logical step forward is your party following you while exploring like how some pokemon games let you set follower pokemon. Could even take that a step farther and let your active party be your navigators.
I agree it's weird that they add so much to make fusion unnecessary. One of the big things that separates SMT from other monster collectors like Pokemon is that you don't keep your guys with you the whole game, you're constantly swapping demons in and out. They're less like your best pals and more like your begrudging coworkers (although admittedly, it is cool how Devil Summoner games do more to build the relationship between you and them).
With the bit at the end re: first and third person design, I'm realizing that the only first-person Megaten game I've actually run through to completion was Strange Journey. I've been interested in the three SMTs that came out for the Super Famicom and also Kyuuyaku. The oldest title I've actually gone through was actually Nocturne. There's a lot to this whole thing I haven't seen.
With this game finished, that's really it for mainline for me, I've done all the rest and this was the last thing on the horizon. As always, these are just my thoughts, I'm not going for some kind of objective ranking here and I'm only including a review score because I've done it in the other ones. I ended up wanting to talk about this game more than I thought - seeing as how I received this game for free from ATLUS, I wanted to lay out all of my thoughts, good and bad, and provide an honest assessment of what this rerelease offers.
When are you going to make a video on Meet And Fuck Kingdom
Would you ever do nocturne?
Congrats Marsh! Your work already shows how expansive and fun you can make talking for hours on end about your passions, so whatever path you decide to take in terms of content, I'm sure it'll be a real joy either way.
What about smt 3 nocturne
I really want you to talk about 4 it's probably the strongest game in the series for me
You missed the secret ending where you fight this weird dude with big horns at the bottom of a tower, don't know what his deal was either he kept calling for you by your legal name
Bro that was uncalled for.
What?
@@ZeroFische i think it's a reference to the original megami tensei, where you fight minotaur at the end of the first dungeon, also known as the game marsh has a toxic relationship with, which spawns many of the videos of his channel
"You're in Micon City,on the 8th floor of Daedalus Tower,and your first objective is to go down and kill the Minotaur."
he also thought you had balls
I can’t wait for the prequel vid to both of the SMTV videos. Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse Defined
And then the prequel vid to the prequel vid, Shin Megami Tensei IV: Fined
@@NekkoBlueAnd then the prepreprequel, Shin Megami Tensei 3: Fiend
@@nunyabeeswax8530thats genius man.
And the prepreprequel Shin Megami Tense 2: This is Fine.
@@alexbayswood4847 And the preprepreprequel, Shin Megami Tensei 1: This.
Oddly enough, I don't actually mind how Sahori gets treated after giving it some more thought. In CoC, she solely focuses on revenge and is willing to do anything to get it while in CoV, she lets go of that desire because she sees how much it affects Tao. Sahori's death after realizing that vengeance isn't actually what she wants is one of Tao's main motivators for wanting to create the world of peace. I really do wish it was expanded upon more, though.
Also unrelated, but I thought it was really fun how they made Demi-Fiend into an actual guest character now. He even gets demon haunt dialogue, and a pretty good amount of it too.
Its still pretty awful writing regardless this just sounds like cope to me.
They had the opportunity to actually add more to her but her whole arc is still poorly written.
@@shionsonozaki5730 They couldnt deviate too much from CoC
@@shionsonozaki5730 Ehh. She isn't actually that important of a character beyond being motivation and giving too much focus to characters who don't need it just becuase you can is actual bad writing.
@@shionsonozaki5730 The entire arc is about Tao getting to understand that reality is harsh and not some lalaland where everything is fun, Sahori is just a macguffin/plot device so that Tao's character could progress from there onwards. Elaborating on Sahori would just drag the pacing of the story even more and will ruin the entire point of that arc.
"I prefer First Person Dungeon Crawlers"
Is the madman of the cusp of blessing us with Giten?
In future from Marsh: Etrian Odyssey, Mary Skelter and Dungeon Travelers series! And maybe some Experience Inc. games.
Giten Megami Tensei got fan translation patch few weeks ago. Only Devil Summoner 1995 and masterpiece Ronde are untranslated yet.
@@Dorrovian dont forget labyinth of refrain and labyrinth of galleria
@@deadpanpancake Oh, yea! Didn't play these, because I heard you have to clear 1000 floor dungeon with randomised floors in one of them?
And Classroom of Heroes 1&2 comes to PC, but I personally disliked these ones on PSP because of random stat leveling.
@@Dorrovian ive thought about doing videos for all of those except the last one kinda funny
The only comment I'd like to make on the "boosters let you keep demons around longer" topic is that I think there's a positive now for demons with unique skills and innate abilities that normally wouldn't be able to hold up through the end game with that now you can keep using those demons through the remainder of the game.
Demons like Idun and Artemis with fantastic unique skills no longer have to be stuck to the mid game.
I think its a huge way to incentivize smarter resource investment. But I agree that it overall disincentivizes fusion.
Just my two cents. Great video as usual Marsh!
Cant wait for Soul Hackers 2: Artificial
I almost thought it wasnt gonna be that much better when i first saw the reused hydra boss and nuwa cutscene without yoko, i was thinking it wasnt gonna be that big of an improvment but after the first map it was almost night and day for me personally and having played the og release, i really loved how they expanded alittle on all the characters especially with atsuta. When he came at dazai screaming at him at the school and turned against the team during that second map things really started to kick off for me.
I'm a tiny bit surprised you didnt mention the main battle theme changing after fusing with tsukiyomi, honestly its so badass when it happens cause it reflects the state of mind the MC and tsuki are in. Theyre out for blood and vengance after what had just happened with abdiel, dazai and the qadistu it was honestly a big highlight for me i wasnt really expecting a battle theme change after fusing.
I will say I like the direction that V and vengeance are taking the series thematically and artistically. It feels a lot more coherent than IV:A, and I'm glad to see the new team get comfortable with making games. However, compared to IV with people at the top of their craft, making a love letter to their whole careers, the new SMT team still feels a bit immature and inexperienced. I really think they have a lot of potential, I just hope they'll be able to realize it sooner rather than later
Man I'd love a remake of IV in the scope of SMT:V:V and P3R!
Always a reminder that SMT e-celebs are tarded and their bootlickers even more so
7:16 Here's the thing succession counts simular to charge or concentrate buffs, so if you don't use it right away, you can combine it with another omagatsuki skill
Vengeance was the SMTV the fans wanted. Even with the new storyline, they added a bunch of new demons and quality of life features. The fact it worked on PC with no patches makes it a better product than most new games.
The whole game was a patch for V AN EXPENSIVE PATCH BTW and with some DLC to put salt on the wound because fuck you and me LOL
the patch was you bought a beta version in 2021 for full price and a full price 1.0
Demon King Castle is a footnote on the same page as Domain of Sloth
To add insult to injury. the current iteration is highly sanitized.
This IS the TRUE release of SMT V. I think it's worth the money but I understand the hesitation of people not wanting to buy it again. Thanks for the vid, Marsh 😊
Shin: Shin Megami Tensei V: Vegnance
Yea, I just stopped buying anything from Atlus until rerelease. Will certainly not be buying Metaphor: ReFantazio until at least two years after release or upgraded version.
My main thing is, why ever buy a new Atlus game? I was literally lookin at Soul Hackers 2 dearing a summer sale cuz I kinda wanna see that game's issues for myself, but stopped myself and thought "Meh, they'll probably just release 'Soul Hackers 2: The Good Edition' later on." So they lost that sale all cuz they can't bring themselves to release a game just once. And, you know, I'm aware this isn't just an Atlus problem. Far as I know, it's kinda just common practice to do this in Japan. SquEnix does it, for example.
@@psycholuigiman They would only do itfor successful games. Soul Hackers 2 is likely not getting one. Devil Summoner has never gotten those. Only Persona and SMT.
@@backupschmliff1156 Think about what you just said. Now think about any of the games that came before Soul Hackers 2. Are there ANY games that Atlus re-released in English that were not Persona or a mainline SMT? Really think about the answer now. Heck, go back in this very video if you need to find the answer.
Oh, I'll just tell you the answer. We've got both Devil Survivor games, Catherine, freaking Tokyo Mirage Sessions (a wildly unpopular game), and you know, a little game that might've flew under your radar that was called Devil Summoner Soul Hackers! Bruh, did you just like enter a coma while watching this video or something? Hell, they re-released the first three Etrian Odyssey games TWICE over the years. Holy crap you were way off the mark with that one.
Finally, the only review of Vengeance worth watching.
Edit: After watching, I do want to say I hope they at least brought back SMT IV's encounter system, where enemies would try to ambush you while exploring the world. It actually felt pretty immersive and kept me on my toes all the time. Hopefully the next game brings it back, doubt it, but time will tell.
I think they just need to improve the current system. In IV encounters are annoying, especially when I just want to collect relics or do some side quests in already visited locations and don't to fight anyone. I hope they will update the current system of demons' behavior to be more aggressive, but only when demons are around your level.
They could also just bring back random encounters. I don't get why Nocturne's take on exploration had to go as soon as the next mainline entry.
@@VonFirflirch That is a good point, it nailed that alone with no one to back you up feel really well.
Somehow I doubt we're getting random encounters back though, which is a bummer.
There are encounters like you describe, Macabres and Peilledh both ambush you and there are probably others I'm forgetting. That said, you're right that enemies could stand to be a bit more varied in how they act.
What I liked about SMT IV was that you couldn't just stand around for very long without getting jumped by something. You actually had to be fully alert whenever you were exploring. In SMT V the on field enemies are way too static to ever be threatening unless you deliberately cross paths with them. Doesn't help that you can out run everything either.
I never found the stat boosts that encourageing to keep my curent demons hell I fuse more in 5 than any other SMT just because they make it so ridiculously easy to fill out most of the compendium in just 2 playthroughs
Also all the upgrades are mainly for the new Godborn mode like this game in general feels like it was built around the insanity that is godborn. Like being able to make any demon viable isnt for first playthrough its for when your on like your 6th NG+ completed all the routes and entered godborn-hard mode were everything is level 150 and can murder you instantly so you need to spend alot of time figuring out what exlusive skills are ideal for your strategies and use essence Fusion and stat boosting items which you can buy in godborn to devise the ideal strategies to survive it's just a shame they lock all that behind a minimum of two playthroughs
you only need 1 playthrough for godoborn do COV get a cleared save and reload before luci fight. you can then get the quest from mastema
@@kishannathan4186 I heard you had to do Y
True Neutral to unlock it
@@demi-fiendoftime3825 nope you just need a clear save idk if there was an update that changed it or not but i only did CoV and i got the satan boss and godborn after beating lucifer again
@@demi-fiendoftime3825 nope, you only need to do the the true Lucifer fight, which can be done in CoV as well
Others have mentioned it, but treating the big areas like massive dungeons with checkpoints instead of "open world" vastly lines your expectations correctly. The magatsu rails enable you to obtain shortcuts, not unlike in Strange Journey, each milestone in the area is rewarded by either a magatsu rail or a new Leyline, allowing you to slowly expand your area of influence and return less times to heal.
Early to mid game and even somewhat lategameish, unless you spend 3 hours farming mitamas and relics, money for fusing extensively becomes a premium, so with the inclusion of saving anywhere, I was able to take even more risks and use the magatsuhi in the field to heal and be more aggressive in expanding my area or influence before returning to the leyline to heal, stronger than before, and with shortcuts unlocked.
Lack of gimmicks like holes or hurt floors aside, look at the map and the magatsu rails, and you'll see what I mean.
SmtV V stopped trying to become an open world game and stuck with being a dungeon crawler, pushing the game from a 7 to me to a 9 to even a 10 depending on the mood. (Not to dismiss other criticisms, but I wanted to zone in on this one.)
Babe wake up a new Marsh vid just dropped!
Keep it up man you’re killing it
Once I treated each open area like a giant dungeon the game made a lot more sense to me. All of the guts of a dungeon is in these areas. One way doors/rooms, pitfalls, teleports, multilevel mazes, etc.
I very much disagree. Besides the fact they're clearily open and design-wise feel very different than an usual dungeon, they feel nothing like dungeons because there's no sense of threat, which was the core thing that makes gimmicks interesting to tackle.
Thats called lying to yourself... but hey to each their own
@@Zero-di9mz Nah. Shinjuku for example has a lot of teleporters, multilevel areas with dropdowns [which is like pitfall dungeons in other games], it has a bit of a dark room area, dropping off from one level down to another that only goes one way is essentially a one way door, there are small areas with buildings and alleyways that are functionally the same as mazes in other SMT games. All the parts of SMT dungeons exist in the overworld albeit in a different form. It does need to be honed and perfected and it can always get better. Also areas you can slide down and only slide in one direction is similar to the one way directional corridors in SJ. All the pieces of their previous dungeon designs all exist in the four main areas here. People just get hung up on them being "open world" or an "overworld". They are still dungeons. Just giant ones.
@@chaoschris8194 Have nothing in common with dungeons in SMT not 1 not 2 not 3 and def not 4/A i get what you mean but a dungeon is inside a enclosed area not in a open area were you can teleport freely not dungeons let you teleport on the fly, so even the real dungeons are not really dungeons... a dungeon is someplace that you enter and you feel traped like a jail thats why neither of those dungeons felt like actual dungeons fast travel kill em.
@@chaoschris8194 Exactly, I agree.
literally after i beat SMT V the first time, i was like "cant wait for the rerelease in like 3 years with the full content" and here we are. lol
"Full Content" - DLC enters the chat...
Its interesting hearing your thoughts on things. In regards to the power ups and so on, especially the Nahobino getting a gradually widening massive stat advantage-
I played on Hard, I didnt look at normal, so I'm going to put that as a disclaimer-
I think the Nahobino having a steadily widening inherent stat advantage works with the narrative about them being a true god/completed being. And on Hard Mode, the game was still pretty challening despite these tools- I did keep fusing, pretty consistently, because while a generally competent raw stat team could have maybe worked, most major fights benefited massively from bringing a more specialized team.
I actually found the free NPC partners interesting; early game their definitely great, but I found myself steadily using them less. I think someone not fusing due to using them would make it a while, but hit walls.
Yeah I felt the same way. I started on hard so when this guy started mentioning all of his gripes, I was kind of confused
Most of them dont even have that many good skills to be honest tao dazai and yuzuro are kinda shit and yoko is like god tier
Always glad to see another banger from Marsh, can’t believe my dictionaries are all censored.
Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance Apocalypse confirmed!?
Jokes aside, I love the reference to the first thumbnail
SMT V: Vengeance Apocalypse Reload Maniax + Portable The Overclock Breaker Deluxe Eternal Golden FES Royal Encore Full Body Ultra Suplex Hold HD 2 Premium Edition (Expansion Pass and Day 1 DLC included) coming for the Nintendo Wii U this Fall!
featuring dante from the devil may cry series
@@bewill5121 So Raidou, Yakumo, Kato, and Vega (or Bison, as he is known in the US) walk into a bar...
Now in HD!
Let's go, love your videos!!!
It kinda nags at me when someone says 3D MegaTen just doesn't have the complex trap-filled mazes of FP MegaTen when Nocturne exists. That game was full on "Oops! All trap corridors!"
nocturne was sort of like a first person game in 3d yeah you could even just play it in first person
I loved it either way. Dungeons where, when you get lost frequently enough, the ridiculous mazes start to feel like your backyard. Strange Journey did it too. First person or third, the dungeons rocked in Nocturne.
Can't watch this yet (haven't gotten around to finishing the game yet) but will gladly come back to it later!
All I hope for is that going forward, they decide to combine SMT5's level design for overworlds with the older games dungeons.
This certainly feels like the most honest review of this game. I didn't even know there were only two endings in the new story. It's like a lot of SMT reviewers sorta expect that we've all been obsessively checking and keeping up with all the latest news on the game before it comes out. Basically, it's obvious nobody buttered up your ass with a review copy, and I think that's a good thing.
MARSH UPLOADED LEEETSSS FUCKING GOOOOOOO RAAAAAHHHHH 🦅🔥🇺🇸🦅🔥🇺🇸🦅🔥🇺🇸🦅🔥🇺🇸🦅🔥🇺🇸🦅🔥🇺🇸🦅
just when i was about to fall asleep the GOAT releases
1:35 It was the final product, it has issues but it was good.
I notice you based on your expectations rather than for what it is the passing of the story was weird, like nocturne, but the story itself was good, the point of the whole game is about godhood and the first that did ask the player to be inmerse in theology to get some pieces, that was their mistake, also character wise tao and the aligment heroes did need more time.
Overall, people judge too hard V, vengeance is a fix, because is an update or even remastered to a certain extend but even nocturne got that (original 3 was different in its first release, by a lot of stuff, we didn't live that because we receive the updated version).
That said VV did bring a lot of stuff that is definitely more than just good.
Any day that Marsh uploads is a good day, thanks for the video and all the work! I'd personally be interested in mainline videos and your opinions on Nocturne and SMT4, but I know you prefer to catalogue lesser known games. Anything you choose to make will be entrancing I'm sure :)
Putting this on in the background on mute for the algorithm and returning once I finish the game. I'm so close and then realized I hadn't done a lot of the side quests!
Love your videos, explanations and perspective on the games. Your Toho Academia video got me into your channel and also helped me through that game with the puzzles.
I’d say the separations between CoC and CoV are kinda like Devil Survivor 2 record breaker where you can choose to play the original or the remake story and they’re separate but you can at least carry across save data
I think the (nearly entirely) unique passive skills each demon gets in this game push fusion towards the player in more of a "carrot" way than the traditional "stick" roadblocks that came from slow demon levelling or the necessity of boss-by-boss team building. Reading the descriptions for the elemental gestalt passives and Setanta/Cu Chulainn's passives had me enamoured with building whole teams in a way full of the same wonder as when I first started playing SMT games. Not to say your criticism of fusion is unwarranted, of course.
Atlus rereleasing stuff with updated versions is second only to Capcom doing it. Though at least to my understanding Atlus never went “this is the director’s cut of Resident Evil with the uncensored opening movie” and just forgot to switch the opening… and then *forgot a second time* with the Dual Shock version.
My favorite RUclipsr at it again, love your videos Nakajima Lover
I dunno In strange Journey i had the same demons for almost 2/3s of the entire game cause sources made demons longevity and power crazy high and no one complained there
I had a very different experience with SJ but it was also one of my first so I might be in the same boat if i replay it
@@MarshSMT Demon sources are super fucked up in that game. SJ can be pretty challenging but once you realize that sources allow you to get OP skills easily and early that challenge starts to go away
I only got a fixed team in sj when i got to mem aleph
Honestly essenses are broken and all but i freakin hate that system and the entire fusion system of that game
It felt like the game that rewarded fusion the least and sometimes j was asking why i dont recruit a cherub from the streets and give him some good skills via essense isntead of spending 30 hours fusing your demons only for them to lose all their good skills in the process
Thats the one thing they should have changed in redux
The superboss satan revealing that there is a multiverse of worlds all with the same mandala system was pretty cool. Idk why you didnt mention this as I consider it part of the story.
I love when a new Marsh video hits my feed
I have no idea how I missed an upload, but this is absolutely a welcomed surprise to have more Marsh content
I wasn't really expecting a full fix of the story, I was mostly just expecting it to be better. As for gameplay, obviously better than before. I actually really liked Yoko and how much her interactions with Tao added to the context of the game, but I did still think Dazai, Yuzuru and Sahori's stories were a bit silly, but I do respect the decisions. Overall I feel I mostly got what I wanted from the game as a rerelease, though DLC issues do piss me off. The fact that Mitama still cost money is wild, man.
I think I agree with the thoughts about the environments. The sand wasn't fun to explore, and the whole world being deserted while being told that massive wars are raging gave me a weird feeling of isolation or separation from the plot, like Neo stuck in that looping subway station.
9:00 IMO, this doesnt really disincentivise fusing stronger demons because at some point, youre gonna need to fuse those stronger demons to get their essences for better skills.
My first SMT game was SMTV on Hard mode. Got obsessed with the game and ended up doing True Neutral on that playthrough, and the thing that carried me through Shiva was Idun and her unique skill. She's technically a midgame demon, but I kept re-fusing her with stronger and stronger input demons until her stats became higher and higher and she was eventually capable in the endgame. And while I'm sure it's common baby knowledge for experienced SMT fans, I felt like a GENIUS for figuring out how to abuse the fusion system to take a midgame demon and make her endgame viable on my own. That wouldn't have been nearly as memorable to me if the game just kept boosting her stats constantly "for free" through dialogue
great review marsh
I think they seperated the Canon of Creation and the Canon of Vengeance from each other to avoid people complaining about the new content interfering with the old one. Looking back at games like P4 Golden or SJ Redux you will find alot of people complaining about the new content and new character. So by seperating the new story content from the old one, people who just wanna play Vanilla SMTV without said new content can do it.
Some other things I liked you didnt mention:
- I really liked that you unlock Hayataro much earlier in COV as opposes to COC. In COC you either got him automaticially after choosing the Myriad Gods Route ( at Level 40 in an Level 80 Area ) or by fusing him in NG+. In COV you can fuse him by the time you reach Shinjuku where he is much more useful and was my MVP for most of the Area.
- I liked the Ability to redistribute my Statpoints via these special Items. They avoid being broken by being rather rare and only letting redistribute self assigned Statpoints and not the random ones from Level Ups.
The last one contains Spoilers for an optional quest chain in the End Game that got added to Vengeance, dont read if you dont wanna get spiled and discover it yourself
- I really liked these optional Cutscenes you can find. For example after encountering Yakumo in Taito ( COV only ), you unlock Dialouge from one of the Researchers at Bethel who mentioned seeing him near the School. You will actually find him when you enter the school and after that you can find him at the Temple. Both encounters trigger cutscenes where you learn a bit more about Yakumo and lets you unlock Nuwa early.
Given the dev's fixation on bulls and snakes, and how Creation is the "bull" route that has you fight a hydra, I was hoping Vengeance would swap it, and have old buddy Minotaur at Tokyo tower. Missed opportunity I think, and it's also just strange that, afaik, he of all demons hasn't appeared in 3d yet.
‘Beautiful but uneventful ride on the freeway’ compared to smt1 rollercoaster is the the best way I’ve seen anyone describe how this game feels
The Vengeance re-release was my first exposure to Megaten. I got really into it. The gameplay was some of the most fun I've ever had in any videogame, the soundtrack was incredible, and I had an amazing time. It was weird though. The more I played and thought about that game the less satisfied I was. I think all the best aspects of SMTV are really fleeting, and are really only felt while playing it. The parts of it that are grating really add up, too. Like I found the way people/demons talked in V to be weirdly childish? It's a quality that's hard to define, but a lot of what they say seems to character assassinate without actually building any new mystique or identity for them. I think V's speaking voice really undermines itself, and as you move away from it's darker and more personal first act to focus on supernatural adventures and helping demons with quirky sidequests, it really starts to feel like a story that didn't need to be set in the apocalypse at all. All of that sounds really harsh, but I love the hell out of V. It just kinda felt like something was missing.
I went back and played Nocturne. Even without a history in Megaten I feel like SMTV hyped me up for an experience I didn't get, so playing 3 was really cathartic. Like it did all the stuff I thought that V was gunna do, at the cost of being a little CBT about it. It's my new favourite game of all time. I'm hyped to check out Strange Journey and 4 next, and i've binged Marsh stuff in the meantime. I'm hoping that if I watch enough of his videos i'll be ready for this really hard fight I heard about in SMT4.
Having played through VV and Nocturne already ought to be enough to prepare you for "that" fight in IV. It's basically just a difficulty-spike tutorial boss with some BS rng. Knowing the basics of press turn and using buffs/debuffs like you're probably trained to do already should suffice...
....and maybe a reset if the funny man shows you his neat agi skills...
I loooved this game, I think it's just such a huge improvement over the original. Something that really sticks out to me is how incredible the visuals are in a number of sequences. The effects that happen during the Qadistu sacrifice, for example, are just so sick and I don't really recall the original having visuals like that where the colour of the whole screen is manipulated.
I don’t know if this also happens in the Canon of Creation, but if you go back to the school dorms rooftop every now and then, you can talk to the npc who was with Dazai in the tunnel at the beggining of the game and you can gain a bit more information about Dazai backstory and how he got more confident after gaining power from Mastema.
Hey Marsh, great video. I used to watch you like 3 years ago when i was big into Megaten. Now that im easing back into the series again I started rewatching your old videos and I must say, your voice changed quite a lot lol.
I loved what they did with the bosses of the final area but we definitely needed more.
Odin and Zeus have the same strengths and weaknesses so it only makes sense to just throw em in the same battle. Especially because they were easy individually.
Thank God Marsh dropped, I can finally have an opinion on this game now
DANG IT! The ONE thing I wanted from this remake was the opportunity for Sahori to take Tao's place as my companion in her own disco space suite (you know it would have been red!) depending on the Route.
I hope we do get an explorable city like the one from SMT II or kinda like the one from SMT Nine even.
Great video marsh i agree 100 percent on exploration.
What really pissed me off is i wanted to play casually with the gf so we played on easy and it was fine for awhile...but at a certian point in the vengeance story we got our asses kicked and had to downgrade to the lowest of all difficulties just to see the rest of the story
man it was frustrating to have to do but overall its worth it once the game is on sale for anyone interested in the series for sure but not at full price
There is this secret area in smtv vengeance you will find yourself in a tower and your in a city in the tower your objective kill the Minotaur
I think why they kept lucifer at the end of the vengeance route is because, I noticed that the devs wanted to ensure you were able to see all the demons you could normally see/fight in the canon of creation, whether it be moving side quests around, or even including bosses you didn’t get to fight in the battle trainer so that you can unlock them as a special fusion (surt, ishtar, etc), so they felt like if lucifer wasn’t able to be fought at the end of vengeance, it wouldn’t be fair for the vengeance path choosers, which makes me feel like the routes are more similar than different
I love this game, it helped to cheer me up in one of my lowest points in my life mentally (which I’m still in currently). But it really has its issues like, Lucifer being the final boss, not having more than one new map, a fair amount of missed opportunities to expand the story and lore more, and it’s weirdly strange obsession with trying to “connect” this game with nocturne (which falls flat most of the time) just to name a few. This game is a lot of fun and helped me get my mind off stuff and relax in what felt like ages, I love the cast in this game and honestly didn’t expect some of the twists in this new story. Overall a much better game than base 5 solid 9/10 for me personally. If I have any true complaints it’s the fact that demiurge should’ve been in the game at least as the new super boss instead of Satan or at most should’ve replaced ol’ Louis as the final boss trying to take/taking back the throne from him.
BRO!! I saw that name, Marsh Mello is back and I’m so happy
I'm so glad you called the video what you did
16:20 objectively you can't describe the game any better than this quote
Was a little surprised you didn't mention the dlc for the original game was bundled in (aside from the mitama). That doesn't excuse the new dlc, but I thought it was worth noting. I also wasn't really feeling the need to fuse demons as often, I actually had hundreds of thousands of macca lying around cause I didn't go to the world of shadows as often. I understand making it easier to bring them up to par with your own level, though, with the new innate skills being a thing. Makes it easier to craft the specific team you want. I still went on a fusing spree at the endgame for those better resistances and skills, but I can definitely see people ignoring that. Great video as always.
"Balls out" (shows Cerberus' behind). As for the ease of demons sticking around, maybe the team wants to make a more traditional team based rpg and it's starting to come through in these updates.
Hey man appreciate how good all ur MT coverage has been, personally I absolutely really appreciated was having Yoko and Tao around most the game as it made the world feel way more alive and that you were actually making a difference. Yoko and the Prime Minister are easily the two best characters in the game and either of them could make my top 10 Megaten characters but I'm still tilted we were so close to Sahori being relevant at least her story was better I guess. Main thing I can give Vengeance is that it made me feel something which the Vanilla game failed at, I actually cared about character fates, sympathised with certain sentiments and even wanted to get involved which was refreshing vs vanilla where I played the game to just play more game.
I agree with most the takes u laid out here except for a few tbh
- I personally love the demon raising stuff and think good direction to head in however they need to strike a balance of fusion needing to be used to a extent or heavily encouraged, imo Vengeance esp on hard mode hits that balance mostly right, it allows players to have great fonder memories with their demons and create own experiences which is more memorable than sweatshop fusing upwards cause you finally got Agilao
- Shakan was better than demon king castle but mainly due to when it was placed story wise: stakes raised, no aogami and ur two emotional support women are gone so to me it felt great just sole mindset of really wanting to just kill everyone get the throne in retaliation.
-I do agree old areas are a bit bland and full disclosure I am a Taito simp just due to it being quite different in design philosophy with high level demons everywhere and getting keys from a battlefield. But I think alot of the areas are better and feel more alive due to the guest character dialogue you get now, I actually enjoyed exploring so could Yoko and Tao comment on the world or the quest just did it helps it feel like more than just tokyo, red tokyo, grey annoying tokyo etc.
Sorry for lengthy comment I just know you like to read these sorts of things rather than snappy tweets crying about random encounters or surface level complaints, happy ur still getting review copies man cause u do great content for community
another Review from the GOAT himself
Bro, I was just thanking you last night as I struggled to remember the name of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Thanks Marsh. You do more good every day by accident than most people do when they try. Keep being a chill dude. 😎
Great vid so far. I loved Vengeance so much.
What really stood out to me was when I had 99 grimoires in my inventory and couldn't pick up any more. They definitely overturned some aspects of demon upgrade materials. And I wasn't even using the mitama dlc
I feel there was some stuff missing. The godborn looks sick (if I can beat a certain boss), plus the anime-style scene were you get back your godly dragonslayer? Chef's kiss
40:19 I mean, I hope they include all but... this was an issue since 4 and 4F/A which I think is WAY worse, because dagda and konohasakuya quest at least aren't tied to the main story...
Would love to see you cover the first two persona games that'd be cool
I can't wait to play this version. Great as always!
I already put like as I know what to expect from your videos 😊, unfortunately will have to watch later as I’m currently playing the game and want to avoid vengeance spoilers, I’ll get back to it soon hopefully !
"If you don't buy it, you're not missing much."
Uh, excuse these people, I'm missing Dagda.
13:20 I never noticed the fusion issue, for me negotiation was always just a dice roll that gave you mediocre version of the same demon you could get for a bit more macca.
Just bought this myself. It's so nice to be able to play this on ps5 now and have actual draw distance. The dithering I could get past on the switch, but the 12 fps was hard to swallow
A day when marsh uploads is a good day
I think the gameplay is an overall definite improvement, but I wish there was a little bit more outside the combat, and the Shinjuku area was a great addition.
For the story I feel things were great for the first 2/3rds of the story of Vengeance. The character interaction was a necessity, it elevated so much, but right when Tiamat appeared is when I felt a downward slope. The Qadistu were great villains, and maybe they couldn't do much more with them, but Yoko fell into the background till the end (for the Law Route) and wasn't a prominent replacement villain. I also feel many characters were done poorly to downright dirty for the last 3rd of the game: Abdiel was basically the only character that was built up at all in original 5 besides Dazai, she got nothing in Vengeance and even changed off camera. I deeply miss her scene where she was convinced by Lucifer to change (also gave more screen time to Lucifer who desperately needs some). Dazai felt like he missed the whole act 2 of his 3 part story. Same with Miyazu, who felt like she not only missed out on half the plot but had a heel turn that was not hinted at. I appreciated both Miyazu and Dazai more in the original story; especially Miyazu, her contentious relationship with Khonsu was beautiful. One of the only stand out parts of that game. Everyone else, except Sahori, I appreciate what they did with; Tao, Yuzuru and Tsukuyomi the most.
My rating for the mainline games (mostly based on story):
1) SMT:SJ
2) SMT:3
3) SMT:2
4) SMT:1
5) SMT:5 Vengeance
6) SMT:4
7) SMT:5
8) SMT:4 Apocalypse
I have yet to play Devil Survivor, it's next on the chopping block.
Out of all the SMTW reviews out there, this one is the most Marshcore
I really loved SMTVV, so much that it's the first SMT game I completed 100% and got every achievement on Steam in. I agree with everything said in this video.
Honestly my own biggest complaint with the game is that the demon selection is still a bit too low for my liking; they added, like, 40 or something new guys on top of the original's 230, but most of them were reused from Soul Hackers 2, and while the brand new demons made for this game like Anansi, Nyami Nyami and Konohana-Sakuya as well as the dudes they brought back like Mastema I adore, I personally still feel like they could've added so much more. I am obsessed with this franchise's depictions of mythological beings, and even though it's just a very minor thing I still would've liked it if they did much more. Also using that same camera mod you mentioned, I found out my beautiful man Mastema doesn't have eyebrows textured; overall amazing video game.
Sorry for yapping; this is a really good and detailed video. You always bring out the quality stuff and I adore all your work dude. As much as the funny rerelease makes me hopeful for the future of the series, I'm also always excited for more of your content, because you inspire me to experience more of this series for myself. So thank you for all you do for this community, man. Please keep doing your greatest. :)
I agree with all your points but the amount of content they released plus the best soundtrack atlus ever delivered (i mean it) makes this my favourite SMT.
After playing Vengeance, I wish that customizing your favorite demons would go back to the amount of effort that was needed in prior entries, with stuff like Mitama fusion investments, going backwards with elemental fusions, or fusing a high level demon with a low level one to pass their higher tier skills. I'm just as guilty as everyone else who roided up their favorite demon into the endgame for Vengeance but it really made me miss fusion
I will say outside of superbosses Cu Chulainn going all in on Gae Bolg made all the bosses trivial especially with a Scathach in the back for the magatshuhi skill
tfw you can pair Omnipotent Succession WITH Omagatoki Crit 🗿
OmSu is treated as a Charge effect. As long as you don't attack you can preserve it between turns. Build up your Magatsuhi Gauge again (Evergreen Dance is kinda cracked) and pop OmCr for Quad Attack WITH Crits. Or for something even more heinous: Omagatoki Charge instead of Crit. OmCh preservers Charge effects until the next turn which OmSu counts. You can get up to 16 MC attacks off if you play it right.
I love the whacky nonsense you can get away with to break the game over your knee 😂
FINALLY. The megaten specialist himself covering vengeance
This should be fun
Great video! I left an absolute novel of a comment on your SMTII video so I hope you don't mind if I leave one here too. Even if you fall asleep reading it, I want to get my thoughts out here. Again, I just want to say thank you so much for all the content you make on your channel. It's easily one of my favorite channels.
Out of curiosity, were you playing on Normal? I felt a lot different about fusion, feeling in danger, and the free items. I was playing on Hard myself. Although for me, I often forgot about the Gospels and Grimoires until random points, mostly late in the game. In fact the only place I really used Gospels and Grimoires was near the end to get my perfect squad for Lucifer (who I had trouble with this time for some reason). I had the same thing happen to me with the original and both SMTIV and IV:A (which both of those games also gave you a lot of those kinds of items). It might just be my ADHD, but I always felt like I had to constantly be fusing and felt like I was "stuck" if I couldn't fuse something significantly better than what I had (even though what I had was really good). That said, I agree I don't really care for the whole idea of moving away from fusion, but I also think Vengeance is far from the first game to do this. Hell even Nocturne does it by incentivizing you keeping your first Pixie (or whatever demon you fuse her into). I remember back when the original Persona 5 came out, I remember someone posting on a forum that they "skipped the fusion" when they beat the game. I asked what that even meant: They used DLC Personas.
I know you didn't care for the dungeons (including Shakan), but to me it always felt like the Da'ats were a dungeon. We definitely have differing opinions on the Da'ats themselves, I personally liked them, but I also get why you didn't (outside of Shinjuku). I also enjoyed Demon King's Castle and Shakan myself though, and while they definitely are not the high point of dungeons in the franchise, they're solid. I didn't particularly care for Temple of Eternity though, I liked the Chi-You gimmick, but I just felt the time stopping gimmick just seemed underutilized and was over before it really picked up. Also that part in the original game in the Demon King's Castle, pre-patch, with all the jumping and the fans did nothing wrong. I never understood the need to patch that.
However that section in Shinjuku that's dark and Agrat illusions chase you felt like a very MegaTen dungeon-ass dungeon. Like I was seriously shocked they did that when I got to that part, and was really impressed. There was tension. Sure, you could fight the Agrat illusions, but it took a lot of resources and was often resulting in a trip back to the Leyline, because otherwise you feel like you could get clapped by another illusion or even just a regular encounter after that.
I agree that the concept of the story wasn't bad in the original, and also fall under the "It just barely existed" camp. I haven't done any count, but I swear Miyazu had like ten times the amount of voiced dialogue she had in the original, and she's STILL technically a sidequest here, but a very prominent one that involves the whole human gang. Due to Yuzuru's fate, we get more of a sense of what's going to happen to her now. I really really liked Yuzuru being so much more than just Koshimizu's yes man. For Dazai, I'm one of the few defenders on his little "no longer a sucka, now a super saiyan" moment in the original, as well as here in Vengeance. To me it felt totally on brand for the dude, who's never been good at anything and talks about making his sweet Jake Paul-ass RUclips career but never gets anywhere. Getting to talk to all the humans in the demon haunts gives you so much more insight into what kind of people they actually are. Dazai feels like he's got all the power and so he watched DBZ a few times too many and throws off the hat and goes Super Saiyan. This was true in the original, and moreso here.
I particularly liked that we got moments of these people actually being friends before all this happened. The cutscene with the boys in the dorm was great, because in the original it seemed like these people barely knew each other before the events of the game. Just simply hearing more from Tao especially, as well as Yoko really helps build the characters and story. Those aren't huge bombastic reveals, but it turns out hearing from the central human characters really helps develop the story. I definitely rate the story in Canon of Vengeance as "solid", but still not the narrative juggernauts of the franchise. I consider those to be SMTII, Persona 2, Digital Devil Saga, and Strange Journey.
Also random thing, which version of Lucifer were you fighting? I saw you were level 74 (presumably with that miracle that removes the demon level restriction) fighting against him, and I could see this being feasible if it's the "Powerful being" version, but not the "Extremely Powerful Being" version. I struggled on Lucifer so much myself and started trying when I was in the 80s (but had some high level guys in the 90s, like Shiva). I leveled myself to 98 and STILL struggled. I ended up beating it by just using Shield of God every time he was about to throw the Morning Star in the last phase. This was on the "Extremely Powerful being" version. However one thing I managed to accomplish, was being Shiva at level 80! That felt so good, especially knowing how in the original I would have gotten clapped in 1-2 turns if I attempted that. I am actually planning on playing the original Switch version again and seeing if I can even get close at 80.
I always feel like the music in this game is literally this meme: i.imgflip.com/8yyuzr.jpg Kozuka does not miss, I will never understand how this man is even human. So many times in Vengeance he managed to wow me with the new tracks. I bought the Vengeance soundtrack on Amazon and saw it had 80+ tracks, and then I looked through the titles: Not a SINGLE ONE was from the original SMTV. Kozuka is a god and is honestly the best composer the franchise has ever had.
It's a minor dumb gripe, but I really wish there was a way to keep the whip instead of the sword after you turn back into blue hair Nahobino. I just want the long blue hair and a whip in the same thing.
I think the Demon Haunts are overall a rather understated feature, not necessarily for the stat boosts and free items, but just for the flavor text. It's wild how much world building that does. Every single demon has multiple unique lines to say pertaining to their lore. There's almost 300 in the game. If you do the math, that's an INSANE amount of writing for a feature that some of the player base may not even engage with much. I started an NG+ run on Creation, starting Nahobino's level over at 1, but grabbing the Miracle that removes the demon limit. I had level 28 Nezha Taizi before I beat Hyrda, and after beating Hydra, I talked to him in the Demon Haunt and he actually talked about how we finally whooped Hydra's ass! This is a demon that in a first playthrough, no one is going to have by the time they get to Hydra unless they just used the Mitama EXP DLC to grind to hell and back, and they actually wrote dialogue for having him that early in the game. The world building in the demon haunts in general really just makes me think back to how good the world building in SMTIV was, with things like normal people sometimes mentioning the Reds well before they're even pitched to you in the main story.
Anyway I'm sure this comment has gone on way too long, but I was always interested in your opinion on this game. I finished Law Vengeance the other day, and I'm doing at least one Creation run, as well as Chaos Vengeance, but so far I personally put the game in an A-Tier, but that may change with time.
Thanks for everything you do, and keep it up! I hope you're doing well in real life too.
I appreciate it, I love these big comments so no worries haha. Much of my gameplay was on normal to establish a baseline of what the difficulty was like. Hard mode definitely improves things a bit, I probably could have dived further into that and the idea that some of the older games like Nocturne didn't have difficulty settings so everyone got the same experience.
The Demon King Castle patch was pretty funny, I remember them releasing that and wondering if anyone had actually complained about it. For Lucifer, the footage I used was just against the normal one, but I have done the harder one before. In terms of actual gameplay it's solid, I'm not huge on his dialogue but the fight itself is fun. Shield of God definitely feels like it was designed for the last few bosses.
The haunts are a great feature overall, yeah the stats weren't my favorite but dialogue was excellent. I think if they had put them in Soul Hackers 2 it might have really saved that game for me. Glad you liked Vengeance, overall I had fun too and I really have no idea what to expect with the next SMT which is exciting
Dazais character showing how quickly he goes mad with power is even funnier if you read Fallen Abdiels later dialogue. She’s not only just as power mad regardless of route as Dazai, she makes clear that Law in the world of SMTV advocates for Social Darwinism. God is the mist powerful and thus it’s only natural he stands at the top! Rivals Kresnik was him going on a rant about how Inequality is not only GOOD, but REQURIED for Law to exist and bring “prosperity”.
I do think people seem to really miss the fact that the story is unsubtle that the Horned God is supported and propped up by Mandala, and that itself becomes the foundation of the conflict. It’s why sidequests like with Mastema make it even more clear why rejecting Mandala is required to reject the Horned God and the Law he represents.
Playing on the switch, one of the first things I wanted to see was when you press start and the menu came up, the transition screen was so choppy and weird on the original. I'm very satisfied to see that it's crisp and fast now
Great vid Marsh. I agree with almost everything except for the leveling up mechanic. I honestly believe it's necessary for both player and their party.
Also I'm glad you enjoyed Vengeance more than the original. Here's hoping 6 will be even better.
When I dropped into the same final area again, it felt really bad and I didn't know how much the level scaling was fixed so I was doing the big old grind to 70~ again and it took it out of me. It's what made me drop the original release, but at least this time I was engaged by the story. The ending being dependent on prior choices feels like a much better decision than just lol pick your explosion colour like ME3.
I think the grimoire system is totally valid, and allows for newer players who like stuff like pokemon to have fun with the demons they really like and customize them as much as they want, and older players to simply ignore like I did. I actually think exploration is also pretty enjoyable, though i wish there was more coherency to each of the locations aside from feeling like a really big level, if they were all interconnected in some way, like having mini transitional areas between each of them that lead into the other, that would do a lot for enjoyment, but thats a big ask i suppose. Definitely think taking an approach like Nocturne or SMT IV in terms of dungeons with maybe some added jumping or walking speed and some form of world map or overworld, could definitely make for some peak exploration for a modern SMT game. As usual though the video was a fun watch, and I can't wait to see more content from you.
I liked Grimoires personally too. Didn't find a need for them for most of the game. Engaging with the fusion system and rotating my demons in and out generally yielded better results than investing in diminishing returns. I DID however use them end game. Being a flat level up instead of setting exp to 1 like in Vanilla is a huge convenience for essence farming and team building. Also helps that Gospels, the MC Grimoire (and the demon statues by extension), are sparse and Grims can't exceed MC level.
With how higher level demons would have been a pain to get to max level, the Grimores and Gospels saved time. Especially when you can buy Grimores at the end. Wonderful rare Candies.
@@pokehybridtrainer Speaking of rare candies.
I'm...Kinda okay with SMT taking heavier cues from Pokemon? Grimoires being rare candies, innate skills being poke abilities, demon haunts being pastures/campgrounds, demons having unique skill affinities, more unique demon skills, I think it does a lot to help SMT really carve out its own modern identity apart from Persona. Lean into the demons and how they relate to and effect human people.
I think the next logical step forward is your party following you while exploring like how some pokemon games let you set follower pokemon. Could even take that a step farther and let your active party be your navigators.
Jack Bros.: Subsistence
I agree it's weird that they add so much to make fusion unnecessary. One of the big things that separates SMT from other monster collectors like Pokemon is that you don't keep your guys with you the whole game, you're constantly swapping demons in and out. They're less like your best pals and more like your begrudging coworkers (although admittedly, it is cool how Devil Summoner games do more to build the relationship between you and them).
The legend has returned
Those bonus points won't feel like nearly enough once the new super bosses are unlocked on the hard difficulties.
With the bit at the end re: first and third person design, I'm realizing that the only first-person Megaten game I've actually run through to completion was Strange Journey.
I've been interested in the three SMTs that came out for the Super Famicom and also Kyuuyaku.
The oldest title I've actually gone through was actually Nocturne. There's a lot to this whole thing I haven't seen.
It would be cool if you did a video on "Laplace No Ma," or "Laplace's Demon" for the SNES.