Crashing Just 17 Seconds After Takeoff in New York | The Plane that Couldn't Climb
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2022
- A Douglas DC-8 accelerates down the runway at John F. Kennedy International Airport, New York, and a few moments later, the aircraft lifts off. Just 17 seconds later, however, something terrible happens. Here's the story of Trans International Airlines Flight 863.
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This video has been recorded and edited in 4K resolution and 60FPS. 
Игры
It is so amazing how the NTSB finds out what happened to a flight, even if there is hardly anything left of a plane. These inspectors deserve a lot of respect.
They make it up
@@graciegjj No,they don't. Have you ever seen the warehouses full of the scraps of the airplanes, the hundreds if not thousands of legal documentation papers, the people sitting there for hours if not days poring over the blackbox recordings? The expenditure of time and money is too insane for them to go "Eh, we'll just make up something".
@@emilyelizabethbuchanan998 Well said! And correct!
@@graciegjj The earth is flat too right?
@@emilyelizabethbuchanan998 Don't feed the deluded, alternate reality troll.
My wife witnessed this crash as a young girl and remembers it vividly. Last year, we stayed at the TWA hotel, and she got to stand in the same spot of the old terminal where she had seen the explosion and smoke all those years before. Quite a chilling experience.
Comments like yours are why I continue to view these awful events on video. Your telling of your wife's story makes this so much more human, especially the fact that she returned to such an awful place that must have scarred her emotionally. I guess what I take out of your story is that your wife was able to get some sort of resolution from what must have been such a horrific, emotional event for her.
😢😢😢
TWA hotel? Does it have something in common with defunct TWA airlines?
@@151bar151 yes. The old terminal has been turned into a hotel. You must visit if flying through JFK. They even have a rooftop pool overlooking the airport and a Lockheed Constellation turned into a bar.
Glad she could relive the experience.
As a pilot, these videos are amazing training aids. I watch them and learn new things even after flying for 30 years
Thank you for doing that Bruce! You are the kind of pilot we want to fly those airplanes. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for your services . I know ppl say “It’s their job “ but getting souls back and forth safely is heroic in my book 🎉
Even with all your years of experience, you're still humble and still learning! Kudos to you, sir!
Sorry, but your statement seems bizarre. I really like these videos, but often there are spelling errors, so there must be occasional numerical and word errors also. Watching these to learn is interesting for non-pilots, but I wouldn’t be using these for critical learning.
@@ElenaAshe -- I salute you for your Troll services! Where would we be without the internet trolls?
This one struck me as particularly sad. All those young lives lost for something so mundane as a stone 😞
And Immediately I’m saying ABORT ABORT !!
“For want of a shoe, a horse was lost, for want of a horse, a battle was lost, for want of a battle, a war was lost, for want of a war, a kingdom was lost, and all for the want of a shoe.”
There are no passengers are the plane
@@qianma6921 No passengers but there were altogether a flight crew of 11: captain, FO, FE and eight flight attendants.
I hope airports today do a better job keeping runways cleaned up. Especially, when there has been work going on.
Crazy to think such a small thing could bring down an airliner, and even crazier with such an experienced crew that none of them thought to abort the takeoff when it was unstable. Rip to all those involved
Yeah I would've pulled the power out of it as soon as I found the yoke unresponsive.
I wonder how much pressure the pilots are from management on getting planes to their destination on-time...I'd think that pressure could always be a factor in their decision making.
@@jeraldehlert7903Or, something safer you could do is retract flaps and hope that the low airspeed is enough to land the airliner. Then you can abort the landing with a slight overrun.
@@M3fPCGFJSGDlORUbZAwKback then a ton. Not so much now.
No it's not crazy to think one missing nut or Bolt in a critical section can bring down a plane
Really sad to see the loss of such an experienced crew. It’s hard enough to replace pilots but to lose a crew with almost 50,000 hrs of experience between them makes this accident even sadder.
What about the souls that were lost?
@@HollyJolly819 There were no passengers. Every death is a tragedy if the victim hasn't prepared themselves well for the afterlife.
@@HollyJolly819
I was just trying to say something besides the rip that is so common in these threads. Obviously I feel bad for the families!
Factually tho this was an incredibly experienced crew so I also feel bad for the 1970s aviation industry cuz they lost a whole crew of experience that’s extremely tough to get.
@Stevi Robinson I reported you Stevi. I see you have no subscribers and all your replies are hateful! You don't belong here. B
@Stevi Robinson Sick fork aren't ya?
FOD sweeps are very critical in airline safety. We had maintenence combing the tarmac and runways constantly.
FOD is a real danger. Just ask the folks on Concorde.
I spent 5 hours waiting for departure from Rhein Main Air Force Base, Frankfurt West Germany, December 26, 1968 as they removed snow ..again & again and AGAIN so we could safely take off for Wheelus AFB in Tripoli, Libya…. Yes …. Our departure could NOT have happened otherwise…. And that was a twin piston driven freighter carrying a steam roller & a few bags of mail plus a couple guys catching a hop to Tripoli…. Obviously necessary job..
@@StarPartners The airport for Rhein Main is the civil airport EDDF/FRA Frankfurt. The USAF had a ramp on the south side of the civil airport.
Hard to believe that such a highly experienced crew would not have aborted the take-off immediately.
Immediately at which point?
Awwww….what’s a little taildrag. Just slap some fresh paint on at the destination.
Why is something we will never know but watching the video when it mentioned it pitched nose up at such a slow speed my first thought was out of trim or weight and balance problem's and I would have been stopping. (I flew B757'sfor a living)
Maybe they all felt too safe since they were such an experienced crew.
My doubt is why the plane was unable to get its takeoff speed easily.
As a side note, I'm amazed at how realistic they got the sound of the JT3D engines. That's actually quite incredible.
Yeah, I’ve noticed the engine sounds this RUclipsr’s flight sim has are usually very accurate to every aircraft’s engine
So sorry for the loss of the crew..but fortunately this large plane was empty of passengers when the accident happened, imagine how many passengers would have lost their lives if the plane was loaded to its full capacity.
If this airplane was full of passengers and fuel this accident would never have happened. It happened because of it’s very light weight. The crew should have aborted the takeoff as soon as it auto rotated. The Captains decision to take off was fatal. If any crewmember had closed the throttles to idle at any time from the initial rotation until shortly after liftoff they would have had a good story to tell. They didn’t and died as a result.
@@georgeconway4360 Well even if it was fully loaded they will still have the jammed elevator problem which would have been catastrophe as it does say there were resurfacing at JFK around that time. And some rocks were discovered in the gap between the horizontal stabiliser and the Right side elevator. So either way they were done. Just look up Emery 17 they suffered the same fate the only difference was that the nut bolt to the right elevator was not put back in place.
However, as you said if they aborted takeoff because this was before V1 they would've survived but they didn't. So yes pilot error is partly to blame but the primary caused was that of a rock that was lodged into the right side elevator and jammed it.
@@RBMapleLeaf Incorrect because with the nose up the airplane would not be able to accelerate sufficient to liftoff and an easy decision to reject. This DC8 weighed 203,000 lbs way below it’s MTOW of 355,000 lbs.. I’ve flown the DC8-63 at both those weights. I have no doubt the crew would not have dragged the tail another 10,000 feet down the runway and not realizing a reject is the only option. It was max power takeoff at such a light weight that resulted in a split second fatal decision that resulted in the accident.
@@georgeconway4360 Well yes they didn't think that full power was need in addition Im aware the Angle of Attack would have caused an aerodynamic stall which occurred here but. What I'm saying is yes. Pilot error is at fault but the fact that there were rocks that jammed between the stabiliser and Elevator was out of their control. But to abort their aircraft was within.
@@RBMapleLeaf Full power was not needed, but Standard, FLEX, Reduced Power was unknown in 1970. The F/O was flying so he had his hand on the throttles to V1. The industry standard has changed with the Captain having his hand on the throttle for all takeoffs. I say if they had been heavy they would have stopped shortly after the nose came up. Once the power was reduced to idle the nose would have just down to the nose wheel on the runway.
Dude your videos are the best videos for aviation on youtube. I think the last few months I binged most of your vids. Please dont stop making them, ive learned so much from your channel! Would like more vids with the audio from the cockpit too, those are my favorite. Thanks so much for making these awesome videos!
Yes! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@marcosolo6491 ur a clown, millions seem to enjoy these videos despite no narration
@@marcosolo6491 wrong, clown
A bit of narration would be appreciated. I would read the NTSB reports if I had time to read. I like to listen to videos while I work.
@@marcosolo6491 Wheres your channel with all of the cockpit audio recordings?
As a totally unqualified viewer I nevertheless knew that the take off should have been "rejected". But my sympathy still remains just as much. In such bizarre incidents it is inevitable that sooner or later misjudgements occur. Very sad for their lost lives and the terrible grief of their families.
The DC-8 was susceptable to the problem of debris jambing the elevator, because it was a tab driven elevator. That is, there is no hydraulic power moving the elevator. A smaller tab at the trailing edge of the elevator is cable driven by the control column. The tab deflects in the opposite direction of the desired elevator movement and aerodynamically moves the elevator when the aircraft is moving forward thru the air.
I believe an elevator movement check at 40kts during the takeoff roll was implemented after this accident. It's been a long time and I just can't quite recall. Anyone?
Around the year 2000, there was a related accident of an Emery Air DC-8 at northern California airport. It was determined that the most likely cause was a bolt had fallen out of the control rod and clevis that drives the elevator tab, and the rod had fallen down into a position that jambed the tab down (up elevator command). The airplane had been in maintenance where a mechanic had disassembled the bolts and it was suspected that he failed to install cotter pins in the bolt/nut. The airplane took off and immediately had similar control problems as this TIA DC-8, eventually crashing in a car junkyard.
I am in total agreement! I don't care what the handbook, or anyone else said; I was definitely not leaving the ground.
@@quigley6674 I used to work for McDonnell Douglas so I know intimately how the shortcomings of the company lead to the deaths. I've personally seen the photos of body parts scattered on the ground in the field of debris of plane crashes and the excuses the corporate lawyers give as a reason why they think the company isn't at fault.
If a mechanic disassembles bolts then there damn sure should have been inspections to make sure all cotter keys were installed afterward. Inspections of maintenance. Failure to do so leads to deaths.
@@MrAbyneal qjwuw2ua4
@@MrAbyneal JR
As such an experienced captain, he should know an aircraft doing such things on its own and not responding to your flight controls should be an immediate cancel take off response, they had plenty of time during V1.
Runway 13R at JFK was an emergency landing runway for the space shuttle. It's almost 15,000' long, a bit under 3 miles. If I understand the video correctly, the uncommanded rotation started only 1600' down the runway, at 80 kts.
@@darrinsiberia They could deploy the spoilers to kill lift and keep the wheels on the ground so the brakes would be effective, and they could command the stabilizer trim down, if that would have worked with the stone. The DC-8 had 2 stabilizer actuation systems, hydraulic and electric motor, so they might have produced enough force.
after this tragedy, all DC8 crews were instructed to do 2 elevator control checks...one taxi check, then before taking the runway...even though the 8 had free floating elevators I don't know whether or not a boosted surface would have overpowered the FOD....the stretch 8s were a joy to fly, especially the 63
Most aircraft types still do control checks prior to takeoff. If the runway has a displaced threshold, and you're seated on the take-off direction side of the airport, you may notice an aircraft in take-off position performing elevator checks before they advance the throttles.
It's humbling to know that our life is so fragile, a piece of stone lodged in the wrong place can kill some people in seconds... RIP, this is truly sad... 😢
Some of these vintage jets airliners are so beautiful and interesting looking. Knowing I’m unlikely to ever see such old jets in person, it’s really neat seeing them recreated in such detail using modern simulator software.
as a non pilot, these videos always leave me in awe of pilots, who are able to process such an incredible amount of information, under immense stress, yet another brilliant video, thanks
Dang 48,000 flight hours taken down by a rock. I always wonder why they don’t immediately reject takeoff when control or speed is abnormal.
They normally do, it's just that when they don't it ends up on the news.
It’s so easy for us, me included, to judge or criticize someone for doing something that seems so obvious lol. Helps to remember that even if we got decades of driving experience, sometimes we still make stupid decisions on the road, least I do.
Maybe the lack of passengers made them more willing to risk the takeoff?
@@Coldinwis perfect analogy
Yeah not really criticizing, just genuine curiosity. I wonder if it happens sometimes that seemingly minor things occur during takeoff roll and they proceed anyway. I’m not a pilot.
How dumbell the pilots are to not reject take-off?
I'm so glad that training now has been much improved today!
Nice vid fam!!Keep going!,these types of vids really help me out to understand more about planes and go deeper into it
People questioning any blame being placed on the pilots. When an aircraft starts rotating on its own, at a speed that will not sustain flight, abort the takeoff right then and there. An experienced captain should have known better, but sometimes experience breeds overconfidence.
People get sloppy
That's exactly what happened, I was thinking the same thing. Abort the takeoff immediately, the worst that could happen is they would be delayed. I have known overconfident pilots before, and one of them is dead now because of a critical error during takeoff, where his engine was not developing full power, but he tried to takeoff anyway ("it'll be fine", he said over the radio). He stalled shortly after takeoff and spun into the ground. It's not worth it! Just abort if you have the chance to!
Overconfidence or not, an uncommanded nose-up condition is an immediate abort provided they have not gone beyond V¹. Hundreds of lives are in the hands of the operators in the flight deck. If you're driving your vehicle and it decides its going to start turning on its own, you're not going to say "it's fine" and keep driving. In the end, this is the fault of the port authority for (1) allowing a runway under maintenence and repair to be active while (2)not being able to "keep up" with sweeps of debris which is a huge risk to departing and arriving aircraft.
@@SedatedByLife I would put before all that the pilot flying continuing the takeoff when he had no pitch control!
Here's your friendly reminder that absolutely nobody cares if you're "first"....
As much sad as these events are, this channel is superb!
Your episodes are truly amazing and well-researched ... so sad to see these accidents replayed but it is quite fascinating and much appreciated.
Some of these texts are word for word from Wikipedia. That is not I would call "well researched", it is basically high school assignment level plagiarism.
@@paveladamek3502 👉The guy that makes these videos to inform AND educate us does an EXCEPTIONAL job at doing so. The time he took to recreate them all had to have been time consuming, and still, they are better than I have seen short of the "Mayday: Air Crash Investigation" series, the BEST here on RUclips. He doesn't HAVE to make these videos, he does so bcuz he wants others to KNOW EXACTLY what happened and WHY!!!🤔
💥WE SHOULD BE THANKING HIM!!!💯👏💁💥
I love this channel and been watching it for years. Excellent coverage. The only thing I would suggest is to leave up the banner that announces how many perished just a little longer. Out of respect. And their sacrifice is a contributing factor to aircraft safety. Kindest regards and keep up the great content!
Yes I agree - I had to pause the video several times to read how many had perished - A Great channel though !
+1. The lost souls frame wasn't shown for long enough, out of respect at least.
I had never heard of this accident before. Thanks for making this video clearly explaining the details with good animation.
a fucking rock. this is some final destination shit right here
agreed now all planes need to put weight sensors on the flaps and wings
God rest the souls of those 9 crew members. What a blessing there were no other passengers. Yes, with as much flying experience as those two pilots had under their belts, it is rather unbelievable that one of them did not abort the flight.
@Stevi Robinson are you ok you been putting anger comments all over here? Just concerned. We've all been there.
@Stevi Robinson Go away evil creature.
there were 11...eight FAs and three in the cockpit
Ironically the ones with more experience usually end up making the rookie mistakes, because they think they know better or they're biased because every other flight has been fine before this
@@flightlevelfouronezero147 No, there were 7 F/As And 4 Cockpit crew. The Navigator may have or not been in the cockpit. This was a positioning leg and the Navigator was not required for this leg. His job started on the next scheduled leg Dulles to London. None of the Supplemental airlines had male F/As in 1970. Boys in the cockpit girls in the back. Runway 13R was at least 13,000’ long in 1970. I believe it is now over 14,000’. Normal takeoff run at 203,000 lbs would be around 3000’. Stopping was never an issue.
Beautifully produced and very well explained, as always. Thank you.
Your dedication is amazing!! Proud to be a subscriber 🇺🇸
Yes, it's great but why misplaced patriotism?
Absolutely tragic 😭😭😭
Fantastic upload. Thanks TFL 🖤
Heart-breaking - 11 lives snuffed out in 17 seconds because of 1 stone and poor split-second decision-making
@@kevindoran4938 Very good point. And I have immense respect for police officers and other professionals who find themselves in these situations - extremely tough jobs.
Loving the consistent uploads! I wouldn’t mind seeing a channel sponsor on the vids either, you do good work!
Back in the early 1970's when I was in the Navy stationed on Midway Island, we had weekly "FOD Walkdowns" (FOD = Foreign Object Damage) covering the taxiways and runways. We all picked up any stones we saw and put them in a bag that we carried.
What is it about human psychology that leads experienced pilots to continue to attempt a takeoff in an aircraft that is obviously not acting normally?
that's the right question - there's something wrong with the training of pilots if they are more reluctant to abort a takeoff - then risk taking off and falling out of the sky
probably not wanting to get yelled at for keeping the plane on the ground longer than necessary and wasting money, you'd be surprised what stress from higher ups can make people do
@@livs9961 nah, that’s ridiculous. If you can’t act in the name of safety then get the hell out of the flight deck
@@Prec-it8nv i mean yeah that's how it should be but we live in a capitalist society and reality does not care about what is actually best
@@livs9961 when it comes to something such as life or death, screw society and the company
That was crazy. Thanks for putting this up. Can't believe an experienced crew didn't abort earlier.
A lot of these replies come from people that were trained in todays environment. This happened in 1970, over 50 years ago! There was no Flying pilot and monitoring pilot back then. It was Captain, copilot and FE. You cannot apply todays traning standards to 1970. There have been a lot of changes. Ask me, I flew proffessionally from 1965 to 2018. From a Martin 202 to a Citation X. With a Heavy in between!
Damn!! What a shame. I feel bad for all involved, directly and/or indirectly. RIP to the crew.
Looks similar to Emory 17… though Emory was a human factor, while this sounds more like an FOD. Wasn’t expecting a rock on the taxiway to bring down a whole DC86… Nice video, clear explanation of a stunning investigation result.
Emery..which everytime I think about them, makes me think of Emerill the cook....
Great video as always but I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one who barely manages double digit FPS in P3D around New York.
The way you reenact these tragedies with the flight simulator is truly fascinating! Thanks for sharing!
How sad the Pilots did not abort the take-off at the first sign of trouble. Rest in Peace 3 Pilots and 8 flight attendants. ✝
Kinda like the fine air accident at Miami just a little different
True
I was a kid in the 1960's and 1970's. It seems like before about 1990 or 2000 there were so many more plane crashes than we hear about today.
Really enjoy your videos and the time and effort you put into the production. Super great channel. Thank you for all your hard work for us!
He should thank us. He is making HUGE dollars for playing a video game, lol.
Ditto. Dude does a tremendous job at this.
Pilot can't even control the plane while its still on the ground and then drag the bottom of the tail section for almost a quarter of a mile on the runaway. "Alright Ron, let's get this thing in the air". Sounds about right.
All that experience in the cockpit and they didn't abort. He even said he couldn't control it prior to lifting off.
Makes you wonder if the lack of passengers caused them to be more careless? Cargo pilots often don’t worry bout soft landings or avoiding turbulence as much as commercial pilots do….just a guess
@@Coldinwis a long takeoff with the nosed pitched up prematurely and that abnormal condition throughout the entire takeoff with no pitch control and you try and fly it off anyways ? It's kinda bizarre for them not to abort. Not sure what they were thinking or why.
@@PJHEATERMAN The DC8-63 was a hot rod at their weight of around 203,000 lbs.. They made a fatal mistake. Had they rejected they would have a good story, they didn’t and died.
@@georgeconway4360 No wait! Their command kept saying No! no! no! Every 2 seconds and they still took off?! Must have been one of those 🥴 drunken days! 😵 RIP🙏🏼
@@PJHEATERMAN That is what I was wondering. Was something on with the pilot? Wasn't truly paying attention? He had enough experience.
So glad I came across this channel. Great content.
Haunting sad music is haunting. Excellent videos as usual!
How sad. Hoping to resolve an issue while in the air was the mistake. There were three voices to be heard, yet none of them were used. Sorry for the families, and an thankful the plane had no passengers.
I can't speak about how it was in 1970 when it came to aborts, but for the last 30 years at the major airline I flew for, after 80 knots and prior to V1 (go-no go speed) you aborted for the following 4 things: engine fire, failure, windshear warning, or the airplane won't fly (a controllability issue). Obviously in this case the last scenario applies, yet the Captain elected to continue the takeoff. Puzzling??
I'm understanding the loose gravel . I'm understanding the hours of service . Put the to together something missing .
I missed that intro song. Thanks for bringing that back!
So sad. The moment the aircraft started the uncommanded rotation at 80 knots the pilots should have aborted the take off. It was apparent that something was not working as intended.
I am not 100% sure of that explanation. Had a stone lodged in the surface, the pilot would have been heard saying it is stuck when he pressed the control forward. There were, at that time, direct mechanical linkages between the yoke and the flight control surface. It is plausible that the stone could have ended up there during the crash.
Oh man, I don't know why I'm binge watching these videos weeks before I go into flight school. But damn, I feel sorry for these people and their families.
Hope it goes well for you
Ur channel is best among flights crashes n accidents watched many in a row addicted for days continuously
Always terrible to hear about the loss of life in commercial aviation and the military as well but it fascinates me how the people at the NTSB find the smallest details that lead to crashes. I would like to see a show on how they sort thru all the mangled aluminum to find these clues and causes.....
Air DIsasters is a show that does that.
Imagine being a passenger waiting for this ferry flight only to hear the plane you would eventually be on had crashed at takeoff.
This tragedy confirms the need to design new passenger airliners with shorter and wider fuselage and narrower wing span. Vertical takeoff and landing capability and ejection sections for passengers are needed in case of a fast aircraft failure and crash. How these new aircraft will be designed depends on manufacturer's open mind to research and development based on safety instead of fuel economy..
Not the problem here. It is the crew
I worked almost a year on DC-8 stretches and the pilots were really competent in getting the plane to climb without hitting the long tail! In short, big BRAVO to all these pilots !!! 😯
F.O.D. The most feared letters on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. it can kill people on the ground, too. good vid, as usual.
Seems like pushing the power up to max may have helped but when weird things like this happen it’s so aweful. This is a helpful video of when to abort.
I love this channel but it makes me very sad when people die-esp. the pilots who had so many hours & successful training. I was engaged to 3 pilots & I know what hard work they put in. 💔😢😢😢🙏🏻😩
Hello sheryl, nice you got on here.
My new favorite youtube channel !!!!!!!!!
The inspectors do deserve a lot of respect!
"Abnormally slow takeoff speed" .. should have been enough right there, well before any tail strike. My heart goes out to the flight attendants on board who made no mistakes and still lost their lives.
How dumbell the pilots are to not reject take-off?
Dima, would you kindly do everybody a favor and not post the same reply to every blessed comment?
You received many answers already, surely one of them should satisfy your... Curiosity.
May god rest all their souls on peace.such a tragic accident.i send my condolences to their families.xx.
Hello, I rarely post because I’m not a pilot, but fascinated with how far we have come in technology with safe commercial flying.
So forgive my dumb questions,
1. Was the aircraft loaded up with fuel, and assume it wasn’t hauling cargo with the type aircraft?
Wouldn’t think so on such a short flight.
2. Was slower roll outs normal back then?
I mean that all happened before the tail strike, resulting in the asphalt rock lodged in the right elevator, and right horizontal stabilizer?
I’m just wondering what caused the performance of the aircraft to be so sluggish, being underweight, and with 3 experienced pilots.
Just seems like even back 52 years ago, there’s got to be a point to where abort takeoff should have been performed in a safely manner.
Anyways I’m the opposite of a aviation expert, the only thing I’ve flown is a DGI drown.
In another life, I think I would have loved to try becoming a pilot, but now at 40, I love understanding the great saves obviously, and feel sick when we lose our great pilots even 52 years ago.
Another great video TFC, as usual, but this one sad, losing 2 stud pilots, a engineer, and those poor 8 flight attendants, that hurts.
Anyways god bless the countless professionals responsible for all the safety changes, updates, and technology saving lives in 2022.
1. For a short ferry flight, the plane would have probably only carried fuel for the expected duration of that flight, plus whatever legally required reserves. The plane was a passenger type, not a freighter.
2. I think that first generation jets like the DC-8 and B-707 actually had a faster V1 and Vr speed than modern types.
The elevator was jammed by the stone before the tail strike. The fully deflected elevator is what caused the tail strike. It somehow fell into the gap between the elevator leading edge and the rear stabilizer during the take-off run. Possibly when the F/O did the control surface checks prior to or during taxiing. When the plane gained sufficient speed for the control surfaces to begin to become effective, that's what caused the uncommanded rotation.
@@mikeprevost8650 Too bad these aircraft did not have caution lights to indicate a control surface far away from its commanded position.
Tragic situation.
Even the brightest and best cannot think of everything always. Life happens.🙏
Freakish bad luck. Very sad. But the captain could have aborted the takeoff. A very hard lesson learned, to demonstrate to trainee pilots.
I was hired as a DC-8 copilot by TIA in March of 1976. The company engineers and the chief pilot all felt that since it was next to impossible for jet blast to kick stones high enough to land up there the possibility that it was thrown up there by a bored ramp worker was far more likely.
Aw, My God, what a horrid thought - I never would have considered this possibility, but I am sure it could have happened, as you speculate here. RIP to those eleven souls lost on that day. Cheers, and thanks for a solid observation, which I am sure, was not highlighted in any later reports - if mentioned at all.
I hope the airport people know that they are important and how much people lives are in their hands when doing work on the planes and the pilots and I value you guys and I pray that you take priority and care about the job done
When the aircraft began to rotate without being promoted to that’s when the order to abort the takeoff should have been given maybe? I’m no pilot but it seems like at the slightest sign of something wrong the flight should be cancelled immediately
Good point. I wonder if simulators these days do these surprise incidents to see how a pilot would react? Possibly these days pilots are more inclined to abort?
@@josephj6521 idk but they probably should but I never understood why a pilot or pilots would have a problem and decide to not cancel,the thing is theirs far less room for error in the sky and an accident could and probably will be fatal
@@josephj6521 they’re trained very heavily on safety and procedures like that
That’s a true David vs. Goliath disaster…. Unbelievable.
Honestly scary that a little stone could take down that giant plane and all those lives.
When I watch these things, I don’t want to go on a plane anymore.
I've only flown to Chicago from Atlanta and back. I was scared to death. I took my anti-anxiety pills before getting on.
Great job as you always do. And THANK YOU so much for putting “Deadly” in the title which allows me the chance to watch when I’m prepared for dealing with the outcome. Sorry if I appear to be a Snowflake….. I’m personally sensitive to airplane accidents.
Videos actually have multiple titles/thumbnails that are shown to different people to test which ones receive the most attention. On my and many peoples ends, this video's title doesn't contain 'deadly.'
@@axo9813 oh wow!! I’m pretty certain when I clicked on this video I would see that people died. I remembering thinking “it’s early enough in my day where I can process the events before I need to go to sleep”. Now the word “deadly” doesn’t show up. Thanks for your reply!
@@axo9813 - Oh …. Now I see “Deadly Stone” at 0:29. Not the same, but still gave me a chance to pause and watch later.
Honestly… I’m not a snowflake. It’s just my father and sister died in a plane crash back in 1983.
One reason I watch with intrigue is from losing my company’s President and four others 5 May ‘79 …. And the President of our company was also my co-founder and older brother. Haven’t flown General Avi. since and never will. They hit wind shear in our Queen Aire that I regularly was on as co-pilot…. Fortunately not that Saturday morning.
Rip to the victims
When I was in USAF. We use to walk down the runway looking for FOD. You be surprise what we found on the ground.
Condoms?
LoL Ross Brown 😎😆😏😑
@@rossbrown6641 ,😂😂
I had never even heard of this one. What a terrible thing to happen. Talk about freak accidents.
"I can't control it..." Well, let's take off anyway, should be fine once we're in the air.
How dumbell the pilots are to not reject take-off?
@@Cadence-qt2ux There are procedures in place, but they were not followed here. If you haven't achieved x-speed and y-rate of climb by z-amount of runway, you reject. You might end up in the berm, but you'll most likely be alive.
Those DC-8 63F were very large heavy aircraft
My grandmother's sister was an air traffic controller in the 1970s and 80s. I cannot imagine the stress and backbone, not to mention the intelligence and knowledge she must have had, to be one of the first women to hold such an important position. To my knowledge, she never experienced any kind of crash or difficulty. These people are heroes. I think of it every time I am privileged to fly.
Mind boggling to think that a stone could bring down a modern jetliner...
This was in the 70s, I believe.
I flew on a TransInternational Airlines (TIA) DC-8 back in 1976 to Kadena Air Base, Okinawa, Japan. I decided if I had to fly back on one... I'd WALK back to the States. What ticked me off was... TIA had brand new 747's they used for cargo. But, they used the old DC-8's for Military Charters, because it made them more money that way. I didn't have to walk back. One of the TIA DC-8's lost an engine a little more than halfway to Japan from Alaska. I don't mean it stopped running, I mean it fell off... fell off... fell the F' off. It made it to Japan, but the families raised such a stink about it, Congress decided only US Flag airlines would be used for Military Charters.
I have never served in the military, but I greatly respect those who do. However, what I do not respect is the government that mistreats our military personnel. There was a RUclips comment that I read a few months ago that stated how when U.S. military personnel were boarding a military aircraft, if they wanted a meal while on board the aircraft, then they had to pay for it.
The government providing free food to those who serve is the least that they can do. Of course, needlessly risking soldiers is an even worse situation, which makes me wonder who the real enemy is.
@@Eternal_Tech I flew back to the States on the first US flagged charter. A United Airlines cattle car. A 747 they took the first class seats and piano and bar out of. The capacity was 540... I repeat 540 passenger. When we landed at the Air Force Base in California... it took over SIX HOURS for them to clear everyone through customs. Now, the Military Charters fly in and out of Oakland International, since THEY are equipped to handle that many people at once.
When the VA informed me I had lung cancer, it was explained that it was Stage 2, and I would ONLY need surgery... nothing else. It took almost three months to "fit me into" the surgery time slot. it was discovered in the operating room it was then Stage 4. Had the surgery, then was informed I would need nine weeks of radiation treatments... and chemo after that Some of the cancer was too close to my esophagus, to get all of it with surgery. Back in the hospital because my esophagus was inflamed from the radiation. After that, I managed to endure two of four chemo treatments. Horrible side effects. Couldn't keep my meds down. Couldn't keep anything but pudding cups down for a month. On the third trip, I was ready to tell them the hell with it, I'll just die... but my white blood count was 10 times what it should have been, so the doctor postponed it a week. Same thing the next week. Same thing the third week, except I had went from 189 pounds... to 138 pounds. Back in the hospital I went. They discovered the cancer had hit both adrenal glands. I am now on a different type of chemo, so none of the horrible side effects. BUT, I will have to have the chemo treatments the rest of my life to keep the cancer in remission. And, I now have to take steroids the rest of my life... since my body no longer produces adrenaline. Thanks VA... thanks a lot. Their thanks for ten years of service in the military.
Another charter and cargo operator using DC8-63CF's was Arrow Air, based in Miami. In December 1985 one of these aircraft crashed on takeoff from Gander, Newfoundland killing 248 members of the US Army.
@@johncantwell8216 And, I'm sure if the "government" had looked into the safety record of Arrow Air, it would have been an exact copy of TIA... horrible. The FAA has NOT been doing its job for quite a while. One look at Allegiant Air, the "fourteenth-largest commercial airline in North America", would prove it. Allegiant Air has THE WORST safety rating of ANY US flagged airline. Their fleet should have been grounded, and the company run out of business, a long, long time ago. Their aircraft are constantly having emergency landings at the wrong airport, and delayed take-offs due to mechanical issues. In one case, a flight was calling out to land in the mid-west. They were told the airport was closed for an airshow, and the notice had been sent to all the airlines six months prior. Allegiant still scheduled the flight into it. The aircraft explained they HAD to land there... because they did not have sufficient fuel to fly ANYWHERE else. The FAA REQUIRES all commercial aircraft to have a sufficient fuel reserve on-board, for emergencies like a closed airport. Allegiant doesn't bother with such things. In another case, a friend was flying from Toledo OH to Orlando FL to come see me. He called to tell me the flight had been delayed one hour. I was sitting in Florida watching the local news, and they were warning people the flight from Orlando to Toledo was delayed for mechanical problems. A "one hour delay", and the aircraft was still sitting in Florida!!! Come to find out, the aircraft was flying from Orlando to Toledo to Orlando to Toledo continuously. ZERO time for ANY maintenance. Between the FAA and the TSA... I stopped flying a LONG time ago.
@@donf3877 I'm sure glad I don't have to fly anymore...so many terrible things going on: air rage, etc.
"For want of a (horseshoe) nail, the battle was lost}..." - for want of a stone clearance here...
I flew on this plane in 1969 to Santa Maria, Azores for fuel, then on to Frankfurt am Main.
Huge monster. DC8-63.
Famous last words "Lets take it off!"
The last words were the first officer yelling “ We’re going to die!”
However horrific this was, I'm grateful that the ntsb determined that this poor crew were not at fault R.I.P.
The NTSB did not find the crew not at fault. In fact it blamed the pilot and first officer for not aborting the takeoff when they could and trying to continue a take off while the aircraft was dragging on the ground. Which video did you even watch?
@@patrickbrinkmeier2691 Hi Patrick, if what you say is correct, great I stand corrected. But really no need to be indignant dude.
@@paulgrogan8032...Hi Paul, I'm sorry if I came across as ignorant. I guess I was just surprised you made that claim as this video itself towards the end talks about how the NTSB found the flight crew at fault for not aborting the takeoff when they started having all the issues. The video said the NTSB found they should have as soon as the aircraft auto rotated on it's own at only 80 knots and began dragging along the ground. The NTSB said the aircraft had not reached the no abort point and the takeoff should have been cancelled. The crews in action and lack of appropriate measures for almost 10 seconds after a catastrophic failure event during takeoff is why the aircraft crashed and they died. I of course still feel sorry for them and their families but this accident while caused by something beyond their control ( the rock stuck in the stabilizer fins ) was still preventable. A pilot should always have his exact point of no return clearly known on any takeoff.
As far as I know they keep airfields as clean as possible just because of accidents like these which they learn from.
The crew absolutely is at fault. If any one of them could have been smart enough to reject takeoff early on this could have been prevented. Honestly, the stone caused the actual crash, but the true root of the cause is these pilots. Thank god they didn’t touch another aircraft after
I'm grateful that the photo of the video was misleading because it showed it going into a building. Prayers for the families.
Seen so many videos and i can't imagine how those ppl on board feel and think when they realise that they are about to die...... My God, it's terryfing.....
How the hell did the stone get that high on the stabilizer
Probably when the tail of the plane was skidding it was pinched or otherwise thrown onto the elevator which is so bizarre and unfortunate. Then for it to just sit there and slowly slide down (as opposed to just flying off and away) as the elevator pitched and it reached the horizontal stabilizer at the leading edge gap at just the perfect timing to lodge in there!!! It's like something that would not happen again in billions of take offs it seems!!! Reaching that conclusion was kind of brilliant of the investigators working backwards, reverse engineering it made it the only explanation I suppose as all other surface controls were aligned properly!!!
I don't understand why they didn't reject the take off? This should be done by every pilot when things aren't going as they should be.
Thank you flight channel.
FOD. 😔 Simple, yet deadly.
ah yes. i almost thought the pilots would not have been blamed this time.
I love the stall warning on this one.
Perhaps when the nose lifted early, the captain attributed that to light weight. That would not explain the other abnormalities, but it's human nature under time pressure to attach to a theory that explains at least some of the problem, and to downplay the facts that are not explained by the working hypothesis. If light weight was the true cause and only cause of the unexpected early rotation, then continuing the takeoff would be reasonable. Failure of yoke input to lower the nose should have rejected that working hypothesis, but by that point, the captain was "pounding a square peg into a round hole."
The captain wasn't on the controls, and it's not clear whether the F/O ever communicated that his yoke was unresponsive.
@@mikeprevost8650 the FO said "I can't control it" and the captain said "let's take it off" (rather than "STOP"). So the captain was aware and ultimately responsible. I'm not criticizing him though. All disasters are bad but this one was especially bad because these fine, highly competent professional pilots had no fault other than being human.
Should have aborted the takeoff at the tail strike! Pilot error.
You can already expect the worst when you see it's about a DC-8. Here's your stat for the day:
"As of October 2015, the DC-8 had been involved in 146 incidents, including 84 hull-loss accidents, with 2,255 fatalities."
Yup. They're certainly death traps.
I just googled this and apparently, the Boeing equivalent, the 707, also had 147 crashes and 2752 fatalities.
@@yasminbarry7941 Good point, however there were twice as many 707s built, and they seemed to have a longer service life.
@@hrdley911 : OK. I see ....
Interesting facts about the DC-8. It’ll be good to see the percentage of hull losses of all passenger aircraft. I bet the DC-10 would be up there too.