Avoid my Expensive Cross Border Flying Mistake!
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Cross Border Flying - A comprehensive breakdown.
I'm sharing all the links, phone numbers and my check lists; as well as detailed notes additional pertinent info you need to know, to #fly across the border.
Part of the CBP "compliance process" was to show that I'd improved my system to mitigate making mistakes again - so that's what this episode is about.
UPDATE: My original draft of the text to fit here was over 8,000 characters long, and RUclips has a 5,000 character limit, so instead of editing it down, I moved it to a dedicated post on the Flight Chops website here:
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FLIGHT CHOPS DISCLAIMER:
I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 20 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
Great Content. I used to work the Ramp at Harv’s air Steinbach 15 yrs ago. While training I wanted to push myself to get new experiences so I did my commercial Xcountry into the US. It took me a lot of reading to figure out all the steps I needed to cross the border. After I did it successfully I became the go to guy when other students wanted to cross. It’s about time the streamline the cross boarder process. Thanks again!
I still don't understand why the US makes everything so difficult when flying across the border to Canada. I show up at the border in a car and I'm across no issue. I show up in a boat, tie up at the customs dock, make a phone call to customs and it's no issue. If I want to do the 10 minute flight from Friday Harbor to Victoria in my RV it's like I'm trying to smuggle people out (or in the reverse way) of the US on a 747 to North Korea and require all sorts of advance notice things.
Yeah... It is what it is.
I think it got a lot harder after 9/11.
We didn't even need a passport to drive across before.
And didn't TFRs first become a thing after 2001?
You'd think AOPA would be all over making this more streamlined.
I, too, frequently fly to Canada from the States in my RV and agree with the absurdity of the process (mainly the US). AND, it would be great if the US did a reciprocal agreement on Basic Med with Canada, so we don't have to keep doing a 3rd class medical.
@@FlightChops TFRs first became a thing after 2001? Absolutely not. On January 25, 1971, the FAA issued the Temporary Flight Restrictions Final Rule (36 FR 1467). This rule amended 14 CFR 91.91 (since re-codified as 14 CFR § 91.137) to provide for the issuance of a Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) that would implement a TFR over a designated disaster or hazard area.
Have they been much more prominent since 2001 sure.
@@paulbrunner1818 so maybe I'm missing something, but in looking at the Basic Med checklist, to me it seems like a 3rd class medical with an AME is easier.
Maybe I missed it? Like you Steve my aircraft is 'owned' by a corporation that I own; I've had a US agents ask if I had a permission letter from the owner to fly the aircraft across the border. So I now have an authorisation letter, written by me that says it's OK for me to fly the plane... Paperwork.
I actually travel with the articles of incorporation, which show I'm the owner of the company. I consider that to be a part of the documents I need to travel with generally, but it might have been a good point to specifically address this - I can add that the the expanded text info that is linked in the description.
The biggest farce in the US is this thing called the Paperwork Reduction Act. LOL
We learned from our mistakes that will cause great stress. But I can see why a list can make a difference. Thumbs up 👍
Yes! Thank you!
I've set up customs for years in private aviation. The frustrating thing is alot of ports have their own rules and oddities. Those airport sheets have been great.
Hey! Glad you found Art! Great guy!
And, yes, US CBP is the worst. Like you, I've done dozens of border crossings. Every single problem I've ever had was returning to the US and, in my case, their mistakes. But the fact they they were the ones that screwed up didn't temper their response any. I also was threatened with fines and the people were just a-holes.
We used to go through Canada for years. It was enjoyable, but we’ve done all the routes and seen enough. Now we route KCLM-PAKT to eliminate customs, CBP aircraft sticker, EAPIS, phone calls, firearm registration and fees, credit card international transaction fees and needing a passport.
File a flight plan, get a border crossing xponder code and don’t have to talk to anybody enroute unless IFR is necessary. Life is good again.
sure yes, but if you wanna stop and visit either country... you've gotta deal with this process.
@ True.
That airport with the runway halfway in the US and halfway in Canada is very interesting. In WW2 the US first wanted to stay neutral but still supply planes to the allies, to do this they flew the planes to the US part of that runway, then they towed them over to Canada, then they started again from Canada. Piney Pinecreek is one of 6 of those.
Yet ANOTHER subscription. jeez. Just crossed national borders 4 times in the last week on a trip to Bahamas. Used Leidos; easy activation process. I make EAPIS easy by editing previously saved manifests.
Man, I love flying in Europe. For the Schengen area there are basically no border checks at all and all I need is the flight plan. And even non-Schengen like UK or Switzerland just requires a quite brief online/mail notice going through customs airports. Never had an issue.
Used FlashPass for years! It’s the greatest.
Same for me, three years for now and always works great!
Excellent collab with FlashPass!!
Thanks, FlashPass is awesome.
Thank you for this! Maybe now I'll work up the courage to give cross-border flying a try.
I’m glad you are feeling inspired - take your time planning and you'll be alright.
Most informative Steve - quite a learning experience.
Glad it was helpful!
Arturo is awesome!
In case anyone is curious, there are actually 6 airports that straddle the Canada-US Boarder. At least one of which, the Coutts/Ross International Airport, was used to circumvent the Neutrality Acts of the 1930s to supply planes to England by landing planes on the US side and having civilians (and in some cases horses) pull them across the border to Canada, after which they were flown to the UK.
Yes I heard this. I’m making a full episode about the crossing at that airport, so I can add more context to that one. Are you able to point me to more sources?
@@FlightChops Unfortunately, no. Like you, I've only heard about these circumvention episodes, but never seen a documentary or archival data on the topic. I only found out about Coutss/Ross' role via their Wiki page, which has scant info. If I was to go looking deeper, the first places I'd start are the Air Force Historical Research Agency or the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. Other than that, afraid I can't be of much help. It's an intriguing part of aviation history that isn't well documented. Maybe it's due for it's own documentary?
wow, lock haven . . . i thought that piper plant was closed. my whole family is from there. i used to love sitting on my aunts porch and watch planes take off and land. it is what started my interest in aviation.
It's a great little airport - And yes, the plant is closed as far as I know, but there is an amazing Piper Aircraft museum there now.
I've been on an email string for the past month and a half regarding exactly this (pretty sure the event you're speaking of came up actually). Very glad to get some guidance on this as it will be me doing this in the new year. I do NOT have time to be fighting over a $5K fine.
If this is your first time I'm glad to hear you're preparing for it now
- it really is a lot easier than trying to figure it out in a hurry.
Flightchops is the best ❤
Thanks!
An ATP rated friend of mine used to say that "People think that kerosene makes planes fly. That's false. Paper makes planes fly :) "
In the 135 world we tell the pax, "No plane can fly until the weight of the paperwork equals the gross weight of the aircraft!"
It looks scary at first. Then you do it and you wonder what all the fuss was about.
When I flew out of Langley CYNJ I always cleared Customs at my first opportunity, Bellingham KBLI (they go over the plane with geiger counters too). On my last cross-border flight the briefer was covering somebody else's shift and was familiar with the Texas Gulf Coast but hazy on the Pacific Northwest. I filed KFHR-KORS-CZBB, knowing I'd be talking to Victoria Terminal most of the way anyway.
They use the geiger counters at EVERY CBP port.
@@CanardBoulevard Yes - my buddy Dave fly our museum's T6/Harvard across from Windsor to KDET one time and the guard really perked up when the thing went off 20 feet away from the airplane. It was apparently the first time he'd ever seen it happen - the radium in the WWII era cockpit was enough to be detected.
I work for a major US charter operator. Making sure EAPIS is always correctly submitted and landing rights at US ports is always stressful even for seasoned professionals
I have flown back and forth between the US and Canada, and the thing that killed me was the CBP agent walking around the plane with a Geiger counter before I was allowed to exit the plane.
Yes, it does seem kinda silly... The guards always do it with such low energy like its a prop that they know will never do anything... 😑
BUT my buddy Dave fly our museum's T6/Harvard across from Windsor to KDET one time and the guard really perked up 😳 when the thing went off 20 feet away from the airplane. It was apparently the first time he'd ever seen it happen - the radium in the WWII era cockpit was enough to be detected. 😂
Every CBP office is different, and do things in slightly different ways. An important message you didn't mention is that many of the CBP offices are NOT staffed on weekends - so if you are planning to land in the US on a weekend, you need to call the Friday before to obtain your prior permission to land - they will then call out an agent to meet you on the weekend at your scheduled time. They will also give you a special number to call if your landing plans change due to weather or any other reason, so they don't send an officer out when you're no longer going to be arriving. I went over this and other aspects of cross-border flying from a US-based pilot's perspective in my how-to video: ruclips.net/video/WCFmOzq5Wok/видео.html
I too use a checklist like shown here, to make sure I don't miss a step.
Thanks, yeah - I didn't get specific about weekends (and several other things that could have easily diverted the into the weeds) because I was trying to make less than 20 minute long video :P. That said, I'll add this clarification to the ~8,000+ character blog post on the website when I edit that later.
But my point about making the "initial call" MORE than 24 hours prior kinda covers this issue...
If you try to call on a Saturday for a Sunday arrival at a CBP office that isn't staffed on weekends, you're probably not going to get an answer at all; and if you call on Friday for the same request, you'll get "not gonna happen" for the answer - but at least in both cases you'll know.
@@FlightChops I get it! I tried to cover everything in my video, and that video ended up almost an hour long!
I've been told when calling more than a couple days in advance for a non-weekend trip; "call back closer to the trip." I've not been denied for a weekend trip, but again - it depends on the CBP office. As you mentioned in the video - every office is different. I've once had to go WAY out of my way on a trip home that got changed at the last minute, because my usual port of entry isn't staffed on weekends and I had to go to one that was (Port Huron). Extra bonus: Port Huron has no landing fees!
I've absolutely been denied for a weekend trip. I had one officer just cut me off mid sentence when I said my trip was aiming for a Saturday arrival - he just said "Not gonna happen!" and ended the call fairly abruptly with out even discussing options... But anyway... I'm curious as to what sort of retention you got on an hour long video covering this topic - you can email if you'd rather stay private regarding back end stats. fligthchops at gmail dot com.
There are some airports in the US that require more than 24 hours notice. Always good to check on the fact sheet well in advance.
Yep.
That’s why I always make my initial call more than 24 hours in advance while I’m planning.
It is a good idea to file the eAPIS well in advance even if your intention is to land at a 7 day/24 hour customs operation. When flight planning and submitting the usual day before for a flight into Greensboro from London this spring the notification came back that it was denied so I had to rethink the flight planning completely before choosing another destination, filing and follow up phone call for Landing Rights. No explanation of why. I am assuming there was going to be a pop up TFR but I did not follow up.
On a side note when flying back into Florida from the Bahamas or Caribbean you usually have to do everything the day before to several of the customs offices due to limited hours and required hours in advance phone call for Landing Rights. Some open as late as 10am so it usually doesn’t work well for most.
Thanks for sharing.
This is fair feedback, but I'd still avoid actually filing the eapis more than 24-48 hours prior simply because I can't be sure my arrival time will work due to weather in a single engine non-fiki aircraft. That said, I do make my "initial call" to scope out the situation well in advance.
Regardless, if there's going to be a pop upTFR, how much notice do they give anyway?
Rest in peace Jr. You were well loved.
Thanks for watching to the end 🙏🏻
Going to Canada ... CANPASS ... returing to the US ... PAININTHEASS.
Aw, man! You were in Houston and I didn't even try to go to the expo.
Ah well… I was posting about it on the socials - you gotta follow more closely 😂
Canadian penalty, “sorry”
The most frustrating thing is that both countries come up with this crap, make it mandatory for every transportation mode (even though it’s unsuited in some way for every single one) then most of the time don’t even check on it when you cross. Every now and then you get the extra guys in the typical CIA/DEA “khakis and ball cap” uniform manning the pre-exit border point and causing hours-long delays, or the Canadian side is on a perpetual work-to-rule because they’re butthurt about something. That’s just on land crossings.
That is an obscenely excessive fine.
Yeah.
It was not a fun time to get that email.
Make pretty frequent flights between US and Canada- E-APIs isn’t terrible, even on a phone. It takes a bit of focus the first time but you can save your flights for future recall. I don’t think it’s necessary to spend $15 per trip for an intermediary app.
I did my first trip to Canada back in August and was surprised at how easy it was. AOPA’s guide was wonderful, and while I did have a couple of “stupid American” moments, it really was an easy trip. Had no problems with Customs on the return trip either, they were really relaxed. Looking forward to going back in the spring.
What were they scanning the plane with?
geiger counter.
I got the same email when flying home to Newfoundland from OshKosh. I got distracted with issues at the departure airport and forgot to departure file eAPIS. It’s currently under review if they will actually charge me 5000.00. It was a pure mental brain fart but they take it serious.
Contact me on the Flashpass website chat. I might be able to help.
Arturo was a great help guiding me through responding to it. Hopefully you're able to resolve your case too.
Human and drug traffickers crossing the border: NBD.
Random Canuk crossing the border for wholesome reasons: YOU CAN"T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you know what’s the status of border crossing to Mexico with an experimental? It would be great to make a video on that type of crossing
As far as I understand, there is no difference between certified or experimental as long as you do the paperwork as described in this video.
I’ll get Arturo to weigh in if I’m wrong about that.
Are there any formalities required for a flight beginning and ending in Canada but overflying the US? I'm thinking of the airports which straddle the border, but also airports like Creston Valley, BC, where circuits could easily cross the border.
You need to be on a flight plan with a unique squawk code and in communication with ATC to overfly US airspace without landing there. No EApis needed.
Do you have that backwards? Ideally fly VFR but if IFR make sure your have squawk code?
No. You'll have a code for sure if you fly IFR; this is one of the reasons I prefer to just file IFR every time.
But if you fly VFR you have to remember that you need a squawk code to cross the border, so you have to actively seek out flight following and be sure you're issued a code.
@FlightChops gotcha. I misinterpreted "ideally fly IFR" as "ideally fly IMC." Nice video and content.
What was that goofy device he was scanning your aircraft with?
antique geiger counter - the scan the plane every single time. 🤷🏼♂️
I think I would just stay home.
I know man.., it’s not easy if you don’t get some guidance to do these things.
The first couple of times is stressful. Then it becomes easy. I highly recommend you use a checklist like shown here - I've done the same thing for some time now.
It isn’t bad, just a lot to keep track of. I did my first trip to Canada earlier this year and used AOPA’s guide. Highly recommend a checklist, but once we started, for the most part it went smoothly. It will definitely be easier next time.
I would like to cross the boarder but Canada does not accept my basic med.
Yeah that's a challenge - I should have specifically mentioned the basic med issue - I will make that point in the expanded text post that is linked in the description.
Yep, happened to me…
How'd it play out?
@ USA private pilot 43yo, 337B. First time flying back into US. Freeport bahamas > FXE. Filed w “EZ EAPIS” app on iphone. 30 mins before departure, received email saying i was “cleared for flight”. Entered FXE, went to CBP. Officer Sh**fer said “you didnt call so i have to report you to DC. This is a landing rights airport, had you done the same thing and went to fort pierce youd be fine”. He also let me know he was a pilot and scolded me because i made this trip as a non instrument pilot. I fought the fine, was reduced to $2000. I fought it myself no lawyer.
1:45 re: runways on the border, there are a handful of them. they date back to WW2, before the US was in the war, and they were trying to stay ostensibly neutral but still supply the allies: ruclips.net/video/jJra9NnEEsk/видео.html
Given your nerd channel I thought you'd appreciate :)
Now let’s imagine a world without customs and “”””border protection””””
It's the pre mirror universe Star Trek paradigm. And I wanna live there.
This settles in, not going to fly, I’ll stick with driving across the Rainbow bridge.
Haha. Sorry. It is what it is...
But if you ever decide to fly, I've done the suffering for you, while I generated these lists - Just follow them, and you'll have a much easer time.
Hey Steve. You've posted a bunch of real names and phone numbers in the WhatsApp screen recording! You might like to check that.
I did - I sent the raw clip of that capture while deciding to use it during the edit process and Arturo said it was a public channel, so go ahead.
@@FlightChops Perfect. Glad to hear that (I'm in Europe, we're alert to things like this).
Well this seems uncalled for. Considering how customs ignores border crossings in their millions. I feel a simple warning is sufficient.
@ Two things here. First, I’ve crossed plenty of boarders by land or air.
Secondly and far more importantly, yes DHS, and customs allow a shocking amount of boarder violations to stand. It seems a known entity, Canadian national, and hardly a threat by any definition warrants the response.
I am aware of the clerical error and the likelihood that checklist neglect is what brought it on. My point is the response seems a bit much.
Just don’t bother flying to the USA. No big loss, way less headaches.
Haha.. yeah well... Most of the word's general aviation community is there... so whatcha gonna do?
@ Lol I live here and usually end up driving 200 extra miles to go visit family rather than cutting through Ontario just to save the headache of dealing with the US border. Never had issues with the Canadian border, just getting back into the US.
@ Sadly I suppose that’s true everywhere to some degree or the other. Given the scale of problems in some places I’ve visited on earth we have it pretty good when we can complain about hours of delays and inconveniences.