How NOT to simul climb... literally
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- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2021
- If you want to see part of the #RoyalArches route in #YosemiteNationalPark, then this is the video for you. If you want to learn something, well... we have 300 other videos for that. Don't use tooth devices to belay while climbing! Always tie knots in the end of your ropes when rappelling.
/ ryansheridan was trying to get away from me but unfortunately was attached to me with a 70m rope
/ tylerkarow soloed past us
Jeremiah LeTourneau and Eric Odegaard are in the bonus material at the end
/ brian_bast_ edited the santa intro
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That was chaos that was entirely unhelpful except for people that already know exactly what was going on. Exactly how I like it! 😂 full entertainment
Simul Climbing is nothing for beginners anyway^^
Yup, sitting here, trying to understand what is happening but failing miserably. Definitely something I will never try, seems way too sketchy
Glad I’m not the only one scratching my helmet.
For those who aren't really clear on what or why to SimulClimb, it was explained to me (when I first learned of it halfway up The Apron of the Chief in Squamish on my first multipitch) this way...
My leader: "I'm going to climb normally and you're going to belay normally. You are roped into the end of the climbing rope with a regular figure eight. When I reach the end of the rope, and you have no more rope left to belay with, then unclip from the anchor, clean the gear and start climbing, cleaning the protection as you go. That's called 'SimulClimbing". If I fall, your weight and all the friction in the system will stop me as you get pulled upwards, but try not to let too much slack build up between us. If you fall, the pull on me will be straight down and I could fall to my last-placed protection below. But this is easy climbing, no big overhangs and you're very light so I'm not worried." I thought about this for a bit and, despite it seeming a bit sketchy, it was clear that the leader was taking far more risk than me, so if he was OK with it, then fine. At the end of the climb, I found out I had also done my first Free Solo because we skipped setting up for the first pitch. (No wonder I was so scared about that approach. :))
TLDR: SimulClimbing is used for easy climbing where you still want protection but you just want to climb & climb, not spend half the time building anchors & coiling rope at every pitch. This way you just go! PS: Don't try this with a 275 lb dude and a 100 lb chick. :)
If you are watching this video to learn how to simul climb, do not simul climb!
Exactly!
@@HowNOT2 xD
Haha. True. Maybe at least have some bolts between you and you homie.
now that's a dope unofficial collaboration, Tyler Karow on the solo pass. That would be a cool collab one day if it was ever made official!
DO IT
I thought I recognized him
Dope?
Funny seeing Tyler pop up there. Climbing RUclips is such a small world.
Was that the person free soloing past us?
@@HowNOT2 yeah pretty sure it was Tyler Karow. He's got a YT channel as well.
@@dechristophera yep. i scrolled down to look for a comment like this :-)
@@HowNOT2 yah I also think it was Tyler Karow, sounded and looked like him. You should check out his channel, one of the only trad channels that provides 1st person POV.
Yup! I was climbing Crest Jewel that day. I remember being super confused watching you guys belay on the first pitch
when simul rappelling, you can clip either end of a long runner or cord to each person's belay loop to ensure the two rappel down together
That's smart, I'm always afraid of sliding up to the anchor and getting my grigri jammed in the anchor sending the other person free fall almost, all the way to the ground. I'm going to start doing that because this is my favorite way to rap.
It's helpful. Found making sure I rap on a blocked line removes a lot of concern.
Before this video: I don't think I'll ever simul-climb, that seems super sketchy.
After watching: There's no way in hell I'm ever trying that.
Good! Then we accomplished our goal!
You can do it relatively safely. Lots of things they are doing here is unnecessarily dangerous.
@@Mike-oz4cv climbing is unnecessary and inherently dangerous though... If something scares you too much, it's perfectly fine to stick to what you know. But yeah, I'm probably doing this route just like this one day. Sorry Ryan, I was not deterred.
@@benjaminbutler6150 If you can reduce risk easily, why not do it? For example in this video Ryan lets his partner start the first pitch with a full rope length of slack instead of simply belaying him until the rope is fully used up. And why does his partner not place any gear?! My point is that simul-climbing itself doesn’t have to be dangerous, but the way they are doing it here is (and unnecessarily so).
@@Mike-oz4cv so personally, I would not mind if another climber decides to run-out an entire pitch of secure crack climbing on a well traveled route during great weather conditions. I'm not saying you should, just that some people do. There's a balance to risk assessment. If something were to go wrong that would suck, but you can always put pro in and rest if you get tired. If you're attempting to climb many pitches in a row though, the approach pitch shouldn't even get you sweating. When you can climb smoothly and read the rock - see every move knowing that if one hold is bad you have backup plans - you might decide not to waste energy placing pro. No one who does this sort of climbing is trying to die. I've done about as bad already in the Valley, and I'm kinda new to rock climbing. I lead Snake Dike with three cams my first time up Half Dome, the same month I taught myself how to multi-pitch by rope-soloing Lover's Leap. I then continued south on my bicycle to Mount Whitney and hiked it in solo in a day. Some people are built different. If you don't think you're that kinda adventurous, don't free solo. Take a responsible, patient partner that complements your skills and choose your route carefully. Always tie knots when rappelling. Wear your helmet. I climb with focus and very carefully no matter what style, and I will gladly take a belay over rope solo any day. Heck, you can lead it if you want, I just want to get to the top!
I hope this gives you insight to other views on climbing. You can still be a very strong climber and disagree with this mentality completely, or you can be relatively average, yet live by it. I like to think I'm somewhere in between ;)
9:54 When you forget your personal anchor, you "Lacks-A-Daisy "
That’s a knee slapper!
I know you told all the disclaimers but I figure I should add this. At 7:05 This was a poor example of a "rebelay" for simul climbing... The fall potential for the second was at least 6 feet (with NO slack and without any rope stretch, just due to the extension on the cam and the fact that the Ropeman II creates a lot of drag) The leader getting pulled by the second was a real possibility here (if there was any fall from the second). As vdiff puts it (you can google it): " PCD’s should be attached to bomber multi-directional gear with minimum extension. Clipping one directly to a bolt is the best option, but they can also work well with trad gear if some cunning sling craft is used. ". Thanks for this great video taking us on a super classic climb in the super classic Yosemite. It gave me a great time and I wish I was with you to enjoy such a pristine adventure!!!
yea, when i was editing that, I was wondering why i didn't clip it directly to the cam. I think that spot was super wandering and so i climbed with like 6 feet of slack in my hand in case he fell and pulled that piece down before it held. Definitely how not to do it!
I thought exactly this - I can only hope this comment stays on top!
To keep it simple, minimal extension is important with rebelays. Good catch, great point to be made here.
@@Kolkritan Maybe pin this comment Ryan ;-) Cheers!!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I super agree! Pin the comment Ryan!
You might have mentioned this and I just missed it but I want to add that it’s very important to put knots at the ends of your ropes when repelling.
the sliding x setup guys were looking sharp
Enteraining and accidentally educational because you described the reality of simul climbing. Good work fellas!
Now I have the confidence to simulclimb. Thanks Ryans!
Exceptional chaos gentleman, well done. Only simo-repelled once, in J-tree, (in December and in the dark), off the top of a dome. There were no anchors at the top and no other way down. My partner, weighted off me, went over one side, while I (weighted off him) went off the other side, hoping like hell the rope didn't roll over the rounded top of the dome. We both vowed to never speak of it again.
Cool story. PS: It's simo-rappelled. Simo-repelling is when you both haven't showered and both reek. :)
Fuck! That's terrifying
My climbing partner wanted to simul rappel morning glory arch after we canyoneered medieval chamber. We almost did it but I got super sketched out with how unprotected the start would have to be. Picture an almost cylindrical horizontal piece of rock that was like 8' wide. If either of you was a foot ahead of the other in the span of going from standing on the arch to hanging, you'd both drop and have a bad day.
We opted to do the guidebook advised rappel off some bolts on the cliffside proper, away from the arch. I still jump scare wake myself up with dream footage of us trying that move and it going wrong. Having the anchor between simul partners makes a HUGE difference.
Love the Ryan'ssss vids! Sick fellas 🤙🤙🤙
I watched the whole thing and am now not confused on simul climbing than I was before watching it. But simul rapping now seems easier and straight forward
99pct sure one of the guys at the very end with the slick simul-rappel setup is Jeremiah LeTourneau's first appearance in the HCU (HowNOT2 Cinematic Universe) before later co-starring in the HowNot2BigWall/Big Wall Bible series. Even more apt that it's a post credits teaser scene!
It was indeed chaotic - and I still learned some cool new tricks, like using the Grigri to self belay and be more flexible as the lower person in simul climbing. Cool!
That bonus footage was gold!
I was stoked to see their system. The way I climbed with those two was so effed, i didn't post anything about that :)
Can't wait to see the tibloc test, often wonder about it desheathing the rope but the length of rope between the anchor and tibloc would allow some stretch. I think the more stretch you have would make it less likely to happen. Thanks for showing the tandem teather setup, best one yet.
Yes. I think the stretch absorbs a lot of that shock. I had someone fall below me with 50 feet between each other and it didn't rip apart. It held because the stretch probably kept the max force of that incident to only 1kn.
@@HowNOT2 Yeah it's my favorite way to almost solo. You probably bounced over 1K I'd give it 1.5kn. Is it was also the variationf using a semi static rope so that if you do fall you don't go 25 to 30' pass where you fell, It's for like a 100' plus route.
Amazing, love it!
Dude!! It’s Tyler!
I like how you try to catch the end of the rope when you pull the rappel down, my friends and I do that all the time even on single pitch climbs.
If you get the end you get a beer
Great. When I simal climb usually I do hip belay from top when follower needs and tie knots if I'm below coming up a fast section below.
15:53 We skipped this exact rap a month ago 😂
We clipped in, and to unweight, my partner untied his stopper & rapped off the end. It was perfectly safe, but the *boing* feeling was eerie.
Love your videos :) Thanks from Czech republic
Tyler crossover :O
Soooo good!
Fun video. I have simul-climbed a lot, particularly in the mountains. I think that you should avoid doing it with a full rope length between you. Many of the problems described in this video can be avoided if you shorten down to around 50 feet of rope so you can see each other and talk about where you are and what you are doing.
Simul-rappelling is easy to get wrong. Quite a few accidents happen from the two rappelers not coordinating and communicating. Someone fell to their death a few years back because their partner disconnected from the rope without them knowing. It is certainly a technique that has value, and the rockfall advantages can be real, but it requires careful attention.
50ft is pretty short for 5th class terrain of any difficulty, having 2-3 pieces in between for that distance means your double rack is depleted very quickly. 30-40m in between is typically more equipment efficient and is still a reasonable distance to communicate.
Just saying, for the last rap to the ground, consider not rapping off that tree that is barely hanging to life. There is a rap station on the ledge behind you. Two bolts are there and a 60m rope will get you to the ground, barely. The trees on Royal Arches are suffering greatly from the drought and from climbers rapping and using them for belays. The tree at the end of the 1st pitch, the tree near the end of the 4th pitch, the tree that was at the end of the 5th pitch... they are all either dead or about to die. The tree or bush that was on the top of the 6th pitch has died. Let's be considerate of the trees and minimize our impact on them. Personally, I would prefer to see bolts at these locations so that climbers wouldn't feel the need to use the trees. When descending the route, I often give whatever water I have left to some of the trees. The invasive mistletoe is also killing the trees.
I usually walk off, but I didnt see any bolts in that area. How recently was the station added, and are you sure its still there. (top of P1)
@@ryansheridan5015 I also walk off from the top via North Dome Gulley, but on climbs that I don't plan on topping out, I rap the route.
That bolt set has been there for a few years. I was told about them as I wouldn't have seen them otherwise. I last used them December 20, 2020. I have photos of the bolts. I have used them 5 or 6 times.
To find them from the tree that you rapped from, scramble back up the climb (3rd Class gulley) about 20 feet. No rope is needed to reach the bolts from the tree. As you're going up, look on the right for a path going off on a ledge. It's a well traveled path between the manzanita. The path is essentially level but after about 30 feet, there is an option to descend between the manzanita to the right. Go about 20 download and you will find the bolts on a sloping slab on your right side. Rapping with a 70m is no problem. If you use a 60m, you have to be careful near the bottom to pendulum a little to rappellers left to touchdown on Terra firma. The end of the rappel is about 50 feet to the right of the chimney, regular route start.
These bolts are ASCA bolts, well placed with a short chain leading to rap rings. I was surprised and a bit miffed to see them there. Why wouldn't they be put on the rappelers right, opposite of the tree at the end of the 1st Pitch? If they were there, they could be a quick anchor for the belay for the climb, and people would see them easier. However the current placement has two advantages. First, if someone is climbing the 1st Pitch, another group can rap off at the same time without interference. Secondly the off route rap is down a smooth slab and not down through a tree, overhanging boulder, and along the slippery corner. As a result the rap route doesn't protect the tree as well as it could because not everyone knows where the bolts are.
Good stuff! Super authentic and amazing on so many levels... another style I now know, how not 2
Good luck on 80k! (and 100k, and 150k, and 200k....)
10 seconds in and I'm hearing it asked if Santa got his 'Hoes' this Christmas. This vid can only get better from here on in!
According to training manuals from german mountain rescue, the Tibloc retains the most rope sheath strength compared to other toothed ascenders. It would be interesting to see that tested. Unfortunately there are no numbers in that document as far as I recall, only that they have found forces to stay below 6kN when using a Tibloc as a "trailing fall arrest device" basically, on a dynamic rope with both ends fixed. This would also imply that anything below 6kN would not damage the rope. I once heard 11kN stated as what a Tibloc can hold, but I'm not sure if that was referring to the rope sheath, the rope as a whole, or the device by itself.
10:25 that camera angle was amazing look at that background!
I had the same thoughts on that route. Me and my partner tried to simlu most of it but found the rope just got in the way most of the time with drag or slack. I think a 35m rope and a thin 35m pull cord (in a pack) for the raps would be better. Also You could walk off and/or go for crest jewl after. Solid video guy!
@HowNOT2 can you do a break test on rigging plates? I'm pretty curious on how they actually hold up.
I noticed a lot more peeps using this method. I can see how if you and your partner got really good at this you could move really really fast in kinda hard terrain. For me personally if I think the terrain is easy enough I’ll go for a more traditional simul situation and leave the micro traction at home. If the terrain is a little to hard to scary for that I’m short fixing all day.
Ive been wanting to get into climbing, they recently opened one in ripon near me (assuming you know where that is because I've heard you mention Lodi) just wait on my achilles to heal. If you're ever in the area you should have a meetup!
Clenching Sphincter knot minder. Need to get me one of those...or two.
Dude, it would be really cool if you could break some indoor climbing holds and generally mess up a climbing gym. Would make a great collab with one of the indoor climbing youtubers and probably be a lot more accessible to the indoor fad climbers than some of the outdoor stuff. (What force does it take to rip a plastic hold off the wall? A Crimp? A Sloper? What breaks first if you hang a sky-hook on a plastic hold or if you place a cam/nut between two plastic holds? )
Looks so trippy when the rope goes down
Fixing your rope to your harness is the way to go on multi raps. I never have a knot hanging down there ever. You can argue the loop is also a snag but so is a knot. The advantage is your ability to manage the rope underneath your feet utilizing both sides of rope. It takes half the time and less effort to pull up double ropes to reposition the lazy ends. And you don't have to rely on a stopper knot slamming into your device during a catastrophe. Erdy out
Sheridan is funny as hell
Episodes like this are just as good if not better than the break test content!
I don't even climb but I love the videos!
Minute 15:50! I felt the sweat hahahahahhahahahh
Is that rope the Edelrid Protect Pro? I'd be really interested in testing of an aramid rope
It is! Burly little thing. Love it
@@ryansheridan5015 nice, we have one but we find it a bit stiff. Also I managed to damage it and lost 5m off the end 🙂
I feel like this is the kind of route where those 8.2mm triple rated ropes would be nice
I feel like shorter, not thinner would have been nice
just DON'T MIX SIZES. Holy crap, when I did Royal Arches, every. single. goddamned time. the ropes got instantly tangled together. (I use an Alpine Up from Climbing Tech - which I love) Ryan, do a gear review on it!! I'll buy another one and donate it.
Could you please Test the "Kong Frog Carabiner" you find it for 25€ on Amazon and they say it will hold 25kN but ist look way more than 100N... I want to know can I trust them?
I know this isn't a how to be safe video, but it might be worthwhile to mention that the petzel evolv that the guy was using at the end isn't designed to be used as a personal anchor. I know it's probably super good enough but it's worth knowing that it is against the manufacturers recommendation and each person can calculate their own risk tolerance. Ps I love the tie the knot part. Maybe you saved someone's life
The Petzl website describes its use for positioning below an anchor point. That is exactly what a personal anchor is
You missed the last pitch and north dome :-). Cute demo
its a good thing this video was intended to show how not to do it, because I certainly didn't learn how to.
Made a second account and subscribed. 🤘🏻
Weird seeing Jeramiah on this video when we are over half way through the bigwall bible
What do you use for first person pov filming?
Iphone
Omg. Sounds scary. And confusing. I'm so confused. I didn't understand anything. Except tying a knot at the end of your rope.
If that is all you came away with, then I feel like we did our job ❤ Its so important
Da 30m rope slab free solo then rappell😭 mine only has 3 pitches and is chossy chossy been cleanin it up a bit
how long did it take you to do that whole climb/rapel thing?
Better part of a morning. Started at 8 and down before afternoon when the sun gets too hot. Filming slowed us down a bit.
Can you show what the guys at the end were doing
Give me some slack hahaha :D
Extrêmement bon contenu!!
Aren't rappel ropes (especially one that can endure twenty consecutive rappels) very different to climbing/belay ropes ?
I am a total beginner at this but the information I have seen describes climbing/belay ropes as having a significant amount of stretch in them which protects climbers from deceleration during a fall and prevents the rope breaking too.
Whilst rappel ropes are thicker, stiffer and designed to not stretch.
Nah. Climbing ropes are good for rappelling. You definitely won't carry a special rappelling rope up a mountain 😉
But it's bouncy, so going back up a dynamic climbing rope is more work than a static rope.
But climbing ropes are plenty strong.
8:14 was that sound a BASE canopy opening?
no one BASEs over there. not steep enough
Every time I find myself, considering, simule Climbing , it just feels more dangerous
Just at the almost end of the video I was going to suggest the PAS cross locking, then the epiloge came and my comment is no longer needed. One question, was that the time you met Jeremiah? Thanks for the laughs.
Tiblock is really slippy on dynamic rope lol I’ll trust my trax pretty good on dynamic but I’m no expert!!!
Cameo from Jeremiah (foreshadowing of the big wall series)
Is simul repelling better?
Is Tyler karow on minute 5?
lol tyler karow cameo
Looks like you got some good adrenaline out of it!
👌
5:25 Is that a wild Tyler Karow?
As a non native english speaker; What are these nots theyre talking about tying? Not and no nots?
Super cool simulrap method at the end!!!
you should do a vid on "how NOT to lead rope solo"
Did not understand shit…fun to watch anyway 😀
seven sphincters
Video coupe have used more sphincters 😝
Nice one none the less, I became more smarter 😁
When you guys were transitioning at stations during the rapping, I couldn't tell -- did you each commit to only one bolt when pulling the rope? Was there a way to add redundancy to that step in the case that one bolt failed?
There is a 98.245% the personal anchor would break first before a good looking bolt in Yosemite. If I was free hanging and weighting the bolt, I was clipped in twice to (most of the time) two separate things. If I was on plush ledges and standing there, just one.
I like to use a QD to one bolt and the personal anchor to another. My partner then attaches itself to my PA which is redundant if some bolt fails.
Good question. You can clip the bolts together with a quickdraw. Then, each partner clips to one bolt. Now the bolts are backed up. Takes about 5 seconds to do.
Some footage of the simul rappel in action would have been informative (obviously not safe if you only had a phone for camera, though). I was wondering how the rope reacts with 1 person on each side.
ya, did you guys see Pete Whittaker's crazy gopro video on how he solo'd that route in norway with reasonably good footage (by himself)?
@@JasonMinahan i did yesterday. I might try something like that. If you ever see two dudes climbing with backpacks with bionic arms sticking out, you'll know we figured it out haha
no way would I trust a bar tack to hold me on a daisy chain so many have stripped the sew loops at least use a p.a.s
Why didn't you shorten your 70 Meter rope by coiling it around yourself and tying it off?
Ryan doesn’t simul rappel he Psi-mule rappels.
Simul-climbing Is the way go for C2-C3. So much faster than Belaying. Way safer than going free too. It’s the only way to climb
Losing friends far better than myself, during simulclimbing they'd done successfully before, has convinced me that the fad of speed, attendant media buzz, etc. has steered climbing and too many climbers down the wrong path, away from attending to actual safety margins, for some dubious gain I can't even fathom. Gizmos specifically used outside the parameters they were designed and tested to withstand are not magic - perhaps they have held for others, who you don't know and don't know what else their circumstances involved. So, more and more keep using the tactics and gizmos, until eventually real-world tests will demonstrate their limits and people will be hurt or die. And what precisely, of lasting value, will you have gained, then?
laxadaisy? Try lackadaisical
how a bout a 40m and 30m of paracord ;)
i guess that could work. 20 rappels pulling paracord sounds shitty though haha
Clipping the end of the rope to your harness isn’t a bad idea, you can’t clip it without a knot, but you can throw down a rope without a knot.
Alot of heavy breathing from Ryan for feeling *super bomber* on the climbs😅
how about tieing the ends of the rope together? rap on a ring... ahhahahaha
Hey, I comment early. 😅
I simul climb in the mountains a lot and what you were doing was the most dangerous sh1t ever, and don't get me started on simul rappelling.
Hear me out... Step 1: 'Climber 1' -----------30m rope--------------- 'Climber 2'(w/ alpine butterfly)--------30m rope------------ 'climber 3' ... Assume theres anywhere from 5 to 7 pieces of pro between each climber. Step 2: pray?
According to my experience it could be a waste of time, or maybe even dangerous, tying knots at the ends of the rope because they get tangled easily and sometimes they get stuck in things like trees or rocks. I tie knots only when I see there is less than 5/10m of rope left when going down. What do you think about this?
Yer gonna die
I agree
Climbers don't die climbing. They die rappelling. Suck it up. Tie the knots. You've had a long day climbing, you're tired.
@@JasonMinahan I was told this by mountain guides and with the experience I got I agree with this idea, because in the case you throw ropes it is quite easy that the get stuck in things. If you add wind in the equation and you get a tangled rope that may be unreachable.
@@gila96aquila perhaps consider Saddlebags.
Santa is gonna give coal to those jerks who watch videos but don’t subscribe.
Should of included the super cringe simul climbing scene from the beginning of the "film" Vertical Limit.