Using a Guide ATC to Climb SRT & Rappel when Saddle Hunting
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2021
- In this video I demonstrate how you can use a guide ATC to climb SRT and rappel when saddle hunting. This device can be used as a cheaper alternative to a Madrock Safeguard, Lifeguard, Petzl Gri Gri, or Beal Birdie for saddle hunting purposes. At the end of the video, I compare climbing and rappelling with the guide atc to a Madrock Safeguard. Here is a list of all the gear that I used in the video. *As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases listed below.
Black Diamond Guide ATC: amzn.to/2MWgECK
Petzl Guide ATC: amzn.to/3ibrobY
GM Climbing Hand Ascender: amzn.to/35H3e4e
New Doer Hand Ascender: amzn.to/2LLx8gy
Foot Sling: amzn.to/35HRqi1
12" Nylon Sling: amzn.to/35GwWWU
36" Rabbit Runner: www.bluewaterropes.com/produc...
2', 3', or 4' sling: amzn.to/3bDxz7o
Black Diamond Carabiners: amzn.to/3srEV3N
Oval Carabiner: amzn.to/39u6Rf2
6.5mm Prusik Cord: amzn.to/3ikWKx6
6.8mm Sterling Hollowblock: amzn.to/2KdAybq
The level of skill you have in demonstrating these processes is outstanding. Very clear. (I wrote processes to fix jet engines) so I know what I'm watching. I do agree with some of the comments, I'd rather spend the extra and get the mad rock to save fiddle time in my tree. Please note: If your not a process engineer you missed your calling! Keep the videos coming and good luck.
Thanks for the kind words Brian.
Great video, with a clear and concise explanation. Thank you
Just found your channel. Thanks for a very thorough explanation
Thanks for the ideas, I am getting my first saddle hunting setup together and I already have a Petzl Reverso, sweet!
That'll work perfect for this application!
@@SaddleHunter yeah I just have to find out if I can run 11+mm rope through it or will I have to go with a more typical rock climbing thickness
Mine is about 15 years old so it's hard to find the specs for it
Thanks for the info!
This is the exact setup I already use. Nice.
Yeah it's a great option.
@@SaddleHunter yea, it’s either this system or ddrt for me. Just depends on the woods I suppose.
Thank you,
I know you didn't invent this method, but man that seems like a lot to remember after a long hunt. I can see me forgetting something and dropping like a stone.
And here I am worrying about forgetting my release! That's a lot of stuff to remember. Ive got plenty of Dutch in me, but I think I'd still pony up the money for a Safeguard! Love the videos man, keep 'em coming!
Thanks for watching! I've got three new saddles that I'm working on reviews for right now.
Thank you.
I tried explaining something almost identical to this setup before but it was difficult explaining it. Very cool video 👍. I’ve climbed and rappelled using an ATC Guide with the RAD system several times. You could even swap out the hand ascender for a friction hitch like a diestal or VT. Ultra minimalist and very safe if assembled correctly. Some people may say it’s not as easy to set up using a grigri or mad rock however it’s clear they’ve never tried using an ATC in guide mode. An ATC is used for rappelling in rock climbing and canyoneering way more commonly than an assisted braking device.
You can just leave the ATC connected on rope the whole hunt but slide it down out of the way. You’ll obviously be forced to switch out of guide mode before rappelling but reduces potential errors.
I agree, it's an identical set-up to the Gri Gri in rapid ascent system. I don't think it's much work at all, plus it provides multiple backup points. Thanks for watching.
@@SaddleHunter Exactly. Not to mention a lot of people are using assisted breaking belay devices with skinny 8mm rope which goes against the manufacturers guidelines. I know they typically work but you still get some rope slipping through the device at times. Keep up the good content man! We appreciate it 👌
Great info
Thanks Peter!
Up and down the speed was about the same. It's all the dinking around with changing stuff once you are at the top that would drive me to drink. Also, by the time you buy the hand ascender, and the extra carabiners, you would have invested as much or more than just buying a Madrock Safeguard.
Once again, however, you have done an excellent job of explaining how to use this option should one decide to do so.
Again , nice job on the video very informative. I actually have a grigri +, it seems like a little less fiddle factor but was a little more expensive, but worth it. I do think you need to add throw line and throw ball into equipment needed for the srt setup 😂 😂😂😂😂
Haha good call!
Well made video. I have been sport rapelling and rock climbing for over 30 years and am very familiar with the ATC. It is a very versatile piece of equipment and can be used for many things. It's good to have a variety of tools in your tool box and a variety of different skills and techniques that you can employ in a variety of situations should the need arise. I haven't saddle hunted yet but have recently gotten into recreational tree climbing as I am getting too old and achy for rock climbing and don't have the hand and finger strength any more. I have experimented with the Guide ATC for ascending/descending and you can do it as you described and you did a good job of presenting it. However if you are going to do SRT, my recommendation is suck it up and spend the money and get the Gri Gri or Madrock. My rationale is this - If you are on ascent and need to descend for whatever reason, especially if something has gone wrong or if something unexpected has happened, with an assist-belay device, you do not need to rearrainge your set up, swap out carabiners or load and unload the rope at various times. you just unhook your tag end from your ascender, pull the handle on the device and head back down to Mother Earth. If something has already gone wrong, you want to be able to get back on the ground with as little fuss and rearrainging and unhooking and rehooking of equipment as possible. Simplicity is the greatest sophistication. ATC is a good piece of equipment and it's good to know a variety of ways to get yourself back down to Earth. But the other devices mentioned can move you up and down the rope more efficiently and with less chance of making a misstep IMHO.
Thanks for watching. No doubt about it, the assisted devices are way easier. This is just a lower cost option. I contacted most of the makers of those assisted devices and none of them are recommended for use in an SRT set up.
To each his own. Myself, if things go sideways in a tree, the last thing I want is to then be dependent on a complicated piece of machinery ruled by Murphy. I'll take a minute, get my head back in place, and then use my manual system that I have practiced, and practiced, and practiced...but from that perspective, I'm with Chad. There's a lot of hardware on that rope.
I'm interested in what company makes that climbing line. I've seen some people reviewing climbing line that looks very sketchy once u take the protective wrap on the outside off. I use line made by Sterling & if it needs a sewn eye that will hold a carabiner or a large sewn loop that allows u to girth hitch around a tree or large branch by just putting the tag end of your climbing line through it. But u need throwline hooked to a throwbag like a Petzyl 12 oz. Yellow throwbag. Then u have to have a cube to store all your throwline in. But if u had some 550 paracord & a 14 oz. throwbag u can get up in a 🌳 where u throw over a union in the 🌳 & then switch out that paracord with your climbing line. I've been doing this for 5 years now. I spend February, March & the 1st part of April to setup several spots in many areas. But when I'm up in the 🌳 I can usually toss my throwball over a higher union in the 🌳 that I just can't reach from the ground due to branches getting in the way. I've been to spots where the branches coming off the trunk of the 🌳 that just won't work due to tightness. So the learning curve is learning to avoid these time waisters. Simply pick the low hanging fruit, climb until u get a good foothold & tether yourself to the 🌳 & then get the throwball over a more suitable place & when u have both ends of the paracord hook it to your climbing line so that will be your hunting height. U will develop a feel for it. A good area to go is a 🌳 that u couldn't attach a climbing stick to. Those oak 🌳 with huge trunks have multiple options which is nice. My current climbing system is SRT & it's 40 feet with a Sterling 9mm CRV rope which is a static rope. I have a 30" eye to eye hitchcord which is a Beeline. It goes right above my Trango Vergo rapell device. One triple locking Petzyl oval carabiner which is called a Mousqueton OK Triact needed for the whole system. I use a double bridge on my saddle so I keep connected into one system with the slack stuff tucked away. The bridge that I didn't use to climb with I connect a 8mm Oplux tether to it & that's it. How I ascend in an effortless way is by having a micro pulley hand ascender which is the CT Quick-roll. It takes 2 fingers to advance that Quick-roll & I can climb 20 feet in a minute w/o breaking a sweat. Much less items to stealth strip too. I'm never going to be willing to save $50 for an injury that costs me $50,000.
Do you have any info on getting the rope secured at the top and getting it retrieved after descending? (For SRT method)
I would use the vt prusik above the guide atc, no chance of eating the prusik into the atc
Need show at start, how you got rope up onto tree. Newbies news. Also how getting rappel rope down. Know video was about the ATC
This past year I have gotten competent one-stick climbing and rappelling, first using a madrock safeguard, and then for my backup/2nd set of gear (which stays in the truck unless I need it) using a Mammut Smart 2.0 with a autoblock backup (per your "No Safeguard? No Problem!" video's suggestions). Now I am interested in learning about SRT, just for fun. I purchased a Left Hand CT Quick Roll (per recommendation from some other's video) but haven't even tried using it yet. How does the CT Quick Roll compare with the Hand Ascenders you recommend above? Do they serve the same purpose?
Right at the end when you were performing SRT using a Madrock Safeguard, that surprised me and lost me a little. I have a Safeguard and have used it a lot when ascending using the one-stick method (and then rappelling), but I think my upward progress on those ascents was based on climbing up the one-stick's aider and then steps, and moving the rope up the tree and then the step up the tree. When you SRT, you don't have a one-stick with its aider to climb up, you are just climbing up the rope. How did you use the Madrock Safeguard for SRT?
The reason I want to learn SRT to compliment my one-sticking is if I am up a tree hunting for a long time and temporarily want to come down without taking everything down (to retrieve something I dropped, go try to stalk an out of range deer, go to lunch, or go to the bathroom) then later I could use SRT to get back up the rope to resume my hunt or get my platform and other gear. Can you help me understand how I can use my Madrock Safeguard to SRT back up the rope? In addition to the Safeguard I also have (but have not yet learned to use) a left handed CT Quick Roll hand ascender and a KONG Futura Hand Ascender Left (I know I only need one). I am looking for the minimum/simplest set of equipment that will let me ascend using the one-stick method and the SRT method, and then also rappel down.
Ok now you once at hunting heights do you use a platform to stand on or just keep feet braced on tree
I was curious instead of using my rappel rope to climb with a Madrock, could I use just my tether (8mm) with kong duck and my one stick to ascend the tree. Then when coming down switch to rappel rope (8mm) with figure 8 and Beal jimmy? I’m just not sure if the Kong sucks is meant to handle all the load and movement when free hanging while one sticking, but at the same time I feel it is since a lot of us trust when leaning tethered at hunting height.
Thanks for the great content. Couple questions!
Can I use 8mm Sterling Oplux?
I have the Petzl reverso and used two carabiners like you did except I didn’t use the extra nylon sling. I just attached both caribiners to my bridge and I couldn’t get it to bite. Any ideas?
I don’t have the hand ascender yet I was just testing the reverso ATC trying to be able to sit down in it. It kept letting rope through as if I were rappelling
Too small diameter of rope, I am pretty sure the minimum is 8.5mm
I bet it will still work for rappelling if you use the high friction side, but then you still need something for ascending
Great video. I was just curious how you placed the rope to begin with. Thanks
You make a bite in the rope and slide it into the top of the ATC. Then clip a carabiner through the wire on the atc and the rope.
@@SaddleHunter thanks for the reply. What I meant was how did you throw the rope up on the tree before climbing?
@Jungo Sato ahh gotcha. I typically preset spots before season. I’ll climb up with sticks and hang paracord. Then when I come to hunt I use the paracord to pull up the rope. You can also use a 12-15oz throw bag and try and throw the line over a limb if there’s one big enough.
@@SaddleHunter Thank you! I really enjoyed your video.
@@SaddleHunter do you have a video of yourself doing this ?
Can you use this same method with the Mammut Smart 2.0?
I have a black diamond technician harness. Will this set up work since I don't have a lineman setup?
Could this rig still work if you swapped out the ATC with the Mammut Smart 2.0? I bought one of those on your recommendation a while back and have enjoyed it. Wondering if I could SRT with it.
What happens when the prusik gets loaded in your rappel? Can you get it loose again?
How do you quietly attach the rope to the tree?
Why do you choose the left hand ascender instead of the right hand one? Is it because you need to use your right hand to pull the rope when going up?
Could you put 2 foot ascenders on the hand ascender, and that's your "platform"?
Just curious what saddle you are using. Is it a sit drag? I was thinking of trying saddle hunting for the first time but I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars just to find out that it is not for me. It looks like this is the cheapest method to give it a try. I don't mind buying the fancier mechanical devices but I don't want to spend all the extra dough for no reason. I can upgrade after I find out that I like it. Can you use just a sit drag or do you need a rock harness to go with a sit drag?
You are using ATC for the SRT. I watched your video on Mammut and went with that. I assume the Mammut will work in place of the ATC? Do you have this in a video?
I like your video but 18' up a tree is a bad time to drop essential rapelling equipment while trying to switch over. Numb fingers, dark conditions, oops there goes my 12" sling. Guess I'll hang out here for a while longer.
I have a question concerning repelling down with an ATC. Instead of connecting to your bridge with the pursik loop, Is it an acceptable to hook your prusik, with a caribiner into the "hole or loop" of the ATC???
I wouldn’t because the hitch cord is weaker and I’ve never seen that done in the climbing world.
Fiddle factor is an understatement. The atc setup and break down was honestly tedious to even watch. Just run the madrock and move on is my advice to everyone.Zero value added to really any other option once you factor time wasted in and out of the tree, extra failure points, and the obvious extra Fiddle factor.
It's so bad I would literally hang a tree stand before using it...lol
But thank you for showing others what it looks like to use it safely.
I hear ya. I’ve seen a lot of guys who don’t want to pony up for a safeguard or Gri Gri. So I wanted to make those guys aware of a cheap option that will do the same thing. Pro - cheaper. Con - extra steps.
I think it’s only intimidating to those who’ve never tried it. He’s taking a lot of additional safety measures in this video (which is good) but the concept of using an ATC in guide mode is actually extremely basic. An ATC is used way more commonly to repel in the rock climbing world than an assisted braking device like a grigri or Beal birdie.
👍💯
Thanks for watching.
i have the 11mm rope is there a bigger ATC
Possibly the Petzl Reverso: "Compatible with dynamic single ropes 8.5 to 10.5 mm (11 mm possible, depending on the rope's suppleness)".
Thanks for sharing the info but way too complicated for a newbie like me who is just getting into saddle hunting after hunting from treestands for 3.5 decades.
doesn’t make sense to me. how did you get the ascending rope in the tree to begin with? this climb for a mobile saddle hunter makes no sense unless you’re only hunting one tree
Throw bag with para. Then run your rope back over with paracord. When done I leave my paracord up and have multiple spots like that so I can just walk up in the dark not have to throw anything and get all setup somewhat quietly no sticks just a rope and my saddle
You can also add a autoblock below the ATC and a swabbish above. The ATC will tend the swabbish on the way up and you can grab both hitches to repel down. Look up the Privileged Bowhunter video about it. I’m considering switching
Spencer, with that haircut (and your knowledge of this type of stuff), I am wondering if you are in, or associated with our military?
So simple...
Try it!
So how much money are you really saving here? It can’t be much with the extra carabiners strap and ATC.
When compared to the "standard SRT" setup with a madrock, you need 1 extra carabiner, the guide ATC and the sling extension totaling $45.
@@SaddleHunter even when using an assisted braking device like a safeguard or grigri, you still want a prusik type knot under it for a safeguard in my opinion
Holy shit need a 3/4 ton truck with an 8 ft bed to haul all this shit out to the tree to climb this way
Can you use atc for single stick climbing?
Thx
Yes. I would personally just climb with a friction hitch and then attach my ATC bellow my friction hitch when I want to rappel. Your friction hitch would act as a third hand allowing you to stop anywhere along the descent.
Beautiful system, but way to complicated. Also, you started out with the rope already in the tree. There’s a better way.
He has all the extra safety steps but I don't use them, just the catastrophe knot. No need for sling extensions or prussik knots or tenders, depending on comfort level. I have rock and ice climbed for years so all of the extra steps seem overkill but if I was not confident I would use every step he shows here
A lot of moving parts.
You lost me at switching from the one device that’s $70-$100 to like 10-12 extra pieces which cost who knows cause you skipped over half the their prices 😂 nah I’ll just use sticks and the Prusik’s that come with my saddle 🤦🏻♂️
Cool method but too much to worry about OTHER than killing a deer LOL
Catastrophe swinging out of a tree with a gun on your own trying to learn something bloody dangerous! Get some training and dont go climbing trees on your own . Seriously .
Third hand is too close to the ATC and could cause it to fail. Sorry, but people like this giving advice that could cause injury or death should not be making this kind of video.
Just get some sticks. After all the cost for each of the 40 items you need, you could have had sticks.
I really like your channel and have watched many of your videos multiple times over. Each time I take away a little bit more. I have a 75 section of Samson Predator 11.4 mm and the Mad Rock Safeguard and BD Guide ATC both are rated for lines up to 11mm. I know it's only over by .4mm, but that makes me nervous going beyond what the items are designed for. I like the Predator and with 75 feet, I was going to try SRT with an Alpine Butterfly, midline to canopy hitch. I have done DRT (thank you NY saddle Hunters), but the hip thrust takes it out of me. I may just get another rope that will work within the rope guidelines of the Safeguard and the GATC and maybe shorten to a traditional SRT length (with paracord) to lighten the setup. Any suggestions for a new rope. I might like to either do 3 Beast sticks with a CAYG aider and rappel down OR SRT if I have a preset. I am not doing the 1 stick method. A man has to know his limits. I have been using the Beal Jammy as an autoblock backup. Saddle wise---I have owned the Tophyline (original version) and the NT Evolution. I have been with the Kestral for a few years (pre Flex times). I like your review of the Cruzr XC.
I can't imagine that 11.4mm rope in an 11mm ATC would cause safety issues but it may not work as smoothly. I would be more hesitant using it in a mechanical device like the Safeguard. If you are looking for a new rope I would recommend either Sterling Canyon C-IV or Canyon Elite, both can be bought from Eastern Woods Outdoors. Thanks for watching!