The Civilian PDW Concept | Why You Should Own One
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- Actually just get good with your pistol. But considering the fact that no one does.
This might be the next best thing.
I've been harping about the PDW in the industry, and understandably it's still not in a great spot due the lack of options on the market. But I think, with development, this will be the next big thing as partial -"shtf" becomes more prevalent.
Featured heavily:
B&T Tp9
Flux Raider
0:00 : Intro
1:31 : What is a PDW
3:52 : WHY
7:40 : WROL
9:12 : Use Cases
11:55 : Counter points
13:03 : PCC/AR pistol?
15:34 : PDW options
19:53 : Outro
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“As much capability as we can get without exiting the realm of covert into overt” that’s a very good definition of the type of PDW you’re taking about here. Thanks for the video.
Absolutely. This is the primary design parameter for the Flux Raider.
But that Glock setup minus a Chinese full auto switch and 8" extended barrel is almost pathetic, you need a machine pistol to make up for that patheticness of the caliber compared to an AK pistol toting urban youth, also once WROL occurs firepower and not petty unconstitutional legalities should be the priority.
Whatchoo said!!! 💯
In SHTF I believe everyone would open carry anything to create mutual respect like the old west. And the drill in video shows handgun is much faster to pull out and shoot. PDW seems taking longer from chest hostler, sling and stock deploy. I'm not sold for the idea for PDW yet cause the Idea of truck gun and undercounter gun in a store have been there for ages. Most family don't have budget for guns for each combat roles. I would still recommend a AR pistol with folding stock for most family easy to find parts, ammo, can hunt, more stopping power and range. If you have plenty of budget get PDW for sure if you bet your life in SHTF maybe not.
Agreed. And I'd like to add the Strike Industries SMC to the list of options. It seems to offer everything that the Flux Raider does.
I remember in Iraq, lots of insurgence would blend in with a crowd and fling a RG3 hand grenades at armored vehicles and then blend back into the crowd. This taught me a valuable lesson, blending into the crowd is worth its wait in gold. PDW allows a bit more firepower / capacity to break contact.
Yeah but that's in an insurgency, in WROL you are going overt mostly, just look at the recent South African unpleasantness, being seen to be armed and belligerent is 90% of your work in defending the home ground/neighborhood.
@@Veldtian1 Thats a good insightful point considering the context is always super important. I would add that we shouldn't box ourselves in in terms of capabilities. It really just depends on what stage of collapse/tyranny you're up against. There me be a need for both at different times and situations.
@@Veldtian1 While I agree WROL is certainly possible, but I would not say that WROL is MAD MAX. You may need to just get some groceries or move through a sketchy area (point A-> B). You MAY not want to be fully OVERT all the time, but can scale up and down as needed. I think soft armor vest, or low profile PC, are a big advantage here. The PDW fits in this grey area between ROL and WROL and can live in a small backpack if needed or come out and be “overt” if needed too. Not something I would take to war, but is something I would take to get groceries (if needed in WROL).
@@robertdole5391 I think you nailed the niche of a PDW and *I* think this "niche" would be more realistic than people may realize heh
@@3nertia Infact i'd say some places in the US already exist in that niche.
This video is about so much more than PDW's. I have this talk with preppers all the time! Just because society is collapsing doesn't mean you don't have to go to work and run errands anymore! In countries with roving death squads, most people still spend their days just trying to get by. There is a huge spectrum of misery before patrolling with a carbine is an option.
Ferfal (famous/infamous dude from Argentina who comments on Preparedness after going thru the collapse in Argentina) said that a WHOOOOOOLE lot of water has to go under the bridge before you will be allowed to walk around freely with a rifle. It's basically asking for trouble in a situation where authority and power are fluid and people who have rifles have power-and power gets challenged.
Absolutely. Essentially, most, if not all of us would be support, at most, and a PDW is best for most support roles. I am able to do all I need to do on a daily basis with a Raider under my button up shirt.
Agreed! This video is fantastic! A lot of what I have been thinking and challenging in the past few years. Started at the end of 2019.
I also found the 'classic SBR size' like MK18 to be way too large to carry but unnecessarily small and compromised for home; even the DDM4 PDW is a bit big to fit in any normal-ish bag.
An EVO3 S2 equipped w/ Wolfman-k, red dot, Inforce WML, and 35 rds Pmag can be folded into a vortex sling bag's weapon compartment with an extra 35rd mag. Yes, it can still fit a laptop and other daily stuff, but it isn't light. The same can be said with MCX Rattler, while the Rattler has way more power but not more recoil.
Flux is the best in firepower/size n' weight and has fantastic ergo. But it's not very accurate due to the red dot sitting on the frame; I would trust its mechanical accuracy to only about 1/3 the distance compared to other fixed barrel SMG designs. Also have to make sure the can doesn't hinder the reliability of its tilting barrel action, just like most handguns.
@@JohnZ556 The Raider accuracy is sufficient for the ranges it is intended for, but yes, less accurate than a fixed barrel. You can increase the accuracy (and shrink the footprint) by chopping the optic mount off and running your dot on the slide. Still not a fixed barrel, but it is quite accurate. I know of several people, including myself, who can get hits out to 200 yards, even with the standard Raider.
I know a lot of preppers(and there seems to be more and more every day), and this seems like a common mentality. They figure they'll go to bed one night, the world will change while they sleep, and they'll wake up with very little semblance of normal life in something out of a Mad Max movie or Walking Dead episode, and the only thing that'll matter is how many bullets and MREs they've stockpiled.
I would encourage every prepper to take a cheap vacation(or volunteer tour) to a poorer country. Hell, even if you go to Mexico, leave the resort and actually see the way real people live in the actual country. Because that's far closer to the reality of the way our privileged culture will go than the apocalyptic wet dreams most are having. And you'll notice one thing for sure - there's generally not a lot of prominent armament.
I've been pondering PDW ownership for awhile now, and this video reinforced some of the thoughts I've been having. I guess it's time to get some range rental time.
Lived in downtown Kenosha during the riots. My glock 34, rmr, x300, agency comp with Flux brace and mag grip was the gun that sat in the laptop pouch of my backpack on the passenger seat for those 4 days. I own several AR's and handguns but for all the reasons you listed, I came to the same conclusion in that scenarion. Goggles, half mask, reach, extra med in the pack and big boy bottle of OC in the door pocket.
awesome comment, thanks
As the designer of the Flux Brace, this is awesome to hear brotha! 🤙 The Raider was James Reeves hurricane gun.
@@BenfromFlux wow, I’ve heard great things about it! What’s your recommended/favorite gun to use in the flux raider (looking for my next pistol.
@@JakeCamo really depends on if you want to primarily suppress it or not. I don’t think a stock p320 is very best in either scenario, for suppression, it should be a compact slide with a subcompact threaded barrel, and for non suppressed it should be compact or full size with a good comp. Favorite trigger is the legion, which can be had for $65-80.
@@BenfromFlux thanks for your input! I loved the feedback from tfbtv About it. You guys are doing great work!
Thanks for adding context to the topic! Your video really adds a lot of discussion towards the civilian application under certain requirements/restrictions.
One thing to your point, guys always think they'll go around days with a rifle strapped onto them, but most people simply have never gone around months on end doing daily things with a rifle on them. Not even talking about the muzzle slapping walls and vehicles, but while people make fun of the basic training PFC losing his rifle when he had to pick up water jugs or do whatever his two hands... keeping a slung weapon on all times really needs to be drilled into your head. Same thing with FBI/LE who left their rifles in cars and have them stolen.
The beauty of the PDW is that it's on you, either strapped on you or on a bag on you. Instant 100-200m radius, which is sufficient to E/E if needed.
This ☝️ Thanks for your video on PDWs as well. Would love to have you test a Raider and get your opinion.
The above is the reason why I have come to favor 9-12" AR pistols, especially in 300BLK or a Sig MPX K - the portability/handiness of the shorter weapon.
I grew up doing an ag job where there was an ongoing need to drop what you were doing and snap shoot at pests. The handiest gun was a foldy 10/22 with a 3x9, because you could shoot it better than a pistol and have it close to hand yet out of the way. I've always seen the need for a compact gun that has at least 1 more point of contact and an optic. You just can't overestimate how big a difference being compact has to whether it will actually be close to hand and accessible. Getting on target quickly and getting the shot in beats ballistic performance every time.
Another good thing about the braced pistol PDWs is that a lot of them have holsters if you feel like open carrying.
@@horseface31I like a loop sling. It can let the pistol hang down under a jacket and be deployed quickly and you can brace it quite well by pushing forward instead of back into your shoulder. You can shorten the overall length by not having a stock or traditional brace. Plus you don't have to worry about stupid laws.
The B&T US-320 is a very good option, very concealable and slim. I've worn this under a rain shell jacket for a few events as security because of the ability to shoulder and place a foregrip on it. The downside is the tax stamp if you prefer to live according to the AFT. But as we all know, 9mm will definitely blow the lungs out according to subject matter experts.
nice I probably will snag one here eventually.
@@BrassFacts Sir, have you had a chance to try the B&T USW-320 yet?
@@rafaeldeleon6260 I need to sbr my 320, or I need to just be a bad boy. We'll which comes first after I do the Strike industries pdw
@@BrassFacts psssst, we need a hero
It’s wonderful to see a fellow PDW enjoyer, as well as a TP9/MP9 man of culture.
I watched this a few months ago, but listening to it again I have to appreciate your description of what the “end times” would actually look like for most of us. A lot of people’s “”””SHTF””””” plans assume life will be normal one day, and they’ll be defending their home from roving bandit gangs the next.
There’s a podcast called It Could Happen Here by a war journalist who reported on conflicts in Ukraine, Syria, and Iraq, as well as a lot of the more recent civil unrest in the US. He basically describes what the breakdown of society actually looks like while interviewing people like security consultants, climate scientists, and intelligence workers, and a consistent point they describe is that society doesn’t “collapse,” but instead crumbles.
There might be isolated moments in specific places where it’s not only acceptable but prudent to walk around with an AR and plates. But for the vast majority of people, society will do its best to keep on keeping on, and we’ll all have to go to work, and the grocery store, and the gas station, just like you described. And in that situation, you’d look like a clown and make yourself a target if you were so overt.
There’s also the extremely likely possibility that in the event of crumbles and violent unrest, governments would mandate gun confiscation (like what happened after Katrina) meaning that you could bring about the ire of cops if you were obviously walking around with a gun.
tl;dr: flux needs to hurry up and let me buy a raider seriously wtf
thanks for the comment. I'll check out that podcast. Sounds interesting.
I have both a B&T TP9 SBR and a FLUX Raider, and neither were purchased by influence or fades, over the past few years the more I trained and analyzed potential future threats my weapons naturally became shorter, everyone has different priorities and threat matrixes, but I see CQB, Home Clearing, and short range engagements being at the top of my threat list.
Which do you prefer, and why?
For real outside of the home the vast majority of threat scenarios are going to be within 100 yards of your vehicle which concludes an attack by a pack of "wild philosophers" would most likely occur in a parking lot, gas station, strip mall, grocery store or stop light/sign. And the last thing you want is to be ripping 5.56 or 300 blk into a crowded area with a serious risk of over penetration like that idiot cop in LA who accidently shot a woman in a mall changing room.
Chapters:
0:00 : Introduction and use case
1:31 : Definition
3:52 : Answering the "why?"
7:40 : WROL
9:12 : Use examples
11:55 : Counter points
13:03 : PCC/AR pistol?
15:34 : PDW options
19:53 : Outro
P.S. I've been looking for a backpack gun. This might be the route I end up going. Thanks for the great content. Hope you don't mind me creating these chapters.
clutch, thanks man
Have ou tried the cheek pistol concept ?
Also bonus chapter:
2:36 : flagging with loaded gun
Finger was off the trigger but still, not ideal.
@@freedomfirst7143wahhh wahhh
For me, I went the expensive route and not PDW I went SIG Sauer MCX Rattler Pistol in 300AAC with a A3 Tactical Modular Folding Brace with Cheek Rest and QD mount. With the TREX Arms Ready Rig for 3 extra mags. I went with a SureFire Mini Scout M340C a with a SR07 and DS00. The muzzle device SureFire WarComp 7.62 and a SureFire SOCOM300 SPS2 suppressor. The optic is an Aimpoint CompM5B with an ARD. I added an extended 10in rail from Midwest Industries. I have a BlueForce Gear Vickers 221 sling on it. The 300AAC mags are Lancer System L5AWM smoke translucent mags. The ammo is Underwood Subsonic 194 grain maximum expansion.
Something I think most people don't usually consider about the practicality of the braced handgun PDW concept is the fact that the average person does not have much experience with being in firefights or stressful self defense situations. No matter how good of a shot you are, when the adrenaline and fear kick in all at once it's very difficult to shoot calmly and accurately, this is why most combat-type shootings (think gang shootouts, police/criminal shootouts) see way more shots fired than shots that found their target. A handgun with a functional brace like this one is something that can be used reflexively and can mitigate a lot of the dexterity issues that come with extreme adrenaline and intense fear. We all would like to believe we won't freak out the first time the shots start coming back, and some are able to keep it inside, but too many people are out there thinking they're going to be able to fend off a gang of scavengers or suppress a group of soldiers with just a compact handgun and that's why they discount this type of thing. This is something that will literally increase the average person's chances of survival in a broad variety of situations where they might have to use their gun, and i think not enough people are thinking about that. There's a strong argument to be made that these type of braces actually make shooting and handling these pistols much more safe.
Thankk you for actually pushing new ideas and becoming the most relatable prepping channel to me. I frequently find myself ironically watching those ''Top 5 guns you need for SHTF'' just to hear the constant:
-PIstol (but really a Glock)
-Combat rifle (but really an AR-15)
-Pump shotgun (but really a Mossberg or a Remington)
-.22 (but really a Ruger 10/22)
-Hunting bolt action
And while there are good reasons for all of those*, their actual usage is always poorly defined/presented.
* F%ck bolt action hunting rifles, you couldn't pay me to leave my house with one of those after collapse (at least alone).
I mean if you're trying to hunt an elk, moose, or caribou, a bolt gun in a magnum caliber is really nice to have. I think it's regionally dependent.
@@LordPerique having a rifle that can easily overcome the relatively common soft bulletproof vests or more easily disable non armored vehicles is a significant consideration and a bolt action is a significantly more accessible and affordable than any semiautomatic rifle in something 308 and up. It's not an ideal option but just about anyone can afford a bolt action
IV8888's top 5 lists really are always the same 7ish guns.
Bolt guns are nice, but for me up here in Alaska, my Marlin 1895 guide gun in .45-70 is the better option.
@@Scrap_Goblin RIP cheap Mosins
You pretty much sold me on the concept... but more for day hikes to deal with bears. Something like this in 10mm might be the ticket to increase lethality. Nice job!
I feel like 10mm is the ideal caliber for this platform
I was traveling once with both a rifle and a flux raider in my car. When stopping at hotels, with all of the stuff I was moving with, it made infinitely more sense to bring the flux raider with me, rather than lug an entire rifle/SPR into a hotel room, which would have been stupid obvious, I’m a big proponent of these PDW‘s for a lot of commonly forseen situations
There's a lot of innovation to be had in this segment for companies. I'd like to see more offerings in 5.7, 10mm, and 45 for 45 super. All of these can fit in the confines of the size requirement and in this platform you can get the magazine size and recoil management you can't easily get in a handgun.
7.5FK BRNO could fit into this category as well but sadly it's too expensive and only one company currently produces it. It's performance for it's size certainly would make it a great PDW chambering
I 100% believe that the 3 most necessary guns are an AR/AK style weapon, a good conceal carry handgun, and a PDW. Each one of them has traits that the others do not.
It depends on what you need. I think that a rifle isn't as necessary for self-defense civilian use. I think even for home defense a shotgun is superior.
Unless you live where you have a large plot of land, a rifle isn't ideal. For the majority of people a pistol would be sufficient with a pdw expanding capabilities. Keep in mind the majority of people live in cities and suburbs. Walking around with a rifle garners unwanted attention.
My personal choice is an AR 9 pistol (9mm glock mag adapter) glock (17) combo with an extra rifle upper to cover all the bases. It's the best bang for your buck. If for some reason I need a rifle caliber I can just remove the adapter and slap on the rifle upper. I can still pack everything in a bag.
This video came out at a perfect time as I have been warming up to really stepping up my own preparedness and was pretty much stumbling across this exact concept on my own. Excellent write up as always.
Whats funny is a lot of the more popular 3d printed gun designs fit into this space really well, especially considering the price. For instance, the Recession Ruger. AR-15 fcg, Ruger P80 series slides, takes Glock mags. A tad longer than the Flux Raider, but much, much cheaper if you own a 3d printer.
I think this is because the sbr tax makes this sort of gun more of a niche thing than it would be otherwise, so people designing 3d printed guns make things for this niche more than commercial manufacturers do.
As always, great video brother. Love your stuff and feel like you are one of the only true reviewers out here, which is why I started a small channel myself. Keep the other guys on their toes and the dogs in the videos. Love it brother.
I have a Scorpion (not a factory K, those didnt exist when I got it) and did a barrel chop down to 4.25" with a 3 lug, and always ran a folding brace on it. Right now I have a stamp out to put a Zhukov stock on it to get rid of the tailhook. Folded with the tailhook it was like 13.5" long. The 20rd factory mags were great for storage. It easily fits in a basic backpack like a Jansport or you could probably even throw it in a messenger back or laptop case if you wanted to look like a professional.
Never fired any of the chassis systems for handguns or the TP9, but the Scorpion is pretty cool in this config. Easily concealable in a very small bag, and still very capable with a red dot, easy to mount my Omega 9k, and takes reliable, cheap 35rd Magpul mags. The size is perfect where you can keep it in the bottom of your little Jansport backpack underneath the clothes and other stuff you need for a quick trip of a few days. My one little backpack that would never turn a head of the most discerning eye can easily fit 3 days worth of clothing, my Scorpion, a few 35rd mags, toothbrush, deodorant, etc phone chargers, and any other necessary stuff you would need to be out of town a few days and still have some capability.
Because of limited funds a Recover Tactical brace for my G19 MOS has filled the role of "Studio Apartment PDW" handsomely. I have the angled foregrip, lightweight sling, weapon light, and run 24rd OEM mags in it ( the Glock has a Holosun 508 up top). Any port in a storm and all of that...
I have a Recover brace on my Glock 20. It makes a nice little hog gun.
I actually really like my recover tactical. I think it does 80% of what a “real” PDW does. If not more.
Through a TON of research imo the flux raider (expensive mags and they don’t like silencers) usw-a1 ( expensive mags but actual pistol size) and the recover 20/20 (if you already have an mrds Glock) is only $100, sure it’s janky and not ideal but for an add on to your carry gun gosh it’s hard to beat
@@deskgamesix That is a pretty close facsimile of "Thumper", a Jeff Cooper idea of what our support troops should be carrying instead of a rifle.
Recover brace is incredible for the money and leeway.
We found that the recover 2020 was the superior option due to price, break down, ergos and when in its best configuration (red dot mounted via slide), great for Nods, return to zero and out of all options listed the best bang for buck when paired with a long slide/ g34 with a can or a 17. If you only had one gun scenario this would play a huge roll into that even better if you can do a two system with a primary 34/ long build and a concealable or standard G 19/17. We an spit balled options a couple years back and compared some of these to an MP5 and Short AR, it was clear that the concept could be had even with a can on. I'm glad you brought up the topic itself but now the whole community and even more interestingly the companies will most definitely shift in the years to come.
Congrats, you've converted me to your PDW cause I have a P10c riding in a B&T chassis outfitted with a trijicon RMR, BCM vert grip, and omega 9k (side note, you need a p10F barrel to have enough clearance for a suppressor, the charging handle gets in the way otherwise) . If I opt for the VFG there is no room for a light so I've been contemplating JB welding/permatex-ing a small picatinny rail to the left side. The other option is JB welding a trex arms light bar to the left side. Options, options.
I would like to see an follow up to this concept if the contingent of no more braces makes getting a tax stamp and regulation a prerequisite for getting into the “PDW” game.
Only if you comply.
You’ve done a great job championing explicit roles in your armory. I got a mk12 based on your “Urban is not CQB” after being certain I was getting an ak.
The PDW is good, but I’m unsure if it’s better than large frame pistols at long distance, and worth mentioning at less than 100yrds in the hands of competent shooters.
A+ content. You’re the most shared content creator for me now.
“Have a good one.”
You’re like the modern Nuttin’ Fancy. Lengthy reviews/vids but all great and entertaining info 👌
That's almost an insult
@@AKS-74U ha.... my thought as well.
@@AKS-74U 😆 how? I meant it as a good thing
Define lengthy lol. His videos are far better than Nuttin Fancy for the length alone haha
@@ErikAndersonNorthStar more than 12 mins
First lmao!
I was inside on the video. So I was first'er
@@striker5570 I am Brock's father so I am even more firstest
The first shall be last.
If you ain’t first… you’re last
How in the fuck?? 2 days ago? This just came out! Hop I thought you were better than these lowly cheats!
"Here is a military standard issue single use rocket launcher. Welcome to my TED talk on why you should own 12"
As someone who carries an M18 professionally as a primary weapon, that handgun shooting comment hit close to home.
When I get back stateside I definitely need to practice more.
The civvy mac-11 fires from a closed bolt, and the uppers are available pretty cheap. Lowers like the mac & cheese enable use of common parts like glock mags and AR trigger packs. This enables easy use of something like binary trigger or FRT, if thats your jam.
Got my Recover Tactical for my Glock 19, 33rd mag, 24rd on board backup, and Octane 45 suppressor for mine! Great video keep em coming 👍
Super impressed with how you're consistently putting out these 20+ min videos loaded with great info. Keep it up bro.
Just came here to say my state just got granted the right for its citizens to carry outside the home. A unconstitutional law that stood for more than a century. As a lifelong resident of 23 years in nj I never thought I would see the day that “justifiable need” wasn’t needed. This may not seem like a big deal to anyone but for gun owners in nj like myself this couldn’t be bigger.
That was for New York.
So Jersey also?
@@complexblackness NY, NJ, MD, DC, CA, HI all have basically the same may issue policies in place and as a result all 6 should be expected to change soon, yes.
@@Itsamemario0510 it already has changed. Our stupid AG and governor could have spent money on lawsuits to prolong the inevitable but they actually conceded that they will have to let people carry no matter what, they already switched out the guidelines on the gov website yesterday to carry erasing the “justifiable need” requirement (aka permission from daddy government). These politicians know that if they mess around with this ruling that the judges will come back and make the opinions even more narrow and specific, this case covered the may issue states but can possibly affect the shall-issue states a little later on as the lawsuits get appealed to higher courts. There is very little to no history informed by text and tradition in regards to the shall-issue permitting. Any new law or existing laws on the book now need to pass this constitutional muster.
why would you ever comply with a law like that?
@@Official_AFT MD hasn't yet. The statement was basically "we know. Don't flood us with requests yet."
For me, my "travel gun" is a short barrel AR with a LAW folder. It fits into a backpack neatly with room to spare for a micro rig and I'd be carrying my handgun on my body so I'm not storing it in said bag. This bag would still have enough room for things like first aid and if I really want to stretch it, minor things like a change of shirt, underwear, socks, meds but if I'm traveling, I'd have a duffel bag for those kinds of stuff anyway.
For me, a PDW like this is for specific places that would make carrying a heavier short barrel AR in a backpack is too cumbersome. If I were say going to the mall all day, or if I am going back to college, the FLUX would fit very nicely in a sorta satchel that I can just sling across my chest or back and won't be noticeable to people just walking by me. Especially in a mall setting or a fair or a walk through the park.
Enjoyed the hell out of this video, lots of good things to think about. The last couple years have gotten people, myself included, thinking about guns that fit in the PDW role. I'm finishing up a .300blk AR build that collapses down to 20" and I'm definitely going to be taking a lot of the points you've made here into account.
This is an area in the firearms industry where I'd love to see more innovation. My first thought would be an RT 20/20 *style* brace system for a Sig p365 with a slide mounted optic (to avoid return to zero issues). A brace system like that could be kept in a bag or a vehicle without theft concerns, but convert a CCW pistol into a formidable PDW in seconds.
I 100% agree with you. I don't leave a gun in the car because of the theft risk. But I do always have my Hellcat on me. Having a quick convertible option in my vehicle would be ideal.
Barrel and Hatchet, and Brass Facts are the best two rising channels
I agree with the concept. PDW's are more relatable to civilians use, then with law enforcement or military.
I would also have to add in on this conversation of shockwave shotgun lines. Gabe Suarez has talked about the validation of this type of concept. Where you need a weapon that is very specific. These PDW's fit that category of very specific.
I have an uzi pro build, absolutely amazing! A lil heavy but the recoil is almost nonexistent, best truck gun ever! I think youll be pleasantly surprised with the uzi pro, use an a3 tactical brace! Im also a lefty snd i have astigmatism so i use primary arms slx micro and a sightmark lopro up top, and an extended trigger guard. Waiting on a rs9 suppressor
What ammo do you load it with? Mine would jam on hollow points when charging it.
your vid from several months ago regarding this topic prompted me to legally sbr a glock and then put it in a kpos scout chassis. it's really cool and something i've wanted to do for a long time. thanks for the motivation!
My Bob concept is an 8 1/2" 300 AAC. With a RDS. It is a bit larger than I would like. Thinking bout adding a SA folding adapter on it. I was rockin' the CAA MCK for awhile, but that thing is nothing more, then an over priced range toy. Thanks for the share!!
Remeber when ragan was shot and the Serect Service agent pulled out a Uzi not a pistol out of his jacket? Also remember the M1 carbine followed the idea of the PDW by being a better pistol for rear eslons/ ground vehicle crew but was insanly popular with alot of units regardless? Yeah the PDW concpt is very proven and does have a place in any ones asernal.
There is the M1 Advisor pistol. It's an M1 Carbine with no stock.
And now they have the MCX rattler, so theres that.
I like these videos. They are always about basic subjects but it gets in depth alot more than most others out there
Good quality content, thank you Brass Facts
Bro you are dropping nothing but 🔥 vids, you’re realistic scenarios are very possible in my opinion keep up the great work. PS I thought you had a can for the TP9
99 days as of this post....
I agree with everything you say, except for 22 magnum. A 22 magnum in a PDW would be really effective, I think. 22 Mag is about twice as powerful as 22lr, and it has surprisingly good ballistics, even out of a 5 inch barrel. But, this conversation is moot, because they don't make a PDW style weapon in 22mag that would work. Great vid though!
Isn't there a keltec in that category?
Forgot to mention the hood PDW: The MAC10/11. Has some of the same weaknesses of the micro uzi but man is it versatile! Braces, stocks, slings, strap hanger, foregrips, barrel attachments, and if you go down the rabbit hole of MAC uppers...
Very interesting take on the PDW… I have used the MCK with a folder… but have since moved to a DD PDW (which does it align with your PDW requirements). The way my bag is designed, I can pull out my laptop without every exposing my concealed weapons area. That being said, in badly carry is not something I have every attempted and if I did, it could only happen in the colder months. You have definitely provided some points of consideration.
This video wasn't actually the video that sold me on the pdw concept, it was one of the levels of collapse videos where you talked about how impractical it is in almost every scenario to be using a AR15. I've been really looking to get a flux raider but they are truly unobtainable
Working on it, got a couple molds that are almost finished. More Raiders coming.
You can pay a scalper $1000 or you can be on a waiting list for.....ever.
I dig the concept you're going with here. For folks in urban and Suburban areas I think this is definitely a consideration that has to be taken into mind. I'm going to go with something a little bit larger for a PDW, in the AO I am in it makes sense. Rural TX, more space for storage, longer distances and less of a cultural shock than say Seattle. Yet the core concepts are similar.
I wouldn't rule it out though for rural areas. If you ever had to carry a weapon 24/7, a rifle gets cumbersome. Getting in and out a vehicles, preparing food, using the bathroom, sleeping, ect all gets old with a rifle. Even if it's lightweight like an m4 or m16, you get tired of carrying it around.
Thank you for including the mag drop blooper. It happens to the best of us.
Great video guys. It’s good to see others seeing the value in the PDW. Well done gents.
hah, funnily I'm about to buy your sling. Was recommended to me
Jane's Revenge today: "We're gonna burn it all to the ground"
Brass Facts: "You need a PDW in a bag." Lol
Impeccable timing my friend.
It's dangerous; here take this
@@BrassFacts I have been packing my P320 USW alot more now than before.
The PDW is the grey area of weapons, but the best for a grayman look, IMHO.
Haven't finished the video, but pdw is a sound concept
VERY GOOD VIDEO!!!! Thank you 🙏 very quality and great info
The civilian PDW concept is perfect for suburban and city life.
The recover 20/20 with a slide mounted optic is great. I don't have any issues with the optic height, no return to zero issues, it takes one screw to remove it from the chassis to have a pistol form factor ready-to-go, and it takes one screw to take it out of the chassis to fit the pistol into a case for air travel.
I'm looking to get an SBR kel-tec P50 with the Kel-Tec P50 carbine conversion stock for the 50 round capacity reason. 1 spare mag gives you 100 rounds total and each 5.7x28 mm cartridge weighs half that of a 9mm cartridge. Downside is the cost per pew and a bit more bulk.
I'm intrigued by the cheek pistol concept because it potentially makes rifle calibers more reasonable for EDC. If I could carry a rifle caliber with no compromises other than a little extra training I think that might be the way to go.
A system like this in 7.5 FK BRNO would be a massive game changer
Or just a hot 10mm
flux Glock longslide with a 9x25 would be better than a 7.5 because even if it's reloading dependant it actually exists.
I wish flux would make more braces for other pistols, the PSD with the flux system would be pretty nice
@@kobeh6185 We will. Just a matter of both resources and market size.
@@michaelbranz101 10mm does not penetrate soft armor like 7,5fk.
I went down this road of thought a few times. In the end, the primary feature of an SMG is select fire capability. If I am going to be slinging 9mm at semi auto rate, I'll just double down on pistol training and have a rifle handy. A full size pistol in well trained hands is very effective.
Btw so happy you made this video you have personally sold me on the idea of a civilian pdw
My PDW is a Glock Model 40 MOS in a RT 20/21 brace. The Glock has suppressor sights which cowitness nicely with a Holosun 407C. It rides folded on a sandbag cradle in my truck's center console. When I'm going in somewhere I place it in a little nondescript laptop bag (no molle, no camo, no Punisher emblems). The 20/21 can be difficult to use without a mounted optic but with a red dot it is a machine. I've killed multiple hogs with my set up and it is as rugged as it needs to be. Additionally, with its holster I can carry under a jacket. It brings me comfort when I'm away from my home and my ARs. It is a good alterative when even an AR pistol is just too big.
I personally like having one that I feel like I can operate a steering wheel with and use at the same time. And if I can get more power than my carry 9mm that's a plus. So that kind of rules out my 300 Rattler but my MP-57 fits this need perfect. I can keep 100+ 57 rounds in my pocket and they weigh nearly nothing and pack a hell of a punch. Paired with a Rattler folding brace it's accurate as hell too. It can conceal easiest also and can even fit in a tiny lunchbox.
yeah, if I have room for all that, I'm taking the Rattler. 😐
@@mumblety96 if u think u can operate one single handed and be effective be my guest. They will work. But just not for everything. I have 2 Rattlers actually. One is a canebrake and the other is a shorty. Both are 300 and chunky. Both are a little long to run behind a steering wheel while driving also. Even my MPX-K is a little chunk. Just something to consider
@@hughgrection3052 😁 totally valid point on the control aspect. 9mm pistol for that (for me). 🍸
@@mumblety96 dam I forgot about holding the beer!😁
I really think this whole PDW idea holds up. Your ideas on the subject are well thought out. That said, I think a super short .300blk or a K style pcc can work a little better than you think, but only if you have a vertx bag. With the separate back pocket set up to hold the gun and the main compartments set up for everyday stuff it totally fixes the issue of concealment. The big downside it can't fix is weight, but that comes down to every individual's tolerance for a heavier bag. I think the PDW is a better fit for the job, but if I had to, that's how I would make the larger gun work.
That's what I've done.
Im just not confident in the versatility of a pistol caliber PDW. Instead I went with a 7.5" 300blk AR pistol that has a folding brace. Similar recoil to a 9mm PCC with a lot more bark & bite. Ammo cost is a consideration, but something with a special purpose can have a little more of a budget. It fits in my travel backpack with 3 mags of polymer tips, looks inconspicuous and is fast to deploy.
@@SuspiciousGanymede That's basically what my experience is too. I don't really like pccs for practical purposes unless there's no other option. My buddy has a 9in .300blk MCX that fits perfectly in my Vertx EDC 2.0 pack with a modlite and eotech. It's WAY heavier than any PDW but it also offers a lot more capability. As always the trade-off is being harder to carry, easier to fight with.
@@Doc41295 your last sentence sums it up perfectly. I wouldn't carry my AR pistol in a bag unless i was expecting a hostile climate (like working into late afternoon near a place expecting riots).
I have found through lots of testing and practice that a carry caliber handgun 9mm and up with a red dot in any barrel length will cover your bases out to 75yds. JHP stop expanding past that distance.
Interesting concept…thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree with the PDW concept, I have a hard time with off-body regularly.
I got lucky enough to get one of the Flux Defense G19 braces before they went out of production. I also stuck an FGGK-S front grip on my glock so that it can cover the trigger, acting as a real safety. Then I took a key ring and put it through the hole in the bottom of the magwell, and that's where I put a strap. That way, I can hang my setup under a loose coat or vest and not draw a second glance.
I saw in the footage you tried attaching the strap to the back of the brace on the Raider, and you had to manually lock it every time you released it. This is another reason I went with the keyring. It hangs in a very convenient orientation so that I easily draw, pop the stock, unfold the grip and fire immediately.
Curious what you think about having a QD mount on the barrel for a suppressor, or a Lasermax guide rod with this setup.
I used to use a normal CZ Scorpion Pistol with a brace when I had to to to school on campus, mid riots
Was fine
Had a level IV plate and medical
City was basically patrolled by Antifa and gangs. There was quite a bit of fire
Personally I've seen the Uzi as the AK-47 of the SMG world. It's simple but still reliable if you can get around its gimmicks.
I want the AR of SMG/PDW world. The MP7 has many of the features we're looking for.
A grip fed gun running 9mm or 5.7 (depending on if you want mag compatibility) through a 5.5-6 inch barrel with a collapsible brace is what we need.
Good stuff, I dont have either of these bit I've been testing a chassis system by recover tactical called the 20/20 with my glocks and so far I've been pretty pleased. Definitely not the same as what you're showing but a very nitch style system that has alot of pluses
Cool video bro. I definitely like the concept
I would argue that a 10mm might be better more power to go along side the added stability without losing that many rounds
I agree with most of your points here. Curious, where does the mcx rattler fall for you in this niche? Too big?
Im thinking a p365 of sorts and a rattler would would be a nice setup.
too big.
Dang throwing shade and my beloved Keltec cp33
I know I'm way late to the comment party, but I was rather surprised you didn't mention the USW-320 chassis. I'd consider it to be the single best alternative to the FLUX (personally I prefer it because it's even smaller), and it is pretty cheap compared to the other options. About the only real downside is the low optic height, but I haven't found that to be a major problem. Overall excellent video and the best case for the modern PDW I've seen yet.
3:00 Yes you can, I have one right here. A KAK 4.75" barrel and a Dead Foot Arms 2.5 SCW makes for a exactly 15".
Now that's to the muzzle, no muzzle device. I have a VOX-K can on it, which makes it 18-3/4" But a birdcage would keep it under 16".
neat. I would still consider that "not small" but that's for sure not large.
Thanks for the heads up. Didn't know it existed.
@@BrassFacts Now that I've watched the entire vid, I very much agree with the concept, have for a while. However sadly so far I find the market lacking and it appears you do as well. I don't have a good answer except the above, and if WROL comes I'll likely just make a side folder for whatever pistol I like at the time.
I also think it's a bit much as an EDC pistol and bag PDW concept. They're too similar without being the same. That is if your EDC is very small you don't have mag/ammo compatibility. If you choose a setup with mag/ammo compatibility they're too similar. Maybe better to carry a few happy sticks vs another gun.
A Raider in its smallest configuration with a suppressor is 14 inches long, half the weight, and likely recoils much less, with it being delayed blowback.
@@BenfromFlux New reply now that I know who you are.......
I've been following Flux Defense for a while, I'm not a big Glock fan but had I been able to get a Flux Brace I would have bought the gun just as a brace host, lol.
Raider vs small AR, more application dependent than anything else, apples to oranges so to speak.
Isn't the Raider sill tilting barrel though?
FWIW this little AR of mine has a titanium carrier also cut down by DFA so light, and I usually load it with 100gr 300BLK, so pretty soft.
Personally I don't know if I'd buy a Raider if they were in stock right now. Need to learn more and think about applications. Where would I want to carry a Raider but not my little AR, a bigger pistol, or just more mags, IDK, pretty slim application for a civilian.
@@snek9353 Oh damn! I thought you were talking about a 9mm build, of which dead foot builds are common. Yes, for sure different, I have many shorty ARs, mostly in 7.62x39, but also in 300 black.
Yes, unfortunately, still tilting barrel action. I have designed some other systems, but those are pretty far down the road. That said, it’s very accurate, and very, very reliable.
I have serious doubts about the terminal ballistics of 300 black out of a sub 7 inch barrel, I have looked and looked for good tests and have never found them. So until I have good evidence to believe it is still more than a pistol round out of that short of a barrel, I will act as if it is a powerful pistol cartridge (As in, not buy and set them up). I hope that it is very capable, but I cannot find evidence of it.
I have various folding shorty ARs setup in various backpacks - I never end up bringing them to anywhere but the range, as the added size and weight is just not worth it when I have an option that holds 40 rounds, is much quicker, and is barely bigger or heavier than a pistol. I think big pistols are stupid, I can shoot better with my P365 build, and I’m solving the capacity issue, making it a non issue. If I’m going to use a pistol, it’s going to be no bigger than a G19, and if I have space for something larger, I’m going to use a system that has 40 rounds on the gun and I can stack all of those rounds with rapid fire on a head sized target.
While I love what you are selling here, and you have convinced me to buy something and try it, you can indeed get shorty AKs inside your length requirement, but they do indeed end up being "the thing in your bag", and they are heavy. (I think the AK would be a better choice than the MP5K sized options.)
fair enough
My thoughts exactly, a micro Draco would rule!!!
Weight is definitely a factor. I have many shorties, and 7.62x39 or 300 black is the best caliber for those, I have both AKs (micro draco) and folding ARs… I have backpacks for these, but carrying the Raider compared to carrying my smallest, lightest rifle platform build is a night and day difference, both because of the weight and because of the size difference. So I have options, but I never end up carrying my rifle caliber guns.
@@BenfromFlux that’s exactly what occurred to me thanks to this video. A lighter and smaller shoulder fired gun sounds very very intriguing. I’m in.
@@yayarx7 I started down this road with 7.62x39 many years ago, I love it, but it certainly has its drawbacks. Besides the weight and bulk, it recoils a lot more, and the concussion is rough against hard barriers, IMO it requires a suppressor or similar muzzle device. Again, I still have mine setup, and it’s my second choice behind my Raider, I just never end up bringing it along except to shoot it.
Amazing content yo
Do you think something like an SBR version of a GAU-5A would ever work in a bag? I know it obviously won't be as fast to put into action, but what about for something like the car scenario you mentioned?
I've used a Micro Roni gen 4 brace with a G22 and an RDS that runs like a boss. Great to shoot and dead eye dick out to 50. On another topic, where do you think all of this is going to land with the coming ATF brace rules?
I just can’t get over the investment of a sub par round. With body armor becoming more popular if I carry a bag gun I want more firepower. Great content and I enjoy all the videos🇺🇸🤘🏻
some people will see value in it. others will use it as a catalyst to git gud with the handgun. Imo both are good (actually the hand gun is slightly better)
Someone needs to make a 5.7 mp7 ish thing.
@@7gerez they do. Search MP-57
@@BrassFacts body armor is also ruled out a bit more when having a braced weapon, they enable fast, accurate, repeated headshots even at longer ranges easier. Because plates now can stop even 30-06 AP rounds. So the ability to pop specific places on enemies becomes, to me at least, a better option than trying to go thru the armor
It reminds me of the LA bank robbers that time that wore even flexible armor pants. No one with pistols could hurt them due to inaccurate fire. Only when long guns was passed out to the police was they able to shoot thier feet etc and get control of the situation. Tough to do without a stocked weapon unless super close. So people have to think outside the box when imagining fighting vs armored enemies. Even armpits are better targets. Just bypass the armor and go for soft spots and you'll be fine. If you can do so due to adrenaline and inaccurate fire, we'll you're dead lol
Great video as always. I've been thinking about getting a flux brace for my P320
I run a Glock 23 with a 6” 9mm conversion barrel in a MCK w brace and a Romeo5. I have half a dozen Magpul 21 round mags and a few magpul 27 rounds. Rides around in a Dewalt toolbag my 20v impact gun came in.
I think I gave $185 for the MCK, $300ish for the Glock , about $100 for the sight, and $120 for the barrel. My G22 and my G44 also fit in the MCK, and I use it on the farm in all configurations. It works well enough, for the money.
Kinda wish I had just got a Stribog, tbh. At the time they were about $1200 with a sight and brace, and I just couldn’t justify it. Now they are more like $900
Im lucky that I was able to get a raider chassis at msrp because holy shit those scalper prices. also every time I went to buy one they were sold out in like 2 minutes which is insane
yep :(
What do you think of it?
@@BenfromFlux I like the size of it allot I normally keep it in the car. I also had a p320 before I knew about the brace so it ended up working out for me
Pee De Dub-a-yah!
When I bought my first handgun (and only gun) I was exploring concepts like this to see if I could push my system in any way to cover the absence of a long format weapon.
Ended up watching videos like from short barrel shepherd on glock carbine kits and bag guns.
One of my biggest issues was that none of the options were ever really expediently convertible. Like you have to configure it as a pdw and stow it, and converting back and forth would require seclusion or might be finicky in a car seat.
And the other big problem was, for any that are small enough to be concealable, holster compatibility.
Basically only the flux was able to do this, but it requires it's own proprietary holster system, and it's length of pull is so short.
With all those problems I questioned it's usability.
Ended up getting a cheap brace adapter that is relatively quick to install that I simply configure when I get to my end destination when traveling.
You can thank the NFA for "suppressing" the free market with regards to PDWs.
3:15 Having the magazine in the pistol grip does not benefit compactness as much as one may think. Grip-fed guns by design must have their receivers extend further rearward to accommodate for bolt travel. Guns that have the magazine forward of the trigger can have the rear of the receiver terminate at the pistol grip, making up for the length added up front. Comparing an MP5K to an MP9/TP9 clearly shows this. I would argue that for barrel lengths of 4-5", the mag forward design would actually have better ergonomics for the same size, since adding the length forward of the pistol grip instead of behind provides more real estate for the support hand as well as any lights/lasers.
Of course, having the mag in the grip has other benefits such as being more "holsterable," especially if a PDW were designed specifically for that purpose. Personally, I would love to see a pistol-grip fed, integrally suppressed PDW, something akin to a Maxim 9 with a telescoping stock and a folding forward grip that automatically deployed on unholstering. Such a weapon may actually be practical to conceal on body instead of in a bag if conditions permit the appropriate clothing.
As always, great video! Glad to see your channel is growing. Keep it up!
came here from discord to shit on the video
based. gotta keep me humblee
I carry a braced APK9k with Deadair Wolfman in short configuration in a vertx commuter sling with the grip facing zipper. When I swing bag around my right side I open zipper, grab the grip and flip it over as I extend the brace! Deployment and first shots in about 2-3 seconds and hearing safe!! Goes everywhere with me
I appreciate your view and perspective I have the same glad I found your Channel
Man a Glock or a Taurus with a MCK is great. You have a concealable HG that you have on its own that you can extend into a PDW with a chassis. keep a 15 round in the HG and keep 2 30's in a bag with the chassis your set
So what if you got a springfield xd9 mod2 or a sig sauer m18
@@jtoast the MCK has options that fit the XD, I believe they have some that fit P320s and I believe they have one in the works for am m18. As for the extended mags I'm not sure about what is around. For my Taurus I have 3 12 round mags trying to source larger ones.
that,s it so going for one like this never was a big fan of pistols but know they become reall fun and tactical with a punch thanx
Ordered one halfway through the vid. Thanks!
B&T announced a couple of days ago that it will bring the TP380 to the US market. Finally I will have something else to use my large stock pile of .380 acp (the G42 was my first gun and got a little carried away with the “prepper” stuff…)
Good insight! I think a super concealable pdw is much more likely to be used along with soft body armor compared to a full blown AR and plate carrier setup.
Really fantastic video! I’m more sold on the PDW. Years ago before there were braces I was experimenting with a Cobray M11 Which had amazing accuracy out to 100 yards but had no means of stabilization. I’m hoping more guns will come out in this category because I think it fits a really great niche. I kind of think the Masterpiece Arms family of firearms may also be a viable option that is not often seen online I’m just not aware of the quality of parts that they use.
How does one feel about the mpx copperhead? That fits the bill of under 15" and I would think maybe 12"? Still too bulky/noticeable for backpack?
While it is heavy and bulky, the Maxim Defense PDX (.300 blakcout) comes in with an 18.25" OAL and fits in a low pro hiking bag like a dream. Pro tip: use cardboard as a false floor for your PDW bag.
As a poor, my MCK Gen 2 with the aluminum rail (my Romeo 5 held zero just fine) fit the bill for me for a long time. I carried it in the main compartment of a navy blue, 5.11 LV10 sling bag on one side of the divider and had a small IFAK and two additional 24 round magazines. I was able to keep my laptop and iPad in the rear compartment, never exposing the MCK. I loved the idea that I could ditch the MCK and still have my G19 if the situation dictated it.
I carried this setup with me nearly everywhere and never got a second glance.
More recently I purchased a Ruger Charger and with the SB FS1913 brace folded, a MWI handguard and Inforce WML mounted at 12 o’clock, it is an even more compact (albeit heavier) package. This allows me to keep my G19 on my person with a dedicated light. I’m not sure I prefer one over the other although the weight penalty of the Charger does give me pause.
I’m very interested in exploring the Flux Raider. Hopefully, they become more readily available sometime soon.
Great video.
I have the same bag and use it with a RT 2020.
Bought a Vityaz this month no regrets. 9mm great hallow point rounds for self defense or backpack gun. Slapping a supressor on it and it’s ready for indoor use if I unfortunately need to use it.
I think a compact PDW could come in handy as a "truck" gun even in normal times, not just civil unrest. Great video by the way.
Great points and commentary.