Attack of the Exceptionally Talented Drum Programmers!!
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- Last week we discussed if programming drums takes any talent....apparently that was going a little too far, according to some!
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You know Glenn means it when the microphone distorts.
Actually I think Glenn could pull off a pretty good hardcore scream if he put his mind to it (yes, I'm serious!)
It’s time like these where I wish we could see the distressor in the background.
Yeah, since he's set it up to never distort you know he means business.
BTW, Glenn ain't no boomer. Solidly Gen X. We really are a lost generation. Boomers claim Gen X members like my older brother even though my parents were children when WWII ended. And younger folks push middle Gen X into the boomer age.
He may have to feature himself on the next butthurt of the week
LOL!
Glenn: hits a snare
Me: ...
Glenn: adjusts throwoff tension
Me:...
Glenn:hits snare again
Glenn: Let's see a sample do that..
TRUTH!
The video is literally a sample.
I'm gonna sample that snare
Get good drums and superior drummer 3 already do that.
I think he was just asking for people to sample that.
Oneroomy im always amazed by how out of touch he is with technology he’s afraid of.
Glenn vs The World
FRICK THE WORLD!
I always root for the underdog, even this asshole.😜
@Jack 9-5 is 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. Theres 168 hours in a week. There's plenty of time for developing and maintaining skills lol
@Jack yead right most of the most listened to metal bands nowadays are only composed of one man... Or Not. They weren't created at the same time, it might be harder to be well known as a band right now, but that doesn't mean you have to be a one man band to be successful. Actually, I'd argue that a one man band that uses samples and other programmed things(not just a singer sitting with his guitar and nothing else) shouldn't even be called a BAND!
But well, after all's said and done, music's supposed to be an art and you can only judge it from your point of you as there's no absolute truth. Some people might like programmed drums and such, some others don't. But in the end, the only thing that matters is it IS different having a drummer playing a drum set than having samples timelined.
@Jack Assuming sarcasm, then wtf are you talking about "we don't have the time"
For the second drum programmer comment, i'd like to point out Devin Townsend. Amazing musician, probably better composer.
That's the thing with drum programing. It's composing. It's a different musical talent, just like mixing and actually playing are different musical talents
I'd still rather a live drum recording than samples in the context of rock and metal, but it works fine for hip hop and pop
Yeah ziltoid was killer.
I agree!, It's composing. I would love to be have a band with an amazing drummer playing my music, or work with an amazing drummer and work on stuff as a band, but probably not going to happen anytime soon (if ever)!
This. There’s no difference in programming drums from writing orchestral progressions on a keyboard. Other than the fact that it’s rhythm instead of harmony.
Composition is meant to be writen down for someone to play it as the composer meant it to be heard so it can be played in a recording or life and not for a machine. Yes there is talent in composing but it's not the same talent as playing skill. His gripe is that most stop at just composing and not taking the time to play it. Most of us can sit here and write polyrhythms but can't perform them. That's the issue there.
On the other hand, listen to deadhead live at the RAH with live drums and compare it to the studio version. No contest
"Yeah, tell us when that happens" "they all sound the same" "I like to hear real human performance"
You've been fooled on your own show by programmed drums, the hell are you talking about?
@Sergio yes
LOL, this is hilarious. You're talking to a brick wall dude.
But not from a composition standpoint. He was fooled because the snare sound sounded weak and realistic.
Glenn, I hear you going for that mic clipping effect on your screams. Have you ever considered cupping the mic? I've heard it works wonders!
Apparently
@Sergio Is he going for proximity effect to boost the low end though?
Jeez, makes me feel bad for being just a solo guitarist who just wants to make his own music alone without wanting to rely on other people.
Dont let bitter people stop you
Same Here, I feel ya!
Ditto. I live in an apartment with a 10 year old and an 8 month old. Composing my own midi drums is literally the only way I can have drums in my music without hiring a drummer with their own recording equipment.
That's not the point of the video though, so you don't need to feel bad.
It's just Glen's opinion and TBH it only matters to the music he wants to make. There is nothing wrong with doing everything yourself.
EXAMPLE: Nine Inch Nails best album (IMO), "Pretty Hate Machine" was done almost entirely by Trent Reznor... oh and of course he used a DRUM MACHINE. Yea not exactly "metal" but I'll tell you all of us on the Metal scene at the time listened to this album because it was/is awesome! On later albums he uses other musicians but TBH nothing beats that first album. So don't be discouraged by Glen and his fetish for drummer boys.
Actually yes, programming drums well does take some talent, because I can't do it very well.
Why yes, as a matter of fact I do play bass.
hahahaha that me.... but is not talent, just practice man
How many metal guitarists at a concert does it take to play a guitar solo for a song?
ANSWER: *All of them.* One to play the amazing solo, and the rest to say to a friend "that takes absolutely no talent I could do that."
im ofendend
Programming drums takes time. Not talent
Programmed drums takes no talent to perform and repeat. Actually programming them to where they sound natural does take talent.
Honestly, while there is no doubt that recording live drums takes a lot more time and work than programming drum parts, I would argue against the general statement that programming drums requires no talent, since a person with actual experience in playing drums will probably always do a better job than someone who has no idea about being a drummer.
Also, I can appreciate someone who is just, for instance, a guitar player recording at home all by himself, who takes time and effort to compose drum parts in Guitar Pro or some other software. When a band with an actual drummer does something similar... eh, not so much.
I agree. You need to know a thing or two about patterns, beats, time signatures, rudiments, and basically everything and actual drummer has to theoretically know. You then need to have a knack for setting the velocity of the hits so that it feels natural and like someone playing. A lot of my old drum sequences has the hits at the same volume, and it did actually take quite a bit of time and skill to learn how to do it right. Not everyone has access to a real drummer, nor can they afford to record one, so having programmed drums becomes more about composition rather than performance, so it's still very valid. A lot of my favourite albums have programmed drums (October Rust is the main one) and I honestly don't give a shit, becasue it sounds great.
So, when Frank Zappa was programming the drums for his album Jazz from Hell, he was exhibiting absolutely NO TALENT? Ok, good to know.
Different applications, dude.
To be fair, it was a really really really shit album.
@@sopainstantanea4887 I mean the whole root of the debate here is that Glenn has no idea how to differentiate between application here...
He's definitely talking about midi drums and copy and pasting. I doubt he means programming drum machines in the same way.
@@awh79 I mean neither of things are "programming" in the sense that musicians and producers use the term. One is loop juggling the other is literally playing the drums only the drums are a synth. Are we going to start calling keyboardists out for this too?
Same line of thinking... Producing music takes no talent. All you're doing is taking somebody else's hard work and modifying it. Fight me!
... I would like to add, this is not my opinion, rather I am absolutely perplexed how people think there is no talent in making a programmed drum piece sound like music, just because "real" drums are "better". I would LOVE to have a 200 piece orchestra at my disposal, but if I create an orchestral composition by programming all the parts, does that mean I'm not talented either?
Exactly, this whole debate is pretty moot. Composition vs. skill /dexterity are two entirely separate skillsets. I don't think many people would argue that midi drums sound better than the real deal, or that copy pasting premade midi patterns takes talent. Composing music via programming VST instruments does take talent though IMO, but hey what do I know :')
P.s. John Williams will be devastated to learn he is in fact a talentless f*ck because he doesn't play all the instruments in the orchestras playing his music.
This guy... he gets it!
Like performances, I think there are bad lazy programmings and very good well orchestrated programmings.
70s Engineers: "I captured the whole kit with 3 mics and added some light eq and compression"
Modern Engineers: "I need to use samples cuz I don't have $10,000 worth of mics and plugins"
Me: "Just give me a muffled condenser, ill do it with 1 mic"
Yes it takes talent.
Source: cringing at my own drum programming
Bro it’s just like a classical composer writing music in his notebook without knowing how to play the instrument. Beethoven didn’t play every instrument he wrote for, he was well educated enough in range techniques and the ability of the performers to have confidence in writing his Pieces. Same with drums. I’m sure both are debatable but even still. Programming drums takes effort and if it sounds good they probably are well versed is the mechanics of the instrument. Doesn’t have to always be an argument geez grow the fuck up if it sounds good and ur drummer can play, great! Especially if ur home studio or budget restricts your ability to record drums then what the fuck is the debate for. People who argue or get worked up about this aren’t open to different opinions and don’t want to understand why some people would choose one or the other.
Lars Norberg yeah but he still wrote the music they played and dictated how they were to sound. Lol read my whole comment before you refute half a valid point bro cmon.
Jack yeah man software is made to accommodate to people with specific needs. Same way ur 100watt amp has an “indoor practice mode” at .5 watts, it’s too meet the needs not cuz someone wants to play a venue at half a watt. Same principle.
Glen doesn't realize they've been using samples since the 70's.
Session musicians and cut and paste were common. For instance, The Beach Boys never played on their own albums. When using a session drummer or programmed drums, the actual drummer is still no playing on the recording. I've read that the guitar parts on Through The Fire and Flames by Dragon Force were cut and paste jobs and the guitarists learned to play the song later for live performances.
@@orlock20 excellent point.
Glen can't tell the difference between a good programmed performance and a real drummer so there's that.
Fricker's a troll. Who cares what they think? Do what's right for you.
orlock20 Yes! Even Metallica. In A Year and Half of Metallica doc they show Lars and Bob Rock cutting fills and editing from the 2 inch tape. And a few years ago there was a fascinating forum (can’t remember where it was) with Flemming Rasmussen (engineered Puppets and Justice) and he talks about the meticulous editing and cutting drum parts for Justice and Puppets, finding the best parts, fills and yes he talks about putting some snare hits on beat, I would consider that old school quantizing. He also talks about when Lars pulled the bass fader all the way down and was like fucking leave it! It’s all fascinating and I think there is more going on behind the scenes especially when millions of dollars are on the line. Then again, I can never imagine someone like Steve Albini doing this, Shellac is like a clock just perfect solid timing live and recorded.
I can't record real drums in my apartment because of my two kids. I use ezdrummer and i tweek it till it sounds like something i would want. but it is not the same as sitting there and see a real drummer do his thing.
Second that. Drum samples respond to a need and some times is either that or nothing. My country is still on lockdown and not every drummer here has mics and a interface (I have a really good friend of mine who is a great drummer but has neither of those). Drum samples can be a very useful tool when writing or making demos. Is all about the context and the need. Obviously nothing beats the real deal.
It’s pretty simple first choice is you play real drums recorded well, second choice you hire a professional session drummer to do the same, third choice ask a friend who plays and last resort is use programmed drums. Programmed drums should never be on an actual release they should be used to get an idea down before properly recording, if you exhaust choices 1-3 it’s better than nothing.
Use ez as a writing aid and when the album full of songs is done (or just the song), get a real drummer look through that stuff you wrote, help you with arranging it and then record the real drums to the album... don't let ez be the end all be all...
It doesn't matter.
Keep making music with whatever you have even if there's youtuber who owns a studio with a fully armed recording setup keep talking shit about it.
Because in the end, it's the songwriting that makes the difference.
Even the realest sounding drum tracks in the world would still sound mediocre if the song writing is mediocre.
@@tarkett8529 Unless you're an amazing drummer you should probably swap choices 1 and 2 around (if you can afford it) :D (how do I insert emojjis?)
Glenn: "Anyway, back to the show!"
RUclips: oh, nice place to put an advertise clip!
WTF why is everyone so in love with "fake" now days....Fake music, food , body parts, reality shows, life style etc.
Thanos:"Reality can often be disappointing"
wtf is a fake body part?
Because most people are morons
@@breadsanta6414 Anything you have to see a plastic surgeon for lol
I absolutely despise sample replacement but drum programming has nothing fake about it.
Let me first say that I’ve been a fan of your channel for years and I respect you as a producer. However, I disagree at some points and I’d love to hear your opinion on what I have to say.
“There are no John Bonhams nowadays”. There are tons of modern drummers out there who have their unique style and are taking music further. Some of them might use triggers and quantization because the genre of the band requires so. Take just a few examples: Matt Greiner, Matt Halpern and Clay Aeschliman. The same happens with guitar players. Sample replacement and quantization are just tools that technology offers nowadays, to make recordings sound better, depending on the genre of course. If a band prefers a raw sound or plays classic rock/metal, of course they don’t have to use these tools. But my point is I can’t imagine modern prog and djent bands, for example, where every 32nd note counts with quad tracked unedited instruments and a raw drum sound, it would be a disaster. Prove me wrong if I am. It doesn’t mean the musicians aren’t awesome, although that’s indeed the case sometimes. But better musicians are always recognized.
Even if a musician isn’t technically great but is a great composer, he has the chance to show the world his compositions, as long as he’s honest about it.
Let’s stop criticizing tools that give us more options. If someone doesn’t like them, he doesn’t have to use them. Music is constantly evolving, as old styles don’t stop existing and new interesting stuff is happening. If a band is good, it can find a way to distinguish its musical style from others, on a smaller or a larger scale. Regardless, music would be really boring if it hadn’t changed since the 80s.
Oh, and fuck you Glenn from Greece.
That’s my point: if you need to fix it with a computer, than you can’t do it.
@@SpectreSoundStudios the drummers you were talking about from the 70's and 80's didn't play super clean to a line the way some modern metal is supposed to sound. We are talking about two different things. Archspire is one of my favorite technical death metal bands that uses triggers. When I saw them live their drummer was like a machine he was so accurate. It doesn't make sense to say "John Bonham is better" because it's a completely different style we are talking about. Djent is supposed to be mechanical, that's the point. Ultimately it's more important for the album to sound as the style intends than to religiously stick to an organic performance.
If you want a more apt comparison I think modern jazz is more appropriate. Modern Jazz musicians have taken their craft to places we can hardly imagine. Drummers that can recougnize swing as tiny subdivisions to change them on the fly. Robert Searight from Snarky Puppy is a drummer I would much rather listen to then any of the classic rock legends. My taste differs, I think a lot of classic rock is great and I grew up listening to it. But there's a ton of new bands I spend a lot more time listening to now and I don't have much interest in listening to Led Zeppelin for the thousandth time. The same way you prolly didn't listen to a ton of music that was 30+ years old when you were young.
It's not a matter of older drummers being more talented. It's a matter of taste. For us, these new drummers are our John Bonhams. We will be talking about our favorites for the rest of our lives. To be fair I imagine some day us younger people will be complaining about the same thing when future bands don't sound the same. 😂
K0sm1cKid, SWIMlovesyou Perfectly said.
@@K0sm1cKid agreed my dude
Hi, let me introduce myself: John Program 😈
Hey glenn, how are drum samples different than vst pianos? They are pretty much recorded the same way, yet i never see you talking about Piano vst the same way you do drums. Thanks and cheers from Puerto Rico.
I’ve recorded sessions where I have sampled the snare to give it power because I just wasn’t quite there yet in terms of my mixing skills. I still practiced, and felt really good once I could find that great snare tone without using samples. They have their uses, but not all the time. It’s very situational so I see the argument from both sides.
Brad DeYoung exactly! It’s a learning tool/ last resort
I once asked myself why my snare wasn't giving me enough power. I first thought the converters on my interface weren't good enough. Next I was concerned about the mic pre amps. It turned out it was my playing. If you don't hit the snare right, you end up with a weak sound. If you get a weak drum sound, it is usually your drummer and not your mixing skills. a snare drum that was hit well should only need a bit of compression and some EQ and maybe some parallel compression.
Glenn: hits drum and drum is recorded, drum is now an audio recording.
"Let's see a drum sample do that."
Me: records Glenns drum hit right off of RUclips using Electribe.
Lol, thanks for the free sample.
I can see where you're coming from, thanks for the response man. Totally agree that actually playing the parts and hearing the drummer is way more respectable.
As for me, drum samples are my only alternative for the time being. Once I can afford a real kit and the necessary recording gear, hopefully I can make the transition!
Music isn't a competition. Why is this even a discussion? Programming drums does take talent - but that's irrelevant. Talent has nothing to with making music. Shredding for 50 minutes at 500 bpm with constant blast beats takes a lot of talent, does it make a good song? Nope.
can't say I'd ever want to see a band live without a real drummer
Don't go to a Sisters of Mercy concert in the 80s then.
I have. I've also seen a few bands without vocalists (lip sync). I've also seen many bands to drunk to operate (I'm looking at you VH).
They all sucked.
@@Mark761966 theyre still going, went to see them back in march, im a fan of their recorded material, but live they were "meh".
ive been to shows where drums were programmed and thumping through, but the drums at the SoM gig were really lacking and felt weak AF.
@@jameskirkbydrums I live in one of those drummer deserts (Leicester, UK) so I'm forced by necessity to resort to drum machines. It sucks but you have to make the best of what you have. I could spend a small fortune and hire a drummer and a studio (I live and record in a one bedroom flat on the 11th/12th floor of a tower block; not the ideal location for recording live drums for any genre... Even Jazz) but do I really want to and can I even afford it? The answer to both questions is a solid NO.
@@Mark761966 was gonna say the same thing. Don't see them today either. Still the same.
Imagine these guys trying to do Peart’s tracks or Bruford’s and get all the feel that they had! LOL
What about a multi instrumentalist who's primary instrument are drums that programs ?
Here is GARY SCHUTT he makes all his own backing tracks interestingly enough he is very well rounded, as if he developed as a Bass player guitarist drummer key boardist and singer in concurrence . ruclips.net/video/uQgj_q_7VWo/видео.html
I'm one of those people who dared to try lol...
Feel can technically be quantized so you could theoretically get every single inflection to be perfect if you're programming drums. It would just take a microscopically accurate ear and tons of time on top of that. I'm not kidding when I say that I myself could do that since I have taken the time to study second-by-second the tempo changes of Neil Peart's playing specifically in songs like La Villa Strangiato and a few others so I could tell you exactly how many decimals of a BPM he's fluctuating from beat to beat or how much he's swinging. For example, I created 258 tempo adjustments in La Villa Strangiato and even then it doesn't account for the swing he puts within beats, which you could also analyze and quantize. Then there's the issue of Dynamics of course. And no two drums sound the same and of course you can't get as much detail out of as many areas of the drum with samples no matter how good they are.
But if you're speaking only about feel from a time-grid sense, it is possible to copy his feel... but it would take months for me to program it exactly like that and I would much rather play it in real life. It is possible just not very practical.
Less Neil Peart, more Buddy Miles.
I’ll stick with programming drums.
It has consistency which I want, it’s quicker when time is a factor and it is, it’s easier when you don’t have the skills and coordination of a good drummer and over all can be made to sound great if you know what you’re doing.
There are many popular albums out there that have used programmed drums that sound great. You just have to be talented enough to make it sound original and dynamic and YOU CAN!
In many situations, there are musicians who work on whole albums and would rather concentrate on getting it done in a timely manner.
Recording drums using a real drummer may be natural, dynamic and real sounding from the get go, but as a musician you’ll suddenly need to have 30+ years of sound engineering experience in recording drums, have saved up way more money than any musician can ever save, find a good enough drummer, put up with countless drama from multiple drummers until you find the right one.
All because a sound engineer in his 50’s on RUclips gets pissed every time you mention “programmable drums” and all you wanted was to have drums on your album.
Do what you like, make some mistakes, learn from them, don’t get discouraged, don’t listen to naysayers, just follow your instincts and use whatever is within your means.
@@Proghead88 Great answer, thanks for posting.
The Spector sound studio, is getting across it is possible to record good drums with inexpensive equipment.He gets a great sound, Programmed drums can be great as well. There is a learning curve either way .
Progheaad 88, is there any equipment you would recommend for programming?
As someone in a moderately small 12 by 12 ft bedroom . I can only fit an electric kit that I can fold up when not in use. I use a combination of an electric kit as a trigger and punching in the midi directly. The method really depends on the genre or type of feel required.
But I thinking solo beginners can really benefit from drum samples. It allows us to focus how subtle changes in the drum composition can alter the entire mix sonically in real time. Something that would be more time consuming to experiment with on real drums (at least by yourself).
Do with what you have and don't take it personally when a professional who has greater means disses your workflow. Just hear the opinion, choose whether to take it, and move on.
2020
Racist: baaaad!
Sexist: baaaad!
Ageist: nah that's fine.
Millenials: "prejudice is inexcusable"
Also Millenials: "ok boomer"
@@danielfellowes3077 yes! Pisses me off!
It gets distorted, but it's supposed to be for when older people trash young people for things they don't deserve being trashed for. For example: "You spend too much time on the computer" yet llder people watch TV from the moment they grt home from work till the moment they go to bed.
Or when older people complain about "today's music". OK Boomer represents something as old as mankind has existed: the divide between young and old. The same thing Glenn Fricker no doubt experienced with older people when he was a young kid.
If you argue it's a pointless endeavor. But it's nothing new to current young generations.
I think it really depends on the sound your going for and what your wanting to acomplish with the overall production. As much as I love to listen to bands like overkill or anything like that i do have to admit that its a specific sound that some bands might not wanna go for. Id say that its got alot to do with technology at the time and what was avalible but i remember reading somewhere that alot of the drum sounds on Def Leopards records were sampled and played though a fairlight specificly for the sound of that record. Personaly I like the flexibility of using drum samples over micing up a kit and i think thats what alot of modern producers love about it. I think at the end of the day its more of a taste thing and i think thats a pretty fair argument to make
Confusing time with talent. It is no longer useful for me to explain why music is broken as the kids like garbage and the story ends.
You know what is cringe? Calling people "Boomer".
Been called far worse!
People in the 60s are Boomers. Glen and I are Gen X, the forgotten generation.
People that call others boomers often dont know their head from their ass, boomers (baby boomers) are born between 1946 and 1964 due to the increased birth rate after the world war II, my mother was a boomer and maybe Glenns parents were, since Glenn just turned 50 he was born in 1970 and is obviously not a boomer, i was born in 1971.
@@ZedChuva mid 40's - mid 60's, yes I know, ;-) That is one reason why I said it was cringe, along with it just being cringe in leu of an actual point.
@@ricoswave2326 haha agree. Every time I see a Millennial call someone a Boomer, I just chuckle at their stupidity, cause it's rarely, ever an actual Boomer.
The 'anti modern recording' thing doesn't really have much merit outside of the culture it creates. Academics have put this to bed, and they've moved onto other theories. Rhythmic discrepancies don't impact how listeners experience groove to a huge degree, looking at studies,, and there's a huge risk when you talk about 'musicianship' etc, that you discredit people who enjoy electronic music, which is, frankly, probably more people than enjoy Metal nowadays. If you don't discredit electronic music, however, it gets into 'these sampled drums good, those sampled drums bad' territory, which is just a really flimsy argument. I get wanting drummers to not be replaced, and a great drummer can bring some great stuff to music, however, quantising them, and even triggering them doesn't remove that, unless you do it in an overly heavy-handed manner.
Well said. 👍
YES! You hit the nail on the head there. Of all the musicians and music lovers I’ve talked to, none are more obsessed with “rules” than metal musicians/listeners. The list of “do’s and don’ts” is so long and pedantic it stagnates the genre due to fears of being discredited and ousted if not followed.
The snares on-off retort doesn't really prove anything. How many metal bands do you know that alter the snare tension or turn them off mid song? Nothing that cant be done with a different sample on the piano roll if you want that sound and nuance. Not really arguing for or against samples here, but that feels like a weak counter argument.
Makes me wonder if he knows the feature set in a modern drum VST
LMAO imagine comparing a sound sampler (keyboard/synth, guitar pedals) to a performance sampler (recorder and computerized drums).
I had a comment on that video and I'll put the sentiment here too for the crowd that still insists on using the "what about the 'Composer-level programmers?'"
The level of time it takes to make realistic drums is insane compared to just busting it out on a set. It's the whole argument again that I'd hear with "instruments are old, synth can do it all" and then they have a 30sec clip they spent 20 hours on to some close to real
Hours of excessive tedious effort for the similar quality of output is a huge waste of time is my point. I don't see what's hard to see about that.
@Sergio True, I neglected to add that to this version of my former comment. But many are taking that and acting as if the few who developed the skill make the majority of cut and pasters skilled
To quote Sheldon Cooper: "I never said that you're not good at what you do. It's just that what you do isn't worth doing."
hey by the way! What about the "mix with samples" contest!? :( I need a pair of Kali
Ya mannnn?!
Lol
Ok the opening comment: there's no reasoning with 380k musicians because music (and to a point production) is incredibly subjective.
Matt at Theocracy had a great video on mixing a Project Aegis song. All real drums, and it was the absolute BIGGEST sound I've ever heard.
I love theocracy!
It doesn’t take talent to program drums. It just takes a shitload of patience.
Regarding the arguments about Glenn "discrediting" drummers, I am sure you could pique his interest by doing something creative with drum samples that a traditional drummer couldn't do (and no, blast beats at impossible speeds does not count). Justify it in musical terms.
Saying that programming drums takes no talent is an insult to legends like Prince, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Marley Marl, Teddy Riley, Timbaland, etc. so let’s be real: it takes talent to do anything exceptionally well, real drums, programming, etc.
Dafuq, Glenn. You’re late! Lol
*points to wristwatch*
Yep.
There are still many metal records being recorded not only with real drums, but with a more vintage approach, for example using tape, and they're also quite popular: to find them you just have to look for different sub-genres, like sludge, blackgaze, hardcore or post-metal. Jack Shirley is a producer from Oakland that has recorded Deafheaven and Oathbreaker, Kurt Ballou has done a wonderful job on records by Converge and many more artists, Car Bomb don't even track their drums to a click!
These are musicians and producers that deserve being mentioned, and that aren't by any mean making music with a nostalgic aesthetics or targeted at older people. Someone in the world of underground metal music has already become aware that overproduced music becomes boring quickly.
Programming drums can be a click and paste, simple process, where an entire song can be programmed in less time than it takes to just listen to the song. That's sad.
When I use EZ Drummer to put together the drum part for a song it usually takes weeks. I will sit down with one of the druumers I've either worked with, or jammed with, and I will go through the guitar and bass parts, what's written up to that point in time, then whatever vocal parts are worked out to that point, and finally we'll put together a rough song structure with all the instrument parts as they will be when final tracking is done, as I always insist that every instrument, for every track I will need, including double tracking the left and the right guitars, and any doubling the vocals, on the entire song is played beginning to end, the whole song. It's one way to keep the authenticity, the honesty, the integrity, and the, "human element," in the music. It takes at least ten times as long to do things this way, but it is definitely worth it.
The drummer and I will go through the song and map outwhat I would like to hear in each part, in each transition, what I am looking for in the feel of the fills and what a drummer, from the perspective of a drummer sitting behind a drum kit listening to this music, what they would be naturally inclined to play through all of these parts. We will map out a plan of attack, and we will go through the catalog of eight ezx expansion packs and 12 midi packs, in addition to the midi on those ezx expansions, and we will select up to five possible selections for each beat for each part. Once I have what I think I will need the drummer will leave and I will begin the part of breaking down all of these selections, as well as grabbing other pieces of music that I like and I will begin constructing each part of the song, off and breaking down every one of these parts into segments lasting maybe two beats long and going through an individually selecting every drum hit, every kick, snare, every high hat, ride, China, stack, splash, bell, every tom, every rim. I go through and select the velocity of every hit.
The only exception to this rule is if there are natural breaks in the song, like at the end of a chorus, and only one guitar is playing their part, while the other instruments are silent and may only come in with very short cymbal crash and grab, and staccato, punchy, very quick, very strong notes on those short cymbal crash with immediate grab on that cymbal. On a natural break in the song, like this, I may punch in a new guitar track at this point, but otherwise, the continuity of the instrument tracks, the band members, the musicians, to capture and communicate to the listener what the actual performance is/was like Ike, to me, is essential. It's painstaking, and my friends think I'm nuts for doing it this way, but it's the only way that makes sense to me. Usually when I am finished with each part, the song structure will look like 10000 very very narrow stripes in various colors along that song creator tool. I won't debate whether or not whatever someone else is doing requires talent or skill. I used to criticize creators of hip-hop and rap music as doing something which requires no talent nor skill, after seeing someone create a hit song after selecting three parts of music (two short sections of a drum beat, one sample of keyboard, horns, and a bass, "lifted" of a famous song) and lightly tapping on a single piano key three times. He literally wrote a hit song on his computer in less than 30 seconds.
To me that showed an extreme lack of talent or skill.
Now I see that he was very talented, in that he was able to create something that millions of people like, while putting in a very very small amount of effort and or time, and that the listeners did not require a great deal of effort to go into their music, as they thoroughly enjoyed it, when IBM, I mean a person, does a pathetically simple piece of very boring music, taking very little time and seeming to care very little about what the piece of music really was. But that's my opinion based on my taste, and they are entitled to have their tastes, too.
Goddamn that was a mouthful...but I read it and it makes sense. Composing music takes talent, skill, and experience. Whatever the tools. Glenn seems to have found a steady stream of people who can't play drums but know what they "want" to sound like. They want him to fix their performance in post, and he doesn't want to be a drummer, he wants to record a good drummer. His use case is certainly different than mine. I know a good drummer, but I would use programmed drums for songwriting at home.
I want to believe people are confusing "programming drums" with "composing drum parts". Two VERY different things. One of those takes talent, the other one doesn't. Greetings from Argentina.
I don't get the discussion.
Yeah, I love my BFD3 for playing and recording simple demos (and it doesn't sound half bad if you keep it simple and don't over process) but I can't deny that a well recorded drumset will outperform it in every way.
That’s the issue though, samples are being used instead of a real drum kit rather than as a tool to get ideas down or as a last resort if real drums can’t be recorded for some reason, it seems to be “engineers” who can’t be bothered to learn how to record properly.
It's a taste argument ultimately. A lot of bands want their drums to sound electronic, or they want to be able to have reliable drum tone on the road, or they want to be able to play blistering fast double kick patterns without the sound getting muddy, etc. For people that don't mind drum samples, some of their favorite albums use drum samples and it wouldn't make those albums better if they used organic drum recordings instead. Simultaneously there's plenty of bands that have arguably bad sounding samples, and plenty of bands that have terrible sounding organic drums. It's all relative.
“Lizzy Borden - Me Against The World” would definitely be your WWE entrance song
To those with I.Q’s 70 or lower: a musician doesn’t play an amplifier. It’s not an instrument. In fact, it’s a machine that translates the electrical signals from your guitar to a speaker. Therefore an amp sim is NOT the same as a drum sample. Now go back to your idiotic excuses of why drum samples are better than a drummer. Just leave non-instruments out of it.
Exactly right. An amp sim requires an actual performance from the musician. Programmed drums are just paint by numbers. Sure, there is a skill involved in arranging them, but real drummers and guitarists have to do that as well as mastering physical techniques to nail the performance.
Don't worry Glenn. These guys will grasp the idea of acoustic vs electronic.
-Hey drum programing stringtards, acoustic guitar and electric guitar share the same principle:
• You strum the strings with a certain dynamic/technique.
• Strings vibrate causing air pressure to move.
• (Acoustic) The air pressure gets trapped in a wooden box as the top lid moves with the string and this causes the air pressure to amplify.
•(Electric) The string movement is captured by an electromagnetic field, tramsforming those movements into an electrical wave/signal which is then amplified by electronic circuits, sent to a speaker, which moves the air.
*That's a string instrument (not mentioning transducer tech here)*
Now drums are a different beast.
Acoustic drums react to the very minimal amount of change in atmospheric pressure. They have membranes that vibrate as the string does. You hit it hard, you get a loud bang. You hit it very gently, it still males a sound. Now, when speaking about electronic drums, there's no wave signal being amplified by any other device. It's simply an on/off signal that triggers a programmed sound. Yes it uses MIDI language to try and set parameters for other dynamics. But it still replaces vibrating membranes and shells with a couple of on/off switches
In simpler words:
Shells/Membranes and Strings react to the applied force.
On/off switches just trigger sounds. No way you can capture real performance out of a programed drum.
Well, composing anything can take talent, so I'd have to disagree with you, Glenn. Not saying that any of those guys programming metal drum parts are new Wagners and Mozarts, but it ain't too different from writing riffs.
Besides, writing and playing are two separate categories (and for example, Yngwie Malmsteen sure can play, but he can't write for shit).
Summary: STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE.
It doesn't take much talent to just drag and drop midi patterns that someone else made into EZ Drummer and call it a day. He makes it sound like that's the ONLY thing anyone does, which is so far from being true it's asinine.
You need to learn the software, how midi works. You need to understand how drums work, either having learned to play real drums or otherwise understanding the relationship between kick, snare, cymbals and such and how drum patterns look in a midi sequence. Most people have no clue how to play (or program a digital version of) real drums.
You SHOULD learn how to sequence patterns from scratch with velocity, swing etc on each hit to create as natural (or not depending on what kind of sound you're going for) sounding drums as possible.
And after all that and once you have your drums programmed you still have to add production to them just as you do with real performed drums.
In some ways I find recording real drums easier, because it's more organic and I'm not just sitting there feeling my brain turn to mush as I sequence midi for 8 hours in one sitting.
It all takes knowledge, lots of practice persistence and dare I say... talent.
I will say, programming drum tracks note-for-note takes more patience than recording real drums. At least it does for me. I find it much easier to just go record on my kit. But then again, it's always set up to record.
True. Took me about 4 years to be able to program drums lol
Definitely takes patience. I just finished note-for-note programming a seven minute song. Kill me.
yep, pound out a bit to copy-paste so much easier than deadmausing it.
@@snap-off5383 i usually knock out a rough version. Then edit each section piece by piece
@@erickmazur807 OH of course, I'm a guitarist, not a drummer, quantize and edit are also my friends. A final polish is going through and humanizing the velocities.
Look, homie. I'm 37 years old with a wife and a full time jobs. I was in bands throughout my teens and twenties. Getting involved in a real metal band at 37 years old is not something I'm willing to do any more. Drum programming has given me the opportunity to be a part of something with other musicians in a way I never thought possible. I get to enjoy the creation of music from my home studio and still maintain my marriage and job. Call it what you want, but I call it freedom.
„We‘re not finding the Keith Moons and John Bonhams anymore.“
Nostalgia is really going strong here..... I really don’t wanna downplay these guys place within music history, but by todays standards, they would just be „middle of the pack“ drummers. Todays top metal drummers could easily play circles around guys like Keith Moon or John Bonham.
There is more to drumming than speed and technique. If you don't have anything to say, doesn't matter how fast you say it.
@@ndykman_pdx What you are talking about are timing differences. Different parts of the drums rush or drag slightly to create a more groovy effect. The new metal drummers can play with swing too, it's not something unique to the 70's.
If not modern metal drummers that are a lot more technical, then all of the modern jazz drummers most certainly play circles around everyone that Glenn likes from back in the day. Those drummers are so well trained they can identify the number of subdivisions within a beat and use that to perfectly time their swing with other instruments in their band. And a lot of those jazz guys use electronic kits and/or drum triggers because they want to take influence from pop/hip-hop and inject it into jazz.
Just like when people say "there's no good music anymore". Just gotta know how to look, and you've gotta be open to new things. There's more music coming out now than ever in history if you don't like any of it it's not the music's problem it's your problem. Haha
@@ndykman_pdx Correct, there is MUCH more to it than speed. If I listen to a drummer and am "confused" by the beat he plays because you can't pinpoint if they're playing 8th notes or two thirds of 8th triplets because their hits are so sloppy that they are more than half of the time falling somewhere between that line that is no longer "margin of error", then I don't have a good listening experience. That's why I dislike Led Zeppelin on many levels and favor other rockbands that came before, during, and after Led Zeppelin's time. Too many people glorify Bonham and claim that he could place 64th notes exactly where he wanted to. This borders on religious fanatics. He was a substance abuser through and through, and his playing showed it. Dirk Verbeuren for example, one unbelievably technical but also very tasteful drummer, constantly says that GROOVE is the most important thing for a drummer. And that is very much shown with his playing. What Bonham had wasn't groove. It was a love for what he did, but all the stuff he put in his system reduced him to a mediocre drummer at best. Even for his own time.
@@K0sm1cKid Certainly there is a lot of great new music around. However, what I don't see most modern jazz fans doing is calling the likes of Jones, Blakey, Williams, Roach, Joe Jones and more "middle of the pack" just because modern jazz drummers can build on all their experiences and ideas and well as develop their own. Hell, Vinnie Colaiuta has repeatedly say that John Bonham was one of his favorite drummers ever and a big influence on his playing. It easier to go further down a road when somebody has carved out that road before you.
I think its funny how people chime in with "In ___insert electronic style___ programmed drums are the norm blah blah"
Like of course they are, certain types of music drums are ALWAYS sequenced.
THIS IS A METAL CHANNEL! IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT OTHER GENRES DO!
It can be assumed Glenn is always bitching about drums in metal/rock productions. That is too much for some people though. Also people just WON'T understand that every square centimeter of a drum head sounds different and HOW you hit each tiny bit sounds different. 3 samples of a snare won't cut it.
Oh and cheers from another SOLIDLY GEN-X person who gets called a boomer because our generation is typified by being cranky bastards and they don't know the difference between that and just being a prick.
Hmm... at around 6:41 there seems to be a slight misconception about synthesizers.
Yeah, there are synths that use samples for sound generation. Mostly in order to simulate natural instruments.
The benefit of those is imo, that on one hand one person can play a whole orchestra or to bring instruments to the band that no one of the band members can play and on the other hand, those are pretty much necessary for many bands when they play live as they can't haul a grand piano and/or a whole orchestra to every gig. ;)
And then there are synths like the Moog Sub 37, the Yamaha DX series, the Dave Smith stuff and so on, which can emulate a natural instruments to a certain degree, but excel at sounds no natural instrument could ever deliver. Those are mostly used in electronic music, but i could see such sound also be used in a more metal or rock context.
Maybe you should give this kind of synth a try sometimes. :)
Jordan Rudess, the keybord player of Dream Theater is a prime example of this, as he does all of this for the band.
I understand the schtick, but being ranted at by someone who can barely play themselves is not that appealing as a professional musician, who plays multiple real instruments, including drums. There are people who can program drums very, very well, and it is a high level skill, IMO. Of course, real drums are better, but not everyone has the means to record real drums. I had to sell my drums because I became disabled. Now I finger drum and edit in the box. I still feel like I'm creating art, and I don't give a fuck what a stereotypical angry sound man has to say about it (BTW, I also was a pro sound engineer and did tours and concerts for about 10 years in that field...I've played and mixed literally many thousands of shows). Gotta unsubscribe, because I don't feel like being insulted by people who are RUclips personalities first and musicians 10th.
As somebody who is disabled as well (but still can play a kit for now), this is valid point. In the rush to criticize those that insist that drum programming is just as good as or better than the real thing, it does overlook those that are just doing something different with what they can. I will say this, I can not support anybody that claims that "with just some experience" that they can create programmed drum parts with the understanding of the nuances that you have as a musician. There is no shortcut.
Sounds like someone has been missing his points and views...
I miss hearing the hiss of an amplifier during quiet moments on a track.
I miss hearing the squeak of a string as the performer changes frets.
I miss hearing random sounds bleeding into a final mix, or a random background voice via the pickups as the track fades.
I miss hearing the first breath a vocalist takes.
I agree. but i also think a good producer leaves some of these in. maybe not every breath, but some appropriate ones. maybe not every string squeak but every once in a while. i think that's what a lot of new bedroom producers don't get. perfection isn't perfect. imperfection is. otherwise it's not art. I learned that from watching Bob Ross paint as a kid, and later from reading articles by Herbie Hancock explaining when Miles Davis taught him that same concept in music.
It's bad producers that think just because they can do a thing that they must. technology shouldn't be making the decisions for us. we need to choose how we want to use it, what's appropriate, and what's not. far too many technicians trying to make art these days, not enough artists.
So make the music that you want to hear.
“Be sure to let us know when that happens.”
The band I’ve been playing in did that with their previous drummer. He’d lay out the drums for a song on the real kit to get everything down and then record it with an electronic kit on Reaper with GGD (Each drum/cymbal individually mixed). Then he’d go through and adjust the velocities, manually move around some of the hits either on or off the beat instead of quantizing, just doing small things here and there to make the recorded drums sound as authentic as possible.
Both of us are capable of playing the recorded material on an acoustic kit but getting a clean recording is universally easier/cheaper with the above method. I’d rather record on my actual kit but I think this is a pretty fair compromise.
I've been programming drums since 1995 (started on a software called Sound Club for DOS) and no, it does not take any talent even without using MIDI packs. You learn how to USE the program (articulations, velocities, etc.) and that's it. Yes, I got better at it over time but I would definitely NOT call this "talent".
So a person who knows how to program midi drums has no skill that is different than a person who does not know how to program midi drums? There's a difference in skill which is what talent is, between a kid who can play Mary Had a Little Lamb on a piano and one who can't. Having learned something doesn't equate to having learned zero.
Snap-off Whatever you learn to do with a software, you can do it again the next day as if you did it all your life. It’s a bloody machine. Learning to play an actual instrument takes practice to redo what you did just the day before. That’s the difference.
@@DonnieDistortion What a stupid argument. If I learned a song on guitar, and I can play it the next day "as if I did it all my life", then I am a machine? You may have a point in your argument, but that is most certainly NOT it.
@@DonnieDistortion pointing out a difference in required talent is a completely separate statement than saying that it takes no talent. Even very small numbers do not equate to zero.
Brandon Cooke I meant the software is a machine. Not the user/player.
I had an instance of a friend of mine doubting I could play any of the parts I programmed. He left crying like a bitch in denial, if you can’t fucking play your programmed drums you shouldn’t program at all.
Nobody is programming a full song's drums without a massive amount of copy and paste. People acting like they are carefully editing the velocity of each hit and creating incredible grooves from scratch are full of shit.
I record in my home studio. I'm going to hire a drummer with sofa money and when the neighbors call the police after he stumbles out drunk and pisses in my front yard, I'm going to blame you.
a dollar says you couldn't pick out well programmed high quality drums in a mix. 2 dollars even. you can't even hear when your compressor is bypassed.
programming drums DOES take some time and a bit of patience for sure, But TALENT?? Not so much.
I totally agree Glenn. I tried drumming for 4 years, ( Im primarily a guitarist) and from experience drum programming enthusiasts have understand a few things.
1. Its hard to find a place to play drums. A lot of people aren't gifted with a house to play in (apartments never work), or can't afford to rent a practice room. Sure there are people who say electronic drums are a solution but they will never have the dynamics and tone of the real thing.
2. Physically it's exhausting, drummming takes coordination skills, and endurance. I have the knowledge in my brain to understand complex polyrhythms but when I try to apply and last, totally different story. Respect to the dedicated, and skilled players.
3. Live performance, it's a fundamental for immersion in the music community as a whole. If you ever plan on playing a show with the "perfect programmed" drums, its either play backing track for live (which is less honorable) or find a drummer to play the song live in which case leads back to respecting live drummers in the first place.
Sorry this was long Glenn, been playing music for 2 decades, and totally agree with you. Cheers!
1:16 Go check out the first two Invalids records. The band didn't have a drummer at the time and the Drums were programmed exactly how that comment describes and they honestly sound really good. The songwriter, Pete Davis, even has a series of videos on youtube going over his process for programming Drums for those records. ruclips.net/video/rICGEQePafs/видео.html
Drum samples? No.
Click track? Yes.
I send my stuff with a click to my drummer buddy and he records his drums and send me the tracks.
It's not optimum, but that's what I have to do.
Real player.
Real drums.
No time alignment.
Triggers>programming by hand. Programming through MIDI with triggers? Now that's next level.
As a drum programmer, I find that people who suck the dick of programmed drums to be the most annoying pricks in the industry. It takes far less skill than actually playing a kit, however, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have its purposes. For me, someone who is much more of a guitarist, it makes my life much easier considering I don't really have the time to learn drums due to college, plus lack of space. However, if anybody has the opportunity to actually play drums, please do that instead. It sounds much more authentic and will be much more expressive than anything you could really do digitally. I'm sure there are some outliers, however, for the majority of the people in the industry, programmed drums just aren't going to be as good as real drums.
"Programming drums doesn't take skill"
Every electronic music producer ever: ...
Musicians are overrated.....samples always turn up on time to gigs ...and the audience don't care....let people be...let the DJs make $10 million a year, they get people up and dancing, that is the main thing....if my band was better than the dj, we would draw bigger crowds and be making that easy 10 mil...not jealous at all
@@bradmodd7856 yeah, back up, time coding a drum loop takes knowledge.
Getting a good beat is a skill .
Drummers also make good programmers. How good the beat is depends on the musicianship of the programmer .
Actually there are plenty of good songs in dance music that could step up the quality of the groove
I miss the days when Neil Peart had a 360 degrees of laptops around him for all those tasty MIDI grooves.
gotta say man youre looking so healthy and happy these days, your such an inspiration dude, keep kickin ass 🤘
Wow. I think this is the first time Glenn's yelling was clipping. If the compressor decides to give up, we know Glenn must be ESPECIALLY angry.
If the song rocks, touches you and captures your imagination, who gives a fuck how the drums were composed.
As a drummer who takes pride in my practice. THANK YOU. I do use midi to write demos to build off of, but always track a live kit to release!
I agree with you Glen! I've been preaching for years that the whole point of using real amps, microphones and real drums is not only about capturing the individuals performance (which alone will always be something special) but also to make recordings that have IDENTITY! It's so rare to hear an album these days with immediately recognisable sounds. Angus Young, Eddie Van Halen, Keith Richards, they all play one chord and you know who it is.Phil Collins, Dave Lambardo or Neil Peart play one bar and you know who it is. Metallica's Black album, Soundgarden's Superunknown or Iron Madien's Powerslave have a "red line" sound that continues through the whole album giving it THAT identity. Having said that, these days I'm doing a lot of mixing for bands that, because of their budgets (and sometimes egos), end up recording most of the stuff on their own. Me, as the mix engineer, I turn up 1 fader - like the snare top mic - and it's clear: I'm not even going to ATTEMPT to EQ/Comp/whatever this track. There's nothing worth saving. So I'll go right for the samples because the alternative is simply not acceptable. And yes, it's a fucking shame...P.S. I literally turn down every second request to mix an album because of how badly they were recorded. I'm tired of putting my name on junk. Love your channel and love your passion for Metal!
The good thing about Amp sims is that if you live in a flat like i do, turning a marshall or any high gain amp to full whack is not something you do if you want to have a good relationship with your neighbours
It’s not just dudes programming drums... I had a keyboard player tell me that the sampled piano in his keyboard would probably sound better than the Yamaha studio grand that was sitting in my main room...
Sergio And anyone who thinks that a keyboard sample of a piano sounds better than a real piano has no taste... lol
Sergio Yes, piano samples do have their place... in a bedroom studio, not a real one... lol
Dude, all of the hate and roasts towards you aside, you have a lot of great things on your channel. The thing is that you’re brutally honest and down to earth. Most people on RUclips really aren’t like that so please, kee up everything you’re doing! I love your content and everything you do!
Holy Shit! According to Glen I'm the only one on this planet who programs drums by clicking hits on a drum map bar by bar for the whole song without looping or cutting and pasting, no snap to grid, timing completely by ear, adjusting velocities and attack envelopes, combining hits for different textures, adjusting tunings...I feel so alone and untalented
The thumbnail caption make me spit out precious coffee!! Thanks glennathan.
using boomer and cringe also isn't lack of originality, you think ever person needs to have their own signature insult for people? it's just a word that seemed to describe the situation adequately in his eyes. not sure where you get the idea that using that all the time is lack of originality, cuz you're one to talk, you use the same swear words so much for the same stuff in your videos.
Disclaimer: I am a hip hop producer primarily, take it for what it is . I have been creating music for 21+ years in multiple genres including metal and hip hop.I see a trend of arguments that span from loudness wars, digital vs real, and anything you can think about. I think as creators, the hardest pill to take is the one that threatens our comfort zone. This world we live in as creators is an ongoing learning experience for lif, period. I like to find the middle ground in every argument to not only breed a learning experience for my opposition, but for myself as well.
I agree with what Glenn is saying about live performances being superior to fabricated ones. The final product will sound more genuine and unique with an instrument that is touched by human hands. I wish as a hip hop producer, that I had the resources to have a fantastic drummer come into the studio and play a Roland electric kit to my compositions. ( Yes the drummer is still playing samples, but the midi performance is still authentically human.) I feel that most of the argument is comprised of people in the same position as I, that do not have the access to said resources. It makes you feel that all the effort you put into you compositions is trash, but it is not. With that said in my opinion, programming drums is not a "talent" it is a "skill set".
I painstakingly take hours just to program my drums to get the best result with what I have (Humanizing Them). With my experience, I know how drummers move and try my best to capture that in every composition (Learned skill). Is it better than having a real drummer? NO! Does it set me aside from my peers? YES! Another point that Glenn brings up is that, " He'll wait for that to happen." What I think he is trying to say is that, people with that skill set tend to cut corners and say that it's good enough. It's true, I find myself getting really frustrated and wanting to say it's good enough when taking that amount of time on one element. I want a finished product sooner than later. The difference being, is that I personally ignore that feeling and make sure I get the job done to the best of my ability. (Passion)
A finished product is only the sum of its parts. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Glenn is trying to instill, learning, passion, and growth within his content. Maybe for most, it is harsh and hard to except. For me it is the realest, most honest, inspiring, down to earth perspective that I will receive from the internet. Use your time trying to find small gems within his content that apply to your personal workflow and apply them. You will absolutely create results. Don't waste your time arguing about things that will not bring you closer to your personal goals. (Being better at your craft)
FUCK YOU GLENN, I LOVE YOUR SHIT!
Programming is just having a sense of rhythm, patience and low key obsessive behavior
I program my drums because i just write and record in my bedroom. I think when people say it takes "talent" to program drums they are mistaking "talent" for "patience". It takes "patience" to program drums because it's not hard, it's just tedious and takes a while. My 2 cents.
Guys, imagine someone saying 'programmed guitar solos can get all the nuance of a real performance'. Obviously ridiculous, right?
DRUMS ARE A REAL INSTRUMENT TOO
So I'm interested to hear what you think about genuinely good drummers playing with no samples or editing but plays almost perfectly. Do you think it takes away from the performance? Is that boring to you? The album I have in mind is slaughter of the soul
As someone who writes and records his own music, I wish I had the means to record an actual drum kit. Unfortunately I’m almost forced to use samples, but I’ve found that compensating by taking the time to program the drums realistically (more complicated drum parts, grace notes, making sure the velocities are not all the same, etc) makes the recording much more rewarding to listen to. I used to play drums in high school, so I spend a few hours making sure the drum parts are interesting but still physically playable. You are right, it does not showcase any playing talent at all this way. But it does showcase an attention to detail and creativity. I’d also like to record using real drums as soon as I can, and this method will probably help me write and record drums once I do. The copy-paste method is only good to use as a template to embellish in the demo stages. I’ve also found that automating the tempo tracks to simulate where a live drummer would naturally speed up/slow down is also an interesting way to compensate. But for now I’m just a 20 year old autistic dude in his bedroom at my parents house. Love your content. Thanks for reading my two cents, I’m sure it’s rrreeeaallllly helpful /s haha
I'm an electronic music producer. In my world programming drums can be as simple as throwing in some loops you found or spending months agonizing over 500+ midi tracks.
Programming drums - not dragging and dropping loops - takes talent and skill. Nothing you say can refute that fact. Get over it already. Your preference for real drums does not supersede fact.
Looking much healthier lately man you look great! Happy to see!
Using the drummers own drums to replace their drums if something is wrong is something I learned in recording school. Not sure why this isn't more common.
Most engineers today take samples of the actual DRUMS after they're set up to record. That way, they can replace hits with the real drum if need be in editing.
He touches on this subject halfway trough the video.... Watch the video in its entirity before commenting Stuff like this
"Programming drums requires compositional skills" cool, I agree, compose the song BUT THEN FUCKING PERFORM IT FOR THE RECORD, THE SAMPLES ARE MEANT TO BE PLACE HOLDERS TO BUILD UP THE SONG, NOT THE FINAL FUCKING PRODUCT
Programmed drum samples is like Auto tune. If used correctly it can sound good, but most people are idiots and use it wrong.
✖️Programming drums takes talent. ✔️Programming drums takes patience.
I’m a real drummer and I program drums btw. Don’t have the resources to record live drums.
I don't know Glen. It takes some talent to play bass right? At least a little (1%), but bassist can't program drums which requires no talent. So this dilemma will eventually destroy the universe.
Glen: I’m doing another video on drum programming.
Warren and Eric: *both reach for noise canceling headphones*