My main question and concern - is this dilemma. For the most part ALL of Christendom was in agreement for like 1850 years - that the supernatural gifts like tongues and supernatural healings and prophecy (like we read about in the NT), were dead and had ceased and were not happening like they were during the Apostolic era. But if in fact - the gifts were not “ceased”, how then did Satan “contain” and in a sense hold back the Holy Spirits movement of exercising these gifts in virtually all believers for like 18 centuries until the very recent Pentecostal movement of the past century and a half or so? To me to affirm continuationism, is to admit that Satan had a stronghold over the Holy Spirits ability to exercise these gifts in the lives of believers in the entire world for like 1800+ years. Sorry, I just can’t give Satan that much power over the Holy Spirit - and - I have also seen Way, Way, Way too many Charlatans supposedly “exercising” these supernatural gifts to make me believe that the gifts still exist. The TV Faith Healers - come on, let’s be honest - those guys make pro wrestling look real. All this said - I won’t put God in a box - I believe God can and still does amazing miracles and healings and He can supernaturally give someone the ability to speak an unknown language - but He does so as He sees fit to do so for His glory and purpose, but no one living today has the Apostolic power that we read about in scripture, I just have never seen real evidence of it - hear me out - I have seen God heal and do amazing miracles - but it was through the persistent prayers of the righteous, and the laying on of hands by elders and the anointing of oil, but I have not seen it done by a man with a so called “gift of healing” proclaim it to be with authority (like the Apostles) - and then make it happen instantaneously like we read about in scripture. Joni Earrickson Tada is still waiting for healing - does she lack faith? Are there no Pentecostal pastors with “a real gift” that can heal her (or anyone like her). Love you pastor Mark, and love that you are not afraid to tackle subjects like this one, even if some of us might disagree.
@Matthew Andrychuk, I do have a formal biblical college education from Biola so I am completely familiar with the early church fathers and their beliefs and writings, but many of them wrote prior to the complete assembly and canonization of what we know as “the 66 books of the Bible” today, so I believe that many of the gifts - while waning - still likely existed to some extent to authenticate the Gospel message during their time. What this really all boils down to is what Paul said would happen in 1 Corinthians 13. Paul said “when the perfect comes”, then tongues will cease, prophesy will cease, etc. Let the text be the text - Paul himself said those gifts would eventually Cease. “The perfect” in that verse simply can’t be Jesus - as he had already came, so what then is “the perfect” Paul is talking about? For those of us who believe in the inerrancy of scripture, we would affirm that Gods Word (the 66 book Cannon of scripture) is “the perfect” that this verse is referring to. We now have in our possession the perfect and inerrant and all SUFFICIENT Word of God, that is powerful and sharper than any two edged sword - so since the Bible we have is all sufficiently giving us everything we need to know about God and faith and spirituality, we then don’t need signs and wonders like we used to need (pre cannon), that in the past God did use to help us “prove” or “authenticate” the message we were sharing. But let me be clear here - Does God still heal? Yes. Does God still do wonders? Yes. In fact I do know people who have seen some signs and wonders in the mission field - and it was with a people group who did not have the Bible translated into their language - very telling !! But does anyone alive have the type of “gift” of healing like the apostles had? Absolutely not, those gifts and powers that the apostles had - have simply ceased to exist since the establishment of the Bible and the assembly of our 66 book Cannon. Let us not forget what Jesus said in Matthew 16 “a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign”.
@@TheBlockPartyRV Read through the less mainstream church history. There were still spiritual gifts in operation throughout the centuries. Remnant Radio on RUclips also has some shows giving summaries of where you can find this.
Jesus is allegory, we are sons of God unless your looking outside Phil 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
As always, brother Mark explains with excellent discernment and clarity. Blessed by the humility!
Amen 🙏
Well said.
I love you my brother in Christ 😇❤
Very good summary!
4:09 What does he mean by angels?
My main question and concern - is this dilemma. For the most part ALL of Christendom was in agreement for like 1850 years - that the supernatural gifts like tongues and supernatural healings and prophecy (like we read about in the NT), were dead and had ceased and were not happening like they were during the Apostolic era. But if in fact - the gifts were not “ceased”, how then did Satan “contain” and in a sense hold back the Holy Spirits movement of exercising these gifts in virtually all believers for like 18 centuries until the very recent Pentecostal movement of the past century and a half or so? To me to affirm continuationism, is to admit that Satan had a stronghold over the Holy Spirits ability to exercise these gifts in the lives of believers in the entire world for like 1800+ years. Sorry, I just can’t give Satan that much power over the Holy Spirit - and - I have also seen Way, Way, Way too many Charlatans supposedly “exercising” these supernatural gifts to make me believe that the gifts still exist. The TV Faith Healers - come on, let’s be honest - those guys make pro wrestling look real. All this said - I won’t put God in a box - I believe God can and still does amazing miracles and healings and He can supernaturally give someone the ability to speak an unknown language - but He does so as He sees fit to do so for His glory and purpose, but no one living today has the Apostolic power that we read about in scripture, I just have never seen real evidence of it - hear me out - I have seen God heal and do amazing miracles - but it was through the persistent prayers of the righteous, and the laying on of hands by elders and the anointing of oil, but I have not seen it done by a man with a so called “gift of healing” proclaim it to be with authority (like the Apostles) - and then make it happen instantaneously like we read about in scripture. Joni Earrickson Tada is still waiting for healing - does she lack faith? Are there no Pentecostal pastors with “a real gift” that can heal her (or anyone like her). Love you pastor Mark, and love that you are not afraid to tackle subjects like this one, even if some of us might disagree.
Check out Brian Blount
@Matthew Andrychuk, I do have a formal biblical college education from Biola so I am completely familiar with the early church fathers and their beliefs and writings, but many of them wrote prior to the complete assembly and canonization of what we know as “the 66 books of the Bible” today, so I believe that many of the gifts - while waning - still likely existed to some extent to authenticate the Gospel message during their time. What this really all boils down to is what Paul said would happen in 1 Corinthians 13. Paul said “when the perfect comes”, then tongues will cease, prophesy will cease, etc. Let the text be the text - Paul himself said those gifts would eventually Cease. “The perfect” in that verse simply can’t be Jesus - as he had already came, so what then is “the perfect” Paul is talking about? For those of us who believe in the inerrancy of scripture, we would affirm that Gods Word (the 66 book Cannon of scripture) is “the perfect” that this verse is referring to. We now have in our possession the perfect and inerrant and all SUFFICIENT Word of God, that is powerful and sharper than any two edged sword - so since the Bible we have is all sufficiently giving us everything we need to know about God and faith and spirituality, we then don’t need signs and wonders like we used to need (pre cannon), that in the past God did use to help us “prove” or “authenticate” the message we were sharing. But let me be clear here - Does God still heal? Yes. Does God still do wonders? Yes. In fact I do know people who have seen some signs and wonders in the mission field - and it was with a people group who did not have the Bible translated into their language - very telling !! But does anyone alive have the type of “gift” of healing like the apostles had? Absolutely not, those gifts and powers that the apostles had - have simply ceased to exist since the establishment of the Bible and the assembly of our 66 book Cannon. Let us not forget what Jesus said in Matthew 16 “a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign”.
@@TheBlockPartyRV Read through the less mainstream church history. There were still spiritual gifts in operation throughout the centuries. Remnant Radio on RUclips also has some shows giving summaries of where you can find this.
Jesus is allegory, we are sons of God unless your looking outside Phil 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: