To anybody looking for a quick primer/reference sheet for car setups, check out these links: ruclips.net/video/EDmHpxgMxFU/видео.html and www.racedepartment.com/threads/automobilista-how-to-set-your-car-up.132909/
Btw. there is a bug in AMS2 right now (will be fixed soon), that hard tyres are the faster ones and gain 5 seconds right now, so hitting sub 1:37 seems now basically not that unique anymore, right?^^
@@DustySticks The message of the video is not wrong, though. (Except, that setups gain 4 seconds :,D) But the actual obvious bug, that has been found and not mentioned here, makes the way to the message a bit sketchy ^^' 3-5 seconds by setup is pretty unrealistically, to be archieved this way :D
Ignoring the click bait title and the ridiculous notion that avoiding setups in sims is cheating my personal growth, you fail to acknowledge that lap times can be up to 7 or more seconds a lap faster just by using hard slicks over soft slicks. Setups help, learning a track helps, praticing helps but you're lying if you think the exploititive tires aren't what is really helping you. If I can go from a 1:43.8 to a 1:38.1 simply by changing the tires and nothing else, it makes your argument that all those little changes you did that helped you so much seem a little less accurate.
For anyone struggling to learn how to set up a car, do a google search for “setup flowchart” or “setup cheat sheet”. It will provide you with setup modifications you can make to apply specific fixes for driving characteristics (what suspension adjustments to make to deal with mid-corner oversteer, for example). You really don’t need to have a deep understanding of how it all works in order to make some really beneficial changes with a few adjustments. Adjusting anti-roll bars, brake bias, and maybe ride height and/or downforce / wing settings is enough to significantly improve how your car handles, and is really pretty easy to understand.
Setup flowcharts are great way to learn setups in a really simply and quick way. However the most important thing before making any setup changes is to drive enough laps so you have consistent braking points, know your line around the track and can lap at least inside one second every lap, preferrably inside half a second. Being consistent is important so you figure out the right problems you need to solve. If you are not consistent it is really easy to misidentify your problems. Too much front brake bias becomes a diff issue, downforce balance issue becomes a springs issue and loose car on exit is actually an understeery car creating oversteer situation when you release the steering coming of corner, causing the fronts to snap and you gain front grip suddenly. So do enough laps before changing the setup. Unless it is very clear the defaults are bad it is usually better to just drive the car. If the car is really tricky it is rare that there is a magical setup that makes it handle really well. Sometimes the car needs a setup change instantly but 90% of the cases the way it comes out of the box is usable. Other thing is to do small changes and do only one change at a time. This just makes it easier to see if you fixed the problem and feel how the car changed. If you make more than one change you don't really know which change did what. From easy to difficult I'd say start with getting your brake bias right, then gears so you max out at the end of longest straight. After that you can learn tire pressures. Then the diff. Then springs. Then antirollbars. The downforce. Then dampers. Always use a setup sheet that is divided into different parts of the corner. Oversteer on corner entry needs slightly different solution than oversteer on exit. Avoid any setup sheets that have just oversteer or understeer. Good setup sheet also tells at which speed different things work better. Downforce for example affects high speed corners more than low speed.
I don't know why you are discussing this nearly 10 second improvement and that setup is far more important than driving. as I'm sure you know there is a bug with the soft tyre, which means you gain something like 5 seconds by using the hard tyre. Another 2 seconds is just boost pressure. After that you have about 1 second improvement left and I don't think even that time is likely to come more from setup than from the driving itself. I loaded up default - put boost to 100% and used the hard tyres to do a 37.4 in my first lap and 36.6. in the 2nd lap. Already then beating your lap. Didn't take long to get to WR and then after more effort I got 1:34.77. For the record I also think a game in development with clear bugs and faults are a really bad example. Realistically you can, as longs as there aren't major flaws with the setup, get within 5 tenths on pretty much default - then you indeed need to adjust setup to get the most out of your driving but I think you're just way off in what you're communicating in this video.
Thank you for doing these videos. I have started to learning setups since a couple of days, I have to say it's they key to becoming faster. Absolutely love these videos. Keep those setups videos coming. They push me to learn more, be faster, get better and stay motivated.
I don't bother with setups, at all. There I've said it. Why not? There are two reasons. The first is that in an average month I might have just one or two hours when I can get behind the wheel, and when I just have that limited amount of time then I'm going to do what I enjoy doing and that's driving - obsessing over technical details is what I spend 12-14 hours a day doing so I don't want to do that in my off time. The second reason is that I'm simply not consistent enough to know if a setup has really made a difference - I guess this is kind of related to the first reason in that I don't have the time to practice to "git gud". In my chosen career I've long since accepted that having a time consuming hobby is not possible, and I find that sim racing offers me the jump in jump out kind of hobby where I don't need to go that deep to enjoy myself.
Slap Head : well said! As I had replied to another comment above, looking back over the past 20 years of sim racing, I regret all the time I spent on the minutiae of car setup in lieu of actual driving and improving my craft. The latest sims all have solid stock setups ... good enough for the good guys to go way faster than I can with all my knowledge of physics and car dynamics. Enjoy your racing!
Absolutely agree. Aliens drive faster than us mere mortals because they are just better. No amount of setups is going to make me much faster give or take a few tenths here and there. Just learn the tracks and have fun.
@@gubin8er898 Aliens are not better. They just invested more time into it. You could say "oh if I had the time". No, it's not a matter of "if I had the time", most of them took the risk of focusing only on it, which is fair enough. If you only do one thing, you might as well be good at it. Personally, besides being a musician, i'm a huge gamer. I don't invest more time than I need to, but I do invest a lot of it in getting good. That includes messing a bit with the setups, but not much because, as you say "just learn the tracks and have fun" that in of itself can and will give you thousands of hours of playtime. The setups are good if you're playing competitively on a high level, and if you have the time to invest it. However, stock setups are there for you to use them anyway, and they are good enough
i feel you - im kind of in the same situation. Simracing is as casual as it gets imo. Although.. once you adjust some toe in on the back and see how you can push your car more through the corners is really where the fun only begins for example...
I'm never too keen to subscribe to a channel. And while I sometimes watch a video of yours, I never really got a signal to do so. Until this moment. You give an incredibly important vision that I share with you. It's about the journey to your goal, the process of becoming, rather than arriving. Important life lesson. Thanks for sharing brother.
Btw the real secret to aliens speed is the trailbraking and getting back on the throttle soon phase. That's why you'll see them gaining gobs of time in the slow stuff while u can keep up with them in the fast stuff for the most part. And AFAIK it's not something easy to replicate even if u saw them doing it. It's a feel and coordination thing.
slatan : absolutely! Ever since my Grand Prix Legends days, Aliens trail-brake millimeter perfect, and accelerate far earlier than anyone else.... and they can do this on stock setups! In my opinion, this video illustrates the effects of overshooting braking points in the quest for quicker lap times, ending up in destabilizing the car on exit. Living on the edge usually ends in disaster, as my racing will amply illustrate 😊.
@@edteach3r the dude was losing control over the car on exists multiple times because of it. He could get maybe 2 or 3 seconds just by being smoother. Being smoother and coordinate trailbraking with the throttle management can be more beneficial than tinkering with setups
oh the setups... I'm of two minds on the setup thing - for one I think if ur just beginning (1st year of simracing) ud be actually better off practicing ur lines and getting to know intimately ALL the tracks u can (not only the fast lines but also where can I and where can't I overtake). The other side of the coin is u will inevitably hit a wall of ur own talent (or lack thereoff) and then I'd suggest get on and learn how to setup the car to ur liking. I feel like learning the setup right from the beginning puts the emphasis in the wrong place. It's like a kid instead of learning to actually ride a bike would learn how to repair it. First get to know the tracks and car u would be running. Without deep knowledge of how the car behaves and the REPEATABILITY of ur own inputs you won't be able to make the right setup decisions (understeer in a car can be a setup problem but it also can be driver induced). U have to be sure that ur hitting ur marks just right every time before u jump to conclusions about the setup. I see more and more that setups r treated like a magic pill - it's not. Story time: Years ago racing in iRacing we had open setup series and inevitably the aliens always ended up at the top. There was a lot of crying and whining from part of the community that we should race with fixed setups cause setups is cheating and they don't have the time to spend on setting up blah blah blah. So they made a fixed setup series and guess who was at the top again? Yes, the same aliens that dominated the open set series. Now I'm not saying setups r not important but it's easy to fall into a trap where u constantly blame the cars setup for ur mediocre pace, where in reality u should adapt and keep improving ur lines/racecraft etc. U'll constantly be going back to garage to make pointless adjustments instead of actually practicing and improving ur driving. As long as the car doesn't wanna kill u every corner u should be able to adapt to it and adjust ur driving style to fit the cars characteristics better. Remember whatever u'll do to a mid-engined cars setup it will never drive like a front-engined car.
I think you're absolutely right and I personnally should focus on my consistency, racing line, braking points etc first. But our youtuber also has a point that as a simracer you should try and understand everything that impacts your laptime. Let me just paraphrase the Last Samurai: "one should aim for perfection in everything the endeavour". It is a high standard to live by for sure, but for me simracing would not make sense if I didn't try to abide by it.
Enjoying the videos Ermin! Personally, I've always enjoyed tinkering with car setups & I genuinely thing a bit of knowledge about dampers, spring rates, diffs etc. will make you a better driver!
Yes, knowing what's wrong with the car can also help. Sometimes you think "oh I have understeer" but your line was off, and t hen you do another lap, and you realize you didn't actually need it lmao
Love the video! Great work and awesome advice. I think "minor" car setups are VERY important though. First, learn the car and track until you can do 3-5 consistent laps of your best lap time. During that learning period, you should be able to understand what the car needs to improve. Only things I really touch are ARB, Brake Bias, Rear/Front wings, Splitter, Brake Pressure, Camber, Toe in/out and that's it. All of the above usually doesn't take long to setup. All of the above are very easy to tell it has made a difference for me. And those are necessary to make the car loose or tight to help achieve better cornering, stability and straight line speeds. Tires, I unusually set them as low as possible without affecting too much straight line speed, or just leave em stock. Overall, minor car setup, keeping the car on the black stuff and not locking up are all I need to keep up in mid pack battles. Can't fuss too much over car technical setups. Aliens achieve lap records and chips with crap sim racing hardware. And some are still really fast on stock setups
Great point, I think also a bit of a cause for that problem is lack of decent base-line setup for those that don't know anything, that is why they are buying setups, you can't blame them but they need to understand that doing that they still loose a lot because what will make you fast and good driver is understanding of what you are driving with and making it do all the things you want and how how you want them, there are some fast setups you can buy and apply and it will feel better than base, of course it will, there are rarely good track specific baseline setups already in-game, but if you look for ultimate speed you need to make your car your very own car and apply self made setup with all your needs, I am huge fan of ACC I think that base setups there that are made track specific by devs and are actually really really competitive and super fast but that doesn't change the fact that for ultimate speed you need to personalize it, for me it was great starting point with learning setups and that is why now I hugely enjoy that aspect of sim-racing because with good base line there are fewer things that needs to be changed and I could appreciate them more and the change they bring rather than just trying to make the car drive properly at a basic level which I think is that frustrating thing that stops ppl from even trying anything themselves, I think it's what simracing needs, a bit better baseline for those you don't have time or don't feel need for setup but in the same time we need to make people aware with videos like this that the best setup is your own setup because everyone drives differently, good stuff, great video!
I see it this way: I do not care about setups in the slightest. Simracing is a hobby for me. The more amount of time I spend having fun behind the wheel the better. I cannot justify to myself spending real time trying to save -and please don't take this the wrong way- virtual time in my laps. Plus, it is just another variable to induce artificial differences between racers. I believe that is why they have their place towards the higher levels of competition (alien territory). For 95 % of us..., I think we are much better off just driving or battling it out. If I could I would create a race/league whatever and would ban setups. I believe it would have its public. Not trying to impose it onto everything. There's internet for everyone and we can all get along. But that's my take and will continue to be so.
So this video is wrong on so many aspects. Setup, unless you get it completely wrong, are only for drivers preference. One can be quick with one setup, but slow with another, whilst someone can have the exact opposite. Then why did you gain so much time you ask? Simple. AMS2 is in early access. This car was released with a massive bug, which also appears in other prototypes. You can use the same setup, but only switch to hard tires, and this car handles completely different. Suddenly the front end works, and its suddenly far more stable under braking. Finding one exploit doesn't make you an alien. It's definitely not setup related. This is not "their trick" and this title is 100% clickbait.
I’ve started sim racing recently and I just don’t have a clue when it comes to car setups. I’ve been trying to learn what each tweak to the car does and how it handles buts it’s harder than I originally thought. Great work keep it up 👍
I feel your pain but there are some great books out there that can help. Also I find driving the junior category cars first is best. They have less set up options and can help you understand basic setup principles easier. Good luck and keep at it
Fraser Simmonds : Don’t get caught up too much in the hype over setups. Quick drivers are fast irrespective of setup. Looking back at twenty years of sim racing, I regret all the hours pondering over ramp angles, toe-in/out, camber and anti-roll bars, etc, etc. In my opinion, your time is better spent on developing your race craft, understanding what the car is doing and how to get faster by going slower (as Jackie Stewart used to illustrate). RF2, AMS2 and ACC have excellent force feedback that make the learning process so much easier than in the days prior to FFB. Enjoy the journey!
Well said, especially as it relates more broadly to growth in life. As for the car setup, it was a lot more responsive and worked off 2 seconds for me. The step-by-step why’s and how’s on the setup adjustments were very helpful. Keep going.
I used to have a few world records in grand Turismo 2 and it was all because of a weird setup I discovered that gave some cars a strong ground effects like handling. Most corners above 3rd gear could just be taken at full speed, top gear.
As a new subscriber, allow me to say, Great Video Ermin! After watching your video yesterday on Chassis/Suspension setup, and seeing you make a number of very minor adjustments, I have to say I'm not sure I'd be able to notice any difference in my Simucube 2 and Ricmotech pedals with OR without those changes. Of course, I can try to make small changes to see if I can detect any difference (one change at a time, of course) to problems I think I can improve. But watching these 2 vids makes me hope you can and will do a series on each facet of chassis/suspension setup in the future, and how they interact. As a retired Mech. Engr, this is just one of those things (like Turbomachinery class in 1973) that you have to take your best scientific/physics pass at, and use that as a starting point and then start refining based on experimentation, feel, and experience! Thanks for your GREAT vids to help other sim racers!! :)
is this the School of Life channel? :) good stuff! I will try to come after you guys later today! although i think I already know the result. I hope AMS2 can become a THE platform for online battling, it sure has potential!
no, i haven't had yet a proper multiplayer session, other than a first chaotic one. I'm hoping to have some kind of fixed public servers with different racing categories soon enough, like the ones in AC, but hopefully cleaner! (that's asking too much already)
4:42 basically getting satisfied just from any good sounding suggestions came from Andy Sneap forums and/or many top level producers or even stuck with others' presets lmao.
While setup is very important, I’ve known people who will blame setups constantly and keep tweaking little bits to barely any improvement without working on their own abilities. Great video! Not denying anything you’re saying at all.
Were you driving while commentating this lap ? If so i couldn't tell, this proves the quality of your content.I'm glad i could help on that time (even if i didn't do a lot, i use to go with lightly modified stocks setups, i usually am quite shy on setup changes, i tend to mess up the thing more than it was hehe).
Ermin, there are plenty of "Setup how to" guides already, BUT I haven't come across a definitive lesson driven guide yet. Most seem to get lost in the weeds of complications with out offering a sound grounding. I think a good approach may be to take a couple of different cars, a GT and an open wheeler of some kind perhaps, and take us through setting them up step-by-step on separate tracks explaining what you are doing, why you are doping it and the effect it is having. Your last video was really good but covered too much at once (maybe?) I know it was meant as more of an overview. I'm sure if you get a really good setup-how-to together along with your excellent explanations you would gain a lot of followers.
Craig Cottam : I agree. I am a HUGE fan of Aris Drives of ACC fame. He gets right into this. For example, check out ruclips.net/video/P9QuVZT4sLo/видео.html.
The problem with AMS 2 is, there is just way too much on the setup screen. There are so many options, and I don't know what is worthless to mess with on this sim. It's much more simple in ACC for example
I just started seriously focusing on consistency instead of just having pure fun sim racing. My laps vary by about 1.5 seconds (same course, same car), should that be tighter before I even attempt to start getting into car setups?
We just all want to be the best, with as little work as possible. So I understand if someone doesn't like setups. I still take them as a complication of the game, but I am a beginner and I have not yet found the limits of the default setups. But I'm slowly beginning to realize that without setups, the game would be boring after a few months.
The fact i have no interest in making setups in all my 20 years of simracing is not a cop out at all. Even if i wanted to learn and make my own i simply dont have the time, the time i do have to simrace i prefer to just drive. 4:28 is a bit of a cheap shot to be totally honest Ermin, really comes across as condescending and overly critical of those of us who take simracing less casual than the elitists. Still really enjoy your content by the way.
It's not my goal to be disparaging - I just love to see people achieve their potential, whether it be in music production, fitness, sim racing or whatever. There are 3 main things at play here: 1) Tweaking setups is not as hard as most people think. 2) Tweaking setups will allow you to enjoy more cars, and increase the fulfillment you get from sim racing overall. I couldn't drive the Sigma at all prior to doing my adjustments - you can see that in the video two nights ago! 3) The increase in performance is hard to go past. mehdis is a better driver than I am, but had I gone into the hotlap with my setup and he went in with his original one, it's likely I'd have been ~2 seconds faster on account of setup alone. I'd strongly suggest even just bookmarking a cheat sheet. It'll not only help you enjoy more cars, but just have a better overall time with sim racing!
Haha that didn't see that coming at the end... Video came at the perfect moment as well... I'm studying math and physics, both really do interest me, but it's very time consuming if you trying to understand even the most trivial problem to a level where you really can say "I understand what happens there". I was just in a moment were was really pissed at something not working out and kind of gave up and startet scrolling youtube and found your video. Building car setups are kind of the same to me... I'd really like to understand them but somehow I am not able to put the time into that. Not because I don't have the time, but because I don't have the pation for it... It took me couple of semesters to really get that pation for my university stuff, but I can't really put into simracing. Since I'm trying every day for like half an hour I'm decently good at certain car track combinations... Like you I drove hours of Nordschleife (track is like 50 km from my home... so of course) in GT3 so I'm pretty solid around there, same with Spa in GT3 (I mean I am like a second or one and half slower then those aliens... But in normal ACC races I finish in top 3, top 5 normally... Winning every fifth race or so. I'm totally ok with my pace there, since I normally have a group to fight with every race, and everyone at least knows what hes doing. If I was able to do 2:17 effortlessly around Spa the chance of me just charging off in front is very high) But trying a new track (for example Paul Richard in ACC) takes me like week to even get 5 clean laps in... Like I mean it... I tried going for 99 track rating for like 3 month but tracks like Paul Richard took me so many trys... I try to go to fast to quickly and get pissed off doing so, so I'm done after like 20 minutes. So how am I even supposed to build a setup then? In my opinion you need to be able to get a somewhat clean lap in no matter what setup you use before you start building your own setup... Like give me any car with any setup around Nordschleife and I say I am able to get like in 10 seconds of what world records with that car and setup is. Same with Spa and say 2 seconds. But learning new - some times boring looking - tracks is for some reason extremly frustrating to me... I hope I somehow can change that mindset, since I know how fun it is once you "master" a new track. Same with my studying... It always sets adrenaline in me once I feel like I understand big theorems of mathematics or being able to understand the mathematics behind some physicst theoremes (those mathematics isn't explained by the physics professor... Physic professors are like "yeah stuff makes sense if you think about it... And (by coincidence) it fits with the rules of mathematic, but lets not talk about that". However I don't have the willpower to really get into a topic right now, always frustrated when I don't find the answer on google...
I suppose it depends what you want to get out of a sim, if you want to be one of the top guys then yes you need to learn how to set up a car, for me personally i just dont find that kind of stuff fun, i could see myself get obsessed and frustrated trying to get the right setup and that just doesnt sound like fun to me personally.
people who arent even remotely interested in seting up their car by themselves, should not call themselves actual sim racers. #fact what are you going to hire an actual mechanic to handle some mousetweaks for you?? Without you knowing what changed and why? Tuning was the pinnacle of GT and such sims, thats why i fell in love with sim racing and cars.. and sim drift later on. Ive learned to setup my own car day by day, daily challenge by daily challenge. Trial and error, saving, resaving and also accidentally overwriting some setups and loose them in the process... Ive maybe spent like 2hrs per day just tuning every car i aquired just to see it drift somewhat competitively - if drifting , by comparing points and or replays. Best time of my life, and ive also learned a lot about cars and suspension in general. Its a great topic for everyone interested but a tedious amount of work put in for someone who just wants to casually game cars. :D It all got to the point where i thought i needed an irl. project car but then decided its more realistic and expensive/flashy to just stick with simracing XD
I have to admit, it's quite frustrating to have someone turn up at the last minute and totally demolish you during the race with an acquired setup. Especially after spending a lot of time tinkering with a customised setup yourself. It's like the student who never studies and still aces the test. But then again setup and driving ability go hand in hand, and I definitely lack in the latter.
@@Barry_Mmm well, it's obvious - focusing on one thing gets all the focus on that one thing, ergo u learn that thing way faster and more in depth. Other reason would be as with everything - if u don't know the basics well, touching the advance stuff might push u to wrong conclusions. Example: if u just started to learn coding and u set out to program an operating system u r gonna fail miserably and this for sure will impede ur learning process or put u off entirely.
Ian B I've yet to come across a setup that would improve my time by more than 0.3s, had a couple aliens setups too. Thing is I'm at it for quite a while so have the basics nailed pretty much.
SETUPS ARE THAT HARD TO MAKE🤦♂️ even if you are a beginner. For example: Let's say you're driving a MX5 Cup Car at Laguna Sega (I'm using my experience form Iracing but my sure all sims are the same). Just by softening the front anti roll bar you will have a safer car. Btw idk if this is faster if you are already fast, but for me at least I'm faster with the setup change because I can push the car more.
I don't here people talk about joycalib files, wheelrotation/force feedback setting. Also simracing is pay to win....you cannot be faster or more consistent on v3fanatec pedal set than a Heusinkveld Ultimates pedal set....
Spoken like a true.... Personal trainer here's a life's challenge, set a WR on an established track/car combo there is a lot more to it than set up, you lose time in every turn, its s good lap but it'll get smashed to pieces the true way to set a WR, perfectionism, concentration this title is misleading but it was a big clue that the sigma is the thumbnail and the car and track have been avaliable for little to no time on a game that is in beta and is played by a fraction of the community. I'd say sounds like you have delusions of grandeur.
Seriously, setups are much the same as music production. If you don't understand gain staging or how different types of compressors work then copying someone else's plugin settings are just as bad.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
To anybody looking for a quick primer/reference sheet for car setups, check out these links:
ruclips.net/video/EDmHpxgMxFU/видео.html
and
www.racedepartment.com/threads/automobilista-how-to-set-your-car-up.132909/
Btw. there is a bug in AMS2 right now (will be fixed soon), that hard tyres are the faster ones and gain 5 seconds right now, so hitting sub 1:37 seems now basically not that unique anymore, right?^^
@@Darkeminence no no no. You see it is the setup, determination, and personal growth that led to that lap time not an exploit at all.... /s
@@DustySticks The message of the video is not wrong, though. (Except, that setups gain 4 seconds :,D) But the actual obvious bug, that has been found and not mentioned here, makes the way to the message a bit sketchy ^^' 3-5 seconds by setup is pretty unrealistically, to be archieved this way :D
Ignoring the click bait title and the ridiculous notion that avoiding setups in sims is cheating my personal growth, you fail to acknowledge that lap times can be up to 7 or more seconds a lap faster just by using hard slicks over soft slicks.
Setups help, learning a track helps, praticing helps but you're lying if you think the exploititive tires aren't what is really helping you.
If I can go from a 1:43.8 to a 1:38.1 simply by changing the tires and nothing else, it makes your argument that all those little changes you did that helped you so much seem a little less accurate.
For anyone struggling to learn how to set up a car, do a google search for “setup flowchart” or “setup cheat sheet”. It will provide you with setup modifications you can make to apply specific fixes for driving characteristics (what suspension adjustments to make to deal with mid-corner oversteer, for example).
You really don’t need to have a deep understanding of how it all works in order to make some really beneficial changes with a few adjustments. Adjusting anti-roll bars, brake bias, and maybe ride height and/or downforce / wing settings is enough to significantly improve how your car handles, and is really pretty easy to understand.
Setup flowcharts are great way to learn setups in a really simply and quick way. However the most important thing before making any setup changes is to drive enough laps so you have consistent braking points, know your line around the track and can lap at least inside one second every lap, preferrably inside half a second. Being consistent is important so you figure out the right problems you need to solve. If you are not consistent it is really easy to misidentify your problems. Too much front brake bias becomes a diff issue, downforce balance issue becomes a springs issue and loose car on exit is actually an understeery car creating oversteer situation when you release the steering coming of corner, causing the fronts to snap and you gain front grip suddenly.
So do enough laps before changing the setup. Unless it is very clear the defaults are bad it is usually better to just drive the car. If the car is really tricky it is rare that there is a magical setup that makes it handle really well. Sometimes the car needs a setup change instantly but 90% of the cases the way it comes out of the box is usable. Other thing is to do small changes and do only one change at a time. This just makes it easier to see if you fixed the problem and feel how the car changed. If you make more than one change you don't really know which change did what.
From easy to difficult I'd say start with getting your brake bias right, then gears so you max out at the end of longest straight. After that you can learn tire pressures. Then the diff. Then springs. Then antirollbars. The downforce. Then dampers. Always use a setup sheet that is divided into different parts of the corner. Oversteer on corner entry needs slightly different solution than oversteer on exit. Avoid any setup sheets that have just oversteer or understeer. Good setup sheet also tells at which speed different things work better. Downforce for example affects high speed corners more than low speed.
I don't know why you are discussing this nearly 10 second improvement and that setup is far more important than driving. as I'm sure you know there is a bug with the soft tyre, which means you gain something like 5 seconds by using the hard tyre. Another 2 seconds is just boost pressure. After that you have about 1 second improvement left and I don't think even that time is likely to come more from setup than from the driving itself. I loaded up default - put boost to 100% and used the hard tyres to do a 37.4 in my first lap and 36.6. in the 2nd lap. Already then beating your lap. Didn't take long to get to WR and then after more effort I got 1:34.77. For the record I also think a game in development with clear bugs and faults are a really bad example. Realistically you can, as longs as there aren't major flaws with the setup, get within 5 tenths on pretty much default - then you indeed need to adjust setup to get the most out of your driving but I think you're just way off in what you're communicating in this video.
Thank you for doing these videos. I have started to learning setups since a couple of days, I have to say it's they key to becoming faster. Absolutely love these videos. Keep those setups videos coming. They push me to learn more, be faster, get better and stay motivated.
I don't bother with setups, at all. There I've said it. Why not? There are two reasons. The first is that in an average month I might have just one or two hours when I can get behind the wheel, and when I just have that limited amount of time then I'm going to do what I enjoy doing and that's driving - obsessing over technical details is what I spend 12-14 hours a day doing so I don't want to do that in my off time. The second reason is that I'm simply not consistent enough to know if a setup has really made a difference - I guess this is kind of related to the first reason in that I don't have the time to practice to "git gud". In my chosen career I've long since accepted that having a time consuming hobby is not possible, and I find that sim racing offers me the jump in jump out kind of hobby where I don't need to go that deep to enjoy myself.
Slap Head : well said! As I had replied to another comment above, looking back over the past 20 years of sim racing, I regret all the time I spent on the minutiae of car setup in lieu of actual driving and improving my craft. The latest sims all have solid stock setups ... good enough for the good guys to go way faster than I can with all my knowledge of physics and car dynamics. Enjoy your racing!
Absolutely agree. Aliens drive faster than us mere mortals because they are just better. No amount of setups is going to make me much faster give or take a few tenths here and there. Just learn the tracks and have fun.
Frank Gubovics : Bravo! My new motto: “Learn the tracks and have fun.” 😊
@@gubin8er898 Aliens are not better. They just invested more time into it. You could say "oh if I had the time". No, it's not a matter of "if I had the time", most of them took the risk of focusing only on it, which is fair enough. If you only do one thing, you might as well be good at it. Personally, besides being a musician, i'm a huge gamer. I don't invest more time than I need to, but I do invest a lot of it in getting good. That includes messing a bit with the setups, but not much because, as you say "just learn the tracks and have fun" that in of itself can and will give you thousands of hours of playtime. The setups are good if you're playing competitively on a high level, and if you have the time to invest it. However, stock setups are there for you to use them anyway, and they are good enough
i feel you - im kind of in the same situation. Simracing is as casual as it gets imo. Although.. once you adjust some toe in on the back and see how you can push your car more through the corners is really where the fun only begins for example...
I'm never too keen to subscribe to a channel. And while I sometimes watch a video of yours, I never really got a signal to do so. Until this moment. You give an incredibly important vision that I share with you. It's about the journey to your goal, the process of becoming, rather than arriving. Important life lesson. Thanks for sharing brother.
Btw the real secret to aliens speed is the trailbraking and getting back on the throttle soon phase. That's why you'll see them gaining gobs of time in the slow stuff while u can keep up with them in the fast stuff for the most part. And AFAIK it's not something easy to replicate even if u saw them doing it. It's a feel and coordination thing.
Absolutely right 💯
It's a practice thing ;) But you still need feel and coordination to help you along.
slatan : absolutely! Ever since my Grand Prix Legends days, Aliens trail-brake millimeter perfect, and accelerate far earlier than anyone else.... and they can do this on stock setups! In my opinion, this video illustrates the effects of overshooting braking points in the quest for quicker lap times, ending up in destabilizing the car on exit. Living on the edge usually ends in disaster, as my racing will amply illustrate 😊.
@@edteach3r the dude was losing control over the car on exists multiple times because of it. He could get maybe 2 or 3 seconds just by being smoother. Being smoother and coordinate trailbraking with the throttle management can be more beneficial than tinkering with setups
Pedro Silva : Totally.
oh the setups... I'm of two minds on the setup thing - for one I think if ur just beginning (1st year of simracing) ud be actually better off practicing ur lines and getting to know intimately ALL the tracks u can (not only the fast lines but also where can I and where can't I overtake). The other side of the coin is u will inevitably hit a wall of ur own talent (or lack thereoff) and then I'd suggest get on and learn how to setup the car to ur liking.
I feel like learning the setup right from the beginning puts the emphasis in the wrong place. It's like a kid instead of learning to actually ride a bike would learn how to repair it. First get to know the tracks and car u would be running. Without deep knowledge of how the car behaves and the REPEATABILITY of ur own inputs you won't be able to make the right setup decisions (understeer in a car can be a setup problem but it also can be driver induced). U have to be sure that ur hitting ur marks just right every time before u jump to conclusions about the setup. I see more and more that setups r treated like a magic pill - it's not.
Story time:
Years ago racing in iRacing we had open setup series and inevitably the aliens always ended up at the top. There was a lot of crying and whining from part of the community that we should race with fixed setups cause setups is cheating and they don't have the time to spend on setting up blah blah blah. So they made a fixed setup series and guess who was at the top again? Yes, the same aliens that dominated the open set series.
Now I'm not saying setups r not important but it's easy to fall into a trap where u constantly blame the cars setup for ur mediocre pace, where in reality u should adapt and keep improving ur lines/racecraft etc. U'll constantly be going back to garage to make pointless adjustments instead of actually practicing and improving ur driving. As long as the car doesn't wanna kill u every corner u should be able to adapt to it and adjust ur driving style to fit the cars characteristics better. Remember whatever u'll do to a mid-engined cars setup it will never drive like a front-engined car.
I think you're absolutely right and I personnally should focus on my consistency, racing line, braking points etc first. But our youtuber also has a point that as a simracer you should try and understand everything that impacts your laptime. Let me just paraphrase the Last Samurai: "one should aim for perfection in everything the endeavour". It is a high standard to live by for sure, but for me simracing would not make sense if I didn't try to abide by it.
Well done luv your first video on the set up in Kyalami I have only manage a low 1.44 at the same track but driving on my kitchen table.
Enjoying the videos Ermin!
Personally, I've always enjoyed tinkering with car setups & I genuinely thing a bit of knowledge about dampers, spring rates, diffs etc. will make you a better driver!
Yes, knowing what's wrong with the car can also help. Sometimes you think "oh I have understeer" but your line was off, and t hen you do another lap, and you realize you didn't actually need it lmao
Love the video! Great work and awesome advice.
I think "minor" car setups are VERY important though. First, learn the car and track until you can do 3-5 consistent laps of your best lap time. During that learning period, you should be able to understand what the car needs to improve. Only things I really touch are ARB, Brake Bias, Rear/Front wings, Splitter, Brake Pressure, Camber, Toe in/out and that's it. All of the above usually doesn't take long to setup. All of the above are very easy to tell it has made a difference for me. And those are necessary to make the car loose or tight to help achieve better cornering, stability and straight line speeds. Tires, I unusually set them as low as possible without affecting too much straight line speed, or just leave em stock.
Overall, minor car setup, keeping the car on the black stuff and not locking up are all I need to keep up in mid pack battles. Can't fuss too much over car technical setups. Aliens achieve lap records and chips with crap sim racing hardware. And some are still really fast on stock setups
Great point, I think also a bit of a cause for that problem is lack of decent base-line setup for those that don't know anything, that is why they are buying setups, you can't blame them but they need to understand that doing that they still loose a lot because what will make you fast and good driver is understanding of what you are driving with and making it do all the things you want and how how you want them, there are some fast setups you can buy and apply and it will feel better than base, of course it will, there are rarely good track specific baseline setups already in-game, but if you look for ultimate speed you need to make your car your very own car and apply self made setup with all your needs, I am huge fan of ACC I think that base setups there that are made track specific by devs and are actually really really competitive and super fast but that doesn't change the fact that for ultimate speed you need to personalize it, for me it was great starting point with learning setups and that is why now I hugely enjoy that aspect of sim-racing because with good base line there are fewer things that needs to be changed and I could appreciate them more and the change they bring rather than just trying to make the car drive properly at a basic level which I think is that frustrating thing that stops ppl from even trying anything themselves, I think it's what simracing needs, a bit better baseline for those you don't have time or don't feel need for setup but in the same time we need to make people aware with videos like this that the best setup is your own setup because everyone drives differently, good stuff, great video!
I see it this way: I do not care about setups in the slightest. Simracing is a hobby for me. The more amount of time I spend having fun behind the wheel the better. I cannot justify to myself spending real time trying to save -and please don't take this the wrong way- virtual time in my laps. Plus, it is just another variable to induce artificial differences between racers. I believe that is why they have their place towards the higher levels of competition (alien territory). For 95 % of us..., I think we are much better off just driving or battling it out.
If I could I would create a race/league whatever and would ban setups. I believe it would have its public. Not trying to impose it onto everything. There's internet for everyone and we can all get along. But that's my take and will continue to be so.
So this video is wrong on so many aspects. Setup, unless you get it completely wrong, are only for drivers preference. One can be quick with one setup, but slow with another, whilst someone can have the exact opposite. Then why did you gain so much time you ask? Simple. AMS2 is in early access. This car was released with a massive bug, which also appears in other prototypes. You can use the same setup, but only switch to hard tires, and this car handles completely different. Suddenly the front end works, and its suddenly far more stable under braking.
Finding one exploit doesn't make you an alien. It's definitely not setup related. This is not "their trick" and this title is 100% clickbait.
I’ve started sim racing recently and I just don’t have a clue when it comes to car setups. I’ve been trying to learn what each tweak to the car does and how it handles buts it’s harder than I originally thought. Great work keep it up 👍
I feel your pain but there are some great books out there that can help. Also I find driving the junior category cars first is best. They have less set up options and can help you understand basic setup principles easier. Good luck and keep at it
Fraser Simmonds : Don’t get caught up too much in the hype over setups. Quick drivers are fast irrespective of setup. Looking back at twenty years of sim racing, I regret all the hours pondering over ramp angles, toe-in/out, camber and anti-roll bars, etc, etc. In my opinion, your time is better spent on developing your race craft, understanding what the car is doing and how to get faster by going slower (as Jackie Stewart used to illustrate). RF2, AMS2 and ACC have excellent force feedback that make the learning process so much easier than in the days prior to FFB. Enjoy the journey!
Thanks both of you for your wise words
Awsome vid mate. Couldn't agree more. Hardship is where personal growth is. If you always seek the easy road then there is no motivation to be better.
Awesome stuff. Driving and life advice. Love it.
Well said, especially as it relates more broadly to growth in life. As for the car setup, it was a lot more responsive and worked off 2 seconds for me. The step-by-step why’s and how’s on the setup adjustments were very helpful. Keep going.
The real aliens have not show up on ams2 yet
Agree! No way I can have top times! I only get top 500 in R3E yet I'm top 3 in AMS 2!
I used to have a few world records in grand Turismo 2 and it was all because of a weird setup I discovered that gave some cars a strong ground effects like handling. Most corners above 3rd gear could just be taken at full speed, top gear.
As a new subscriber, allow me to say, Great Video Ermin! After watching your video yesterday on Chassis/Suspension setup, and seeing you make a number of very minor adjustments, I have to say I'm not sure I'd be able to notice any difference in my Simucube 2 and Ricmotech pedals with OR without those changes. Of course, I can try to make small changes to see if I can detect any difference (one change at a time, of course) to problems I think I can improve. But watching these 2 vids makes me hope you can and will do a series on each facet of chassis/suspension setup in the future, and how they interact. As a retired Mech. Engr, this is just one of those things (like Turbomachinery class in 1973) that you have to take your best scientific/physics pass at, and use that as a starting point and then start refining based on experimentation, feel, and experience! Thanks for your GREAT vids to help other sim racers!! :)
Can you recommend videos teaching how to setup a car? I just bought Automobilista 2 but I don't know how to setup cars. Thanks!
is this the School of Life channel? :) good stuff! I will try to come after you guys later today! although i think I already know the result. I hope AMS2 can become a THE platform for online battling, it sure has potential!
Have you played in multiplayer with some friends? It's already unreal!
no, i haven't had yet a proper multiplayer session, other than a first chaotic one. I'm hoping to have some kind of fixed public servers with different racing categories soon enough, like the ones in AC, but hopefully cleaner! (that's asking too much already)
4:42 basically getting satisfied just from any good sounding suggestions came from Andy Sneap forums and/or many top level producers or even stuck with others' presets lmao.
Can you share your settings/sensitivities? I use a t150 and struggle on turning sharp enough or something.
I did 8 laps last night and got 3rd with not really any issue, going to push a bit tonight and see if I can get top spot ;)
Can't we just build a wall to keep outside all those damn aliens??
Well done, Ermin.
While setup is very important, I’ve known people who will blame setups constantly and keep tweaking little bits to barely any improvement without working on their own abilities.
Great video! Not denying anything you’re saying at all.
Were you driving while commentating this lap ? If so i couldn't tell, this proves the quality of your content.I'm glad i could help on that time (even if i didn't do a lot, i use to go with lightly modified stocks setups, i usually am quite shy on setup changes, i tend to mess up the thing more than it was hehe).
Thanks for creating the opportunity to do a cool video.
Ermin, there are plenty of "Setup how to" guides already, BUT I haven't come across a definitive lesson driven guide yet. Most seem to get lost in the weeds of complications with out offering a sound grounding.
I think a good approach may be to take a couple of different cars, a GT and an open wheeler of some kind perhaps, and take us through setting them up step-by-step on separate tracks explaining what you are doing, why you are doping it and the effect it is having. Your last video was really good but covered too much at once (maybe?) I know it was meant as more of an overview. I'm sure if you get a really good setup-how-to together along with your excellent explanations you would gain a lot of followers.
Craig Cottam : I agree. I am a HUGE fan of Aris Drives of ACC fame. He gets right into this. For example, check out ruclips.net/video/P9QuVZT4sLo/видео.html.
Can you tell us more about your music production? I have a small home studio myself.
The problem with AMS 2 is, there is just way too much on the setup screen. There are so many options, and I don't know what is worthless to mess with on this sim. It's much more simple in ACC for example
I just started seriously focusing on consistency instead of just having pure fun sim racing. My laps vary by about 1.5 seconds (same course, same car), should that be tighter before I even attempt to start getting into car setups?
You give off a vibe that you may know a couple people I know. Are you familiar with a few blokes in Melb by the names of Stevie G, Spiro and Ivka?
Well said. Subscribed.
We just all want to be the best, with as little work as possible. So I understand if someone doesn't like setups. I still take them as a complication of the game, but I am a beginner and I have not yet found the limits of the default setups. But I'm slowly beginning to realize that without setups, the game would be boring after a few months.
The fact i have no interest in making setups in all my 20 years of simracing is not a cop out at all. Even if i wanted to learn and make my own i simply dont have the time, the time i do have to simrace i prefer to just drive. 4:28 is a bit of a cheap shot to be totally honest Ermin, really comes across as condescending and overly critical of those of us who take simracing less casual than the elitists.
Still really enjoy your content by the way.
It's not my goal to be disparaging - I just love to see people achieve their potential, whether it be in music production, fitness, sim racing or whatever. There are 3 main things at play here:
1) Tweaking setups is not as hard as most people think.
2) Tweaking setups will allow you to enjoy more cars, and increase the fulfillment you get from sim racing overall. I couldn't drive the Sigma at all prior to doing my adjustments - you can see that in the video two nights ago!
3) The increase in performance is hard to go past. mehdis is a better driver than I am, but had I gone into the hotlap with my setup and he went in with his original one, it's likely I'd have been ~2 seconds faster on account of setup alone.
I'd strongly suggest even just bookmarking a cheat sheet. It'll not only help you enjoy more cars, but just have a better overall time with sim racing!
@James Moir This one is great: www.racedepartment.com/threads/automobilista-how-to-set-your-car-up.132909/
Hey Ermin, can you put up your throttle and brake inputs on screen, if AMS2 has that option?
I don't think it's an option yet. Hope they add it, really helps with working out trail breaking pressure.
i want to learn but i dont even know where to start... in all honesty, id love a game where nobody could change, everyone, same weapon, gas, tires, go
assetto corsa, silverstone national, fiat tipo competizione, 1:00:886. and the guys are ONE SECOND ahead me right now.
I currently have 1 world record on race room, i want more tho lmao
Haha that didn't see that coming at the end... Video came at the perfect moment as well... I'm studying math and physics, both really do interest me, but it's very time consuming if you trying to understand even the most trivial problem to a level where you really can say "I understand what happens there". I was just in a moment were was really pissed at something not working out and kind of gave up and startet scrolling youtube and found your video.
Building car setups are kind of the same to me... I'd really like to understand them but somehow I am not able to put the time into that. Not because I don't have the time, but because I don't have the pation for it... It took me couple of semesters to really get that pation for my university stuff, but I can't really put into simracing. Since I'm trying every day for like half an hour I'm decently good at certain car track combinations... Like you I drove hours of Nordschleife (track is like 50 km from my home... so of course) in GT3 so I'm pretty solid around there, same with Spa in GT3 (I mean I am like a second or one and half slower then those aliens... But in normal ACC races I finish in top 3, top 5 normally... Winning every fifth race or so. I'm totally ok with my pace there, since I normally have a group to fight with every race, and everyone at least knows what hes doing. If I was able to do 2:17 effortlessly around Spa the chance of me just charging off in front is very high)
But trying a new track (for example Paul Richard in ACC) takes me like week to even get 5 clean laps in... Like I mean it... I tried going for 99 track rating for like 3 month but tracks like Paul Richard took me so many trys... I try to go to fast to quickly and get pissed off doing so, so I'm done after like 20 minutes. So how am I even supposed to build a setup then? In my opinion you need to be able to get a somewhat clean lap in no matter what setup you use before you start building your own setup... Like give me any car with any setup around Nordschleife and I say I am able to get like in 10 seconds of what world records with that car and setup is. Same with Spa and say 2 seconds. But learning new - some times boring looking - tracks is for some reason extremly frustrating to me... I hope I somehow can change that mindset, since I know how fun it is once you "master" a new track.
Same with my studying... It always sets adrenaline in me once I feel like I understand big theorems of mathematics or being able to understand the mathematics behind some physicst theoremes (those mathematics isn't explained by the physics professor... Physic professors are like "yeah stuff makes sense if you think about it... And (by coincidence) it fits with the rules of mathematic, but lets not talk about that". However I don't have the willpower to really get into a topic right now, always frustrated when I don't find the answer on google...
I also decided to see this video because I was pissed off by a math problem from my unvsrty lol
I suppose it depends what you want to get out of a sim, if you want to be one of the top guys then yes you need to learn how to set up a car, for me personally i just dont find that kind of stuff fun, i could see myself get obsessed and frustrated trying to get the right setup and that just doesnt sound like fun to me personally.
people who arent even remotely interested in seting up their car by themselves, should not call themselves actual sim racers. #fact
what are you going to hire an actual mechanic to handle some mousetweaks for you?? Without you knowing what changed and why? Tuning was the pinnacle of GT and such sims, thats why i fell in love with sim racing and cars.. and sim drift later on. Ive learned to setup my own car day by day, daily challenge by daily challenge. Trial and error, saving, resaving and also accidentally overwriting some setups and loose them in the process... Ive maybe spent like 2hrs per day just tuning every car i aquired just to see it drift somewhat competitively - if drifting , by comparing points and or replays. Best time of my life, and ive also learned a lot about cars and suspension in general.
Its a great topic for everyone interested but a tedious amount of work put in for someone who just wants to casually game cars. :D
It all got to the point where i thought i needed an irl. project car but then decided its more realistic and expensive/flashy to just stick with simracing XD
I have to admit, it's quite frustrating to have someone turn up at the last minute and totally demolish you during the race with an acquired setup. Especially after spending a lot of time tinkering with a customised setup yourself. It's like the student who never studies and still aces the test. But then again setup and driving ability go hand in hand, and I definitely lack in the latter.
if u'd spend the time u've spend on setup on actually improving ur driving and track knowledge this problem wouldn't bother u that much.
@@slatanek why not try and do both at the same time?
@@Barry_Mmm well, it's obvious - focusing on one thing gets all the focus on that one thing, ergo u learn that thing way faster and more in depth. Other reason would be as with everything - if u don't know the basics well, touching the advance stuff might push u to wrong conclusions. Example: if u just started to learn coding and u set out to program an operating system u r gonna fail miserably and this for sure will impede ur learning process or put u off entirely.
fast people I know give away their setups as a challenge.
Ian B I've yet to come across a setup that would improve my time by more than 0.3s, had a couple aliens setups too. Thing is I'm at it for quite a while so have the basics nailed pretty much.
im in 10th spot now, guess it's time to learn the track xD
Is this this same ermin from systematic productions?
yes, you can tell from 4:42 and his voice alone
insane times, i cannot for the life of me get even close to that ????
3:58 Enough said.
fuaa yallah cuz... just get a vl turbo bro
SETUPS ARE THAT HARD TO MAKE🤦♂️ even if you are a beginner.
For example: Let's say you're driving a MX5 Cup Car at Laguna Sega (I'm using my experience form Iracing but my sure all sims are the same). Just by softening the front anti roll bar you will have a safer car.
Btw idk if this is faster if you are already fast, but for me at least I'm faster with the setup change because I can push the car more.
a softer front ARB will give you a car that turns better, not a safer car
I don't here people talk about joycalib files, wheelrotation/force feedback setting. Also simracing is pay to win....you cannot be faster or more consistent on v3fanatec pedal set than a Heusinkveld Ultimates pedal set....
Well said
I guess the 20 thumbs down don’t know how to do setups 😂😂
Setup helps, sure. But a true "alien" will beat any one by a second per minute with the same setup. There's not knack for being good.
Spoken like a true.... Personal trainer here's a life's challenge, set a WR on an established track/car combo there is a lot more to it than set up, you lose time in every turn, its s good lap but it'll get smashed to pieces the true way to set a WR, perfectionism, concentration this title is misleading but it was a big clue that the sigma is the thumbnail and the car and track have been avaliable for little to no time on a game that is in beta and is played by a fraction of the community. I'd say sounds like you have delusions of grandeur.
Seriously, setups are much the same as music production. If you don't understand gain staging or how different types of compressors work then copying someone else's plugin settings are just as bad.
Came here thinking "yep, this is just another cheap clickbait" and oh boy was I wrong
Why so much people tell that ams2 is something like pc2?
It uses same game engine.
LMAO, I probably pay more in taxes than you earn in a year. Personal growth requires spending money on setups? Bonehead logic.
Defiantly.