The HUGE problem F1 is facing with the FIA
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- F1 drivers getting angry and inconsistent decisions... it's fair to say that there's still quite a few problems needing to be ironed out within the sport.
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It's like Michael Masi never left. Which probably means that Michael Masi wasn't the problem.
100%
Yeah, I feel like he was instructed to do what he did last year. FOM and FIA wanted a grand finale and Massi had to deliver. To top it off he had two crazy team principles and directors screaming at him in that safety car period.
He was still a big problem. The problem is Charlie had respect but demanded control and was doing it for many many year's but he had he's faults. Masi on the other hand mad massive mistake including big safety one's like not red flaging a race straight away to many right them all down. It's the two different rule books that don't help you got the fia regulations and the f1 sporting code both inconsistent with each other and written in French then translated not very well into English.
@@chriscollins550 The same problems exist from when Masi was RD, the only difference is they needed someone to blame for all the crying at the end of the season. Nothing is better now that he is gone.
THIS!!!
I never understood why it’s so difficult to have a team of 12 stewards to rotate between races and have the others connected via a football like VAR room. Also have both race directors present to have more consistency. Why is this such struggle
Maybe the FIA has some Ferrari blood in them. You know, the incompetent type.
@@joyl7842 good one…
Eduardo Freitas is still Race director for WEC. And sometimes the dates collide. But I agree that rotating RD is a mess.
when the 2 race director thing was anounced i thought it would be like this not how it actualy is now the problem of inconsistency is worse then before
Can't have the same stewards because of problems like being paid off or favouritism of one team or another they have stewards that are all trained by the fia ex racing driver as on of them for the racing driver point of view. Var and sensors on the car's but the problem is with session even the smallest one's are heavy on an f1 car's comparison. But it shouldn't be to hard to see the var and cameras to point out who was at fault 🙄
I've got the impression a lot of these big sports-associations (FIA, Fifa, IOC, etc.) are led (and key-positions are occupied) by people with quite an ego and power-claim instead of just being silent partners that provide the general framework and only step in when absolutely needed. They put themselves front and center and not surprisingly are often having rather good relations with a lot of shady and corrupt politicians as well as dictators. These organizations need to focus on the sport again instead of accumulating power and money.
ICC is better than fia fifa and other sport associations
it’s all down to money at the end of the day. as long as the money comes in they don’t seem to care.
not to mention most of those in the authoritative positions don’t have a back ground in motorsport. add in the piety which comes to those in positions of power and wealth gives you people who act in self interest and can’t admit wrong doing
Yeah these organisations only seek power.
I hate that people in these associations don't give a shit about the sport and more often than not, are corrupt little shits. Football association in my country, have several people that belonged to a criminal gang in the 90's and early 2000's, and are known to be involved in murders, not including other shit they have done. So frustrating.
Their ego and power hunger is what drives them to go after the position they have in those organization.
I've said this many times before over the years, it's insane that a sport as big as F1 doesn't have a race director and a team of stewards that travel together to every race. No taking turns or swapping stewards around. One dedicated team for every single race. That's the only way to have consistency.
The logic is to have regular steward rotation to try and help prevent driver bias.
Of course, having a *team* of stewards should negate that problem in the first place...
I mean they should hand fia to the fans. Let them vote 😂😂😂
Thats pathetic. You need to have as many COMPETENT people as possible in those positions. Thats how everyone is kept in check and no one will dare to start making up their own rules. Thats hoe you ensure consistency. Thats why court juries arent compksed either by professionals at it or by a single person
@@Dat-Mudkip just look at austria with the stewards dropping the extinguisher and walking away from carlos , how's that anti bias
@@rumbling3991 That’s a marshal, not a steward…..
All I know is Masi is sitting back laughing at everyone who thought replacing him would make things better 😂
Exactly,there isnt one clown doing things,if nothing Masi wasn't even bad,but tell that dts fans that are louder than actual fans and insiders
Yeah i feel like this year is way worse than when we had Masi
One person can't really single handedly control all decisions. This is why governing body exists in the first place. So blaming a single person is just another stupidity. So obviously, Masi isn't the problem even last year. It's the board of FIA themselves. Such bunch of clowns, honestly.
Nah, Masi was going to get someone killed for no good reason, he’d earned his ire well before Abu Dhabi.
His tenure was a complete disaster. I don't care if he is laughing, he was terrible at the race director job.
WTF1 helps fill the dark void between races.
St. Matty is good to us
The dark void can sometimes be quite an enigma.
@@ElementsUnknown that's a horrible take. Matt is horrible.
I hope he doesnt vanish after Hungary.
This is exactly what happened in the late 1970's in American open wheel racing. USAC were the sanctioning body, but when the teams became fed up with how USAC was policing the championship they started a new series run by the team owners themselves.
and it was one of the worst thing in the history of the sport, we shouldn't follow what they did
F1 teams almost did just that in 2009 I believe
This is not some second rate national series.
@@soisaidtogod4248 no, it's a 4th rate international series
For anybody wishing to make jokes about the soviet union here: this does NOT resemble communism. Communism is state run, and the very point of this is that it isn't
I saw the Perez track limits happen live and was like wow he’s gone out! Then he was in Q3 and I was scratching my head thinking are they only watching track limits on specific corners again? Watch quali back again and you will see it. So why didn’t they?
They relied on sensors
They are dumb, sleeping on the job, lazy, useless or incompetent. Take your pick
@@Querientje Then they should've removed his time instantly.
@@Querientje sensors that weren't on the car...
@@Querientje there's no track limit sensors on a F1 car
There's nothing to say they have to use the FIA as it's authority, the FIA don't own anything F1 actually use, teams, circuits and whatnot are all independent from each other. F1 could set up it's own authority, yes it'd take a lot of money and effort to do, but they could.
That would be like having a World Cup without FIFA involvement. Wait...I like that idea.
Self policing is inherently a bad idea. An outside governing body is obviously a better option.
@@tilley31 more like a world cup without (FIFA) referees
You can't use the name without the FiA. They'd need to rebrand into GP1 or something. F1 is a FiA Series. Thats why it was GP2 before it became the official FiA series now known as F2.
@@CinematicHypeTV Nothing to say Liberty Media won't just buy out the names from the FIA
Reasonable strategy: Have 3 directors control what happens in things like penalties instead of just 1.
FIA: Anything else
It always amazes me that in soccer, tennis and so on we've had digital imaging software, line monitors, video referees and all that jazz to see if the ball remains between the lines for years, but it is somehow impossible to do the same to keep the wheels between the lines.
I know, the the scale is much larger and there's quite a few tracks, but seriously, seems like a worthwhile investment at this point.
Top-flight motorcycling events fit trackers to the bikes.
Ikr the cars have cameras on them. It could be done. Most modern road cars have lane assist now that looks for white lines using a camera and if you cross the line. Meanwhile F1 falls back to the human system. Something that we know is inconsistent and will make mistakes
In Holland, even with all the tech available in the top football league, there was still controversy about a ball being on or outside the pitch right before a goal was made. All the supporters of the team that scored where of the opinion the ball was on the pitch. The supporters of the team that conceded where convinced it was not. Neutral supporters had mixed opinions. Controversy will remain, no mater how much tech you implement.
@@gummbyandpokey they had a system in Austria in most of the corners which they removed Sunday just before the race because it had proven useless. You could see on the broadcast before the race started some marshals removing a wire from the kerbs. That was the sensors they had
@@chielwieringa1085 well, here in Portugal we had an offside for 2cm. No one disputed the 2cm off but there was huge controversy that 2cm shouldnt count. Even if traditionally everyone craps on English football there were people saying they should do like the premier league that simply made the line thicker than the system's margin of error in order to avoid having a 2cm situation.
When FIA said they were going to learn from the mistakes of last year, they didn't mean fixing the stewarding mistakes and having rules applied consistently. What they meant was making sure that no one else at FIA would need to take responsibility for their mistakes the way Masi had to do.
I was watching perez’s Q2 lap live, and i knew the moment i saw it that he went off track… and was thinking it was only a matter of time before it got deleted… but then of course nothing ever came to be, so i assumed i was wrong, only for me to find out that he got a penalty a couple hours later… i mean come on, this shouldn’t be that hard… im a stupid fan and i saw it live
I don't know about you being stupid, because you are able to do a better job than the actual Race Director... and do it with nothing more than a internet feed!!!
I feel like it needs to be reiterated, the rd doesn’t hand out penalties, the stewards do!
New rd or not, the stewards are the same and will always judge things differently!
The stewards are chosen for each gp. They are constantly changing
@@GonzoDonzo that's the issue. It was very clear that the people giving out penalties in Silverstone and Austria were different.
Very true. The race direction this season has been better than last year. Except Monaco. The decision not to start the race until it was too wet was a questionable one.
@@theSafetyCar Charles in Jeddah crossing the pit entry line multiple times and rear light not being on plus Silverstone everyone being pushed off and I'm sure many other things. It's just like last year, everyone just thought replacing Masi would fix everything and its the same.
@@GonzoDonzo yeah, but it’s the same group of ‘regulars’ if you will, who were in rotation like last year, no? Haven’t heard anything about new stewards or anything like that, who were in other categories last year, moving up.
Perhaps they should make a group of like 10 stewards who officiate every single race, otherwise people should accept differences between races, same as i. Football, where prem refs never give red cards for damn near assassination attempts, but in italy they’re handing out penalties like candy
I have been screaming this into the void for years. The fact that the pinnacle of motorsports doesn’t have a dedicated set of stewards is absurd
The green screening at 2:21 is insane! Well done Matt
You should have mentioned that the meeting in Austria didn't even have the stewards/race director from silverstone so they pretty much couldn't answer the drivers' questions for silverstone
In my opinion, the stewarding this year is more consistent than it was last year
You're not wrong. Last year was perhaps one of the lowest point in F1 history when it came to stewards consistency, or rather the lack of. It's easy to forget, but this year is waaaaay better. However, I also don't think it's quite enough yet. It could and should be so much better. There's so many things that they could easily improve upon, but for whatever reason hasn't been done. Off-track sensors in the cars is something so easy I could whip a functional system up over a weekend, there's no way F1 wouldn't be able to implement one. And the rotating stewards bit is just completely worthless. Keep the same ones around for an entire season for consistency's sake
@@Excludos can't keep the same stewards because of problems like favoritism or taking bribes. That's why the fia have never used the same stewards in any of their sport's bit it only seems f1 has the most problems.
@@chriscollins550 teams know who the stewards are before an event. If they want to bribe them they can do so already. The people being appointed as Stewarss can be vetted to ensure no favouritism. They seem to be confident enough to do it with the race directors. They can do it with stewards too.
@@theSafetyCar no the team's don't know who the stewards will be until Friday it's not told to them for many reasons.
Did you miss Silverstone? One can argue they didn't penalize anyone for the benefit of the spectacle, seems familiar.
I say the drivers,F1 commenters and pundits get to decide what the FIA needs to change in the future. Might be a long shot but anything would be better than the current FIA
@RAYAMA--⭕️ WDYTA?
What Do You Talking About?
well maybe not fans, as we don't get to see Everything, can't switch view angle or camera on an incident
If there's one thing that shouldn't happen is fans getting a say. I see the dumbest takes on social media every week.
@@pauls5745 not to mention they bias we all hold towards teams and drivers! sounds like a recipe for more angry armchair officials to me !
F1 driver's and team's do get a say unless it's under safety concerns or TDs other than that they do vote on it and then agree to any new regulations.
A centralized team of stewards working remotely with a technologically advanced monitoring system, communicating with the stewards at the track would be helpful. In the states, referees at our football and baseball games are always in communication with a team of officials based in New York City, that review replays immediately after they happen, and inform and guide the referees on the field with all of the facts and evidence to make their penalty. There’s little time for the referees on the field to discuss. I think the FIA could adopt this strategy.
I think it's important to mention that whenever one race director is not doing F1, he IS NOT chilling on his couch watching the race. They are most likely going after their other racing duties in WEC, DTM etc.
So this is worse, and probably explains why they bring the wrong rule book with them. F1 needs a RD that is concentrating on it, not some other series.
Always a good day when WTF1 Posts
Facts right there hello person
Definitely got excited when I saw this
Wow I didn't expect to see you here
Just don't go around the rules to create drama or a spectacle. That was the lesson to learn from Massi, not change everything.
Why do you think they didn't penalize anyone in Silverstone? For the spectacle. Nothing has changed since Masi is gone, they just needed a scapegoat to shut up the Merc camp.
I just want consistency.
@@MikeD-ej2ho bro they literally just need to follow the rules
@@gaurav1265 it’s not always that simple in F1. Everyone should know that by now. Every incident is unique and a set of rules doesn’t always apply to every situation.
The best solution is:
Track limits director
Overtake director
Pitlane violation director
Track Marshal/Crash and safety director
Basically all aspects followed by one director which would then have one overall race director which is held by two and oversees that all directors are cooperating and are functional. The two main directors only have a say if the rules set in place by individual directors have been broken by the director in question. All individual directors must work with the drivers and teams to come to a agreement on the correct rules for F1 and how to enforce them.
This would lower the workload and means no inconsistency as all directors are at each race and will stop a 2021 Abu Dhabi situation because it is not one director making the major decision.
They arent willing to pay the cirrent amount of stewards they have and you want to add more positions? I imagine its already hard enough to find 4 people willing to be stewards each race, unpaid!
Here’s an idea. You have 2 race directors, and at every single race they work with the stewards to make rulings on race issues. And they work with the VAR system to help make rulings. On top of that, there is a small review process from another FIA official off track that will correct any decisions made after the fact.
as long as humans are still the last one to decide, VAR systems and such are just a bandaid.
They already have a team offtrack reboewing footage and handing what they think is relevant to stewards
I think that, regardless who will be the race director, some issues will always arise. Charlie was as good as you can get, but occasionally there were some problems. FIA need 1 race director with all the support from the racing team. It will take time to get respect and trust from the teams, and a lot of patience too. Last year major problem was that every team was able to call directly or sending emails during racing. That in the end put too much pressure and mistakes did occur.
This year they can and do the same thing. They simply dont put it in the tv broadcast anymore
Yes, I also believed that they would have two directors at each race to get better solutions in heated moments. But rotating means that it is one person that has to do all the hard lifting also if it is heated moments.
As annoying as it was to hear "track limit warning" every 2-3 seconds in Austria, it was fair...up until it wasn't and screwed over Pierre getting a chance to go to Q3 which is no small thing especially given that anyone with a basic tv set saw he'd crossed the line. The one thing about fairness is you have to have consistency because when you don't literally from GB to Austria, understandably drivers and teams are going to be pissed because it's going to seem like everything is just done on a whim or it comes down to favoritism. I think you absolutely have to have someone there that is there every single race. Rotate the main guys but have the "assistant to," be there for accountability and fairness because we don't want this to turn into baseball where every other season they're on strike.
So you get yhe main guys off the hook and create some low level guy thats there just to be scape goated when needed. Doesnt seem like a brilliant idea
@@fgsaramago as opposed to nobody being there now that was at every race???? I mean, this is a plan suggestion if they intend to keep rotating which at present they don't seem to want to stop. Right now there isn't even a scape goat or anyone to reference who is at Race B when these drivers meetings happen, when they've left Race A. So aside from obviously have the same person there every week (which by the way was so great they fired him last year which is why we're in this mess now), what is your plan?
@@Banyo__ in case you havent yet noticed, drivers are called to go talk to the stewards after the race whenever theres action against them during the race. Some people even question the point if the penalty in most cases wont be overturned (excepttion for cases they specifically hear from drivers before deciding). As such, its a false problem to begin with. Drivers already can and do talk to the relevant stewards
@@fgsaramago Let me explain it to you. Like in Austria, you've gotten a penalty for ramming into Sergio Perez. You go see the stewards because you feel that's unfair. You complain in this race because in the GB race last week, X stewart did not dock anyone for the same exact action...hmm...now where is X steward to explain? Where is anyone that was involved in his decision making process???? He's at home drinking pina coladas. Problem not solved. Hence this is the main issue here. Now, what was your plan?
Have a group of 3 or 4 stewards that travel to each race and get rid of the guest stewards, add a sensor to the cars for track limits that makes it electronic and takes it out of the stewards decisions. Have both race directors at the race to work together or a team, Charlie W had a team of people backing him up when he was race director, remove any ambiguity in the rules
Constructive feedback: when discussing a controverse topic, please also mention the opposing perspective. Then the arguments can be put in perspective and the viewer has a better understanding of the topic.
What about this is controversial tho... everyone pretty much agrees the F1 stewarding and race direction is dogshit
that yellow board with "in a nutshell" was brilliant
that "in a nutshell" sign was nicely integrated ;)
Some great edits in this clip.....and was that the Benny hill theme too?
If I was following Indy/CART in 96 I would say I was getting those vibes in the current situation, F1 going rogue and being independent, but I guess doing it in a worldwide scale is much more difficult
They could scale back to being a more European focused racing, not an expert on Cart/Indy but watched SlapShoe's video around it and Indy focused on its core audience so maybe F1 could do the same.
I think it's after effects that's used for these awesome text tracking scenes. Love the work!
F1 teams and drivers are also a major part of the problem. Doesn't matter who is governing the sport, the teams and drivers will always constantly moan something is unfair.
They refuse to accept rules, always looking for loopholes or ways to weasel out of following them. When someone does put the foot down, they threaten the sack the governing body: that being the case makes the sport impossible to govern by anyone.
Maybe it doesnt translate over, but i used to compete internationally in fencing, a referee judged sport. Which means that different referees have different 1. Interpretations of the same written rules 2. Levels of competency. This is normal even at the highest level. Through experience you get to learn what each referee's interpretation is. So long as the referee is consistent with themselves, the inconsistencies between different referees is normal and to be expected imo.
All that being said I know motorsport is a different beast entirely with much more safety risks.
Its just tough to account for an entire body of stewards that changes every race. Imo they should work harder at making sure they eliminate as many situations where stewards have to get involved as possible. Design the tracks so it punishes the drivers for going off. Its how it was done for decades but in the search for safety theyve eliminated most risk of putting a wheel or the entire car off track.
2:20 lol that Pirelli sign turned into "in a nutshell" i dunno why that cracked me up
should be 3 of the 4 Race directors at every race weekend.
this is getting absurd
I loved the racing in silverstone, but like max says “you always have to leave the space” until he is about to passed obviously.
Agreed
#toxicf1fans
@@justjaee546 Nice hashtag but it can't distract from the truth. He got a bit cleaner but 2021 was full-on garbage with way too many launches and desperate attempts, and in Silverstone he proved especially against Mick that he interpretes what he says quite freely.
That's an Alonso quote not a Max quote.
@@woodduck2178 max quote is a yoke. A yoke.
Kinda like how MMA is like in the US, each state has their own athletic commission which have different rules depending on which state you're competing in (iirc)
In terms of race directors, what I would do is, have 4 of them, every race there is a head director & three minors, the head position rotates between races. Whenever an issue is presented, penalties, etc, they vote & head director gets 2 points, the others get 1, of course this needs to be slightly streamlined process. If an urgent on spot decision needs to be made the head director gets to do it.
The FIA doesn't want to cede influence over F1 and therefore has a vested interest in keeping the rules as vague and inconsistently enforced as possible since the more they are the more influence over the sport the FIA has.
All the FIA has done is attempted to do as little was possible while acting like they were actually making any meaningful changese
Have the two race directors jointly fill the position and have two seperate stewarding teams. One team monitors VRC at all times, with one steward per team (participating). When the VRC finds a violation, the steward looks at it and confirms whether or not it is actually a Violation. If it is not confirmed, then it is recorded and reviewed at the end of the race. If it is confirmed, then it is sent to the other stewarding team for review.
Both teams switch places halfway through the season. During the switch, there will be a briefing where each team shows and gives their reasoning that lead to decisions made during the last event. That fixes the stewarding.
As for VRC, that is fairly easy. Just have location sensors embedded in the wheel covers. And have wheel cams.
I’d be careful of demanding consistency based on the rule book as there has to be some wiggle room for different scenarios. In Formula E, there have been 2 clear examples of rules that make sense until you get to specific scenarios.
First was in Berlin, where JEV set the same time as Sims in the duels, but was eliminated as he was the second driver to do so, as the rules state, even though he had to go second as per duel rules.
More recently was New York, where a sudden downpour caused a number of cars to slam into the wall, including a car smashing into the battery of Nick Cassidy, the race winner, and requiring him to have a replacement battery, which is against the rules, thus having him penalised to the back of the grid even though he qualified on pole, lose the three points for pole, and have a drive through penalty, for a crash on a racetrack which was deemed too dangerous by the FIA.
More consistency would be great in F1, but be careful what you wish for.
Then we get to "the spirit of the rules" and there we are lost...
@@JM_daDoc What's the spirit of the rules though, it means nothing if you can't even handle grasp the actual rules, then when the actual rules themselves are incompetent/not fit enough for purpose, then what.. what's the spirit of the rules then I mean what are they gonna do fill in the gaps and just make it up on the fly, idk, I am just not sure anymore after what I have seen these past couple of decades.
The key to success in anything is consistency. One race director (or two together) and one set of stewards.
the overtaking in a courner, you said "the car on the outside needs to be marginaly ahead of the exit"
I've heard others say it's the point of the Apex (which makes nog sense)
I nearly missed The “In a nutshell” sign
Simplify the rules. Put sensors in the wheel hubs and detectors on the track limit, if you trip the sensor an official looks at the incident and if you weren't pushed off or clearly didn't gain an advantage then you get a strike, three strikes and you get a penalty. Overtakes, if a car is alongside in any way shape or form then you must leave racing room, if visibility is a problem then either use spotters, blindspot sensors or implement bigger mirrors. Why does this have to be so hard?
Great video.......
Reform takes time but consistency with the current rules is the minimum people should be given. Unfortunately as in football no 2 incident are identical especially when a subjective approach is used. British GP was exciting but must also be immensely infuriating for the drivers that were wronged by the outcome post Safety car restart.
Why can't we hear the teams radio communications to the Race Directors ?
Last year we got to see just how bad the team acted towards the RD.
Toto acting as if his best friend betrayed him was very scary to hear just how chumey he was with that guy.
I think we need those radios open.
That moment created the most toxic community in F1.
@@MikeD-ej2ho Shocking to hear Toto. "No !!! Mikey No!!!! This is not right !!!"
@@mrj3217 it just was unnecessary and adds fuel to the fire. In my opinion of course.
Var like system, actual team of fixed directors, rules more focused in straight guidelines, taking away much of the grey areas. It could be a start. But instead we got Ferraried again, the incompetence is astonishing
3 race directors, working in rotation with one a lead director, another as deputy and third watching/chilling from home. they rotate 'down' so that;
*_previous race ---> this race_*
lead director ---> deputy
deputy director ---> chilling
chilling director ---> lead
do something similar with stewards, so 2/3rd of them are from previous weekend
The issue is the rules being subject to interpretation, not the fact that the directors switch. The FIA must work to make the regulations more certain
Yeah, I never understood why they went with rotating race directors. I thought the idea was going to be to have a race director with a team of support officials to reduce his task loading, not an anarcho-syndicalist commune where people take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week.
My friend Tony says the FIA should split from F1. He says they should start a Monaco Grand Prix League.
i miss Michael Masi
Said no one ever
@@kwabenagyamfi7325 yo watch out edge lord with your sharp intellect. You may just hurt someone!
You are right; dual race directors and rotating stewards don’t help with consistency and clarity. However, it does address the potentially more damaging problem: the perception of a fixed race to benefit a particular party. Not saying we shouldn’t push for better. Just pointing out what I think the FIA was really worried about
It's good. No more consistency needed.
Although the strict implementation of track limits like at the Austrian GP would be great.
But still the current level of variability is great.
applying the rule book in black and white makes for nobody actually racing. may as well drive around in a colourful parade. The gray area exists, and is allowed to exist, for that very reason.
I bet if your favourite team didn't benefit from the black and white rulebook application, you'd be crying it's too strict.
@@AKStovall Unfortunately your bet if wrong. Besides I said that the current level of inconsistency is great. But it was also fun to see very strict application of track limits.
This is just simple quality assurance calibration. Anyone involved is part of regular calibration periods. In calibration, individuals (directors and stewards) are provided past scenarios and non-fictional scenarios. Using their documentation, they score and draw conclusions of how things are handled. They then come together, compare results, discuss the differences and correct or agree until everyone involved is re-calibrated. Typically, this sees consistency greatly improved so long as calibration is done frequently enough-normally see it every 3 or 6 months, but I guess in F1 it'd be 2 or 4 times per season.
Exactly my thoughts. If the teams can have a similar group of personnel follow the F1 circus around the world (mechanics, pit crew, etc.), I don’t see how that can’t be the same for stewards and race directors. It’s fine to have more than one race director to share the work, but they should be attached to their own team of stewards and there should be no more than 3 or 4 changes of stewards throughout the season. I think it would also be a good idea to have retired racing drivers act as advisors or even become stewards themselves, because they would recognise very quickly what’s a fair/legal move between opponents. We hear Martin Brundle commentating on it all the time. So yeah, to the best of my knowledge, that’s my simple solution that would hopefully improve things, which there needs to be before we get Abu Dhabi 2021 2.0.
Dude, at least one of the stewards (if not more) is usually a former driver, sometimes the 4 of them are.
It's pretty common in sports to have different people officiating at different events. It's also quite common for some of those officials to be known for having a slightly different interpretation of certain rules, which might disproportionately affect certain competitors.
It just means the more essential rules need to be written in a way that's not too open to interpretation.
What rules are open to interpretation?
You'd think with the rules beeing so specific with plenty of previous examples there wouldn't be much space for interpretation.
Track limits: if the drivers don't have the line-of-sight to gauge whether or not they are inside or outside of the limit, either the cars need sensors unambiguously indicating the limit (and giving the driver some indication of how close to the limit the car is) or the limit has to be appropriate for the driver's line-of-sight (meaning the white line must be MUCH wider...like a foot wide)...IMO.
Yeat most drivers stopped going off track after they got to the limit of their warning allowance. Funny how that works...
I suggest using sensors for track limit. All the cars are equal in width so they just bury sensors where it is considered the track limit. If any drivers go over that limit and trigger the sensor, the stewards and race director have a very objective way to judge. Thus minimizing reliance on "eye balling" in video replays.
😂. Thats exactly what yhey did in Austria. Didnt you notice matshals removing a wire from the kerbs before the race on Sunday? Those were the sensors, which had proven useless and were just adding noise to the data they have from other places including the cars themselves
There are different referees in every football match and so it has to work with different stewards at every race and 2 race directors as well.
Works only if every rule is crystal clear. They aren't. Like some refs give a red card and others only a yellow. Even with the help of VAR they get it wrong....
Surely it would not cost too much to buy 20 drones to track cars' overhead although it might be a bit sketchy on the first corner!
2:21 was smooooth
🥹
They need to have atleast 3 of the 6 stewards going on to the next race… so we have 6 stewards this week.. and 3 of those is then going on to next race with 3 new stewards, who then gets to go to the next next race as well… :) so there is always 3 stewards from the previous race, to ensure that the rules applied at that race continues for the next as well..
It's always an issue when someone needs to interpret the rules on the fly and where a quick decision is nessesary. Let's take football as an example. The rules are clear what a goal, what off side is, what is off and so on. With the help of technology it got better to help make the right decision, based on what happend. To be fair I'm not a big football watcher and only really watch the world cup and European cup but due to significant delay in the live broadcast and loud cheering neighbors, it robbed the whole fun, so I never really saw the technology in use. But the rules are always pretty clear and the only missjudgement that happens is if a tackle was too hard or not.
F1 needs clear rules what is okay and what not and when it's hard to see with an naked eye, they need technology to help. They have technology to determine if someone was speeding in the pit lane but not if someone was off the track?
And even then it's not as bad as NASCAR, not even close
That's very concerning
I don't watch other motor series so can't say how other series are handling this. But like you said in football, missjudgement happens during a tackle, same is with formula1. When cars are racing side by side, it's difficult to say who is right when one either backs out or goes off track because other person didn't give space. It's similar to tackle in football except in this case even the field//track is also changing from incident to incident. Even now people argue over whose fault it was in Silverstone 2021, so it's not as clear cut as in other sports. I do agree that a common consensus is needed among the stewards based on past incidents whether they would have penalised or not if the same thing is to happen today.
Talks about drivers pushing drivers off track and cutting corners….. shows picture of Verstrapon doing it, absolute legend
One race director who works more closely with the drivers and teams. And above all, consistency. I don't mind an annoying rule (like track limits) being policed strictly, but do it consistently.
F1 is one of the most technical sports in the world if not the most technical. Why do the directors etc need to fly around the world, they can have 2 to 3 ring masters who is in charge at the track with the marshalls to ensure everything is in place and running to rules. They can alternate and travel to different tracks to lighten the load. Then you have a race director, and 7 "jurors" who is at FIA HQ in the control room where they can view all the footage together with the race monitors that watches all the angles. The head TRO also at HQ then brings forward all the issues after it was viewed and transgressions confirmed and an informed decision can then be made. This will ensure transparency and consistency. They should also bring in the following rule - if you are the cause of running someone of the track and that competitor cannot continue you also then retire. I am sure the elbows out racing will be more mature and less aggressive.
Just a rough idea??
I was watching F1TV coverage of Austria and I saw Perez leave the track in Q2. Maybe I should be a steward.
nope... because you actually saw it... you're over qualified.
they should have multiple race directors working at the same time, independently from each other.
- One race director working with a team of stewards to police track limits (or simply install captors to get rid of manual policing)
-One race director and a team of stewards enforcing overtaking rules etc
-last but not least: a race director (with the marshalls on site) overseeing safety, such as yellow flags, vsc, safety cars and red flags.
What that would do better than their current system is:
-promote consistency weekend after weekend, as the same individual is taking the final decisions in a certain field.
-reduce the stress of each individual by splitting up the workload, enabling multiple decisions to be taken at the same time without having to give one priority over the other.
-increase the speed at which each decisions is taken, as that dedicated team and race director specialise and focus on only one field.
Tell me what you think.
I think in reality what you would need would be one race director (the one who oversees the start, yellow flags, safety cars etc) and two deputy race directors to oversee the other things (as there needs to be one person in overall charge).
However there may be a degree of overlap between some of the roles - for example, last year we had a race where Max gained a place illegally just before a red flag. Michael Masi (I think quite pragmatically) arranged for the place to be given up on the grid at the restart rather than have Max try to surrender the place in the first few corners.
Imma just call it what it is. The Formula British Series
2:20 clever editing haha
2:20 This. I hate this with a passion because this rule blatantly favors the car on the inside to the point where going around the outside is usually a stupid move.
I would much prefer it if they said "if two cars are next to each other to a point where crossing over to the other side of the track would cause a collision, both cars have to leave each other enough space at any given moment on the track without the need to extend track limits." This would shift the responsibilty back to both parties a little more equally.
Now if a driver said "tHe CaR oN tHe InSiDe Is BeInG pUlLeD tO tHe OuTsIdE tHoUgH", well though luck. You get the advantage of the shorter run through the corner, if that isn't enough then that's just too bad. Learn how to control your damn car and your impulse to go onto the throttle as early as possible. As soon as you're side by side, the track is not fully yours anymore. Deal with it.
I hate it fia so much but make cars safe some rules so stupid
It aways use to be the inside car no matter what is was their corner behind or in front when they was a long side each other especially if the inside car is a little more infront going into the corner meaning no matter what the outside car would have to give space and was always at fault because it has more track to use. Now it's made it even more of a problem. But running each other wide use to be OK as long the car in front was holding the racing line and the other car was not more than half way along side but diving down on a car in front and forcing it wide was not legal basically the car in front had all advantages including on overtaking we're it was the responsibility of the overtaking car to keep it clean not the car being overtaken. That's what it should be like now
The oft-quoted "All the time, you have to leave the space!" comes to mind.
@@Xariama that's not right though. You only have to leave space if the car is more than half car's length alongside until then it's the car infront who has the racing line and can force or close the door.
Simplify the contentious rules. Then we don't need a consistent team of stewards, because the rules are simple enough to follow.
If a car is alongside (at all) from the braking zone to the exit of the corner, they need space.
If all four tyres exit the white line at the edge of the track, you've broken track limits.
Worst day ever my hens died to a pine Martin but seeing you upload made my day thanks Matt
They should be able to see who is significantly ahead with a couple of simple sensors in all cars, right?
If you thought they were enough of a problem with F1 this season, go and watch the most recent F2 feature race in Austria. If all the F2 drivers were K Mag every door would've been shattered in the paddock
It's kinda of like, when you ask your mum for some sweets and she's says No, so you ask ya Dad.
That the situation with the FIA right now.
One way is to do a better job of writing the rules. The latest one about the flexibility of the skid plate is inexcusably bad rule writing. If what you agreed to and what you mean is that there should be no flexibility whatsoever, then you say that in the rules and you outline the measures you will use to determine that, and you might say you can introduce any new measure to confirm that there is no flexibility from stem to stern. There's a lot less room for interpretation.
But no matter what you do, there's going to be problems with respect to consistency. Every sport has these. But if the rules are not well written from the start, you will have even more problems. And that's what they have now.
This new rule about passing on the corners, inside and out, that's got disaster and inconsistency written all over it. How are they going to consistently tell if a car is marginally ahead whatever the bleep that means. It's impossible to not have some inconsistencies unless you have electronic devices mounted on the cars themselves. It would be better if they added a couple of pounds to the weight of a car and had that kind of monitoring. It won't make a wit of difference if they lose a tenth of a second around the track.
They should put a sensor on the front wing or front wheel and another one on the middle of car.
Put LEDS on the halo, and get a rules to state: IF after breaking pedal is off the led lights red, they need to give space, if they're green, they can run them off. Put the problem on the drivers to figure them out.
Can be perfected to HOW MUCH ALONGSIDE is enough to claim the space.
Boom. advertise.
1:52 I like that design
I think we have to accept a few things.
First, every system will have its pro's and con's. No matter what, we will have to deal with that. F1 is super competitive and teams are always looking to out think the reg, and drivers are always trying to out maneuver their opponents. That's what makes it random and exciting.
Second, it's probably impossible to implement a perfect system since so many factors are always in flux. Other sports have trouble with doping, ineffective officiating, and a whole host of other fairness issues. F1 involves a new set of drivers almost every year, new tire compounds, new regs, every changing protocols on every track, engineers, budget caps, espionage, occasional extreme weather, imperfect venues, geopolitics, deaths, etc. It's hard to keep all things equal and fair when so many things are constantly varying.
Third, sometimes the solution is worse than the problem. Every did want a new race direction hierarchy, but splitting the responsibility between more than one person has its own set of problems. We saw unprecedented events lead up to the conclusion of the 2021 season, and then some serious blunders and equivocations on the last race and other races leading up to that. It's a shame, but that is another thing that makes the sport so intriguing. You never know what's to come.
The decisions are arguably worse up to this point of the season. The only difference is we can’t remember who to blame.
It's clear the FIA needs dedicated race directors and stewards for the whole season. The steward problem is a historical/traditional thing. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Though I suspect a driver boycott is what it's going to take to get that fixed. With South Africa on the calendar for next year, that might be the opportunity. You know, tradition! :-)
Why not have 2 race directors at the same event working together a bit like the stuads but a lot smaller and the make the final decision or even 3?
They need 1 race director and a team of 4/5 stewards who do every race. Have 1 or 2 back ups incase of sickness on a race weekend but keep the consistency. Its a sport where 1 or 2 bad calls by a steward in 1 race could see a team loose out come the end of the season, that steward is then not accountable for this because they buggered off. 1 team, 1 set of rules, oh and let us have the live cockpit messages again, I dont like the delay.
You’ve mentioned it before, but the track limits debate is easily solved with technology. No idea why they can’t do this.
I very much agree with Matt. The idea of co- race directors should have been used. Not a rotating pair of race directors.
I don’t understand why stewards are changing. They decide over penalty’s and not the race director or am I wrong?
Stream the drivers meetings again pls !!
The more rules you have, the more chances you have to get it wrong. Silverstone was amazing but technically all drivers involved in that should've been penalized. Imagine Alonso who finished 5th, I think, getting 2nd place just because he sat back and watched the others give it all.
Only Checo, Charles and Max deserved penalties. Everyone else was fine. Your point still stands though.
2:30 You have to leave a space, ALL THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEAVE A SPACE!!!
The problem in making decisions is not the lack of means or rules, the system or the organization, it is always the person or team that is in charge of doing their only job: decide!
Either we have a few stewards that make usually similar decisions all the time which is either great or horrible like Abu Dhabi and Jhedda, where they also agreed start positions including Ocon, Hamilton and Verstappen. This obviously was not great.
To mitigate the risk of bad stewards all the time we swap the stewards for each race. Sounds great, but then decisions can be inconsistent from race to race.
Pick your poison. Personally, I prefer a mix of the two. Some stewards that are the same for routine and some new for each race, which happens at least sometimes. So why Abu Dhabi and Jeddha had odd decisions is the huge question mark
What about them changing/reinterpreting the pit lane exit rules at Monaco on the hop to make it harder to police and more dangerous ? That was pissing lunacy.