How is a Falcon to align? I don't have one. How bad is aligning using shims? I know I can guesstimate camber and toe in on my Mopars but can't even start to do castor. I'm using tape measures, straight edges, bubble beams. Not proper tools.
It takes time to get it right. Because I would know that as well. Due to that fact when I was younger back in the middle 1980s when I had a 1966 Ford Falcon Futura with a 200 ci with 3 speed manul racing transmission with a bigger 2 bbl that I can use for my engine. My Dad and I had to do the same thing as well as your doing. It did took awhile. We also had to go change the camber. You guys rock for Father and Daughter team.
Great to watch your video while I’m traveling through Greece! I’ve learned that there is more to aligning a Falcon/Comet/Mustang then what you can do at home or in a parking lot. After ten years of searching for an alignment guru, I found one through other local car owners. The mechanic was in his 70’s but had all the correct equipment to get a full front suspension right. My car has never driven and handled this well. You might also want to consider installing 1963 front stabilizer bars which are adjustable (64 and later are not) - this allows the suspension to be totally aligned and is worth it as the shock towers in these cars move over time.
What does the stabilizer do? Brace the lower control arm? I don't have a Falcon/Mustang. I think those braces that go across the shock towers in the engine compartment are good to have.
@@auteurfiddler8706 the braces on the top of the shock towers hold those in the correct position while the front stabilizer bar/ caster arm aligns the lower control arms - the 1964 and newer castor arms are not adjustable but the 1963 are adjustable and you wouldn’t believe how many of the cars the lower control arms are out of alignment
alignment on these cars is so annoying lol. im having the same issue on my falcon aswell. changed my shocks and bam. bad alignment lol. going to check all suspension components for slack and and worn out bushings, gonna need a spring compressor to remove the spring safely. then going to take it to an alignment shop to get it dialed in. remember old school tires and newer radial tires are different specs on alignment. good luck and cant wait to see how you take care of the issue
You guys are awesome. Don't stop making mistakes. Experimenting and taking risk. Maybe a little tip would be to to count the threads on the outer tie rod before adjustment so you can see how much you move that way you don't have to remeasure so much when fine tuning it in.
after you update the suspension components bring it somewhere that does alignments camber will cause tire wear like that too and it might have been the camera angle but it looked like the camber was off too far in at the top . im sure some of the local car guys you know will be able to help you find a place that actually knows how to do old car alignments . they are quite different from modern cars . if you go before you replace any parts they will check everything for you to let you know what needs to be replaced . bad parts wont align and replacing good parts can be expensive if your on a budget .
Hey Ellie , 65 66 mustang upper and lower control arms idler arm pitman arm and inner outer tie rods. Not sure if Carl is power steering or manual steering. The 👍🏽💯🔥 great experience to have with your father.
Just take it and have it professionally aligned. It seems like your camber is off as well. Do it right, or you will be buying lots of expensive whitewalls!
When the strut rod bushings are worn(loose) that allows the lower control arm to shift fore & aft, alignment lasts until first time the the suspension flexes or brakes are used. Loose inner bushing in lower control arm adds to issue as does upper(yes upper) and some degree lower ball joints. In a nutshell anything that hasn't been replaced recently is probably bad. I had same tire wear issue on my '69 Fairlane I bought & drove 700 mi home. Although it had a documented 43K mi everything in front suspension was bad, rubber bushings rotted & collapsed. In some ways components in similar cond as my other '69 that had over 100K mi on it's first total front end rebuild(at time owned 44 years). Word to the wise, use Moog or Dorman std replacement parts, the "hot Rod" polyurethane are not very compliant and results in harshness in suspension. Used that stuff in a '72 Comet, pulled it all back out. Yeah you are gonna hear how much better handling will be, but IMHO for a daily driver/cruiser the factory stuff is far better. The I-net tale that radial tires require a different alignment is bunk. The '69s did have radial tires as optional but only one set of alignment specs. There are "performance" alignment specs but are beyond scope of this writing. Look up autorestomod's Fairlane alignment for the details. All these vehicles have same basic suspension and react similarly to mods.
Great tips and stories! Thanks. Since this trip, we've actually completely replaced the front suspension, and we'll have that video coming in the near future. We did hear that same thing about poly bushings, especially with the strut rods. We heard it would be best to stick with rubber for stock strut rods, and not to go with poly unless we were upgrading to stronger, adjustable strut rods.
@@ElliesGarage Ahhh gotcha. Have alignment shop set caster close to the high end of spec(+1¼*). Adds stability at speed. Any higher and steering tends to become stiff at low speed(parking lots).
Matt you're being awful cavalier with the way you keep tossing that "we" around. 🤣 In all fairness, it's an easy mistake to make. And made for a great educational moment. Now I'm lookin forward to the suspension video. I have a feeling it's gonna be good
😂😂 Matt jumping in here--oh yes, quite cavalier! We have since replaced the suspension, and while everything came out well in the end, the process was a nightmare. The gremlins came out of the woodwork, and everything that could go wrong seemed to go wrong. Pretty sure it will be the first episode where I'll need to bleep out my own expletives.
When was the last time you freshen up your suspension by meaning changing your upper and lower ball joints, control arms bushings and tie rods with MOOG
With my '87 W-150 when I set tow, I drive it in a figure 8 to check my settings. I know your falcon isn't a full size 4wd but since driving stress can be worse than pushing back and forth it always lets me know it's rite or wrong.
You made it home... Field repairs are often needed with older stuff. I've been there so many times when we were young. We could not afford much for vehicles, the repairs were a regular thing. Did you make dad go to his room and think about what he did? LOL
"You need SHIIIIMMS...." expect to start hearing this all the time. And when you get shims, expect people to start telling you "They fall out!" Actually, I see almost as many shims lying in the street when I walk to the store as I see wheel weights. (You need wheel weights! They fall off!" ) 😁 The "shims" , that is, taking them out and putting them in to change castor and camber, is a thing with cars with crude suspensions that didn't provide adjusting cams on the upper control arms to change alignment.
Here in Australia, Ford sold the same basic Falcons for 30 plus years with little change in overall mechanical design. That means all suspension parts are still available easily. To get a Falcon properly set up for day to day driving it pays to replace EVERYTHING and readjust the steering box. Later you can upgrade to what ever the budget allows .Also,the steering wheel has to be locked in place so the steering box is in it's center position when adjusting the tie rods.
The correct way to do a tape measure toe adjustment is to place a caulk mark on each front tire (where you hold the tape measure). Take your measurement and then roll the vehicle until the caulk marks are rotated 180 degrees. By doing this you compensate for any lateral run-out in the wheel tire assembly. My experience in aligning Falcons with radial tires is 1/16" toe-in. When I do a tape measure toe adjustment the closest, I can get is about 1/4". Before replacing anything, a couple of quick checks you can do are: 1. have someone hold the Pitman arm and wiggle the steering wheel, if there is excessive play in the steering box the steering wheel will move before the Pitman arm. 2. Check the tie-rod ends by holding on to each tie rod end while the steering wheel is turned. Also watch the center-link connections, Pitman arm connections and the idler arm for excess movement. 3. Jack a tire off the ground and place a pry bar underneath the tire, lift up and down and watch the ball joints for excess movement, severe wear can be felt or heard. 4. Check the strut rod bushing for deterioration. A good automotive technician diagnoses the problem and does not trough parts at it hoping to get lucky. With that said, you have been very methodical in all you have done, my guess is that you just need a good alignment. The Falcon platform (includes Comet and Mustangs) are a bear to align. Most shops today are used to turning adjustment bolts under the hood. As you have experienced the shims used on the upper control arms are not easy to get to while the wheel sits on the ground. Finding a shop that is willing to do an alignment on our beloved Falcons is problematic, finding a shop that can get it right is very difficult. Keep sending us videos, I look forward to each new one posted.
In that one shot you had of the tire looking head on, it looks like your camber is a little negative which will also eat the inner tread. Toe will give you a feathering pattern of wear!
It looked that way to me, too! I think her wear was nearly all camber. But if her alignment moves, there must be worn parts. Though I'm not sure which ones.
Great tips! Thanks so much. We have another video coming out later that will show us replacing the suspension/steering parts and as soon as that was done we took it straight to the alignment shop. 😀
What an adventure! I envy you! 👍 Your video footage is a great way to document your thought process and methods 9fmaccomplishment. Please get a professional alignment shop to advise you on what to do. Show them your footage, and they can tell you what...if anything...may be wonky with your front suspension. Looking forward to watching you replace your worn-out suspension! Aloha!
The Mopar Bible (Chrysler tech produced racing manuals) says that you can use factory specs to align a car for the dragstrip. But, if you want, you can simply align so that the tires are straight down the road and straight up and down. So, zero camber, zero toe in. It think that is a safe choice. For a car that drag races, the alignment should be done with the front lifted a bit to simulate the front lifting on acceleration. But that doesn't apply here. The Mustang community has a lot of info about improving the handling of these cars. One thing is something called a Shelby modification or something like that. It involves raising , I think, the upper control arms an inch by having the holes redrilled. This affects the camber of the wheels on turns and , I think , braces it up better. It does not change the static alignment which is still straight ahead and a slight negative camber if you want to lose some tire life in exchange for better handling. It doesn't change the ride height, either. It simply makes early Mustangs have the same good dynamic characteristics that later ones did.
I'm very surprised that the toe could shift out. I'm not aware of any warn parts that can cause this. But I only have done home alignments on Mopars, which have a different system. I don't know if you have upper and lower control arm bushings. I'm going to say two things, I've said before. Maybe three. 1. I think that kind of tire wear is from camber. I never heard the word "camber" in the video. 2. If the wear was "Feathered" I'd suspect toe in 3 . I never put good tires on the front of a car I aligned myself. Or one with an alignment from a shop I don't trust. Which is every shop. If you go to get your alignment done, be prepared for them to say you need all new everything. It may be true, but it may be a lie. Or it may be partly true. Once, at favorite used tire store, the kid working there, (son of the Mom and Pop owners) thought my Mopar (that is , Chrysler product) needed new coil springs to be aligned. He was shocked (!) that his book didn't list coil springs for my car. "It has coil springs for every car but yours!" Mopars stopped using coil spring 25 years before my car was built. And that was at my FAVORITE tire store. Imagine how it would be at a BAD shop.
Mopars of the late 50's until the the front wheel drive era use torsion bars in the front instead of coil springs. In the back they use leaf springs similar to a Falcon in appearance. The torsion bar Chrysler cars always had the best handling for any car of it's size, especially in the bigger bodied cars.
Two questions and I'm not being critical. Why didn't you take Carl to an alignment shop? When rolling it back and forth, why not start the engine and drive it back and forth? Thanks! ~Pat
Good question. We noticed this at about 6:00pm on a Saturday, and we called about every alignment shop in town. Of course, no one was open. We did the alignment the next morning, on Sunday, just before we drove 400 miles back home. As for the rolling, it was pretty easy to roll...and it made for good video. Ha. Thanks for the questions!
You have a camber problem camber causes inner or putter wearing toe causes wat is called feathering acros the tires but like the video at least your are doin it and learning 👍
So that would be Ellie two and Dad zero. I'm recalling a little bit of confusion about trunk weather strip placement. But don't worry about it it's how we learn stuff. Sometime a little bit of humble pie is good. Please don't ask me how many times I've had some.
I've turned wrenches for a long time ...
I've had over 20 Falcons
Take it to an alignment shop !
Good luck !
How is a Falcon to align? I don't have one. How bad is aligning using shims?
I know I can guesstimate camber and toe in on my Mopars but can't even start to do castor. I'm using tape measures, straight edges, bubble beams. Not proper tools.
Thanks so much! Once we got home, we replaced the front suspension/steering linkages and then took it to a shop for the alignment. 😀
It takes time to get it right. Because I would know that as well. Due to that fact when I was younger back in the middle 1980s when I had a 1966 Ford Falcon Futura with a 200 ci with 3 speed manul racing transmission with a bigger 2 bbl that I can use for my engine. My Dad and I had to do the same thing as well as your doing. It did took awhile. We also had to go change the camber. You guys rock for Father and Daughter team.
Just be thankful you have a car you can work on and make adjustments.
I look forward to your episodes and really enjoy the two of you.
And your end link bushings and sway bar bushings with MOOG too
Great troubleshooting as a team! You made it home safely and that's what counts 🙂
Yes!! Thanks!
Great to watch your video while I’m traveling through Greece! I’ve learned that there is more to aligning a Falcon/Comet/Mustang then what you can do at home or in a parking lot. After ten years of searching for an alignment guru, I found one through other local car owners. The mechanic was in his 70’s but had all the correct equipment to get a full front suspension right. My car has never driven and handled this well. You might also want to consider installing 1963 front stabilizer bars which are adjustable (64 and later are not) - this allows the suspension to be totally aligned and is worth it as the shock towers in these cars move over time.
What does the stabilizer do? Brace the lower control arm? I don't have a Falcon/Mustang.
I think those braces that go across the shock towers in the engine compartment are good to have.
@@auteurfiddler8706 the braces on the top of the shock towers hold those in the correct position while the front stabilizer bar/ caster arm aligns the lower control arms - the 1964 and newer castor arms are not adjustable but the 1963 are adjustable and you wouldn’t believe how many of the cars the lower control arms are out of alignment
alignment on these cars is so annoying lol. im having the same issue on my falcon aswell. changed my shocks and bam. bad alignment lol. going to check all suspension components for slack and and worn out bushings, gonna need a spring compressor to remove the spring safely. then going to take it to an alignment shop to get it dialed in. remember old school tires and newer radial tires are different specs on alignment. good luck and cant wait to see how you take care of the issue
Dads are never wrong. You were right, he was "less right."
That's great! 😂😂😂
Doing good.
Keep up the great work and awesome videos 👍
Thank you so much 😁
I just discovered your channel and I already love it lol
Yay! Thank you!
@@ElliesGarage You're welcome, love the car! its a beautiful car :)
Looking forward to seeing your video of CARL at Ford Fest. I saw Carl there on Sleeperdude channel.
Thanks so much! We'll have that video coming out soon!
You guys are awesome. Don't stop making mistakes. Experimenting and taking risk. Maybe a little tip would be to to count the threads on the outer tie rod before adjustment so you can see how much you move that way you don't have to remeasure so much when fine tuning it in.
Thank you, and that's a GREAT tip!!
after you update the suspension components bring it somewhere that does alignments camber will cause tire wear like that too and it might have been the camera angle but it looked like the camber was off too far in at the top . im sure some of the local car guys you know will be able to help you find a place that actually knows how to do old car alignments . they are quite different from modern cars . if you go before you replace any parts they will check everything for you to let you know what needs to be replaced . bad parts wont align and replacing good parts can be expensive if your on a budget .
It wasn't just you; I noticed the camber angle too.
Hey Ellie , 65 66 mustang upper and lower control arms idler arm pitman arm and inner outer tie rods. Not sure if Carl is power steering or manual steering. The 👍🏽💯🔥 great experience to have with your father.
Just take it and have it professionally aligned. It seems like your camber is off as well. Do it right, or you will be buying lots of expensive whitewalls!
Good tips. Once we got home we replaced the front suspension/steering and then got it aligned. We'll have that video coming in the near future.
When the strut rod bushings are worn(loose) that allows the lower control arm to shift fore & aft, alignment lasts until first time the the suspension flexes or brakes are used. Loose inner bushing in lower control arm adds to issue as does upper(yes upper) and some degree lower ball joints. In a nutshell anything that hasn't been replaced recently is probably bad.
I had same tire wear issue on my '69 Fairlane I bought & drove 700 mi home. Although it had a documented 43K mi everything in front suspension was bad, rubber bushings rotted & collapsed. In some ways components in similar cond as my other '69 that had over 100K mi on it's first total front end rebuild(at time owned 44 years).
Word to the wise, use Moog or Dorman std replacement parts, the "hot Rod" polyurethane are not very compliant and results in harshness in suspension. Used that stuff in a '72 Comet, pulled it all back out. Yeah you are gonna hear how much better handling will be, but IMHO for a daily driver/cruiser the factory stuff is far better.
The I-net tale that radial tires require a different alignment is bunk. The '69s did have radial tires as optional but only one set of alignment specs. There are "performance" alignment specs but are beyond scope of this writing. Look up autorestomod's Fairlane alignment for the details. All these vehicles have same basic suspension and react similarly to mods.
Great tips and stories! Thanks.
Since this trip, we've actually completely replaced the front suspension, and we'll have that video coming in the near future. We did hear that same thing about poly bushings, especially with the strut rods. We heard it would be best to stick with rubber for stock strut rods, and not to go with poly unless we were upgrading to stronger, adjustable strut rods.
@@ElliesGarage Ahhh gotcha. Have alignment shop set caster close to the high end of spec(+1¼*). Adds stability at speed. Any higher and steering tends to become stiff at low speed(parking lots).
Matt you're being awful cavalier with the way you keep tossing that "we" around. 🤣
In all fairness, it's an easy mistake to make. And made for a great educational moment. Now I'm lookin forward to the suspension video. I have a feeling it's gonna be good
😂😂 Matt jumping in here--oh yes, quite cavalier!
We have since replaced the suspension, and while everything came out well in the end, the process was a nightmare. The gremlins came out of the woodwork, and everything that could go wrong seemed to go wrong. Pretty sure it will be the first episode where I'll need to bleep out my own expletives.
Uhi a Road Trip with a hard repair this is very hard ❤️👍❤️
When was the last time you freshen up your suspension by meaning changing your upper and lower ball joints, control arms bushings and tie rods with MOOG
With my '87 W-150 when I set tow, I drive it in a figure 8 to check my settings. I know your falcon isn't a full size 4wd but since driving stress can be worse than pushing back and forth it always lets me know it's rite or wrong.
You made it home... Field repairs are often needed with older stuff. I've been there so many times when we were young. We could not afford much for vehicles, the repairs were a regular thing. Did you make dad go to his room and think about what he did? LOL
"You need SHIIIIMMS...." expect to start hearing this all the time. And when you get shims, expect people to start telling you "They fall out!" Actually, I see almost as many shims lying in the street when I walk to the store as I see wheel weights. (You need wheel weights! They fall off!" ) 😁 The "shims" , that is, taking them out and putting them in to change castor and camber, is a thing with cars with crude suspensions that didn't provide adjusting cams on the upper control arms to change alignment.
Here in Australia, Ford sold the same basic Falcons for 30 plus years with little change in overall mechanical design. That means all suspension parts are still available easily. To get a Falcon properly set up for day to day driving it pays to replace EVERYTHING and readjust the steering box. Later you can upgrade to what ever the budget allows .Also,the steering wheel has to be locked in place so the steering box is in it's center position when adjusting the tie rods.
Great tips, and g'day down in Australia!!!
The correct way to do a tape measure toe adjustment is to place a caulk mark on each front tire (where you hold the tape measure). Take your measurement and then roll the vehicle until the caulk marks are rotated 180 degrees. By doing this you compensate for any lateral run-out in the wheel tire assembly. My experience in aligning Falcons with radial tires is 1/16" toe-in. When I do a tape measure toe adjustment the closest, I can get is about 1/4".
Before replacing anything, a couple of quick checks you can do are: 1. have someone hold the Pitman arm and wiggle the steering wheel, if there is excessive play in the steering box the steering wheel will move before the Pitman arm. 2. Check the tie-rod ends by holding on to each tie rod end while the steering wheel is turned. Also watch the center-link connections, Pitman arm connections and the idler arm for excess movement. 3. Jack a tire off the ground and place a pry bar underneath the tire, lift up and down and watch the ball joints for excess movement, severe wear can be felt or heard. 4. Check the strut rod bushing for deterioration. A good automotive technician diagnoses the problem and does not trough parts at it hoping to get lucky. With that said, you have been very methodical in all you have done, my guess is that you just need a good alignment.
The Falcon platform (includes Comet and Mustangs) are a bear to align. Most shops today are used to turning adjustment bolts under the hood. As you have experienced the shims used on the upper control arms are not easy to get to while the wheel sits on the ground. Finding a shop that is willing to do an alignment on our beloved Falcons is problematic, finding a shop that can get it right is very difficult.
Keep sending us videos, I look forward to each new one posted.
Great tips! Thanks!!
In that one shot you had of the tire looking head on, it looks like your camber is a little negative which will also eat the inner tread. Toe will give you a feathering pattern of wear!
It looked that way to me, too! I think her wear was nearly all camber. But if her alignment moves, there must be worn parts. Though I'm not sure which ones.
Great tips! Thanks so much. We have another video coming out later that will show us replacing the suspension/steering parts and as soon as that was done we took it straight to the alignment shop. 😀
What an adventure! I envy you! 👍 Your video footage is a great way to document your thought process and methods 9fmaccomplishment. Please get a professional alignment shop to advise you on what to do. Show them your footage, and they can tell you what...if anything...may be wonky with your front suspension. Looking forward to watching you replace your worn-out suspension! Aloha!
Thanks so much! Not to worry. We actually replaced the entire suspension after this trip and then had it aligned at a local shop. 😀
I've done a few tape measure alignments. if you have a good assistant they workout quite well.
The Mopar Bible (Chrysler tech produced racing manuals) says that you can use factory specs to align a car for the dragstrip. But, if you want, you can simply align so that the tires are straight down the road and straight up and down. So, zero camber, zero toe in. It think that is a safe choice. For a car that drag races, the alignment should be done with the front lifted a bit to simulate the front lifting on acceleration. But that doesn't apply here.
The Mustang community has a lot of info about improving the handling of these cars. One thing is something called a Shelby modification or something like that. It involves raising , I think, the upper control arms an inch by having the holes redrilled. This affects the camber of the wheels on turns and , I think , braces it up better. It does not change the static alignment which is still straight ahead and a slight negative camber if you want to lose some tire life in exchange for better handling. It doesn't change the ride height, either. It simply makes early Mustangs have the same
good dynamic characteristics that later ones did.
Ok no more bumping cups.
I'm very surprised that the toe could shift out. I'm not aware of any warn parts that can cause this. But I only have done home alignments on Mopars, which have a different system. I don't know if you have upper and lower control arm bushings.
I'm going to say two things, I've said before. Maybe three.
1. I think that kind of tire wear is from camber. I never heard the word "camber" in the video.
2. If the wear was "Feathered" I'd suspect toe in
3 . I never put good tires on the front of a car I aligned myself. Or one with an alignment from a shop I don't trust.
Which is every shop.
If you go to get your alignment done, be prepared for them to say you need all new everything. It may be true, but it may be a lie. Or it may be partly true.
Once, at favorite used tire store, the kid working there, (son of the Mom and Pop owners) thought my Mopar (that is , Chrysler product) needed new coil springs to be aligned. He was shocked (!) that his book didn't list coil springs for my car. "It has coil springs for every car but yours!"
Mopars stopped using coil spring 25 years before my car was built.
And that was at my FAVORITE tire store. Imagine how it would be at a BAD shop.
Mopars of the late 50's until the the front wheel drive era use torsion bars in the front instead of coil springs. In the back they use leaf springs similar to a Falcon in appearance. The torsion bar Chrysler cars always had the best handling for any car of it's size, especially in the bigger bodied cars.
Two questions and I'm not being critical. Why didn't you take Carl to an alignment shop? When rolling it back and forth, why not start the engine and drive it back and forth? Thanks! ~Pat
Good question. We noticed this at about 6:00pm on a Saturday, and we called about every alignment shop in town. Of course, no one was open. We did the alignment the next morning, on Sunday, just before we drove 400 miles back home. As for the rolling, it was pretty easy to roll...and it made for good video. Ha.
Thanks for the questions!
Can olso be cambered on the minus side ooorr the tyre pressure to low
You have a camber problem camber causes inner or putter wearing toe causes wat is called feathering acros the tires but like the video at least your are doin it and learning 👍
Well I wasn’t screaming at my phone, but I was saying “ no dad, she’s right”. Keep learning. 👊🏻
So that would be Ellie two and Dad zero. I'm recalling a little bit of confusion about trunk weather strip placement. But don't worry about it it's how we learn stuff. Sometime a little bit of humble pie is good. Please don't ask me how many times I've had some.
😂😂😂
Dad's a doofus.🤦♀ HOWEVER, I've been there and done that !
😂😂😂