JP teams not streaming their runs makes the WFR feel completely meaningless. No hype, no VoD, and then the one screenshot that they post clearly indicates that they've been cheating anyway. xffing
Imagine the feeling of GRIND , they were so happy and everything of being world first, then 5 minute later they saw the red dot incident, it must be a rollercoaster
@@chilosopher4856 yeah what i meant is they were so happy that they didn't realize 1 of their member was doing 0 iq thing and exposed them . their hapiness only lasts for 5 minutes
It’s a legal reason why SQUARE doesn’t allow third party tools for their games. It’s considered a violation of the Japanese Unfair Competition Prevention Act. If SQUARE doesn’t tell players they don’t allows mods then they could get their peepee slapped. That’s a quick TLDR.
Other JP games have Easy Anti-Cheat or other software. Not that I'm advocating for that in final cause that would basically make it unplayable on Steam Deck. But I don't see a legal reason behind SE decision to not add such a tool in the future.
@@recaplrg3552 Well you are also missing those Anti-Cheats cause a delay on Ping and so your ping and positioning reported between screen and server would also be wrong, making it even harder to play Ultimate, since they need damn near perfect
@@danimyte3021 Just to emphasise this point, let's say 50k unsubbed due to all third party being banned. That's a revenue loss of nearly 8M annually assuming every single player was only on the entry sub (12.99) and never bought anything Mogstation/Merch related. All of these are very conservative estimations just to show why SE will never crack down on third party. It's simply not worth it financially.
I'm over here cramming my fat Thighlander ass into the tiniest crevice between orange hurtboxes for funsies. I don't need an add-on. I can SENSE my hitbox, like a Touhou player, as I levitate my ass out into the air while doing the summer jumping tower. I am ascended.
The problem imo isn’t cheaters and mods, it’s offline teams. The wf race is a community event and if you wanna participate then stream it ffs. No one is excited for these events anymore because some random team no one cares about wins and there is no storyline It’s like watching wrestling, the champion is fighting the underdog, except just as the match was heating up some rando from the crowd runs in with a chair.
So true, record it. Though, it doesn't matter whether you record it or not, everyone are using third party tools. It's so easy to set it up so it doesn't show in recording
Okay but GRIND weren't actually in the event, and the casters even acknowledged that fact. They just happened to clear before other teams, so Frosty added them to the Mogtalk leaderboard. They weren't eligible for any of the prizes etc.
This is actually the dumbest take lmao. It's a video game people play for fun. No one has an obligation to stream anything for you or the community. This isn't a competition, a sport, it is a video game. If players that are talented enough to be world first players don't want to stream they have every right not to.
You don’t understand how important information is in xiv world first racing. Anything streamed is public knowledge. That is why you will never ever see a stream team win world first, not because of plugins. You are not entitled to a stream. This is the way it has ALWAYS been. If you don’t like it simply do not follow the worlds first race.
problem is, you can make several overlay in several streaming softwares to to avoid your modified screen get streamed and taken for pictures, jp is just to dumb to set that up, you can also make normal ingame screenshots that only take your normal ff screen, not plugin and act involved as this is not on the main game stream, its layer added on top of it. just saying, you can basicaly cheat your way to WF if you set everything up the mright way without anyone noticing, aside maybe ff analyze(like your steps are way to precise to be only 1-2 microyalme different from other tries) but basicaly you could cheat without noticing, for eu and NA is even a plugin available names streamer mode, that hides if active all plugins from being streamed on your screen by setting them as third layer for you, and for streams its like nothing is different. i dont care about using plugins on content, even tho it makes it easier. but you shouldnt promote yourself as world first and being proud of it while using certain 3rd party stuff. just keep it silend and you are fine.
It's as simple as clearing, logging out and logging back into the normal client to not have any watermarks on to take screenshots. This would solve nothing.
I think you peeps didnt understand. The idea is just so people stop being stupid when using mods leaving them on the screen. cause it would be obvious that they forgot to remove the watermark and wouldnt post stuff online with the mods out in the open.
I don't even care too much about the 3rd party shit, I'm just bummed world first didn't happen on stream, would've been so hype to see it as it happened.
its prolly to prevent others from using their mechanics. Which I can totally understand. And another point might be ppl don't want to be on stream, which I can also understand.
@@recaplrg3552Yeah but then the issue arises of who is and isn't cheating. Participating in an event like this comes with the package of having to be on stream to avoid potential foul play. Plus I'll be honest, those who don't stream it likely are cheating and know they'll get sniped for it easily
@@chelsthegameruiner8669 I think those who stream are cheating too, and are just hiding it better. I don't trust any of them to not cheat. Granted I don't know enough about who participated or not but did Grind officially wanted to participate or did they just post a clear screenshot after they cleared ? I don't know if they reported the clear to Echo or whoever was organising it, trying to participate. After all this is a community driven event, people can just say "I don't care who organises it we do whatever we want" You wouldn't be able to do that at an official World First Race.
I don't know why, but the fact that it was pixel perfect of all things (which literally didn't even get updated till yesterday!) is just so freaking funny
There's plenty of forks of it, you don't have to use the official repo. Hell a lot of people don't use official repos for smaller plugins that are easy to manually update, for this exact reason.
And even more than that, there is an option for the dot to only show while in combat. They literally turned it on with default settings and called it a day! Lmao.
It was probably not JUST pixel perfect. That's just the only one that showed up in an obvious way. Not gonna see AM, Alexander or Splatoon when there's nothing left on the screen.
It doesn't matter if players THINK they need certain mods. They don't. Just clear with no mods. It doesn't matter if "everyone does it". Its like that episode of Jimmy Neutron where everyone cheated in the Parent-child picnic games. If everyone cheated, it doesn't matter if I take a year to clear. I'm the real world first. Don't like it, just believe SE when they say you can clear without mods. (act or otherwise).
It kindda matters because if you want a legit clear team...good luck. Party Finder is out, even for savages (hell, even some Extremes, lol). Most guilds are out. You can try to build a static of like minded people, but that will take forever. So for all practical purpose, people who want to play the game legitimately are SOL, unless they have a lot of close friends who play the game and happen to share their views. That's rare.
I'm so bored of this asinine take that every 3rd party plugin is equally bad because they're all prohibited by ToS. It's like saying that murder and jaywalking are equally bad because they're both illegal. Even if those two crimes carried the same legal sentence, I'd certainly hope that people would still believe one is morally quite a bit worse than the other. If you acknowledge that, then you have to acknowledge that using performance enhancing plugins that solve mechanics and do your rotation for you are worse than using a damage meter or chat bubbles. If you don't then you're not a serious person.
If you have something interacting with the game giving you information in a way that was not intended by the developers, it's considered cheating. You cannot disregard that the presence of one plugin, whether it be something small like chat bubbles or big like splatoon, implies that you have installed either ACT or Dalamud. Both of those are programs carry a library of plugins, ranging from small UI mods, to having a script auto-mark and give precise callouts faster than any human ever could. Either of those can be switched on within seconds and can be hidden on stream as well. That fact alone makes it equally as bad. That's just reality, we're all dirty cheaters, just accept it.
For sure, but even in the real world, people have very different opinions on which crimes are worse than others. Jaywalking vs killing? Yeah, that's an obvious one. It's like if in FF14 you compared a mod that helps colorblind people to Splatoon. But in the real world, if you ask someone about stealing, then you get into the weed. "Was it an individual, or was it at Walmart? Was it thousands of dollars or just a few bucks?" People will have widely differing opinions as to where you draw the line. Same in the game... Some people draw the line at ACT. Some at Alexander. Some say NoClippy is ok but Alex isn't. Some think AM are fine but only on some fights and some mechanics. Thats why in the real world the laws exist, because we need to agree to disagree on some stuff (and even that can be rough sometimes). Without written rules for what mods are ok or not, then its totally free for all. And well, there's the slippery slope. If SE said "Ok, ACT is fine but not XYZ", then you know people will come in, use XYZ anyway, and say "Well, they are ok with XYZ they just didn't want to say it to get people mad. Since they're fine with ACT they're fine with XYZ too, read between the line!".
i wish u would dev a game tht would eventually get infested with plogons. and a good guy u are u would make a list of good and bad ones but there is a twist there would be a lot of "smart" ppl tht would adjust their glasses and be like: actually here u see there is this difference so its not same as what u described in not to use article so u see i am not breaking anything bla bla.
Nice strawman. You totally missed the point of the argument. The argument is not there's a difference between using certain plugins. The argument is that SE has said no plugins whatsoever which means that's the rules. Saying oh well some plugins are allowed is spitting is SE's face. SE is the god of FF14 and god says things are this way. You don't get to change that. If the World First event organizer's allow certain plugins because they aren't as "cheaty" that's grounds for SE completely shutting down the entire event. In sports you get disqualified if you break any of the rules even though some rules aren't as serious as the others.
@@kayreal1273 "Nice strawman" you say, before delivering the exact argument you claim is a strawman - once again missing the point I was making. I am quite aware that all plugins are against the terms of service.
This is not a complicated issue at all. If you turn off your third party tools and can still clear then you're not cheating. If you can't clear without ACT booted, then you're using it as a crutch and thus cheating. If you need ACT to clear content then you're just bad.
Drug tests are used in sports all the time, and are bypassed all the time too, people dope regardless. That doesn't mean we should stop the drug tests just because so many are doing it. If you're caught, you're caught. If you did it without getting caught, then congrats. If the community accepts ACT for world first, then congrats. If you accept red dot / zoomhack in the clear, then congrats to them too! If you believe these mods are such a small convenience that they shouldn't matter, then why do they use them? Why use something that could spark such a dumb shitstorm if it wouldn't make a difference in the clear? Could you just NOT use it then? You can't just turn off the mods just for the world race, and then turn them back on for your daily non-event play? I wish people would just own up to what they are doing instead of pussyfooting around the facts. If they posted that clear without the red dot, we would have ALL congratulated them without a second thought, and that's fine too. But if you're caught, you're caught. Doesn't "invalidate" the clear, just makes a point that they cleared first, with mods.
Yoshis said no third party, but he's also said it's a grey area. Also, these fights are designed WITH NO plug-ins involved. In my eyes, it's what you use act for. Just a dos meter and to upload to fflogs? I think that's fine. Use triggers, cactbot and more? Yeah that's cheating. I'm pretty sure yoshi would agree, he just can't say. That's why he's said it's a grey area. Don't get caught and your good.
@@fward true, but i kind of think that is intensional by YoshiP (I'm sure he would agree xD). it's easy to just say as policy: "all modding is banned" or "all modding is allowed without limit". but as those two are extremes I suspect YoshiP doesn't agree with either option. I think we can safely say he is somewhere in between. but where? well but the moment you draw a line between this is fine and this isn't. it gets really tricky. not only that but then you have to moderate it as company which is a whole issue on its own. not only that but no matter where you draw that line it will conflict with your player base. so they have chosen the "it's banned but I happen to be very distracted right now" option. nobody knows exactly what his position is. and I think for him that is probably best
dps meter and fflogs considered as grey area because yoshiP once explained it if someone happen to record all the damage, took note of everything, calculate and sum them up, it is pretty much the same with dps meter that being said, it is still considered cheating there is no such thing as not cheating while you already stepped into the area just because you are not drowned does not mean you are not wet, people already getting themselves wet the moment they touched those plugins fine or not it is up to each person
This convo always comes back at every world race or competitive content coming out, it's inevitable at this point. The XIV cheaters are the best at outing themselves, though LOL It's always important to have this convo though, while an official stance on plugins is provided and full stream teams have proven the devs' claim that "these fights are designed to be cleared without any external tool", the community has a different opinion and will always argue that parsing isn't cheating, it's dumb to even have that as an example, my ping is bad so if i use a plugin to help that so i can play the game at the same level as those that live near the servers, etc. etc. The issue as usual is that SE doesn't a probably will never really enforce this. You *can* use mods, plugins, whatever you want and not get caught. The funniest thing is when people stream themselves or, like in this case, just post a screenshot showing the use of any of these tools and then are surprised why they get "canceled", banned or whatever. No one wants this to force the devs to use anticheat or whatever doubtly useful method to try and prevent cheating, resulting in a worse experience for ALL players... We already lost marker functionality and who knows what else due to plugins, but gained a lot of QoL at the same time, so idk...
they wont force anticheat, they will just stop making ultimates. Thats the easiest solution for them that uses less resources designing these fights and do other things
honostly i think the only reason people talk about it that hard in this case is because its a JP team and their whole behavior with addons and shit like that, if this was an NA/EU team im pretty sure we'd be all like "oh ok, so anyway" its their own fault tho for creating such a reputation for themselves
Who even gives a damn anymore. These raids have nothing to do with actual skill. It's just people with too much time practicing a dance dance revolution song over and over again.
back in SHB and EW, I was paying my Sub + VPN ($25 total) just to play competitive enough for raids and ultis. It was horrible, BUT, cousin Alex came in clutch for my DT experience. Saved me money
Hmm, doesn't alex just help with the rotation and weaves?(I've never used alex...) I use VPN to help a bit with the ping and AoE dodges. Does Alex help with these too?
@@Yokai_Yuri it simulates having really low ping so you can weave properly and your abilities don't ghost. It just puts you on equal footing with people who live close to the server
As a console player I’d gladly accept the blame for Square having such a zero tolerance policy on third party mods. 😂 I’ve done my fair share of Ultimates but never participated in world first races. Do I really care about mods, tools, etc? Not really as I know so many PC players who use them. Some are world first participants who genuinely get mad when someone else beats them to clears but gets caught using mods. A bit hypocritical but it’s funny to me. It would be hilarious if Yoshi P uses a nuclear option by not making anymore Ultimates because of disappointment. Which he has stated before.
God that’d suck. I love doing ultimates. Having that taken away because of idiots would be disheartening since ultimates allows the devs to really go all out with fight design.
Taking away ultimates because of that would be fucking stupid. They're the content with the most staying power, that's like removing the glamour dresser because people use outfit mods lmao
I said it once I will say it again... World first streamed or not does not matter unless everyone competing is in-person and monitored. Now if you wanna just enjoy this is a non serious manner just pick some group who cleared earliest who you agree with and go with that.
in person and monitored isnt feasible, this isnt some esports event. Just have to accept this is the best we will have and that people will do anything to win. I don't think that really takes anything away from it. We can always just accept that GRIND cleared first but they got caught cheating and that kindred is the first stream to win and that should be good enough cause it has to be lol
ACT can do a lot of stuff, but nobody talks about it because the overwhelming majority of use is just as a damage meter, and the community is generally okay with this. It might be a good idea to start differentiating between "cheat" and "against TOS". The community runs the world-first race, not squeenix. The community decides what is cheating, squeenix just has TOS. They're not the same. I agree with Serenaya's point that even though cheats can be obscured and hidden from stream, requiring stream really is a step in the right direction. The problem is not completely solvable, but there are things that can be done to make it harder to cheat. It won't catch all the cheats, but it will catch some, and many others it will discourage from using cheats; not every player will have the know-how to hide everything.
I think the difference is do the tool you use reduce the amount of thinking and input that is originally required during the raid game play if you only use act and logs to keep dps in check, that does not make the raid easier for you while playing
Why do we keep defending this kind of shit tho? Thats the question. Why are you okay with a world first race thats full of cheaters? We should strive for a world first without cheaters.
Cuz they either use it too or say dumb stuff like "this ultimate literally can't be done without 3rd party tools" leading to a toxic cesspool of PF filled with fake phoney bologna "Have it/Don't have it" parties that put people off of even trying the content.
And how can you be 100% certain stream world first wasn't using 3rd party tools? Just because OBS didn't capture the overlay doesn't mean they are clean.
@@manbearpigsereal Required streaming with rules banning any sort of 3rd party applications or mods? This isn't an issue in many games or at least not as prevalent.
The problem is people who play on console (like me) cannot use plugins even if we wanted to. So, “everyone cheats” is really only applicable to PC players. I am curious, have any console players actually competed in the world race and successfully completed an ultimate during that time?
people have common sense and it is common sense says that a third party program that doesn't affect gameplay is "okay" . I'm so tired of this "huurr duur discord is cheating because yoshiP said so" while a program that tells you which mechanic is coming or where to step is considered cheating for a reason. Nobody cares what SE thinks since they can't control it anyways
its only squares fault, their policies against 3rd party are so ambiguous that even using a blackboard and chalk could be considered cheating by their standard.... they even said themselves once and it was something like this: "you see the battle log, you see the numbers there you can grab a calculator and calculate your dps or put the numbers in microsoft excel doing so could be considered cheating even though common sense says that ridiculous"
@@Irisfantasies Even SE doesn't care about ACT for logging. If they did, every team in the world race would get a punishment. YoshiP always watches the races, and he is well aware of that. Yeah it is SE's fault for not whitelisting third party tools. Honestyly back in TOP I even doubt that the noname team who used that UAV mod would get punished if wasn't for the community backlash. Look at TEA for example, Sfia had too much game in his mod and nobody talks about that, they prefer to talk about stupid shit (huurr TPS private server duur)
Just like last time the best part from all of this is the memes created. Cant wait to see YoshiP add a red dot mechanic in future content just like they did with Savage zoom hack.
I used to run in a static group that was using ACT. Personally, I think it's just a distraction. My metric of did we do enough dps is simply this. Is the boss dead, then we did enough. Are we dead and the boss is laughing at us, we need more dps.
@9:10 This is a REALLY good example. Especially for powerlifting more than Bodybuilding. All powerlifters are using some form of Steroids or TRT when competing. While yes, certain things will make it EASIER to do a raid, or in this metaphor, lift easier. It still comes down to player skill, practice and determination. That doesn't change. Steroids or Overlays or MOST THINGS are NOT going to make you "automatically the best" unless they have an addon that literally has an AI that reads everything and plays for them.
I play ps4/ps5, I’ve done every tier prior to DT, and UWU & TOP. The ultimates took up to 5 weeks, but I’ve cleared all floors by week 2 in the statics I’ve been in. I know 6/8 were Pc and used ACT. This entire thing is blown out of proportion.
"Because we all have accepted ACT and we've all accepted Alexander, well now we're in this weird area where we accept these, but it's unspoken because no one wants to say it except for me right? No one wants to say that people fuckin cheat." Don't break your arm patting yourself too hard on the back now. You're missing the obvious. People don't want to say people cheat because proof of using 3rd party tools will get you banned by SE. It's that simple. Look at WoW - EVERYONE uses 3rd party tools and no one is hiding it. Why? Because you don't get banned for it. It's not some community-wide social phenomenon that no one wants to say people cheat and Xeems is some kind of whistleblower; it's because they know people get banned for it and so they don't talk about it. That's it. If you didn't get banned for 3rd party tools in FFXIV, they'd be streaming with all of it on full display on screen.
So why is there literal proof of each world race team using 3rd party tools on the FFLog website? The combat data and all those other numbers don’t just walk away from the game and get on the site themselves. There is absolutely a gray area.
My question here is this. If the red dot on the screen is to show you your pixel perfect center or whatever. Then why not just put a red sticker on your monitor? Like why do you need a 3rd party tool to do this?
I understand we ''all cheat'' but IMO this is like submitting a store bought pie that wins a bake sale competition when most used a recipe from the internet and a hand full used their own recipe. One is clearly MORE wrong than the second and all the thirds are technically the only legit entries.
Just imagine it went like that guy who in WoW Hardcore deliberately wiped his Raid in Naxxramas. Putting in all the work just to eff it up for everyone else without warning. Probably not what happened but man would it make it even more devastating
Im a casual player semi-following WF race for the first time. I understand how addons and cheats work for the most part, but where does the red dot actually come from? What addon is it and why is it showing there? Just for my own curiosity, I don't doubt that they cheated lol
its a plugin that you can get through dalamud called "Pixel Perfect" basically puts a dot right at the center of your character so you know where your hitbox is (its not your whole character's body, only a dot right in between the legs quite literally at x-0 y-0 coordinates) Lets you be a lot bolder on greed as you'll know where your hitbox is at all times letting you be closer to attacks and stuff
Your hit box in FF14 is very, very tiny. It shifts a bit if you zoom in/out or if you move the camera or for other reasons. If you know exactly where the hitbox is at any moment, you can very precisely squeeze in for optimal positioning. Its a bigger deal than one would think at first glance. If you ever took an AOE to the face while being sure you were positioned correctly...the add-on would have prevented it.
at least on my viewpoint the main difference is whether it affects your gameplay or not. for example the main use, to my knowledge, of ACT is to see parse. but the ones that alter your game either via pulling the camera way back to see more of the screen others couldn't, they few programs that just straight up call out mechanics before the tell shows up in game, etc. just.. don't seem right to me.
"It doesn't matter if you cheat by a mile or an inch" Utterly untrue, community can come to a collective set of agreed rules to make an even playing field for competition and then limit their events and any potential rewards based on those rules
I haven't played XIV this expansion, I got burned out during the 2nd savage tier of Endwalker and haven't been back since but even when I was playing, ACT was a lot less frowned upon. It's an mmorpg, with competitive elements to it. As much as this wasn't the original design intention for Square, it's human nature. People are competitive, they want to know their damage numbers in an mmo, they want to compare themselves with other players on fflogs, etc. Problem is, ACT itself is like the gateway drug of plugins lmao. It opens up the door to everythingggg else, like Cactbot or trigger plugins, etc. Dalamud plugins was the other one from what I remember. Looks like a hitbox mod I'm guessing? The only way this ends is if either A) Yoshi-P and team finally just say fuck it and say they don't care about addons anymore at all or B) they find a way to implement some kind of detection system that bans people for using ANY outside tool, without being too invasive to people's machines. That was always their roadblock in the past, maybe something will change in the future. FFXIV has been in this weird place for years now where it's a grey area problem. YoshiP doesn't want people using mods, but they have no way of knowing you're using them. It's an honor system. YoshiP is like the dad who says "I'm not mad at you, I'm just disappointed." lmao. Well, maybe people should start getting fucking grounded lol.
It's a lose-lose either way they go about it. By Japanese law, they can't approve of any 3rd party programs that give an unfair competitive advantage over people not using them. If they go with anti-cheat software (even at the kernel level) it's still a game of whack-a-mole with mod devs figuring out exploits that don't get you flagged by it. It will always be an honor system. If you're in a world-first scenario, assume all of the competition is using every advantage they possibly can, approved or not. Only way to win is not to care about the competition and just be happy with clearing for yourself.
@@drayman101 You missed the whole point why they dont use Anti-Cheat.. its revenue. Imagine all mods gets you banned.. What about the thousands of people that just use mare to live their wet furry dream in Limsa? They just unsub and SE instantly lose about 10M Dollars in a year.
You don’t need act just get the flogs companion then you don’t need the outside parser that allowed for other cheating capabilities. Also… There is also a setting to have your stream in overlay show when you’re record & when you’re not but for that one recording is green & not is red. However there is an alignment setting that will display your center of the screen at all times & when you’re adjusting the location of the center of your screen it’s also visible you can turn it off & on
Cleared 2 Ultimates so far; No ACT, no logs, no plugins, no nothing, I didn't even know what ACT was before purity tests. Cheating actively damages your developmental skills; Get good, it's a skill issue. Why would you want to cheat? I would rather hold an Ultimate weapon knowing that I earned it and not that I had a plugin tell me what to do; Because that doesn't feel good, that feels unworthy and unearned.
Even though everyone involved uses illegal 3rd party programs, it does matter, at least ethically, what kind of/how much of an advantage you have over those who do not cheat. Someone using a damage parse is completely different in terms of severity and gained advantage than someone who uses fully automatized callouts, auto-markers and hitzone displays.
I mean, there is no way members of literally every other top 5 team would be using cheating mods. It would be absurd to think that. Because if that were true, they would've been caught like GRIND. (This comment is sponsored by Xenosys Vex)
"Every single team cheats". One of the most IMPORTANT parts of cheating is NOT GETTING CAUGHT. Idiots that get caught deserve to get stripped. This is coming from a super casual FF player with absolutely no skin in the game, lol. Just seems like common sense to me.
I guess the only legit way to do a clear would be everyone on console, but I'm sure there's workaround for the console and there might be third party tools for it.
I'm completely out of the loop on Mods and Add-Ons, I'm just a mostly-casual player these days. Am I the only person NOT using some cheat mechanic on FFXIV? Hell, maybe I need to get one so I can breeze through some content I've not bothered with.
The problem with the red dot is it means they could be using other 3rd party mods as well that aren't captured in a screenshot. Edit: Xeno sounds so cooked about this. There is common sense on what mods people have a problem with. Being intellectually dishonest about that just to sound like you have a point is weird ngl. Using ACT in itself isn't cheating in the eye of the community. Driving 2 mph over the speed limit is illegal but you wont find any cops pulling you over for it.
@@lichmourne00 I simply think it's ironic that a program that also holds those "other 3rd party mods" is deemed ok just because its more common. How do you know that they're only uploading logs and not using cactbot, triggernometry, and all the other things that's in ACT? You don't. All of those can be hidden on stream in a separate layer so the viewers don't see and hear it. It's similar to how you don't know if GRIND only used the red dot and not anything else in Dalamud, as you said in your first statement. There's no difference. The reason why ACT is more accepted by the community is because it's use is so widespread across the game it's unavoidable, and now the community doesn't want to call themselves cheaters. Pot calling the kettle black.
JP teams not streaming their runs makes the WFR feel completely meaningless.
No hype, no VoD, and then the one screenshot that they post clearly indicates that they've been cheating anyway.
xffing
Imagine the feeling of GRIND , they were so happy and everything of being world first, then 5 minute later they saw the red dot incident, it must be a rollercoaster
They're so used to the dot they didn't even notice it shouldn't be there lol
Bro they were all in on it. That's why none of them streamed.. or logged. Their response to the red dot player is just generic PR response.
@@chilosopher4856 yeah what i meant is they were so happy that they didn't realize 1 of their member was doing 0 iq thing and exposed them . their hapiness only lasts for 5 minutes
If you for a second believe they all didn't know, you're so naive.
@@VoxAcies no shit ofcourse they know lol
forget world racing Ultimate. world racing drama speedrun video is the real game
now we wait for the disappointed yoshi-p lodestone post...
There's gonna be no post, I bet
LOL!
and thus balance is restored
Im glad and not glad at the same if yoshi p stopped making ultimate content after cheating drama for umpteen time
@@ducktruck40 I think yoshida had already said that if players keep cheating on ultimates then he no longer going to do them.
It’s a legal reason why SQUARE doesn’t allow third party tools for their games. It’s considered a violation of the Japanese Unfair Competition Prevention Act. If SQUARE doesn’t tell players they don’t allows mods then they could get their peepee slapped. That’s a quick TLDR.
Other JP games have Easy Anti-Cheat or other software. Not that I'm advocating for that in final cause that would basically make it unplayable on Steam Deck. But I don't see a legal reason behind SE decision to not add such a tool in the future.
@@recaplrg3552 It's not a legal reason. It's a financial one. They would literally loose subs from cracking down on mods.
Your tldr is based on a lie buddy.
@@recaplrg3552 Well you are also missing those Anti-Cheats cause a delay on Ping and so your ping and positioning reported between screen and server would also be wrong, making it even harder to play Ultimate, since they need damn near perfect
@@danimyte3021 Just to emphasise this point, let's say 50k unsubbed due to all third party being banned. That's a revenue loss of nearly 8M annually assuming every single player was only on the entry sub (12.99) and never bought anything Mogstation/Merch related. All of these are very conservative estimations just to show why SE will never crack down on third party. It's simply not worth it financially.
that red dot is just xeno front top view
Arcane was right lmao. The only good answer is to walk away from World Race entirely
Incoming 7.2 Patch Notes
-Added an optional setting to display the precise position of your characters hitbox.
We wish.
M8s will have a red dot on your screen
as a Black MAge player that has like 10-30 ping MAX most times, I can do that without a damn addon lol
@@FirewynnTV PREACH BROTHER TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I'm over here cramming my fat Thighlander ass into the tiniest crevice between orange hurtboxes for funsies. I don't need an add-on.
I can SENSE my hitbox, like a Touhou player, as I levitate my ass out into the air while doing the summer jumping tower.
I am ascended.
I just don't care about nonstreamed clears. The fun of WF is watching prog, and the way that they handle learning and strategizing.
The problem imo isn’t cheaters and mods, it’s offline teams. The wf race is a community event and if you wanna participate then stream it ffs.
No one is excited for these events anymore because some random team no one cares about wins and there is no storyline
It’s like watching wrestling, the champion is fighting the underdog, except just as the match was heating up some rando from the crowd runs in with a chair.
You know what, as someone who thinks plugins are totally fine, this makes complete sense to me. I get it.
So true, record it. Though, it doesn't matter whether you record it or not, everyone are using third party tools. It's so easy to set it up so it doesn't show in recording
Okay but GRIND weren't actually in the event, and the casters even acknowledged that fact. They just happened to clear before other teams, so Frosty added them to the Mogtalk leaderboard. They weren't eligible for any of the prizes etc.
This is actually the dumbest take lmao. It's a video game people play for fun. No one has an obligation to stream anything for you or the community. This isn't a competition, a sport, it is a video game. If players that are talented enough to be world first players don't want to stream they have every right not to.
You don’t understand how important information is in xiv world first racing. Anything streamed is public knowledge. That is why you will never ever see a stream team win world first, not because of plugins.
You are not entitled to a stream. This is the way it has ALWAYS been. If you don’t like it simply do not follow the worlds first race.
Imaginary technique: Red Dot
They should have just glued a piece of tape on their monitor :D
So “Vanilla World First” is still up for grabs on all Ultimates is what I’m hearing!
Yeah, I'm going to get that one, sometimes before servers shut down.
Think all third party tools should put watermarks. Just so people that use them don't be stupid enough to post the screenshot.
problem is, you can make several overlay in several streaming softwares to to avoid your modified screen get streamed and taken for pictures, jp is just to dumb to set that up, you can also make normal ingame screenshots that only take your normal ff screen, not plugin and act involved as this is not on the main game stream, its layer added on top of it. just saying, you can basicaly cheat your way to WF if you set everything up the mright way without anyone noticing, aside maybe ff analyze(like your steps are way to precise to be only 1-2 microyalme different from other tries) but basicaly you could cheat without noticing, for eu and NA is even a plugin available names streamer mode, that hides if active all plugins from being streamed on your screen by setting them as third layer for you, and for streams its like nothing is different. i dont care about using plugins on content, even tho it makes it easier. but you shouldnt promote yourself as world first and being proud of it while using certain 3rd party stuff. just keep it silend and you are fine.
Also all plugins are open-source, therefore it's easy for someone to remove watermark code and used that instead of an official one.
@@MrZockio dont even need that, making it capture a specific window wont show overlays. lol
It's as simple as clearing, logging out and logging back into the normal client to not have any watermarks on to take screenshots. This would solve nothing.
I think you peeps didnt understand. The idea is just so people stop being stupid when using mods leaving them on the screen. cause it would be obvious that they forgot to remove the watermark and wouldnt post stuff online with the mods out in the open.
Its a drama because we saw what we werent supposed to see, even though we know it was there
It’s the Lance Armstrong effect
I don't even care too much about the 3rd party shit, I'm just bummed world first didn't happen on stream, would've been so hype to see it as it happened.
its prolly to prevent others from using their mechanics. Which I can totally understand. And another point might be ppl don't want to be on stream, which I can also understand.
@@recaplrg3552Yeah but then the issue arises of who is and isn't cheating. Participating in an event like this comes with the package of having to be on stream to avoid potential foul play.
Plus I'll be honest, those who don't stream it likely are cheating and know they'll get sniped for it easily
@@recaplrg3552I think you have too much faith in the honour of people who enter a W1st comp
@@chelsthegameruiner8669 I think those who stream are cheating too, and are just hiding it better. I don't trust any of them to not cheat.
Granted I don't know enough about who participated or not but did Grind officially wanted to participate or did they just post a clear screenshot after they cleared ?
I don't know if they reported the clear to Echo or whoever was organising it, trying to participate.
After all this is a community driven event, people can just say "I don't care who organises it we do whatever we want" You wouldn't be able to do that at an official World First Race.
@@shelflord1686 On the contrary, I do think the people streaming cheat as well just know how to hide it on stream.
I don't know why, but the fact that it was pixel perfect of all things (which literally didn't even get updated till yesterday!) is just so freaking funny
There's plenty of forks of it, you don't have to use the official repo. Hell a lot of people don't use official repos for smaller plugins that are easy to manually update, for this exact reason.
And even more than that, there is an option for the dot to only show while in combat. They literally turned it on with default settings and called it a day! Lmao.
It was probably not JUST pixel perfect. That's just the only one that showed up in an obvious way. Not gonna see AM, Alexander or Splatoon when there's nothing left on the screen.
@@fward this is true, if you see one who knows how many are hidden
It doesn't matter if players THINK they need certain mods. They don't. Just clear with no mods. It doesn't matter if "everyone does it".
Its like that episode of Jimmy Neutron where everyone cheated in the Parent-child picnic games. If everyone cheated, it doesn't matter if I take a year to clear. I'm the real world first. Don't like it, just believe SE when they say you can clear without mods. (act or otherwise).
It kindda matters because if you want a legit clear team...good luck. Party Finder is out, even for savages (hell, even some Extremes, lol). Most guilds are out. You can try to build a static of like minded people, but that will take forever. So for all practical purpose, people who want to play the game legitimately are SOL, unless they have a lot of close friends who play the game and happen to share their views. That's rare.
@@fwardthe idea of someone proclaiming world's first "legit" from party finder 1 after the raid came out, is funny asf
@@fwardshare thier views? Ur sound hella wierd. Like minded people? U sound like u want a cult or ur just unlikable cause this isn’t a problem
@@fwardyou telling me this massively acclaimed MMORPG isn't really all that great of a game?
just be colorblind like me and it's suddenly simply another few pixels of a cloud in the background
PP is very configurable, with sizes, shadows, outer/inner ring (ofc with configurable size). Colorblind or not, you can make it work superbly well.
I'm so bored of this asinine take that every 3rd party plugin is equally bad because they're all prohibited by ToS. It's like saying that murder and jaywalking are equally bad because they're both illegal. Even if those two crimes carried the same legal sentence, I'd certainly hope that people would still believe one is morally quite a bit worse than the other. If you acknowledge that, then you have to acknowledge that using performance enhancing plugins that solve mechanics and do your rotation for you are worse than using a damage meter or chat bubbles. If you don't then you're not a serious person.
If you have something interacting with the game giving you information in a way that was not intended by the developers, it's considered cheating. You cannot disregard that the presence of one plugin, whether it be something small like chat bubbles or big like splatoon, implies that you have installed either ACT or Dalamud. Both of those are programs carry a library of plugins, ranging from small UI mods, to having a script auto-mark and give precise callouts faster than any human ever could. Either of those can be switched on within seconds and can be hidden on stream as well. That fact alone makes it equally as bad. That's just reality, we're all dirty cheaters, just accept it.
For sure, but even in the real world, people have very different opinions on which crimes are worse than others. Jaywalking vs killing? Yeah, that's an obvious one. It's like if in FF14 you compared a mod that helps colorblind people to Splatoon.
But in the real world, if you ask someone about stealing, then you get into the weed. "Was it an individual, or was it at Walmart? Was it thousands of dollars or just a few bucks?" People will have widely differing opinions as to where you draw the line.
Same in the game... Some people draw the line at ACT. Some at Alexander. Some say NoClippy is ok but Alex isn't. Some think AM are fine but only on some fights and some mechanics.
Thats why in the real world the laws exist, because we need to agree to disagree on some stuff (and even that can be rough sometimes). Without written rules for what mods are ok or not, then its totally free for all.
And well, there's the slippery slope. If SE said "Ok, ACT is fine but not XYZ", then you know people will come in, use XYZ anyway, and say "Well, they are ok with XYZ they just didn't want to say it to get people mad. Since they're fine with ACT they're fine with XYZ too, read between the line!".
i wish u would dev a game tht would eventually get infested with plogons. and a good guy u are u would make a list of good and bad ones but there is a twist there would be a lot of "smart" ppl tht would adjust their glasses and be like: actually here u see there is this difference so its not same as what u described in not to use article so u see i am not breaking anything bla bla.
Nice strawman. You totally missed the point of the argument. The argument is not there's a difference between using certain plugins. The argument is that SE has said no plugins whatsoever which means that's the rules. Saying oh well some plugins are allowed is spitting is SE's face. SE is the god of FF14 and god says things are this way. You don't get to change that. If the World First event organizer's allow certain plugins because they aren't as "cheaty" that's grounds for SE completely shutting down the entire event. In sports you get disqualified if you break any of the rules even though some rules aren't as serious as the others.
@@kayreal1273 "Nice strawman" you say, before delivering the exact argument you claim is a strawman - once again missing the point I was making. I am quite aware that all plugins are against the terms of service.
This is not a complicated issue at all. If you turn off your third party tools and can still clear then you're not cheating. If you can't clear without ACT booted, then you're using it as a crutch and thus cheating. If you need ACT to clear content then you're just bad.
can you explain to me how ACT as it crutch
Drug tests are used in sports all the time, and are bypassed all the time too, people dope regardless. That doesn't mean we should stop the drug tests just because so many are doing it.
If you're caught, you're caught. If you did it without getting caught, then congrats.
If the community accepts ACT for world first, then congrats.
If you accept red dot / zoomhack in the clear, then congrats to them too!
If you believe these mods are such a small convenience that they shouldn't matter, then why do they use them?
Why use something that could spark such a dumb shitstorm if it wouldn't make a difference in the clear? Could you just NOT use it then?
You can't just turn off the mods just for the world race, and then turn them back on for your daily non-event play?
I wish people would just own up to what they are doing instead of pussyfooting around the facts. If they posted that clear without the red dot, we would have ALL congratulated them without a second thought, and that's fine too. But if you're caught, you're caught. Doesn't "invalidate" the clear, just makes a point that they cleared first, with mods.
Yoshis said no third party, but he's also said it's a grey area.
Also, these fights are designed WITH NO plug-ins involved. In my eyes, it's what you use act for. Just a dos meter and to upload to fflogs? I think that's fine. Use triggers, cactbot and more? Yeah that's cheating. I'm pretty sure yoshi would agree, he just can't say. That's why he's said it's a grey area. Don't get caught and your good.
Problem here is that the "I think XYZ, and I'm sure YoshiP would agree" is used by everyone and their "XYZ" is different.
@@fward true, but i kind of think that is intensional by YoshiP (I'm sure he would agree xD). it's easy to just say as policy: "all modding is banned" or "all modding is allowed without limit". but as those two are extremes I suspect YoshiP doesn't agree with either option. I think we can safely say he is somewhere in between. but where? well but the moment you draw a line between this is fine and this isn't. it gets really tricky. not only that but then you have to moderate it as company which is a whole issue on its own. not only that but no matter where you draw that line it will conflict with your player base. so they have chosen the "it's banned but I happen to be very distracted right now" option. nobody knows exactly what his position is. and I think for him that is probably best
dps meter and fflogs considered as grey area because yoshiP once explained it
if someone happen to record all the damage, took note of everything, calculate and sum them up, it is pretty much the same with dps meter
that being said, it is still considered cheating
there is no such thing as not cheating while you already stepped into the area
just because you are not drowned does not mean you are not wet, people already getting themselves wet the moment they touched those plugins
fine or not it is up to each person
The issue is "don't get caught" I'm not paying $15 a month just to get banned by playing ff14 in vr
This convo always comes back at every world race or competitive content coming out, it's inevitable at this point. The XIV cheaters are the best at outing themselves, though LOL
It's always important to have this convo though, while an official stance on plugins is provided and full stream teams have proven the devs' claim that "these fights are designed to be cleared without any external tool", the community has a different opinion and will always argue that parsing isn't cheating, it's dumb to even have that as an example, my ping is bad so if i use a plugin to help that so i can play the game at the same level as those that live near the servers, etc. etc.
The issue as usual is that SE doesn't a probably will never really enforce this. You *can* use mods, plugins, whatever you want and not get caught. The funniest thing is when people stream themselves or, like in this case, just post a screenshot showing the use of any of these tools and then are surprised why they get "canceled", banned or whatever.
No one wants this to force the devs to use anticheat or whatever doubtly useful method to try and prevent cheating, resulting in a worse experience for ALL players... We already lost marker functionality and who knows what else due to plugins, but gained a lot of QoL at the same time, so idk...
they wont force anticheat, they will just stop making ultimates. Thats the easiest solution for them that uses less resources designing these fights and do other things
honostly i think the only reason people talk about it that hard in this case is because its a JP team and their whole behavior with addons and shit like that, if this was an NA/EU team im pretty sure we'd be all like "oh ok, so anyway" its their own fault tho for creating such a reputation for themselves
Damm right.
@@pedromoreira6218 wdym? Cheating during TOP was from a western team and they got called out too
@@masterman1502 The point is the NA/EU people don't go crusading against cheats. JP has a hate boner with cheaters while being THE CHEATERS.
@@PewPewSol The hell they don't lmfao ; NA people will rat on other NA people for mods / cheating faster than you can blink.
@@masterman1502what are you talking about…? The Top controversy was with JP team UNNAMED
Ffxiv community is just dying for any little grain of any drama 😅
$15 a month for drama baybeeeee
Everyone uses plugins and all PF’s say “have it” 😂
They don't care about cheating. They care about getting caught.
I never thought they may have an humiliation fetish
Who even gives a damn anymore. These raids have nothing to do with actual skill. It's just people with too much time practicing a dance dance revolution song over and over again.
I knew it was a matter of time. 🤣🤣🤣
back in SHB and EW, I was paying my Sub + VPN ($25 total) just to play competitive enough for raids and ultis.
It was horrible, BUT, cousin Alex came in clutch for my DT experience. Saved me money
Hmm, doesn't alex just help with the rotation and weaves?(I've never used alex...)
I use VPN to help a bit with the ping and AoE dodges. Does Alex help with these too?
How so that it helps with rotations? Is it like ab automatic bot that olayes for you and all you need to do is nove around? 😂
@@rafaelmendonca1272 I'm a boomer and I don't know tech enough. I just use cousin for OGCDs o7
@@Yokai_Yuri I only needed help with ping and latency for OGCDS
@@Yokai_Yuri it simulates having really low ping so you can weave properly and your abilities don't ghost. It just puts you on equal footing with people who live close to the server
As a console player I’d gladly accept the blame for Square having such a zero tolerance policy on third party mods. 😂
I’ve done my fair share of Ultimates but never participated in world first races. Do I really care about mods, tools, etc? Not really as I know so many PC players who use them. Some are world first participants who genuinely get mad when someone else beats them to clears but gets caught using mods. A bit hypocritical but it’s funny to me. It would be hilarious if Yoshi P uses a nuclear option by not making anymore Ultimates because of disappointment. Which he has stated before.
God that’d suck. I love doing ultimates. Having that taken away because of idiots would be disheartening since ultimates allows the devs to really go all out with fight design.
Taking away ultimates because of that would be fucking stupid. They're the content with the most staying power, that's like removing the glamour dresser because people use outfit mods lmao
Lol he just wants to ruin the community at that point. He is tired of the story so far.
Ricky Bobby style. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'
Xeemo is hiding his hair via OBS. He forgot how to turn it off. xffing
I said it once I will say it again... World first streamed or not does not matter unless everyone competing is in-person and monitored. Now if you wanna just enjoy this is a non serious manner just pick some group who cleared earliest who you agree with and go with that.
in person and monitored isnt feasible, this isnt some esports event.
Just have to accept this is the best we will have and that people will do anything to win. I don't think that really takes anything away from it. We can always just accept that GRIND cleared first but they got caught cheating and that kindred is the first stream to win and that should be good enough cause it has to be lol
It also doesn't matter. As long as there is no price money to be earned from it or world first races being held officially from SE.
All these people using 3rd party tools and pretending they are better at the game than those who don't, and it's a lie because they cheat. 😂
I'd rather celebrate the Ultimate raid itself than the World's First clear since it's cheating anyway.
ACT can do a lot of stuff, but nobody talks about it because the overwhelming majority of use is just as a damage meter, and the community is generally okay with this. It might be a good idea to start differentiating between "cheat" and "against TOS". The community runs the world-first race, not squeenix. The community decides what is cheating, squeenix just has TOS. They're not the same. I agree with Serenaya's point that even though cheats can be obscured and hidden from stream, requiring stream really is a step in the right direction. The problem is not completely solvable, but there are things that can be done to make it harder to cheat. It won't catch all the cheats, but it will catch some, and many others it will discourage from using cheats; not every player will have the know-how to hide everything.
Cheaters make us regular plugin users look bad
They always gotta ruin it for everyone else just having fun with friends or through storyline but nooooooo
The "content is too easy!" the cheater said vehemently.
If pixel perfect made fru easy then there wouldn’t even be a race.
You still have to do the mechanics correctly for pixel perfect to even be useful.
The XIV level humor at the start topped with twitch humor was vomit inducing.
Leo legit had fun hiding that dot throughout the video, plus that funny intro. Thank you Leo!
people love to get upset about the world first using addons like they're not going to do the exact same thing in a few weeks lol
I think the difference is do the tool you use reduce the amount of thinking and input that is originally required during the raid game play
if you only use act and logs to keep dps in check, that does not make the raid easier for you while playing
Why do we keep defending this kind of shit tho? Thats the question. Why are you okay with a world first race thats full of cheaters? We should strive for a world first without cheaters.
Cuz they either use it too or say dumb stuff like "this ultimate literally can't be done without 3rd party tools" leading to a toxic cesspool of PF filled with fake phoney bologna "Have it/Don't have it" parties that put people off of even trying the content.
offer a solution as to how that can happen.
And how can you be 100% certain stream world first wasn't using 3rd party tools? Just because OBS didn't capture the overlay doesn't mean they are clean.
@@manbearpigsereal Required streaming with rules banning any sort of 3rd party applications or mods? This isn't an issue in many games or at least not as prevalent.
@Deminese2 streaming does not ensure no plugins
What plogons does the strummer use? 🤔
shoulda just put a red sticker on the computer screen
They make screens on Amazon to put over your monitor bro! Literally terrible at hiding.
The problem is people who play on console (like me) cannot use plugins even if we wanted to. So, “everyone cheats” is really only applicable to PC players. I am curious, have any console players actually competed in the world race and successfully completed an ultimate during that time?
people have common sense and it is common sense says that a third party program that doesn't affect gameplay is "okay" . I'm so tired of this "huurr duur discord is cheating because yoshiP said so" while a program that tells you which mechanic is coming or where to step is considered cheating for a reason. Nobody cares what SE thinks since they can't control it anyways
its only squares fault, their policies against 3rd party are so ambiguous that even using a blackboard and chalk could be considered cheating by their standard.... they even said themselves once and it was something like this:
"you see the battle log, you see the numbers there you can grab a calculator and calculate your dps or put the numbers in microsoft excel doing so could be considered cheating even though common sense says that ridiculous"
@@Irisfantasies Even SE doesn't care about ACT for logging. If they did, every team in the world race would get a punishment. YoshiP always watches the races, and he is well aware of that. Yeah it is SE's fault for not whitelisting third party tools. Honestyly back in TOP I even doubt that the noname team who used that UAV mod would get punished if wasn't for the community backlash. Look at TEA for example, Sfia had too much game in his mod and nobody talks about that, they prefer to talk about stupid shit (huurr TPS private server duur)
@@Irisfantasieshow is it ambiguous, if it’s not glam related it’s not cheating. How is knowing where to move not cheating?
Just like last time the best part from all of this is the memes created. Cant wait to see YoshiP add a red dot mechanic in future content just like they did with Savage zoom hack.
I was wondering why red dots were showing up in the BLU Discord.
Nah, we know everyone cheats. But if you’re stupid enough to get caught, then you don’t deserve your title.
Not me over here so removed from the modding community that I thought the red dot was just part of the background scenery and not some 3rd party tool.
ACT is so common now that when I say I'm not using it people ask if I'm on console. That's how big this "problem" is.
at first: who clears the ultimate first! nowdays: which run wasn't cheated xD
I used to run in a static group that was using ACT. Personally, I think it's just a distraction. My metric of did we do enough dps is simply this. Is the boss dead, then we did enough. Are we dead and the boss is laughing at us, we need more dps.
We've gone beyond no stream, no clear.
Now it's gonna have to be no console, no clear.
@9:10 This is a REALLY good example. Especially for powerlifting more than Bodybuilding.
All powerlifters are using some form of Steroids or TRT when competing.
While yes, certain things will make it EASIER to do a raid, or in this metaphor, lift easier. It still comes down to player skill, practice and determination. That doesn't change. Steroids or Overlays or MOST THINGS are NOT going to make you "automatically the best" unless they have an addon that literally has an AI that reads everything and plays for them.
The memes were hilarious
I play ps4/ps5, I’ve done every tier prior to DT, and UWU & TOP. The ultimates took up to 5 weeks, but I’ve cleared all floors by week 2 in the statics I’ve been in.
I know 6/8 were Pc and used ACT. This entire thing is blown out of proportion.
I wonder what plugins Xeno uses himself since hiding it seems to be so easy. Splatoon probably
W editing for that opening. Kudos editor
"Because we all have accepted ACT and we've all accepted Alexander, well now we're in this weird area where we accept these, but it's unspoken because no one wants to say it except for me right? No one wants to say that people fuckin cheat."
Don't break your arm patting yourself too hard on the back now. You're missing the obvious. People don't want to say people cheat because proof of using 3rd party tools will get you banned by SE. It's that simple.
Look at WoW - EVERYONE uses 3rd party tools and no one is hiding it. Why? Because you don't get banned for it. It's not some community-wide social phenomenon that no one wants to say people cheat and Xeems is some kind of whistleblower; it's because they know people get banned for it and so they don't talk about it. That's it.
If you didn't get banned for 3rd party tools in FFXIV, they'd be streaming with all of it on full display on screen.
So why is there literal proof of each world race team using 3rd party tools on the FFLog website? The combat data and all those other numbers don’t just walk away from the game and get on the site themselves. There is absolutely a gray area.
My question here is this. If the red dot on the screen is to show you your pixel perfect center or whatever. Then why not just put a red sticker on your monitor? Like why do you need a 3rd party tool to do this?
I understand we ''all cheat'' but IMO this is like submitting a store bought pie that wins a bake sale competition when most used a recipe from the internet and a hand full used their own recipe. One is clearly MORE wrong than the second and all the thirds are technically the only legit entries.
You can't go against the community and then ask for accolades from it.
i can't believe Dalamud returned at this time of year... at this time of day in this part of Norvrandt... localized entirely within this raid?
Just imagine it went like that guy who in WoW Hardcore deliberately wiped his Raid in Naxxramas. Putting in all the work just to eff it up for everyone else without warning. Probably not what happened but man would it make it even more devastating
Im a casual player semi-following WF race for the first time. I understand how addons and cheats work for the most part, but where does the red dot actually come from? What addon is it and why is it showing there? Just for my own curiosity, I don't doubt that they cheated lol
its a simple plugin that shows the exact point where your hitbox is
its a plugin that you can get through dalamud called "Pixel Perfect" basically puts a dot right at the center of your character so you know where your hitbox is (its not your whole character's body, only a dot right in between the legs quite literally at x-0 y-0 coordinates)
Lets you be a lot bolder on greed as you'll know where your hitbox is at all times letting you be closer to attacks and stuff
Your hit box in FF14 is very, very tiny. It shifts a bit if you zoom in/out or if you move the camera or for other reasons. If you know exactly where the hitbox is at any moment, you can very precisely squeeze in for optimal positioning. Its a bigger deal than one would think at first glance. If you ever took an AOE to the face while being sure you were positioned correctly...the add-on would have prevented it.
at least on my viewpoint the main difference is whether it affects your gameplay or not. for example the main use, to my knowledge, of ACT is to see parse. but the ones that alter your game either via pulling the camera way back to see more of the screen others couldn't, they few programs that just straight up call out mechanics before the tell shows up in game, etc. just.. don't seem right to me.
"It doesn't matter if you cheat by a mile or an inch" Utterly untrue, community can come to a collective set of agreed rules to make an even playing field for competition and then limit their events and any potential rewards based on those rules
Yep... I was waiting for some shenanigans to happen...
It's so funny though that echo removed a rwf for "cheating" after the sneak.lua in WoW's Amirdrassil.
I haven't played XIV this expansion, I got burned out during the 2nd savage tier of Endwalker and haven't been back since but even when I was playing, ACT was a lot less frowned upon. It's an mmorpg, with competitive elements to it. As much as this wasn't the original design intention for Square, it's human nature. People are competitive, they want to know their damage numbers in an mmo, they want to compare themselves with other players on fflogs, etc. Problem is, ACT itself is like the gateway drug of plugins lmao. It opens up the door to everythingggg else, like Cactbot or trigger plugins, etc. Dalamud plugins was the other one from what I remember. Looks like a hitbox mod I'm guessing?
The only way this ends is if either A) Yoshi-P and team finally just say fuck it and say they don't care about addons anymore at all or B) they find a way to implement some kind of detection system that bans people for using ANY outside tool, without being too invasive to people's machines. That was always their roadblock in the past, maybe something will change in the future.
FFXIV has been in this weird place for years now where it's a grey area problem. YoshiP doesn't want people using mods, but they have no way of knowing you're using them. It's an honor system. YoshiP is like the dad who says "I'm not mad at you, I'm just disappointed." lmao. Well, maybe people should start getting fucking grounded lol.
It's a lose-lose either way they go about it. By Japanese law, they can't approve of any 3rd party programs that give an unfair competitive advantage over people not using them. If they go with anti-cheat software (even at the kernel level) it's still a game of whack-a-mole with mod devs figuring out exploits that don't get you flagged by it. It will always be an honor system. If you're in a world-first scenario, assume all of the competition is using every advantage they possibly can, approved or not. Only way to win is not to care about the competition and just be happy with clearing for yourself.
@@drayman101 You missed the whole point why they dont use Anti-Cheat.. its revenue. Imagine all mods gets you banned.. What about the thousands of people that just use mare to live their wet furry dream in Limsa? They just unsub and SE instantly lose about 10M Dollars in a year.
@@drayman101 even if devs just stopped devlopment, alot of you people dont know how much modbeasts are proping up your game.
The intro tho... piece of cake
just wait until yoship makes the red dot an actual feature of a raid mechanic like the zoomhack
WF race becomes console only haha
You don’t need act just get the flogs companion then you don’t need the outside parser that allowed for other cheating capabilities.
Also…
There is also a setting to have your stream in overlay show when you’re record & when you’re not but for that one recording is green & not is red. However there is an alignment setting that will display your center of the screen at all times & when you’re adjusting the location of the center of your screen it’s also visible you can turn it off & on
It takes a cheater to point out another cheater
Cleared 2 Ultimates so far; No ACT, no logs, no plugins, no nothing, I didn't even know what ACT was before purity tests. Cheating actively damages your developmental skills; Get good, it's a skill issue. Why would you want to cheat? I would rather hold an Ultimate weapon knowing that I earned it and not that I had a plugin tell me what to do; Because that doesn't feel good, that feels unworthy and unearned.
Even though everyone involved uses illegal 3rd party programs, it does matter, at least ethically, what kind of/how much of an advantage you have over those who do not cheat. Someone using a damage parse is completely different in terms of severity and gained advantage than someone who uses fully automatized callouts, auto-markers and hitzone displays.
I didn't realise a new ultimate released
the red dot was a message from all the non picto caster mains who just wanna play their job 😭
World first should be with all players only on ps5 to prevent cheating
its one thing to use it for helping learning fights ect not going for leaderboard ranking imo ONLY
Who would win? A team of people who put genuine effort into clearing an Ultimate, or the color red?
I mean, there is no way members of literally every other top 5 team would be using cheating mods. It would be absurd to think that. Because if that were true, they would've been caught like GRIND. (This comment is sponsored by Xenosys Vex)
i dont get it. what this red dot means?
I have been waiting for this!
Unnamed may have obtained TOP "World's First", but you know damn well that there's gonna be a big, fat asterisk next to it.
Same goes with Grind.
Community: Harder content please!
Also Community: MOAR CHEATS!
I don’t even play FF14 I’m just here for the drama.
Does this mean we getting Pixel Perfect added officially next patch.
All you have to is hold world first at a neutral locations with pc's provided by SE
"Every single team cheats". One of the most IMPORTANT parts of cheating is NOT GETTING CAUGHT. Idiots that get caught deserve to get stripped. This is coming from a super casual FF player with absolutely no skin in the game, lol. Just seems like common sense to me.
GOAT'd intro your baldness
I guess the only legit way to do a clear would be everyone on console, but I'm sure there's workaround for the console and there might be third party tools for it.
I'm completely out of the loop on Mods and Add-Ons, I'm just a mostly-casual player these days. Am I the only person NOT using some cheat mechanic on FFXIV? Hell, maybe I need to get one so I can breeze through some content I've not bothered with.
Cheating and violating ToS are very different things
I should bet money on each time there's a World-Race in Ultimates because the outcomes are so predictable.
The problem with the red dot is it means they could be using other 3rd party mods as well that aren't captured in a screenshot.
Edit: Xeno sounds so cooked about this. There is common sense on what mods people have a problem with. Being intellectually dishonest about that just to sound like you have a point is weird ngl. Using ACT in itself isn't cheating in the eye of the community.
Driving 2 mph over the speed limit is illegal but you wont find any cops pulling you over for it.
nah, people flipped their shit about a zoomhack when that kind of zoom is possible on wider displays. Pick your battles better.
least disingenuous plugin abuser be like:
How can you say that when ACT also holds a shit ton of cheats that can be hidden as well? You can’t excuse one plugin and allow the other.
@THETHC123 for the sake of uploading logs and seeing DPS, ACT isnt cheating in the eyes of the community. What's wrong with that statement? Lmao
@@lichmourne00 I simply think it's ironic that a program that also holds those "other 3rd party mods" is deemed ok just because its more common. How do you know that they're only uploading logs and not using cactbot, triggernometry, and all the other things that's in ACT? You don't. All of those can be hidden on stream in a separate layer so the viewers don't see and hear it. It's similar to how you don't know if GRIND only used the red dot and not anything else in Dalamud, as you said in your first statement. There's no difference. The reason why ACT is more accepted by the community is because it's use is so widespread across the game it's unavoidable, and now the community doesn't want to call themselves cheaters. Pot calling the kettle black.