Hey guys - Leo the editor here. I'm sorry if the audio is a bit scuffed this video. There was background music that I had to remove for RUclips. Also apologies if Xeno is a bit low energy, he streamed this reaction after raiding all day and getting his FRU clear so please be nice!
I forgive you for the audio thing. Hate how youtube screws with you for the xddTree theme. But I will not forgive Xeno's low energy because... BALD! xffingf
This is the correct take. Having an FPS plugin is against ToS, but is it really cheating? If so, that's some very twisted logic. It's like saying slavery is bad because it is illegal. No, slavery is bad regardless of whether it's legal or illegal
The problem with Xeno's and "the community's" take in this video, is that Frosty has to draw the line somewhere - and he really only has one place he can do so, which is exactly where he did. The rules for future races aren't meant to actually stop people from using addons, or disallow cheating or "cheating" or whatever people want to consider it. It's to give a clear, unambiguous answer for instances like the current race, when someone *gets caught* using an addon. It doesn't matter what the addon is. It doesn't matter if it's purely cosmetic. It doesn't matter if SE is planning on implementing the feature themselves. It doesn't matter if hardware can effectively produce the same/nearly the same effect. What the rules mean is that *if* someone gets caught, then there is zero question as to whether they are disqualified or not. It means that *if* people want to actively participate in the Race Event itself, there is at least *some* accountability beyond a clear screenshot. Is this realistically going to change anything about the race itself? No. But that doesn't matter. It only means that he can definitively say, if someone *gets caught*, that those rules are in place and there is zero ambiguity of that team getting kicked out of the Race Event.
"The rules for future races aren't meant to actually stop people from using addons, or disallow cheating or "cheating" or whatever people want to consider it" Are we reading the same thing? He clearly stated that *NO* add-ons and breaking ToS. Which means, one, NONE of the clears will be logged, two, no one will be able to use stuff like Discord, OBS, etc. It is absolutely meant to stop people from using add-ons and whatnot, lmao.
the players can be insanely good, but the instant I learn they have programs telling them where to go and what to do I stop being impressed and unable to relate to the racers because they are essentially playing a different game from the one that I play. So from a more casual viewer point of view i think frosty made the right choice.
yep absolutely! if these supposedly "best players" can't clear content, which has been thouroughly tested to be clearable with ANY class comp and without ANY third party tools, then maybe they aren't so good as they think they wanna be. And the real best players are the ones playtesting these ultimates beforehand. Like imagine losing to a 51 year old dude in a video game KEKW
The only way I can think of for this race to be legitimate is if Square Enix rents a fucking bodega, puts all racers inside, and provides ps5s with the game installed. Will never happen of course, but it's the only way for them to be absolutely sure
@@cyphi474 i mean how else would you catch him, load every computer with privacy invading anticheat that streams the entire screen and sends all file contents to the server? LOL
@@maerto Well... yea. Its competition, so fairplay is kinda expected. If you are affraid your "little dirty secrets" are worth something to someone......rofl...., then do not compete. Or, as someone suggested, make them play in controlled enviroment with neutral party oversight. Competition without enforced rules is worth absolutely nothing. Its worthless.
Frosty may have disqualified GRIND, but Kindred still openly recognised them as getting world first. Doesn't matter what the community says, when the teams actually competing acknowledge it.
I mean, I would argue that it's the exact opposite. It doesn't matter what the competing teams believe when the only perspective that gets remembered is what the community decides. In 3 years, when someone looks up who cleared FRU first, they will see Kindred's name.
Not entirely true, you can recognize the accomplishment using certain caveats. In this case GRIND would be considered the first modded clear of the ultimate, and Kindred would be considered the first streamer team clear of the ultimate. Much like what the Speed running community does to categorize the accomplishment the runners and let people value which accomplishment is more valuable. I know which I value more.
@@Quantum205 this is true, 100%. In fact, if squeenix wasn’t so uptight about mods then we could actually embrace the different categories. However, since they are, most people aren’t going to care about the “modded first clear” accomplishment. It just is what it is
There is a way to regulate a race, but like Xeno said, it would be a closed race hosted by MogTalk. These players would login into a specifically made virtual machine that has the game. This instance can be vetted to be mod free, and it can (and should) be monitored and streamed by the owner of the server providing all the virtual machines for the participants. Thus, you can guarantee the integrity of the race. The key sticking point here is the willingness of players to participate, and the community to accept such a highly regulated setup.
While making the rules is perfectly in Frosty's rights and I do understand him, none of this would happen if SE wasn't so bad at enforcing their own. I wonder if this ends up changing anything for the game (probably not) and if ironically the WF team would be better than the company at rules management. But in the end I'm just a spectator here, grabbing my pop corn and enjoying the show LOL
In order to enforce their rules they're going to need to make them worth obeying at this point. Let's take away all mods that by like...being truthful they are cheating. Get rid of cactbot, get rid of splatoon, get rid of anything that basically plays the game for you, and then also disregard purely cosmetic mods too. Some of the most commonly used mods in raiding otherwise are QoL stuff, stuff that people wouldn't use if...y'know...FF14 didn't have the shitty server backend of 2004 WoW in 2024, shit like XIVAlexander and NoClippy wouldn't need to be a thing if they actually fixed the backend like WoW amazingly managed to do at the same time FF14 1.0 was out...ON A MODIFIED WC3 RTS ENGINE THAT THEY STILL USE. Of course there's other stuff like buying an ultrawide being a literal pay to win advantage of seeing more on the screen than other people. tl:dr if Square ever starts complaining about it...they better stop using our damn sub money to fund their dumb NFT crypto adventures and other dumb shit and actually invest in their money maker more than a new MSQ every 2 1/2 years. FWIW I basically don't use...anything other than ACT while raiding so tomestone prowlers don't come prowling to boot because I didn't upload a log to prove I'm at a prog point, I just understand why certain mods exist so people can actually play the game.
you like many others forget that SE operates in their country's law setup, so there are many issues on that too regardless, and second the amount of tools people have been using end up looking like they want an AI to play instead of playing the game by this point
@@KainArkanosyour argument is pretty irrelevant when console is a thing. If you can play on console, you don’t need XIValexander to play. You’re confusing needs with wants.
i know that breaking the ToS is not cheating, but not for the japanese sadly. because of an incident where someone modded their console for cheathing at a fighting game competition, they made a law that bans all mods for any games and consoles that are made in japan. so every game and console companies in japan has to follow the law, and has to state publicly that modding = cheating. it's so stupid this happened with capcom too on monster hunter, they had to state mods = cheats. otherwise their company will get sued and potentially closed.
This is such a tightrope issue. They want PC players to be able to use addons at their own discretion with the unspoken rule that they should never get caught. But if they decide to crackdown on all addon users, you'll have a similar crowd of people who will be angry that they are being punished because of the irresponsible actions of a few. Even if they tell people not to do it, it doesn't matter, people will always do it. It's a lose lose situation no matter what. It's either they accept that they will break ToS to clear, stop holding races altogether/recognizing first world clears, or fly out competing teams to a specific stage with PS5s set up by the event organizers where they can monitor this. I think...those competing in the races should just learn how to not get caught breaking ToS. That's what I think. There's no way to completely stop this no matter what is done save installing an anticheat into the game and affecting even normal people with harmless things like chat bubbles or filters.. This only matters though if SE decides whether or not they no longer want to make ultimates if they feel like there's no point in putting in all that work to make challenging content that people can clear without extra help if people are just gonna cheat anyway lol. Imagine if you spend months and months building a nice race track and you're excited to to see people race on the track only to watch as everyone just pays someone to fly them all the way to the end of the track. But yeah, mirroring what Xeems said. Just don't get caught, stupid.
I might be wrong here but I don't think ACT has an arsenal of game breaking tools in a race setting right? The callouts aren't there yet because the fight is still being progged. I may be wrong here since I don't use it at all but seems like those functionalities wouldn't be available until later. Edit: Nevermind I was not aware of how easy it is to set up custom triggers
This ultimate is an anomaly since it was cleared so fast, but a lot of tools like automarkers were available rather quickly still. Usually when it takes more than 4-5 days to clear, everything is up and running.
My problem with saying cheating first is first, thats like saying the marathin runner who took a taxi to the finish line, lounged a few hours then ran across the finish line won. Sure, they were first, but it doesn't matter. Nobody considers them first and they lose their medal. Nobody refers fo the blatant cheater as the "real first". That said, frostys request will never ever work. Outside of asking everyone to stream, which doesn't prove anything anyways, the first two were never going to happen. The only way would be to force people to stream their actual desktop which would show overlays. And determined cheaters will find a way anyways. The race is unofficial anyways, just whitelist and acknowledge mods people will use that are aok.
Everyone took the taxi. It's the same every world race. You never know what ppl use to prog and then turn off for the clear VOD once they have all the information and strategies polished. Publicly whitelisting mods also poses a risk if Sq.Enix decides to look into it and go on a rampage like they did back in DSR.
@younginbull5837 se knows people are using mods. People stream mods all the time. My point was the idea that the obvious cheating team got first doesnt mean you cant dispute they were first.
I get what you are saying, but the difference between a marathon and uwfr is there are clear rules and they can be enforced. In a race without rules you might es well take a taxi or rocket even. All that counts is get over the finish line.
@@younginbull5837 Yeah exactly, you never know so how do we know that teams used anything beyond ACT? That's right we don't. The "everyone cheats anyway" mentality is why JP got caught cheating for 2nd UWR in a row. We will never know which teams (that didn't already get caught) cheated and which didn't. We'll never know how much the cheating teams cheated. But just automatically assuming every streaming team cheated (beyond ACT logs) is ridiculous and if that's the mentality community has, there's no point in world racing, is there.
Hey everyone, this is going to be fairly long, I have decided to wear green shirt today. This may not be the answer most people wanted, but it’s the answer I feel is right. -noone
Basically there will be "actual world first" and "Mogtalk world first" - there's a possibility they will overlap, but its not guaranteed (and depending on uploads, possibly "FFLogs World First")
The main reason I quit WoW was because I was sick of the addon scene, and how prevalent it was in the game, community, and development philosophy. A big part of the appeal of FF14 was that from the outside looking in, it looked like it was different. And it was, but the only difference was the company policy on it. Under the surface, the community is the exact same. If people enjoy the game and the raids, then go for it. Just because people are cheating doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. But the idea that there's any value in a world first race with zero integrity is kind of a joke, and chasing achievements in online multiplayer games is a waste of time.
@glimoreganajai2206 Yeah, that's the decision I came to. I haven't logged on to an MMO since the end of July. Which is a shame because there are parts of these games I like. But it's not worth it anymore.
Pokemon actually listened to the playerbases' complaints about team grind and made it super easy to make a competitive team nowadays, there's items to change nature, max IVs and EVs. So there's no more reason to cheat.
@wight4991 It's not about "making a good team themselves" It's getting the stats they need to be able to use them competively in tournaments. It's about time investment. Spending 6hrs compared to spending 2hrs because of luck is not skill. That being said, S/V made this grind a lot shorter and reasonable.
Personal the RWF has basically become just a time to wait for whatever meme about 3rd party come about given its happen three times in a row. At this point, if you want a "clean" race, you going to have to force people on to PS5s just to be sure, and PCs players would roit about having to play on a weaker system just to not to be assumed to be cheating. I just hope people who do Ult fight, don't every get the shaft due to the memes and keep getting content for them.
I'd say just demand people stream it. I had a guy who was upset with me when I said that Yoshi-P doesn't have the balls to actually enforce this stuff (let's be real, players have heavily abused his kindness and continued to push the envelope). The reason why players are up in arms over the streaming rule (in my opinion) is because they know they're running some 3rd party tools and will be exposed for not being good at raiding possibly. The most common "reason" I see is that it gives away the strategy but who tf is gonna be able to stream snipe a strategy mid fight in content that's extraordinarily chaotic? Unless they got the Flash on their team, I don't see that happening
@@chelsthegameruiner8669people arent up in arms over the streaming rule. Its mostly a pointless rule because it will change nothing at all, youre adding a rule that will make 0 impact. Hiding the plug ins takes 0, and i do mean 0 effort which is proved by Xeno in this very video. Its literally just the click of a button since everything is an overlay or you can focus only XIV sounds. You can also hide the dalamud menu from the ESC menu through other means so no one will know that you have dalamud installed. Streaming also takes a considerable amount of resources to stream while keeping consistent perfomance on XIV and not everyone has a PC capable of running that. Edi: We also literally saw other stream teams use Kindreds strats in FRU. It also takes almost no effort to just change how you're doing a mech to get a one up on the competition.
I've always thought it was weird how normal behavior in other MMOs like wow is considered "cheating" and a bannable offense. It's clearly done because of the stupid console version. Personally, I think PS5 players should deal with it or get a PC.
Cheating is Cheating, like it or not, and no it's not black and white like the silly argument of semantics everyone uses, it's VERY different using ACT to upload logs and having zoomhack, pixelperfect addons or Cactbot automated callouts, even if the argument is "it's the same as having a player doing callouts" it's not, a machine doesn't make mistakes. Stop with the void arguments about cheating and just don't cheat.
Want a legit world first race? Arrange a way to qualify teams to the race, then fly them to Japan and have them prog the fight using PS5/PC systems at Square Enix headquarters (let them bring their keyboards and mouses if they want to). Anything else wouldn't be legit.
@@matzck9674 generally those things include an aimbot of sorts, good luck sneaking something that hooks directly into the game that way. Also, they would live and someone would be monitoring the teams at all times, in person, unless you have a hot switch, you're not hiding it that easily. Also, if something like cactbot would be able to be snuck on board, SE could easily just hook into the system audio, which then proudly makes it audible, they could even make it be remote so the person in question couldn't just hot switch it off when someone comes by.
@@kman6004 Look they can't afford to make FFXIV better. They gotta channel all their money into NFT crypto games and a bunch of crappy remakes that fail to make the money they're looking for.
that would defeat the world race aspect, then it would just become squeenix teams race lol Without an anti cheat in the game, or even just a way to opt into an anti cheat specifically for the race, there is no way to enforce the world race as "cheat" free
Only way to have a legitimate world first race would be for SE to create an anti-cheat and to police addons, which I think is never going to happen. Plus they’d probably lose half their playerbase (erp’ers with all the body mods). Until that happens, you can’t consider it to be legitimate.
@@Aegea291 The difference is that there's laws surrounding this. IIRC in Japan specifically; they can't just create an anti-cheat right now because it's something that is intrusive and it's considered illegal and deceptive especially if it's a feature that wasn't stated outright to be included with the release of the initial product (Base FFXIV). Also you do realize that despite WoW and League having anti-cheats, there's still a lot of cheaters right? Having an anti-cheat won't just magically make all of the 3rd party stuff go away. People WILL find a way to get through it and the only ones that won't appear are the ones who put in no effort to use 3rd party tools.
@ can you find a SINGLE example of a leaderboard that shows GRIND on top? Every single one I have found shows kindred at the top. I think you’re wrong, dude. Most people will forget about GRIND
@@kman6004 The FFXIV lodestone says they we're first to get title and achievement, and Kindred the team that got 1st on Mogtalk is saying they we're 2nd and GRIND earned it.
@@kreizytaxi Where does the Lodestone say this? I don't see it in their news section. If you're saying that you have to go digging through player's profiles, that's not realistic. People in the future who look to see who cleared first are going to look for a leaderboard or some kind of similar graphic. I have yet to see one that shows GRIND at the top. Have you?
I've been playing on console since 2.0, really. Sometimes I wonder if playing on PC would have helped or hurt me. I still have that magical trophy of clearing an ultimate hanging above my head, and the fact that I have to do it for real I think is a big part of why I'm still here. I love this game
Ya you have to do it for real so did the other 7 in there with you. Addons or not. It's great you cleared but even if they did clear with shit on their screen you don't have doesn't necessarily invalidates their clear cause then in a way it invalidates your clear cause you benefitted from them not fucking up in content that woulda made it so you count clear body checks in ultimates.
I honestly don't care if the other 7 people cheat, I found happiness in how I've cleared myself. Also I have a personal rule of never using a tool that I feel will hinder my ability to play without it. So on patch day I feel comfortable jumping into content without having to wait for tools to come back lol As time has gone on and I've cleared more ultimates though, I've learned a lot about what tools people are using and yeah there's some crazy ones 😂 They are playing a totally different game
Simple solution: World first requires every member to clear on a PS5/Xbox and you provide the timestamped achievement from PSN/Xbox Live as your proof of clear, and they all need to match the time of the clear vod.
Sure ... playing on a machine who can't handle the game properly and with something as innapropriate as a controller to make precise actions. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure ...
@@Warcraft_Traveleryou either have only played/seen the game running on last gen hardware or don't know what you're talking about Current gen has stable framerate within duties and say what you will about controller but the game was designed with it in mind, but regardless you can use a mouse and keyboard if you so choose
I absolutely love raiding without tools outside of just seeing the dps meter in act, anything else is just too much for me imo because I'm here to challenge myself with the content, not cheat even with simple call out commands. World first is just a different beast, as it's a competition, with the challenge of the fight and figuring out strats to resolve them. However they do it, it doesn't matter to me because that strat will be used in pf, or a static party I'm in will homebrew some jank shit. World first is a competition, just so they can clear first. Third party tools like act are borderline needed just for mathing out dps checks, i can get that. But act has so much utility it's an insane tool if you know how to use it. It's just crazy how we're STILL having this debate, but I personally think the world first should just go to whoever, mainly because world first means just that, even if I hate using those tools.
I still want a shield bar on the solo player hp bar, give a blue line and number showing how big hp the shield has, i know the orange bar in party, but if im solo I wanna see did I get 7k or 14k shields :c Was very surprised it wasnt indicated in the hp below the hotbar (when you start fresh, I do know a lot of people have moved hotbar to the side etc.)
I know he's already responded and I'm gonna watch that video next but one hundo percent not having logs is a net negative. Logs are such a good tool for finding actual cheaters. Now to hop over to the response and see what changed
IIRC after the TOP race space station drama, Frosty said he would only recognise a streamed world first clear. So I am assuming he will forget what he wrote here next ultimate and we will have the exact same conversation forever. Or at least until combat logs are added to the game.
So everyone seems to be on the boat that cheating is impossible to police and that there will never be a fair World Race. In that case if no one is willing to follow TOS and get caught repeatedly for "cheating" then maybe they will decide to not make such content. Yoshi-p has definitly been dissapointed but if this continues and no one is willing to bite the bullet and not break TOS then I guess we have to hope the hype for this content is too great and that they won't be able to stop making it. If you do World Race and have mods be ready to possibly have your clear revoked, that's how it is always going to be.
he was already saying that he will stop making this type of content, if people refuse to play by the rules after the last race, but the community convinced him to make the next one, so maybe this was the straw that broke the camels back for him, because the same players that begged him to not abbandon making ultimates for them, also just stabbed him in the back again the second the new ultimate got released.
Yeah to me this basically boils down to having a stream world first competition, and then separately there would *just be* a world first to fflogs. It may be the case that a log gets uploaded before any of the streamers complete it. Whoever cares super strongly about cheating can choose to ignore it. And people can similarly note that the stream world first may, in fact, contain cheaters. If they get caught? Disqualified, fine. I will say that if an off-stream group is secretly spending a bunch of their time crafting perfect cactbot triggers in discord, the stream world first competition may disincentivize THAT at least. They could do it in their off-time when not streaming, but if it was possible that they're spending a significant amount of time doing that, maybe the streamed WF helps. But yeah either way everyone has different standards about what they want to "acknowledge"; some will 'respect' the group who uploads first to fflogs regardless of whatever plugins they're using, some will respect the group that clears it first on stream, etc. A "world first on stream and there's no EVIDENCE of third party assistance" seems at least to be a way for people to categorize raid groups into a bucket where there is SOME plausible deniability that they 'cheated'. If that helps their consciousness about who they worthlessly deem to be the "TRUE WORLD FIRST!!" At the end of the day I'm all about 'fair play' and competitive integrity if there is a competition. What it seems like people forget about this, however, is that the rules of any 'competition' are ultimately COMPLETELY ARBITRARY. The only reason we have any of this tension is because the majority of the (western) raiding community clearly wants to participate in a DIFFERENT COMPETITION than whatever crazy restrictions exist in JP or to get Yoshi's blessing. If the majority of the other participants in this 'competition' were truly playing legit it'd be one thing. But because most other ultimate groups also use plugins, I don't really feel like any of those participants MIND other groups using plugins. It's this stupid need for this "global blessed world first by YOSHI-P, who sets completely different rules then what we actually want to follow" that causes all of the consternation. We can make our own rules as a community and stop trying to seek validation from SE or casuals who don't even raid and yet have strong opinions about competitive integrity. The competitors for an agreed upon ruleset should always be the ONLY ones who decide what the winning criteria and competitive integrity mean. Let's stop getting caught up in this stupid game where we're trying to synchronize all of the various perspectives to find a global, immutable definition of "TRUE world first"; it's a waste of time. JP can have their stupid ruleset where they don't even upload a log (because if they did, it would mean the run was CHEATED!!!!) and the only proof of it is the title/glam in game (because OBS or a physical camera over one the players shoulders would be a third party tool!!!). Certainly nobody will cheat then, right???
I'll add that the personal standard I'd be interested in is: Whoever uploads the first clear to fflogs is the 'world first' in my book. Plugins allowed, whatever. Done. I'd be happy to separately acknowledge a "stream world first" too as a group who *may have* had a harder fight due to commitment to not use plugins. If they get caught, cool, they're disqualified and the first group who does not get caught wins that competition. I actually funnily enough don't give a shit about JP's ruleset. It's easier to 'cheat' than fflogs OR streamed. I have absolutely no faith in the competitive integrity of that competition, LOL. At least there's a CHANCE that winners of the fflogs / stream competitions were done within the defined rules. Yoshi's rules are so fucking stupid that it's almost impossible NOT To cheat.
The truth of the matter is not a single thing Frosty is making a rule will matter nor will it do anything. Xeno is right though, Grind won world first, by every definition they cleared first that's what it means so he can remove them from his leaderboards, but that doesn't mean the fight is now uncleared again. It's been done and that doesn't go away. Anyone not paying attention to the leaderboards or doesnt' even know this stuff exists shouldn't be excluded from the community's world first title just because they didn't know of some artificial rules that guess what, can't be controlled. Ik Xeems said all this but yeah, can't be enforced, all this means is don't get caught, but even then people need to stop taking these leaderboards as gospel, there are no official leaderboards and only the clears Frosty deems acceptable are put up so, tons of people aren't even up there just cause of one persons opinion on the race. That doesn't make sense this should be the communities choice. i don't raid so idk why but I dont' think we should be putting it all on one guy. I have no hate for him btw, I just don't think he should be put in the center, he clearly wasn't wanting to be and is now stuck here and unfortunately can't do much about it. He wants to log people to verfify their runs but it's illegal to log that doesn't make sense
In a world first situation act's extra features don't even work and same with splatoon probably didn't even have a working script unless world first riaders had time to datamine the fight while raiding (which is what happens) although this dot looks suspiciously like the dot from PTOM which just shows you who is targetting you which explains why its in the middle of the screen
Basically the raid community (especially the hardcore part) is a joke, and they seem content with that, which means there's no reason to ever take anyone's claim of "skill" seriously because they can't prove they didn't cheat because it's no longer suspected, it's assumed. Now comes the part where we see what Square-Enix does about it, given they've threatened the idea of not making any more Ultimates on the basis of "why bother" if this is how the content is treated. Alternately, Square-Enix may introduce their own cheats (which they've done with other Final Fantasy games) and any actual difficulty will become "optional" because that's what the playerbase clearly wants. Turns out that in the end, the modbeasts weren't just hiding in the "Other" tab, and the next time Square-Enix simplifies something, it can't be wholly blamed on casuals.
dude most raiders dont use splatoon that leads u into safe spots, they use red dot because jobs like dragoon have jumpy animations and u literally cannot see where exactly u standing because your legs are never on ground. its mostly QOL stuff. You may see zoom hack as cheat, but is it really if u can set your resolution to widescreen via GPU driver and have same result? Hardcore raids arent dificult, they are time consuming. U likely gaslighted yourself into thinking videogame where all u do is stack/spread/dodge cleave is dificult.
@@glimoreganajai2206 Nah, it's just that constantly, for years, we've heard the hardcore crowd talk about how "skilled" they are, complain that other people aren't as "skilled", that the game is "too easy" or that casuals are "ruining" the game due to the belief that they're the crowd that Square-Enix keeps simplifying jobs for. When in reality the hardcore crowd can't do anything without a crutch, that the reason mosy people do worse than them is because they're not being boosted, that of course something is going to seem like breezy content when you cheat through all of it (because I doubt they're only doing this on Ultimate), and that the hardcore is actually the one that SE has to keep chewing their food for because they choke and cry to the point they need a red dot to teach them how to function. If anyone gaslighted themselves, it was the hardcore players thinking they were actually good, and they prove it every time the supposed "best" get caught like this, and we've reached "mandatory addon" levels like World of Warcraft if this is what the raiding scene has turned into (or rather, what it always was but kept living in denial.)
@@Dyxid i mean using tools or not ultimates require u to be skilled, people have to know how snapshots work, people know how their mits function, they alternate their combo based on amount of enemies and do proper rotation looping. Claiming hardcore raiders are cheaters and their achievments doesnt matter because of red dot.... idk man, its aint that helpfull, maybe helps u to spread out in aoe 2 metter wide, but its not gamebreaker. like ye theres splatoon, but people with zoomhacks, red dot, jobbars i dont consider as cheating at all, this stuff should be in core game.
@@Dyxid same goes for automarker, that drama keeps me laughting because people talk like as if automarker makes u automatically clear, it doesnt, it only assigns u certain role in fight, and u should know what to do if u get bind 1 marker. It requires less communication sure, but u still gotta know and understand what u doing in fight to clear, its basically replacement for voice comms of some sort.
@@glimoreganajai2206 Sorry, but no, the hardcore crowd doesn't get to "roid-up" to win a race and then pretend like they could have won without it (otherwise they would have), or how listing off a bunch more mods just goes to show how dependent hardcore players are they if they can't manage without everything little thing being done for them like that. So if the cheating "doesn't matter" than neither do their accomplishments, and now they get the added bonus of knowing that they're part of why the game keeps getting "dumbed down" because clearly it's been too much for them. The next time one of them loads up ACT or its other assistance functions, they can thank themselves for things like VPR getting changed less than a month later, because maintaining a debuff really was as hard for them as the casuals they mocked, and Square-Enix's decision was to accommodate both.
I think any form of competition in the game like world firstor speedkill will never work for ff14 unless square enix decide to put an anti cheat for the game. Like it's pretty sad that we all know for sure that every top team doing these thing cheat (and not just using act to log level of cheat).
As someone who has played WoW for roughly 20 years and FFXIV since HW, I am of the mind that world first races should be COMPLETELY community driven with zero endorsing of game developers. It gets exhausting having encounter/class balance being dictated by these players when a season first come out. Not saying FFXIV would follow that model, but it's also not a great box to open just in case, either.
When this drama 1st happened, my 1st suggestion was just making two categories like Xenos suggested. Stream and Non-stream. Have the Stream teams agree to only using x/y/z addons, and if they use anything else disqualify them. For Non-streams, just have them verified like you would a speedrun. No one is going to care about the non-streams when it comes to RWF, no one cares about Non-streams.
What state do you live in? 'cause that's the first time I've heard that a clause in a ToS with a job could prevent you from collecting unemployment if you're let go for any reason. It usually comes down to the reason you were terminated. If it was for egregious behavior - blatant, illegal acts; knowingly and deliberately breaking company TOS, etc - you can be refused. Otherwise, in the vast majority of cases, the state will grant you unemployment insurance. And, it looks bad for the company if they're trying to refuse it no matter what, because they're basically denying you a way to pay bills, buy food, etc.
Yeah...there's definitely a tough time for describing the meaning of cheating in this game nowadays. Honestly, I do truly think it's impressive that people can be total purists to the game and still manage to clear difficult content such as this. It takes a lot of discipline and integrity to not lean on those programs just because "everyone's using them". There needs to be a clearer line, clearer rules to state what is clearly a matter of describing what is against TOS; and what is for all intents and purposes "cheating". And I'll be honest, I don't know what that answer should be, but it should be found. I have a lot of respect for the people that do it as the game intended. I also respect the people that feel they need to have those tools to help them get the clear. It's their game, they're gonna play how they're gonna play. But in the end, it's also gonna be SE's call in regards to the WR. If they continue to let it happen, at the very least for WR, it's just gonna reflect that they're being hypocritical of people that use mods and get caught using them for any difficult content. So instead of getting mad at frosty or GRIND, we need to take the issue directly to SE and get the final answer. Get the rules endorsed, figure out what's gonna work and where, and figure out the best way for everyone involved to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be, instead of being left in such a grey area.
ACT is how you compile the data to upload to fflogs in the first place. Without ACT (or some other substitute program doing something similar) you would have no logs. No one is actually going to manually calculate dps using a calculator as was the example YoshiP gave himself.
i get the sense that frosty/others want the xiv race to be *more* and to be acknowledged officially by SE, so parroting their rules makes sense even if it ends up being contradictory in practice and everyone knows it’s not something that can be followed. ultimately, the “winner” is whoever the community collectively decides to acknowledge, so if everyone decides that playing from the moon is cool then it’s fine-they’re first. otherwise, they might as well being telling everyone they have an uncle that works at nintendo, because if the community doesn’t acknowledge you then it’s Joever™. also people do this every time, but every plugin for this game is cheating no matter what it does. it can give you H cup boobs, or make your minimap into a hexagon. it’s all cheating-you have an advantage in whatever it is you’re doing in the game. it’s easier to RP your dommy mommy when your wol has mommy milkers you can visibly see. you play better in pvp with the odd shaped map because it just makes you happier. trying to do olympic gymnastics to justify why *your* mods “aren’t cheating, actually” just demonstrates that you don’t care about “cheating” you only care about people playing the game the way you think they should.
There is currently no mod nor third party for PS5 right now. However, who is to say it can't and will never happen. Even if the community sets up a PS5-only race, as long as there is enough of an incentives, I'm sure someone will figure out a way to run the addons. Even if we go to the extent of banning every in-game addons including logs or even discord, people will probably "cheat within the rules" in other ways, like doing callouts with phone conferences or playing in person. The only people who will never cheat are people who don't want to win enough. I think Frosty and the community should just stop trying to make it an "official world first" and "SE/developers approved race". Just be honest and call it the "Streamer/Community race" or "MogTalk race".
If there was a program that literally only scans combatlog and nothing else and FFlogs could differentiate between ACT and this program. Then have a rule that only that could be used.
Okay lets split it up There is a "First" but there is the race, which is separate. It doesnt matter if you kiled first. If you didnt participate in the race you didnt win. Just as the fastest runner doesnt win my school competition just because he is faster. He didnt participate so he didnt win
Is that why he immediately changed his wording the next day? Because he was so right and impossibly correct? LOL. Frosty just causing more drama honestly by not saying it like it is and blaming SE for being absurdly archaic.
I feel like a lot of people miss the purpose behind SE’s stance or simply don’t know better. It’s quite literally against the law there to modify software in any capacity so obviously Yoshi and the corp must follow suit. Players are extremely lucky they don’t clamp down as they “should” (per their law) as many wouldn’t be able to play otherwise. (May that be because they are just bad or their latency makes it impossible to run content) this is why you get things that later appear as features in the game but they can only go so far. SE does their best to turn a blind eye but have their hands forced when it’s pushed in their face. Grind 100% won this race and the hypocrisy of them cheating while the others are shown on FFlogs is simply asinine. 😂
This whole situation is 100% SE's fault. They should either implement anti cheat, get rid off third party launcher and actively police addon users. Or allow addons in their own launcher and just hire someone to filter through them all ? Like yes, this addon is banned and this one is not. Create their own list. Staying in this weird grey area where they are not allowed but only police players when they snitch on themselves is just ridiculous.
@@ragnacrashfever6460 I'm saying what should happen. I don't believe they will do anything. Staying in grey zone doesn't cost anything other than reputation that SE barely has
who gives a fuck about which team kills a boss first, it's the race that's fun, the discovery of the fight and the diverse strat found by the teams, not the outcome.
Okay I have a solution to the modding problem, because we know why FFXIV won't go on a banhammer shotgun spree against everyone with mods: The reason is over 90% of their player base uses mods in some form or another and if they did, their game would effectively die. And doing this would be them shooting the goose that lays the golden eggs. The solution goes as such: 1. It would have to be known if it is necessary or not to have anything in the ToS of a game mentioning that Mods are against ToS. I had heard that it's a law in Japan that their online games can't be modded. However, I have not heard anything in specific if it's necessary BY LAW for a games ToS to mention that people aren't allowed to mod. 2. If it's not necessary BY LAW to mention mods in any fashion in the ToS of a japanese game, then FFXIV can get around this by technicality and just remove the section of their ToS that mentions mods at all. 3. In this way, removing the mention of mods in their game from the ToS they're essentially making it not a bannable offense to use mods. Boom, you've just gotten around the illegality of mods by simple TECHNICALITY. Now they no longer need to say it's outright illegal/against the rules/whatever in their game and they can just ACCEPT the modding community altogether. Honestly? It would help them if they did this. Do you know how much this helps WoW players because blizzard just allows them to mod the game freely? Their game is STILL SURVIVING despite all of their bullshit, and I think it's mainly because of roleplayers and the modding community working their asses overtime in place of the actual game devs.
"live in a world where no dabate ln what is cheating and what ain't" but in the begining he says people buying ultra wide screen is consider cheating 😂 there will always be a debate about cheating only every participant is in a room together with all the exact same equiment
Waiting for someone from SE to see this video and ban you for admitting to cheating by showing custom triggers inside your act. Even if they close eyes on parse, custom triggers are blank by default, so it means that you used them in the past or still are using them. But at same time if they would ban you, they should ban half of game population.
I had a thought. Is it cheating when two player play the same character? Like, I did this for fun with my GF once. She had a controller for the movement and I just pressed my rotation. Worked great and i didnt had to think about anything other then my rotation and mitigation.
Square's actual stance on addons is obviously moronic (and yoship knows this as he has existed in raid scenes and knows tools like ACT exist for a reason). The law is not always right, and shouldn't be used as a strictly moral guideline. It's up to the actual world first players to decide amongst themselves what they want to be acceptable in their community challenge, and what should cause social ostracisation. Just like casual players think that some plugins should exist in the game (text bubbles) some competitive players are of the same mind. If it appeals to the spirit of the game, then it should be in. XIVALEX/Noclippy should just be in the game, this is not a hot take. The poor implementation of networking that essentially reads double your ping for animation locks is just bad design that fucks over people with bad connection. Pixel Perfect is a harder sell but I'd still agree on it. In a game all about dodging aoes, you'd probably want to know where your character _actually is_ in 14's increasing visual clutter. It sucks that if you want to be optimal, playing lala in less flowy outfits is the way to go as it's the easiest to sus out where you're actually standing. This is increasingly relevant as attack animations have gotten more flashy to the point of your character simply disappearing all together as they warp around (viper). I'd personally not go much farther past that point and stand firmly against any plugin that actively solves a mechanic for you (act/cact callouts, splatoon, ect) but ultimately it's up to the people actually doing the content. I do not care about square's definition of cheating. They're not the ones running the tournament, and any attempted 'official' tournament is forced to follow their stance on modding which the community OBVIOUSLY disagrees with as this game's modding scene is massive. I do not care about the opinion of people who will never touch the content.
If people can not uphold an honor system , then square should just refocus the dev team for these fights to do lateral content. If they cant stop cheating then dont give them anything to cheat on.
Every content is one to cheat on. Freaking Cact Pot has literal auto solvers that tell you which balls to select for the highest chance of winning. That's Golden Saucer stuff, the most casual of casual content. Stop making Ultimates? People will just cheat in Savage (which they probably do already). Stop making Savage? People will just cheat in Extreme. You can cheat in every piece of content in the game. Whether or not people actually cheat is a different story but you're asking them to not make any content.
The worst part is that the rules themselves are contradictory. Because of how SE just straight up refuses to be more specific about what constitutes unfair third party tools, streaming and recording itself, strictly by the letter of SE's ToS, is also against ToS. Ironically even moreso than sims. If you want to follow ToS strictly as it is written, you must not have any other programs open at all. No discord, no recording, no streaming, even using your web browser to look up a guide is technically using a third party program. All of this is on SE.
@@massPanic22 Sure, we might know what they mean, but legally their ToS doesn't define that. They don't specify, so at any moment they could say that OBS or Discord or even third party controllers are against ToS and be correct. That's the point, they refuse to specify and just kind of operate on a 'you get what we mean' policy which is simply not good enough.
@harukun ye that why I think they should just ban everyone for anything. Atleast then it would be super clear to you all what they mean. Honestly I never thought people would try and argue this point. Like seriously.
@@massPanic22 This exact reason is the why it's imperative why they define what constitutes cheating. It could be as simple as 'modifications that directly alter game files or alter game data being sent to the servers.' and that's infinitely more clear. You can't have a system where it's so ill defined that you can ban literally your entire PC playerbase.
"Don't get caught" was always the SE policy, so it makes perfect sense to be the community policy as well. The mods may improve the gameplay experience, but the existence of mods in general makes the game substantially worse. The mods shouldn't exist; the game should just be fixed such that no one feels like those mods are necessary. The two most pressing issues (that will probably never happen) is for SE to add an official way of exporting logs AND to fix their dogshit netcode, so the slightest latency/jitter doesn't completely mess up the gameplay. The former is easy, but they don't really want to do it, and the latter is difficult, and they don't give enough of a crap about it, hence it ain't gonna happen. SE caring more about PvP than PvE racing is absolutely insane. XIV PvP (much like most MMORPGs) is boring rubbish that no one cares about.
Honestly I stopped caring about world clears, at the end of the day they don't mean anything of value. You still get the same loot drops as someone who cleared world first and someone who clears it 3 months later. World Prog is just an adrenaline rush really for those that do it.
Honestly, SE needs to stop having a stick up their butt about plugins. They clearly don't wish to spend the resource on the game to include the kinds of things even basic QoL plugins can do like NoClippy. So either support them in some official capacity like WoW does or spend money and implement themselves. People are not going to give up logs, no clippy, minor ui/fixes, and other such things. So call us all cheaters but I don't think I've met one PC player who doesn't use at least one plugin to do some kind of QoL fix.
This is just so stupid all because SE isn't supporting the world first race. Plugins wouldn't even be a problem if SE just made it a sanctioned event, and it's not like there isn't an audience for the world first race, there very obviously is. If you make a stage and invite people like the way Blizzard does the MDI, those people have to use SE's machines without plugins.
Let this be a lesson to people who use mods: Use your OBS capture tool to take screenshots, not snipping tools. There's an option in that program that says "hide 3rd party program or SLI interaction tools. Basically: mod manager and the tools that the mod managers interact with.
@@Kairax some things yes, some things no. for example, there are some plugins that'll tell you what song is playing, what your ping is (which should be available without needing to use task manager) and what your FPS is without opening your settings constantly, which are added to the text that shows your server/time. (still easily hideable if you truly care)
*asks for harder content, but chooses to cheat" what's the point having harder content if people are just going to cheat to get through it? I feel like we are in a cycle now where we are heading in the direction of WoW with add-ons at this point.
I mean... he is running the current closest thing to an official world's first race. He is kinda in a position to at least try this, and people have asked them to try to add rules to stop this and... got clowned on by the other side for trying.
Not gonna convince an addict that maybe they shouldn't be using.. Xeems & Arthars are rampant with this stuff. But they're pretty good entertainers. xff
World first raiders must be on PS5/PS4 or Pro equivalent. Everyone must stream as well. No mods no anything. Limited tools exist to fix latency issues in the console ver we can allow it since it is basically noclippy but none of the other BS. Bam solved world first raiding /s
modding your client in any way, or using plugins, should disqualify you, dick mod, fps counter, act, doesnt matter. play the video game the way you were meant to install it, if youre breaking ToS, you dont need to be celebrated. is that enforceable? is that even realistic? probably not, but that should be the precedent set.
I wonder if there is a way for square, with a program or something, to tell if you have mods running and deny queueing for a duty if they are detected.
I disagree fully on your take. Addons give an unfair advantage to all pc players since console players cant use them. If an all console team joins the race, they are at an automatic disadvantage because people cheat. Thats not skill, it comes down to pc vs console.
Hey guys - Leo the editor here. I'm sorry if the audio is a bit scuffed this video. There was background music that I had to remove for RUclips. Also apologies if Xeno is a bit low energy, he streamed this reaction after raiding all day and getting his FRU clear so please be nice!
Hooooow was the Wise Tree music copyrighted. Daymm RUclips.
I forgive you for the audio thing. Hate how youtube screws with you for the xddTree theme. But I will not forgive Xeno's low energy because... BALD! xffingf
damn the 6k audio system spreads even to edits jk jk
I disliked this video, somewhat because I disagree, but mainly because you are bald.
When he said "visual triggers" I immediately thought"like ur bald head" xdd
Stop it, you're using cheats.
I wish we could all agree to start differentiating between "against TOS" and "cheating", because not all plugins are equal in this regard.
Facts
This is the correct take. Having an FPS plugin is against ToS, but is it really cheating? If so, that's some very twisted logic. It's like saying slavery is bad because it is illegal. No, slavery is bad regardless of whether it's legal or illegal
against tos is cheating.
Still cheating
@@tram9308 Tell me how is having a booba mod 'cheating'? lmao.
Alternate title. Bald man rants about something he says he doesn't care about 24/7 but insists he doesn't care.
Bald man doesn’t care. He does it for us, the drama thirsty internet dwellers.
The problem with Xeno's and "the community's" take in this video, is that Frosty has to draw the line somewhere - and he really only has one place he can do so, which is exactly where he did.
The rules for future races aren't meant to actually stop people from using addons, or disallow cheating or "cheating" or whatever people want to consider it. It's to give a clear, unambiguous answer for instances like the current race, when someone *gets caught* using an addon.
It doesn't matter what the addon is. It doesn't matter if it's purely cosmetic. It doesn't matter if SE is planning on implementing the feature themselves. It doesn't matter if hardware can effectively produce the same/nearly the same effect.
What the rules mean is that *if* someone gets caught, then there is zero question as to whether they are disqualified or not. It means that *if* people want to actively participate in the Race Event itself, there is at least *some* accountability beyond a clear screenshot.
Is this realistically going to change anything about the race itself? No. But that doesn't matter. It only means that he can definitively say, if someone *gets caught*, that those rules are in place and there is zero ambiguity of that team getting kicked out of the Race Event.
TLDR; You can't use ACT for logs
"The rules for future races aren't meant to actually stop people from using addons, or disallow cheating or "cheating" or whatever people want to consider it"
Are we reading the same thing? He clearly stated that *NO* add-ons and breaking ToS. Which means, one, NONE of the clears will be logged, two, no one will be able to use stuff like Discord, OBS, etc. It is absolutely meant to stop people from using add-ons and whatnot, lmao.
the players can be insanely good, but the instant I learn they have programs telling them where to go and what to do I stop being impressed and unable to relate to the racers because they are essentially playing a different game from the one that I play. So from a more casual viewer point of view i think frosty made the right choice.
Absolutely the correct choice. Xeno is coping
yep absolutely! if these supposedly "best players" can't clear content, which has been thouroughly tested to be clearable with ANY class comp and without ANY third party tools, then maybe they aren't so good as they think they wanna be.
And the real best players are the ones playtesting these ultimates beforehand.
Like imagine losing to a 51 year old dude in a video game KEKW
The only way I can think of for this race to be legitimate is if Square Enix rents a fucking bodega, puts all racers inside, and provides ps5s with the game installed. Will never happen of course, but it's the only way for them to be absolutely sure
@@wight4991Thinking that they “thoroughly test” ultimates is the real cope, and hilarious.
@@wight4991 That last part is not true at all because we have countless prove that they almost don't playtest the fights
World first racing is just going to be see who gets caught cheating first on camera first.
Only prove its completely worthless competition.
@@cyphi474 i mean how else would you catch him, load every computer with privacy invading anticheat that streams the entire screen and sends all file contents to the server? LOL
@@maerto Well... yea. Its competition, so fairplay is kinda expected. If you are affraid your "little dirty secrets" are worth something to someone......rofl...., then do not compete.
Or, as someone suggested, make them play in controlled enviroment with neutral party oversight.
Competition without enforced rules is worth absolutely nothing. Its worthless.
Frosty may have disqualified GRIND, but Kindred still openly recognised them as getting world first. Doesn't matter what the community says, when the teams actually competing acknowledge it.
I mean, I would argue that it's the exact opposite. It doesn't matter what the competing teams believe when the only perspective that gets remembered is what the community decides. In 3 years, when someone looks up who cleared FRU first, they will see Kindred's name.
Not entirely true, you can recognize the accomplishment using certain caveats. In this case GRIND would be considered the first modded clear of the ultimate, and Kindred would be considered the first streamer team clear of the ultimate. Much like what the Speed running community does to categorize the accomplishment the runners and let people value which accomplishment is more valuable. I know which I value more.
@@Quantum205 this is true, 100%. In fact, if squeenix wasn’t so uptight about mods then we could actually embrace the different categories. However, since they are, most people aren’t going to care about the “modded first clear” accomplishment. It just is what it is
sometimes xenos is the perfect example of "just put the fries in the bag"
Waitin for someone to be like: "Imma start my own world first race! With blackjack! And hookers!"
There is a way to regulate a race, but like Xeno said, it would be a closed race hosted by MogTalk.
These players would login into a specifically made virtual machine that has the game. This instance can be vetted to be mod free, and it can (and should) be monitored and streamed by the owner of the server providing all the virtual machines for the participants. Thus, you can guarantee the integrity of the race.
The key sticking point here is the willingness of players to participate, and the community to accept such a highly regulated setup.
While making the rules is perfectly in Frosty's rights and I do understand him, none of this would happen if SE wasn't so bad at enforcing their own.
I wonder if this ends up changing anything for the game (probably not) and if ironically the WF team would be better than the company at rules management.
But in the end I'm just a spectator here, grabbing my pop corn and enjoying the show LOL
In order to enforce their rules they're going to need to make them worth obeying at this point. Let's take away all mods that by like...being truthful they are cheating. Get rid of cactbot, get rid of splatoon, get rid of anything that basically plays the game for you, and then also disregard purely cosmetic mods too. Some of the most commonly used mods in raiding otherwise are QoL stuff, stuff that people wouldn't use if...y'know...FF14 didn't have the shitty server backend of 2004 WoW in 2024, shit like XIVAlexander and NoClippy wouldn't need to be a thing if they actually fixed the backend like WoW amazingly managed to do at the same time FF14 1.0 was out...ON A MODIFIED WC3 RTS ENGINE THAT THEY STILL USE. Of course there's other stuff like buying an ultrawide being a literal pay to win advantage of seeing more on the screen than other people.
tl:dr if Square ever starts complaining about it...they better stop using our damn sub money to fund their dumb NFT crypto adventures and other dumb shit and actually invest in their money maker more than a new MSQ every 2 1/2 years.
FWIW I basically don't use...anything other than ACT while raiding so tomestone prowlers don't come prowling to boot because I didn't upload a log to prove I'm at a prog point, I just understand why certain mods exist so people can actually play the game.
you like many others forget that SE operates in their country's law setup, so there are many issues on that too regardless, and second the amount of tools people have been using end up looking like they want an AI to play instead of playing the game by this point
@@KainArkanosyour argument is pretty irrelevant when console is a thing. If you can play on console, you don’t need XIValexander to play. You’re confusing needs with wants.
i know that breaking the ToS is not cheating, but not for the japanese sadly. because of an incident where someone modded their console for cheathing at a fighting game competition, they made a law that bans all mods for any games and consoles that are made in japan. so every game and console companies in japan has to follow the law, and has to state publicly that modding = cheating. it's so stupid
this happened with capcom too on monster hunter, they had to state mods = cheats. otherwise their company will get sued and potentially closed.
frosty is doing the same what SE does - implementing rules that he has no way to actually make sure anyone follows.
SPREAD
This is such a tightrope issue. They want PC players to be able to use addons at their own discretion with the unspoken rule that they should never get caught. But if they decide to crackdown on all addon users, you'll have a similar crowd of people who will be angry that they are being punished because of the irresponsible actions of a few. Even if they tell people not to do it, it doesn't matter, people will always do it. It's a lose lose situation no matter what. It's either they accept that they will break ToS to clear, stop holding races altogether/recognizing first world clears, or fly out competing teams to a specific stage with PS5s set up by the event organizers where they can monitor this. I think...those competing in the races should just learn how to not get caught breaking ToS. That's what I think. There's no way to completely stop this no matter what is done save installing an anticheat into the game and affecting even normal people with harmless things like chat bubbles or filters.. This only matters though if SE decides whether or not they no longer want to make ultimates if they feel like there's no point in putting in all that work to make challenging content that people can clear without extra help if people are just gonna cheat anyway lol. Imagine if you spend months and months building a nice race track and you're excited to to see people race on the track only to watch as everyone just pays someone to fly them all the way to the end of the track. But yeah, mirroring what Xeems said. Just don't get caught, stupid.
Best part is... that anticheat is a third party tool 😂
@@VForceWave it's not if they make it themselves
Unfortunate timing since Frosty's already made an updated post lol
I might be wrong here but I don't think ACT has an arsenal of game breaking tools in a race setting right? The callouts aren't there yet because the fight is still being progged. I may be wrong here since I don't use it at all but seems like those functionalities wouldn't be available until later.
Edit: Nevermind I was not aware of how easy it is to set up custom triggers
This ultimate is an anomaly since it was cleared so fast, but a lot of tools like automarkers were available rather quickly still. Usually when it takes more than 4-5 days to clear, everything is up and running.
You're bald so your opinion doesnt really matter.
I'm also bald, so I get it.
My problem with saying cheating first is first, thats like saying the marathin runner who took a taxi to the finish line, lounged a few hours then ran across the finish line won.
Sure, they were first, but it doesn't matter. Nobody considers them first and they lose their medal. Nobody refers fo the blatant cheater as the "real first".
That said, frostys request will never ever work. Outside of asking everyone to stream, which doesn't prove anything anyways, the first two were never going to happen.
The only way would be to force people to stream their actual desktop which would show overlays. And determined cheaters will find a way anyways. The race is unofficial anyways, just whitelist and acknowledge mods people will use that are aok.
Everyone took the taxi. It's the same every world race. You never know what ppl use to prog and then turn off for the clear VOD once they have all the information and strategies polished. Publicly whitelisting mods also poses a risk if Sq.Enix decides to look into it and go on a rampage like they did back in DSR.
@younginbull5837 se knows people are using mods. People stream mods all the time. My point was the idea that the obvious cheating team got first doesnt mean you cant dispute they were first.
I get what you are saying, but the difference between a marathon and uwfr is there are clear rules and they can be enforced. In a race without rules you might es well take a taxi or rocket even. All that counts is get over the finish line.
@@younginbull5837 Yeah exactly, you never know so how do we know that teams used anything beyond ACT? That's right we don't. The "everyone cheats anyway" mentality is why JP got caught cheating for 2nd UWR in a row.
We will never know which teams (that didn't already get caught) cheated and which didn't. We'll never know how much the cheating teams cheated. But just automatically assuming every streaming team cheated (beyond ACT logs) is ridiculous and if that's the mentality community has, there's no point in world racing, is there.
Hey everyone,
this is going to be fairly long,
I have decided to wear green shirt today.
This may not be the answer most people wanted, but it’s the answer I feel is right.
-noone
Green shirt good
Basically there will be "actual world first" and "Mogtalk world first" - there's a possibility they will overlap, but its not guaranteed (and depending on uploads, possibly "FFLogs World First")
The main reason I quit WoW was because I was sick of the addon scene, and how prevalent it was in the game, community, and development philosophy. A big part of the appeal of FF14 was that from the outside looking in, it looked like it was different. And it was, but the only difference was the company policy on it. Under the surface, the community is the exact same.
If people enjoy the game and the raids, then go for it. Just because people are cheating doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. But the idea that there's any value in a world first race with zero integrity is kind of a joke, and chasing achievements in online multiplayer games is a waste of time.
dont play mmos. Mmos require plugins to play.
@glimoreganajai2206 Yeah, that's the decision I came to. I haven't logged on to an MMO since the end of July. Which is a shame because there are parts of these games I like. But it's not worth it anymore.
@@glimoreganajai2206 just cleared FRU on PS5, no plugins used. Git Gud
@@glimoreganajai2206as a console player i disagree.. u can play the game without mods
@@ramza1902 you can also play it as amputee or color blind, doesnt mean everyone should have that experience.
This is like telling Pokemon players to not use 3rd party programs to generate their teams. It's never going to happen.
wait what? people use addons to generate teams? wow they must be absolute losers at the game if they can't even make a good team themselves.
tbf Pokemon has also cracked down hard on that and has made it harder to actually have illegal mons to get bypassed.
Pokemon actually listened to the playerbases' complaints about team grind and made it super easy to make a competitive team nowadays, there's items to change nature, max IVs and EVs. So there's no more reason to cheat.
@wight4991 It's not about "making a good team themselves"
It's getting the stats they need to be able to use them competively in tournaments.
It's about time investment.
Spending 6hrs compared to spending 2hrs because of luck is not skill.
That being said, S/V made this grind a lot shorter and reasonable.
@@maybayV2 still no way to lower IVs though :(
Ain't no way the top teams wouldn't be logging.
Personal the RWF has basically become just a time to wait for whatever meme about 3rd party come about given its happen three times in a row.
At this point, if you want a "clean" race, you going to have to force people on to PS5s just to be sure, and PCs players would roit about having to play on a weaker system just to not to be assumed to be cheating.
I just hope people who do Ult fight, don't every get the shaft due to the memes and keep getting content for them.
I'd say just demand people stream it. I had a guy who was upset with me when I said that Yoshi-P doesn't have the balls to actually enforce this stuff (let's be real, players have heavily abused his kindness and continued to push the envelope).
The reason why players are up in arms over the streaming rule (in my opinion) is because they know they're running some 3rd party tools and will be exposed for not being good at raiding possibly. The most common "reason" I see is that it gives away the strategy but who tf is gonna be able to stream snipe a strategy mid fight in content that's extraordinarily chaotic? Unless they got the Flash on their team, I don't see that happening
@@chelsthegameruiner8669people arent up in arms over the streaming rule. Its mostly a pointless rule because it will change nothing at all, youre adding a rule that will make 0 impact. Hiding the plug ins takes 0, and i do mean 0 effort which is proved by Xeno in this very video. Its literally just the click of a button since everything is an overlay or you can focus only XIV sounds. You can also hide the dalamud menu from the ESC menu through other means so no one will know that you have dalamud installed. Streaming also takes a considerable amount of resources to stream while keeping consistent perfomance on XIV and not everyone has a PC capable of running that.
Edi: We also literally saw other stream teams use Kindreds strats in FRU. It also takes almost no effort to just change how you're doing a mech to get a one up on the competition.
I've always thought it was weird how normal behavior in other MMOs like wow is considered "cheating" and a bannable offense. It's clearly done because of the stupid console version. Personally, I think PS5 players should deal with it or get a PC.
Cheating is Cheating, like it or not, and no it's not black and white like the silly argument of semantics everyone uses, it's VERY different using ACT to upload logs and having zoomhack, pixelperfect addons or Cactbot automated callouts, even if the argument is "it's the same as having a player doing callouts" it's not, a machine doesn't make mistakes. Stop with the void arguments about cheating and just don't cheat.
Realistically speaking, the only way to not be breaking tos when doing the raids would be on console without discord. Not gonna happen.
What plugins do you recommend?
He tweeted out a plugin tier list.
@@SekiYuriFFXIV I dont use twitter, could you send a link?
Want a legit world first race? Arrange a way to qualify teams to the race, then fly them to Japan and have them prog the fight using PS5/PC systems at Square Enix headquarters (let them bring their keyboards and mouses if they want to). Anything else wouldn't be legit.
This is the real solution. But SE is too stupid/too stingy to do it
Smart enough people can hide cheating software into mouse firmwares , it's something that has been done in competitive FPS
@@matzck9674 generally those things include an aimbot of sorts, good luck sneaking something that hooks directly into the game that way.
Also, they would live and someone would be monitoring the teams at all times, in person, unless you have a hot switch, you're not hiding it that easily.
Also, if something like cactbot would be able to be snuck on board, SE could easily just hook into the system audio, which then proudly makes it audible, they could even make it be remote so the person in question couldn't just hot switch it off when someone comes by.
@@kman6004 Look they can't afford to make FFXIV better. They gotta channel all their money into NFT crypto games and a bunch of crappy remakes that fail to make the money they're looking for.
that would defeat the world race aspect, then it would just become squeenix teams race lol
Without an anti cheat in the game, or even just a way to opt into an anti cheat specifically for the race, there is no way to enforce the world race as "cheat" free
I disagree with your baldness
Only way to have a legitimate world first race would be for SE to create an anti-cheat and to police addons, which I think is never going to happen. Plus they’d probably lose half their playerbase (erp’ers with all the body mods). Until that happens, you can’t consider it to be legitimate.
You're right, it won't happen b/c that requires them going inside your computer which they aren't going to do and NO ONE should want.
yeah but wow and league have anti cheat things installed on your PC and many people play these games anyway? 🤷🏻♀️
@@Aegea291 The difference is that there's laws surrounding this. IIRC in Japan specifically; they can't just create an anti-cheat right now because it's something that is intrusive and it's considered illegal and deceptive especially if it's a feature that wasn't stated outright to be included with the release of the initial product (Base FFXIV). Also you do realize that despite WoW and League having anti-cheats, there's still a lot of cheaters right? Having an anti-cheat won't just magically make all of the 3rd party stuff go away. People WILL find a way to get through it and the only ones that won't appear are the ones who put in no effort to use 3rd party tools.
@@Aegea291 anti cheat/cheating detection software is illegal in japan tho
@@reirei6309 source? what about vanguard in val jp, or eac in elden ring? i cant find the specific law that says anti cheat is illegal
We remember the zoom hacks and we'll remember the red dot, they won the race and lost the place but they won in being remembered
@@samwilkinson9309 nope! In years from now when people check the records it will not show their name. They will not be remembered.
@@kman6004They still have worlds first on most leaderboards they will be remembered. More likely we forget frostys shit leaderboard.
@ can you find a SINGLE example of a leaderboard that shows GRIND on top? Every single one I have found shows kindred at the top. I think you’re wrong, dude. Most people will forget about GRIND
@@kman6004 The FFXIV lodestone says they we're first to get title and achievement, and Kindred the team that got 1st on Mogtalk is saying they we're 2nd and GRIND earned it.
@@kreizytaxi Where does the Lodestone say this? I don't see it in their news section. If you're saying that you have to go digging through player's profiles, that's not realistic. People in the future who look to see who cleared first are going to look for a leaderboard or some kind of similar graphic. I have yet to see one that shows GRIND at the top. Have you?
I've been playing on console since 2.0, really. Sometimes I wonder if playing on PC would have helped or hurt me. I still have that magical trophy of clearing an ultimate hanging above my head, and the fact that I have to do it for real I think is a big part of why I'm still here. I love this game
Ya you have to do it for real so did the other 7 in there with you. Addons or not. It's great you cleared but even if they did clear with shit on their screen you don't have doesn't necessarily invalidates their clear cause then in a way it invalidates your clear cause you benefitted from them not fucking up in content that woulda made it so you count clear body checks in ultimates.
@@petree i didn't clear, I didn't say i cleared. READ
I honestly don't care if the other 7 people cheat, I found happiness in how I've cleared myself. Also I have a personal rule of never using a tool that I feel will hinder my ability to play without it. So on patch day I feel comfortable jumping into content without having to wait for tools to come back lol
As time has gone on and I've cleared more ultimates though, I've learned a lot about what tools people are using and yeah there's some crazy ones 😂 They are playing a totally different game
Simple solution:
World first requires every member to clear on a PS5/Xbox and you provide the timestamped achievement from PSN/Xbox Live as your proof of clear, and they all need to match the time of the clear vod.
They can't complain about controller either since (at least on PS) they have mouse and keyboard support
Sure ... playing on a machine who can't handle the game properly and with something as innapropriate as a controller to make precise actions.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure ...
@@Warcraft_Traveleryou either have only played/seen the game running on last gen hardware or don't know what you're talking about
Current gen has stable framerate within duties and say what you will about controller but the game was designed with it in mind, but regardless you can use a mouse and keyboard if you so choose
Idk if you know but act can be used with console if you know what you are doing so this still does not work.
This basically means to be a world 1st raider costs a one time payment of like 700$ which is stupid
Maybe now those recources can be used to make the rest of the game fun since raiders willingly chose to kill ultimates
I absolutely love raiding without tools outside of just seeing the dps meter in act, anything else is just too much for me imo because I'm here to challenge myself with the content, not cheat even with simple call out commands. World first is just a different beast, as it's a competition, with the challenge of the fight and figuring out strats to resolve them. However they do it, it doesn't matter to me because that strat will be used in pf, or a static party I'm in will homebrew some jank shit. World first is a competition, just so they can clear first. Third party tools like act are borderline needed just for mathing out dps checks, i can get that. But act has so much utility it's an insane tool if you know how to use it. It's just crazy how we're STILL having this debate, but I personally think the world first should just go to whoever, mainly because world first means just that, even if I hate using those tools.
I still want a shield bar on the solo player hp bar, give a blue line and number showing how big hp the shield has, i know the orange bar in party, but if im solo I wanna see did I get 7k or 14k shields :c
Was very surprised it wasnt indicated in the hp below the hotbar (when you start fresh, I do know a lot of people have moved hotbar to the side etc.)
I know he's already responded and I'm gonna watch that video next but one hundo percent not having logs is a net negative. Logs are such a good tool for finding actual cheaters. Now to hop over to the response and see what changed
IIRC after the TOP race space station drama, Frosty said he would only recognise a streamed world first clear. So I am assuming he will forget what he wrote here next ultimate and we will have the exact same conversation forever. Or at least until combat logs are added to the game.
So everyone seems to be on the boat that cheating is impossible to police and that there will never be a fair World Race. In that case if no one is willing to follow TOS and get caught repeatedly for "cheating" then maybe they will decide to not make such content. Yoshi-p has definitly been dissapointed but if this continues and no one is willing to bite the bullet and not break TOS then I guess we have to hope the hype for this content is too great and that they won't be able to stop making it. If you do World Race and have mods be ready to possibly have your clear revoked, that's how it is always going to be.
he was already saying that he will stop making this type of content, if people refuse to play by the rules after the last race, but the community convinced him to make the next one, so maybe this was the straw that broke the camels back for him, because the same players that begged him to not abbandon making ultimates for them, also just stabbed him in the back again the second the new ultimate got released.
Yeah to me this basically boils down to having a stream world first competition, and then separately there would *just be* a world first to fflogs. It may be the case that a log gets uploaded before any of the streamers complete it. Whoever cares super strongly about cheating can choose to ignore it. And people can similarly note that the stream world first may, in fact, contain cheaters. If they get caught? Disqualified, fine.
I will say that if an off-stream group is secretly spending a bunch of their time crafting perfect cactbot triggers in discord, the stream world first competition may disincentivize THAT at least. They could do it in their off-time when not streaming, but if it was possible that they're spending a significant amount of time doing that, maybe the streamed WF helps.
But yeah either way everyone has different standards about what they want to "acknowledge"; some will 'respect' the group who uploads first to fflogs regardless of whatever plugins they're using, some will respect the group that clears it first on stream, etc. A "world first on stream and there's no EVIDENCE of third party assistance" seems at least to be a way for people to categorize raid groups into a bucket where there is SOME plausible deniability that they 'cheated'. If that helps their consciousness about who they worthlessly deem to be the "TRUE WORLD FIRST!!"
At the end of the day I'm all about 'fair play' and competitive integrity if there is a competition. What it seems like people forget about this, however, is that the rules of any 'competition' are ultimately COMPLETELY ARBITRARY. The only reason we have any of this tension is because the majority of the (western) raiding community clearly wants to participate in a DIFFERENT COMPETITION than whatever crazy restrictions exist in JP or to get Yoshi's blessing. If the majority of the other participants in this 'competition' were truly playing legit it'd be one thing. But because most other ultimate groups also use plugins, I don't really feel like any of those participants MIND other groups using plugins.
It's this stupid need for this "global blessed world first by YOSHI-P, who sets completely different rules then what we actually want to follow" that causes all of the consternation. We can make our own rules as a community and stop trying to seek validation from SE or casuals who don't even raid and yet have strong opinions about competitive integrity. The competitors for an agreed upon ruleset should always be the ONLY ones who decide what the winning criteria and competitive integrity mean. Let's stop getting caught up in this stupid game where we're trying to synchronize all of the various perspectives to find a global, immutable definition of "TRUE world first"; it's a waste of time.
JP can have their stupid ruleset where they don't even upload a log (because if they did, it would mean the run was CHEATED!!!!) and the only proof of it is the title/glam in game (because OBS or a physical camera over one the players shoulders would be a third party tool!!!). Certainly nobody will cheat then, right???
I'll add that the personal standard I'd be interested in is: Whoever uploads the first clear to fflogs is the 'world first' in my book. Plugins allowed, whatever. Done. I'd be happy to separately acknowledge a "stream world first" too as a group who *may have* had a harder fight due to commitment to not use plugins. If they get caught, cool, they're disqualified and the first group who does not get caught wins that competition.
I actually funnily enough don't give a shit about JP's ruleset. It's easier to 'cheat' than fflogs OR streamed. I have absolutely no faith in the competitive integrity of that competition, LOL. At least there's a CHANCE that winners of the fflogs / stream competitions were done within the defined rules. Yoshi's rules are so fucking stupid that it's almost impossible NOT To cheat.
The truth of the matter is not a single thing Frosty is making a rule will matter nor will it do anything. Xeno is right though, Grind won world first, by every definition they cleared first that's what it means so he can remove them from his leaderboards, but that doesn't mean the fight is now uncleared again. It's been done and that doesn't go away. Anyone not paying attention to the leaderboards or doesnt' even know this stuff exists shouldn't be excluded from the community's world first title just because they didn't know of some artificial rules that guess what, can't be controlled. Ik Xeems said all this but yeah, can't be enforced, all this means is don't get caught, but even then people need to stop taking these leaderboards as gospel, there are no official leaderboards and only the clears Frosty deems acceptable are put up so, tons of people aren't even up there just cause of one persons opinion on the race. That doesn't make sense this should be the communities choice. i don't raid so idk why but I dont' think we should be putting it all on one guy. I have no hate for him btw, I just don't think he should be put in the center, he clearly wasn't wanting to be and is now stuck here and unfortunately can't do much about it. He wants to log people to verfify their runs but it's illegal to log that doesn't make sense
In a world first situation act's extra features don't even work and same with splatoon probably didn't even have a working script unless world first riaders had time to datamine the fight while raiding (which is what happens) although this dot looks suspiciously like the dot from PTOM which just shows you who is targetting you which explains why its in the middle of the screen
Basically the raid community (especially the hardcore part) is a joke, and they seem content with that, which means there's no reason to ever take anyone's claim of "skill" seriously because they can't prove they didn't cheat because it's no longer suspected, it's assumed.
Now comes the part where we see what Square-Enix does about it, given they've threatened the idea of not making any more Ultimates on the basis of "why bother" if this is how the content is treated. Alternately, Square-Enix may introduce their own cheats (which they've done with other Final Fantasy games) and any actual difficulty will become "optional" because that's what the playerbase clearly wants.
Turns out that in the end, the modbeasts weren't just hiding in the "Other" tab, and the next time Square-Enix simplifies something, it can't be wholly blamed on casuals.
dude most raiders dont use splatoon that leads u into safe spots, they use red dot because jobs like dragoon have jumpy animations and u literally cannot see where exactly u standing because your legs are never on ground.
its mostly QOL stuff. You may see zoom hack as cheat, but is it really if u can set your resolution to widescreen via GPU driver and have same result?
Hardcore raids arent dificult, they are time consuming. U likely gaslighted yourself into thinking videogame where all u do is stack/spread/dodge cleave is dificult.
@@glimoreganajai2206 Nah, it's just that constantly, for years, we've heard the hardcore crowd talk about how "skilled" they are, complain that other people aren't as "skilled", that the game is "too easy" or that casuals are "ruining" the game due to the belief that they're the crowd that Square-Enix keeps simplifying jobs for. When in reality the hardcore crowd can't do anything without a crutch, that the reason mosy people do worse than them is because they're not being boosted, that of course something is going to seem like breezy content when you cheat through all of it (because I doubt they're only doing this on Ultimate), and that the hardcore is actually the one that SE has to keep chewing their food for because they choke and cry to the point they need a red dot to teach them how to function. If anyone gaslighted themselves, it was the hardcore players thinking they were actually good, and they prove it every time the supposed "best" get caught like this, and we've reached "mandatory addon" levels like World of Warcraft if this is what the raiding scene has turned into (or rather, what it always was but kept living in denial.)
@@Dyxid i mean using tools or not ultimates require u to be skilled, people have to know how snapshots work, people know how their mits function, they alternate their combo based on amount of enemies and do proper rotation looping.
Claiming hardcore raiders are cheaters and their achievments doesnt matter because of red dot.... idk man, its aint that helpfull, maybe helps u to spread out in aoe 2 metter wide, but its not gamebreaker.
like ye theres splatoon, but people with zoomhacks, red dot, jobbars i dont consider as cheating at all, this stuff should be in core game.
@@Dyxid same goes for automarker, that drama keeps me laughting because people talk like as if automarker makes u automatically clear, it doesnt, it only assigns u certain role in fight, and u should know what to do if u get bind 1 marker.
It requires less communication sure, but u still gotta know and understand what u doing in fight to clear, its basically replacement for voice comms of some sort.
@@glimoreganajai2206 Sorry, but no, the hardcore crowd doesn't get to "roid-up" to win a race and then pretend like they could have won without it (otherwise they would have), or how listing off a bunch more mods just goes to show how dependent hardcore players are they if they can't manage without everything little thing being done for them like that. So if the cheating "doesn't matter" than neither do their accomplishments, and now they get the added bonus of knowing that they're part of why the game keeps getting "dumbed down" because clearly it's been too much for them. The next time one of them loads up ACT or its other assistance functions, they can thank themselves for things like VPR getting changed less than a month later, because maintaining a debuff really was as hard for them as the casuals they mocked, and Square-Enix's decision was to accommodate both.
I think any form of competition in the game like world firstor speedkill will never work for ff14 unless square enix decide to put an anti cheat for the game.
Like it's pretty sad that we all know for sure that every top team doing these thing cheat (and not just using act to log level of cheat).
only care whos first -shrug- even if they got caught they still did it. unless the team is auto-botting gg to them.
As someone who has played WoW for roughly 20 years and FFXIV since HW, I am of the mind that world first races should be COMPLETELY community driven with zero endorsing of game developers. It gets exhausting having encounter/class balance being dictated by these players when a season first come out. Not saying FFXIV would follow that model, but it's also not a great box to open just in case, either.
Remember: If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning!
Just get good at hiding the cheats, turn your stream into a Destiny 2 worlds first lmaoo
When this drama 1st happened, my 1st suggestion was just making two categories like Xenos suggested. Stream and Non-stream. Have the Stream teams agree to only using x/y/z addons, and if they use anything else disqualify them.
For Non-streams, just have them verified like you would a speedrun. No one is going to care about the non-streams when it comes to RWF, no one cares about Non-streams.
SPREAD.
What state do you live in? 'cause that's the first time I've heard that a clause in a ToS with a job could prevent you from collecting unemployment if you're let go for any reason.
It usually comes down to the reason you were terminated. If it was for egregious behavior - blatant, illegal acts; knowingly and deliberately breaking company TOS, etc - you can be refused.
Otherwise, in the vast majority of cases, the state will grant you unemployment insurance.
And, it looks bad for the company if they're trying to refuse it no matter what, because they're basically denying you a way to pay bills, buy food, etc.
Yeah...there's definitely a tough time for describing the meaning of cheating in this game nowadays. Honestly, I do truly think it's impressive that people can be total purists to the game and still manage to clear difficult content such as this. It takes a lot of discipline and integrity to not lean on those programs just because "everyone's using them". There needs to be a clearer line, clearer rules to state what is clearly a matter of describing what is against TOS; and what is for all intents and purposes "cheating". And I'll be honest, I don't know what that answer should be, but it should be found.
I have a lot of respect for the people that do it as the game intended. I also respect the people that feel they need to have those tools to help them get the clear. It's their game, they're gonna play how they're gonna play. But in the end, it's also gonna be SE's call in regards to the WR. If they continue to let it happen, at the very least for WR, it's just gonna reflect that they're being hypocritical of people that use mods and get caught using them for any difficult content. So instead of getting mad at frosty or GRIND, we need to take the issue directly to SE and get the final answer. Get the rules endorsed, figure out what's gonna work and where, and figure out the best way for everyone involved to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be, instead of being left in such a grey area.
Depends on if they were using pixel perfect or avarice.
how does fflogs work? does it need ACT?
ACT is how you compile the data to upload to fflogs in the first place. Without ACT (or some other substitute program doing something similar) you would have no logs. No one is actually going to manually calculate dps using a calculator as was the example YoshiP gave himself.
Why can’t people just accept everyone is cheating lol
i get the sense that frosty/others want the xiv race to be *more* and to be acknowledged officially by SE, so parroting their rules makes sense even if it ends up being contradictory in practice and everyone knows it’s not something that can be followed. ultimately, the “winner” is whoever the community collectively decides to acknowledge, so if everyone decides that playing from the moon is cool then it’s fine-they’re first. otherwise, they might as well being telling everyone they have an uncle that works at nintendo, because if the community doesn’t acknowledge you then it’s Joever™.
also people do this every time, but every plugin for this game is cheating no matter what it does. it can give you H cup boobs, or make your minimap into a hexagon. it’s all cheating-you have an advantage in whatever it is you’re doing in the game. it’s easier to RP your dommy mommy when your wol has mommy milkers you can visibly see. you play better in pvp with the odd shaped map because it just makes you happier. trying to do olympic gymnastics to justify why *your* mods “aren’t cheating, actually” just demonstrates that you don’t care about “cheating” you only care about people playing the game the way you think they should.
in any event sponsored by square you would have to ban ACT and any latency mods; but this wasn't sponsored by square.
Agree 100% Put a DPS meter in Ultimates only? Encrypt the packets?
Can work
There is currently no mod nor third party for PS5 right now. However, who is to say it can't and will never happen. Even if the community sets up a PS5-only race, as long as there is enough of an incentives, I'm sure someone will figure out a way to run the addons. Even if we go to the extent of banning every in-game addons including logs or even discord, people will probably "cheat within the rules" in other ways, like doing callouts with phone conferences or playing in person. The only people who will never cheat are people who don't want to win enough. I think Frosty and the community should just stop trying to make it an "official world first" and "SE/developers approved race". Just be honest and call it the "Streamer/Community race" or "MogTalk race".
If there was a program that literally only scans combatlog and nothing else and FFlogs could differentiate between ACT and this program. Then have a rule that only that could be used.
Okay lets split it up
There is a "First" but there is the race, which is separate.
It doesnt matter if you kiled first. If you didnt participate in the race you didnt win.
Just as the fastest runner doesnt win my school competition just because he is faster. He didnt participate so he didnt win
I hate this intellectual dishonesty about the addons.
Frosty made the right and the only possible call.
Everyone cheats and nobody gives a fuck about mog talk.
Is that why he immediately changed his wording the next day? Because he was so right and impossibly correct? LOL. Frosty just causing more drama honestly by not saying it like it is and blaming SE for being absurdly archaic.
I feel like a lot of people miss the purpose behind SE’s stance or simply don’t know better. It’s quite literally against the law there to modify software in any capacity so obviously Yoshi and the corp must follow suit. Players are extremely lucky they don’t clamp down as they “should” (per their law) as many wouldn’t be able to play otherwise. (May that be because they are just bad or their latency makes it impossible to run content) this is why you get things that later appear as features in the game but they can only go so far. SE does their best to turn a blind eye but have their hands forced when it’s pushed in their face. Grind 100% won this race and the hypocrisy of them cheating while the others are shown on FFlogs is simply asinine. 😂
28:00 there saved u 28 mins ur welcome viewers this is all xenos had to say..
This whole situation is 100% SE's fault. They should either implement anti cheat, get rid off third party launcher and actively police addon users.
Or allow addons in their own launcher and just hire someone to filter through them all ? Like yes, this addon is banned and this one is not. Create their own list.
Staying in this weird grey area where they are not allowed but only police players when they snitch on themselves is just ridiculous.
Thats never gonna happen now if it does happen say good bye the the millions of players who has it now keep also in mind that YOSHI P himself has act
@@ragnacrashfever6460 I'm saying what should happen. I don't believe they will do anything. Staying in grey zone doesn't cost anything other than reputation that SE barely has
there should be categories of races tool assisted and regular just like there are such for speed running
Frosty's living in a pipe dream. There is no way this gets a sponsor, and to get everyone to do this in consensus. Just let it go man.
It’s like steroids in baseball. It’s happened, happening and will happen.
who gives a fuck about which team kills a boss first, it's the race that's fun, the discovery of the fight and the diverse strat found by the teams, not the outcome.
Okay I have a solution to the modding problem, because we know why FFXIV won't go on a banhammer shotgun spree against everyone with mods:
The reason is over 90% of their player base uses mods in some form or another and if they did, their game would effectively die. And doing this would be them shooting the goose that lays the golden eggs.
The solution goes as such:
1. It would have to be known if it is necessary or not to have anything in the ToS of a game mentioning that Mods are against ToS. I had heard that it's a law in Japan that their online games can't be modded. However, I have not heard anything in specific if it's necessary BY LAW for a games ToS to mention that people aren't allowed to mod.
2. If it's not necessary BY LAW to mention mods in any fashion in the ToS of a japanese game, then FFXIV can get around this by technicality and just remove the section of their ToS that mentions mods at all.
3. In this way, removing the mention of mods in their game from the ToS they're essentially making it not a bannable offense to use mods. Boom, you've just gotten around the illegality of mods by simple TECHNICALITY.
Now they no longer need to say it's outright illegal/against the rules/whatever in their game and they can just ACCEPT the modding community altogether.
Honestly? It would help them if they did this. Do you know how much this helps WoW players because blizzard just allows them to mod the game freely? Their game is STILL SURVIVING despite all of their bullshit, and I think it's mainly because of roleplayers and the modding community working their asses overtime in place of the actual game devs.
Pride, charity, money. I'm not saying everyone cheats, what I'm saying is cheaters are everywhere, even the Olympics
They get banned when caught at the olympics.
"live in a world where no dabate ln what is cheating and what ain't" but in the begining he says people buying ultra wide screen is consider cheating 😂 there will always be a debate about cheating only every participant is in a room together with all the exact same equiment
Vanilla World first and Assisted World first.
Two categories and you can only claim 1.
Waiting for someone from SE to see this video and ban you for admitting to cheating by showing custom triggers inside your act. Even if they close eyes on parse, custom triggers are blank by default, so it means that you used them in the past or still are using them. But at same time if they would ban you, they should ban half of game population.
I had a thought.
Is it cheating when two player play the same character?
Like, I did this for fun with my GF once.
She had a controller for the movement and I just pressed my rotation.
Worked great and i didnt had to think about anything other then my rotation and mitigation.
Square's actual stance on addons is obviously moronic (and yoship knows this as he has existed in raid scenes and knows tools like ACT exist for a reason). The law is not always right, and shouldn't be used as a strictly moral guideline. It's up to the actual world first players to decide amongst themselves what they want to be acceptable in their community challenge, and what should cause social ostracisation. Just like casual players think that some plugins should exist in the game (text bubbles) some competitive players are of the same mind. If it appeals to the spirit of the game, then it should be in.
XIVALEX/Noclippy should just be in the game, this is not a hot take. The poor implementation of networking that essentially reads double your ping for animation locks is just bad design that fucks over people with bad connection. Pixel Perfect is a harder sell but I'd still agree on it. In a game all about dodging aoes, you'd probably want to know where your character _actually is_ in 14's increasing visual clutter. It sucks that if you want to be optimal, playing lala in less flowy outfits is the way to go as it's the easiest to sus out where you're actually standing. This is increasingly relevant as attack animations have gotten more flashy to the point of your character simply disappearing all together as they warp around (viper).
I'd personally not go much farther past that point and stand firmly against any plugin that actively solves a mechanic for you (act/cact callouts, splatoon, ect) but ultimately it's up to the people actually doing the content.
I do not care about square's definition of cheating. They're not the ones running the tournament, and any attempted 'official' tournament is forced to follow their stance on modding which the community OBVIOUSLY disagrees with as this game's modding scene is massive. I do not care about the opinion of people who will never touch the content.
GAMs utterly unable of not acting like children for 10 minutes (Ultimate) : episode 537.
If people can not uphold an honor system , then square should just refocus the dev team for these fights to do lateral content. If they cant stop cheating then dont give them anything to cheat on.
Every content is one to cheat on. Freaking Cact Pot has literal auto solvers that tell you which balls to select for the highest chance of winning. That's Golden Saucer stuff, the most casual of casual content. Stop making Ultimates? People will just cheat in Savage (which they probably do already). Stop making Savage? People will just cheat in Extreme. You can cheat in every piece of content in the game. Whether or not people actually cheat is a different story but you're asking them to not make any content.
The worst part is that the rules themselves are contradictory. Because of how SE just straight up refuses to be more specific about what constitutes unfair third party tools, streaming and recording itself, strictly by the letter of SE's ToS, is also against ToS. Ironically even moreso than sims. If you want to follow ToS strictly as it is written, you must not have any other programs open at all. No discord, no recording, no streaming, even using your web browser to look up a guide is technically using a third party program. All of this is on SE.
No one thinks streaming is ToS.
You know full well what their ToS means in regards to addons and plug ins.
@@massPanic22 Sure, we might know what they mean, but legally their ToS doesn't define that. They don't specify, so at any moment they could say that OBS or Discord or even third party controllers are against ToS and be correct. That's the point, they refuse to specify and just kind of operate on a 'you get what we mean' policy which is simply not good enough.
@harukun ye that why I think they should just ban everyone for anything.
Atleast then it would be super clear to you all what they mean.
Honestly I never thought people would try and argue this point.
Like seriously.
@@massPanic22 This exact reason is the why it's imperative why they define what constitutes cheating. It could be as simple as 'modifications that directly alter game files or alter game data being sent to the servers.' and that's infinitely more clear. You can't have a system where it's so ill defined that you can ban literally your entire PC playerbase.
"Don't get caught" was always the SE policy, so it makes perfect sense to be the community policy as well. The mods may improve the gameplay experience, but the existence of mods in general makes the game substantially worse. The mods shouldn't exist; the game should just be fixed such that no one feels like those mods are necessary.
The two most pressing issues (that will probably never happen) is for SE to add an official way of exporting logs AND to fix their dogshit netcode, so the slightest latency/jitter doesn't completely mess up the gameplay. The former is easy, but they don't really want to do it, and the latter is difficult, and they don't give enough of a crap about it, hence it ain't gonna happen.
SE caring more about PvP than PvE racing is absolutely insane. XIV PvP (much like most MMORPGs) is boring rubbish that no one cares about.
Honestly I stopped caring about world clears, at the end of the day they don't mean anything of value. You still get the same loot drops as someone who cleared world first and someone who clears it 3 months later. World Prog is just an adrenaline rush really for those that do it.
Honestly, SE needs to stop having a stick up their butt about plugins. They clearly don't wish to spend the resource on the game to include the kinds of things even basic QoL plugins can do like NoClippy. So either support them in some official capacity like WoW does or spend money and implement themselves. People are not going to give up logs, no clippy, minor ui/fixes, and other such things. So call us all cheaters but I don't think I've met one PC player who doesn't use at least one plugin to do some kind of QoL fix.
This is just so stupid all because SE isn't supporting the world first race. Plugins wouldn't even be a problem if SE just made it a sanctioned event, and it's not like there isn't an audience for the world first race, there very obviously is. If you make a stage and invite people like the way Blizzard does the MDI, those people have to use SE's machines without plugins.
need a cheat that makes xeno not bald xdd
Let this be a lesson to people who use mods: Use your OBS capture tool to take screenshots, not snipping tools. There's an option in that program that says "hide 3rd party program or SLI interaction tools. Basically: mod manager and the tools that the mod managers interact with.
I'm pretty sure that the vanilla ff14 f12 screenshot button would do the job too...
@@Kairax some things yes, some things no.
for example, there are some plugins that'll tell you what song is playing, what your ping is (which should be available without needing to use task manager) and what your FPS is without opening your settings constantly, which are added to the text that shows your server/time. (still easily hideable if you truly care)
@@Kairax It doesn't hide UI mods like Materia and/or Frost and cosmetic.
@Emire they got caught over 1 dotted screenshot... that would be enough
@@KairaxNot really since the community views those mods as perfectly fine to have.
KEKW ONE OF THE MEMBER , nobody belives that. i remember something has been said said about ''im not the gamer''
Frosty is right because that's the only position he can take, anyone disagreeing with him is just ignoring that simple fact lmfao
Tell em all to play on ps5 lol
The race is also completely dead content for any group that wishes to blind prog Ultimates or Savage tiers
*asks for harder content, but chooses to cheat" what's the point having harder content if people are just going to cheat to get through it?
I feel like we are in a cycle now where we are heading in the direction of WoW with add-ons at this point.
Frosty thinking he is the instance to even decide over this shit is hillarious to me.
I mean... he is running the current closest thing to an official world's first race. He is kinda in a position to at least try this, and people have asked them to try to add rules to stop this and... got clowned on by the other side for trying.
Not gonna convince an addict that maybe they shouldn't be using.. Xeems & Arthars are rampant with this stuff. But they're pretty good entertainers. xff
Dude. They should just call it the community race, and let it be a competition people enter.
World first is indisputable, mods or no mods, stream or off stream
Make it like speedruns, get TAS category and a normal Category.
World first raiders must be on PS5/PS4 or Pro equivalent. Everyone must stream as well. No mods no anything. Limited tools exist to fix latency issues in the console ver we can allow it since it is basically noclippy but none of the other BS. Bam solved world first raiding /s
man hot take FGC solved this issue a long time ago. Only console players are eligible.
modding your client in any way, or using plugins, should disqualify you, dick mod, fps counter, act, doesnt matter. play the video game the way you were meant to install it, if youre breaking ToS, you dont need to be celebrated. is that enforceable? is that even realistic? probably not, but that should be the precedent set.
I wonder if there is a way for square, with a program or something, to tell if you have mods running and deny queueing for a duty if they are detected.
Square will enjoy the big hit to revenue loss the absolute microsecond that word gets out if something is there like that.
While square does dislike mods for fights, there are other mods that would be on the chopping block first that they hate a lot more (Mostly NSFW ones)
I disagree fully on your take. Addons give an unfair advantage to all pc players since console players cant use them. If an all console team joins the race, they are at an automatic disadvantage because people cheat. Thats not skill, it comes down to pc vs console.