I am going to take Pastor T as my negotiator when I finally decide to settle, he has serious financial skills. He is the kind of person who will eat at a restaurant for free because he'll convince you that you can't put value to the food that enters the temple of the Holy Spirit
Dowry is a reflection of provision as a man and token of appreciation to the wife's parents. You can't take somebody's daughter for free as if you have picked her from the streets. Dowry is not the actual price of a woman. Women are human beings too and therefore they are priceless. Dowry is not slavery has Mr T puts it.
@@nyamburanjengah5797 You sound dumb. Dowry is paid to the bride and her family because it is the woman who carries the foetus and has to deal with all the attendant problems that come with pregnancy ranging from morning sickness, weight gain, stretch marks, breast feeding, sleepless nights. Women died, and continue to die in child birth, sometimes they develop life long health issues eg fistulas. Women depreciate with marriage and pregnancy. Our ancestors appreciated the role that women played and the risks stacked against us, hence the reason why they insisted on dowry to honour the woman and her family! DNA proves that father's DNA is dominant and as such, children belong to the father. Dowry was paid to complete the covenant allowing children to become fully fledged members of their father's clan. Once dowry had been made, if there was divorce or separation a woman was not allowed to leave with her children. By the same token if she was widowed, her husband's family and clain were supposed to help her look after the children. Dowry wa a means of transfering wealth to a woman (cattle and land). African woman tilled the land and as such were able to bring vegetables, grain, fruit, seeds, and nuts to the table. Men, brought meet (from cows or went hunting for game). In this way, our grandmothers learnt to go Dutch way before white women started waffling on about feminism. Women were and are more likely to respect a man who empowers them. An empowered woman is able to provide for her family even if her husband dies or is injured. European societies never valued their women, it is white women who were expected to pay dowry. Even today, when white people get married, it is the bride's father who pays for the wedding. Let me not even start on the Indian brides who torch themselves because of being tortured by the groom's family on account of failure to bring in the desired wealth! Educate yourself before you start making snide comments!
Dowry payment is a very key point in acquiring parental blessings. Dowry wasn't a way to sacrifice to gods but a process of negotiation aimed at enhancing a cordial relationship between the in laws. The aim wasn't to buy the girl to my knowledge. That negotiation process is very important and has worked for me blessings. Let's not demonize the whole process. It depends however on the contents of the process. There are extremes and excesses that we need to be on the lookout for lest we engage in satanic rituals.
Firstly, I'd like to applaud all the Kenyan men who have vouched for the importance of dowry! Well done my brothers for understanding the importance of our culture. Pastor T needs to and do his research on African culture, instead of peddling half baked arguments. Firstly, dowry is *ALIMONY paid in advance*. The dowry (cattle) was split three ways (Dad, mum, bride) In case the marriage broke down (due to the man's fault) a woman would have something to support herself. If it broke down because of her fault, the dowry would have to be refunded! However, if she had given birth, the refund would be re calculated to reflect that. Upon marriage a woman received cattle and LAND to till, therefore *dowry was a way to empower a woman*, so that she could walk through the world with her own things, and even leave her youngest son an inheritance! *Our ancestors decreed that men should pay dowry, because women are the givers of life-* men might contribute the sperm that fertilises the egg, but they don't have to deal with the vagaries of pregnancy. Therefore, dowry was paid by the groom, in order to honour the Bride and her family, for the sacrifices she was going to undertake in extending her husband's lineage and clan. White people and Indians do not respect their women folk in that regard, but our ancestors had the gumption to recognise the contribution that women make in society. Through land ownership (acquired upon marriage), *African women were able to bring something to the table- fruit, vegetables, seeds, and nuts (our grandfathers herded the cattle and hunted game in order to bring meat to the table)* . This arrangement illustrates that our grandmothers knew how to go Dutch, way before white feminists discovered the word. It also passes a damning indictment to slay queens, who traffic in their beauty and eschew hard work, and the men who promote slay queen behaviour. Also, dowry complelled men to respect virginity. *Men respected virginity* because they did not want to impregnate a girl, and end up paying dowry for a woman they did not particularly like or love! Once the dowry amount had been agreed upon, and the dowry handed over (in part or in whole), the elders were supposed to slaughter an animal to seal the covenant, and to *introduce the wife to her husband's ancestors*. Dowry was the gateway to the introduction. Also, the dowry payment meant that any *children borne in ohat marriage effectively belong to the MAN*. If the marriage broke down, the woman was not allowed to leave with the children because dowry had been paid. For example, when NELSON MANDELA divorced his 1st wife Evelyn, he served her with the divorce plus *the last dowry instalment*. In effect, he paid dowry to the children. That is why when he was on Robben Island, his extended family looked after his children! Had he not finished paying the dowry, his children would not have been allowed to bear his surname, nor would his family have been allowed to act for his children during the traditional ceremonies/rites eg circumcision or marriage or death! Likewise when Winnie Mandela died, the Dhlomo clan offered to bury her because although the Mandelas were divorced in civil law, they were not divorced in Customary law!! For divorce to occur in Customary law, the dowry must be refunded in part or in whole (depending on causation), AND an animal must be slaughtered to reverse the contract both in the physical and the spirit world (ancestral realms). Dowry must also be refunded if a widow elects to re-marry!!! It made sense for the man to pay the dowry, because even Science, genetics aka DNA proves that in as much as a child inherits DNA from BOTH parents, the FATHER's DNA is dominant. In essence, *children belong to the father* , however a hand over ceremony must be done before they are born- aka dowry must be paid! If the dowry is not paid, the children cannot carry their father's clan name, and the daughter's will be not dowried! Refusing to pay dowry causes conflict for the children and upheavel in the ancestral realms! If a man impregnates a woman and refuses to marry her, then he must pay damages! Damages, allow the child to be claimed by the paternal side of the family and it prevents upheavel in the ancestral realms. Should such a woman get married by another man, the husband is not expected to pay dowry, because she is damaged goods! If a marriage breaks down, dowry can be refunded (including interest (i.e any calves). A refund can only be requested, if it is proven that the breakdown was caused by the wife! However, if she has produced children, then that will be taken into consideration as a mitigating factor, and the refund will be reduced accordingly. Our ancestors were very progressive, they respected women because they recognised that women are the givers of life, they are the only ones who can enable a man to extend his lineage, his clan and expand his community. White women on the other hand were mules to white men (cue feminism in the 60s...or was it 70s)? They were not allowed to own property. Upon marriage, they were expected to pay dowry! Back in the Victorian times white men would spend the wife's dowry, and then commit her into a mental asylum, and then go look for another woman to prey on! The law had to be changed to protect women. To this day, when white people get married, it is the WIFE'S FATHER who pays for the wedding. Likewise, Indian women are expected to bring wealth into the family, hence the reason why Indian parents prefer the boy child to a girl child. But in the African society, a girl child was highly valued beause she could bring wealth! Whilst white women were passed from their father to their husband ( they had to surrender their wealth to their husbands) African women actually owned land! Today, our society is in an uproar because we do not rely on cattle as a means of exchange, instead people have to go and find work in order to meet their needs, including paying dowry. Employment is very unrealiable leading to insecurity resulting in the prevalence of come-we-stay marriages. Also men are unable to give women the land because the cost of land is at a premium. As a result our society is upside down because of INSECURITY. Women are left insecure and can become easily disrespectful to a man, whilst men feel defeated and disrespected because they cannot provide for their wives! I'm beginning to notice a trend where people just want to bash African culture or talk fua especially on the issue of dowry. Pastor T needs to educate himself instead of peddling half truths and lies. Honourable Ongoro is another one who showed up on this show talmbout "if my daughter marries a poor man, I am willing to accept a small token of appreciation even a painting". Nonsense. If a man cannot afford dowry , he has no business taking on a wife, because such a marriage is DOOMED. They will struggle financially, the woman will disrespect him, the children will suffer and the man will end up sufferin g from low self esteem!
You have some seriously valid points over there Lekis... I recognize the importance of honouring the wife and her family. I also applaud the legal system it was to bring order incase of death or divorce. This narration is best case scenario, the ideal. We both know that most men view(ed) it as he's bought you... And in this day and age, it has mostly been used to extort the boychild... It's a tough debate, there are pros and cons on each side but it's good we're having these conversations so we can all enlarge our perspective.
Read genesis 24 to understand what he is talking about. You have your African way we have our Bible way and note dowry to some extent is a ritual performed for the forefathers or ancestors. Every animal bloodshed will ask for a human sacrifice and the cycle continues up to the third and fourth generation
@@k3ygvrv summarizing that means am moving from what Pastor T was discussing which is the Bible to what nyar Kano was presenting. Bible versus world philosophy. Read the Bible Genesis 24 it will summerize everything for you about Biblical marriage.
Praise God for the man of God Pastor T for being bold and courageous to speak truth in this format. First time seeing this channel. God is real and Christ Jesus is the Savior of those who will receive Him.
Plain truth. Dowry was good/great and an appreciation for taking care of the girl to be married till we made it a business. Angaa 3m,10 Friesian cows etc
..Pastor T...Am glad you are talking about this...and how the Truth and Wisdom of God has delivered us from these many customary binding cultural practices.
This conversation needs other Elders and Men of God in dialogue with Mr T so that the topic is well expounded. It cannot be well milked on such a platform , it is deep
Pastor T hataki kusema alitoa dowry...... He describes dowry as honoring the parents of the girl not buying as our grandparent described it...... but dowry alipeana
Concept of dowry was to prove you can be able to take care of the woman you are marrying.it was never about slavery.The Bible itself has people who paid dowry like jacob
Negativity in African culture for him he says he is appreciating parents but others are buying.What about I say tithing is buying blessings.every day pastors ni pandeni mbegu but ati dowry ni kuuza.Dowry hatuaachi kutoa
Now that is the truth. The good thing is that --truth is truth. You can take it or leave it but will never change. Thanks Pastor T. I and many others have done the same and it has been a great blessing to know and practice this truth! It doesn't mean you do not honor parents of your wife - you do it differently - God's way as Pastor T explained it. NO TRADE! Sina deni ya mtu haha except that of love!
Pple do it as law thus bringing consequences if not done according as per the culture!but for love it's wins the blessing!it should be done,on foundation of love
Why has Christianity demonised African culture while upholding western practices like weddings. Hii nayo pastor T unachocha wasee. Goats was used as a value of wealth by our ancestors(money, gold, shell, cows) it wasn't used to buy a woman but to appreciate the parents for raising a well mannered lady. Its really crazy how we teach to hate our own skin in the name of backward culture.
And it amazes me how people demonise every african cultural practice. Our ancestors understood spirituality even before missionaries came. Missionaries taught salvation gospel, Africans picked the spirituality of the gospel.
Pastor T is one of favourite pastors of our time but I beg to differ on the issue of dowry especially since he is a Kikuyu let him do research well...it's for appreciation and affirmation that the daughter is in safe hands
@@hockeensrene2453 This is not easy to say but pastor T is not being truthful...He is misleading people. Not only on this topic but also many others...let me first start with this topic. Exodus 22:16 there are laws outlined clearly concerning how marriage should be done. Dowry must be paid to the parent of the bride upon marriage. Fornication was and IS forbidden but incase it happened, God through the scripture holds the man more responsible because He gave men a responsibility to be leaders, providers,lovers, protectors and says that the man should pay dowry to the parents of the lady he fornicated with and take her to be his wife but incase the father of the lady refused to hand over her daughter, the man was still to pay dowry equal to that of virgins. This is the opposite of what the society says! But the good thing is that the society will never dictate the truth, the culture African culture will never dictate the truth only the gospel dictates the truth pick a a side!
@@ashleysombe7333 Here you've got it right n factual as you quoted what the scripture clearly outlines... Mr.T is torn between the Bible n his ideal situation on the bride price matter
@@hockeensrene2453 it’s not only the bride price matter.. T is a false teacher but a polished false teacher very articulate and smartly dressed but what comes out of his mouth is continuously blasphemous and extremely few people are able to see this...only those who have been given divine wisdom from God. There is another clip where he talks about Noah and the flood! he said it never rained but rather water came from the ground coming up😂😅.
Who is worth money Pastor T? Who is worth the blood of Jesus? Dowry has a wide meaning, it goes beyond honour, or value, its a sign of love, bonding, blessing, commitment, renewal, continuity, ... read widely and if you need books to read ask... and go do the real dowry now that you are a leader, pastor, it is fun to do,
You are so right pastor T, l have always been against dowry, it’s outdated; it is about greed, couples are being exploited left, right and centre being left penniless for the sake of ‘tradition’. Tuwache kurudishwa nyuma na kiama etc. same goes for the barbaric n primitive act of Fgm which destroy girls’ lives. My husband and l honoured my parents and my 3 uncles were given something as well.
@@kakabraza2393 So just because it's in the bible so we should follow? How about the warring tribes in the bible, should they continue fighting even now just because it's in the bible? How's that different to people killing in the name of God? Or people feeling entitled to land because "God gave it to them"???
@@afrocoder did my comment suggest that we should follow the Bible? What i meant is, the Bible has been around for ages. It is not outdated but the first comment am replying to says dowry is outdated. If we are to talk of outdating then the Bible should be outdated first.
@@kakabraza2393 So by your logic, if we say we outdate dowry, then we should outdate the Bible first? By that logic, if I disregard one of your opinions, I should disregard you as a whole person? The OP talked about outdating dowry. You seem to disagree by saying that if so, then we should outdate the whole Bible. Bro, OP is talking about outdating dowry, or at least making it fair. That doesn't mean we outdate the whole Bible.
It's good to differentiate the 'word of God' from a person's opinion on an issue. The same manner in which a person may prove and validate his claim using the Bible is the same way another one will use to counter the other person's point. It's all a matter of how well you can articulate your view
I get why he'd say that dowry is buying someone like a slave because nowadays you go for negotiations and a parent will include a water tank in the requirements because the father of that girl has a mjengo somewhere. I've seen it happen first hand. What you need to do is go there and honour a girls parents by identifying who you are and your intentions with their daughter. After that they'll decide if they're going to give you their blessing or not. Most people don't know that asking for dowry in African culture is being rude, whomever is marrying a woman should have the intergrity and decency of presenting himself to her parents. Every time you go into someone's house they invite you in, welcome you to eat at their table and if you'd carried something for them they'll accept it as a 'gift'
dowry should be appreciation but it has been made into a tool for extortion...A parent should have the capacity to bless their daughter unconditionally and not on condition that somebody paid something in exchange for their daughter.
""Dowry never ends" because the daughter always belongs to the father. In our culture dowry is never paid in full, payment in full is an insult and a sign of ignorance. Pastor T knows the bible , but not tradition. 8:47 ati ""female is expression of entities of eternity"" .
@ Paul Karanja Dowry never ends because a woman's work never ends. Dowry is paid as gratitude for the work that the bride will be tasked to do; bear children, raise them and serve the husband's family and community. When a woman gets married, she has effectively entered into service for life. Likewise, dowry will end the day she dies.
It can be paid in full because its documented and listed on a book. What u mean maybe is that the debt of love and honour to those who gave birth to hour wife never ends.
@@favouredgrace65 At least some ordinary people understand the truth about dowry, however for MrT followers, the cliff is approaching and the drop will be hard and loud
What's your point? Just because something is widely practiced doesn't mean we should embrace it. Crime happens globally. So do you support crime? Levels of acceptance of a culture, act, or concept doesn't speak to its relevance, correctness, need, or value.
@ Edward Ngugi It may well be a world wide concept, but Africans are unique in that dowry is paid by the man's family to the woman's family. In Europe, and the India, it is the women who are supposed to bring wealth to the family. In Europe a woman's eligibility was determined by how much dowry her father was willing to give her husband. In effect her woman never saw the wealth as it passed from her father to her husband! In a nutshell, European culture encouraged men to leech off of women and to disrespect them. Whereas in our culture, women were respected, their role as the givers/ carriers of life won them recognition! As for Indians, hadi wa leo we keep on reading about Indian women torching themselves because of being mistreated by greedy in laws. In fact Indian parents prefer the boy child to the girl child. Go figure!
I think Genesis 29 talks about giving dowry 🙄🙄Since Jacob had no other major source of income at that time, he offered to work in exchange for Rachel as his wife. He understood it was the only offer he could make that would have appealed to Laban.
The Jacob, Leah and Rachel story is a horrible example of why people should support dowry. One, because of all the pain it caused the older sister Leah and her children. Two, Jacob’s father-in-law should have paid Jacob for his labor so that he would have some money for the young married couple to begin their married life. Instead the father-in-law took all his labor for free so Jacob did not have money. And Jacob had to work without pay all over again after the deception. That whole story was an example of bride price gone wrong on so many levels!
I Support This issue. At First i Was septikal about The issue until i came to understand. My father gave out goats but after 34yr they separated With my mother. It doent make sence🤷♀️
I love your knowledge. It adds nothing. It's juz the demands of the laws and regulations of individual's tribes. It's spiritual illiteracy. A woman is reduced to a property rather than a partner. I wish we women will open our eyes. No money in this land of the living can buy a human being. Dowry has nothing to do with wife's security or respect from her husband otherwise many wives has faced brutal domestic violence evn to quiting their marriages anyway though the husband has paid everything for the dowry according their traditions Appreciating and thanking our parents is the key. We will give more than dowry.
Appreciation for what? As a man gets a wife, a woman gets a husband. The whole issue of dowry isn’t biblical! God didn’t order payment of dowry in the garden neither did Jesus address the same in the New Testament. Just be a there were cultural instances in the Old Testament that showed dowry payment doesn’t make it godly
About dowry, I strongly disagree with Pastor T, dowry is very much Biblical. When Abraham sent his servant to go and get a wife for his son from his distant cousins in Ur. Abraham's servant was given jewelry of silver, jewelry of gold and other precious things as dowry. The story goes, after Rebekah family agreed to let their daughter go with Abraham's servant to be Isaac's wife. The Bible says... "Then the servant brought out jewelry of silver, jewelry of gold and clothing, and gave them to Rebekah. He also gave precious things to her brother and to her mother." (Genesis 22:53).
@ Scorpio Mwaniki Kifee can be toxic. Sometimes he gets it right sometimes he gets it wrong. And juu yake he sounds like he has issues with his parents- he sounds as Mom was domineering and Dad was a simp. I highly recommend taking Kifee with a pinch of salt.
@@lekis5975 I know that, thanks though. I occasionally watch him and avoid commenting since some behave like it's a cult over there and whatever he says is the correct and only acceptable thing to do or behave that way.
@@mwaniki9 LOL! You are right. I've noticed on some of these threads, Kenyans either act like sycophants or illiterates, applauding all manner of half baked ideas. Very disturbing. When you challenge some of them, they start saying they are there foro the LOLS! I don''t even know what to say anymore.
@@lekis5975 most of the information he says is true. For example women should be accountable, feminism, divorce cases and statistics, becoming a high value guy,men to stop simping and slaves to women, masculinity etc.
Thanks bcoz you've said it was a "gift" not payments as it is done with these wazee wa sikuizi. They want u to give half a million b4 taking their daughter as a wife!!
To me dowry is a token of appreciation n a way of saying thanks to the girls parents n showing respect hence not taking her for granted as if she is frm nowgere
Kwanza Mimi sitapeleka dowerly,am feeding theire daughter,na mununulia nguo, living in my home free rent, she is driving my car, the girl parent should pay me not me paying them, period.
Dowry as many have said is away of appreciation. But many tend to forget how it usually goes down in those rooms what we call negotiation. Negotiating with some a summation of items to offer in exchange of a woman. I also don't ascribe to that tradition.
KJV Bible - Exodus 22:16-17, Genesis 34:11-12, Genesis 29:16-28, Genesis 24:53-60, 1st Samuel 18:25, 2nd Samuel 3:14, These Bible verses clearly shows that dowry is a requirement to get a wife, daughters were not given free for marriage. Pastor T. Mwangi if you die without paying the dowry, that debt can take you to HELL FIRE 🔥🔥🔥🔥. Paying dowry is God's will.
Dowry is not a world wide concept. It's like buying a human being and owning them mostly man paying dowry for a wife, in asia most of them it's the other way round woman paying dowry for her husband. Watu wapendane kama mtu anaweza toa kitu as appropriation to both side its okay but should not be like a burden or a must.
@@KingofZamunda. the guy is so stupid, first of all buy saying dowry is slavery what he is saying is his grandmothers were slaves because his grandfathers payed dowry
Dowry shouldn't be a must, considering the current economic situation. The modern global economic model is what has made dowry payment to become transactional. In the old days, dowry payment was a sign of appreciation and proof of financial capacity to take care of the woman you're marrying, and remember african society then, had a communal economic model. Those goats mostly came from the groom's father&uncles. That being said, na mwache kutoa sadaka pia, because God doesn't need it.
I will never call my tradition slavery Its more like morality. While the stories in the Bible is about a certain people who incorporated their traditions in the book. So your are telling me to leave my tradition and follow theirs. U must be sick in the head
Your point? Cos we fight for FGM to stop. Those communities consider FGM as mila. But ikifika kwa dowry ndo unafeel ikiachwa ni mila itakuwa imevunjwa? 😂
Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins.
@@afrocoder The man is appreciated when the wife pushes out his big headed children out of her narrow birth canal so that his lineage and clan are extended!
@@lekis5975 🙌 Nimeacha. I see your point. I respect that. Lakini hapo kwa some families doing it for extortion is where we should change as society. Kuna wale wazee wanakwamilia tu buana.
@@mwendwakiniu1936 You need to enlighten yourself. Dowry is a sign that our forefathers were advanced, and they respected women, unlike the white community and asian community where the WOMAN actually pays dowry. Dowry is paid for a woman because WOMEN ARE THE CARRIERS of LIFE. As much as the man provides the sperm to fertilise the egg, it is the woman who carries the foetus for nine months and has to do deal with the vagaries of pregnancy ranging from morning illness, distended belly to nutritional deficiencies culminating in child birth. Women actually die in child birth, or sustain lifelong injuries eg fistulas. If they come through unscathed, they still have to contend with weight gain, stretch marks, breast feeding and breast sagging. Dowry is to mitigate for the loss that women experience. A man is expected to pay dowry to the woman's family, to thank them for giving their daughter permission to take on the risk to extend his lineage! Children can only take on their father's name (or use his clan names and praises) once dowry has been paid. Children belong to the father as evidenced by the fact that paternal DNA is dominant. However, dowry has to be paid and an animal has to be slaughter before the children can receive recognition from the paternal ancestors. If the man fail to pay dowry (or damages) then the children belong to her family and clan. Once dowry has been paid, should the marriage breakdown and the woman decides to leave, she could not take the children with her. Dowry also enabled a man to empower his wife by empowering through wealth (land and cattle). Dowry included the transfer of land, this allowed woman to be independent sufficient to provide vegetables, fruit, grain, nuts and seeds, whilst men brought meat to the table. Our grandmothers went Dutch way before white women knew the meaning of the word. Meantime white women did not have the right to own land until about 150 years ago, that is why they were quick to embrace feminism so that they could fight for some rights. Dowry also encourage men to respect virginity, and to avoid impregnating a woman they did not give like or love sufficient to enrich (land and cattle). If a man failed to pay dowry, then likewise his daughter would not be dowried. I could go on, but I will leave it there. However, do yourself a favour and educate yourself instead of disparaging your self and by extension your ancestors and fundamentally your mother.
See how conflicted we are coz of following Christianity and a touch of tradition!!! Whites introduced their God to Africa and now we seem to know him more than those who even introduced it! We had our own way of life! You can't follow both!!!
It is good to know that a human being can't exist without the society unless you're alien, then a man without culture and history dead. Look at the bible from Genesis Abraham sent his servant with treasures to Laban's home to ask for hand of marriage of Isaac, so did Jacob work for his wives. Please people let not all what the men of God sway you from being you. If we be so westernized then what will be our identity???
One thing i always say is that if our African religions were real and true.. They could have stood the test of time just like the Gospel of Jesus has and they could still exist right now. The Gospel of Jesus Christ reached our fore fathers, shook off whatever they had believed. They embraced Christianity and they converted.
@Nathaniel Did you study Religious Education? If you studied religious education, then you would have been taught the similarities between Traditional African Religion and Christianity. The Old Testament espouses many traditional African customs eg rites of passage, respect for virginity, dowry, polygamy, wife inheritance, mourning, how to sacrifice animals to seal a covenant. You lot love purport to embrace the Old Testament, you love to quote it, whilst at the same time claiming it was supplanted by the New Testament, schizophrenic much? Before acting as if the Bible is the be all and end all, I suggest you find a JEW, and ask them why they crucified Jesus. When you find out you will realise that you have been being lied to about Christianity. Wishing you God speed.
@@lekis5975 yes i was taught .. but being similar doesn't mean same .If similarity was the standard of measure then, Christianity shares a lot with other religions too.. does it mean they are the same? I still maintain, if our traditional religious system was the right one it could still exist. Traditional customs existed in every community. They just provided a moral accountability. As much as i don't understand this part you mentioned but i don't have to find a jew to ask him/her why they crucified Jesus, It is clearly written in the Bible.It is clear in history too. I find it funny when you use the other side of the jews to try to make a point..the ones who didn't believe in Jesus. Yet the few who believed in him through their work the gospel has spread to the whole world. Nobody has lied to me about Christianity. Have found out for myself that it is the best decision i ever made. I can't deny they are people who have used Christianity in the wrong way but it doesn't mean the whole of it is a lie . are you a christian?
@@nathanielahao I am Christian, in that I was raised as a Christian- baptism, holy communion, confirmation, getting saved. I am also a Christian in that the bible is my main reference form in my spiritual journey. That said, at one point I struggled with Christianity, especially when I came of age and began to examine white supremacy (racism) in greater detail. Christianity was an instrument that used to perpetuate white supremacy. I have sort of come to terms with Christianity through Black Consciousness. BC helped me to somewhat see the connection between Christianity and Africa. *It is disingenuous to argue that our customs only provided a moral accountability. Our customs were influenced by our traditional religion, which buttressed our spiritual grown and development, know that* . In submission, I prefer to say, I practise spirituality rather than Christianity. I am open to views from different philosophies including Traditional African Religion and culture. Nathaniel, it is disingenuous to argue that Christianity became widespread because it was/is superior. religion Truth is, *Christianity was advanced using deception, brain washing and the barrel of a gun!* Out of all teh indigenous groups, Africans got the brunt of it, what between slavery and colonisation. Although Indians were colonised they were allowed to maintain their culture, religion and language. Africans? Not to so much. The mental enslavement was TOTAL. We were trained to believe we were less than, and treated as beasts of burden because our lips were thick, our noses were broad and our hair was curly! Even today, Asians are considered the model minority. We were actively discouraged from speaking our languages, and encouraged to master English because as you think and speak, so you are. Also, it allowed Europeans to listen in on our conversations and act accordingly. Today, we insist on speaking English, never mind we have not quite mastered it (the way an English person speaks English is not the way we speak it), even worse, we lack the poetry, the lyricism, the wit of our mother tongue, which in turn results in coarse speech! Refined language enhances persuasive speech and actively promotes diplomacy... I mean look at the Tanzanians and they way they interact? Very gentle, polite and sophisticated, mean time Kenyans are just...fill in the blanks. LOL! Europeans viciously wielded Christianity and formal education as a badge of enlightenment and honour, and they used it to divide and rule. In ancient Africa, we never looked down upon each others cultures. Even if one group conquered another, the conquerors would leave the conquered to carry on with their life, on the proviso that the conquered paid taxes, remained loyal and raised an army in times of war. We intermarried at will as evidenced in the similarities in language. Europeans , on the other hand looked down upon our culture and made it their mission to obliterate it, hence the reason why Christianity prospered! If they considered equals then they too would have done things like giving their children African names, practising our culture etc. Instead they actively promoted their culture, whilst stealing what was good from us without admitting it! The New Testament is based on the Old Testament (Judaism) , the latter which really shows the similarity between so called Christianity and African culture. Yet, Christians are actively encouraged to elevate the New Testament over the Old Testament. JEWS do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, because he failed to fulfill the signs as taught in the Talmud. Jesus was not the first to claim that he was the Messiah, but Simeon Ben Kosibah was the most convincing. I find it strange that Christians stay claiming Christ, yet they don't seem to fully understand his link to Judaism, or interrogate why he was rejected by the Jews sufficient to analyse to the conflict between the Old and New Testament. As far as I'm considered Christ is a prophet, a revolutionary and a philosopher. I embrace the bible because it encapsulates my values which are similar to the values of my ancestor. Am I Christian? Not really.
@@lekis5975 This is quite long. And i really appreciate you replying back. I wouldn’t pretend that i know everything about christianity but I pray for Gods guidance when in doubt as i learn more. AFRICAN TRADITIONAL RELIGIOUS SYSTEM AND CHRISTIANITY I don’t want to generalize all our traditional customs , i want us to specifically stay on the religious aspect part. I think you are misunderstanding me when i say that christianity has stood the test of time while the traditional religious system has not. What am saying is: if the traditional religous sytem was right, today it could still exist. For example not so many of us appreciate our cultures. Despite many of us not embracing it, it still exist because some people still hold to it and theY feel its not worthy letting it go. Christianity has stood the test of time, history tells us how many times powerfull people have tried to interfere with it and they have misreabely failed. From bringing up speculations to persercuting and killing christians. All these challenges have never stopped christianity from spreading or growing. Christianity overcame it all. Am not saying our traditional religios system failed because of white supremacy which favoured christianity. White supremacy never favoured christianity, traditional religious belief just failed when the real deal came. Also remember during colonization when africans were not allowed to attend white churches they built their own. If the traditional religious system was so important why did they built churches yet the colonizers didn’t allow them in their own? CHRISTIANITY,WHITE SUPREMACY,COLONIZATION,MISSIONARIES AND AFRICANS Christianity never thrived because of white supremacy. If i may ask, between the colonizers and the missionaries who came to africa first? And if it thrived because it was superior then am i right to assume all whites are christians? Also why do you say that christianity is a superior religion? history tells us how christians have suffered in different generations. For example Nero the roman emperor persecuted christians and not only him there are more of such people. If it was superior, why not deffend its members from the attrocities committed against them by people like Nero? Africans got the brunt for resisting colonization not for refusing christianity. Colonization is not related to christianity at all. I think you are mixing colonization and the missionaries. It is wrong for you to say that christianity used deception, brainwashing and conversion at gun point. Have you not heard about the matrys of uganda when Kabaka the then ruler killed about 70 believers. This was long before colonization - 1886 to be exact. That was like 2 decades before colonization. The colonizers didn’t care about religion they only cared about those who collaborated and accepted to be colonized. If you resisted you got crushed if you couldn’t defend yourself. When you say ‘Europeans viciously wielded christianity and formal education as a badge of enlightment and honor’. Why woul you generalize the act of a few people to the whole christiany futhermore all the europeans who came to africa, were they all christians? And how did africans respond when they were not accepted in such institutions. They built their own including churches. Ethiopia was never colonized why is christianity the most accepted. Is it because of white supremacy?It is true europeans looked down on the african culture but christianity has nothing to do with that. How did christianity aid in slavery? Tanzanians are polite because of the president they had, Julius kambarage nyerere. He promoted the spirit of ujamaa - familyhood this greatly brought about that harmony. In kenya our first 2 presidents did not promote unity and thats why during political seasons like now we are uneasy. The first missionaries after reaching african they learnt the local languages and translated the bible to those languages. Which is different from what the colonizers did.And again you are mixing colonization with christianity and missionary work. Christianity was not an instrument used to perpertuate white supremacy, white supremacy never favoured any race. It’s only a tool for the few rich whites. Again are all whites christians? And if you are a poor white does white supremacy favour you? White supremacy is a tool to rule the mases - divide and rule. It doesn’t care about race it only favours the rich. Also, if christianity was used to brainwash, deceive and convert at gun point, how comes it was not used when america was colonised by the british, Why did they not convert the red indians they found there yet this was before they thought of coming to africa? What of slavery? Slavery existed long before colonization. It dates back to 15th centuary. Africans who practiced traditional religious system saw it right to sell their fellow africans to arabs and whites. JEWS AND JESUS Not all jews accepted Jesus, some did. Why did Jesus come to earth? He was the messiah talked about in the old testament. Most jews failed to recognize jesus as the messiah because from what they had been taught by their teachers- the pharisees and the saducees was misleading. The jews who did not believe Jesus as the messiah thought that the messiah was to be an actual jewish king who would lead them to battles and protect them from their enemies. Most of the jews rellied on what they were taught by the pharisees. When Jesus came he fullfilled all the promises about him mentioned in the old testament. Not a single one remained.(Jesus did not practice judaism, if he did then him and the pharisees would have synced.Christianity came after death of Jesus)The old and new testament don’t conflict they both speak the same message. Judaism and christianity are not the same they are different. Christ is not a prophet , he is the son of God, the Messiah promised. Nobody actively encourages christians to elevate new testament over old testament. Those who do , don’t know what they are doing. To christians or churches who don’t read the the old testament should self reflect on themselve and change, both the old and new testament are equally important. MY CONCLUSION Information is power, the wrong information can corrupt your mind. It is right to question. I think the sources of your information is mixed somehow. You are mixing different occurences and blamming it on christianity.colonization has nothing to do with christianity same to both slavery and racism. For a long time christianity has been the scapegoat. But not anymore, theres access to information. If you don’t mind me asking you to reconsider your faith in Jesus - asking the questions to the right people will answer all the questions you have about christianity.
@@nathanielahao I have quickly skimmed over your post. I'm a bit busy right now and I will respond within the next 24 hrs. I must confess I'm horrified by some of the things you've said, you're either young or very naive. I hope it's the latter.
I have just learnt from the comments that people hear a lot of things but listen to nothing..pasi is not against Dowry rather he is against the concept and notion of many African Families on dowry...I support You Sir dowry should be paid as a token of appreciation and not be negotiated as many do.... Those saying Jacob worked for 14years why are you not telling us the real reason he worked for 14years.... When you negotiate for a human being is the same as buying them(SLAVERY).
@@KingofZamunda. ni kizungu ngumu ama, Pasi is against the concept of negotiation in most African cultures;pay dowery as honor not as buying the girl,when you find girls relatives asking for certain conditions to be met ndo uende na msichana,do they mean if I meet the condition i can do anything to her since i met the condition.
@@angelmichael2404 You know he misses the point of how dowry came to be, no one was being bought in the days of our ancestors. The honouring is a washy washy term he is using for his misleading agenda. You paying dowry means, you are compensating the ladys family for loosing a human resource, and to some extent, it shows that you as a man is able to take care of the lady. She can go back to her parents but that would mean that the dowry paid is returned as well(some ethnic groups have this inplace).
Paster T has spoken too much contradicting himself A good dancer no matter how good u are at dancing u should know when to leave the stage🤣🤣🤣 Dowry is not to buy but to appreciate the parents and that’s why dowry has no end kijana
Pastor T ...you better listen and listen carefully to this man...judgement is coming be prepared stock up oil for your lampes like the wise virgins...let those who have ears hear
This is how it should be done; the man takes his bride to his parents, they go and appreciate (token) the man's parents. He introduce her to entire family. He then go to the brides parents, appreciate them and ask for her hand in marriage as respect. He then goes and they be joined as husband and wife. This is what Christians should do but not to follow traditions of men which bible tells us to keep away from. But if you don't believe in Christ, you are already a slave to all those traditions. I have two sons and one daughter, all grown and this what I teach them. And we are kikuyus and we won't do traditions to please men. NO! Christ has set us free from the curse of the law!
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
This man paid more than what could've been set as dowry. I believe in honour 👌
I am going to take Pastor T as my negotiator when I finally decide to settle, he has serious financial skills. He is the kind of person who will eat at a restaurant for free because he'll convince you that you can't put value to the food that enters the temple of the Holy Spirit
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ahhhh🤣🤣🤣
😄😅🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Martin Khalif You are hilarious! Chris Rock ain't got nothing on you, watch out for Pastor T before he does a will smith on you. LOL!
😂😂 ni wewe umesema ivo
I know God is in you Pastor T...
May He Bless You and increase you knowledge wise and wisdom.
How is he a man of God, if scripture tells us Rebekah was paid a bride price for. My friend read your scripture through the spirit
Hate him or love him, Pastor T is a great thinker and a lover of knowledge and wisdom...
Which wisdom?
He's not. He usually talks with no one to challenge him.
I'm planning to employ this criticality of Pst T in my home
Dowry is a reflection of provision as a man and token of appreciation to the wife's parents. You can't take somebody's daughter for free as if you have picked her from the streets. Dowry is not the actual price of a woman. Women are human beings too and therefore they are priceless. Dowry is not slavery has Mr T puts it.
Paying dowry is not buying a woman...but a requirement for marriage understand do not see.... nobody pays dowry in a sense of buying a woman
Kwani the man who pays grew from the tree?
@@nyamburanjengah5797
😂😂😂
@@nyamburanjengah5797 You sound dumb. Dowry is paid to the bride and her family because it is the woman who carries the foetus and has to deal with all the attendant problems that come with pregnancy ranging from morning sickness, weight gain, stretch marks, breast feeding, sleepless nights. Women died, and continue to die in child birth, sometimes they develop life long health issues eg fistulas. Women depreciate with marriage and pregnancy. Our ancestors appreciated the role that women played and the risks stacked against us, hence the reason why they insisted on dowry to honour the woman and her family!
DNA proves that father's DNA is dominant and as such, children belong to the father. Dowry was paid to complete the covenant allowing children to become fully fledged members of their father's clan. Once dowry had been made, if there was divorce or separation a woman was not allowed to leave with her children. By the same token if she was widowed, her husband's family and clain were supposed to help her look after the children.
Dowry wa a means of transfering wealth to a woman (cattle and land). African woman tilled the land and as such were able to bring vegetables, grain, fruit, seeds, and nuts to the table. Men, brought meet (from cows or went hunting for game). In this way, our grandmothers learnt to go Dutch way before white women started waffling on about feminism.
Women were and are more likely to respect a man who empowers them. An empowered woman is able to provide for her family even if her husband dies or is injured.
European societies never valued their women, it is white women who were expected to pay dowry. Even today, when white people get married, it is the bride's father who pays for the wedding. Let me not even start on the Indian brides who torch themselves because of being tortured by the groom's family on account of failure to bring in the desired wealth!
Educate yourself before you start making snide comments!
Who appreciates the man's parents?
Dowry payment is a very key point in acquiring parental blessings. Dowry wasn't a way to sacrifice to gods but a process of negotiation aimed at enhancing a cordial relationship between the in laws. The aim wasn't to buy the girl to my knowledge. That negotiation process is very important and has worked for me blessings. Let's not demonize the whole process. It depends however on the contents of the process. There are extremes and excesses that we need to be on the lookout for lest we engage in satanic rituals.
Transactional blessings. . ??
Pastor T of the Truth & Understanding
Firstly, I'd like to applaud all the Kenyan men who have vouched for the importance of dowry! Well done my brothers for understanding the importance of our culture. Pastor T needs to and do his research on African culture, instead of peddling half baked arguments.
Firstly, dowry is *ALIMONY paid in advance*. The dowry (cattle) was split three ways (Dad, mum, bride) In case the marriage broke down (due to the man's fault) a woman would have something to support herself. If it broke down because of her fault, the dowry would have to be refunded! However, if she had given birth, the refund would be re calculated to reflect that.
Upon marriage a woman received cattle and LAND to till, therefore *dowry was a way to empower a woman*, so that she could walk through the world with her own things, and even leave her youngest son an inheritance!
*Our ancestors decreed that men should pay dowry, because women are the givers of life-* men might contribute the sperm that fertilises the egg, but they don't have to deal with the vagaries of pregnancy. Therefore, dowry was paid by the groom, in order to honour the Bride and her family, for the sacrifices she was going to undertake in extending her husband's lineage and clan. White people and Indians do not respect their women folk in that regard, but our ancestors had the gumption to recognise the contribution that women make in society.
Through land ownership (acquired upon marriage), *African women were able to bring something to the table- fruit, vegetables, seeds, and nuts (our grandfathers herded the cattle and hunted game in order to bring meat to the table)* . This arrangement illustrates that our grandmothers knew how to go Dutch, way before white feminists discovered the word. It also passes a damning indictment to slay queens, who traffic in their beauty and eschew hard work, and the men who promote slay queen behaviour.
Also, dowry complelled men to respect virginity. *Men respected virginity* because they did not want to impregnate a girl, and end up paying dowry for a woman they did not particularly like or love!
Once the dowry amount had been agreed upon, and the dowry handed over (in part or in whole), the elders were supposed to slaughter an animal to seal the covenant, and to *introduce the wife to her husband's ancestors*. Dowry was the gateway to the introduction.
Also, the dowry payment meant that any *children borne in ohat marriage effectively belong to the MAN*. If the marriage broke down, the woman was not allowed to leave with the children because dowry had been paid. For example, when NELSON MANDELA divorced his 1st wife Evelyn, he served her with the divorce plus *the last dowry instalment*. In effect, he paid dowry to the children. That is why when he was on Robben Island, his extended family looked after his children! Had he not finished paying the dowry, his children would not have been allowed to bear his surname, nor would his family have been allowed to act for his children during the traditional ceremonies/rites eg circumcision or marriage or death! Likewise when Winnie Mandela died, the Dhlomo clan offered to bury her because although the Mandelas were divorced in civil law, they were not divorced in Customary law!! For divorce to occur in Customary law, the dowry must be refunded in part or in whole (depending on causation), AND an animal must be slaughtered to reverse the contract both in the physical and the spirit world (ancestral realms). Dowry must also be refunded if a widow elects to re-marry!!!
It made sense for the man to pay the dowry, because even Science, genetics aka DNA proves that in as much as a child inherits DNA from BOTH parents, the FATHER's DNA is dominant. In essence, *children belong to the father* , however a hand over ceremony must be done before they are born- aka dowry must be paid! If the dowry is not paid, the children cannot carry their father's clan name, and the daughter's will be not dowried! Refusing to pay dowry causes conflict for the children and upheavel in the ancestral realms!
If a man impregnates a woman and refuses to marry her, then he must pay damages! Damages, allow the child to be claimed by the paternal side of the family and it prevents upheavel in the ancestral realms. Should such a woman get married by another man, the husband is not expected to pay dowry, because she is damaged goods!
If a marriage breaks down, dowry can be refunded (including interest (i.e any calves). A refund can only be requested, if it is proven that the breakdown was caused by the wife! However, if she has produced children, then that will be taken into consideration as a mitigating factor, and the refund will be reduced accordingly.
Our ancestors were very progressive, they respected women because they recognised that women are the givers of life, they are the only ones who can enable a man to extend his lineage, his clan and expand his community.
White women on the other hand were mules to white men (cue feminism in the 60s...or was it 70s)? They were not allowed to own property. Upon marriage, they were expected to pay dowry! Back in the Victorian times white men would spend the wife's dowry, and then commit her into a mental asylum, and then go look for another woman to prey on! The law had to be changed to protect women.
To this day, when white people get married, it is the WIFE'S FATHER who pays for the wedding. Likewise, Indian women are expected to bring wealth into the family, hence the reason why Indian parents prefer the boy child to a girl child. But in the African society, a girl child was highly valued beause she could bring wealth!
Whilst white women were passed from their father to their husband ( they had to surrender their wealth to their husbands) African women actually owned land!
Today, our society is in an uproar because we do not rely on cattle as a means of exchange, instead people have to go and find work in order to meet their needs, including paying dowry. Employment is very unrealiable leading to insecurity resulting in the prevalence of come-we-stay marriages. Also men are unable to give women the land because the cost of land is at a premium. As a result our society is upside down because of INSECURITY. Women are left insecure and can become easily disrespectful to a man, whilst men feel defeated and disrespected because they cannot provide for their wives!
I'm beginning to notice a trend where people just want to bash African culture or talk fua especially on the issue of dowry. Pastor T needs to educate himself instead of peddling half truths and lies. Honourable Ongoro is another one who showed up on this show talmbout "if my daughter marries a poor man, I am willing to accept a small token of appreciation even a painting". Nonsense. If a man cannot afford dowry , he has no business taking on a wife, because such a marriage is DOOMED. They will struggle financially, the woman will disrespect him, the children will suffer and the man will end up sufferin g from low self esteem!
You have some seriously valid points over there Lekis... I recognize the importance of honouring the wife and her family. I also applaud the legal system it was to bring order incase of death or divorce. This narration is best case scenario, the ideal. We both know that most men view(ed) it as he's bought you... And in this day and age, it has mostly been used to extort the boychild... It's a tough debate, there are pros and cons on each side but it's good we're having these conversations so we can all enlarge our perspective.
Just understand that women aren't commodities of transaction ...
Read genesis 24 to understand what he is talking about. You have your African way we have our Bible way and note dowry to some extent is a ritual performed for the forefathers or ancestors. Every animal bloodshed will ask for a human sacrifice and the cycle continues up to the third and fourth generation
I wish you could have summarized this
@@k3ygvrv summarizing that means am moving from what Pastor T was discussing which is the Bible to what nyar Kano was presenting. Bible versus world philosophy. Read the Bible Genesis 24 it will summerize everything for you about Biblical marriage.
Praise God for the man of God Pastor T for being bold and courageous to speak truth in this format. First time seeing this channel. God is real and Christ Jesus is the Savior of those who will receive Him.
Plain truth.
Dowry was good/great and an appreciation for taking care of the girl to be married till we made it a business.
Angaa 3m,10 Friesian cows etc
I conquer with you Mr.T
..Pastor T...Am glad you are talking about this...and how the Truth and Wisdom of God has delivered us from these many customary binding cultural practices.
This conversation needs other Elders and Men of God in dialogue with Mr T so that the topic is well expounded. It cannot be well milked on such a platform , it is deep
I strongly agree with you
Sure, culture is culture
Try listening to John N. Ng'ang'a, he is a Christian elder he explains these matters properly
Above all let the Holy spirit lead always
Pastor T hataki kusema alitoa dowry...... He describes dowry as honoring the parents of the girl not buying as our grandparent described it...... but dowry alipeana
yes dowry is just not the right term for him
Pastor T is blessed with knowledge and understanding.
i stand with the name of God almighty. the truth is genuinely visible
Concept of dowry was to prove you can be able to take care of the woman you are marrying.it was never about slavery.The Bible itself has people who paid dowry like jacob
He will pay it soon. U can't decide whether to pay dowry or not.
Any biblical reference that shows correlation between responsibility and dowry? What dowry did Adam pay for Eve?
@@sharonnzuki2747 his rib.
@@marykinuthia6067 he payed the dowry with his rib aky mko na jokes 😅😂😂😂🤣😂
Negativity in African culture for him he says he is appreciating parents but others are buying.What about I say tithing is buying blessings.every day pastors ni pandeni mbegu but ati dowry ni kuuza.Dowry hatuaachi kutoa
Don't pay dowry. U will pay 4 it. Kama huwezi, hiyo ni yako. U will pay 4 it dearly+ ua generation.
Long ago they were no negotiations as it is now. There was a standard token of appreciation
The guy is just a populist. You can use the Bible to justify or rebuke anything. He is a good guy in his craft.
which part specificically do you disagree with him?
populist!!! okay, there is no man of God in this world i trust like him
True 👍 ✔.
You are right. He can lie in plain sight and guys clap at that. He interprets the Bible as he likes
These arguments only appeal to people who have no idea what philosophy is
Now that is the truth. The good thing is that --truth is truth. You can take it or leave it but will never change. Thanks Pastor T. I and many others have done the same and it has been a great blessing to know and practice this truth! It doesn't mean you do not honor parents of your wife - you do it differently - God's way as Pastor T explained it. NO TRADE! Sina deni ya mtu haha except that of love!
AMEN...
Pple do it as law thus bringing consequences if not done according as per the culture!but for love it's wins the blessing!it should be done,on foundation of love
Why has Christianity demonised African culture while upholding western practices like weddings. Hii nayo pastor T unachocha wasee. Goats was used as a value of wealth by our ancestors(money, gold, shell, cows) it wasn't used to buy a woman but to appreciate the parents for raising a well mannered lady. Its really crazy how we teach to hate our own skin in the name of backward culture.
Jamaa ni kawaida yake kumislead watu
He's wearing a ring...once read somewhere about rings and Saturn (planet) worship
Kikuyus fight their culture so confidently while giving excuses of West or Israel were not doing it why should we, sad!
I was waiting for this comment. You are awake my brother
He is very wrong in most of the things he is saying ...
I agree with you 😂
And it amazes me how people demonise every african cultural practice. Our ancestors understood spirituality even before missionaries came. Missionaries taught salvation gospel, Africans picked the spirituality of the gospel.
Thanks Pastor T for your Insight of the word of God...God bless you
Well said pastor Tee blessed 🙌
Angels are real,devils are real, Heaven is real hell is real
Pastor T is one of favourite pastors of our time but I beg to differ on the issue of dowry especially since he is a Kikuyu let him do research well...it's for appreciation and affirmation that the daughter is in safe hands
Why isn't the man appreciated?
I have tromendous respect for you Pastor Anthony T Mwangi by Steve Irungu Jermaine
Pastor T, your explanation of Scripture is great and i love how your explanation humbled Swiry Nyar Kano. Preach the gospel.
Please invite me to these interviews....There is need to correct both T and Nyar
What's your take...I'm sure it will still be heard here in the comments
🙌🙌 exactly 💯
@@hockeensrene2453 This is not easy to say but pastor T is not being truthful...He is misleading people. Not only on this topic but also many others...let me first start with this topic. Exodus 22:16 there are laws outlined clearly concerning how marriage should be done. Dowry must be paid to the parent of the bride upon marriage. Fornication was and IS forbidden but incase it happened, God through the scripture holds the man more responsible because He gave men a responsibility to be leaders, providers,lovers, protectors and says that the man should pay dowry to the parents of the lady he fornicated with and take her to be his wife but incase the father of the lady refused to hand over her daughter, the man was still to pay dowry equal to that of virgins.
This is the opposite of what the society says! But the good thing is that the society will never dictate the truth, the culture African culture will never dictate the truth only the gospel dictates the truth pick a a side!
@@ashleysombe7333 Here you've got it right n factual as you quoted what the scripture clearly outlines... Mr.T is torn between the Bible n his ideal situation on the bride price matter
@@hockeensrene2453 it’s not only the bride price matter.. T is a false teacher but a polished false teacher very articulate and smartly dressed but what comes out of his mouth is continuously blasphemous and extremely few people are able to see this...only those who have been given divine wisdom from God. There is another clip where he talks about Noah and the flood! he said it never rained but rather water came from the ground coming up😂😅.
He's speaking the truth
Who is worth money Pastor T? Who is worth the blood of Jesus? Dowry has a wide meaning, it goes beyond honour, or value, its a sign of love, bonding, blessing, commitment, renewal, continuity, ... read widely and if you need books to read ask... and go do the real dowry now that you are a leader, pastor, it is fun to do,
Spirituality is deep God is real
Pastor T. naye uwaga Master...He Speaks Conc. Truth
He should also tell us that God is too wealthy to be given 10% tithe..
Bhana, if he is to go for dowry, then he should go the whole mile and answer these things.
Mercy Lord....🤦
On point Pastor T. 👏👏👏👏
You are so right pastor T, l have always been against dowry, it’s outdated; it is about greed, couples are being exploited left, right and centre being left penniless for the sake of ‘tradition’. Tuwache kurudishwa nyuma na kiama etc. same goes for the barbaric n primitive act of Fgm which destroy girls’ lives. My husband and l honoured my parents and my 3 uncles were given something as well.
When will the Bible he is referring from be outdated? because from the look of things all things are set to be outdated
@@kakabraza2393
So just because it's in the bible so we should follow?
How about the warring tribes in the bible, should they continue fighting even now just because it's in the bible?
How's that different to people killing in the name of God?
Or people feeling entitled to land because "God gave it to them"???
@@afrocoder did my comment suggest that we should follow the Bible?
What i meant is, the Bible has been around for ages. It is not outdated but the first comment am replying to says dowry is outdated. If we are to talk of outdating then the Bible should be outdated first.
@@kakabraza2393
So by your logic, if we say we outdate dowry, then we should outdate the Bible first?
By that logic, if I disregard one of your opinions, I should disregard you as a whole person?
The OP talked about outdating dowry. You seem to disagree by saying that if so, then we should outdate the whole Bible.
Bro, OP is talking about outdating dowry, or at least making it fair. That doesn't mean we outdate the whole Bible.
@@kakabraza2393 God can never be outdated. Ancient of days but fresh all day everyday, the living water "Behold I do a new thing"
The word of God has power.
It's good to differentiate the 'word of God' from a person's opinion on an issue. The same manner in which a person may prove and validate his claim using the Bible is the same way another one will use to counter the other person's point. It's all a matter of how well you can articulate your view
Iliandikwa Revelations River Euphrates itadry up, ilianza kudry up 2012... And that's how I knew there's something special about the God of the Bible
Well said pastor truth
I get why he'd say that dowry is buying someone like a slave because nowadays you go for negotiations and a parent will include a water tank in the requirements because the father of that girl has a mjengo somewhere. I've seen it happen first hand.
What you need to do is go there and honour a girls parents by identifying who you are and your intentions with their daughter. After that they'll decide if they're going to give you their blessing or not. Most people don't know that asking for dowry in African culture is being rude, whomever is marrying a woman should have the intergrity and decency of presenting himself to her parents.
Every time you go into someone's house they invite you in, welcome you to eat at their table and if you'd carried something for them they'll accept it as a 'gift'
I believe this 100%
He talks about the devil as if God didn't create the devil.
Remember, 'I created good and evil'? That was a quote from God.
dowry should be appreciation but it has been made into a tool for extortion...A parent should have the capacity to bless their daughter unconditionally and not on condition that somebody paid something in exchange for their daughter.
""Dowry never ends" because the daughter always belongs to the father. In our culture dowry is never paid in full, payment in full is an insult and a sign of ignorance. Pastor T knows the bible , but not tradition.
8:47 ati ""female is expression of entities of eternity"" .
@ Paul Karanja Dowry never ends because a woman's work never ends. Dowry is paid as gratitude for the work that the bride will be tasked to do; bear children, raise them and serve the husband's family and community. When a woman gets married, she has effectively entered into service for life. Likewise, dowry will end the day she dies.
It can be paid in full because its documented and listed on a book. What u mean maybe is that the debt of love and honour to those who gave birth to hour wife never ends.
Mwacha mila on the TV
@@KingofZamunda. mwacha mila ni mtumwa, slavery is never the best position to be by not knowing what your tradition foundation is shaky
@@favouredgrace65 At least some ordinary people understand the truth about dowry, however for MrT followers, the cliff is approaching and the drop will be hard and loud
Paster T.. that honor ulitoa.. "gift" i.e pesa.. ..no one buy someone..
I am with you 100%Mr T.
Finally I get a kiuk who agrees with me
True Pst. T.. I cannot exchange my daughters with a cows or goats, my girls are priceless. If you love and respect them then you are are good to go.
Dowry is not only african tradition its world wide concept
What's your point?
Just because something is widely practiced doesn't mean we should embrace it.
Crime happens globally. So do you support crime?
Levels of acceptance of a culture, act, or concept doesn't speak to its relevance, correctness, need, or value.
Phillipines don't pay dowry
Lol it's not a worldwide concept
@ Edward Ngugi It may well be a world wide concept, but Africans are unique in that dowry is paid by the man's family to the woman's family. In Europe, and the India, it is the women who are supposed to bring wealth to the family. In Europe a woman's eligibility was determined by how much dowry her father was willing to give her husband. In effect her woman never saw the wealth as it passed from her father to her husband! In a nutshell, European culture encouraged men to leech off of women and to disrespect them. Whereas in our culture, women were respected, their role as the givers/ carriers of life won them recognition! As for Indians, hadi wa leo we keep on reading about Indian women torching themselves because of being mistreated by greedy in laws. In fact Indian parents prefer the boy child to the girl child. Go figure!
@@afrocoder well said💯
I think Genesis 29 talks about giving dowry 🙄🙄Since Jacob had no other major source of income at that time, he offered to work in exchange for Rachel as his wife. He understood it was the only offer he could make that would have appealed to Laban.
The Jacob, Leah and Rachel story is a horrible example of why people should support dowry. One, because of all the pain it caused the older sister Leah and her children. Two, Jacob’s father-in-law should have paid Jacob for his labor so that he would have some money for the young married couple to begin their married life. Instead the father-in-law took all his labor for free so Jacob did not have money. And Jacob had to work without pay all over again after the deception. That whole story was an example of bride price gone wrong on so many levels!
I Support This issue. At First i Was septikal about The issue until i came to understand. My father gave out goats but after 34yr they separated With my mother. It doent make sence🤷♀️
In this age of science we need to lab test dowry and find out what exactly it adds to a marital union. No mere sentimental attachments to culture.
I love your knowledge. It adds nothing. It's juz the demands of the laws and regulations of individual's tribes. It's spiritual illiteracy. A woman is reduced to a property rather than a partner. I wish we women will open our eyes. No money in this land of the living can buy a human being. Dowry has nothing to do with wife's security or respect from her husband otherwise many wives has faced brutal domestic violence evn to quiting their marriages anyway though the husband has paid everything for the dowry according their traditions Appreciating and thanking our parents is the key. We will give more than dowry.
It's patriarchy/geneology issue
I thought dowry is a sort of appreciation, not buying someone. It's high time people stopped twisting ideologies.
Apreciating what exactly my brother?? The wifes family too should apreciate your family for giving them a husband to their daughter
@@pharisngigi8107 exactly
It was not meant for appreciation,it was compensation for taking away a resource from the house hold
It should be appreciation..
But the problem is that appreciation is demanded….in some communities in a very aggressive way.
Appreciation for what? As a man gets a wife, a woman gets a husband. The whole issue of dowry isn’t biblical! God didn’t order payment of dowry in the garden neither did Jesus address the same in the New Testament. Just be a there were cultural instances in the Old Testament that showed dowry payment doesn’t make it godly
Pastor T is the only preacher I can side with. Real by the word.
AMEN PASTOR T ALL GLORY TO GOD
Kugura and kwendia hehehe The act of appreciation is the important thing
About dowry, I strongly disagree with Pastor T, dowry is very much Biblical.
When Abraham sent his servant to go and get a wife for his son from his distant cousins in Ur. Abraham's servant was given jewelry of silver, jewelry of gold and other precious things as dowry.
The story goes, after Rebekah family agreed to let their daughter go with Abraham's servant to be Isaac's wife. The Bible says... "Then the servant brought out jewelry of silver, jewelry of gold and clothing, and gave them to Rebekah. He also gave precious things to her brother and to her mother." (Genesis 22:53).
That’s true
I heard him say, 'hauendi kama umesima kama post ya stima'. To honor mean you appreciate your parents with say jeweler, money etc.
U missed a point,reread again
Even jacob worked for his uncle 14 years to get his 2 wifes
kumbe you dont listen 😅😅 he said honoring them
T Mwangi is knowledgeable
Just from watching Kifee talking about marriage, life is all about Perception 🤔
@ Scorpio Mwaniki Kifee can be toxic. Sometimes he gets it right sometimes he gets it wrong. And juu yake he sounds like he has issues with his parents- he sounds as Mom was domineering and Dad was a simp. I highly recommend taking Kifee with a pinch of salt.
@@lekis5975 I know that, thanks though. I occasionally watch him and avoid commenting since some behave like it's a cult over there and whatever he says is the correct and only acceptable thing to do or behave that way.
@@mwaniki9 LOL! You are right. I've noticed on some of these threads, Kenyans either act like sycophants or illiterates, applauding all manner of half baked ideas. Very disturbing. When you challenge some of them, they start saying they are there foro the LOLS! I don''t even know what to say anymore.
@@lekis5975 most of the information he says is true. For example women should be accountable, feminism, divorce cases and statistics, becoming a high value guy,men to stop simping and slaves to women, masculinity etc.
pastor t..hapo kwa dowry ziii.leo ata siskizi
Hata mimi haikuwa niskize., nimeskiza nikaona a lot of sense
These guys fight even the good culture.Thy want us to be west culture.For them they appreciate with a price but for us we buy at a price 🤔
Even Abraham, had to send his servant with gift to get his sons wife. Pastor T. I wish you can learn your culture like Paul in the Bible.
Thanks bcoz you've said it was a "gift" not payments as it is done with these wazee wa sikuizi. They want u to give half a million b4 taking their daughter as a wife!!
To me dowry is a token of appreciation n a way of saying thanks to the girls parents n showing respect hence not taking her for granted as if she is frm nowgere
A man has parents too why the girls parent not the mans. yet you as the man is taking off the Budden off their shoulders.
And who should appreciate males parents?
Who appreciates the males parents...si wao ni watu pia?
Pastor T, is a well of proved, researched and tested word of God
Researched? I don't think so
Ill-informed.
😂😂😂😂
@@tish2592 Sasa Tish, looking good
If Satan came inform of this man many will follow him
Kikuyu women kill their husbands every day but their men don't do anything about it
Kwanza Mimi sitapeleka dowerly,am feeding theire daughter,na mununulia nguo, living in my home free rent, she is driving my car, the girl parent should pay me not me paying them, period.
Basically dowery payment among many African communities is a traditional event which can not be excluded in our culture,it's an ancestrol traditions
M against it too. Give my parents a present but don't raise the bar to 'purchasing' me.
Please ask him to break down Christmas and relation to the birth of Jesus...just curious
Dowry as many have said is away of appreciation. But many tend to forget how it usually goes down in those rooms what we call negotiation. Negotiating with some a summation of items to offer in exchange of a woman. I also don't ascribe to that tradition.
thank you Mr T i will not pay also
🤣🤣🤣
KJV Bible - Exodus 22:16-17, Genesis 34:11-12, Genesis 29:16-28, Genesis 24:53-60, 1st Samuel 18:25, 2nd Samuel 3:14, These Bible verses clearly shows that dowry is a requirement to get a wife, daughters were not given free for marriage. Pastor T. Mwangi if you die without paying the dowry, that debt can take you to HELL FIRE 🔥🔥🔥🔥. Paying dowry is God's will.
Dowry is not a world wide concept. It's like buying a human being and owning them mostly man paying dowry for a wife, in asia most of them it's the other way round woman paying dowry for her husband. Watu wapendane kama mtu anaweza toa kitu as appropriation to both side its okay but should not be like a burden or a must.
"...kama mtu anaweza toa kitu as appreciation to both side it's okay, but should not be a burden or a must." 💯
I respect pastor T. However, he might be so good at things that can’t be proved, only believed.
so you believe men and women are equal
Ninja is out here misinforming people.
@@KingofZamunda. imagine if our grand dads were here
@@malachi6336 Mr T would have been cursed
@@KingofZamunda. the guy is so stupid, first of all buy saying dowry is slavery what he is saying is his grandmothers were slaves because his grandfathers payed dowry
That is true because I have sees
Pastor T is a wiseman
This is not over, the system is cracking
Dowry shouldn't be a must, considering the current economic situation. The modern global economic model is what has made dowry payment to become transactional. In the old days, dowry payment was a sign of appreciation and proof of financial capacity to take care of the woman you're marrying, and remember african society then, had a communal economic model. Those goats mostly came from the groom's father&uncles. That being said, na mwache kutoa sadaka pia, because God doesn't need it.
It's shouldn't be dowry but appreciations. Determined by the husband.
Weaker vessels , but God uses and still loves them
I refused to be ignorant so help me God in Jesus Christ name Amen 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 by Steve Irungu Jermaine
wisdom 💕💕
The truth🙏
I will never call my tradition slavery Its more like morality.
While the stories in the Bible is about a certain people who incorporated their traditions in the book. So your are telling me to leave my tradition and follow theirs. U must be sick in the head
I agreed Mr T
I will never pay dowry to me it's like slavery period by Steve Irungu Jermaine
Mwacha Mila ni mtumwa. You must pay dowry no matter what.
Paying dowry is marriage not this fashion of gowns and rings ....and if you don't pay dowry that is fornication
Your point?
Cos we fight for FGM to stop. Those communities consider FGM as mila.
But ikifika kwa dowry ndo unafeel ikiachwa ni mila itakuwa imevunjwa? 😂
@@afrocoder taking it out of the topic why don't you reason within the topic
Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins.
Dowry is more of appreciation than slavery..
And how is the man appreciated?
@@afrocoder The man is appreciated when the wife pushes out his big headed children out of her narrow birth canal so that his lineage and clan are extended!
Putting a price tag on a person? See how Stevo's ex-girlfriend is retailing at 2 million in these hard economic times
@@lekis5975
🙌 Nimeacha. I see your point. I respect that.
Lakini hapo kwa some families doing it for extortion is where we should change as society.
Kuna wale wazee wanakwamilia tu buana.
@@mwendwakiniu1936 You need to enlighten yourself. Dowry is a sign that our forefathers were advanced, and they respected women, unlike the white community and asian community where the WOMAN actually pays dowry.
Dowry is paid for a woman because WOMEN ARE THE CARRIERS of LIFE. As much as the man provides the sperm to fertilise the egg, it is the woman who carries the foetus for nine months and has to do deal with the vagaries of pregnancy ranging from morning illness, distended belly to nutritional deficiencies culminating in child birth. Women actually die in child birth, or sustain lifelong injuries eg fistulas. If they come through unscathed, they still have to contend with weight gain, stretch marks, breast feeding and breast sagging. Dowry is to mitigate for the loss that women experience.
A man is expected to pay dowry to the woman's family, to thank them for giving their daughter permission to take on the risk to extend his lineage! Children can only take on their father's name (or use his clan names and praises) once dowry has been paid.
Children belong to the father as evidenced by the fact that paternal DNA is dominant. However, dowry has to be paid and an animal has to be slaughter before the children can receive recognition from the paternal ancestors. If the man fail to pay dowry (or damages) then the children belong to her family and clan.
Once dowry has been paid, should the marriage breakdown and the woman decides to leave, she could not take the children with her.
Dowry also enabled a man to empower his wife by empowering through wealth (land and cattle).
Dowry included the transfer of land, this allowed woman to be independent sufficient to provide vegetables, fruit, grain, nuts and seeds, whilst men brought meat to the table. Our grandmothers went Dutch way before white women knew the meaning of the word. Meantime white women did not have the right to own land until about 150 years ago, that is why they were quick to embrace feminism so that they could fight for some rights.
Dowry also encourage men to respect virginity, and to avoid impregnating a woman they did not give like or love sufficient to enrich (land and cattle). If a man failed to pay dowry, then likewise his daughter would not be dowried.
I could go on, but I will leave it there. However, do yourself a favour and educate yourself instead of disparaging your self and by extension your ancestors and fundamentally your mother.
See how conflicted we are coz of following Christianity and a touch of tradition!!! Whites introduced their God to Africa and now we seem to know him more than those who even introduced it! We had our own way of life! You can't follow both!!!
The person who will marry his daughter aanze kujipanga
We just paid for my grandma
Dowry is culture and we can't do away with it
It's tym we do away with this religion thing
It is good to know that a human being can't exist without the society unless you're alien, then a man without culture and history dead. Look at the bible from Genesis Abraham sent his servant with treasures to Laban's home to ask for hand of marriage of Isaac, so did Jacob work for his wives. Please people let not all what the men of God sway you from being you. If we be so westernized then what will be our identity???
It was the right thing to
One thing i always say is that if our African religions were real and true..
They could have stood the test of time just like the Gospel of Jesus has and they could still exist right now. The Gospel of Jesus Christ reached our fore fathers, shook off whatever they had believed. They embraced Christianity and they converted.
@Nathaniel Did you study Religious Education? If you studied religious education, then you would have been taught the similarities between Traditional African Religion and Christianity.
The Old Testament espouses many traditional African customs eg rites of passage, respect for virginity, dowry, polygamy, wife inheritance, mourning, how to sacrifice animals to seal a covenant.
You lot love purport to embrace the Old Testament, you love to quote it, whilst at the same time claiming it was supplanted by the New Testament, schizophrenic much?
Before acting as if the Bible is the be all and end all, I suggest you find a JEW, and ask them why they crucified Jesus. When you find out you will realise that you have been being lied to about Christianity. Wishing you God speed.
@@lekis5975 yes i was taught .. but being similar doesn't mean same .If similarity was the standard of measure then, Christianity shares a lot with other religions too.. does it mean they are the same?
I still maintain, if our traditional religious system was the right one it could still exist. Traditional customs existed in every community. They just provided a moral accountability.
As much as i don't understand this part you mentioned but i don't have to find a jew to ask him/her why they crucified Jesus, It is clearly written in the Bible.It is clear in history too. I find it funny when you use the other side of the jews to try to make a point..the ones who didn't believe in Jesus.
Yet the few who believed in him through their work the gospel has spread to the whole world.
Nobody has lied to me about Christianity. Have found out for myself that it is the best decision i ever made. I can't deny they are people who have used Christianity in the wrong way but it doesn't mean the whole of it is a lie .
are you a christian?
@@nathanielahao I am Christian, in that I was raised as a Christian- baptism, holy communion, confirmation, getting saved. I am also a Christian in that the bible is my main reference form in my spiritual journey.
That said, at one point I struggled with Christianity, especially when I came of age and began to examine white supremacy (racism) in greater detail. Christianity was an instrument that used to perpetuate white supremacy. I have sort of come to terms with Christianity through Black Consciousness. BC helped me to somewhat see the connection between Christianity and Africa.
*It is disingenuous to argue that our customs only provided a moral accountability. Our customs were influenced by our traditional religion, which buttressed our spiritual grown and development, know that* .
In submission, I prefer to say, I practise spirituality rather than Christianity. I am open to views from different philosophies including Traditional African Religion and culture.
Nathaniel, it is disingenuous to argue that Christianity became widespread because it was/is superior. religion Truth is, *Christianity was advanced using deception, brain washing and the barrel of a gun!* Out of all teh indigenous groups, Africans got the brunt of it, what between slavery and colonisation. Although Indians were colonised they were allowed to maintain their culture, religion and language. Africans? Not to so much. The mental enslavement was TOTAL.
We were trained to believe we were less than, and treated as beasts of burden because our lips were thick, our noses were broad and our hair was curly! Even today, Asians are considered the model minority.
We were actively discouraged from speaking our languages, and encouraged to master English because as you think and speak, so you are. Also, it allowed Europeans to listen in on our conversations and act accordingly. Today, we insist on speaking English, never mind we have not quite mastered it (the way an English person speaks English is not the way we speak it), even worse, we lack the poetry, the lyricism, the wit of our mother tongue, which in turn results in coarse speech! Refined language enhances persuasive speech and actively promotes diplomacy... I mean look at the Tanzanians and they way they interact? Very gentle, polite and sophisticated, mean time Kenyans are just...fill in the blanks. LOL!
Europeans viciously wielded Christianity and formal education as a badge of enlightenment and honour, and they used it to divide and rule. In ancient Africa, we never looked down upon each others cultures. Even if one group conquered another, the conquerors would leave the conquered to carry on with their life, on the proviso that the conquered paid taxes, remained loyal and raised an army in times of war. We intermarried at will as evidenced in the similarities in language. Europeans , on the other hand looked down upon our culture and made it their mission to obliterate it, hence the reason why Christianity prospered! If they considered equals then they too would have done things like giving their children African names, practising our culture etc. Instead they actively promoted their culture, whilst stealing what was good from us without admitting it!
The New Testament is based on the Old Testament (Judaism) , the latter which really shows the similarity between so called Christianity and African culture. Yet, Christians are actively encouraged to elevate the New Testament over the Old Testament.
JEWS do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, because he failed to fulfill the signs as taught in the Talmud. Jesus was not the first to claim that he was the Messiah, but Simeon Ben Kosibah was the most convincing.
I find it strange that Christians stay claiming Christ, yet they don't seem to fully understand his link to Judaism, or interrogate why he was rejected by the Jews sufficient to analyse to the conflict between the Old and New Testament.
As far as I'm considered Christ is a prophet, a revolutionary and a philosopher. I embrace the bible because it encapsulates my values which are similar to the values of my ancestor. Am I Christian? Not really.
@@lekis5975
This is quite long. And i really appreciate you replying back. I wouldn’t pretend that i know everything about christianity but I pray for Gods guidance when in doubt as i learn more.
AFRICAN TRADITIONAL RELIGIOUS SYSTEM AND CHRISTIANITY
I don’t want to generalize all our traditional customs , i want us to specifically stay on the religious aspect part.
I think you are misunderstanding me when i say that christianity has stood the test of time while the traditional religious system has not. What am saying is: if the traditional religous sytem was right, today it could still exist. For example not so many of us appreciate our cultures. Despite many of us not embracing it, it still exist because some people still hold to it and theY feel its not worthy letting it go. Christianity has stood the test of time, history tells us how many times powerfull people have tried to interfere with it and they have misreabely failed. From bringing up speculations to persercuting and killing christians. All these challenges have never stopped christianity from spreading or growing. Christianity overcame it all. Am not saying our traditional religios system failed because of white supremacy which favoured christianity. White supremacy never favoured christianity, traditional religious belief just failed when the real deal came. Also remember during colonization when africans were not allowed to attend white churches they built their own. If the traditional religious system was so important why did they built churches yet the colonizers didn’t allow them in their own?
CHRISTIANITY,WHITE SUPREMACY,COLONIZATION,MISSIONARIES AND AFRICANS
Christianity never thrived because of white supremacy. If i may ask, between the colonizers and the missionaries who came to africa first? And if it thrived because it was superior then am i right to assume all whites are christians? Also why do you say that christianity is a superior religion? history tells us how christians have suffered in different generations. For example Nero the roman emperor persecuted christians and not only him there are more of such people. If it was superior, why not deffend its members from the attrocities committed against them by people like Nero? Africans got the brunt for resisting colonization not for refusing christianity. Colonization is not related to christianity at all. I think you are mixing colonization and the missionaries. It is wrong for you to say that christianity used deception, brainwashing and conversion at gun point. Have you not heard about the matrys of uganda when Kabaka the then ruler killed about 70 believers. This was long before colonization - 1886 to be exact. That was like 2 decades before colonization. The colonizers didn’t care about religion they only cared about those who collaborated and accepted to be colonized. If you resisted you got crushed if you couldn’t defend yourself.
When you say ‘Europeans viciously wielded christianity and formal education as a badge of enlightment and honor’. Why woul you generalize the act of a few people to the whole christiany futhermore all the europeans who came to africa, were they all christians? And how did africans respond when they were not accepted in such institutions. They built their own including churches. Ethiopia was never colonized why is christianity the most accepted. Is it because of white supremacy?It is true europeans looked down on the african culture but christianity has nothing to do with that. How did christianity aid in slavery? Tanzanians are polite because of the president they had, Julius kambarage nyerere. He promoted the spirit of ujamaa - familyhood this greatly brought about that harmony. In kenya our first 2 presidents did not promote unity and thats why during political seasons like now we are uneasy. The first missionaries after reaching african they learnt the local languages and translated the bible to those languages. Which is different from what the colonizers did.And again you are mixing colonization with christianity and missionary work.
Christianity was not an instrument used to perpertuate white supremacy, white supremacy never favoured any race. It’s only a tool for the few rich whites. Again are all whites christians? And if you are a poor white does white supremacy favour you? White supremacy is a tool to rule the mases - divide and rule. It doesn’t care about race it only favours the rich. Also, if christianity was used to brainwash, deceive and convert at gun point, how comes it was not used when america was colonised by the british, Why did they not convert the red indians they found there yet this was before they thought of coming to africa? What of slavery? Slavery existed long before colonization. It dates back to 15th centuary. Africans who practiced traditional religious system saw it right to sell their fellow africans to arabs and whites.
JEWS AND JESUS
Not all jews accepted Jesus, some did. Why did Jesus come to earth? He was the messiah talked about in the old testament. Most jews failed to recognize jesus as the messiah because from what they had been taught by their teachers- the pharisees and the saducees was misleading. The jews who did not believe Jesus as the messiah thought that the messiah was to be an actual jewish king who would lead them to battles and protect them from their enemies. Most of the jews rellied on what they were taught by the pharisees. When Jesus came he fullfilled all the promises about him mentioned in the old testament. Not a single one remained.(Jesus did not practice judaism, if he did then him and the pharisees would have synced.Christianity came after death of Jesus)The old and new testament don’t conflict they both speak the same message. Judaism and christianity are not the same they are different. Christ is not a prophet , he is the son of God, the Messiah promised. Nobody actively encourages christians to elevate new testament over old testament. Those who do , don’t know what they are doing. To christians or churches who don’t read the the old testament should self reflect on themselve and change, both the old and new testament are equally important.
MY CONCLUSION
Information is power, the wrong information can corrupt your mind. It is right to question.
I think the sources of your information is mixed somehow. You are mixing different occurences and blamming it on christianity.colonization has nothing to do with christianity same to both slavery and racism. For a long time christianity has been the scapegoat. But not anymore, theres access to information. If you don’t mind me asking you to reconsider your faith in Jesus - asking the questions to the right people will answer all the questions you have about christianity.
@@nathanielahao I have quickly skimmed over your post. I'm a bit busy right now and I will respond within the next 24 hrs. I must confess I'm horrified by some of the things you've said, you're either young or very naive. I hope it's the latter.
I have just learnt from the comments that people hear a lot of things but listen to nothing..pasi is not against Dowry rather he is against the concept and notion of many African Families on dowry...I support You Sir dowry should be paid as a token of appreciation and not be negotiated as many do.... Those saying Jacob worked for 14years why are you not telling us the real reason he worked for 14years.... When you negotiate for a human being is the same as buying them(SLAVERY).
Bro the ninja didn't pay dowry! What are you even saying?
@@KingofZamunda. ni kizungu ngumu ama, Pasi is against the concept of negotiation in most African cultures;pay dowery as honor not as buying the girl,when you find girls relatives asking for certain conditions to be met ndo uende na msichana,do they mean if I meet the condition i can do anything to her since i met the condition.
@@angelmichael2404 You know he misses the point of how dowry came to be, no one was being bought in the days of our ancestors. The honouring is a washy washy term he is using for his misleading agenda. You paying dowry means, you are compensating the ladys family for loosing a human resource, and to some extent, it shows that you as a man is able to take care of the lady. She can go back to her parents but that would mean that the dowry paid is returned as well(some ethnic groups have this inplace).
This is soooo right 100%
Slavery to me it's a modern day slavery to me it's a hell NO period by Steve Irungu Jermaine
This is one of the reasons why our society is decaying by trying to accept foreign religions and culture.
Paster T has spoken too much contradicting himself
A good dancer no matter how good u are at dancing u should know when to leave the stage🤣🤣🤣
Dowry is not to buy but to appreciate the parents and that’s why dowry has no end kijana
Pastor T ...you better listen and listen carefully to this man...judgement is coming be prepared stock up oil for your lampes like the wise virgins...let those who have ears hear
Dowry is a must blessings are bought at a price.
This is how it should be done; the man takes his bride to his parents, they go and appreciate (token) the man's parents. He introduce her to entire family. He then go to the brides parents, appreciate them and ask for her hand in marriage as respect. He then goes and they be joined as husband and wife. This is what Christians should do but not to follow traditions of men which bible tells us to keep away from. But if you don't believe in Christ, you are already a slave to all those traditions. I have two sons and one daughter, all grown and this what I teach them. And we are kikuyus and we won't do traditions to please men. NO! Christ has set us free from the curse of the law!