@@charlesmartin1121it's the questions most guys ask themselves when looking at .308's. instead of reading forum posts from 2011, he goes out and shoots to find things out himself.
Same here man. We all have the same questions and dudes like this are out here doing the Lord's work and gathering the data for us. My longest possible shot will be an Alaska hunt next year but all my spots around here are under 200yds. 16" barrel for me, and now I feel confident because I wanted a lighter system than my bolt 308 with the option to rapid fire at hogs.
I always wished my 16" ar10 had a 20" barrel. But for the distances that I shoot at, your video proves that I don't need the 20". Thanks for all the detail.
I have a DPMS AR-10 with an 18" barrel. I made consistent hits on an 16" gong at 1123 yds. Then I went after an 8" gong at the same distance. I hit it 8 out of 10 times. The rifle loves the 185 gr Federal GMM.@@DerekEvan
Having a 16” and 20” in the arsenal is never a bad thing. Different barrels for different jobs. Really great content. Super impressed with the no nonsense approach to your videos.
80 fps difference at the barrel, if it happens from the 16' it'll happen from the 20' about 30 ft later. Like the man said, there's basically no difference. Would be neat to measure energy on impact though. @@armstrong2052
Never seen your channel before, but this was a really solid video. Straightforward, no fluff, good information. The two barrel lengths are surprisingly close out to 1000 or so. I don't ever see myself shooting beyond half a mile or so where I live, so I think I'll be putting a 16" on my build. I was also impressed by the Arken scope. I keep seeing affiliate marketing for them which always sets off scam alarm bells in my head, but looks like it actually tracked well and has decent glass.
In the video, the Arken looks like its holding its own against the nightforce. Seems like less distortion at the longer distances. Great video. Love your content
You are hitting home runs with these videos again keep up the good work your format and delivery makes all the difference in how easy they are to watch and gain knowledge from you have a decisive edge over many other players in this space that don’t have your skill set or personality well done sir
So, for a compact lite weight bolt action rifle, for treks and precision shooting, a 308 16 inch is plenty to get me out to 800 yards and beyond, dependent on ammo and skill. Love the video man. Good job.
You are a top notch presenter, very clear and concise with the information. Love how thorough, yet simple you make your presentations. Good job mate and God Bless America! I’m building a 20” 308 now so I’m thankful you made this video and explained the differences between the BC’s and velocity. Helped me to understand that velocity isn’t always king
Oh yea and I have a 16” as well. Both of mine will have aero precision barrels for now. Looking into an upgrade for the 20” in the future. I’ll keep an eye out for more ammo and barrel content from you!
I like that you speak as an informed professional, without getting excessively excited over nothing like most other channels. I found this to be both informative and interesting to watch. Great job. New subscriber.
I like your straight up no frills , no BS approach to presenting the information. A lot of you tube channels have reached the point of infomercials and just turn me off. Keep doing what you are doing and keep the fancy production silliness out of it. Makes for much better watching for me. Thanks.
Great work! Thank you for putting out great information. 20" for 800 yards and farther vs 16" for less than 800 yards is a solid assessment. I may just go with a Ruger SFAR in 16" because of this info.
I got the Ruger SFAR 16" based on an ex-marine's advice and don't regret it. It shoots 1/2" groups at 100yds with the Norma Tactical ammo. The ex-marine told me that under 1000yds, the 16" will compete just fine.
Booom! I was looking at the ruger sfar 16” or the 20” for being a first rifle I don’t think I’d need to reach out past 800. So for maneuverability I think 16” would be fine!
Thank you for a wonderful review. Information on the 308 in a 16" vs 20" was exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for not just shooting steel at range but also including velocity and groups at 100 yards. Us old guys love that. Very high quality and professional review.
Seeing that the right rounds can stretch the legs of a 308 was nice. My take away is if pushing past 800 yards is your wheelhouse, then opt for a 20"+. Not that a 16" can't do it, but 20" will be more forgiving with environmental variables.
The Arken EP5 has been really good to me so far. Took about 5 weeks to get it but they originally said it would be 3 so it’s understandable with supply chain issues lately. Hopefully they don’t start jacking the prices up as their popularity grows. Love your content, keep up the good work.
I have three rifles in 308W, 18”, 20”, and a bolt gun 22” barrel. Love them all, the AR-10 with the 18” barrel is better slightly lighter, but I am a bolt guy.
@rudolphferdinand3634 If the damn sbr/sbs crap gets ruled unconstitutional, I'm curious if 16" wouldn't go obsolete. Lol Rifles and Carbines both have their purposes. 18" covers the middle ground pretty good. Bolt guns are fun.
@@Standforwhatsright33 Depends entirely on the cartridge being used. For 5.56 16" is actually quite a good length. I don't think going below 14.5" is advisable for a cartridge which was designed around high velocities, even if you can compensate for SBR shortcomings with (extremely expensive) 77gr loads.
If it's battle rifle AR 10, it's going to be 16 w/ suppressor, I'll prob get an inch worth velocity alone out of the suppressor otherwise it'll be bolt action, in which case I want 24"
Awesome content. Barrel length, zero distances, calibers…perfect for all of us engineering and design space nerds. Only some of us don’t have the scratch for a pair of SR25s…I feel inadequate with my Larue 18” Match
You shouldn't. Your rifle is upper teir. Don't let the marketing and brag hype get to you. Some people cannot stop spewing how nice their expensive rifle is, in part, because they have to continually justify the cost. Especially if they putnitnon a CC.
Bros out here hitting small targets at 1200 yards with a semi auto using factory ammo. Most people struggle to hit a 24" gong at a 1000 yards with a bolt action bench gun using hand loads. Crazy impressive my man! You're one hell of a shot! Love the content, excited to see more!
I had a 16-inch and a 20-inch AR in 308 that I used for hog hunting. 90% of my shots are under 300 yards. I wasn't happy with either of those rifles so I built one myself. I went with a Mega Maten-matched upper, lower, and handguard set as the base. I decided to split the difference on the barrel and went with an 18-inch JP Ultra Match. I couldn't be happier with the outcome. I run hand-loaded Barnes 130-grain TTSX bullets right at 2,900 FPS. I consistently get 5-round 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards and they are devastating on game. Great video straight to the point with all the relevant information. Thank you for all the work put into it.
Question? I’m looking to buying another rifle for both home defense and hunting. I’m thinking 308 because of stopping power and a 16’ barrel. Seeing you had both. What’s your thoughts on this? I was looking at trying my hands on getting a 8.6 blackout but it’s out of my price range at this moment. If you don’t mind sharing your thoughts.
This video is spot on, I argue for a shorter 308 for mid range all the time. I run an Aero with a JPE 16" Stainless Steel barrel with the JP heat dissipater and Odin adjustable GB. I have had consistent success out to 860 yards and in and have had sub moa 10 round groups with 155 grn match ammo and 1 moa with 168 smk and 1.5 moa 178 eld-x. My twist rate is copied from the German H&K DMR at 11.25" which allows for greater accuracy with lighter bullets and the ability to use M882 ball fmj without a tremendous loss in accuracy. (2-3 moa) Very usable rig and have taken several whitetail with it.
Yep, great content. At 1,220yds, looks like wind was shifting on ya. I have both 16" and 20". But the 2 16"ers I have are Aero. 20" is KAC. Thanks for helping me figure where I should transition. 600 is as far as I could shoot round here. 16"ers do fine out to there.
You must have read my thoughts with this topic/vid. I was contemplating weather to re barrel my 308 to a 6.5 because I wanted to have the capability to reach out pat 1K. While I don't have a high end rig, I will at least see how capable my sticks are with better loads before I opt to swap out parts. You definitely make it look way easier than it is and it's great to see sponsors also take notice of your growing channel.
Great video. My personal rig runs an 18" barrel. I originally built it with a 16" SASS barrel but wasn't happy with the longer range accuracy and the weight was horrific. The 18" medium contour is a couple of ounces lighter and the velocity gain is about 60FPS. It's every bit as accurate as the SASS as long as you are not doing mag dumps.
Thanks for this comparison- I've just recently gotten an M1A SOCOM and had been building worries about range performance compared to the full length. Unfounded! Where I am, typical distances would be under 500yrds, so this comparison was soothing. Great breakdown of methods, I very much enjoyed this.
Even without the comparison to any high dollar optics, I couldn't agree more with you on Arken for most use cases. I often practice with a RPR in 22lr to get trigger time I can afford and to get better reading wind. At 385m it needs 24 mils of elevation. I can still dial all of that, and it's rock solid in terms of repeatedly dialing back. Thanks for covering the range of gear from really pricey to really accessible. It's appreciated
First off really appreciate you supporting the channel, it doesn’t go unnoticed! The EP8 is a great lpvo, I’m still really happy with mine so it’s cool to hear your experience is equally as good!
You’re very quickly becoming my favorite guntuber. Your videos actually ask and answer questions rather than just promoting different products like most.
Man this is just what I needed. I’ve been watching a lot of your videos lately because I wanted to build a rifle to shoot 1000 yds next year. I’d already locked in on the Arken EP 5-25 I have the SH 6-24 and two Vortex DBT 6-24. Not high end but that’s what I’ve got. I was thinking 6MM ARC or 6.5 creedmoor but will probably try my 16” AR10 first now. I’ve watched your videos on those calibers already too. Hell maybe I’ll build a 18” 308 rifle. I’ve never been a fan of long barrels. I see the data but long barrels aren’t my thing. I’ve shared with family and friends and we love the videos. Thanks for the content.
Exactly my thoughts 👀 Currently building a 18” ar 10 .308. Ordered the Arken EP5 scope for it too after researching for a couple weeks. Can’t wait to get to the range with this beast when I get it done :)
Great video layout! It's awesome that you show different camera positions- the reticle, target, and you firing- all on the same screen. Liked the discussion at the end too, thanks for a great video!! Subscribed for sure
In my area, a 300 yard shot is long due to trees and hills. So I am happy to have a 16” to move easier as it can do the job at the distances in my location. Thanks for the info. Always nice to get educated in the topic.
The NF definitely seemed to have less CA, but that should be expected for the difference in cost. The Arken reticle is okay, but I prefer .2 hashes or even the .25 mil of the Leupold PR-2. As far as performance. I felt the 16” did just fine. It’s hard to give much feedback at 1220 yds since you were well past the transonic range; rounds do weird things in that space and you could have did everything perfectly. Realistically, probably the same for the 20”; I haven’t looked at the calculator to see the retained velocity for that barrel length, but I would wager it was transonic shortly after 1,000 yards. Still, the little extra velocity of the longer barrel length and the precision of that particular rifle bought you some forgiveness at those extended ranges. Great stuff man; I always enjoy your content.
You’re drunk the archon’s are bad ass for the money. Many people including myself have said they’re punching well about the weight class near $1000 glass.
I had a Ruger SFAR and sold it, just felt cheap and the gas system was finicky. I have a 16" Stag 10 .308, Vortex 6-24x50 ffp mrad for distance, then use my Leupold Mark 3HD 4-12x40 Firedot TMR for hunting. I swap the scopes with QD bases when needed, and return to zero is acceptable, then easily tuned in. This is a straight-up 1 MOA 16" rifle with decent ammo, and is stable enough for distance shooting. Excellent video and super informative.
So 600-750m is a good active engagement distance in real world situation so this video prove if you need a riffle to do it all 16” is more than enough competition shooting or consistency above 1000 go 20”. This also shows setup properly and trading you can do a lot with the 16 and transition to close engagement and maneuverability
thanks for the thought out video as always and really enjoy your channel. I’m still a neophyte to getting into all this versus that stuff. It’s what happens when you’re away from shooting for many years. What I’ve come to recently go with as far as 308 it’s like you said, if you’re staying under a certain distance, say 500 yards, I’ll go with a 16 inch all day. However and it probably just depends on manufacturer in my case I use LMT and their barrel weights are not that much different, so why limit myself. I just go with 20” for the 308. It covers most distances I intend to cover.
I have a similar quality build on a 20" Faxon w/ an Arken Ep5/, minus suppressor. I'll try to attain similar results when I have the yard. you're an inspiration. thx for posting.
I really enjoy your videos! Feeling pretty good about my 16” Ruger SFAR .308 and my Arken SH-4 My 165gr hand loads hold sub moa at 100yds. I’m still practicing at 300yds I am very new to long range shooting.
Out to 1035 they both did well. But the 20" barrel did much better at 1220. But where I'm at down here in southern Arizona. I'm thinking my 16" is all I'm ever going to need. Great presentation. I hadn't seen your channel before. I'm glad I found you. I'll be checking you out more in the future. Bo Johnson ~ Tucson, AZ
Really cool video. I have a 16" AR10 in 308 I built myself(Faxon heavy fluted barrel and Lantac BCG. No trouble hitting 1000yds IPSC repeatedly with my 178gr ELD-M handloads. I would be curious to try the A-TIP with the higher BC, but at more than 2x the cost it isn't happening anytime soon. Standard 175gr GMM becomes a little more tricky with decent wind but still very doable. Anything past 1000yds I would be using my 300 win mag.
I really like this kind of content. Doing a lot of legwork for me. Arken is doing great things for the money no doubt. Only thing that was a slight downer in this case was the 20” is an accurate match barrel/chamber and the 16” isn’t so the comparison could have been a little better but still very much enjoyed it
I mean I was kind of surprised how well the 16" barrel did. Also, you're a great shooter. Thanks for the amazing review and very detailed oriented video.
Great video. Best one I have seen on this subject. And your edit and level of detail is flawless. I went with the 18" .308 gas gun and love it. our DOPE is very similar. thanks again.
Recently aquired a 12.75" 308 PWS MK212, slapped on a 1-8 PA PLX, and a HUXWRX 7.62Ti. Absolutely love it. Soon I'll chrono it out and select my hunting ammo bullet weight but for my practical 25-300yard do it all rifle, I don't see a downside besides weight against an AR15. I would prefer 6.5CM but oh well.
I was just thinking the same thing for 16 vs 20” barrels on 308, and I’m surprised my theory was pretty close to what the results were. I just ordered a 20” criterion barrel and stoked to build out a 20” more precision based upper and also have a 16” battle rifle upper. Love your channel btw!
Loved the video. My thoughts on the barrel lengths are > a 20" to me is a dedicated long range where the 16" is more suited to somewhat closer ranges, lighter and more maneuverable in tight places > all things everybody all ready knows. Having said that, I like the idea of an 18" barrel in that platform and is what I would like to get for myself one day. 18" would be a happy balance between the two, sort of a do all, good at everything barrel length for that platform, unless you need the gun to perform a specific roll. And I'm very impressed with that Arken optic. Good job with video
Hard to say for sure but it almost looks like the Arken is clearer out at distance. As usual, your videos are a great resource for facts without fluff. Thanks for your hard work on these!
To be fair that’s not representative of what I’m seeing through the scope. The image through the NF is distorted due to the triggercam… in person the NF has the clearer glass. Main takeaway though is the arken is very usable and capable to distance.
My dd5v3 done good with the hornady 178gr bthp runnin 2158fps and made 1st rd impact @1k holdin 32moa ontop of dialin 25….printed a 3” 3rd at 520 with factory white bx match 178gr…so I tried duplicating that before having a crono and went off pressure sign and grouping and is how I ended at the minuscule 2150fps..lol. Your ideas and rifles are bang on mine brother…I wish you the best holidays and can’t wait for the next one…matt
Really enjoy your videos and the content they contain. Watching you effortlessly smackin' 1000yrds makes me want to see you travel down to try out the Texas Plinking 1000 Yrd Challenge. BTW, what twist rates are on the barrels? If you told us, I missed it and too lazy to go back and listen. I have been trying to work up some loads for my friend's new Remington 700 build with a 16" 308. Its a 1:12 and we are not having much luck. lol.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch! I believe the twist rate on both barrels is 1 in 11.25”. On the texas plinking challenge go back and check out the first shooter in episode 1 and let me know what you think! I think be excited!
Thanks for the video. I was contemplating putting a 20 on mine, but for the distance I shoot you proved a 16 is plenty. After watching this I think spending the barrel money on ammo and improving my shooting is more ideal.. It’s also nice to see the Arken hold its own with a better high end scope. I have no doubt the high end scope is better, but it’s nice to see options for people on a budget or not as picky on glass clarity and such. Nice shooting Hoss..
ANOTHER exemplary example of virtually ALL the differences between bbl length AND ballistics. Nothing I can add at all..and a LOT of envy on your equipment..OR “tool(s)” of choice! I KNOW Tiborasaurus Rex has been pushing Arken for some time now. HE has only “talked” specifics that I’m aware of whereas THIS is real world. MUCH appreciated on some great video editing!
The Arken EP5 is an amazing scope. I’ve been running one for about a year and it looks as good as or better than a couple other scopes I have that are 3x the price. I liked it so much I got another one!
I'm glad to see the performance at range is this close. I have a 1-6 scope on my 16" 308, so I am not thinking about shooting past 300 yards or so (also due to shooting copper rounds out of this thing, and those have a velocity requirement which my rifle imposes a range limit of around 300 yards anyway). I would like to get a 1-10 at some point. I don't really want to give up the 1x, but I could see myself settling for a really good 2-12. Great content, man! Keep it coming.
Do you shoot those ultra high velocity 110-115 grain copper solid 308 rounds? It makes 308 a laser to 450 yards. Like 3200 fps and probably messes stuff up harder than any creedmoor this or that within that distance due to better energy transfer.
I've got one AR-10 20in long range gun with razor HD gen 2 scope, and I have another rifle that will be complete when I put a barrel and handguard on it. I really want a 16In barrel (or 14.7 pinned) close range with red dot or possibly my Eotech EXPS 3-0 for a CQB version AR-10. Great shooting, Thanks for the video ! I noticed at 1200 with the 16 you had quite a bit more wind, and when you missed with the 20 a few times there was almost no wind downrange.
Nice to see that a lil ole 308 can reach out that far with any sort of accuracy. With all the 28 Nosler, 300 WinMag, 300 PRC...etc, it's refreshing to see someone work a 308 so well. Great shooting!
Excellent comparison, thank you! I would really like to you put the 20" APR against the SR-25 6.5 22" upper, which I believe you also have. We know that the 6.5 will be more efficient. I'd like to see to what extent this translates into your hit percentage @ 1,000 yards between the two. Maybe extend this comparison with the Ally cartridges as well. I've been on wait lists for both uppers for over a year now. Hopefully next year will be better for their availability.
I would love to see this video with some popular hunting loads. I'm curious how far out you can reach with .308 and still maintain around 1500ftlbs of energy with a 16" AR10.
What really stands out to me is that both of those guns have very tight elevation groups even at 1200yds , the SD's were good so the ammo certainly has the potential for consistency but the barrels (and shooter) have to be good to benefit from it. Wind is wind its very hard to read especially out in open terrain like that when you don't have a mirage to help so missing an 18.25" wide plate at 1200 is very easy to do because it doesn't take much wind that is basically impossible to account for to push you off. Great shooting, way to represent Washington as you did on the 1 MOA at 1000 challenge.
Great video! Still in the research phase of my build… This video has really helped me narrow down my decision. Thanks for the information, brother keep up the great work!
A possible consideration. If you are running a Primary Arms Scope with the etched BDC reticle, 150g grain bullets need to travel at 2650-2700fps. For 168g your fps needs to be 2600-2650. I was shooting 168hpbt and it's a challenge to get the fps high enough with a 16" barrel to use the BDC reticle. Varget is too slow, RL15 is ok, Rl17 is ok and 4064 is slow, need to run compressed loads with all powders. If I was buying another .308AR I would go with a 20" barrel (18 might be the sweet spot).
I inherited a Ruger gunsite scout with a 16in barrel that I planned on using for big game hunting out west. I was really worried it wouldn’t be able to poke out to long distances but this has entirely changed my mind and I realize that practice will make up any difference in performance from a 20in.
Thank you great video. I just bought my first AR-10 (palmetto) and 5-25x52 scope specifically for shooting 1000 yards. Based on this video, I might need to find an even bigger range to get out to 1200+ yds. I do not plan to spend the dollars though, I plan to use the primary arms mill grid for my holds.
If you dont plan on shooting past 750yard 16 inches is incredibly versatile. Ive shot out to 1200 with 16 inch and will be upgrading to a 20inch barrel. The AR i get will be for close to mid range in .223, i have a sig cross and that is my go to for long range days for the .308. If you are a hunter or simply plan on removing hogs or coyotes a 16 inch is all thats needed as you dont need to take those shots out past 500 yards. If you are doing more canyon to canyon shots, then the 20 is worth it. At the end of the day, do what you want. Very informative video. Ide say a 16 with a suppressor is better than a 20 inch for a majority of hunters/ target guys.
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I swear this dude is just answering the questions I have in my head and have been pondering for a while. It's a little weird, and I'm here for it.
Me too.
@@charlesmartin1121it's the questions most guys ask themselves when looking at .308's. instead of reading forum posts from 2011, he goes out and shoots to find things out himself.
..he KNOWS handling AND shooting long rifles, ballistics’ and HOW to run a shooting channel FOR SURE.
Same here man. We all have the same questions and dudes like this are out here doing the Lord's work and gathering the data for us. My longest possible shot will be an Alaska hunt next year but all my spots around here are under 200yds. 16" barrel for me, and now I feel confident because I wanted a lighter system than my bolt 308 with the option to rapid fire at hogs.
Same!
I've been eyeing the new Ruger SFAR for awhile, and of course barrel length is near the top of my list of questions.
I always wished my 16" ar10 had a 20" barrel. But for the distances that I shoot at, your video proves that I don't need the 20". Thanks for all the detail.
I went 18” on mine
I have a DPMS AR-10 with an 18" barrel. I made consistent hits on an 16" gong at 1123 yds. Then I went after an 8" gong at the same distance. I hit it 8 out of 10 times. The rifle loves the 185 gr Federal GMM.@@DerekEvan
I swapped my 20” AR 10 upper for a 16” upper, and glad I did!
I think the 20 in barrel with a brake on it makes those ar 10s look so sweet
what gas system length do you have on 18?@@mrhounddog8271
A 100 fps difference in a 16" vs 20" means 50 yards in range difference. Every 100 yards of range is 200fps for a 308 Win. Very nice review.
Having a 16” and 20” in the arsenal is never a bad thing. Different barrels for different jobs. Really great content. Super impressed with the no nonsense approach to your videos.
Not seeing that much difference
@@Mills141because this was to a 1k distance the super to subsonic traverse is just past 1k. So it wouldn't have been observed in the video.
80 fps difference at the barrel, if it happens from the 16' it'll happen from the 20' about 30 ft later. Like the man said, there's basically no difference. Would be neat to measure energy on impact though. @@armstrong2052
@@Frindleeguy I think that’s the interesting question. How much energy is actually delivered.
I go with the 20inch bull pup.
I am impressed with the system capability, the skill of the shooter, and the video presentation.
Never seen your channel before, but this was a really solid video. Straightforward, no fluff, good information. The two barrel lengths are surprisingly close out to 1000 or so. I don't ever see myself shooting beyond half a mile or so where I live, so I think I'll be putting a 16" on my build.
I was also impressed by the Arken scope. I keep seeing affiliate marketing for them which always sets off scam alarm bells in my head, but looks like it actually tracked well and has decent glass.
Go watch more. You won’t be disappointed.
I have 2 Arken optics and I’m really impressed. Solid build quality, tracts very well, and the glass is surprisingly good.
After watching I decided to go 18
You made a good choice because this Guy frigging GOOD!
I went with the 16 and I couldn't be happier but here in South Mississippi it's hard to get over a 600yd shot
I think overall the 16 incher is a better package
18"
In the video, the Arken looks like its holding its own against the nightforce. Seems like less distortion at the longer distances. Great video. Love your content
You are hitting home runs with these videos again keep up the good work your format and delivery makes all the difference in how easy they are to watch and gain knowledge from you have a decisive edge over many other players in this space that don’t have your skill set or personality well done sir
So, for a compact lite weight bolt action rifle, for treks and precision shooting, a 308 16 inch is plenty to get me out to 800 yards and beyond, dependent on ammo and skill. Love the video man. Good job.
I was worried about getting a compact 16” 308 for short work but you calmed my worries. Great video!
You are a top notch presenter, very clear and concise with the information. Love how thorough, yet simple you make your presentations. Good job mate and God Bless America! I’m building a 20” 308 now so I’m thankful you made this video and explained the differences between the BC’s and velocity. Helped me to understand that velocity isn’t always king
Oh yea and I have a 16” as well. Both of mine will have aero precision barrels for now. Looking into an upgrade for the 20” in the future. I’ll keep an eye out for more ammo and barrel content from you!
I like that you speak as an informed professional, without getting excessively excited over nothing like most other channels. I found this to be both informative and interesting to watch. Great job. New subscriber.
I like your straight up no frills , no BS approach to presenting the information. A lot of you tube channels have reached the point of infomercials and just turn me off. Keep doing what you are doing and keep the fancy production silliness out of it. Makes for much better watching for me. Thanks.
Reminds me of how Paul Harrell would do videos, as opposed to the flashy, gimmicky long intros and such, which are ok sometimes also.
Great work! Thank you for putting out great information. 20" for 800 yards and farther vs 16" for less than 800 yards is a solid assessment. I may just go with a Ruger SFAR in 16" because of this info.
I got the Ruger SFAR 16" based on an ex-marine's advice and don't regret it. It shoots 1/2" groups at 100yds with the Norma Tactical ammo. The ex-marine told me that under 1000yds, the 16" will compete just fine.
Booom! I was looking at the ruger sfar 16” or the 20” for being a first rifle I don’t think I’d need to reach out past 800. So for maneuverability I think 16” would be fine!
I went with the 16” SFAR, and what an amazing rifle it is! You won’t regret it.
Thank you for a wonderful review. Information on the 308 in a 16" vs 20" was exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for not just shooting steel at range but also including velocity and groups at 100 yards. Us old guys love that. Very high quality and professional review.
Seeing that the right rounds can stretch the legs of a 308 was nice. My take away is if pushing past 800 yards is your wheelhouse, then opt for a 20"+. Not that a 16" can't do it, but 20" will be more forgiving with environmental variables.
The Arken EP5 has been really good to me so far. Took about 5 weeks to get it but they originally said it would be 3 so it’s understandable with supply chain issues lately. Hopefully they don’t start jacking the prices up as their popularity grows. Love your content, keep up the good work.
In my opinion for AR 10's and 15's sounding like 18" might be the sweet spot.
I have three rifles in 308W, 18”, 20”, and a bolt gun 22” barrel. Love them all, the AR-10 with the 18” barrel is better slightly lighter, but I am a bolt guy.
@rudolphferdinand3634 If the damn sbr/sbs crap gets ruled unconstitutional, I'm curious if 16" wouldn't go obsolete. Lol Rifles and Carbines both have their purposes. 18" covers the middle ground pretty good. Bolt guns are fun.
@@Standforwhatsright33 Depends entirely on the cartridge being used. For 5.56 16" is actually quite a good length. I don't think going below 14.5" is advisable for a cartridge which was designed around high velocities, even if you can compensate for SBR shortcomings with (extremely expensive) 77gr loads.
@@Standforwhatsright33I feel like my 16 in ar isn’t too long…until I put a suppressor on it then it feels like a pike
If it's battle rifle AR 10, it's going to be 16 w/ suppressor, I'll prob get an inch worth velocity alone out of the suppressor
otherwise it'll be bolt action, in which case I want 24"
Awesome content.
Barrel length, zero distances, calibers…perfect for all of us engineering and design space nerds.
Only some of us don’t have the scratch for a pair of SR25s…I feel inadequate with my Larue 18” Match
You shouldn't. Your rifle is upper teir. Don't let the marketing and brag hype get to you. Some people cannot stop spewing how nice their expensive rifle is, in part, because they have to continually justify the cost. Especially if they putnitnon a CC.
Word, he's rocking some badass kit.😅
This video sold me on Arken scopes. Been looking at them for a current rifle I’m working on. Great video! Cheers from TX!
The lpvo is great to
Bros out here hitting small targets at 1200 yards with a semi auto using factory ammo. Most people struggle to hit a 24" gong at a 1000 yards with a bolt action bench gun using hand loads. Crazy impressive my man! You're one hell of a shot! Love the content, excited to see more!
I had a 16-inch and a 20-inch AR in 308 that I used for hog hunting. 90% of my shots are under 300 yards. I wasn't happy with either of those rifles so I built one myself. I went with a Mega Maten-matched upper, lower, and handguard set as the base. I decided to split the difference on the barrel and went with an 18-inch JP Ultra Match. I couldn't be happier with the outcome. I run hand-loaded Barnes 130-grain TTSX bullets right at 2,900 FPS. I consistently get 5-round 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards and they are devastating on game. Great video straight to the point with all the relevant information. Thank you for all the work put into it.
Question? I’m looking to buying another rifle for both home defense and hunting. I’m thinking 308 because of stopping power and a 16’ barrel. Seeing you had both. What’s your thoughts on this? I was looking at trying my hands on getting a 8.6 blackout but it’s out of my price range at this moment. If you don’t mind sharing your thoughts.
I liked the scope comparison as well as the barrel length comparison. I loved the camera view through the scopes, too. Very informative. Thank you.
Great job, love the .308. Literally a question I was asking myself 16” or 20”. Probably SFAR, probably 20”.
This video is spot on, I argue for a shorter 308 for mid range all the time. I run an Aero with a JPE 16" Stainless Steel barrel with the JP heat dissipater and Odin adjustable GB. I have had consistent success out to 860 yards and in and have had sub moa 10 round groups with 155 grn match ammo and 1 moa with 168 smk and 1.5 moa 178 eld-x. My twist rate is copied from the German H&K DMR at 11.25" which allows for greater accuracy with lighter bullets and the ability to use M882 ball fmj without a tremendous loss in accuracy. (2-3 moa) Very usable rig and have taken several whitetail with it.
Yep, great content. At 1,220yds, looks like wind was shifting on ya. I have both 16" and 20". But the 2 16"ers I have are Aero. 20" is KAC. Thanks for helping me figure where I should transition. 600 is as far as I could shoot round here. 16"ers do fine out to there.
You must have read my thoughts with this topic/vid. I was contemplating weather to re barrel my 308 to a 6.5 because I wanted to have the capability to reach out pat 1K. While I don't have a high end rig, I will at least see how capable my sticks are with better loads before I opt to swap out parts. You definitely make it look way easier than it is and it's great to see sponsors also take notice of your growing channel.
Great video. My personal rig runs an 18" barrel. I originally built it with a 16" SASS barrel but wasn't happy with the longer range accuracy and the weight was horrific. The 18" medium contour is a couple of ounces lighter and the velocity gain is about 60FPS. It's every bit as accurate as the SASS as long as you are not doing mag dumps.
Thanks for this comparison- I've just recently gotten an M1A SOCOM and had been building worries about range performance compared to the full length. Unfounded! Where I am, typical distances would be under 500yrds, so this comparison was soothing.
Great breakdown of methods, I very much enjoyed this.
Even without the comparison to any high dollar optics, I couldn't agree more with you on Arken for most use cases. I often practice with a RPR in 22lr to get trigger time I can afford and to get better reading wind. At 385m it needs 24 mils of elevation. I can still dial all of that, and it's rock solid in terms of repeatedly dialing back. Thanks for covering the range of gear from really pricey to really accessible. It's appreciated
I bought a an Arken EP8 based on his review, was not disappointed. Great content, keep it up!
First off really appreciate you supporting the channel, it doesn’t go unnoticed! The EP8 is a great lpvo, I’m still really happy with mine so it’s cool to hear your experience is equally as good!
You’re very quickly becoming my favorite guntuber. Your videos actually ask and answer questions rather than just promoting different products like most.
Thanks for another wonderful video Merica. Your presentation and explanation of shooting these rifles is always impressive, cheers from the UK.
Man this is just what I needed. I’ve been watching a lot of your videos lately because I wanted to build a rifle to shoot 1000 yds next year. I’d already locked in on the Arken EP 5-25 I have the SH 6-24 and two Vortex DBT 6-24. Not high end but that’s what I’ve got. I was thinking 6MM ARC or 6.5 creedmoor but will probably try my 16” AR10 first now. I’ve watched your videos on those calibers already too. Hell maybe I’ll build a 18” 308 rifle. I’ve never been a fan of long barrels. I see the data but long barrels aren’t my thing. I’ve shared with family and friends and we love the videos. Thanks for the content.
Exactly my thoughts 👀 Currently building a 18” ar 10 .308. Ordered the Arken EP5 scope for it too after researching for a couple weeks. Can’t wait to get to the range with this beast when I get it done :)
Great video layout! It's awesome that you show different camera positions- the reticle, target, and you firing- all on the same screen. Liked the discussion at the end too, thanks for a great video!! Subscribed for sure
Great content! Not surprised by the performance of the 16 vs 20 but am impressed with the Arken!
Thanks for reminding us that sometimes less is more.
There are some budget friendly options that get the job done.
Keep the videos coming.
In my area, a 300 yard shot is long due to trees and hills. So I am happy to have a 16” to move easier as it can do the job at the distances in my location. Thanks for the info. Always nice to get educated in the topic.
The NF definitely seemed to have less CA, but that should be expected for the difference in cost. The Arken reticle is okay, but I prefer .2 hashes or even the .25 mil of the Leupold PR-2.
As far as performance. I felt the 16” did just fine. It’s hard to give much feedback at 1220 yds since you were well past the transonic range; rounds do weird things in that space and you could have did everything perfectly. Realistically, probably the same for the 20”; I haven’t looked at the calculator to see the retained velocity for that barrel length, but I would wager it was transonic shortly after 1,000 yards. Still, the little extra velocity of the longer barrel length and the precision of that particular rifle bought you some forgiveness at those extended ranges.
Great stuff man; I always enjoy your content.
You’re drunk the archon’s are bad ass for the money. Many people including myself have said they’re punching well about the weight class near $1000 glass.
Bro!! You are the Bob Ross of firearms!! This is a compliment!
Haha I appreciate it! It’s funny how many folks have told me this. Sounds like he has a lot of fans so I take it as a compliment!
I had a Ruger SFAR and sold it, just felt cheap and the gas system was finicky. I have a 16" Stag 10 .308, Vortex 6-24x50 ffp mrad for distance, then use my Leupold Mark 3HD 4-12x40 Firedot TMR for hunting. I swap the scopes with QD bases when needed, and return to zero is acceptable, then easily tuned in. This is a straight-up 1 MOA 16" rifle with decent ammo, and is stable enough for distance shooting. Excellent video and super informative.
Dude you make this look so easy. Incredible well done.
A little luck goes a long ways on camera haha. Appreciate you taking the time to watch and support the channel!
I run a cheap Athlon scope and have had good results with it. I'm learning a lot from your channel, thanks for another great vid.
So 600-750m is a good active engagement distance in real world situation so this video prove if you need a riffle to do it all 16” is more than enough competition shooting or consistency above 1000 go 20”. This also shows setup properly and trading you can do a lot with the 16 and transition to close engagement and maneuverability
Dude, your videos are in-credible! Very well structured, top quality content and super interesting! Well done.
thanks for the thought out video as always and really enjoy your channel.
I’m still a neophyte to getting into all this versus that stuff. It’s what happens when you’re away from shooting for many years. What I’ve come to recently go with as far as 308 it’s like you said, if you’re staying under a certain distance, say 500 yards, I’ll go with a 16 inch all day. However and it probably just depends on manufacturer in my case I use LMT and their barrel weights are not that much different, so why limit myself. I just go with 20” for the 308. It covers most distances I intend to cover.
You don’t beat around the bush…you go straight for the tush
Great videos and content!
I just broke in my 308 ar10 today. This is amazing. I've wondered what I was missing on.
Love your content. Raw, no nonsense videos. Thank you
I have a similar quality build on a 20" Faxon w/ an Arken Ep5/, minus suppressor. I'll try to attain similar results when I have the yard. you're an inspiration. thx for posting.
I really enjoy your videos!
Feeling pretty good about my 16” Ruger SFAR .308 and my Arken SH-4
My 165gr hand loads hold sub moa at 100yds. I’m still practicing at 300yds
I am very new to long range shooting.
How is the SFAR doing? Thinking of getting the 20".
Very impressed how steady you hold at distance. Great video. Thank you 👍
This man is winning my heart and mind this week after TPH Podcast.
I love your content. Simple, honest, and truthful. Thanks!
Out to 1035 they both did well. But the 20" barrel did much better at 1220.
But where I'm at down here in southern Arizona. I'm thinking my 16" is all I'm ever going to need.
Great presentation. I hadn't seen your channel before. I'm glad I found you.
I'll be checking you out more in the future.
Bo Johnson ~ Tucson, AZ
Ive got two Arken scopes and theyre my go to for scopes now. I have the 4-16 EPL and the 5-25x50 as well. Both of them are killer scopes.
Really cool video. I have a 16" AR10 in 308 I built myself(Faxon heavy fluted barrel and Lantac BCG. No trouble hitting 1000yds IPSC repeatedly with my 178gr ELD-M handloads. I would be curious to try the A-TIP with the higher BC, but at more than 2x the cost it isn't happening anytime soon. Standard 175gr GMM becomes a little more tricky with decent wind but still very doable. Anything past 1000yds I would be using my 300 win mag.
Over 1000 yards is impressive for Ruger sfar 16 308
Great job. Thank you sir!
I really like this kind of content. Doing a lot of legwork for me. Arken is doing great things for the money no doubt. Only thing that was a slight downer in this case was the 20” is an accurate match barrel/chamber and the 16” isn’t so the comparison could have been a little better but still very much enjoyed it
My opinion is go 16” for most cases unless you’re stretching the limits, then go 26” to get max velocity for 308.
12/10 video: topic, testing, audio, video, pacing, personality- everything was on point man
I mean I was kind of surprised how well the 16" barrel did. Also, you're a great shooter. Thanks for the amazing review and very detailed oriented video.
Great video. Best one I have seen on this subject. And your edit and level of detail is flawless. I went with the 18" .308 gas gun and love it. our DOPE is very similar. thanks again.
Recently aquired a 12.75" 308 PWS MK212, slapped on a 1-8 PA PLX, and a HUXWRX 7.62Ti. Absolutely love it. Soon I'll chrono it out and select my hunting ammo bullet weight but for my practical 25-300yard do it all rifle, I don't see a downside besides weight against an AR15. I would prefer 6.5CM but oh well.
Dude where did you find that MK212?! I have 5 PWS rifles and that is my bucket list piece!
Thanks for another great video, I'm a newbie at long distance shooting, your videos make it easier to understand!
Very informative I’m working with 18” barrel and been heavily considering the Arlin
I was just thinking the same thing for 16 vs 20” barrels on 308, and I’m surprised my theory was pretty close to what the results were. I just ordered a 20” criterion barrel and stoked to build out a 20” more precision based upper and also have a 16” battle rifle upper. Love your channel btw!
Loved the video. My thoughts on the barrel lengths are > a 20" to me is a dedicated long range where the 16" is more suited to somewhat closer ranges, lighter and more maneuverable in tight places > all things everybody all ready knows. Having said that, I like the idea of an 18" barrel in that platform and is what I would like to get for myself one day. 18" would be a happy balance between the two, sort of a do all, good at everything barrel length for that platform, unless you need the gun to perform a specific roll. And I'm very impressed with that Arken optic. Good job with video
Hard to say for sure but it almost looks like the Arken is clearer out at distance.
As usual, your videos are a great resource for facts without fluff. Thanks for your hard work on these!
To be fair that’s not representative of what I’m seeing through the scope. The image through the NF is distorted due to the triggercam… in person the NF has the clearer glass. Main takeaway though is the arken is very usable and capable to distance.
All of your content is top notch, keep up the great work!
My dd5v3 done good with the hornady 178gr bthp runnin 2158fps and made 1st rd impact @1k holdin 32moa ontop of dialin 25….printed a 3” 3rd at 520 with factory white bx match 178gr…so I tried duplicating that before having a crono and went off pressure sign and grouping and is how I ended at the minuscule 2150fps..lol. Your ideas and rifles are bang on mine brother…I wish you the best holidays and can’t wait for the next one…matt
Really enjoy your videos and the content they contain. Watching you effortlessly smackin' 1000yrds makes me want to see you travel down to try out the Texas Plinking 1000 Yrd Challenge. BTW, what twist rates are on the barrels? If you told us, I missed it and too lazy to go back and listen. I have been trying to work up some loads for my friend's new Remington 700 build with a 16" 308. Its a 1:12 and we are not having much luck. lol.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch! I believe the twist rate on both barrels is 1 in 11.25”.
On the texas plinking challenge go back and check out the first shooter in episode 1 and let me know what you think! I think be excited!
Your candor keeps me coming back to this channel! Keep it up, and thanks for discussing comparisons that the community loves your for!
Thanks for the video. I was contemplating putting a 20 on mine, but for the distance I shoot you proved a 16 is plenty. After watching this I think spending the barrel money on ammo and improving my shooting is more ideal..
It’s also nice to see the Arken hold its own with a better high end scope. I have no doubt the high end scope is better, but it’s nice to see options for people on a budget or not as picky on glass clarity and such.
Nice shooting Hoss..
I like this guy. Down to earth approach to things. No off putting attitude that some places have in my humble opinion.
lots of good information on this channel.
i enjoy the hold over shooting, Vary Good.
who would have thought a corbine could make shots that far.
I would love to see an 18 inch comparison later on.
Cut these differences in half. Boom, there's your 18" comparison 😂
ANOTHER exemplary example of virtually ALL the differences between bbl length AND ballistics. Nothing I can add at all..and a LOT of envy on your equipment..OR “tool(s)” of choice! I KNOW Tiborasaurus Rex has been pushing Arken for some time now. HE has only “talked” specifics that I’m aware of whereas THIS is real world. MUCH appreciated on some great video editing!
The Arken EP5 is an amazing scope. I’ve been running one for about a year and it looks as good as or better than a couple other scopes I have that are 3x the price. I liked it so much I got another one!
Thank you for sacrificing your shoulder for the day to show us the performance between these two packages!
I'm glad to see the performance at range is this close. I have a 1-6 scope on my 16" 308, so I am not thinking about shooting past 300 yards or so (also due to shooting copper rounds out of this thing, and those have a velocity requirement which my rifle imposes a range limit of around 300 yards anyway). I would like to get a 1-10 at some point. I don't really want to give up the 1x, but I could see myself settling for a really good 2-12.
Great content, man! Keep it coming.
Do you shoot those ultra high velocity 110-115 grain copper solid 308 rounds? It makes 308 a laser to 450 yards. Like 3200 fps and probably messes stuff up harder than any creedmoor this or that within that distance due to better energy transfer.
@@ryaniam22 No, but now you have condemned me to hours of google-fu, so thanks for that. 🤣
@@StuvenBarkus 🤣🤣🤣 Enjoy the rapid hole
I've got one AR-10 20in long range gun with razor HD gen 2 scope, and I have another rifle that will be complete when I put a barrel and handguard on it. I really want a 16In barrel (or 14.7 pinned) close range with red dot or possibly my Eotech EXPS 3-0 for a CQB version AR-10.
Great shooting, Thanks for the video ! I noticed at 1200 with the 16 you had quite a bit more wind, and when you missed with the 20 a few times there was almost no wind downrange.
Nice to see that a lil ole 308 can reach out that far with any sort of accuracy. With all the 28 Nosler, 300 WinMag, 300 PRC...etc, it's refreshing to see someone work a 308 so well. Great shooting!
Literally was just debating this. Way to come in clutch my man! 🤙🏼😂
Simple breakdown of what many shooters think about from time-to-time. Thanks.
Excellent demonstration and very insightful. Your assessment is meticulous which is what we all want and need. Well done 👏
Excellent comparison, thank you! I would really like to you put the 20" APR against the SR-25 6.5 22" upper, which I believe you also have. We know that the 6.5 will be more efficient. I'd like to see to what extent this translates into your hit percentage @ 1,000 yards between the two. Maybe extend this comparison with the Ally cartridges as well.
I've been on wait lists for both uppers for over a year now. Hopefully next year will be better for their availability.
I would love to see this video with some popular hunting loads. I'm curious how far out you can reach with .308 and still maintain around 1500ftlbs of energy with a 16" AR10.
What really stands out to me is that both of those guns have very tight elevation groups even at 1200yds , the SD's were good so the ammo certainly has the potential for consistency but the barrels (and shooter) have to be good to benefit from it. Wind is wind its very hard to read especially out in open terrain like that when you don't have a mirage to help so missing an 18.25" wide plate at 1200 is very easy to do because it doesn't take much wind that is basically impossible to account for to push you off.
Great shooting, way to represent Washington as you did on the 1 MOA at 1000 challenge.
Best gun channel out there hands down
Great video! Still in the research phase of my build… This video has really helped me narrow down my decision. Thanks for the information, brother keep up the great work!
A possible consideration. If you are running a Primary Arms Scope with the etched BDC reticle, 150g grain bullets need to travel at 2650-2700fps. For 168g your fps needs to be 2600-2650. I was shooting 168hpbt and it's a challenge to get the fps high enough with a 16" barrel to use the BDC reticle. Varget is too slow, RL15 is ok, Rl17 is ok and 4064 is slow, need to run compressed loads with all powders. If I was buying another .308AR I would go with a 20" barrel (18 might be the sweet spot).
Or just say no to BDC reticles unless your goal is simply to get hits on larger targets out to 400-500 yards.
I have not had this problem with my sfar at all using my bdc… maybe it’d just the elevation
Great video. Well done. The 16 is my choice I like the shorter smaller platform. Obviously having a quality rifle makes a big difference.
Thanks for this, It was very comprehensive!
Great video. I love the true side x side conparison
I inherited a Ruger gunsite scout with a 16in barrel that I planned on using for big game hunting out west. I was really worried it wouldn’t be able to poke out to long distances but this has entirely changed my mind and I realize that practice will make up any difference in performance from a 20in.
Thank you great video. I just bought my first AR-10 (palmetto) and 5-25x52 scope specifically for shooting 1000 yards. Based on this video, I might need to find an even bigger range to get out to 1200+ yds.
I do not plan to spend the dollars though, I plan to use the primary arms mill grid for my holds.
If you dont plan on shooting past 750yard 16 inches is incredibly versatile. Ive shot out to 1200 with 16 inch and will be upgrading to a 20inch barrel.
The AR i get will be for close to mid range in .223, i have a sig cross and that is my go to for long range days for the .308.
If you are a hunter or simply plan on removing hogs or coyotes a 16 inch is all thats needed as you dont need to take those shots out past 500 yards. If you are doing more canyon to canyon shots, then the 20 is worth it.
At the end of the day, do what you want. Very informative video. Ide say a 16 with a suppressor is better than a 20 inch for a majority of hunters/ target guys.