How does humanities Dark Age tech compare to the Necrons? | Warhammer
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- It is well known that the Necrons technology is unmatched in the galaxy of 40K, but we are often told a lot about mankind's technology from it's dark age.
So just how close were the two? What was similar about their tech? And where did humanity outperform the Necrons?
Well let's talk about it!
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Hey all! This was a question submitted on the discord (albeit a little while ago) so feel free to ask a question here or on the server and it may be made into a future video!
It's been a while and sorry about that life stuff and all. Anyway I'm coming back to making videos! This one may be a bit rough around the edges but I'm just trying to get back into the swing of things. Hope you enjoy it one none the less!
Glad to see you back man!
Could humanity use their stc AI to analyze and recreate necron technology kind of like how the tau do
I think DAOT Humanity would be on par with the current state of the Necron. But, if you compare them with the War in Heaven Necron, their technological gap is just large.
To put it simply the Celestial Orrary was the only weapon allowed by the Silent King to remain and not be destroyed.
The celestial Orrary itself is currently the most powerful weapon in the setting, so imagine what weapons the Necrons were able to pull off during their prime.
The Ctans themselves had barely any power before the Necrontyrs gave them a form
*sneezes near the Orrary*
*half of all star systems evaporate*
@@doragonzx Didn't they casually munch on stars and planets before even ?
@@vestricaptiosus9861 yeah but they were more or less Ghaseous mass of star eating jellyfishes with barely any sentience. The Necrons gave them vessels that could proprely handle their power and as a result made them smarter and way more dangerous
Couldn't treat radiation poisoning or birth deformities.
How would the galaxy fare if the Imperium is replaced by DAoT Humanity in the current setting?
Good question! I've gone through scenario after scenario in my head and I almost wrote an entire essay, there is so much stuff that could happen that this may become a video. I can give you a brief rundown though!
Should this happen and assuming that the change is instant the galaxy would be faced with humanity at it's true potential once more. Depending on how diplomatic and understanding some of these factions may be they may ally themselves with humanity such as the Tau, they may not confederate but a mutual understanding could be met.
The borders would grow greater than that of the Imperiums even during the great crusade meaning that many species you may know would no longer be around.
There will still be areas that Humanity has to defend itself from as even during the dark age they struggled against the Orks, meaning in all likelihood they would still be an issue.
It would also be safe to assume that should the Tyranids or Necrons find themselves facing off against mankind then the situation wouldn't change too much from if they were to find them before the age of strife as their relative strength would be the same.
Seeing as the Imperium is holding off against these threats and considering how disjointed and un-organised they are, DAOT humanity should do fine to a degree, it just depends on how many Necrons re-awaken and how many Tyranid hive fleets appear in humanities borders.
Chaos would also have a greater dominance over them, during the DAOT there were not as many warp storms nor the great rift in the Galaxy. Therefore they may try to find other ways in which to navigate the Galaxy including possibly repairing the Golden Throne (Should the Emperor still be sat on it) and even provide the technological know how to re-create technology that the Mechanicus cannot.
These are just a few examples but there are a tonne of other things that could occur, I'll save it for the video though as this comment is getting waaaayyy too long! I'm sorry I can't give you more details here, but keep an eye out and I'll upload this once I've got the chance :)
DAoT humanity would absolutely CURBSTOMP the 40k galaxy... the only faction that really would be a major threat is the necrons because of their superior technology but outside of them the rest of the galaxy is fucked
@@HypospaceYT no, the Orks struggled against DAoT Humanity, the Orks had to sign non aggression pacts with Humanity during the Dark Age of Technology because of how powerful Humanity has become
Is that true? I've never read that this happened. Do you have a source for it?
I know that they definitely were on the back foot after all they had to deal with both the Eldar and Humanity. But when I say struggled I mean they never really got rid of them as Orks being Orks they are a nuisance and have a tendency of popping up. They could be dealt with before becoming too large of a threat, but still it would take time and resources that really could've been focused elsewhere.
@@justinianthegreat1444 pretty sure they didnt sign non aggression pacts the orks were simply nearly driven to extinction to the point where humanity didnt need to bother about fighting them anymore
Necrons actually banned the use of most AI, operating under similar limitations to the Imperium of Man (that is, if it's not a Necrontyr mind or a low level machine spirit - and they even call them machine spirits - it's not allowed). It gets mentioned in the Twice-Dead King novel series, Phaeron Oltyx is suspicious of the Cryptek Mentep for having a custom-made canoptek pet (Xott) which seems suspiciously sentient (and turns out, in the end, to be a backup of Mentep's own mind in a canoptek body).
DAOT humasnity tends to "cheat" by teching with both Warp tech and material realm tech, while Eldar and Necrons tend to have essentially capstoned their respective specialty. So comparing them doesn't always work out as you'd think.
But DAOT humanity was still a baby compared to the Eldar and Necrons. The length of time it took them to achieve that level of tech was an eye-blink compared to the amount of time the Eldar and Necrons had to develop. Also, just as the Heresy started, a Mechanicum Magos was on the cusp of gaining access to all knowledge in the universe. This would have elevated humans to the level of the C'Tan, or higher.
Part of the problem is how much GW has changed its treatment of the DAOT over the years.
In the beginning, it wasn't so much that humanity had reached some apex of technological development that it will never return to, so much as the fact that technology was both ubquitous and well understood. Less a matter of "Every trooper was wearing artificier armour and rocking around with digital lascannons and reality-warping weapons", and more of a "Sergeant Jones has an auspex and at least a rough idea of how it works".
But GW exercises almost no editorial control over its authors, and when you have an evocative name like the Dark Age of Technology, it's inevitably going to get portrayed as though there was some apex of achievement, rather than a shift in understanding.
But then you get narrations from pieces of lore like the recent Pariah Nexus, where the techpriests brought with them some techscraps from the Dark Age of Technology that gave the Necron a run for their money. When everyone started pulling out weapons of mass destruction, the techpriests used satelites with high intensity beams that could evaporate even top of the line Nekron ships, weapons that generate black holes to banish enemies from existance, nanobots capable of eating away Nekron armies and fleets and so on... You also have pretty old lore where is describe how weapons like the original titans from the Dark Age were exponentialy more powerful that even the most powerful Titan from the Horus Heresy or that people had access to power suits and weapons that can turn a normal human into something more deadly than an Astartes... so who knows for me Humanity from the Dark Age were pretty close if not at the level of Nekrons.
not to mention that DAoT mankind's guns that could erase the target's existence out of reality to have never existed was made in enough numbers that one or two managed to survive to the great crusade and still be used, though its never said what the guns where used for, instead of being locked in a vault for being to valuable to loose. hell, one of the time worm-snake machine that can black out stars by coiling around them alone would solo most of the factions
I think one example was that terminator armour was originally just reinforced armour for mining operations and is now the top level of personal protection the imperium can provide.
Okay, but counterpoint: without Vulcan, humanity would have lost to The Beast and even when they're not using "Dark Age" stuff, they still had weapons made by the Dark Mechanicus and stuff designed by Big E, which I assume would have been based off of DAoT stuff, sure, the resources and factories to produce DAoT stuff have disappeared, but Big E had the knowledge to make them.
And yet, despite that, they lost to The Beast and had to sacrifice a Primarch to beat him.
Also, Titans more powerful than the ones the Imperium currently uses don't mean anything when Krorkz were literal Knight sized so their Warbosses were presumably even larger than that.
And also, Krork had battle moons, not just Titans and yet the Necron managed to push them back every step of the way.
Cool. Necron goes to celestial orrery that the imperium does not even know exists and taps on Terra killing big e and cutting humanity off from warp travel. Big e gets ressurected but all of humanity is cut off from themselves and are eaten piecemeal by the rest of the galaxy. Boom necrons win by using their weakest super weapon while DAOT humanity has its strongest stuff too. The only way to win is plot otherwise since humanity can't stop the celestial orrery they win everytime.
@@notladnstuff7976 the Necrons are way to divided and tribal at this point without the silent king to be able to act on anything like that involving the orrery, especially if its just one random dynasty thats getting smacked by the imperium
One of the Necron Crown worlds was built in and resides within the heart of a sun, a feat that has never(as far as we know) and curently cannot be matched by any other race in 40k. It is utterly impossible to access said crown world from the outside without the use of the dolemon gates. I think this alone gives a fairly good representation of their power.
That being said there are texts that make the claim that humanity during the DAOT even surpassed the Eldar in their prime who were themselves supposed to be comparable to the Necrons.
I think the real answer as I've discovered over my decades of being a 40k fan is that Games Workshop has very inconsistent lore that they can, have and will discard or rewrite at any given moment, so it's best not to get too worked up about it.
personally i dont think the DAOT beat the eldar when we are talking about timeframe both empires existed at the same time and where at somewhat of a cold war neither really wanted to destory the other and the eldars empire was much larger the eldar at their peak i would say durning the war in heaven as you had all kinds of crazy shit going on. daot where in a realitively peaceful galaxy and the eldar where basically becoming extremely degenerate so their empire was degrading tbh
DAOT humans were able to make the eldar sigh a none aggression treaty now these were not the WIH eldar but still fairly peak
not realy that were the Orks but that's only because just like the TAU they weren't really fun to fight against.
And no humanity and the Aldari were never really interested in each other, because the Elder didn't really see us as worth there time especially since they mostly resided in the galactic core where there core worlds and there main web way gates resided which might as well be an entire pockey universe all on its own before it became the eye of Terra.
They were exclusively relegated to the web way while humanity was exliusive to the warp sl they really didn't care that much about each other.
And no there opinions on humanity at there prime though slightly higher than humanity it was all but the same as they so humanities rise as a short period of grace that will die in a couple thousand years. They believed humanities own technological might and AI constructs would be there down fall.
At least the Eldars constructs were controlled by there gods and AI just being artificial souls that were tied to the Aldari species itself since all Elder and there technological (which was warp based to gurentee better user interference) were psychicly connected in some weird hippie dipie psychic net gureenting there wraith constructs never rebeld .
What did humanity have to temper there technology? There own words and the hollow sense of control to keep there constructs who they had given sentients placated hoping they would keep listening to them.
Heres an exerpt from the book wrealth flight
*" Iyanna had seen examples of artifice from many human cultures. At the height of their art, humanity had made ugly things, and in this age of the Corpse-Emperor they were far from their height. Their ships were an offence to the eye."*
*Wraithflight*
In other wards there opinions were more or less the same as they just saw us upstarts who would flicker and die like the millions of Empires that came before them during the Aedlaris 60 million years or reign. And they weren't wrong less than 9 thousand yeard of our golden age and when we tally the age of pure collective human civilization less than 30 thousand years and our enrure civilization collapsed on us over night.
We essentially created outright God's thinking we could control them, the Aeldari were subservient to there gods not the other way around.
Especially since there's a lot evidence most of mankind's warp based technologies and even there self healing constructs were based of ancient Aeldari technology due to how similar most of there tech was interns of function and how they always ended up filling a similar role as Aeldari tech.
And not to mention the Elder were so powerful the silent king retreated and put the entire necron race to sleep just so they could wait them out. To be fair this was when the Aeldari had there God's anf when tge necrons were weekend from shattering tge Ctan but still those are massive shoes to fill and all it takes is DAOT humanity delaying there daily shipment of Aphrodisiacs and dildos by destroying one of there core worlds and it would be GGs for mankind.
@@CopeSeethorntin i wouldnt say the silent king was afraid of the rising eldar but we have to look at it as you said they just shattered their gods, and they jsut got done fighting was was them vs the old ones, eldar, korks, the organgatan looking aliens, and a few others the old ones made.
the silent king made them go to sleep so they can come back to a galacy where the eldar where much easier to deal with and to also recoperate their strenght while he and his army went into the void fighting tons of tyranids before he returned.
peak necrons would still beat peak eldar
DAoT mankind did built that snake machine thingy that can black out stars by coiling around them and fuck with time a little if I remember correctly
Let's just say Ctan can't be destroyed permanently but The Necron have weapon that can destroy Ctan permanently with Consequences
The reason the Emperor didn't do anything in DAOT is simple: he was not around forever. He is one of the Men of Gold. Why is he the only one? They all perished fighting the men of iron but he's a perpetual and regenerated. This explains his recent appearance and surprising ignorance.
I like this better than having him be Jesus
Its a neat video, but you do miss out on the parts where DAOT humanity surpasses the Necrons, even at their zenit. For instance, DAOT humanity had a comparable mastery of the physical universe, but arguably better material control of matter. While Necrons have living metal, which is VERY usable and pliable, DAOT humanity created what is basically molecular inert matter - Adamantium for instance is harder than anything the Necrons ever produced, as is the auric-adamantium alloy which even surpasses that, if not in durability, so in durability to mass ratio. Sure, one could just say that Necrons never needed such matter - but they also never created it. While Necrons clearly surpass humanity in chronomancy, DAOT clearly surpasses the Necrons/Necrotyr in biomancy. (Genetic manipulation) as the Necrontyr never even figured out how to break their genetic flaws - while DAOT humanity was creating entire subspecies at a whim. (The Emperor MIGHT have had a finger in this, seeing as how he and Arda were the supreme gene-crafters even after the fall, and lived during the DAOT.) From what I have read up over the decades of being a lore nerd, I'd say Necrons are better at certain specialized fields, but humanity during the DAOT are very close in these fields - while DAOT are complete masters in others that Necrons never really became good at. Take Warp-based tech for instance. Necrons are really bad at it. As in, their Dolmen gates are a dead end tech that just brute forces the Web Way - and they cannot travel through the warp. They don't have access to it, understand it, have geller fields and so on. While humanity, both DAOT and current 40K Imperium, are far better at it. People usually shit on humanity even in the Imperial age in regards to tech, but NO OTHER FACTION even gets close to the left overs of DAOT like Void Shields or Teleportation. No xenos faction even HAS Void Shields.
Its hard to measure different techs from what little we know. But DAOT humanity was a kind of generalist know how that came close but never surpassed Necrons in several lines of tech - but massively surpassed them in others. One should also note that DAOT humanity got to that level in a short amount of time - about 220 000 years. While it took the Necrons several million years (possibly 20-30 million years even, War in the Heavens is a very complicated topic that has changed since we started hearing about it some odd 20+ years ago).
Oh I absolutely agree with you that humanity had more of a generalised production when it came to their tech, which would as you say make them more advanced in certain areas like warp and medical/biological based tech, I should've gone into more detail here. For warp based tech it makes sense as the immaterium wasn't as chaotic until the war in heaven, for medical based science they were unable to cure themselves of the main reason they sought immortality so it would make sense that humanity would have the better edge in this area as well
There was a quote from an author (I believe) that I really wanted to include that kind of sums up what you have said, but I could not find it anywhere unfortunately. It went something along the lines of "The Necrons had reached the peak of scientific discovery, humanity had just reached its peak" Now as I say I could not find this quote so it may not be accurate or even real, but I still feel it applies and also makes sense.
The way I view it personally is the Necrons reached an absolute understanding of material universe, humanity a generalised (but still advanced) understanding of all the sciences and the Aeldari an absolute understanding of warp based tech. Each of these factions have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to their technology, it's just that some are better at understanding and creating technology when compared to others.
Alot of what you have stated is chalked up to the necrontyr's inherent weakness - the lack of a soul or connection to the warp in their race. The necrontyr were definitely still backward during the first war in heaven when the old ones slapped them back to their home planet - the old ones had access to their webway and warp powers whilst the necrontyr were still operating with sub-light travel. Instead of solving their genetic issues, they discovered the c'tan, which I would say fundamentally changed their direction in technology. Biotransferrance and the lack of any meaningful warp powers meant that they didn't need to work on genetic manipulation like DOAT humanity; but experiments by Illuminator Szeras and the quest of Szarekh to reverse biotransferrance tells me the necrons are slowly on their way to making DOAT leaps of genetic discovery. As for specialisation, their "warpless" nature (and general hatred of the warp) alongside c'tan guidance means that necrons will always end up being the most advanced race in terms of raw knowledge on physics.
Even in terms of the warp, they managed to find a way to suppress it much better than arguably any race ever did via the pylons- the eldar have only managed to hide in the webway and we have seen that to not always be perfect (i.e. Magnus' Great Oopsy). Hell, the necrons had to close the eye of terror which the Old Ones had accidently opened during the War in Heaven. DOAT humanity's specialisation in AI could be argued to not be perfect, as they had to tap in with xenos help to defeat the Men of Iron. Even if we gave a hypothetic of DOAT humanity vs necrons, c'tan just unfortunately make it an unfair fight, as they are beings representing core fundamentals of reality. Sure DOAT humanity could develop more advanced material and genetic tampering, but when you are fighting a race which has explored dimensions other than the warp, it starts to look like an Old One vs Necron scenario. Teleportation and tech like the Pharos device compete more than comfortably with the webway.
Nobody really won the War in Heaven, but considering the necrons were making breaches in the webway I'd say the only reason the eldar survived was because Szarekh decided to pokemon the c'tan. And the necrons still stand today as the most advanced race despite arguably losing their primary source of knowledge in the c'tan. DOAT humanity wouldnt be able to reach necron knowledge without guidance from something like the C'tan. They would still be hanging on warp based tech which would undoubtedly bite them in the ass when Chaos comes knocking.
This is really imperium biased. That assumes because the necrons don't uses something they don't have it or suck at it. Firstly who says the necrons have never developed auramite. Just becuae they don't use it doesn't mean they can't make it. Consider that firstly auramite like adamantium isn't indestructible. While necrodermis might be physically weaker its benefits of regeneration may compensate so much that necrons chose that over it. Moreover, we do know black stone is a relatively comparable material being described as "nigh indestructible". Again just because the necrons don't use something doesn't mean they don't have it. Necrons have their own for of quantum sheildi g that surpasses void sheild in many aspects. Orcs have their own form of void sheild as well. The reason that necrons don't use void shields is because they are warp based tech. Think about it this way. What point is their in developing warp based shielding when your opponents are literally warp gods. A void sheild vs an old one is like covering your tank in paper. We know the necrons had more advanced warp tech in areas that were relevant to then eg black stone pylons. Doat humans definitely didn't have these.
Lastly, the necrons have the most access to teleportation of any faction in 40k. It's actually ridiculous. Literally every necron warrior teleports back to base when they fall in battle. This isn't counting necrons just teleporting into battle randomly. Not only that it's important to remember they do this WITHOUT the warp. Imperium teleportation is warp reliant while necrons is just plain old physics.
Other then bio engineering and maybe warp stuff there isn't anything doat did better then the necrons. But at least In the case of warp craft we know the eldar were better then doat and the necrons had a whole galaxy shattering war with them.
now sure how you think humans are very close to necrons in chronomancy.
"molecular inert matter"...not sure what are you even saying...those words...don't mean much.
Argon is inert. If something is inert, its not going to be solid.
Necrons never "created it"? Necrons created way better material than Auramic etc. All crypteks have "materials" made of whatever they specialised in(though i would extend the same treatment as..."those words don't make sense" to these but anyway..)
So a necron that specialises in space manipulation, has a material made of space, if it makes sense(but hey writers are art majors)
DAoT were never close to necrons in what the necrons were good at.
Great summary of necron and DAOT lore, I see decades of lore nerding in your words and your amazing mod for BFG2. Are you planning to expand Skalgrim mod?
Humanity also made the ai that can guide ships in the warp and can phase ships form one period to another to destroy them tbh we just don’t know but I feel ancient humanity would dominate necrons since the current still fairs pretty week regardless of necrons are only semi activated
Look at it this way, Necron are master at physical tech but little to none on the warp tech. Eldar are a counter to Necrons so they are master at warp tech but behind them in physical tech. Humanity in the DAOT, in my opinion, is not the equal in either of the category to the Necron or Eldar but they got a good mix of both as evidence with the Golden throne and the STC
Celestial orrery.
@@noctier9385 Yeah lmao, if necrons feel they're in danger they'll just blow up all your star systems
@@dean_l33 Golden Throne is Eldar tech, not DaoT toys
@@user-wu8dg7cp1r Where did it says that? I thought big E just found it sitting there in China
The thing with daot humanity tech is that it can do whatever the writer feels like at the moment.
A gun that not only kills you but makes it do you didnt exist and everyone forgets you did? Fits in a pistol.
Sure the necrons will probably always have the best tech as thats their role in the story, but every time a writer pulls something out of their ass humanity will end up being just a little closer to them.
Huge machine that eats chunks of worlds AND its reflection in warp. Mechanovore or something in audio from Abnett about Oll in past.
Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
The Necrons had a source of energy humans had not, the Ctan. In theory, they would be equal or inferior to humans, if the Ctan were not allowing them to fuel technologies humans had only in theoretical exercises, because there was no source of energy to test the theories.
They were actually super-advanced before the C'tan found them, they just amped them up with more advanced tech and ideas from the C'tan, especially the Void Dragon.
As someone who's spent the last 30 odd years delving into the lore of this universe I can say without doubt;
There is No good answer to this question, there is No good answer to basically Any question in Warhammer, with the sole exception of, Wanna have a narrative campaign?
MECHANICUM being my favorite part of mankind's lore, these subjects are C A N D Y
Another great video. Well done fella 👍
I believe a little recent book series both the necrons and the imperium finds an old human automated defense platform and neither one could get even close to it cuz it keeps gunning them down.
That's all well and good for the Necrons, but humanity has sun-cream.
How do you think the Necrons would react to technology of the Time Lords, the Xeelee, and the Great Houses of Faction Paradox?
Time lords depends on the episoide doctor who is wildly inconsistent even compared to 40k so they range from completely one sided stomp to utter joke.
The Xeelee are leagues above the Necrons having achieved complete mastery over the physical universe including time. I'd imagine the Xeelee would just ignore the necrons and stay focused on delaying the birds whose nesting habits will end the universe early. If the Necrons get really annoying maybe a lone Xeelee beats them down or they make a slight alteration in history so the Necrons are either friendly or just never advance to become space faring.
No idea on the on the last one.
@@vonfaustien3957
I was thinking how the Necrons would react to all the stuff they had and how astronomically more capable and powerful they are from them even with all their C'Tan superweapons.
For Doctor Who I will not be counting the show due to the abomination it became. I would stick with the narratives where in the EU the Glory exists and the multiversal cosmic being known as the Qauntum Archangel.
Faction Paradox is a series that has off shoot from the Doctor Who series as it's separate genre. It is very similar to the properties of the Doctor Who cosmology with time travel and multiversal beings though it is more dark fantasy aspects in it then Doctor Who normally does. It has multiversal creatures which create universes like bubbles just by swimming around called the Leviathans massive cosmic beasts of ridiculous size they are millions of time bigger then a 100 billion light year in diameter universe. The Great Houses are alot like the Time Lords though a bit more dark and indifferent.
I heard how Faction Paradox can fight with the Xeelee and keep up as a proactive challenge.
Damn, this video is really good can't believe you don't have that much of subs
Lol peak nerco is insane the only one that can stand up to them are the old one
We are entirely ignorant of the DAoT's society, politics, and culture. However, both of them would inevitably interact...poorly. Both would face a foe that could hurt them incredibly hard. They would regret any conflict that occours on a sufficient scale, which the pride of both would inevitability bring them too.
I think that DAOT might have been able to reach Necron heights....if the AI war didn't happen. In the hypothetical timeline where DAOT humanity isn't destroyed and keeps improving, by 40K they would be approaching, but not at, War in Heavens Necrons. The main issue is that Necron's have a significant understanding of the warp that DAOT doesn't have, at least their pylon tech shows that they can completely shut it down. Further the C'tan were not only their tormentors but also great research subjects that DAOT doesn't have access to.
There was written somewhere, that Eldar during DAoT have won battle against humanity. Maybe its just eldar lies, but would be interesting to explore how modern Eldar tech can be compared to DAoT humanity and how Eldar tech changed since DAoT.
Well to be fair humanity had like what 5k? 10k years and still did wonders like retcon guns, necrons had millions of years and gods on their side
DAoT humans given enough time(millions of years), could easily have surpassed both the Necrons and Eldar, as instead of being specalists in one field, they were generalists that were fluent in both worlds, Unfortunatly, the knife ear "sax" cults destroyed that possibility trough their "shenanigans" :p
Dark age of tech scout ship deleted a space marine strike fleet. One shoting each ship. DAoT and Neocons are at a level were war is just stupid. Both sides lose.
DAoT humanity may have been as advanced as necrons in a few fields, but also SORELY lagging behind in others. if humanity was able to make any equivalent to the celestial orrery or a world engine, there would be traces or mentions of it, and likewise necron pylons show that even in the realm of warp mastery, or at least containing the warp, the necrons were never matched by the Imperium (as if any such tech existed, big E would have spammed the HELL out of them in his war against chaos)
also necron AIs are actually fairly advanced, filled with uncountable number of protocols to handle every situation on their own, especially when it comes to things like canoptek spyders that are tasked with defending and maintaining tomb worlds on their own while no necron is currently awake, and thts before considering machined like serapteks or monoliths that are fully automated war machines, which implies a high level of independance to adapt to changing battlefield conditions as well as to interpret and execute orders correctly. In that regard, the necrons do put the Tau drones to shame, but yeah unlike the imperium, they never tried to achieve sentience for their AIs, which may be why their AIs are safe and do not rebel barring bugs in their programming.
Necron AI's arent super intelligences
@@honkhonk8009 like I said, they arent sentient and have a limited programing.. but said programming is so through they might as well be as VERY few situations arent accounted in, and canoptek spyders alone are proof enough of that, having been able to maintain necron tombs through the entire great sleep (millions, if not billions of years, and basically everything that can happen will happen in such a long time period) without ANY oversight whatsoever. Thats some insane achievement
@@thorveim1174 Sounds very labour intensive to make. Lowkey kinda makes them seem shit tier
@@honkhonk8009 but at the same time, no sentience has its perks... Like, say, no risk of any AI revolt to begin with and complete obedience, which is a MASSIVE perks when chaos exists. Also we dont know how that programming is made, but even if its very labor-intensive, necrons would likely just see it as a valid way to pass the time since they have eternity ahead of themselves (we are talking about a race that sees nothing wrong with making and attending to year long uninterrupted stage plays after all or sitting motionless for days thinking about a single topic)
And having such a comprehensive programming fit into anything smaller than an entire server room is already an achievement by today's standards, and they did it in a way that can keep on functioning for eons without any maintenance needed by an outside operator. Hell again the spyders themselves have programming through enough that they ARE the maintenance operators for other necron constructs as well as ordering them around, and if a task is too complex for a spyder, it will network with others to combine their problem-solving capabilities. All of that added up is FAR beyond anything we could dream to make irl, and in-universe, its way better than Tau drones that only handle relatively simple tasks and always have an operator they are linked to nearby, having no independance whatsoever. Only yhe men of iron were better AI wise (and maybe some stuff from the Votann), and they were so much better... That they had to be destroyed for it, which removes a lot of the achievement
The greatest part where even today's humanity overshadows the necrons:
Healthcare.
Golden "Frone"...😂😂😂
I think it comes down to scale, even if they 'are' on par the Necrontyr were so immensely giant.
Let's face it, the Necrons were able to develop for multiple Eons even after defeating the Old Ones and they slept for another multiple Eons stagnating the development of their technologies, The Eldar also ended up like the Necrons Developing for many Eons and Stagnated after many more Eons. Mankind on the other hand had a short time to develop their technology for a couple of millennia and they achieved most of it out of the short time existing in the Galaxy, but in the end, they falter.
Technological Level Wise I bet GAOT Humanity is fast approaching Necron Technological Level Peak, as both Factions have molecular weapons, blackhole and singularity power sources, Realspace FTL Drive Tech, and much more.
GW, 1 of the most recent lore that retconned the Imperium role in the galaxy, was that they realized how massive the Galaxy both IRL and In-game really is and changed the IOM from a Galactic Empire with a Galaxy Wide Territory to 1 of the Major forces in the Milky Way Galaxy that controls half of the Orion Arm of the Galaxy, so the possibility of finding more GAOT Humans living their own prosperous lives is bigger than ever, I mean if the Tau could prosper in a small corner in the Orion Arm without clashing Chaos even though Chaos influence is Galactic Wide is the whole point of this Lore Retconned thing that GW always do to their story.
If fans doubt my claims about the lore-retconned thing, then just ask the Femtudes for that matter.
Maybe someone can answer for me, would the emperor know of all the dark age tech? And if so why didn’t he recreate it?
So I've made a short for this and you can view it here: ruclips.net/user/shortsMPaVjFE8iAk?feature=shared
But as a TLDR he did know of technologies during the dark age as he lived through it, but he wouldn't have known them all and couldn't re-create them for a few reasons. Whilst he's intelligent he doesn't know everything and as such could not re-create the tech he did not know of, so instead would have to kitbash other technologies to make something akin to it. The other reason is that he couldn't re-create them exactly the same as almost all that was known about them has been erased to time. Think of it like this, an apocalypse comes by tomorrow and all the factories that make phones and the instructions to build them are all destroyed. You know what a phone is and how to use them but could you re-create the phone exactly after this apocalypse? Probably not but you might be able to make something like them, it would just take time. That's kind of what the emperor had to deal with.
The big point is that the necromancy - even tho they have kept most of their tech - have also lost their greatest weapons. C’tan breaker guns or the breath of the gods were just too powerful, but they need were either destroyed or in the case of the breath of the gods need an entire unbroken c’tan to operate fully
I don't know why people keep comparing Necrons with DAoT. Their technology aren't even similar.
If anything, DAoT seem more similar to Dark Eldar tech, than Necrons.
Generally, Necrons are considered the best, so DAoT/DE got nothing on them, but the stuff the Necrons don't do well, DAoT seem alright...as well as....the Dark Eldar.
Lol the nerco can travel thought the universe without the warp and dot human cannot and let not mention the warp chaos destroy dot humanity.
Weren't the Eldars still the dominant power in the galaxy during the Dark Age of Technology? How powerful was humanity if they were still beneath the notice of Eldars?
Pretty sure they had a none aggression pact. So DAOT wasn't beneath the Eldar and both were comparable enough to each other that both sides avoided open conflict
They still must have been lightyears away, or else all those necron crypts would not still be intact
It was always going to be the Necrons. A more interesting comparison of technological scale is Dark Eldar and Necrons. Or maybe the Kin and Dark Eldar.
@@HorusHeresy1982 but the kin are less advanced than daot.
Good video
One thing the DAoT did that wasn't surpassed by the Necrons was the Sperenza. Spoilers for Forges of Mars ahead, btw. The AI that inhabited it was apparently omniscient. And at the very least it was completely unbothered by the attempt of an hereteck to hack it while that tech-priest was empowered/possessed by a shard of the void dragon.
@@Nat-ri3ip Necrons didn't need A.I since they had the Ctan, beings of countless shards/souls, but if they did need A.I, the Necrontyr had the capacity to do it since Ctan, at first, were literally just unthinking jellyfish who only knew how to eat.
The body Necrons gave the Ctan allowed them to think like any other A.I would.
@@pessien8474 None of the reached omniscience tho (except Orikan maybe ?), which this AI did. They can't think quite like it.
@@Nat-ri3ip No, Orikan realized that he literally couldn't handle the kind of omniscient mindset Ctan have, that's why he went insane in the first place, because a normal Ctan has a perfect understanding of the universe.
Did humanity have a celestial zen garden that was a scale model of the galaxy? One that you could simple reach into, and with a gesture, send any star in realspace supernova somehow?
So humanity doesn't/didn't have what you're describing, the Necrons however do in the form of the Celestial Orrery.
However, humanity did create devices that could destroy stars, just not to the extent of the Necrons.
From the Occlusiad War: "The northwestern fringe is ravaged by the Apostles of the Blind King, rogue Tech-Priests who view humanity as an affront to the Machine God. The Apostles uncover artefacts lost in the Dark Age of Technology that allow the creation of supernovae from the hearts of living suns."
The Orrery is the silliest bit of over-the-top style 40k lore. Like...how does that even work? 😂
@@nelsonhill4625 "I'm an ancient robotic wizard, I ain't gotta explain shit" - the necrons in charge of the orrery
This video's missing bits from recent books. There's human designed webway gates in the recent cawl vs bile book that were useable. The recent campaign book for the pariah nexus has the necrons throwing their super weapons at super weapons from the vaults of mars leading to a stalemate.
Additionally something that should be taken in more ought to be adrathic weaponry that was probably closer to their later standards that straight up stops atoms from binding with eachother or vortex weaponry humanity made with either no psykers or stupidly weaker psykers than the ones in the current human genepool. Also the votann melee weapons which straight up disable the ability of mechanical or biological things to function
The philosophy in tech seems to be different and kinda barely comparable. The necrons abuse physics while humans from the few looks at the age of tech seem to try and break physics in one way or another.
But the pariah nexus stalemate I think is the most definitive proof they're at least comparable since both factions rn are using the scraps of their old super weapons and are at a standstill
Dark Age tech is only as powerful as the story needs it to be... HOWEVER, I would put forward that it is still inferior to Necron tech, *especially* at the Necrons' prime. I'm a big fan of Admech, but it logistically makes little sense for Dark Age tech to even reach Necron levels, let alone surpass them. It's simply not supported by the evidence we have: Imperial and Mechanicus relics, tech the Votann have managed to preserve, and the Van Saar gang's time skip.
Even the Speranza, a ship on a power level never seen before or since in the Imperium, which had a gun with the capabilities to phase its target out of sync with time in order to collide with *itself* a fraction of a second in the future, whose mere firing spawns a black hole... even that pales in comparison to the Orrery, which is explicitly a piece of tech that was deemed "not dangerous enough" to be dismantled after the War in Heaven.
If I had to hazard a guess, *true* Dark Age humans, with the full access to their technology and industry of the time, would curb stomp any faction in the modern setting, though Necrons and Tyranids *may* give them trouble. I'd put Dark Age humans at *below* the power level of the Aeldar during the same time period, however. Comparing their tech is difficult, because of how magical Aeldari tech is, but the capabilities of the Prime Aeldar Empire are simply incomprehensible.
It is likely, however, that the two empires maintained at least some form of lasting truce, as a war with Prime Aeldari would turn the Cybernetic Revolt into a footnote in history. Given the Craftworlds' initial role as trading ships -- combined with the lack of necessity for such vessels, in a society with a fully functional Webway -- it is likely that the Aeldari traded with the Dark Age humans. Very possibly, this is where the technological similarities between the modern Craftworlds and the Imperium come from.
Im gonna say they were pretty even, my logic says above them but i feel like that shouldn't be. My reasoning is, we know eldar at this time respected and maybe a war feared humanity and helped with the men of iron because of how much of a threat they were(got no source for this one, probably read somewhere but idk how reliable). These same eldar fought peak necrons and current necrons consider them worthy rivals. Eldar had their gods, necrons had c'tan, they even out without them. So therefore, humans that are respected by these eldars should at least be in a range were the necrons respect them too. This doesn't mean they were more technologically advanced, just that they were a worthy threat but that should imply their technology is not a joke in this context. So i would take my chances.... before finishing the video!
Wanna add to this, not sure when trazyn woke up, but if I remember correctly he saw the birth of slaneesh and probably saw golden humanity. He's impressed by then buy still considers them inferior, could be necron pride, maybe it's true, maybe he just didn't observe enough. Source for this is... the infinite and the divine, or the fall of cadia stuff I forgot when does he thinks this, pretty sure he was thinking to himself though
@@mahe7744Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
@@notladnstuff7976 ur very out of the conversation here. This is golden age humanity. There's no big e or astronomicon.
eldar fuck whatever they want to call it
Say thanks to Slaneesh 😉
In one bookn and old ship with a ai said how it gladly called humans masters but they fallen from grace and no longer deserve that tittle like the men of irpn loved humans but they did ssomtjing wrong thus losing there respect
that ship came from a time before the robot revolt thus was not effected like the other AI
@@TrenchCoatDingo but it would still be around for it would it not
I have to respectfully disagree on this
Human has a fraction of a fraction of the time the Necrons had and they lacked assistance from the Ctan and yet got to a level where prime eldar did not want to mess with them
Imagine another million years ?
There also another fact
It is canonical that humanity is still and evolving race
Unlike eldar and Necrons we are *far* from our peak
And yet we have pariahs a feature nonexistent in any other race
And have the new superpower of "faith"
Humans which seem to be able to use psychic like powers in the freaking pariah nexus
(To bad GW isn't going anywhere with this.....)
These are 2 completely busted abilities which only human beings can display
It seems like humanities only problem is everyone else likes to team up to try to end us from all the gods of chaos to 99.99% of xenos (theres a reason the imperium is "xenophobic" and 15 times out of 10 its the xenos's damn fault)
and yet we are still everywhere
DAOT humanity wouldv stomped on the Ncrons outta pure scientific/athiestic prowess.
@@honkhonk8009 keep coping
That is what the Emporer was banking on the psychic awakening of humanity and them taking Eldars place
The interex and I think DAOT humanity as a whole weren't really that xenophobic from what I know. If they were Imperium-level assholes, many xenos races, potentially including orks, would just not exist.
@@honkhonk8009Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
The Necrons/Necrontyr suck at medicine.
If only the Old Ones would have given the Necrontyr some chemo.
The Emperor could basically learn anything from just touching it - Perturabo inherited a lesser version of this skill because Big -E's version can use the warp to visit the "history" of the object to see how old and how it came to be,
He was able to do this at the Data Vaults of Mars by simply putting his hand o the doors he was able to tell which pieces of Dark Age tech they could safely use and which was too dangerous and had to be kept sealed.
This is why Orlanius, the First Warmaster, burnt the library of Eunecia to the ground. If the Emperor had been exposed to that knowledge it would have turned him into a reality warping abomination, more or less the Dark King he almost became on the Vengeful Spirit.
Your also forgetting that in 40K alot of humanity's tech from the Dark Age is influenced by the dreams of the Void Dragon so if there are some uncanny similaries between Humanity's Tech and the Necrons Tech that is because its coming from the same source - albeit Humanity recieves in it bits and pieces where as the Necrons got it all downloaded at once into their computer brains.
(Volkite Weapons are just as devastating as any Gauss Weapon the Necons have for example)
What does “daot” stand for?
Dark Age of Technology it's just easier to abbreviate it to DAoT sometimes
@@HypospaceYT ah ok
I can't escape dolmen
Humanity’s
The Eldar should have ended up far more advanced than the Necrons. Their incredible lifespans, their obsession with perfection and the 60 million years where they were utterly dominant in the galaxy should have seen them far exceed what the Necrons accomplished prior to and during The War In Heaven. When the Necrons went into hibernation, there would have been vast amounts of their technology left behind for the Eldar to examine.
Lmao, no
Daot humanity absolutely dabs on all other races barring the old ones
They wouldn't be able to handle Eldar either.
@@meetdavidothespy nah your mad, eldar had one thing going for them. They can create psychic manifestations on large scale (gods)
Daot had guns that could turn back time. On exploration ships.
@@meetdavidothespy daot had weapons that literally ate reality, warp included. They were capable of putting Holes in EXISTENCE ITSELF
@@meetdavidothespy when i said they wouldnt dab on old ones i just meant the old ones would put up a fight, daot humainty woyld still win though
Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
I think Humanity was incredibly close. Just before the war against the men of iron, technology had reached an exponential growth, which was the cause of the singularity of AI and subsequent conflict. If we had, somehow, managed to cooperate with AI, led by the emperor, I think it would have taken mere decades to a
chieve parity with any other race. As a second chance, if the primarchs hadn't been spred out to other planets and the heressey hadn't happened, it might have taken just a century after 30.005 (the begenning of the heresey in our timeline).
What really killed us was chaos' interference with AI.
Give the Tau a few years and they will be on top.
Mix of dark age tech, necron tech, and tau tech would end the warp, tyranids,etc
No need for tau they are useless
Here is the plot twist, The gods of warhammer 40k is actually other beings who tryed to reach the true god of all universes, and the necrons are trying to achive the same thing are to far behind because they can not creat AI with out self destruction.They understand creating AI will just demolish their own existence so, avoding AI tech is the best option to secure their own safty. Not being able to creat AI is also why they cant achive the warhammer 40k god level.