Hey all! This was a question submitted on the discord (albeit a little while ago) so feel free to ask a question here or on the server and it may be made into a future video! It's been a while and sorry about that life stuff and all. Anyway I'm coming back to making videos! This one may be a bit rough around the edges but I'm just trying to get back into the swing of things. Hope you enjoy it one none the less!
Nop... Human peak of tech was much superior than necron. 2 things point to it. 1 Even necrons seek STCs. 2 The eldar, that was made to fight necrons, did not even engage with humans in their peak due to fear.
I think DAOT Humanity would be on par with the current state of the Necron. But, if you compare them with the War in Heaven Necron, their technological gap is just large. To put it simply the Celestial Orrary was the only weapon allowed by the Silent King to remain and not be destroyed. The celestial Orrary itself is currently the most powerful weapon in the setting, so imagine what weapons the Necrons were able to pull off during their prime.
@@vestricaptiosus9861 yeah but they were more or less Ghaseous mass of star eating jellyfishes with barely any sentience. The Necrons gave them vessels that could proprely handle their power and as a result made them smarter and way more dangerous
Necrons actually banned the use of most AI, operating under similar limitations to the Imperium of Man (that is, if it's not a Necrontyr mind or a low level machine spirit - and they even call them machine spirits - it's not allowed). It gets mentioned in the Twice-Dead King novel series, Phaeron Oltyx is suspicious of the Cryptek Mentep for having a custom-made canoptek pet (Xott) which seems suspiciously sentient (and turns out, in the end, to be a backup of Mentep's own mind in a canoptek body).
@@JoshBeck-z5m It's intentionally unclear. Like humans, Necrons have a semi-mystical view of technology (they see no difference between science and sorcery), so their canoptek intelligences (including and particularly the guiding intelligence of their tombs) are also "machine spirits" to most of them. However, it is strongly suggested by other texts that that is how people who do not comprehend technology understand simple AI processes. But then additionally humans can actually do magic, so if a human is doing magic to an AI... that may also explain some Mechanicus things.
That's why rather than millions of years, it took humans a few thousand to have absurd, physics breaking tech. A self improving general AI would be almost godlike to even the most powerful organic brain, before you even finished asking it a question, it could predict what you were going to say and access all relevant data, and the societies that embraced it would have exponential technological growth. Combined with the essential immortality of the Necrons and Eldar in their prime, that could explain why DAoT machines could clear a planet of enemy forces "in an eyeblink", while the Necrons rely on plodding warriors which have repeatedly failed to prevent their tombworlds from being destroyed.
@@JoshBeck-z5m I don't know how the Necrons define the term. But for humanity, machine spirits might be just superstition, or a low-level AI, or possibly warp/psychic influence.
Part of the problem is how much GW has changed its treatment of the DAOT over the years. In the beginning, it wasn't so much that humanity had reached some apex of technological development that it will never return to, so much as the fact that technology was both ubquitous and well understood. Less a matter of "Every trooper was wearing artificier armour and rocking around with digital lascannons and reality-warping weapons", and more of a "Sergeant Jones has an auspex and at least a rough idea of how it works". But GW exercises almost no editorial control over its authors, and when you have an evocative name like the Dark Age of Technology, it's inevitably going to get portrayed as though there was some apex of achievement, rather than a shift in understanding.
It does make it a lot more Grimdark though if you were basically had the potential for Culture like human civilizations and then are reduced to what 40K humanity is. It also makes sense considering that self-improving general AI would be capable of absolutely ridiculous thinking power in comparison to even the most enhanced organic brain, making exponential strides in technological understanding and how human societies that embraced it were organized.
Good question! I've gone through scenario after scenario in my head and I almost wrote an entire essay, there is so much stuff that could happen that this may become a video. I can give you a brief rundown though! Should this happen and assuming that the change is instant the galaxy would be faced with humanity at it's true potential once more. Depending on how diplomatic and understanding some of these factions may be they may ally themselves with humanity such as the Tau, they may not confederate but a mutual understanding could be met. The borders would grow greater than that of the Imperiums even during the great crusade meaning that many species you may know would no longer be around. There will still be areas that Humanity has to defend itself from as even during the dark age they struggled against the Orks, meaning in all likelihood they would still be an issue. It would also be safe to assume that should the Tyranids or Necrons find themselves facing off against mankind then the situation wouldn't change too much from if they were to find them before the age of strife as their relative strength would be the same. Seeing as the Imperium is holding off against these threats and considering how disjointed and un-organised they are, DAOT humanity should do fine to a degree, it just depends on how many Necrons re-awaken and how many Tyranid hive fleets appear in humanities borders. Chaos would also have a greater dominance over them, during the DAOT there were not as many warp storms nor the great rift in the Galaxy. Therefore they may try to find other ways in which to navigate the Galaxy including possibly repairing the Golden Throne (Should the Emperor still be sat on it) and even provide the technological know how to re-create technology that the Mechanicus cannot. These are just a few examples but there are a tonne of other things that could occur, I'll save it for the video though as this comment is getting waaaayyy too long! I'm sorry I can't give you more details here, but keep an eye out and I'll upload this once I've got the chance :)
DAoT humanity would absolutely CURBSTOMP the 40k galaxy... the only faction that really would be a major threat is the necrons because of their superior technology but outside of them the rest of the galaxy is fucked
@@HypospaceYT no, the Orks struggled against DAoT Humanity, the Orks had to sign non aggression pacts with Humanity during the Dark Age of Technology because of how powerful Humanity has become
@@justinianthegreat1444 pretty sure they didnt sign non aggression pacts the orks were simply nearly driven to extinction to the point where humanity didnt need to bother about fighting them anymore
The thing with daot humanity tech is that it can do whatever the writer feels like at the moment. A gun that not only kills you but makes it do you didnt exist and everyone forgets you did? Fits in a pistol. Sure the necrons will probably always have the best tech as thats their role in the story, but every time a writer pulls something out of their ass humanity will end up being just a little closer to them.
Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
@@notladnstuff7976 You're missing his point. At any point, an author can just say, "Actually the Celesital Orrery was a time-traveling super weapon sent by DAoT Mankind to the past by the Emperor to safeguard it from the Horus Heresy because he'll need it in the future". Now, the Celestial Orrery is a DAoT human invention.
DAOT humasnity tends to "cheat" by teching with both Warp tech and material realm tech, while Eldar and Necrons tend to have essentially capstoned their respective specialty. So comparing them doesn't always work out as you'd think.
But DAOT humanity was still a baby compared to the Eldar and Necrons. The length of time it took them to achieve that level of tech was an eye-blink compared to the amount of time the Eldar and Necrons had to develop. Also, just as the Heresy started, a Mechanicum Magos was on the cusp of gaining access to all knowledge in the universe. This would have elevated humans to the level of the C'Tan, or higher.
@@cleanerben9636 This seems to be a recurring theme in 40k. Great opportunities lost or ultimate victory stolen right at the last. Even though I know how things will turn out, I'm still find myself hoping that they will succeed in the novels.
@@Chosen_Ash lol nah. The celestial orrery which can wipe out stars with the blink of an eye was the WEAKEST of the galactic weapons that the necrons had, as it was the only one that Szarekh allowed to be left and not destroyed. If you were to compare the Big E pre throne and Szarekh, it's put into perspective how ridculously overpowered the necrons were. The Big E (the most powerful single human that we know of to exist in the setting) canonically struggled when wrestling ONE SHARD of a ctan into the labrynths under Mars. Szarekh, who keep in mind has no innate special abilities like the emperor, had PERSONAL superweapons so powerful, that he soloed ALL the ctans and sharded them himself. You also forget that the necrons defeated the Old Ones in the 2nd War in Heaven. The OLD ONES, who seeded most all life in the galaxy, and of whom the entire race are described to be akin to gods in power. The war in heaven necrons would obliterate DAoT humanity.
But then you get narrations from pieces of lore like the recent Pariah Nexus, where the techpriests brought with them some techscraps from the Dark Age of Technology that gave the Necron a run for their money. When everyone started pulling out weapons of mass destruction, the techpriests used satelites with high intensity beams that could evaporate even top of the line Nekron ships, weapons that generate black holes to banish enemies from existance, nanobots capable of eating away Nekron armies and fleets and so on... You also have pretty old lore where is describe how weapons like the original titans from the Dark Age were exponentialy more powerful that even the most powerful Titan from the Horus Heresy or that people had access to power suits and weapons that can turn a normal human into something more deadly than an Astartes... so who knows for me Humanity from the Dark Age were pretty close if not at the level of Nekrons.
not to mention that DAoT mankind's guns that could erase the target's existence out of reality to have never existed was made in enough numbers that one or two managed to survive to the great crusade and still be used, though its never said what the guns where used for, instead of being locked in a vault for being to valuable to loose. hell, one of the time worm-snake machine that can black out stars by coiling around them alone would solo most of the factions
I think one example was that terminator armour was originally just reinforced armour for mining operations and is now the top level of personal protection the imperium can provide.
Okay, but counterpoint: without Vulcan, humanity would have lost to The Beast and even when they're not using "Dark Age" stuff, they still had weapons made by the Dark Mechanicus and stuff designed by Big E, which I assume would have been based off of DAoT stuff, sure, the resources and factories to produce DAoT stuff have disappeared, but Big E had the knowledge to make them. And yet, despite that, they lost to The Beast and had to sacrifice a Primarch to beat him. Also, Titans more powerful than the ones the Imperium currently uses don't mean anything when Krorkz were literal Knight sized so their Warbosses were presumably even larger than that. And also, Krork had battle moons, not just Titans and yet the Necron managed to push them back every step of the way.
Cool. Necron goes to celestial orrery that the imperium does not even know exists and taps on Terra killing big e and cutting humanity off from warp travel. Big e gets ressurected but all of humanity is cut off from themselves and are eaten piecemeal by the rest of the galaxy. Boom necrons win by using their weakest super weapon while DAOT humanity has its strongest stuff too. The only way to win is plot otherwise since humanity can't stop the celestial orrery they win everytime.
@@notladnstuff7976 the Necrons are way to divided and tribal at this point without the silent king to be able to act on anything like that involving the orrery, especially if its just one random dynasty thats getting smacked by the imperium
One of the Necron Crown worlds was built in and resides within the heart of a sun, a feat that has never(as far as we know) and curently cannot be matched by any other race in 40k. It is utterly impossible to access said crown world from the outside without the use of the dolemon gates. I think this alone gives a fairly good representation of their power. That being said there are texts that make the claim that humanity during the DAOT even surpassed the Eldar in their prime who were themselves supposed to be comparable to the Necrons. I think the real answer as I've discovered over my decades of being a 40k fan is that Games Workshop has very inconsistent lore that they can, have and will discard or rewrite at any given moment, so it's best not to get too worked up about it.
personally i dont think the DAOT beat the eldar when we are talking about timeframe both empires existed at the same time and where at somewhat of a cold war neither really wanted to destory the other and the eldars empire was much larger the eldar at their peak i would say durning the war in heaven as you had all kinds of crazy shit going on. daot where in a realitively peaceful galaxy and the eldar where basically becoming extremely degenerate so their empire was degrading tbh
not realy that were the Orks but that's only because just like the TAU they weren't really fun to fight against. And no humanity and the Aldari were never really interested in each other, because the Elder didn't really see us as worth there time especially since they mostly resided in the galactic core where there core worlds and there main web way gates resided which might as well be an entire pockey universe all on its own before it became the eye of Terra. They were exclusively relegated to the web way while humanity was exliusive to the warp sl they really didn't care that much about each other. And no there opinions on humanity at there prime though slightly higher than humanity it was all but the same as they so humanities rise as a short period of grace that will die in a couple thousand years. They believed humanities own technological might and AI constructs would be there down fall. At least the Eldars constructs were controlled by there gods and AI just being artificial souls that were tied to the Aldari species itself since all Elder and there technological (which was warp based to gurentee better user interference) were psychicly connected in some weird hippie dipie psychic net gureenting there wraith constructs never rebeld . What did humanity have to temper there technology? There own words and the hollow sense of control to keep there constructs who they had given sentients placated hoping they would keep listening to them. Heres an exerpt from the book wrealth flight *" Iyanna had seen examples of artifice from many human cultures. At the height of their art, humanity had made ugly things, and in this age of the Corpse-Emperor they were far from their height. Their ships were an offence to the eye."* *Wraithflight* In other wards there opinions were more or less the same as they just saw us upstarts who would flicker and die like the millions of Empires that came before them during the Aedlaris 60 million years or reign. And they weren't wrong less than 9 thousand yeard of our golden age and when we tally the age of pure collective human civilization less than 30 thousand years and our enrure civilization collapsed on us over night. We essentially created outright God's thinking we could control them, the Aeldari were subservient to there gods not the other way around. Especially since there's a lot evidence most of mankind's warp based technologies and even there self healing constructs were based of ancient Aeldari technology due to how similar most of there tech was interns of function and how they always ended up filling a similar role as Aeldari tech. And not to mention the Elder were so powerful the silent king retreated and put the entire necron race to sleep just so they could wait them out. To be fair this was when the Aeldari had there God's anf when tge necrons were weekend from shattering tge Ctan but still those are massive shoes to fill and all it takes is DAOT humanity delaying there daily shipment of Aphrodisiacs and dildos by destroying one of there core worlds and it would be GGs for mankind.
@@CopeSeethorntin i wouldnt say the silent king was afraid of the rising eldar but we have to look at it as you said they just shattered their gods, and they jsut got done fighting was was them vs the old ones, eldar, korks, the organgatan looking aliens, and a few others the old ones made. the silent king made them go to sleep so they can come back to a galacy where the eldar where much easier to deal with and to also recoperate their strenght while he and his army went into the void fighting tons of tyranids before he returned. peak necrons would still beat peak eldar
As someone who's spent the last 30 odd years delving into the lore of this universe I can say without doubt; There is No good answer to this question, there is No good answer to basically Any question in Warhammer, with the sole exception of, Wanna have a narrative campaign?
There's that story about a DAOT ship that got lost into the warp but found its way out in the current setting. And for the few power demonstrations it made, I don't think we were far behind on the scale. Especially if eldari respected humanity back then. I guess the only real difference is that we still have no idea how Necrons FTL travel works, but they clearly mastered it way more that humanity did during the DAOT.
Humanity also made the ai that can guide ships in the warp and can phase ships form one period to another to destroy them tbh we just don’t know but I feel ancient humanity would dominate necrons since the current still fairs pretty week regardless of necrons are only semi activated
Look at it this way, Necron are master at physical tech but little to none on the warp tech. Eldar are a counter to Necrons so they are master at warp tech but behind them in physical tech. Humanity in the DAOT, in my opinion, is not the equal in either of the category to the Necron or Eldar but they got a good mix of both as evidence with the Golden throne and the STC
Yeah somehow the necrons never give anything on health science while humanity during the dark age of technology wipeout virtually every disease and made themselves functionally immortal and can dabble on warp shenanigans with tech
I’d like to add that it is in general hard to compare the technology of “the” three races because they are mutually alien. The Necron’s technology is purely real space based, them having worshipped and depended upon C’Tan, who despise the warp. The Aeldari’s is very nearly warp based, them being a psyker species. Humans? Well humans is sort of a combination of both. They’re kind of the middle, the mean of Eldar and Necron.
The Necrons had a source of energy humans had not, the Ctan. In theory, they would be equal or inferior to humans, if the Ctan were not allowing them to fuel technologies humans had only in theoretical exercises, because there was no source of energy to test the theories.
They were actually super-advanced before the C'tan found them, they just amped them up with more advanced tech and ideas from the C'tan, especially the Void Dragon.
Yip, crons were super advanced. They had been dicked into early deaths because the deceiver had set up shop on their sun and caused them all sorts of problems(deliberately some would say, as he saw the fun times ahead). They had the tech just not the life spans to utilise it for its ultimate ends. Like living metal, this was a necrontier technology that the ctan souped up for them.
Dark age of tech scout ship deleted a space marine strike fleet. One shoting each ship. DAoT and Neocons are at a level were war is just stupid. Both sides lose.
The reason the Emperor didn't do anything in DAOT is simple: he was not around forever. He is one of the Men of Gold. Why is he the only one? They all perished fighting the men of iron but he's a perpetual and regenerated. This explains his recent appearance and surprising ignorance.
That's my theory as well. The Emperor being an artificial being a MoG or whatever fits in nicely with the whole theme of human's making artificial beings like men of gold/stone/iron and then the more modern Thunder Warriors, Primarchs, Marine, Primaris etc. Would also explain why there's an existing lab working on such being's and why the golden throne is a thing.
No chance the men of gold were all emperor level beings and managed to end up dying in a war that barely got any attention from the rest of the galaxy.
Tbf Chaos does say he stole their power for the making of the 20, fully possible dude managed to find a way to steal some of their powers and become powerfull enougg to rival them @@mryellow6918
I've heard a story, but don't know a source for it, that an ancient Imperium supply ship got jumped by the Dark Eldar at one point. And they were losing. Badly. Then some ancient, long forgotten AI protocol deep in the core of the ship woke up, activated an ancient super-weapon, and fired something at the Eldar ship that, just by clipping the ship, caused a chunk of the ship to MERGE WITH IT'S OWN FUTURE SELF, causing instant nuclear fusion. The AI then went back to sleep and the weapon vanished, leaving the Dark Eldar to limp away. At least according to THIS story, DAOT Humanity had at least breached the openings of time travel, and had WEAPONIZED it.
The Necrons have a much better understanding of temporal physics though, with their Cryptek Chronomancers being able to routinely and casually use time travel to effectively savescum failed battles and scenarios until they get it right. There are multiple examples of Orikan doing this, such as attacking a Space marine homeworlds way before a battle that they would originally intervene in and ruin his plans for, and to change a tomb worlds that was unawakened during an imminent invasion into one that was fully awakened and prepared for the battle. Granted, there are few examples outside of Orikan himself doing this in the modern era, but given that most of the Necrons are still asleep, unorganized and disunited, this would have been much more common during the War in Heaven when ALL of the Necrons had their shit together.
DAOT humans have implied to have used Ctan also as an energy source. The mysterious dragon in Mars and etc. And they have nanotech that ate through Necron living metal(cmiiw necrodermis?) body, giving them true death. They also used to bend time and space to teleport, nanoworms that eats stars and space, and blackhole bombs, and buttfck the dreaded final and true form of orks that theywrre deemed as a pest rather than an existential threat.
Its a neat video, but you do miss out on the parts where DAOT humanity surpasses the Necrons, even at their zenit. For instance, DAOT humanity had a comparable mastery of the physical universe, but arguably better material control of matter. While Necrons have living metal, which is VERY usable and pliable, DAOT humanity created what is basically molecular inert matter - Adamantium for instance is harder than anything the Necrons ever produced, as is the auric-adamantium alloy which even surpasses that, if not in durability, so in durability to mass ratio. Sure, one could just say that Necrons never needed such matter - but they also never created it. While Necrons clearly surpass humanity in chronomancy, DAOT clearly surpasses the Necrons/Necrotyr in biomancy. (Genetic manipulation) as the Necrontyr never even figured out how to break their genetic flaws - while DAOT humanity was creating entire subspecies at a whim. (The Emperor MIGHT have had a finger in this, seeing as how he and Arda were the supreme gene-crafters even after the fall, and lived during the DAOT.) From what I have read up over the decades of being a lore nerd, I'd say Necrons are better at certain specialized fields, but humanity during the DAOT are very close in these fields - while DAOT are complete masters in others that Necrons never really became good at. Take Warp-based tech for instance. Necrons are really bad at it. As in, their Dolmen gates are a dead end tech that just brute forces the Web Way - and they cannot travel through the warp. They don't have access to it, understand it, have geller fields and so on. While humanity, both DAOT and current 40K Imperium, are far better at it. People usually shit on humanity even in the Imperial age in regards to tech, but NO OTHER FACTION even gets close to the left overs of DAOT like Void Shields or Teleportation. No xenos faction even HAS Void Shields. Its hard to measure different techs from what little we know. But DAOT humanity was a kind of generalist know how that came close but never surpassed Necrons in several lines of tech - but massively surpassed them in others. One should also note that DAOT humanity got to that level in a short amount of time - about 220 000 years. While it took the Necrons several million years (possibly 20-30 million years even, War in the Heavens is a very complicated topic that has changed since we started hearing about it some odd 20+ years ago).
Oh I absolutely agree with you that humanity had more of a generalised production when it came to their tech, which would as you say make them more advanced in certain areas like warp and medical/biological based tech, I should've gone into more detail here. For warp based tech it makes sense as the immaterium wasn't as chaotic until the war in heaven, for medical based science they were unable to cure themselves of the main reason they sought immortality so it would make sense that humanity would have the better edge in this area as well There was a quote from an author (I believe) that I really wanted to include that kind of sums up what you have said, but I could not find it anywhere unfortunately. It went something along the lines of "The Necrons had reached the peak of scientific discovery, humanity had just reached its peak" Now as I say I could not find this quote so it may not be accurate or even real, but I still feel it applies and also makes sense. The way I view it personally is the Necrons reached an absolute understanding of material universe, humanity a generalised (but still advanced) understanding of all the sciences and the Aeldari an absolute understanding of warp based tech. Each of these factions have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to their technology, it's just that some are better at understanding and creating technology when compared to others.
Alot of what you have stated is chalked up to the necrontyr's inherent weakness - the lack of a soul or connection to the warp in their race. The necrontyr were definitely still backward during the first war in heaven when the old ones slapped them back to their home planet - the old ones had access to their webway and warp powers whilst the necrontyr were still operating with sub-light travel. Instead of solving their genetic issues, they discovered the c'tan, which I would say fundamentally changed their direction in technology. Biotransferrance and the lack of any meaningful warp powers meant that they didn't need to work on genetic manipulation like DOAT humanity; but experiments by Illuminator Szeras and the quest of Szarekh to reverse biotransferrance tells me the necrons are slowly on their way to making DOAT leaps of genetic discovery. As for specialisation, their "warpless" nature (and general hatred of the warp) alongside c'tan guidance means that necrons will always end up being the most advanced race in terms of raw knowledge on physics. Even in terms of the warp, they managed to find a way to suppress it much better than arguably any race ever did via the pylons- the eldar have only managed to hide in the webway and we have seen that to not always be perfect (i.e. Magnus' Great Oopsy). Hell, the necrons had to close the eye of terror which the Old Ones had accidently opened during the War in Heaven. DOAT humanity's specialisation in AI could be argued to not be perfect, as they had to tap in with xenos help to defeat the Men of Iron. Even if we gave a hypothetic of DOAT humanity vs necrons, c'tan just unfortunately make it an unfair fight, as they are beings representing core fundamentals of reality. Sure DOAT humanity could develop more advanced material and genetic tampering, but when you are fighting a race which has explored dimensions other than the warp, it starts to look like an Old One vs Necron scenario. Teleportation and tech like the Pharos device compete more than comfortably with the webway. Nobody really won the War in Heaven, but considering the necrons were making breaches in the webway I'd say the only reason the eldar survived was because Szarekh decided to pokemon the c'tan. And the necrons still stand today as the most advanced race despite arguably losing their primary source of knowledge in the c'tan. DOAT humanity wouldnt be able to reach necron knowledge without guidance from something like the C'tan. They would still be hanging on warp based tech which would undoubtedly bite them in the ass when Chaos comes knocking.
This is really imperium biased. That assumes because the necrons don't uses something they don't have it or suck at it. Firstly who says the necrons have never developed auramite. Just becuae they don't use it doesn't mean they can't make it. Consider that firstly auramite like adamantium isn't indestructible. While necrodermis might be physically weaker its benefits of regeneration may compensate so much that necrons chose that over it. Moreover, we do know black stone is a relatively comparable material being described as "nigh indestructible". Again just because the necrons don't use something doesn't mean they don't have it. Necrons have their own for of quantum sheildi g that surpasses void sheild in many aspects. Orcs have their own form of void sheild as well. The reason that necrons don't use void shields is because they are warp based tech. Think about it this way. What point is their in developing warp based shielding when your opponents are literally warp gods. A void sheild vs an old one is like covering your tank in paper. We know the necrons had more advanced warp tech in areas that were relevant to then eg black stone pylons. Doat humans definitely didn't have these. Lastly, the necrons have the most access to teleportation of any faction in 40k. It's actually ridiculous. Literally every necron warrior teleports back to base when they fall in battle. This isn't counting necrons just teleporting into battle randomly. Not only that it's important to remember they do this WITHOUT the warp. Imperium teleportation is warp reliant while necrons is just plain old physics. Other then bio engineering and maybe warp stuff there isn't anything doat did better then the necrons. But at least In the case of warp craft we know the eldar were better then doat and the necrons had a whole galaxy shattering war with them.
now sure how you think humans are very close to necrons in chronomancy. "molecular inert matter"...not sure what are you even saying...those words...don't mean much. Argon is inert. If something is inert, its not going to be solid. Necrons never "created it"? Necrons created way better material than Auramic etc. All crypteks have "materials" made of whatever they specialised in(though i would extend the same treatment as..."those words don't make sense" to these but anyway..) So a necron that specialises in space manipulation, has a material made of space, if it makes sense(but hey writers are art majors) DAoT were never close to necrons in what the necrons were good at.
Great summary of necron and DAOT lore, I see decades of lore nerding in your words and your amazing mod for BFG2. Are you planning to expand Skalgrim mod?
Here's a great vs match though: Halo Forerunners vs Necrons. Those books detail some crazy shit like harvesting alternate universes for energy and building an entire dyson sphere as a blue-collar worker job
DAoT humanity may have been as advanced as necrons in a few fields, but also SORELY lagging behind in others. if humanity was able to make any equivalent to the celestial orrery or a world engine, there would be traces or mentions of it, and likewise necron pylons show that even in the realm of warp mastery, or at least containing the warp, the necrons were never matched by the Imperium (as if any such tech existed, big E would have spammed the HELL out of them in his war against chaos) also necron AIs are actually fairly advanced, filled with uncountable number of protocols to handle every situation on their own, especially when it comes to things like canoptek spyders that are tasked with defending and maintaining tomb worlds on their own while no necron is currently awake, and thts before considering machined like serapteks or monoliths that are fully automated war machines, which implies a high level of independance to adapt to changing battlefield conditions as well as to interpret and execute orders correctly. In that regard, the necrons do put the Tau drones to shame, but yeah unlike the imperium, they never tried to achieve sentience for their AIs, which may be why their AIs are safe and do not rebel barring bugs in their programming.
@@honkhonk8009 like I said, they arent sentient and have a limited programing.. but said programming is so through they might as well be as VERY few situations arent accounted in, and canoptek spyders alone are proof enough of that, having been able to maintain necron tombs through the entire great sleep (millions, if not billions of years, and basically everything that can happen will happen in such a long time period) without ANY oversight whatsoever. Thats some insane achievement
@@honkhonk8009 but at the same time, no sentience has its perks... Like, say, no risk of any AI revolt to begin with and complete obedience, which is a MASSIVE perks when chaos exists. Also we dont know how that programming is made, but even if its very labor-intensive, necrons would likely just see it as a valid way to pass the time since they have eternity ahead of themselves (we are talking about a race that sees nothing wrong with making and attending to year long uninterrupted stage plays after all or sitting motionless for days thinking about a single topic) And having such a comprehensive programming fit into anything smaller than an entire server room is already an achievement by today's standards, and they did it in a way that can keep on functioning for eons without any maintenance needed by an outside operator. Hell again the spyders themselves have programming through enough that they ARE the maintenance operators for other necron constructs as well as ordering them around, and if a task is too complex for a spyder, it will network with others to combine their problem-solving capabilities. All of that added up is FAR beyond anything we could dream to make irl, and in-universe, its way better than Tau drones that only handle relatively simple tasks and always have an operator they are linked to nearby, having no independance whatsoever. Only yhe men of iron were better AI wise (and maybe some stuff from the Votann), and they were so much better... That they had to be destroyed for it, which removes a lot of the achievement
Dark Age tech is only as powerful as the story needs it to be... HOWEVER, I would put forward that it is still inferior to Necron tech, *especially* at the Necrons' prime. I'm a big fan of Admech, but it logistically makes little sense for Dark Age tech to even reach Necron levels, let alone surpass them. It's simply not supported by the evidence we have: Imperial and Mechanicus relics, tech the Votann have managed to preserve, and the Van Saar gang's time skip. Even the Speranza, a ship on a power level never seen before or since in the Imperium, which had a gun with the capabilities to phase its target out of sync with time in order to collide with *itself* a fraction of a second in the future, whose mere firing spawns a black hole... even that pales in comparison to the Orrery, which is explicitly a piece of tech that was deemed "not dangerous enough" to be dismantled after the War in Heaven. If I had to hazard a guess, *true* Dark Age humans, with the full access to their technology and industry of the time, would curb stomp any faction in the modern setting, though Necrons and Tyranids *may* give them trouble. I'd put Dark Age humans at *below* the power level of the Aeldar during the same time period, however. Comparing their tech is difficult, because of how magical Aeldari tech is, but the capabilities of the Prime Aeldar Empire are simply incomprehensible. It is likely, however, that the two empires maintained at least some form of lasting truce, as a war with Prime Aeldari would turn the Cybernetic Revolt into a footnote in history. Given the Craftworlds' initial role as trading ships -- combined with the lack of necessity for such vessels, in a society with a fully functional Webway -- it is likely that the Aeldari traded with the Dark Age humans. Very possibly, this is where the technological similarities between the modern Craftworlds and the Imperium come from.
The Speranza and Orrery are two incomparable things though, one is a tactically useful weapon and one is a WMD that can't realistically be used in most circumstances... like comparing an F-22 raptor to a Soviet era nuke. Saying the later is more advanced because it is more powerful is silly. The Necrons despite all of their genius were still limited by organic minds just like the Eldar since they refused to adopt AI past limited forms. A self improving, general purpose AI connected to all of your culture's knowledge is incomprehensibly superior than any organic brain. There was an AI expert who said something like "imagine asking it a question related to a scientific research topic, and before you've even completed your sentence it has already accessed the entirety of all research ever done on the topic, as well as any related field and prepared an answer". This is why Oll describes machines fighting each other in the Cybernetic revolt and called it "incomprehensible to the human mind" compared to the "small thing" that was the Horus Heresy... and this was a guy whose seen primarchs and even the Emperor in action. When nanomachines can clear an entire planet "in an eyeblink", you're dealing with tactically superior tech that makes the plodding warriors of the Necrons, or basically all conventional warfare like we think of it, obsolete.
@TheChiconspiracy You're aware that much of the Necrons' tech was made in cooperation with eldritch god-beings tied intrinsically to the laws of the universe... right? Our AI, while utterly apocalyptic to *us*, was cute by comparison. The Necrons, in order to defeat the C'tan, utilized weapons that broke *causality*. The reason I mentioned the Orrery was to demonstrate the roughly lower end of Necron superweapons, vs the highest end of humans' (specifically *humans*, not Men of Iron). It was me trying to give humans a look in the best light I could possibly give. Your comparison of the Speranza/Orrery vs F-22/Old Nuke is stilted, because it pre-supposes a simplicity of design for the latter in both pairings. Which, while untrue, is also a complete red herring to the topic at hand. Besides, if you're gonna go on the "generally applicable" tangent, aside from just reading the lore we have available for both societies at their prime... shouldn't *you* be comparing like to like? Such as the creation of reliable FTL technology that isn't interfered with by metaphysical space storms.
@@secutorprimus Did those C'tan give then Necrons the ability to clear a planet of hostile forces "in an eyeblink" like the DAoT machines could? The fact that slow and plodding Necron warriors are (and were, considering they went to sleep with a bunch of them millions of years ago) relevant to their military strategy suggests otherwise... pathetically slow infantry that have failed repeatedly to stop other pathetically slow infantry from infiltrating and destroying their tombworlds and space stations.
@@TheChiconspiracy Based on what we know of the tech at the height of the War in Heaven... yeah, that's not an issue. Do you know what "break the law of causality" implies? If you want to compare the "slow and plodding necrons", their degenerated state, then we can only compare them directly to the modern Imperium. If we're comparing DAoT stuff, then we discuss War in Heaven Necrons (which, again, you bring up Men of Iron stuff, which is an invalid comparison) Listen, I love the DAoT lore, and the admech's obsession with it. But you're gonna have to learn a bit more about the setting, I think, to have this discussion.
@@secutorprimus You are genuinely retarded while you are right the necrons at their peak are more powerful then DAOT humanity your arguments are so terrible it's hilarious that while the other guy is wrong he is winning the argument.
I think that DAOT might have been able to reach Necron heights....if the AI war didn't happen. In the hypothetical timeline where DAOT humanity isn't destroyed and keeps improving, by 40K they would be approaching, but not at, War in Heavens Necrons. The main issue is that Necron's have a significant understanding of the warp that DAOT doesn't have, at least their pylon tech shows that they can completely shut it down. Further the C'tan were not only their tormentors but also great research subjects that DAOT doesn't have access to.
Time lords depends on the episoide doctor who is wildly inconsistent even compared to 40k so they range from completely one sided stomp to utter joke. The Xeelee are leagues above the Necrons having achieved complete mastery over the physical universe including time. I'd imagine the Xeelee would just ignore the necrons and stay focused on delaying the birds whose nesting habits will end the universe early. If the Necrons get really annoying maybe a lone Xeelee beats them down or they make a slight alteration in history so the Necrons are either friendly or just never advance to become space faring. No idea on the on the last one.
@@vonfaustien3957 I was thinking how the Necrons would react to all the stuff they had and how astronomically more capable and powerful they are from them even with all their C'Tan superweapons. For Doctor Who I will not be counting the show due to the abomination it became. I would stick with the narratives where in the EU the Glory exists and the multiversal cosmic being known as the Qauntum Archangel. Faction Paradox is a series that has off shoot from the Doctor Who series as it's separate genre. It is very similar to the properties of the Doctor Who cosmology with time travel and multiversal beings though it is more dark fantasy aspects in it then Doctor Who normally does. It has multiversal creatures which create universes like bubbles just by swimming around called the Leviathans massive cosmic beasts of ridiculous size they are millions of time bigger then a 100 billion light year in diameter universe. The Great Houses are alot like the Time Lords though a bit more dark and indifferent. I heard how Faction Paradox can fight with the Xeelee and keep up as a proactive challenge.
One thing the DAoT did that wasn't surpassed by the Necrons was the Sperenza. Spoilers for Forges of Mars ahead, btw. The AI that inhabited it was apparently omniscient. And at the very least it was completely unbothered by the attempt of an hereteck to hack it while that tech-priest was empowered/possessed by a shard of the void dragon.
@@Nat-ri3ip Necrons didn't need A.I since they had the Ctan, beings of countless shards/souls, but if they did need A.I, the Necrontyr had the capacity to do it since Ctan, at first, were literally just unthinking jellyfish who only knew how to eat. The body Necrons gave the Ctan allowed them to think like any other A.I would.
@@Nat-ri3ip No, Orikan realized that he literally couldn't handle the kind of omniscient mindset Ctan have, that's why he went insane in the first place, because a normal Ctan has a perfect understanding of the universe.
I don't know why people keep comparing Necrons with DAoT. Their technology aren't even similar. If anything, DAoT seem more similar to Dark Eldar tech, than Necrons. Generally, Necrons are considered the best, so DAoT/DE got nothing on them, but the stuff the Necrons don't do well, DAoT seem alright...as well as....the Dark Eldar.
I'm no expert, but isn't the current idea that the Necrons, Humanity, and Aeldari were on different technological trajectories in their prime? Necrons were all in on the materium. Eldar were focused on psychic tech. (Not that, in terms of physics and such, they weren't way more advanced than present day humanity, but I mean their ultimate super focus was more on the psychic side of tech), while Humanity was more in between, more on a trajectory in between, more of a merging of psychic and material tech? (Well, at least before everything went poopy) So, as I understand it, humanity would have never matched the pure material physics tech of the necrons because humanity was going in a different direction, and would have achieved different things. (At least that's my understanding of the current semi official view, that comparing the three is tough because all three were going in different directions)
You are right. Necrons never went into psyk tech becasue they are all dead. Eldar never went into physics tech much becasue they had the warp. Humanity is indeed inbetween.
DAoT humans given enough time(millions of years), could easily have surpassed both the Necrons and Eldar, as instead of being specalists in one field, they were generalists that were fluent in both worlds, Unfortunatly, the knife ear "sax" cults destroyed that possibility trough their "shenanigans" :p
Weren't the Eldars still the dominant power in the galaxy during the Dark Age of Technology? How powerful was humanity if they were still beneath the notice of Eldars?
Pretty sure they had a none aggression pact. So DAOT wasn't beneath the Eldar and both were comparable enough to each other that both sides avoided open conflict
Re: C'tan, you overlooked the fact that humanity does, in fact, have one: the Void Dragon/Dragon of Mars, master of technology. And it's not only been there since before the Necron rewrite had the C'tan retconned into shards, but even post-sharding it's big and powerful enough for the Necrons to throw a World Engine at the heart of the Imperium. As such, we have to assume a degree of parity in that regard--in which case we only have the question of time, with humanity being only a few tens of thousands of years old at its height.
There was written somewhere, that Eldar during DAoT have won battle against humanity. Maybe its just eldar lies, but would be interesting to explore how modern Eldar tech can be compared to DAoT humanity and how Eldar tech changed since DAoT.
It was from a stupid Eldar wank story where a tiny handful of Harlequins also massacred dozens of custodes like they were Soviet conscripts in an 80s action movie.
Fun fact one of the remaining Q'Tan is pretty much the main reason for the mechanicus existence. This kind of leads me to believe that the current tech in the imperium is infant necron tech, so given enough time humans could catch up or perhaps surpass the necrons. Only if humans stopped being superstitious as they currently are in 40k
The biggest difference is self general purpose AI, which neither the Necrons or Eldar embraced. That's the reason that the cybernetic revolt was impossible to understand for a human mind currently witnessing the Horus Heresy, a guy who knew the emperor and had seen him in action. When you have something that can access all information and make decisions before even an enhanced organic brain's neurons start to fire, you're going to have absurd gains in basically everything that you can think of, from military tactics and scientific research to how society is organized. It results in machine supercomputers that can casually thwart the future sight of Farseers and the ability to clear a planet of hostiles "in an eyeblink" with tiny drones... they simply think and react far too fast for any organic brain to deal with. The fact that the Necrons actually rely on plodding warriors for defense (which have failed multiple times to stop even the fallen eldar and primitive 40k humans from destroying ancient tombworlds and constructs) shows that they may have been more advanced in many ways than humans were (especially WMDs) but their tactical prowess was severely lacking.
I believe a little recent book series both the necrons and the imperium finds an old human automated defense platform and neither one could get even close to it cuz it keeps gunning them down.
This video's missing bits from recent books. There's human designed webway gates in the recent cawl vs bile book that were useable. The recent campaign book for the pariah nexus has the necrons throwing their super weapons at super weapons from the vaults of mars leading to a stalemate. Additionally something that should be taken in more ought to be adrathic weaponry that was probably closer to their later standards that straight up stops atoms from binding with eachother or vortex weaponry humanity made with either no psykers or stupidly weaker psykers than the ones in the current human genepool. Also the votann melee weapons which straight up disable the ability of mechanical or biological things to function The philosophy in tech seems to be different and kinda barely comparable. The necrons abuse physics while humans from the few looks at the age of tech seem to try and break physics in one way or another. But the pariah nexus stalemate I think is the most definitive proof they're at least comparable since both factions rn are using the scraps of their old super weapons and are at a standstill
well tbf, other factions in 40K had like millions of years of times to grow while humanity only managed to achieve some semblance of technology around a few thousand years ago. given enough time we would probably ascend into a pure energy based life form or something
Im gonna say they were pretty even, my logic says above them but i feel like that shouldn't be. My reasoning is, we know eldar at this time respected and maybe a war feared humanity and helped with the men of iron because of how much of a threat they were(got no source for this one, probably read somewhere but idk how reliable). These same eldar fought peak necrons and current necrons consider them worthy rivals. Eldar had their gods, necrons had c'tan, they even out without them. So therefore, humans that are respected by these eldars should at least be in a range were the necrons respect them too. This doesn't mean they were more technologically advanced, just that they were a worthy threat but that should imply their technology is not a joke in this context. So i would take my chances.... before finishing the video!
Wanna add to this, not sure when trazyn woke up, but if I remember correctly he saw the birth of slaneesh and probably saw golden humanity. He's impressed by then buy still considers them inferior, could be necron pride, maybe it's true, maybe he just didn't observe enough. Source for this is... the infinite and the divine, or the fall of cadia stuff I forgot when does he thinks this, pretty sure he was thinking to himself though
@@mahe7744Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
The answer is much more radical to put simply. Necrons, Eldar, and Daot have their own tech trees. For example, during the height of their power Necrons created technology that currently the Silent King made them forget. Breath of the Gods is the prime example. It was clear in the book, it capable of erasing timelines if missused, so erasing multiverse. And arguably breath of the gods is one among countless tech that the silent King makes the forgot. And speaking of tech, in current setting, Silent king with his dynasty, built the entire dyson sphere and arranging multiple solar system in a span of 4 years. Yet, humanity also possessed their own unique tech that the necrons are incapable to replicate. (Note: people said omniphages could destroy necrons, but the necrons have their own version and more advanced. Necrons could literally eat the entire planet and built fleets with it in spans of hours) And we are not speaking about their pops, in the Infinite and the Divine, Necron Infinite Empire's territory was in the billions of planets at the end of the war in heaven. During the peak it would be most likely more. And remember, we are speaking necrons that rivalled old ones, Eldar, and Krorks back then. And in current eldar, with a half of dozen of Craftworld, they are capable performing ritual that destroyed hundreds of stars. Personally, Daot are no match for any War in heaven factions. Heck, humanity got beaten by the Eldar back in the Daot era.
I think the DAoT is closer to the Battletech universe. Given that the dark age of GW they are known to liberate lore from other franchises, it's very playsible.
I would say they were pretty close. The Necron's current most advanced piece of equipment from their heyday is the Celestial Orrery, a live star map that can maniplate reality, and it's so powerful and protected that the Dynasty that takes care of it stays NEUTRAL in the war against all other life the rest of the Necron race seems to happily commit to, and will permenently ban any Dynasty that uses the map for their own end if they are ever given the honor of seeing it. Dark Age Humanity had the Ontologial Gun, a retrocausal erasal gun. A Retroactive Continuity Gun, or a Retcon Gun. A gun that Literally erased you from time. It didn't Move you to the far end of time. It ERASED YOU. FROM TIME. But the thing is, this is just the HAND HELD MODEL. The SMALLER version for LIMITED USE. We didn't invent the handgun first, we invented a BIG gun, then tried to make it smaller and easier to use. A gun that could erase something from all of time? You can BET DAOT Humanity had BIG Ontological Guns. If you look up the chrono weapons of the Necrons, they really only have time stop, slow, or accelerate time for themselves or others. But as far as I know, they don't have any weapon that retroactively kills a person. Weshammer mentioned it in a video, and IIRC it was written about in the Lord of the First book. From how I hear it described, an Astartes used it on 25 infected crewmen he knew. He had eidedic memory, but even he struggled to remember any details past the basic, such as that there were 25 of them, and they were armed with stub pistols and wrenches. You'll find plenty of people saying the Orrery, or maybe the Tachyon Arrow, or the Doomsday Cannon. DAOT Humanity MIGHT not have had something like the Celestial Orrery, we don't know for sure, but they for sure had plenty of different weapons like the Tachyon Arrow and Doomsday Cannon. The only similar object, vastly more powerful and dangerous, but vastly more difficult to control and use, is the Breath of the Gods. Which could similarly manupilate time, siphoning power from stars in the past, present, and future, for basically infinite power. It could create or destroy entire solar systems, or destroy the timeline. But still, that's why I say they were close. We still know very little about the weapons of the DAOT, only finding the most miniscule crimes against reality.
Necrons do have vast planet wide Ai systems that control the awakening processes/ repair functions. If a tomb world loses its ruling cast they can take control and orchestrate the affairs of the tomb worlds until a command chain takes control or is given control. Some times these systems parasite them selves into other sleeping tombs removing the leaders to remain in control of isolated empire. These AI’s are not the most adaptable but they make up for this with ruthless methodical tactics that grind their foes down.
We are entirely ignorant of the DAoT's society, politics, and culture. However, both of them would inevitably interact...poorly. Both would face a foe that could hurt them incredibly hard. They would regret any conflict that occours on a sufficient scale, which the pride of both would inevitability bring them too.
i believe the DAoT humans were on par or above, they casually had guns that automatically detected enemy fire, then returned fire by forming a blackhole at the place where the fire came from. this is a leftover of the weapons, and it was used by the nightlords as a last resort. the ai ship from the dark age said humans were on the brink of transcendence, which i take as on the brink of becoming gods. this negates the ctan, as they are not necrons.
The big point is that the necromancy - even tho they have kept most of their tech - have also lost their greatest weapons. C’tan breaker guns or the breath of the gods were just too powerful, but they need were either destroyed or in the case of the breath of the gods need an entire unbroken c’tan to operate fully
idk about not catching up at least if AI hadn't revolted... The necronyr had who knows how long of time building their empire and technology BEFORE they faced the old ones and were already the undisputed technology masters only being rivaled by said old ones warp based abilities. They already could travel take the war to others in galaxy back then before any C'tans and then had another 5 million years after that with also the help of the C'tan to progress further whose help they don't have anymore and some amount of time after. Meanwhile humans went from barely making it out of the atmosphere to conquering the galaxy in a little over 10k years and over the course of another 10k became not only the dominant force in the galaxy but arguably the 2nd best technologically to the point what little bit of the less dangerous stuff that is still allowed to exist is still overwhelmingly powerful in modern era. Basically Necrons had millions of years of headstart but humans once they really started trying were speed running things at exponential rates until AI rebelled... and even then they might have been fine if they weren't being plagued by warp storms starting around then too. Of course that was pregame history and this is at the end a game and status quo needs to be maintained so it wont happen but in a world that is built like 40k you could definitely see them making a come back and going even more ham then before. It'd be more or less inevitable
This is the exact reason necron lore annoys me. They have crazy tech, to the point they can trap, shatter and harness actual gods but couldn't bio engineer some new boieds for themselves better bodies
There is one field of science where even current humanity surpasses Necron. At least I believe so, otherwise C'tan wouldn't be able to trick the Necrons. That field is - genetics. If Necron could elevate their bodies to a level of say, a primarch, they wouldn't need C'tan, they wouldn't rage against the Old Ones. But they couldn't!
It was always going to be the Necrons. A more interesting comparison of technological scale is Dark Eldar and Necrons. Or maybe the Kin and Dark Eldar.
The necrons were the masters of the materium, the Eldar (thanks to the Old Ones) were masters of the immaterium. Mankind dabbled in both, overreached in both, and their galaxic empire declined twice as a consequence.
Let's face it, the Necrons were able to develop for multiple Eons even after defeating the Old Ones and they slept for another multiple Eons stagnating the development of their technologies, The Eldar also ended up like the Necrons Developing for many Eons and Stagnated after many more Eons. Mankind on the other hand had a short time to develop their technology for a couple of millennia and they achieved most of it out of the short time existing in the Galaxy, but in the end, they falter. Technological Level Wise I bet GAOT Humanity is fast approaching Necron Technological Level Peak, as both Factions have molecular weapons, blackhole and singularity power sources, Realspace FTL Drive Tech, and much more. GW, 1 of the most recent lore that retconned the Imperium role in the galaxy, was that they realized how massive the Galaxy both IRL and In-game really is and changed the IOM from a Galactic Empire with a Galaxy Wide Territory to 1 of the Major forces in the Milky Way Galaxy that controls half of the Orion Arm of the Galaxy, so the possibility of finding more GAOT Humans living their own prosperous lives is bigger than ever, I mean if the Tau could prosper in a small corner in the Orion Arm without clashing Chaos even though Chaos influence is Galactic Wide is the whole point of this Lore Retconned thing that GW always do to their story. If fans doubt my claims about the lore-retconned thing, then just ask the Femtudes for that matter.
Time also a factor when gauging these factions. While Necrons are superior, it took them millions of years to attain their level of achievement. Humanity just took 20,000 and were at the apex of their own understanding of technology without knowledge of the Warp for that matter. Given enough time, DAOT might just pass the necrons.
Execute me for heresy if you must lord inquisitor but is it not possible that the emperor of mankind is just a great old one taking advantage of or guiding humanity for its own purposes? Or something just as ancient?
So I've made a short for this and you can view it here: ruclips.net/user/shortsMPaVjFE8iAk?feature=shared But as a TLDR he did know of technologies during the dark age as he lived through it, but he wouldn't have known them all and couldn't re-create them for a few reasons. Whilst he's intelligent he doesn't know everything and as such could not re-create the tech he did not know of, so instead would have to kitbash other technologies to make something akin to it. The other reason is that he couldn't re-create them exactly the same as almost all that was known about them has been erased to time. Think of it like this, an apocalypse comes by tomorrow and all the factories that make phones and the instructions to build them are all destroyed. You know what a phone is and how to use them but could you re-create the phone exactly after this apocalypse? Probably not but you might be able to make something like them, it would just take time. That's kind of what the emperor had to deal with.
The lore says dark age tech rivaled that of the aeldars, but you see the aeldars were pretty shit with tech considering they got all that space magic to work with.
Massive mistake here. To say that Humanity mastered AI is wrong as the necrons themselves are AI thus all of their creations/weapons are also AI by extention. If an AI is smart enough to create a weapon that can snuff out stars then the weapon itself is by extention AI. The counter to this argument is if the Necron's today can't manufacture what they did in the past which so far we have not had confirmed. (at least to my knowledge)
I actually disagree. I think the Necron did better in blending AI with themselves than anything else. We just did not do better. I think it is a measure of Humanity could of but did not. Hence why others like Trazyn think we might be needed. The monkeighs needed to be blended with.
In one bookn and old ship with a ai said how it gladly called humans masters but they fallen from grace and no longer deserve that tittle like the men of irpn loved humans but they did ssomtjing wrong thus losing there respect
Tho Necrons have higher tech, they have been alive for over 60 millions years... How many years have the humans been alive and have the tech? Now sure even when Humans went into the golden age, and then into dark age. Id still say humans are doing pretty well... Tho i wont say Humans are having a good time. A new golden age would probalbly fix that.
Did humanity have a celestial zen garden that was a scale model of the galaxy? One that you could simple reach into, and with a gesture, send any star in realspace supernova somehow?
So humanity doesn't/didn't have what you're describing, the Necrons however do in the form of the Celestial Orrery. However, humanity did create devices that could destroy stars, just not to the extent of the Necrons. From the Occlusiad War: "The northwestern fringe is ravaged by the Apostles of the Blind King, rogue Tech-Priests who view humanity as an affront to the Machine God. The Apostles uncover artefacts lost in the Dark Age of Technology that allow the creation of supernovae from the hearts of living suns."
Did the Necrons invent general AI that could think vastly faster than any human brain and pair it with tech that allowed nanomachines to clear an entire planet of hostiles in "an eyeblink", or do they still to this day rely on plodding warriors and other slow constructs that fail to prevent tombworlds from getting destroyed by the likes of fallen Eldar and primitive humans?
The Necrons managed to retain their tech after millions of years and last that long, humans lost theirs after thousands, the Necrons were more advanced period.
Nah. Humanity lost their tech becasue the eldar fucked around too much (literally). They didn't have the time the necrons did to hone and perfect their technology.
Hm, Necron -> Eldar -> Humans -> Krork I'd say the human's where close to the Eldar. In some aspects like you pointed out Humans reign supreme. Human's research into super-being's such as the Emperor, Primarch etc and AI seem fairly unique. I still maintain the Emperor is Dark Age Tech. Nowhere else do shaman's (psykers) just conglomerate into a fused being. shit's weird. Humans making Emps would fit perfectly into their projects such as men of gold/stone/iron etc. he would just slot right in, especially considering Primarchs, Thunder Warriors, Marines, Primaris etc, which all seem part of the same lineage of tech. The lower you get the more mass-produced, the higher the more unique. Heck it might be that they fused psykers to get the emperor, but certainly not in pre-history.
Hey all! This was a question submitted on the discord (albeit a little while ago) so feel free to ask a question here or on the server and it may be made into a future video!
It's been a while and sorry about that life stuff and all. Anyway I'm coming back to making videos! This one may be a bit rough around the edges but I'm just trying to get back into the swing of things. Hope you enjoy it one none the less!
Glad to see you back man!
Could humanity use their stc AI to analyze and recreate necron technology kind of like how the tau do
Nop... Human peak of tech was much superior than necron.
2 things point to it. 1 Even necrons seek STCs. 2 The eldar, that was made to fight necrons, did not even engage with humans in their peak due to fear.
I think DAOT Humanity would be on par with the current state of the Necron. But, if you compare them with the War in Heaven Necron, their technological gap is just large.
To put it simply the Celestial Orrary was the only weapon allowed by the Silent King to remain and not be destroyed.
The celestial Orrary itself is currently the most powerful weapon in the setting, so imagine what weapons the Necrons were able to pull off during their prime.
The Ctans themselves had barely any power before the Necrontyrs gave them a form
*sneezes near the Orrary*
*half of all star systems evaporate*
@@doragonzx Didn't they casually munch on stars and planets before even ?
@@vestricaptiosus9861 yeah but they were more or less Ghaseous mass of star eating jellyfishes with barely any sentience. The Necrons gave them vessels that could proprely handle their power and as a result made them smarter and way more dangerous
Couldn't treat radiation poisoning or birth deformities.
Necrons actually banned the use of most AI, operating under similar limitations to the Imperium of Man (that is, if it's not a Necrontyr mind or a low level machine spirit - and they even call them machine spirits - it's not allowed). It gets mentioned in the Twice-Dead King novel series, Phaeron Oltyx is suspicious of the Cryptek Mentep for having a custom-made canoptek pet (Xott) which seems suspiciously sentient (and turns out, in the end, to be a backup of Mentep's own mind in a canoptek body).
Wait, machine spirits are an actual thing?
@@JoshBeck-z5m It's intentionally unclear. Like humans, Necrons have a semi-mystical view of technology (they see no difference between science and sorcery), so their canoptek intelligences (including and particularly the guiding intelligence of their tombs) are also "machine spirits" to most of them.
However, it is strongly suggested by other texts that that is how people who do not comprehend technology understand simple AI processes. But then additionally humans can actually do magic, so if a human is doing magic to an AI... that may also explain some Mechanicus things.
The uploader of this video didn't know shit
That's why rather than millions of years, it took humans a few thousand to have absurd, physics breaking tech. A self improving general AI would be almost godlike to even the most powerful organic brain, before you even finished asking it a question, it could predict what you were going to say and access all relevant data, and the societies that embraced it would have exponential technological growth. Combined with the essential immortality of the Necrons and Eldar in their prime, that could explain why DAoT machines could clear a planet of enemy forces "in an eyeblink", while the Necrons rely on plodding warriors which have repeatedly failed to prevent their tombworlds from being destroyed.
@@JoshBeck-z5m
I don't know how the Necrons define the term. But for humanity, machine spirits might be just superstition, or a low-level AI, or possibly warp/psychic influence.
Part of the problem is how much GW has changed its treatment of the DAOT over the years.
In the beginning, it wasn't so much that humanity had reached some apex of technological development that it will never return to, so much as the fact that technology was both ubquitous and well understood. Less a matter of "Every trooper was wearing artificier armour and rocking around with digital lascannons and reality-warping weapons", and more of a "Sergeant Jones has an auspex and at least a rough idea of how it works".
But GW exercises almost no editorial control over its authors, and when you have an evocative name like the Dark Age of Technology, it's inevitably going to get portrayed as though there was some apex of achievement, rather than a shift in understanding.
It does make it a lot more Grimdark though if you were basically had the potential for Culture like human civilizations and then are reduced to what 40K humanity is. It also makes sense considering that self-improving general AI would be capable of absolutely ridiculous thinking power in comparison to even the most enhanced organic brain, making exponential strides in technological understanding and how human societies that embraced it were organized.
How would the galaxy fare if the Imperium is replaced by DAoT Humanity in the current setting?
Good question! I've gone through scenario after scenario in my head and I almost wrote an entire essay, there is so much stuff that could happen that this may become a video. I can give you a brief rundown though!
Should this happen and assuming that the change is instant the galaxy would be faced with humanity at it's true potential once more. Depending on how diplomatic and understanding some of these factions may be they may ally themselves with humanity such as the Tau, they may not confederate but a mutual understanding could be met.
The borders would grow greater than that of the Imperiums even during the great crusade meaning that many species you may know would no longer be around.
There will still be areas that Humanity has to defend itself from as even during the dark age they struggled against the Orks, meaning in all likelihood they would still be an issue.
It would also be safe to assume that should the Tyranids or Necrons find themselves facing off against mankind then the situation wouldn't change too much from if they were to find them before the age of strife as their relative strength would be the same.
Seeing as the Imperium is holding off against these threats and considering how disjointed and un-organised they are, DAOT humanity should do fine to a degree, it just depends on how many Necrons re-awaken and how many Tyranid hive fleets appear in humanities borders.
Chaos would also have a greater dominance over them, during the DAOT there were not as many warp storms nor the great rift in the Galaxy. Therefore they may try to find other ways in which to navigate the Galaxy including possibly repairing the Golden Throne (Should the Emperor still be sat on it) and even provide the technological know how to re-create technology that the Mechanicus cannot.
These are just a few examples but there are a tonne of other things that could occur, I'll save it for the video though as this comment is getting waaaayyy too long! I'm sorry I can't give you more details here, but keep an eye out and I'll upload this once I've got the chance :)
DAoT humanity would absolutely CURBSTOMP the 40k galaxy... the only faction that really would be a major threat is the necrons because of their superior technology but outside of them the rest of the galaxy is fucked
@@HypospaceYT no, the Orks struggled against DAoT Humanity, the Orks had to sign non aggression pacts with Humanity during the Dark Age of Technology because of how powerful Humanity has become
@@justinianthegreat1444 pretty sure they didnt sign non aggression pacts the orks were simply nearly driven to extinction to the point where humanity didnt need to bother about fighting them anymore
@@HypospaceYT the Thing is DOAT humans seems to be less genocidal maniacs that current humanity
The thing with daot humanity tech is that it can do whatever the writer feels like at the moment.
A gun that not only kills you but makes it do you didnt exist and everyone forgets you did? Fits in a pistol.
Sure the necrons will probably always have the best tech as thats their role in the story, but every time a writer pulls something out of their ass humanity will end up being just a little closer to them.
Huge machine that eats chunks of worlds AND its reflection in warp. Mechanovore or something in audio from Abnett about Oll in past.
Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
@@notladnstuff7976 yeah the imperium of man is weak unlike their golden age
That sounds more like close to the Old Ones than the Necrons.
@@notladnstuff7976 You're missing his point. At any point, an author can just say, "Actually the Celesital Orrery was a time-traveling super weapon sent by DAoT Mankind to the past by the Emperor to safeguard it from the Horus Heresy because he'll need it in the future".
Now, the Celestial Orrery is a DAoT human invention.
DAOT humasnity tends to "cheat" by teching with both Warp tech and material realm tech, while Eldar and Necrons tend to have essentially capstoned their respective specialty. So comparing them doesn't always work out as you'd think.
But DAOT humanity was still a baby compared to the Eldar and Necrons. The length of time it took them to achieve that level of tech was an eye-blink compared to the amount of time the Eldar and Necrons had to develop. Also, just as the Heresy started, a Mechanicum Magos was on the cusp of gaining access to all knowledge in the universe. This would have elevated humans to the level of the C'Tan, or higher.
@@SarthorS but alas, he did not try the medicine drug that would have released all knowledge directly into his brain
@@cleanerben9636 This seems to be a recurring theme in 40k. Great opportunities lost or ultimate victory stolen right at the last. Even though I know how things will turn out, I'm still find myself hoping that they will succeed in the novels.
@@SarthorSbaby in age but way closer in strength than age
@@Chosen_Ash lol nah. The celestial orrery which can wipe out stars with the blink of an eye was the WEAKEST of the galactic weapons that the necrons had, as it was the only one that Szarekh allowed to be left and not destroyed.
If you were to compare the Big E pre throne and Szarekh, it's put into perspective how ridculously overpowered the necrons were.
The Big E (the most powerful single human that we know of to exist in the setting) canonically struggled when wrestling ONE SHARD of a ctan into the labrynths under Mars. Szarekh, who keep in mind has no innate special abilities like the emperor, had PERSONAL superweapons so powerful, that he soloed ALL the ctans and sharded them himself.
You also forget that the necrons defeated the Old Ones in the 2nd War in Heaven. The OLD ONES, who seeded most all life in the galaxy, and of whom the entire race are described to be akin to gods in power.
The war in heaven necrons would obliterate DAoT humanity.
But then you get narrations from pieces of lore like the recent Pariah Nexus, where the techpriests brought with them some techscraps from the Dark Age of Technology that gave the Necron a run for their money. When everyone started pulling out weapons of mass destruction, the techpriests used satelites with high intensity beams that could evaporate even top of the line Nekron ships, weapons that generate black holes to banish enemies from existance, nanobots capable of eating away Nekron armies and fleets and so on... You also have pretty old lore where is describe how weapons like the original titans from the Dark Age were exponentialy more powerful that even the most powerful Titan from the Horus Heresy or that people had access to power suits and weapons that can turn a normal human into something more deadly than an Astartes... so who knows for me Humanity from the Dark Age were pretty close if not at the level of Nekrons.
not to mention that DAoT mankind's guns that could erase the target's existence out of reality to have never existed was made in enough numbers that one or two managed to survive to the great crusade and still be used, though its never said what the guns where used for, instead of being locked in a vault for being to valuable to loose. hell, one of the time worm-snake machine that can black out stars by coiling around them alone would solo most of the factions
I think one example was that terminator armour was originally just reinforced armour for mining operations and is now the top level of personal protection the imperium can provide.
Okay, but counterpoint: without Vulcan, humanity would have lost to The Beast and even when they're not using "Dark Age" stuff, they still had weapons made by the Dark Mechanicus and stuff designed by Big E, which I assume would have been based off of DAoT stuff, sure, the resources and factories to produce DAoT stuff have disappeared, but Big E had the knowledge to make them.
And yet, despite that, they lost to The Beast and had to sacrifice a Primarch to beat him.
Also, Titans more powerful than the ones the Imperium currently uses don't mean anything when Krorkz were literal Knight sized so their Warbosses were presumably even larger than that.
And also, Krork had battle moons, not just Titans and yet the Necron managed to push them back every step of the way.
Cool. Necron goes to celestial orrery that the imperium does not even know exists and taps on Terra killing big e and cutting humanity off from warp travel. Big e gets ressurected but all of humanity is cut off from themselves and are eaten piecemeal by the rest of the galaxy. Boom necrons win by using their weakest super weapon while DAOT humanity has its strongest stuff too. The only way to win is plot otherwise since humanity can't stop the celestial orrery they win everytime.
@@notladnstuff7976 the Necrons are way to divided and tribal at this point without the silent king to be able to act on anything like that involving the orrery, especially if its just one random dynasty thats getting smacked by the imperium
One of the Necron Crown worlds was built in and resides within the heart of a sun, a feat that has never(as far as we know) and curently cannot be matched by any other race in 40k. It is utterly impossible to access said crown world from the outside without the use of the dolemon gates. I think this alone gives a fairly good representation of their power.
That being said there are texts that make the claim that humanity during the DAOT even surpassed the Eldar in their prime who were themselves supposed to be comparable to the Necrons.
I think the real answer as I've discovered over my decades of being a 40k fan is that Games Workshop has very inconsistent lore that they can, have and will discard or rewrite at any given moment, so it's best not to get too worked up about it.
personally i dont think the DAOT beat the eldar when we are talking about timeframe both empires existed at the same time and where at somewhat of a cold war neither really wanted to destory the other and the eldars empire was much larger the eldar at their peak i would say durning the war in heaven as you had all kinds of crazy shit going on. daot where in a realitively peaceful galaxy and the eldar where basically becoming extremely degenerate so their empire was degrading tbh
DAOT humans were able to make the eldar sigh a none aggression treaty now these were not the WIH eldar but still fairly peak
not realy that were the Orks but that's only because just like the TAU they weren't really fun to fight against.
And no humanity and the Aldari were never really interested in each other, because the Elder didn't really see us as worth there time especially since they mostly resided in the galactic core where there core worlds and there main web way gates resided which might as well be an entire pockey universe all on its own before it became the eye of Terra.
They were exclusively relegated to the web way while humanity was exliusive to the warp sl they really didn't care that much about each other.
And no there opinions on humanity at there prime though slightly higher than humanity it was all but the same as they so humanities rise as a short period of grace that will die in a couple thousand years. They believed humanities own technological might and AI constructs would be there down fall.
At least the Eldars constructs were controlled by there gods and AI just being artificial souls that were tied to the Aldari species itself since all Elder and there technological (which was warp based to gurentee better user interference) were psychicly connected in some weird hippie dipie psychic net gureenting there wraith constructs never rebeld .
What did humanity have to temper there technology? There own words and the hollow sense of control to keep there constructs who they had given sentients placated hoping they would keep listening to them.
Heres an exerpt from the book wrealth flight
*" Iyanna had seen examples of artifice from many human cultures. At the height of their art, humanity had made ugly things, and in this age of the Corpse-Emperor they were far from their height. Their ships were an offence to the eye."*
*Wraithflight*
In other wards there opinions were more or less the same as they just saw us upstarts who would flicker and die like the millions of Empires that came before them during the Aedlaris 60 million years or reign. And they weren't wrong less than 9 thousand yeard of our golden age and when we tally the age of pure collective human civilization less than 30 thousand years and our enrure civilization collapsed on us over night.
We essentially created outright God's thinking we could control them, the Aeldari were subservient to there gods not the other way around.
Especially since there's a lot evidence most of mankind's warp based technologies and even there self healing constructs were based of ancient Aeldari technology due to how similar most of there tech was interns of function and how they always ended up filling a similar role as Aeldari tech.
And not to mention the Elder were so powerful the silent king retreated and put the entire necron race to sleep just so they could wait them out. To be fair this was when the Aeldari had there God's anf when tge necrons were weekend from shattering tge Ctan but still those are massive shoes to fill and all it takes is DAOT humanity delaying there daily shipment of Aphrodisiacs and dildos by destroying one of there core worlds and it would be GGs for mankind.
@@CopeSeethorntin i wouldnt say the silent king was afraid of the rising eldar but we have to look at it as you said they just shattered their gods, and they jsut got done fighting was was them vs the old ones, eldar, korks, the organgatan looking aliens, and a few others the old ones made.
the silent king made them go to sleep so they can come back to a galacy where the eldar where much easier to deal with and to also recoperate their strenght while he and his army went into the void fighting tons of tyranids before he returned.
peak necrons would still beat peak eldar
DAoT mankind did built that snake machine thingy that can black out stars by coiling around them and fuck with time a little if I remember correctly
As someone who's spent the last 30 odd years delving into the lore of this universe I can say without doubt;
There is No good answer to this question, there is No good answer to basically Any question in Warhammer, with the sole exception of, Wanna have a narrative campaign?
There's that story about a DAOT ship that got lost into the warp but found its way out in the current setting.
And for the few power demonstrations it made, I don't think we were far behind on the scale. Especially if eldari respected humanity back then.
I guess the only real difference is that we still have no idea how Necrons FTL travel works, but they clearly mastered it way more that humanity did during the DAOT.
Humanity also made the ai that can guide ships in the warp and can phase ships form one period to another to destroy them tbh we just don’t know but I feel ancient humanity would dominate necrons since the current still fairs pretty week regardless of necrons are only semi activated
Look at it this way, Necron are master at physical tech but little to none on the warp tech. Eldar are a counter to Necrons so they are master at warp tech but behind them in physical tech. Humanity in the DAOT, in my opinion, is not the equal in either of the category to the Necron or Eldar but they got a good mix of both as evidence with the Golden throne and the STC
Celestial orrery.
@@noctier9385 Yeah lmao, if necrons feel they're in danger they'll just blow up all your star systems
@@dean_l33 Golden Throne is Eldar tech, not DaoT toys
@@ВалентинТерентьев-п4р Where did it says that? I thought big E just found it sitting there in China
The greatest part where even today's humanity overshadows the necrons:
Healthcare.
????? how do our present-day snakeoil peddlers compare to a free new body upon expiry ?????
@@ditmarvanbelle1061having an actual flesh body with a soul
Yeah somehow the necrons never give anything on health science while humanity during the dark age of technology wipeout virtually every disease and made themselves functionally immortal and can dabble on warp shenanigans with tech
I’d like to add that it is in general hard to compare the technology of “the” three races because they are mutually alien. The Necron’s technology is purely real space based, them having worshipped and depended upon C’Tan, who despise the warp. The Aeldari’s is very nearly warp based, them being a psyker species. Humans? Well humans is sort of a combination of both. They’re kind of the middle, the mean of Eldar and Necron.
The Necrons had a source of energy humans had not, the Ctan. In theory, they would be equal or inferior to humans, if the Ctan were not allowing them to fuel technologies humans had only in theoretical exercises, because there was no source of energy to test the theories.
They were actually super-advanced before the C'tan found them, they just amped them up with more advanced tech and ideas from the C'tan, especially the Void Dragon.
Yip, crons were super advanced. They had been dicked into early deaths because the deceiver had set up shop on their sun and caused them all sorts of problems(deliberately some would say, as he saw the fun times ahead).
They had the tech just not the life spans to utilise it for its ultimate ends. Like living metal, this was a necrontier technology that the ctan souped up for them.
Dark age of tech scout ship deleted a space marine strike fleet. One shoting each ship. DAoT and Neocons are at a level were war is just stupid. Both sides lose.
The reason the Emperor didn't do anything in DAOT is simple: he was not around forever. He is one of the Men of Gold. Why is he the only one? They all perished fighting the men of iron but he's a perpetual and regenerated. This explains his recent appearance and surprising ignorance.
I like this better than having him be Jesus
That's my theory as well.
The Emperor being an artificial being a MoG or whatever fits in nicely with the whole theme of human's making artificial beings like men of gold/stone/iron and then the more modern Thunder Warriors, Primarchs, Marine, Primaris etc.
Would also explain why there's an existing lab working on such being's and why the golden throne is a thing.
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I'm calling the inquisition
No chance the men of gold were all emperor level beings and managed to end up dying in a war that barely got any attention from the rest of the galaxy.
Tbf Chaos does say he stole their power for the making of the 20, fully possible dude managed to find a way to steal some of their powers and become powerfull enougg to rival them @@mryellow6918
I've heard a story, but don't know a source for it, that an ancient Imperium supply ship got jumped by the Dark Eldar at one point. And they were losing. Badly. Then some ancient, long forgotten AI protocol deep in the core of the ship woke up, activated an ancient super-weapon, and fired something at the Eldar ship that, just by clipping the ship, caused a chunk of the ship to MERGE WITH IT'S OWN FUTURE SELF, causing instant nuclear fusion. The AI then went back to sleep and the weapon vanished, leaving the Dark Eldar to limp away.
At least according to THIS story, DAOT Humanity had at least breached the openings of time travel, and had WEAPONIZED it.
The Necrons have a much better understanding of temporal physics though, with their Cryptek Chronomancers being able to routinely and casually use time travel to effectively savescum failed battles and scenarios until they get it right. There are multiple examples of Orikan doing this, such as attacking a Space marine homeworlds way before a battle that they would originally intervene in and ruin his plans for, and to change a tomb worlds that was unawakened during an imminent invasion into one that was fully awakened and prepared for the battle. Granted, there are few examples outside of Orikan himself doing this in the modern era, but given that most of the Necrons are still asleep, unorganized and disunited, this would have been much more common during the War in Heaven when ALL of the Necrons had their shit together.
Let's just say Ctan can't be destroyed permanently but The Necron have weapon that can destroy Ctan permanently with Consequences
Flayed One?
@@user-ki6ch5tw2d yeah pretty he got annihilated
DAOT humans have implied to have used Ctan also as an energy source.
The mysterious dragon in Mars and etc. And they have nanotech that ate through Necron living metal(cmiiw necrodermis?) body, giving them true death. They also used to bend time and space to teleport, nanoworms that eats stars and space, and blackhole bombs, and buttfck the dreaded final and true form of orks that theywrre deemed as a pest rather than an existential threat.
That's all well and good for the Necrons, but humanity has sun-cream.
Imagsine committing mass genocide because these people won’t tell you about sunscreen
Its a neat video, but you do miss out on the parts where DAOT humanity surpasses the Necrons, even at their zenit. For instance, DAOT humanity had a comparable mastery of the physical universe, but arguably better material control of matter. While Necrons have living metal, which is VERY usable and pliable, DAOT humanity created what is basically molecular inert matter - Adamantium for instance is harder than anything the Necrons ever produced, as is the auric-adamantium alloy which even surpasses that, if not in durability, so in durability to mass ratio. Sure, one could just say that Necrons never needed such matter - but they also never created it. While Necrons clearly surpass humanity in chronomancy, DAOT clearly surpasses the Necrons/Necrotyr in biomancy. (Genetic manipulation) as the Necrontyr never even figured out how to break their genetic flaws - while DAOT humanity was creating entire subspecies at a whim. (The Emperor MIGHT have had a finger in this, seeing as how he and Arda were the supreme gene-crafters even after the fall, and lived during the DAOT.) From what I have read up over the decades of being a lore nerd, I'd say Necrons are better at certain specialized fields, but humanity during the DAOT are very close in these fields - while DAOT are complete masters in others that Necrons never really became good at. Take Warp-based tech for instance. Necrons are really bad at it. As in, their Dolmen gates are a dead end tech that just brute forces the Web Way - and they cannot travel through the warp. They don't have access to it, understand it, have geller fields and so on. While humanity, both DAOT and current 40K Imperium, are far better at it. People usually shit on humanity even in the Imperial age in regards to tech, but NO OTHER FACTION even gets close to the left overs of DAOT like Void Shields or Teleportation. No xenos faction even HAS Void Shields.
Its hard to measure different techs from what little we know. But DAOT humanity was a kind of generalist know how that came close but never surpassed Necrons in several lines of tech - but massively surpassed them in others. One should also note that DAOT humanity got to that level in a short amount of time - about 220 000 years. While it took the Necrons several million years (possibly 20-30 million years even, War in the Heavens is a very complicated topic that has changed since we started hearing about it some odd 20+ years ago).
Oh I absolutely agree with you that humanity had more of a generalised production when it came to their tech, which would as you say make them more advanced in certain areas like warp and medical/biological based tech, I should've gone into more detail here. For warp based tech it makes sense as the immaterium wasn't as chaotic until the war in heaven, for medical based science they were unable to cure themselves of the main reason they sought immortality so it would make sense that humanity would have the better edge in this area as well
There was a quote from an author (I believe) that I really wanted to include that kind of sums up what you have said, but I could not find it anywhere unfortunately. It went something along the lines of "The Necrons had reached the peak of scientific discovery, humanity had just reached its peak" Now as I say I could not find this quote so it may not be accurate or even real, but I still feel it applies and also makes sense.
The way I view it personally is the Necrons reached an absolute understanding of material universe, humanity a generalised (but still advanced) understanding of all the sciences and the Aeldari an absolute understanding of warp based tech. Each of these factions have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to their technology, it's just that some are better at understanding and creating technology when compared to others.
Alot of what you have stated is chalked up to the necrontyr's inherent weakness - the lack of a soul or connection to the warp in their race. The necrontyr were definitely still backward during the first war in heaven when the old ones slapped them back to their home planet - the old ones had access to their webway and warp powers whilst the necrontyr were still operating with sub-light travel. Instead of solving their genetic issues, they discovered the c'tan, which I would say fundamentally changed their direction in technology. Biotransferrance and the lack of any meaningful warp powers meant that they didn't need to work on genetic manipulation like DOAT humanity; but experiments by Illuminator Szeras and the quest of Szarekh to reverse biotransferrance tells me the necrons are slowly on their way to making DOAT leaps of genetic discovery. As for specialisation, their "warpless" nature (and general hatred of the warp) alongside c'tan guidance means that necrons will always end up being the most advanced race in terms of raw knowledge on physics.
Even in terms of the warp, they managed to find a way to suppress it much better than arguably any race ever did via the pylons- the eldar have only managed to hide in the webway and we have seen that to not always be perfect (i.e. Magnus' Great Oopsy). Hell, the necrons had to close the eye of terror which the Old Ones had accidently opened during the War in Heaven. DOAT humanity's specialisation in AI could be argued to not be perfect, as they had to tap in with xenos help to defeat the Men of Iron. Even if we gave a hypothetic of DOAT humanity vs necrons, c'tan just unfortunately make it an unfair fight, as they are beings representing core fundamentals of reality. Sure DOAT humanity could develop more advanced material and genetic tampering, but when you are fighting a race which has explored dimensions other than the warp, it starts to look like an Old One vs Necron scenario. Teleportation and tech like the Pharos device compete more than comfortably with the webway.
Nobody really won the War in Heaven, but considering the necrons were making breaches in the webway I'd say the only reason the eldar survived was because Szarekh decided to pokemon the c'tan. And the necrons still stand today as the most advanced race despite arguably losing their primary source of knowledge in the c'tan. DOAT humanity wouldnt be able to reach necron knowledge without guidance from something like the C'tan. They would still be hanging on warp based tech which would undoubtedly bite them in the ass when Chaos comes knocking.
This is really imperium biased. That assumes because the necrons don't uses something they don't have it or suck at it. Firstly who says the necrons have never developed auramite. Just becuae they don't use it doesn't mean they can't make it. Consider that firstly auramite like adamantium isn't indestructible. While necrodermis might be physically weaker its benefits of regeneration may compensate so much that necrons chose that over it. Moreover, we do know black stone is a relatively comparable material being described as "nigh indestructible". Again just because the necrons don't use something doesn't mean they don't have it. Necrons have their own for of quantum sheildi g that surpasses void sheild in many aspects. Orcs have their own form of void sheild as well. The reason that necrons don't use void shields is because they are warp based tech. Think about it this way. What point is their in developing warp based shielding when your opponents are literally warp gods. A void sheild vs an old one is like covering your tank in paper. We know the necrons had more advanced warp tech in areas that were relevant to then eg black stone pylons. Doat humans definitely didn't have these.
Lastly, the necrons have the most access to teleportation of any faction in 40k. It's actually ridiculous. Literally every necron warrior teleports back to base when they fall in battle. This isn't counting necrons just teleporting into battle randomly. Not only that it's important to remember they do this WITHOUT the warp. Imperium teleportation is warp reliant while necrons is just plain old physics.
Other then bio engineering and maybe warp stuff there isn't anything doat did better then the necrons. But at least In the case of warp craft we know the eldar were better then doat and the necrons had a whole galaxy shattering war with them.
now sure how you think humans are very close to necrons in chronomancy.
"molecular inert matter"...not sure what are you even saying...those words...don't mean much.
Argon is inert. If something is inert, its not going to be solid.
Necrons never "created it"? Necrons created way better material than Auramic etc. All crypteks have "materials" made of whatever they specialised in(though i would extend the same treatment as..."those words don't make sense" to these but anyway..)
So a necron that specialises in space manipulation, has a material made of space, if it makes sense(but hey writers are art majors)
DAoT were never close to necrons in what the necrons were good at.
Great summary of necron and DAOT lore, I see decades of lore nerding in your words and your amazing mod for BFG2. Are you planning to expand Skalgrim mod?
Here's a great vs match though: Halo Forerunners vs Necrons. Those books detail some crazy shit like harvesting alternate universes for energy and building an entire dyson sphere as a blue-collar worker job
Another great video. Well done fella 👍
DAoT humanity may have been as advanced as necrons in a few fields, but also SORELY lagging behind in others. if humanity was able to make any equivalent to the celestial orrery or a world engine, there would be traces or mentions of it, and likewise necron pylons show that even in the realm of warp mastery, or at least containing the warp, the necrons were never matched by the Imperium (as if any such tech existed, big E would have spammed the HELL out of them in his war against chaos)
also necron AIs are actually fairly advanced, filled with uncountable number of protocols to handle every situation on their own, especially when it comes to things like canoptek spyders that are tasked with defending and maintaining tomb worlds on their own while no necron is currently awake, and thts before considering machined like serapteks or monoliths that are fully automated war machines, which implies a high level of independance to adapt to changing battlefield conditions as well as to interpret and execute orders correctly. In that regard, the necrons do put the Tau drones to shame, but yeah unlike the imperium, they never tried to achieve sentience for their AIs, which may be why their AIs are safe and do not rebel barring bugs in their programming.
Necron AI's arent super intelligences
@@honkhonk8009 like I said, they arent sentient and have a limited programing.. but said programming is so through they might as well be as VERY few situations arent accounted in, and canoptek spyders alone are proof enough of that, having been able to maintain necron tombs through the entire great sleep (millions, if not billions of years, and basically everything that can happen will happen in such a long time period) without ANY oversight whatsoever. Thats some insane achievement
@@thorveim1174 Sounds very labour intensive to make. Lowkey kinda makes them seem shit tier
@@honkhonk8009 but at the same time, no sentience has its perks... Like, say, no risk of any AI revolt to begin with and complete obedience, which is a MASSIVE perks when chaos exists. Also we dont know how that programming is made, but even if its very labor-intensive, necrons would likely just see it as a valid way to pass the time since they have eternity ahead of themselves (we are talking about a race that sees nothing wrong with making and attending to year long uninterrupted stage plays after all or sitting motionless for days thinking about a single topic)
And having such a comprehensive programming fit into anything smaller than an entire server room is already an achievement by today's standards, and they did it in a way that can keep on functioning for eons without any maintenance needed by an outside operator. Hell again the spyders themselves have programming through enough that they ARE the maintenance operators for other necron constructs as well as ordering them around, and if a task is too complex for a spyder, it will network with others to combine their problem-solving capabilities. All of that added up is FAR beyond anything we could dream to make irl, and in-universe, its way better than Tau drones that only handle relatively simple tasks and always have an operator they are linked to nearby, having no independance whatsoever. Only yhe men of iron were better AI wise (and maybe some stuff from the Votann), and they were so much better... That they had to be destroyed for it, which removes a lot of the achievement
"Emperor was still learning part" is a bit far fetched, he was laser focused on being the ruler/messiah figure of mankind.
Dark Age tech is only as powerful as the story needs it to be... HOWEVER, I would put forward that it is still inferior to Necron tech, *especially* at the Necrons' prime. I'm a big fan of Admech, but it logistically makes little sense for Dark Age tech to even reach Necron levels, let alone surpass them. It's simply not supported by the evidence we have: Imperial and Mechanicus relics, tech the Votann have managed to preserve, and the Van Saar gang's time skip.
Even the Speranza, a ship on a power level never seen before or since in the Imperium, which had a gun with the capabilities to phase its target out of sync with time in order to collide with *itself* a fraction of a second in the future, whose mere firing spawns a black hole... even that pales in comparison to the Orrery, which is explicitly a piece of tech that was deemed "not dangerous enough" to be dismantled after the War in Heaven.
If I had to hazard a guess, *true* Dark Age humans, with the full access to their technology and industry of the time, would curb stomp any faction in the modern setting, though Necrons and Tyranids *may* give them trouble. I'd put Dark Age humans at *below* the power level of the Aeldar during the same time period, however. Comparing their tech is difficult, because of how magical Aeldari tech is, but the capabilities of the Prime Aeldar Empire are simply incomprehensible.
It is likely, however, that the two empires maintained at least some form of lasting truce, as a war with Prime Aeldari would turn the Cybernetic Revolt into a footnote in history. Given the Craftworlds' initial role as trading ships -- combined with the lack of necessity for such vessels, in a society with a fully functional Webway -- it is likely that the Aeldari traded with the Dark Age humans. Very possibly, this is where the technological similarities between the modern Craftworlds and the Imperium come from.
The Speranza and Orrery are two incomparable things though, one is a tactically useful weapon and one is a WMD that can't realistically be used in most circumstances... like comparing an F-22 raptor to a Soviet era nuke. Saying the later is more advanced because it is more powerful is silly.
The Necrons despite all of their genius were still limited by organic minds just like the Eldar since they refused to adopt AI past limited forms. A self improving, general purpose AI connected to all of your culture's knowledge is incomprehensibly superior than any organic brain. There was an AI expert who said something like "imagine asking it a question related to a scientific research topic, and before you've even completed your sentence it has already accessed the entirety of all research ever done on the topic, as well as any related field and prepared an answer".
This is why Oll describes machines fighting each other in the Cybernetic revolt and called it "incomprehensible to the human mind" compared to the "small thing" that was the Horus Heresy... and this was a guy whose seen primarchs and even the Emperor in action. When nanomachines can clear an entire planet "in an eyeblink", you're dealing with tactically superior tech that makes the plodding warriors of the Necrons, or basically all conventional warfare like we think of it, obsolete.
@TheChiconspiracy You're aware that much of the Necrons' tech was made in cooperation with eldritch god-beings tied intrinsically to the laws of the universe... right? Our AI, while utterly apocalyptic to *us*, was cute by comparison.
The Necrons, in order to defeat the C'tan, utilized weapons that broke *causality*. The reason I mentioned the Orrery was to demonstrate the roughly lower end of Necron superweapons, vs the highest end of humans' (specifically *humans*, not Men of Iron). It was me trying to give humans a look in the best light I could possibly give.
Your comparison of the Speranza/Orrery vs F-22/Old Nuke is stilted, because it pre-supposes a simplicity of design for the latter in both pairings. Which, while untrue, is also a complete red herring to the topic at hand.
Besides, if you're gonna go on the "generally applicable" tangent, aside from just reading the lore we have available for both societies at their prime... shouldn't *you* be comparing like to like? Such as the creation of reliable FTL technology that isn't interfered with by metaphysical space storms.
@@secutorprimus Did those C'tan give then Necrons the ability to clear a planet of hostile forces "in an eyeblink" like the DAoT machines could? The fact that slow and plodding Necron warriors are (and were, considering they went to sleep with a bunch of them millions of years ago) relevant to their military strategy suggests otherwise... pathetically slow infantry that have failed repeatedly to stop other pathetically slow infantry from infiltrating and destroying their tombworlds and space stations.
@@TheChiconspiracy Based on what we know of the tech at the height of the War in Heaven... yeah, that's not an issue. Do you know what "break the law of causality" implies?
If you want to compare the "slow and plodding necrons", their degenerated state, then we can only compare them directly to the modern Imperium. If we're comparing DAoT stuff, then we discuss War in Heaven Necrons (which, again, you bring up Men of Iron stuff, which is an invalid comparison)
Listen, I love the DAoT lore, and the admech's obsession with it. But you're gonna have to learn a bit more about the setting, I think, to have this discussion.
@@secutorprimus You are genuinely retarded while you are right the necrons at their peak are more powerful then DAOT humanity your arguments are so terrible it's hilarious that while the other guy is wrong he is winning the argument.
I think that DAOT might have been able to reach Necron heights....if the AI war didn't happen. In the hypothetical timeline where DAOT humanity isn't destroyed and keeps improving, by 40K they would be approaching, but not at, War in Heavens Necrons. The main issue is that Necron's have a significant understanding of the warp that DAOT doesn't have, at least their pylon tech shows that they can completely shut it down. Further the C'tan were not only their tormentors but also great research subjects that DAOT doesn't have access to.
How do you think the Necrons would react to technology of the Time Lords, the Xeelee, and the Great Houses of Faction Paradox?
Time lords depends on the episoide doctor who is wildly inconsistent even compared to 40k so they range from completely one sided stomp to utter joke.
The Xeelee are leagues above the Necrons having achieved complete mastery over the physical universe including time. I'd imagine the Xeelee would just ignore the necrons and stay focused on delaying the birds whose nesting habits will end the universe early. If the Necrons get really annoying maybe a lone Xeelee beats them down or they make a slight alteration in history so the Necrons are either friendly or just never advance to become space faring.
No idea on the on the last one.
@@vonfaustien3957
I was thinking how the Necrons would react to all the stuff they had and how astronomically more capable and powerful they are from them even with all their C'Tan superweapons.
For Doctor Who I will not be counting the show due to the abomination it became. I would stick with the narratives where in the EU the Glory exists and the multiversal cosmic being known as the Qauntum Archangel.
Faction Paradox is a series that has off shoot from the Doctor Who series as it's separate genre. It is very similar to the properties of the Doctor Who cosmology with time travel and multiversal beings though it is more dark fantasy aspects in it then Doctor Who normally does. It has multiversal creatures which create universes like bubbles just by swimming around called the Leviathans massive cosmic beasts of ridiculous size they are millions of time bigger then a 100 billion light year in diameter universe. The Great Houses are alot like the Time Lords though a bit more dark and indifferent.
I heard how Faction Paradox can fight with the Xeelee and keep up as a proactive challenge.
One thing the DAoT did that wasn't surpassed by the Necrons was the Sperenza. Spoilers for Forges of Mars ahead, btw. The AI that inhabited it was apparently omniscient. And at the very least it was completely unbothered by the attempt of an hereteck to hack it while that tech-priest was empowered/possessed by a shard of the void dragon.
@@Nat-ri3ip Necrons didn't need A.I since they had the Ctan, beings of countless shards/souls, but if they did need A.I, the Necrontyr had the capacity to do it since Ctan, at first, were literally just unthinking jellyfish who only knew how to eat.
The body Necrons gave the Ctan allowed them to think like any other A.I would.
@@pessien8474 None of the reached omniscience tho (except Orikan maybe ?), which this AI did. They can't think quite like it.
@@Nat-ri3ip No, Orikan realized that he literally couldn't handle the kind of omniscient mindset Ctan have, that's why he went insane in the first place, because a normal Ctan has a perfect understanding of the universe.
I don't know why people keep comparing Necrons with DAoT. Their technology aren't even similar.
If anything, DAoT seem more similar to Dark Eldar tech, than Necrons.
Generally, Necrons are considered the best, so DAoT/DE got nothing on them, but the stuff the Necrons don't do well, DAoT seem alright...as well as....the Dark Eldar.
I'm no expert, but isn't the current idea that the Necrons, Humanity, and Aeldari were on different technological trajectories in their prime? Necrons were all in on the materium. Eldar were focused on psychic tech. (Not that, in terms of physics and such, they weren't way more advanced than present day humanity, but I mean their ultimate super focus was more on the psychic side of tech), while Humanity was more in between, more on a trajectory in between, more of a merging of psychic and material tech? (Well, at least before everything went poopy)
So, as I understand it, humanity would have never matched the pure material physics tech of the necrons because humanity was going in a different direction, and would have achieved different things. (At least that's my understanding of the current semi official view, that comparing the three is tough because all three were going in different directions)
You are right. Necrons never went into psyk tech becasue they are all dead. Eldar never went into physics tech much becasue they had the warp. Humanity is indeed inbetween.
DAoT humans given enough time(millions of years), could easily have surpassed both the Necrons and Eldar, as instead of being specalists in one field, they were generalists that were fluent in both worlds, Unfortunatly, the knife ear "sax" cults destroyed that possibility trough their "shenanigans" :p
Also the fact their tech is evidently is a mix of real space and warp tech basically they can leway some technical difficulties by using warp bs
Weren't the Eldars still the dominant power in the galaxy during the Dark Age of Technology? How powerful was humanity if they were still beneath the notice of Eldars?
Pretty sure they had a none aggression pact. So DAOT wasn't beneath the Eldar and both were comparable enough to each other that both sides avoided open conflict
Re: C'tan, you overlooked the fact that humanity does, in fact, have one: the Void Dragon/Dragon of Mars, master of technology. And it's not only been there since before the Necron rewrite had the C'tan retconned into shards, but even post-sharding it's big and powerful enough for the Necrons to throw a World Engine at the heart of the Imperium. As such, we have to assume a degree of parity in that regard--in which case we only have the question of time, with humanity being only a few tens of thousands of years old at its height.
There was written somewhere, that Eldar during DAoT have won battle against humanity. Maybe its just eldar lies, but would be interesting to explore how modern Eldar tech can be compared to DAoT humanity and how Eldar tech changed since DAoT.
It was from a stupid Eldar wank story where a tiny handful of Harlequins also massacred dozens of custodes like they were Soviet conscripts in an 80s action movie.
2:25 trazyn said that he was reasonably sure that the golden throne was necron tech
Fun fact one of the remaining Q'Tan is pretty much the main reason for the mechanicus existence. This kind of leads me to believe that the current tech in the imperium is infant necron tech, so given enough time humans could catch up or perhaps surpass the necrons. Only if humans stopped being superstitious as they currently are in 40k
I’m awaiting for the moment that the anti virus software gets turned off and the void dragon ctan takes control.
The biggest difference is self general purpose AI, which neither the Necrons or Eldar embraced. That's the reason that the cybernetic revolt was impossible to understand for a human mind currently witnessing the Horus Heresy, a guy who knew the emperor and had seen him in action. When you have something that can access all information and make decisions before even an enhanced organic brain's neurons start to fire, you're going to have absurd gains in basically everything that you can think of, from military tactics and scientific research to how society is organized.
It results in machine supercomputers that can casually thwart the future sight of Farseers and the ability to clear a planet of hostiles "in an eyeblink" with tiny drones... they simply think and react far too fast for any organic brain to deal with. The fact that the Necrons actually rely on plodding warriors for defense (which have failed multiple times to stop even the fallen eldar and primitive 40k humans from destroying ancient tombworlds and constructs) shows that they may have been more advanced in many ways than humans were (especially WMDs) but their tactical prowess was severely lacking.
Basically humans are lazy enough to create the perfect and highly efficient servant that can bite them in the ass
They still must have been lightyears away, or else all those necron crypts would not still be intact
I believe a little recent book series both the necrons and the imperium finds an old human automated defense platform and neither one could get even close to it cuz it keeps gunning them down.
This video's missing bits from recent books. There's human designed webway gates in the recent cawl vs bile book that were useable. The recent campaign book for the pariah nexus has the necrons throwing their super weapons at super weapons from the vaults of mars leading to a stalemate.
Additionally something that should be taken in more ought to be adrathic weaponry that was probably closer to their later standards that straight up stops atoms from binding with eachother or vortex weaponry humanity made with either no psykers or stupidly weaker psykers than the ones in the current human genepool. Also the votann melee weapons which straight up disable the ability of mechanical or biological things to function
The philosophy in tech seems to be different and kinda barely comparable. The necrons abuse physics while humans from the few looks at the age of tech seem to try and break physics in one way or another.
But the pariah nexus stalemate I think is the most definitive proof they're at least comparable since both factions rn are using the scraps of their old super weapons and are at a standstill
well tbf, other factions in 40K had like millions of years of times to grow while humanity only managed to achieve some semblance of technology around a few thousand years ago. given enough time we would probably ascend into a pure energy based life form or something
Im gonna say they were pretty even, my logic says above them but i feel like that shouldn't be. My reasoning is, we know eldar at this time respected and maybe a war feared humanity and helped with the men of iron because of how much of a threat they were(got no source for this one, probably read somewhere but idk how reliable). These same eldar fought peak necrons and current necrons consider them worthy rivals. Eldar had their gods, necrons had c'tan, they even out without them. So therefore, humans that are respected by these eldars should at least be in a range were the necrons respect them too. This doesn't mean they were more technologically advanced, just that they were a worthy threat but that should imply their technology is not a joke in this context. So i would take my chances.... before finishing the video!
Wanna add to this, not sure when trazyn woke up, but if I remember correctly he saw the birth of slaneesh and probably saw golden humanity. He's impressed by then buy still considers them inferior, could be necron pride, maybe it's true, maybe he just didn't observe enough. Source for this is... the infinite and the divine, or the fall of cadia stuff I forgot when does he thinks this, pretty sure he was thinking to himself though
@@mahe7744Celestial orrery blows up Terra and humanity is cut off from warp travel since there is no guiding light. Can't defend against it since the imperium doesn't know about it or where it's at. Also if somehow big e blocks it becuase of plot (simply cannot be any other reason) and found the celestial orrery the necrons just have to supernova enough stars to blow up the milky way for mutal annihilation. So DAOT cannot beat necrons. Celestial orrery was also the necrons weakest super weapon from their prime.
@@notladnstuff7976 ur very out of the conversation here. This is golden age humanity. There's no big e or astronomicon.
How much Candle wax does the Imperium use? Like if i were a invester in 40k would candle production be a thing?
The answer is much more radical to put simply. Necrons, Eldar, and Daot have their own tech trees.
For example, during the height of their power Necrons created technology that currently the Silent King made them forget. Breath of the Gods is the prime example. It was clear in the book, it capable of erasing timelines if missused, so erasing multiverse.
And arguably breath of the gods is one among countless tech that the silent King makes the forgot. And speaking of tech, in current setting, Silent king with his dynasty, built the entire dyson sphere and arranging multiple solar system in a span of 4 years. Yet, humanity also possessed their own unique tech that the necrons are incapable to replicate.
(Note: people said omniphages could destroy necrons, but the necrons have their own version and more advanced. Necrons could literally eat the entire planet and built fleets with it in spans of hours)
And we are not speaking about their pops, in the Infinite and the Divine, Necron Infinite Empire's territory was in the billions of planets at the end of the war in heaven. During the peak it would be most likely more.
And remember, we are speaking necrons that rivalled old ones, Eldar, and Krorks back then. And in current eldar, with a half of dozen of Craftworld, they are capable performing ritual that destroyed hundreds of stars.
Personally, Daot are no match for any War in heaven factions. Heck, humanity got beaten by the Eldar back in the Daot era.
I think the DAoT is closer to the Battletech universe. Given that the dark age of GW they are known to liberate lore from other franchises, it's very playsible.
I would say they were pretty close. The Necron's current most advanced piece of equipment from their heyday is the Celestial Orrery, a live star map that can maniplate reality, and it's so powerful and protected that the Dynasty that takes care of it stays NEUTRAL in the war against all other life the rest of the Necron race seems to happily commit to, and will permenently ban any Dynasty that uses the map for their own end if they are ever given the honor of seeing it.
Dark Age Humanity had the Ontologial Gun, a retrocausal erasal gun. A Retroactive Continuity Gun, or a Retcon Gun. A gun that Literally erased you from time. It didn't Move you to the far end of time. It ERASED YOU. FROM TIME.
But the thing is, this is just the HAND HELD MODEL. The SMALLER version for LIMITED USE. We didn't invent the handgun first, we invented a BIG gun, then tried to make it smaller and easier to use. A gun that could erase something from all of time? You can BET DAOT Humanity had BIG Ontological Guns.
If you look up the chrono weapons of the Necrons, they really only have time stop, slow, or accelerate time for themselves or others. But as far as I know, they don't have any weapon that retroactively kills a person.
Weshammer mentioned it in a video, and IIRC it was written about in the Lord of the First book. From how I hear it described, an Astartes used it on 25 infected crewmen he knew. He had eidedic memory, but even he struggled to remember any details past the basic, such as that there were 25 of them, and they were armed with stub pistols and wrenches.
You'll find plenty of people saying the Orrery, or maybe the Tachyon Arrow, or the Doomsday Cannon. DAOT Humanity MIGHT not have had something like the Celestial Orrery, we don't know for sure, but they for sure had plenty of different weapons like the Tachyon Arrow and Doomsday Cannon.
The only similar object, vastly more powerful and dangerous, but vastly more difficult to control and use, is the Breath of the Gods. Which could similarly manupilate time, siphoning power from stars in the past, present, and future, for basically infinite power. It could create or destroy entire solar systems, or destroy the timeline.
But still, that's why I say they were close. We still know very little about the weapons of the DAOT, only finding the most miniscule crimes against reality.
Damn, this video is really good can't believe you don't have that much of subs
Necrons do have vast planet wide Ai systems that control the awakening processes/ repair functions. If a tomb world loses its ruling cast they can take control and orchestrate the affairs of the tomb worlds until a command chain takes control or is given control. Some times these systems parasite them selves into other sleeping tombs removing the leaders to remain in control of isolated empire. These AI’s are not the most adaptable but they make up for this with ruthless methodical tactics that grind their foes down.
I think that the men of iron's peak tech was closer to necron tech then humanity's peak tech
I say this because the men of iron most likely used ai singularitys
We are entirely ignorant of the DAoT's society, politics, and culture. However, both of them would inevitably interact...poorly. Both would face a foe that could hurt them incredibly hard. They would regret any conflict that occours on a sufficient scale, which the pride of both would inevitability bring them too.
i believe the DAoT humans were on par or above, they casually had guns that automatically detected enemy fire, then returned fire by forming a blackhole at the place where the fire came from. this is a leftover of the weapons, and it was used by the nightlords as a last resort. the ai ship from the dark age said humans were on the brink of transcendence, which i take as on the brink of becoming gods. this negates the ctan, as they are not necrons.
Lol peak nerco is insane the only one that can stand up to them are the old one
The big point is that the necromancy - even tho they have kept most of their tech - have also lost their greatest weapons. C’tan breaker guns or the breath of the gods were just too powerful, but they need were either destroyed or in the case of the breath of the gods need an entire unbroken c’tan to operate fully
I think it comes down to scale, even if they 'are' on par the Necrontyr were so immensely giant.
Necrons didn't wake up because they didn't know they were being messed with by the golden age humans 😂
MECHANICUM being my favorite part of mankind's lore, these subjects are C A N D Y
idk about not catching up at least if AI hadn't revolted...
The necronyr had who knows how long of time building their empire and technology BEFORE they faced the old ones and were already the undisputed technology masters only being rivaled by said old ones warp based abilities. They already could travel take the war to others in galaxy back then before any C'tans and then had another 5 million years after that with also the help of the C'tan to progress further whose help they don't have anymore and some amount of time after.
Meanwhile humans went from barely making it out of the atmosphere to conquering the galaxy in a little over 10k years and over the course of another 10k became not only the dominant force in the galaxy but arguably the 2nd best technologically to the point what little bit of the less dangerous stuff that is still allowed to exist is still overwhelmingly powerful in modern era.
Basically Necrons had millions of years of headstart but humans once they really started trying were speed running things at exponential rates until AI rebelled... and even then they might have been fine if they weren't being plagued by warp storms starting around then too. Of course that was pregame history and this is at the end a game and status quo needs to be maintained so it wont happen but in a world that is built like 40k you could definitely see them making a come back and going even more ham then before. It'd be more or less inevitable
This is the exact reason necron lore annoys me. They have crazy tech, to the point they can trap, shatter and harness actual gods but couldn't bio engineer some new boieds for themselves better bodies
There is one field of science where even current humanity surpasses Necron. At least I believe so, otherwise C'tan wouldn't be able to trick the Necrons. That field is - genetics. If Necron could elevate their bodies to a level of say, a primarch, they wouldn't need C'tan, they wouldn't rage against the Old Ones. But they couldn't!
It was always going to be the Necrons. A more interesting comparison of technological scale is Dark Eldar and Necrons. Or maybe the Kin and Dark Eldar.
@@HorusHeresy1982 but the kin are less advanced than daot.
Good video
What if the tau empire discovered a fully intact s.t.c?
The necrons were the masters of the materium, the Eldar (thanks to the Old Ones) were masters of the immaterium.
Mankind dabbled in both, overreached in both, and their galaxic empire declined twice as a consequence.
it's like comparing crossbo to laser gun
sources on videp footage?
And yet the Necrontyr never figured out gene sequencing.
Let's face it, the Necrons were able to develop for multiple Eons even after defeating the Old Ones and they slept for another multiple Eons stagnating the development of their technologies, The Eldar also ended up like the Necrons Developing for many Eons and Stagnated after many more Eons. Mankind on the other hand had a short time to develop their technology for a couple of millennia and they achieved most of it out of the short time existing in the Galaxy, but in the end, they falter.
Technological Level Wise I bet GAOT Humanity is fast approaching Necron Technological Level Peak, as both Factions have molecular weapons, blackhole and singularity power sources, Realspace FTL Drive Tech, and much more.
GW, 1 of the most recent lore that retconned the Imperium role in the galaxy, was that they realized how massive the Galaxy both IRL and In-game really is and changed the IOM from a Galactic Empire with a Galaxy Wide Territory to 1 of the Major forces in the Milky Way Galaxy that controls half of the Orion Arm of the Galaxy, so the possibility of finding more GAOT Humans living their own prosperous lives is bigger than ever, I mean if the Tau could prosper in a small corner in the Orion Arm without clashing Chaos even though Chaos influence is Galactic Wide is the whole point of this Lore Retconned thing that GW always do to their story.
If fans doubt my claims about the lore-retconned thing, then just ask the Femtudes for that matter.
Ok what actually power's necrons technology cause its looking like the green superman kriptinite give spelling. I'd appreciate it.
Time also a factor when gauging these factions. While Necrons are superior, it took them millions of years to attain their level of achievement. Humanity just took 20,000 and were at the apex of their own understanding of technology without knowledge of the Warp for that matter. Given enough time, DAOT might just pass the necrons.
Also consider how old the necrons are. They were millions of years old humanity was only 10s of thousands years old.
Isn't human also have the void dragon to bost the technology progress?
The dragon of Mars is speculation. It hasn't yet been confirmed.
Humanity were also better gene smiths than the necrontier were. We also had a better understanding of aetherics and the production of arcanotech.
Lol the nerco can travel thought the universe without the warp and dot human cannot and let not mention the warp chaos destroy dot humanity.
im always hearing how advanced necrons are and yes they are HOWEVER its not like they been advancing for 65 million years they been slumbering.
Execute me for heresy if you must lord inquisitor but is it not possible that the emperor of mankind is just a great old one taking advantage of or guiding humanity for its own purposes? Or something just as ancient?
Well to be fair humanity had like what 5k? 10k years and still did wonders like retcon guns, necrons had millions of years and gods on their side
Golden "Frone"...😂😂😂
Maybe someone can answer for me, would the emperor know of all the dark age tech? And if so why didn’t he recreate it?
So I've made a short for this and you can view it here: ruclips.net/user/shortsMPaVjFE8iAk?feature=shared
But as a TLDR he did know of technologies during the dark age as he lived through it, but he wouldn't have known them all and couldn't re-create them for a few reasons. Whilst he's intelligent he doesn't know everything and as such could not re-create the tech he did not know of, so instead would have to kitbash other technologies to make something akin to it. The other reason is that he couldn't re-create them exactly the same as almost all that was known about them has been erased to time. Think of it like this, an apocalypse comes by tomorrow and all the factories that make phones and the instructions to build them are all destroyed. You know what a phone is and how to use them but could you re-create the phone exactly after this apocalypse? Probably not but you might be able to make something like them, it would just take time. That's kind of what the emperor had to deal with.
The lore says dark age tech rivaled that of the aeldars, but you see the aeldars were pretty shit with tech considering they got all that space magic to work with.
still magic compared to imperium tech to be fair
Massive mistake here. To say that Humanity mastered AI is wrong as the necrons themselves are AI thus all of their creations/weapons are also AI by extention. If an AI is smart enough to create a weapon that can snuff out stars then the weapon itself is by extention AI.
The counter to this argument is if the Necron's today can't manufacture what they did in the past which so far we have not had confirmed. (at least to my knowledge)
I am 100% sure DA humanity was way beyond current Necrons. Dont know much about prime Necrons.
What if nekrons had halo slipspace warp engines?
The tau prove different species can advance at vastly different rates.
The Necrons will never beat humanities STC of household appliances.
Yet the Gauss Flayer is S4 AP0
AI are we entering humanity dark age right now
eldar fuck whatever they want to call it
The reason neceon AI is limited is BECAUSE the necrons are smarter 😅 your AI cant overthrow you if its impaired
Dark Age Humans are Star Trek humans. Peak Necrons are close to Q.
What does “daot” stand for?
Dark Age of Technology it's just easier to abbreviate it to DAoT sometimes
@@HypospaceYT ah ok
I actually disagree. I think the Necron did better in blending AI with themselves than anything else. We just did not do better. I think it is a measure of Humanity could of but did not. Hence why others like Trazyn think we might be needed. The monkeighs needed to be blended with.
In one bookn and old ship with a ai said how it gladly called humans masters but they fallen from grace and no longer deserve that tittle like the men of irpn loved humans but they did ssomtjing wrong thus losing there respect
that ship came from a time before the robot revolt thus was not effected like the other AI
@@TrenchCoatDingo but it would still be around for it would it not
Tho Necrons have higher tech, they have been alive for over 60 millions years... How many years have the humans been alive and have the tech? Now sure even when Humans went into the golden age, and then into dark age. Id still say humans are doing pretty well... Tho i wont say Humans are having a good time. A new golden age would probalbly fix that.
Did humanity have a celestial zen garden that was a scale model of the galaxy? One that you could simple reach into, and with a gesture, send any star in realspace supernova somehow?
So humanity doesn't/didn't have what you're describing, the Necrons however do in the form of the Celestial Orrery.
However, humanity did create devices that could destroy stars, just not to the extent of the Necrons.
From the Occlusiad War: "The northwestern fringe is ravaged by the Apostles of the Blind King, rogue Tech-Priests who view humanity as an affront to the Machine God. The Apostles uncover artefacts lost in the Dark Age of Technology that allow the creation of supernovae from the hearts of living suns."
The Orrery is the silliest bit of over-the-top style 40k lore. Like...how does that even work? 😂
@@streetstroller "I'm an ancient robotic wizard, I ain't gotta explain shit" - the necrons in charge of the orrery
Did the Necrons invent general AI that could think vastly faster than any human brain and pair it with tech that allowed nanomachines to clear an entire planet of hostiles in "an eyeblink", or do they still to this day rely on plodding warriors and other slow constructs that fail to prevent tombworlds from getting destroyed by the likes of fallen Eldar and primitive humans?
The Necrons managed to retain their tech after millions of years and last that long, humans lost theirs after thousands, the Necrons were more advanced period.
Nah. Humanity lost their tech becasue the eldar fucked around too much (literally). They didn't have the time the necrons did to hone and perfect their technology.
Say thanks to Slaneesh 😉
Well y’all if we count the men of iron damn near every race had to jump them
The Necrons/Necrontyr suck at medicine.
If only the Old Ones would have given the Necrontyr some chemo.
Hm, Necron -> Eldar -> Humans -> Krork
I'd say the human's where close to the Eldar.
In some aspects like you pointed out Humans reign supreme.
Human's research into super-being's such as the Emperor, Primarch etc and AI seem fairly unique.
I still maintain the Emperor is Dark Age Tech. Nowhere else do shaman's (psykers) just conglomerate into a fused being. shit's weird.
Humans making Emps would fit perfectly into their projects such as men of gold/stone/iron etc. he would just slot right in, especially considering Primarchs, Thunder Warriors, Marines, Primaris etc, which all seem part of the same lineage of tech.
The lower you get the more mass-produced, the higher the more unique. Heck it might be that they fused psykers to get the emperor, but certainly not in pre-history.