Dr. Michael Brown OPENS UP About THIS Mega Church Pastor SCANDAL
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- Опубликовано: 14 фев 2024
- Dr. Michael Brown OPENS UP About THIS Mega Church Pastor SCANDAL
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I can't wait for what the people who are against pastoral accountabilty have to say about this. Keep up the good work Ruslan and company. I wish more prominent Christian celebs would shine a spotlight on this. For all my disagreements with you, you are no coward and I respect that more than you can imagine.
I was a part of IHOP for 5 years. I actually worked for Mike's wife Diane for 2 of those. I love your channel BTW and watch all the time. I think there's a ton of context missing to this. You have to understand the way Mike built this ministry and the way he is. I now believe Mike is a full fledged narcissist who built up a team of people around him to not only defend him but to believe that any attack against him is the work of the devil. It's crafty stuff but he disarmed us all with this persona that was so much "just a regular guy" however he put language around himself that whilst he is ordinary, he is ordained and being used by God for this incredible purpose. To me it was always encouraging, like I could be used too! But also he was the anti Joel Osteen, he drove a Civic, he lives in a crappy townhome (I've been to it, it really is not nice in any way), and we all thought he was humble. It's clear now that he was building this brand that blinded us all and some now are still defending him to the death. He has been twisting and manipulating stuff for decades and I see that now, it's heartbreaking. My heart breaks for Diane, she's a wonderful person, and all of these women he hurt. But this goes beyond SA in the Church, this is about control, coercion, and power. That is truly what needs to be delivered from the Church.
I heard Dr. Brown say once, "When we are deceived, we don't know we are being deceived....that's what deception is. I think Mike Bickle was deceived and really believed the lie that he wasn't that bad. This is why we need to use the word of God as a measure and not each other. I graduated FIRE School of Ministry. Then went to China Many who graduated with us went on to IHOPKC after graduation. They are hurting. People will always disappoint us. God will disappoint us as well. It's what we do with the disappointment. We all need to watch our own lives and walk carefully. Dr. Brown and Stephen Strang had a talk last night, interesting and more up to date.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🇬🇧
Thank you for sharing
Many people could sense from a distance that he was off.. the whole celebrity system in the church is a breeding ground for abusers and grandiose narcissists..
When did honouring leaders become synonymous with defending abusers. Leaders are put on a pedestal. They need to be humble and be real with Thier team around them and the team need to urge openness with congregation , repentance and be willing to get authorities involved straight away if the law has been broken
Serious accusations like abuse need external third parties. Internal groups have a tendency to be loyal to the pastor and the organisation. Never objective.
EXACTLY. From my understanding, the first two firms IHOP picked had clear ties. The third and main one was technically a third party, but also boasted on their website for getting church clergy off the hook for these sorts of allegations 😳. Then the IHOP leadership team was brazen enough to say it was all the fault of the advocate group for not complying with the investigation 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
All of this points to the need to ask some probing questions of a church’s leadership BEFORE joining and supporting them with your your time, treasure and membership and submitting to their authority……
To whom are they accountable ?
What policies for scriptural discipline are in the church’s covenants and by-laws?
Have they actually been utilized ?
What sort of background investigation and personal accountability procedures are in place to deal decisively with inappropriate behavior.
What are the church’s stated standards for its leaders & their highest priorities? Are honesty, integrity, truthfulness and accountability listed among them?
The doctrine of eternal security (once saved, always saved) does not provide much of a deterrent to sinful practices nor much motivation for living holy, sanctified lives.
It is common for people who subscribe to that belief to conclude they are going to Heaven no matter how they live because they were once “saved”.
“Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.”
Nothing unclean, unholy or undefiledis going to enter into the presence of a Holy God.
I am a Christian therapist with many years working in this field. I can tell you that the same issues occurring in society are also nearly a prevalent in the church. This includes pornography, abortion, divorce, affairs and addictions of all kinds. It’s time for leaders to properly screen people applying for jobs, to have accountability, transparency, support and resources for people struggling with any issue or sin. Leaders need to talk about these things and offer support or refer people to resources when issues occur.
Amen 🙏🏾 thanks for sharing and for your work
They always have been. We're human and not God. When was the last time you sinned?
@@78LedHead, are you implying that there should not be higher standards for leaders because everyone sins?
My wife is a full time Pro Life worker foR CBR(The Centre for Bioethical Reform) and it’s through the abortion issue that God brought us together. Trying to get Pastors on board with the Pro Life issue is almost impossible here in the UK, a little better in the US where she is from. This shows the poor state that the Church is in in my opinion.
Dear Christian Therapist,
God’s Word clearly calls God’s people first, to repentance and then to holiness, separation from sinful practices and to be sanctified, crucifying the flesh and the lusts thereof. Leaders (elders) who sin are to be publicly rebuked “before all”. Members of rhe Body of Christ who persist in their sin are to be removed by Godly shepherds for the good of the flock. And only when they demonstrate genuine repentance, are they to be restored. God’s standard of holiness has been set aside in the interest of numerical growth, success and notoriety.
Many Pastors, more interested in bucks and butts in their pews have relaxed and lowered God’s holy standard set by Jesus Christ; “Be ye holy, for I AM holy”. They present series after series of man-pleasing messages with no clear call to repentance and provide no living example of holiness nor fear of the Lord.
Jesus will judge these pastors for the unfaithful hirelings that they are. Many who believed they were saved, will find themselves and those who followed them judged to be unworthy of the Kingdom of God and condemned. “Without holiness, no man shall see God.”
The is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT according to the flesh but according to the Spirit of God.”
We are without excuse. No believer can say he or she is simply powerless over sin unless they have refused the power Jesus has offered to them. The power of the Holy Spirit is available to every believer in Jesus who repents of his/her sin and asks for and receives that power. A Christian is only powerless by choice. Jesus did not offer sin-therapy but He called sin, sin, it’s penalty, death and He called sinners to repentance and His disciples to holiness. Purity, sanctification, and separation. are possible given power is being exercised. Faith without works is dead; being alone. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to them that believe.
“Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do the things that I say ?
His disciples asked Him; Lord are there few to be saved?” May I encourage you?
Find the answer He gave to that question. Beyond receiving Christ as one’s savior, there is another series of ongoing choices every believer must make. Among them is the road I choose to walk on. One road leads to destruction and many go therein. The other leads to eternal life and few there be that find it. Choose it. Live it. Teach it. And preach it. Your eternity depends upon it.
This reminds me of the Ravi Zacharias scandal. That one hurt because I really thought of Ravi as someone who is bringing the light of the gospel to a world that really needed it. Then all the work he did was undone and his families name scandaled, his widow left with Im sure a huge hole in her heart. We must be better and publicly denounce these people by name.
Ravi did bring the gospel to people. Yes he was flawed, yes it was terrible. His name and ministry agency have been ruined, however I don't think you can say 30+ years of evangelism efforts went up in smoke.
@@janelleg597 Judas was part of the 12 and brought people to Jesus himself but ultimately fell away. Anything with Ravi's name has been scrubbed from the ministry he founded. It cost lots of money and reputations. Nobody is carrying on his legacy and everyone who was associated with him has completely separated themselves from his ministry and name. If anyone were to use anything associated with Ravi, it should be with extreme caution.
@@janelleg597How about we separate God’s savaging grace from a serial SA and manipulator eh? Yes, his evangelism went up in smoke and rightfully so. Think of this from a victim’s perspective. Think about if they were your daughters! It’s not like he committed “financial fraud”. The issues is that HE WAS THE FRAUD. Possibly not even a Christian. Just because he spoke all over the world, and “people turned to Christ” has NOTHING to do with the legitimacy of his faith outside of his theological knowledge. You’re telling me that a man who goes to a podium, speaks about Christ, turns around and then SAs a woman should not be torn to shreds and separated entirely from the church and evangelism due to how terribly he’s torn Christ to shreds publicly??? Demand more accountability. Demand a higher standard. Quit living in a world where you get to keep your “Christian rep” just because you said words on a stage.
Ravi’s family are fighting it after finding bogus evidence…specifically what the 3rd party found on his cell phone. RZIM also used threats and bullying techniques to silence his daughters. Not as cut and dry as it was presented to the public.
The problem is , there is a thin line between honoring and idolizing. People cannot ignore the fact that the way people idolize on their campus is deep. They treat leadership like gods. So it’s very difficult for them to believe that he could do anything at all.
My former senior pastor had an affair with an 18 year old girl in the church. He groomed her for years prior. His wife found out and covered it up for 5 years. Eventually an elder found out and he was fired by the congregation.
Let's keep it simple: "Whoever says "I know God", but does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.". This is a blatant indication of a life of hypocrisy. No real walk with God.
Sin fascinates you …and then it assassinates you.
Praying MB comes to experience Jesus forgiveness & deliverance.
So much “Prophecy.” Yet none of them get the word of knowledge that the whole movement of built by a monster.
BOOM
lol. good point and so true.
Many prophets didn't get prophecy until the correct time, the time the Lord sent those words of knowledge. Nathan wasn't told by God of the sin of Bathsheba......until he WAS told about it from God. In recent years, many prophetic people were getting dreams of perversion in the basement of IHOP and all sorts of different things. So there has been prophecy letting people know. Remember, we prophesy in part and know in part. I wouldn't doubt God was showing some people on the inside of IHOP and they just couldn't receive it or believe it...until they WERE able to receive it and they became part of the Advocate Group.
Prophecy doesn't mean supernaturally knowing everything. Only God knows everything. New Testament prophecy, moved in every believer by the indwelled Holy Spirit, means simply hearing the Lord--as 1 Corinthians 14:3 says for Exhortation, Edification, and Comfort.
Blessings to all who read this!
@@deweyonpoint5765 actually fair.
@@deweyonpoint5765 this very answer shows a clear disconnect between historical/biblical prophecy and its place with church life. Prophecy in the scripture did not consist of somebody getting some vague feeling that they could accept or reject as a prophet.
Meanwhile, this is not the case of some other person being in involved in sin and God sending a prophet. It took an abused person coming forward to reveal the truth ABOUT the prophet.
IHOP KC is his baby built while being an abuser. A puffed up wharf, claiming to hear the audible voice of God at times, and having been to heaven twice.
Wikipedia reminds me,
“There has been criticism of aspects of Bickle's theology and ministry practices. Aspects of his ministry which have been particularly controversial include his view of the prophetic ministry.[20] Bickle's ministry has been criticized with focus on the sexual activities of some of the ministers that were closely connected with his ministry in the 80s and 90s, including Bob Jones[21][22] and Paul Cain though neither has been directly involved with Bickle's ministry for several years as a result.[23][24][22]
However, as of 2017 Mike Bickle continued to praise Bob Jones and would credit him with the start of the International House of Prayer with no mention of the sexual abuse.”
Geez,
”These are blemishes on your love-feasts, while they feast with you without fear, feeding themselves. They are waterless clouds carried along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the deepest darkness has been reserved forever.“
People need to STOP taking up for, covering up for, and making excuses for the evil abuse! The enablers are just as evil and abusive toward the victims! Justice and righteousness will bring honor to Jesus.
Appreciate you sharing this story and calling the church to a higher standard. Been following this story for a while just a lot of back and forth, causing a lot of division but God is burning down things that are against his will. Shout out to ihopkc elders and reporters sharing this story.
Still watching Dr. Brown go on and on about this subject that I saw him keep in check IHOP's congregants in a video just a couple of months ago. I have respected Dr. Brown tremendously since the 90's when he visited our church. But this whole disappointment includes him, too, because he initially addressed this whole problem in a way that was too safe for Bickle. I have been so tired of the hierarchy that keeps people so in check that they can't question anything until those up the ladder are ready themselves to address problems with less apathy. Other the years they have let loose teaching charismatics about jezebel spirit to keep people in check, they've taught people to honor leadership unquestioningly and they've led in other ways that Jesus spoke against when He said that His believers were not to lord over others.
I'm really disappointed. Now, back to watching.
Agreed, the first ones duped are the ones who see their mighty leader abuse someone (usually on their staff ) so the leader gets his way and not call him out on it… That where it starts, where are the men and women calling out unbiblical behavior on a day to day basis ??? Leader or not, elder or not, best Bible teacher ever or not ???
@@MA-tq5xz Exactly. That's a reason why a church was given stern warning in Revelations when Jesus told John to send letters out. And the apostle Paul told the Galatians how he had to rebuke Peter to his face for dissing his Gentile fellow believers. Prophets in the Old Testament were given instructions to issue very stern words to false prophets, who were leaders. What's happening now on a regular basis does not line up with the gospel and Scriptures.
Amen. Not to mention the culture of honour teaching
This man, Michael Brown yolks himself with false teachers and false prophets that ought to tell you enough right there.
It’s impossible for me to listen to Dr. Michael Browne. He has a line himself with Mike Bickle and Todd Bentley and all kinds of crazy people. He often sounds like a politician. He can’t answer a question. On one of the roundtable sessions of American gospel, he and Sam Storms would reply to anything. The other men said that was an accusation of air in teaching and gospel presentation. They would say this, and you know their heart you can judge their heart, whether or not they’re going to hell and you can judge whether or not, they’re going to wasn’t about that was about the error in the doctrine. This man plays politician speech.
Sadly we will continue to see this for as long as we insist, as we do in the Protestant church, that true and pure salvation consists strictly of agreeing with a formulaic proposition, and minimizing or very often actively contradicting the notion that we are expected to grow more and more into the likeness of Christ….I’ve heard such contradictions countless times from the pulpit in church, from the podium in Bible college and certainly from the couch in home groups and bible studies ….. we’ve made our own bed and really have no leg to stand on in these controversies …..May God have mercy…..
When your entire theology relies on emotions, feelings, and experiences…. Instead of the Word, this type of things tend to happen.
Just for anyone wondering, if you follow the threads since october and the fact that many people who were personally friends of Mike, personally discipled by him, and personally involved in IHOP have said he's guilty. His spiritual sons all believe Jane Doe. Several of his closest ministry partners believe Jane Doe. There's literally no chance he's innocent if you've followed it closely
Plus Bickle admitted inappropriate sexual contact with two women himself, (while not admitting to everything he was accused of, he admitted to enough to disqualify him as a minister.
People need to learn the word of God and live by it. Nowhere in the Bible says sleep with your leaders for prophetic words
This type of things happen because many “ministers “ are in this for their own glory sometimes it has nothing to do with money but the power they hold over the ppl which is crazy because the power they hold is contradictory to the Word. I have been part of a church that when u push back on certain things that are clearly unbiblical and what ends up happening is you get shunned or pushed out and sadly many of the sheep will protect the “leader”even if they are wrong. Especially in churches that operate in the Prophetic because they instill in the ppl that you should not touch the lords anointed or the send subliminal messages where you are being taught from the pulpit that the “enemy” will put these things in your head or bring false witness to hurt their ministry so it takes a long time for ppl to believe or be Bold enough to confront the leadership.. a lot of the time the leader shields himself with their friends placing them as deacons or board members
Amen!!!
A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit.
I too am a Ph.D. counselor and I agree with you. However, I thought they were interviewing Dr. Brown. Ethics and copyright concerns here….Sin and psychopathology are the issues here.
Since God speaks to them personally, why don't they just ask God what to do? Simple. They don't need a 2nd or 3rd party at all. Just allow God to come over to wherever they speak to Him and end all of this. Just ask Apostle Kathryn to talk to God about it and she can settle it all.
The AG, by the way they handled this situation, destroyed IHOP. The Prayer Room has been destroyed; mission accomplished. Prayers ceased.
I saw an update from IHOPKC stating that yes, there are going to be many changes taking place. However, the actual 24/7 prayer will not end.
Yes, they are going to moved the Prayer Room to a smaller room in the university building, the ihopkc building where the Prayer Room has been is now empty except for a small number of believers attending. Ihop has been destroyed, I know because I am there. @@cindyburch5977
This should be a lesson to us all. Moralism sounds right to the human ear, but A LOT of times, those who preach moralism from the pulpit have dirty, dark secrets to hide. There are none of us without sin. Anyone who says so, scripture calls them a liar (and lying is a sin). Don't ever get wrapped up in self righteousness my friends. The Lord sees in secret. He sees the sins you don't think others see. He sees the sins in you that you, yourself, don't see. All have fallen short. Only One was truly righteous. The righteousness of God IS Christ.
Absolutely. And, we, are the righteousness of God IN Christ. Our righteousness stinks.
@@sandragambrel9721 Amen, and we are his extremely loved children anyway but I thank God others see it. We all certainly do stink sometimes. His ways are so much higher. God bless you sister.
We’re supposed to preach holiness which involves godly loving. That isn’t self righteousness or moralism. The Bible doesn’t say we have to sin at least sometimes. With respect that is a large misreading of 1 John 1:8. Read the whole letter and then recontextualize how you read that one passage. 1 John 3 says we are righteous just as he is righteous.
@@jordandthornburg Amen! "As He is, so are we in this world.". It works as a self-fulling prophesy when we speak who we are in Christ after our conversion. I'm a new creation, and all things are new. Me, too, praise God!!! God bless you Jordan!!!!
@@jordandthornburg How long has it been since you sinned?
I have relatives who attended both New Life Church when Ted Haggard fell. Now they attend IHOP-KC. If I weren't more compassionate I'd say they really know how to pick a church.
Spent 6 years at IHOKC and this has been very heartbreaking.
The body of Christ is hurting and I do pray that anything done in darkness will be brought to light whether there was SA done by ministry leaders or an initiative to bear false witness agiant them. We do however need to stop trying to hush scandals for the sake of fear that the body of Christ will fall apart. We need to test our church body to believe in Jesus and stand on solid rock and stop idolizing men in ministry who can be weak in the flesh.
The spiritual and emotional connection to God can be manipulated in these places to form interpersonal, emotional connections, dividing members away from God and toward each other. If that's the 'grooming' at play here, I've seen it with my own eyes as well. So many of the places are more business than worship centers of Biblical education that I have chosen not to partake the older I have got, but am always down to have the conversations.
I was not aware that a Pancake restaurant chain had pastors
This is why we have to be Christ Centered and not Church centered.. Humans are imperfect but God is Perfect. Keep your eyes on God, not on the churches
Hey brother. I appreciate a lot of your content, but lumping in “MacArthur’s church” without giving the situation proper attention to detail is not responsible.
Gray went to prison after GCC demanding his wife submit to him, and they have never apologised to her or admitted that they were wrong.
It’s just a different scandal along the same lines.
IHOP will be worse when it all comes out.
Now that you know what John MacArhur & his church were wrong and never recanted or apologized what do you have to say?
It's not lumping them together, it's pointing out that many other churches have been involved in scandal
@@joshuatrott193”proper attention to detail” was my request.
@@RevDavidReyes A flagrant comment like this is sad brother.
I don’t know anything about it (which is why I asked for proper attention to detail) and now I will look into it. I do not know this other brother who commented with his perspective of what happened there.
What happened to unity in the body and treating people with respect?
Thanks for being a keyboard warrior 👍🏽
I think its more prevalent unfortunately.
Tammy was 14 years old
Where were the parents?
@@sandragambrel9721seriously the parents probably trusted the supposed “man of god”. I agree parents should have been more aware but WHO is the one common denominator in these Mike Bickle!
@@tinas7909 Tammy shared that part of "her" grooming included "grooming her parents."
IMHO the church changed drastically around very early 80ies
Back in 2010 a friend came back from an IHOP conference and came back with some ideas that I say would border on the occult. Like guided meditation prayer and summoning Jesus. I have been wary of anything doing with the place since then.
Having interacted with a lot of ihop teachings I’ll confidently say I’ve never come across anything that resembles any of that, unless by guided meditation you mean meditating on the scriptures
Mike Bickle is certainly foul for this, but that doesn’t then negate the entirety of God’s ministry through ihop
What?? Really??😮
I never heard anything like that from IHOP.
@@wesleywallace101 no it was like they put on this specific music and they are supposed to envision Jesus in like a field or something. She even talked about him being her own "personal Jesus". She said Jesus appears different to everyone.
I was just very unsettled by it because it sounded very similar to things that New Agers do to meet with spirit guides. She said she learned it all at this IHOP conference. Perhaps there was a rogue teacher in their midst. She kept trying to pressure her Christian friends to do this meditation with her but I declined.
Anyway it left a very bad impression on me of anything to do with IHOP.
I have noticed certain teachings on on ‘visualising’ and imagining what one wants in prayer and imho it’s conjuring up ‘visions’ in the flesh and invites demonic influence disguised as ‘ an angel of light’ to further deceive . It’s definitely not a scriptural teaching, more new age infiltration in the church🤔
I was there as a leader for almost 5 years in their night watch with Stuart Greaves- we’ve covered this from the early stage until today.
Sadly, Mike Bickle was in contact with Tammy Woods telling her how she should speak and what she should say if she’s ever asked about this - as recently as this last month 🤦♂️
Dr Brown has changed his tune a few times on this to the chagrin of all of us who actually gave years of our lives to this movement.
The “investigation” that Brown co-signed didn’t even interview the victims. Mind blowing.
They never agreed to an independent third party.
Brown acted like he was doing stuff to help but frankly they did whatever they wanted regardless of what Brown tried to do.
You should interview JOEL RICHARDSON about this. He’s in the know with everyone on this.
Lots to say here but yeah our channel has covered it from the get and so has dudes like @brotherjohnelving
The Advocate Group is literally losing ministry support because of this.
They have zero to gain.
Thanks for covering this.
1000%. The Advocate Group include his spiritual sons and close ministry partners, and Joel Richardson has gone in depth on the issues for a while.
@WakeUpandWinPodcast thank you for this. My husband and I used to be leaders of a small ministry that followed this type of ministry. It was a nightmare dealing with the narcissistic leadership attitudes from several people.
@WakeUpandWinPodcast Thank you for covering this! I've been watching your channel and it has been helpful as a fellow IHOPKC staff member back in 2012-2013.
Well said, Blaise.
@@janicebooy1007 I'm glad someone else does peer reviews before watching a video. I do, too.
I suspect Dr. Brown would have a different attitude if he wasn't close to this.
Dr. Brown seems to have an entrenched habit of trying to appear to be the "hero" in all these situations. He has defended many disgraceful wolves in the church over the years and has a history of avoiding confrontation with anyone who might have difficult questions about certain leaders. Revelations 3:15-16.
Pride and stubborness is the root cause to this so called impasse. The IHOPKC leadership is just too self righteousness. The problem is not process but pride.
People need to realize that EVERYONE IS HUMAN & PRONE TO SIN!! Pray for ALL churchs everywhere & know the devil is a liar!! King Jesus knows what's going on & God's will, will be done regardless of the mud slung!! Pray for all involved, & Pray for the bride🩵 The Kingdom is Coming!!!
@blessgodstudios have you guys inquired to bring Julie Roys on? Being a journalist with accurate track records in this space she might know. I would guess that it is less but not much less than secular spaces. Christians should be the biggest advocate for truth, justice and healing, I'll add reconciliation, but I don't think that means the abuser and abused getting together for a hug. We should not let money, status or power, deter us from what is good and holy.
I went to a church when i was young, where nearly all the elders were abusing the young girls. Found this out years later when in discussion with some of the girls. My mother took me to the police at the time, where i was treated like a criminal. I believe all of them got away with what they were doing.
If elders were chosen in line with what the bible puts forward as their job description, we may have hardly any elders at all. So we just accept what we can get, and never check that these people are still in line with their biblical job description.
God will build His church. If it's not working, maybe it's not meant to be. On the other hand, if it's working too well, like mega churches, maybe they aren't meant to be either.
Spurgeon had a system in place whereby everyone was checked. I've heard this referred to as the Jethro system by others. People in charge of groups of people so that everyone is kept to account. I guess it's a form of discipleship.
The last couple of churches I've been to, the pastor would not have known me if he met me in the street. Neither did he bother to find out why i left.
Good to deep dive in uneven power dynamics and clergy sexual abuse which is different from ‘just’ SA. There is way more than three victims here.
Would you be willing to interview @JoelRichardson about this situation?
Dr. Brown has lost credibility in this mess.
Absolutely
He lost credibility several years ago.
@@ladyketurahinwaiting yes, but at least now, a lot of charismatics can see it
@@KristiLEvans1 What are charismatics?
Big time. Sadly.
The idea of leadership is the issue. We are all equals! There is no hierarchy in the body of Christ. Those thst think so take scripture out of context. Jesus & Paul clearly taught against hierarchy yet we abrace it. So sad...
The path forward is always Christ alone. Christ plus nothing. Rejoice in the truth. He is our life . No man’s leadership can maintain this idolatry.
Bravo!
Finally a commentary on this issue that is clearly led by the love of Christ. I appreciate you brothers and I can tell that you understand what the “proper response is”…
Without a doubt, they need an independent investigation from outside. It makes IHOP. Casey looks so guilty, like they’re trying to cover up a lot more than just what Mike Bickel did. I do believe there are more that are complicit guilty for turning their head to this. Trust me, there are more than just a few I promise you. I still pray for God‘s mercy and grace for all that involved!
He must step down asap
james 3 : teachers and Leaders shall be judged with greater strictness. there will be grace but where is the repentance
You keep mentioning the "Macarthur situation." What are you referring to?
Why is he not saying sexual abuse but rather SA? I notice sometimes they censor words on the show that are odd and not normally censored. Does anyone know why?
Yeah, I think I know why. The RUclips platform can be very sensitive when it come to some words, so many creators have to censor themselves not to lose monetization and reach for their videos. Hope I could help, God bless brother!
To not get flagged by RUclips.
Easier to say, too.
How can people believe in the leadership of churches when people continue to see the leadership not leading as Christ says, sin no more for the commandments, laws and statues are Not grievous to do!
18:04 Couldn't agree more!
Years ago, the pastor's wife had an affair with the worship leader. We love in a small town, and EVERYONE in town seemed to know about it, except the pastor. When he finally found out, he just told them to knock it off, keep it quiet but he allowed the worship leader to continue in his role. Within a year, three other couples in that church were having affairs. 😢
We are not "brothers" and we do not serve the same God.
Some serve the god of sex and immorality and others serve the God of Israel and those two groups can never unite!
And the devil did not devide us.
Long term sin is deviding us.
Michael is not speaking the truth to us.
Look in the Bible who Jesus is calling His brothers and sisters; they that do the will of the Father in heaven.
Such wise words .... thank you. You have said what too many are afraid to say!
I really think the problem is the church doesn’t want to talk about sexual problems/lust/ pornography/ high levels of testosterone in young men etc….. . Our young men and men need to be able to share their struggles and sexual frustrations…. It used to be men would go to war and have to fight for their families to survive now men struggle with an outlet for their testosterone and we have pornography at our fingertips…. The church has to wake up to the amount of t of men who are addicted to porn… it starts young with a lot of these men and they can’t talk about it because they get shamed. I am a victim of molestation from a man in the church and legalism is a breeding ground for sexual sin because no one talks about sexual struggles with these men… everything gets hidden and then it grows and grows.
I am so sorry for the trauma you went through!!
I haven’t seen Julie Roy’s do a great job in covering these issues, I’ve seen her present one-sided stories. In order to find more information about John MacArthur’s church issue you have to read an entire podcast. In that you find that there was a lot of classified counseling between the couple, you find that the church did their due diligence. The couple attended the church, the husband worked at the church. The court could have brought charges against the church and MacArthur had they found evidence of wrongdoing, they didn’t bring charges. Roy’s does not mention most of the information from MacArthur’s side.
Pretty much everyone involved fumbled the ball on this other than the advocate group’s…advocates, such as, Allen Hood, Wes Martin, Dwayne Roberts, and others. Many of the leaders and other prominent voices were shameful and distasteful
why dont you just call the police
No doubt. You can't trust people too close to it to do the right thing. You can't even really trust the police always when wealthy people are involved, but this certainly sounds like more of a criminal issue than a rebuking issue. This type of thing goes on in churches way more than we care to admit, and that goes for all systems, Catholic, Protestant, and whatnot. It's a problem in Buddhism. It's a sickness.
If it happened in the 1970s then the statute of limitations is long since past. No police department will waste their time and resources on a 50 year old case.
@@Imissnormal There are loopholes in that. Look at Cosby.
They coerced the victims to stay silent while “IHOPKC” investigated - literally at the times that these things would occur. Women would go to leadership say, “This person in leadership r*ped me.” Once they did, leadership would force them into meeting, after meeting, after meeting, after meeting, instilling the belief in the victim that the issue would be handled. Then IHOPKC would not contact the police, drag their meetings on, do their own “investigation” and try to manipulate the situation and make the SA fade into irrelevance. They’ve even gaslit young woman so badly that they would force victims to apologize to the staff in leadership that r*ped them. Absolutely unreal.
@@hardcore907 assuming what youa re saying is true, that is one of the worse things I've ever heard a ministry do. I know there are many more but thats gross
If a person doesn't get the justice they want inside their church, they'll go outside and use those courts.
I know of a pastor who gave testimony in the public courts to the good nature of a husband only for the prosecutor to have more than three victims confirm this good Christian man was an out and out serial rapist.
I hope Dr. Brown has not bitten off more than he can chew.
My family's Pastor covered up the r*p* of my son for years and yet when the case went to court he refused to give evidence on behalf of the boy and instead appeared as a character witness for the perpetrator. Anyone who covers up or stands by these sexual predators is complicit in my view. The families of these victims are also severely traumatised by such events and yet they are for the most part shunned by the church once the events are disclosed. What does the body of Christ do to assist these families in the long term ... besides talk themselves up and try to "trade" off it all, I mean.
no one shuts their mouth for so long unless they have ulterior motives. my ex tried to say she was molested as a child and her mother said there was no way as the pastor never ever looked after her. i am very sceptical. strange how women attach themselves to teachers and men in authority and have imaginations that become real memories somehow. just ask your wife when she dreams that you cheat on her as far as she is concerned it is real.
My 10 year old granddaughter would raise hell if anyone tried to “fondle” her, so would my 17 yo granddaughter, just as l did when it happened to me at age 16, so what’s with the victim mentality from women old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. If he did it, yes, he needs to be held accountable but what about the accountability of these young women going on with a sexual relationship with him for years! If they hated it so much, why keep your mouth shut and going back for more?! That’s insane! Where is their sense of responsibility to other women and children? To the body of Christ? I would have started a big fat war over this.
A grown man touched me at work when l was a teen. He was my boss. I immediately threatened to slap his face and told him l would also tell my father who would beat him up or shoot him. He never tried anything with me again, ever. Women can often put a screeching halt to this stuff. The righteous are as bold as a lion. You can’t just put up with crap and then yell foul years later. If you do you are not a victim but part of the problem.
If Mary the mother of Jesus heard from God as a young maiden and she was willing to have a baby in the scary situation she was in, then SURELY young women can speak up immediately about abuse. Its not 1900 anymore!
Stop teaching Christian women that men are their masters to be obeyed and submitted to no matter what they do. There needs to be some wisdom applied here or we are no better than heathens.
The OLD aged Jane Does should show some responsibility, Kudos ! But its plain easier to accuse MB of everything whether true or not, isn't it?
That's why these abusers have a grooming process. So they know who can be trained not to fight like you did.
Honestly, they were probably blinded by the stars in their eyes they had for him. The situation makes me think of the characteristics of a cult leader, who tries to develop his image and brainwashes his followers into putting him on a pedestal. It would be tough to say no to someone you have on a pedestal, and you'd continue the behavior because it makes you feel "special" that you even have this person's attention. After enough time and distance or some sort of catalyst like another person coming forward with their story, your understanding of your own situation shifts and you start waking up to the possibility you've been abused, and that's when the idol starts falling off the pedestal. That's a pretty decent job in brainwashing, it's why it can take so long to overcome.
I trekked most of the way until about 17 minutes. When you say the church is an institution, what is your Biblical reasoning behind this? What do you mean by this wording? I feel that would be a worthy topic for you to explore. Perhaps this concept of the church as an institution is why we find such institutional corruption in the "church" of God. It would be an interesting topic, as I appreciate your heart and perspective. I know sometimes words/connotations can get in the way. Thanks for speaking to this ✌
An institution is any organization established for some public or social purpose. It's why the Apostles traveled around establishing Churches. Organized places where people can go if they are seeking God, praise the Lord. Unfortunately, some Churches have been established to gain power, and control, over people. Hay, and stubble, built on a corrupt foundation. Causing men to put their trust in man, rather than God. Seek the Lord, and He will find you, right where you are at, amen!!!!
I understand how the world defines institutions. My push back was you applying such definition to the Church that God did not. I've never heard in Scripture the disciples or apostles refer to the Lord's church as an institution. They recognized it as the Kingdom of God come to earth, that we "as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood" (2 Peter 2:4-5). The church is also referred to as His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27) and as His body (1 Corinthians 12:27) but never as an institution (that I know of). That being said, I am open to you showing me from Scripture where you find the church being defined as an "institution." Thanks for your feedback! @@sandragambrel9721
@@wildandfree56 Now, I'm not the one who called the Church an "institution", but, I can see it as a spiritual institution. Some people in society see it as a place where people go to find God, or, study Him, or, with Him, or, to just worship Him with others. That's what Sunday School is for, and Church socials, prayer meetings, and such. It's like the word "trinity". It's not found in the Bible, but it's a concept found there. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, as One. That's my thinking on the topic. How do we explain being members of One Body, lol. By Faith. And that's according to scriptures. Be blessed!!! Like Peter told Timothy, some things Paul says are hard to understand, lol.
@@wildandfree56it doesn’t have to be defined in the Bible as an institution for it to indeed be an institution.
Right, but that's as per the definition of your modern/secularized world, not through the lens of Scripture. That was my point.@@bradleykimmons
Sad to see Christians attack eachother - even here in the comments.
I think it is idolatry for someone to lose their faith in Jesus Christ because a Pastor or a leader is caught up in a transgression. The Bible says we should fix our gaze on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.
Have you ever been abused by a spiritual mentor? Why do you think Jesus’ promises a fate worse than a millstone-neck drowning to all those who hurt His little ones? Its naive to think that leaders cant misrepresent Christ to such a degree that it traumatises and shipwrecks victims. Their relationship with God is still on them but I think God approaches this much more tenderly and not with this type of unhelpful, pharisaical judgement.
When are the charismatic proponents going to realize this is what 2 pet 2 was talking about? There is no prophecy outside of the ready of Gods written Word otherwise wolves will come in and “prophecy” to their own profit…
11:14 something doesn’t smell right…. They had a group both parties agreed on and then it cannot happen?
I don’t want to make light of this obviously serious situation but a young man and woman from almost 50 years ago sounds like a situation where things went outside of proper but if it was a relationship, then how do you get that the girl was fondled and sa’d???
Also, I have know men of God who have had very young and attractive women pursue them. In all sincerity, does it become sa because something innappropriate happened and why is it that the women in these cases so far that I have heard, all seem to be the victims yet no one wants to ask why a 19 year old woman was spending time with a 40yo married man????
I’m not judging either way, but I can’t help but feel in my spirit that this may be an attack against the church of God.
Clearly men of God need to be more wise and not ever be alone with women that are not their wives. It is only an opportunity for the devil to tear down m.
Yea... For SA, public schools are #1, but religious institutions are #2. It's disengenous for you to leave that fact out.
I don't think, so, I could be wrong, but, I think it's still family members, relatives, or, close friends, unfortunately. Then the other two you mentioned.
@@sandragambrel9721 #1 and #2 for places. Not people. People at public schools and religious institutions are often aquatinted, friends, and family. Which is why as places they are #1 and #2.
@@Floormat212 My point is that 90% of sexually abused children are done by people they love, and trust, and the "where" can vary greatly. Thanks.
Julie Roys is biased at times
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17.
And what is Dr. Michael Brown talking about when the devil came in, obviously the devil has been in the leadership and congregation; don't misunderstand me we're all sinners saved by God's grace and mercy through the blood of the Lamb of God (Jesus our Lord) the only Begotten Son of God. Yet it's obvious that these churches are just that, the "pastor's" church and not lead but the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't have a church, oh I know what ya say semantics Right, No facts. Dr Brown is not to be trusted, he has a double mind. I don't know him personally but I've heard enough. MacArthur, Jakes, Olsteen, Copeland, Duplantis and countless other teach the law of Moses especially as it pertains to tithing. I don't trust trust them but of all MacArthur has preached more biblical, I'm not the judge but I judge what I see and Brown is not to be trusted.
I like how you block my comments RUSElan so i cannot reply to others.
That's okay we both know you're only doing this to make money rarely do I hear you share the gospel...J do hear you call out biblical pastors while promoting charismatic teaching which all Holy Spirit filled believers know is corrupt and not Christianity.
I'll make a video about you and all the clips of your heresy
For the love of God keep young single men out of youth ministry until 27
Our frontal lobes between 25-27 come fully in
Until then we are adults but not much different than teens in some areas .
Educate young men too of their weakness in that area.
Encourage marriage as well ....
I've seen some idiots who werent predators but actually fell in love wuth slightly younger teen giels when theyre barely adults themselves.
Im not and will never excuse S.A but some times its not S.A its a slight age difference that's illegal technically and then a scorned woman.
Dr Brown looks like he is wearing foundation and lipstick! 😮
You always have to make sure you throw in a jab at John MacArthur, don't you, Ruslan?
Was it John MacArthur, who is the head Pastor of 50+ years that was accused of something?
NO!
Then that has nothing to do with the story you're talking about here, because this guy is the head pastor.
I'm beginning to think John MacArthur's sound biblical teachings on core issues really rubs you the wrong way doesn't it?
I was subscribed to you then I unsubscribed because of something similar to this but I thought I would give you another chance but he continued on.. is it because John MacArthur is a millionaire and you charging upwards of $5,000 to have one-on-ones with you hasn't quite got you there yet?
John MacArthur can teach sound doctrine and still make mistakes in judgement (which I believe have been well documented). Obviously that would be the issue, not the doctrine. But charging 5000 for a one on one is pretty goofy, I agree.
John McArthur has his own history of covering up sexual and physical abuse in his own church for members/elders under his own leadership. Proven legal charges in which said members were legally proven to be guilty, went to jail for it and John never repented for his part in the horrendous handling of said abuse when he was made aware of it, nor did he renounce the behavior he knew of and HIS actions of excommunicating the ABUSED victim from his church fellowship. So he is not as squeaky clean as you might be aware of.
Maybe you didn't know about that?
@@justinhawes1593 John Macarthur was not accused of any sexual misconduct. But RUSElan throws his name in this video hoping people will conflate the Pastor and Sexual scandal in this video with John Macarthur himself.
I can name quite a few Charismatic Pastors caught in sexual scandals. In fact, most sexual scandals within the church involve Charismatic Pastors.
The fact that he always attacks John Macarthur leads me to believe RUSElan is a wolf in sheep's clothing. They mix truth with error and are only making "Christian" videos to get rich. It's most certainly NOT because he cares about people's souls. The fact that he charges so much to have one-on-one and is constantly trying to push his product in the middle of every video even when he most likely cannot even read the original Greek demonstrates this is nothing more than a get-rich scam.
He tried going up against Allen Parr on the use of tongues and was schooled BIGTIME.
Just be careful watching his videos. Very shortly he will start to slowly lead people away from sound biblical teaching(which he has already started) and eventually Jesus Himself
@@justinhawes1593 John Macarthur was not accused of any sexual misconduct. But RUSElan throws his name in this video hoping people will conflate the Pastor and Sexual scandal in this video with John Macarthur himself.
I can name quite a few Charismatic Pastors caught in sexual scandals. In fact, most sexual scandals within the church involve Charismatic Pastors. The fact that he always attacks John Macarthur leads me to believe RUSElan is a wolf in sheep's clothing. They mix truth with error and are only making "Christian" videos to get rich. It's most certainly NOT because he cares about people's souls.
The fact that he charges so much to have one-on-one and is constantly trying to push his product in the middle of every video even when he most likely cannot even read the original Greek demonstrates this is nothing more than a get-rich scam. He tried going up against Allen Parr on the use of tongues and was schooled BIGTIME. Just be careful watching his videos. Very shortly he will start to slowly lead people away from sound biblical teaching(which he has already started) and eventually Jesus Himself
All I can say is, he's not the same preacher I listened to on the radio 25-30 years, ago.
I hop is a cult
Dr brown just moved right in on uou young people him and his stupid books
This happens a little too often with in the church. There is a really good eye opening book written by Diane Langberg Suffering and the Heart of God. She is a Christian Physiologist who deals with young ladies traumatized by sexual assault. She even counsels church leaders on how to address this within the church and from a Godly perspective. It's heartbreaking some of the stories she shares from her experiences from dealing with patients. Very informative and would recommend reading. It discusses trauma from assault and stories within the church as well. It's very unfortunate. Abuse like this can really derail people and cause a life time of pain. I pray God brings healing to all those that are involved.
Unfortunately, Diane Langberg is a leading promoter of the discredited repressed memory movement. Many people have suffered counseling abuse from this practice. The best book for Christians to read is, Second Thoughts, How the False Memory Crises Could Affect You, by Dr. Paul Simpson. Once a leading advocate of repressed memory therapy (RMT), and after training over 5000 law enforcement personnel on how to recognize signs of Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA), he eventually saw his patients were getting worse, not better and hundreds of thousands of families were being destroyed because of false accusations of abuse. In perhaps the greatest act of Christian repentance I have ever seen, he contacted all of his former patients and explained he had contributed towards, directly or indirectly, implanting false hypnotic images of abuse in their minds. Some families were restored, some not.
An ancillary effect of this movement is that it directed attention away from true victims of abuse.
Another recommended book is, The Myth of Repressed Memories, by Elizabeth Loftus. She is widely regarded as the World’s leading expert on false memories, and is perhaps the most decorated woman phycologist in history.
Respectfully, you may want to consider increasing your knowledge on the subject prior to further recommendations.
Clearly, you have an interest in heart breaking stories. Perform a RUclips search on Tom Rutherford and false recovered memories. His family was nearly destroyed by this irresponsible therapy.
Say it with me: SEXUAL ABUSE
If he says it straight out the YT filter picks up on the word and can penalize the channel for inappropriate topics. That's what happens when you have a software program in charge of scanning the content you are trying to keep clean of trashy content. The content creators have to work around the problem.
@@Butterfly-truth oh man.... 🙄
The pentecostal denomination and the off shoots of it have done much damage to Christianity.
All denominations have had that problem, though, as they're created and run by human beings and not by God.
At this point I'm completely dismissing any SA accusation outside of the past 5 years
What a joke. This has been ongoing for YEARS with multiple victims and multiple members from staff. How about you do some research before dismissing SA within Mike’s church - especially from him.
We know for a fact that he did all of this. Every single one of his spiritual sons (Allen Hood, Corey Russell, Wes Martin, etc) and many of his CLOSEST ministry friends for years (Sam Storms) and many who were directly involved w IHOP and its network by extension (Joel Richardson, Lee Cummings) have come out and said that he is absolutely guilty. You do not have all of this come out from some of the people closest to the church and some of his closet people in ministry on scant evidence. I've been following it for months. He is 100000% guilty, and IHOP just admitted they handled it badly and he did do all of it several days ago.
@@hardcore907exactly. Some of the people closest to Mike and IHOP have said that he absolutely did it and are calling for him to public own it
@@hardcore907 when the left stops using lawfare to attack their political opponents, I will retract this statment. However when you have states like NY signing in legislation on the low just to then go attack Trump, we have an issue, and its lawfare. Watch what happens to Lakewood, just watch. I bet the whole thing was a setup to get some lawfare going to shut it down.
@@UltraX34 100% 💪 and by “handled it badly”, what they should have said was, “Our ministry should be permanently burned to the ground for what we’ve done, we’ll never make up for it. May God have mercy on our souls.” Even current leaders are outright ignoring the victims.
i.e. Letting people voice their problems, former rape victims coming forward and then them writing them off all together. Absolutely insane.
SARGENT SCHULTZ?? 😮 HIM EXPOSING SCANDAL?? THANKS A LOT MAN!? 😢