Everything WRONG With The Guns In Starfield
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
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Bethesda has a track record for making absolutely horrendous gun designs in their videogames, especially with the guns from Fallout 4. With their newest release, Starfield, they've introduced even more atrocities for us to examine. At the same time, there's some genuinely good fantasy firearm designs, but even then, none of them are perfect. For this video, I'll be comparing these guns to their real life inspirations and then rank them based on their overall design. You guys may be familiar with Johnathan Ferguson from the Expert Reacts series who briefly covered these guns, but for this video, I'll be going much deeper and really focus in on their functionality and art direction.
My Discord : / discord
0:00 Intro
1:11 1911
3:45 XM-2311
4:06 AK
5:27 VSS Vintorez
6:40 Mutated Pump Shotgun
9:19 IMMERSION
10:29 Maelstrom
13:15 Kraken
14:40 Caseless Ammo??
15:58 Eon
17:31 Ueagle
19:48 Sidestar
21:37 Regulator
23:19 Rattler
24:58 Coachman
26:33 Lawgiver
28:22 [REDACTED]
31:14 Razorback
32:21 Space P90
33:14 Beowulf
36:11 Hard Target
37:27 Drum Beat
39:06 Kodama
40:21 Shotty
41:55 Pacifier
43:29 Breach
45:02 AA-99
45:55 Microgun
48:38 Review 
Игры
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BrandyBoy, Bethesda had higher aspirations and the Quik Kit Bash Rifle is what we got instead.
Bethesda ran out of time. Assault Rifle, the SMG, and the way the Combat Rifle and Combat Shotgun are what we're left with as a result of running out of time. Had they started working on what it was when Fallout 4 was first starting to be made and not toward the end, we would've gotten way more than what we got if they had been working on their idea and plans from the beginning instead of toward the end.
Bethesda's original intention for the Combat Rifle was to have it be an interchangeable system. Convert into a Marksman Configuration, a Battle Rifle Configuration, a Shotgun Configuration, a SMG Configuration. There are unused Weapon assets in Fallout 4's files for the Combat Rifle for a Pistol Grip, Thumbhole Pistol Grip type Skeleton Stock, Long Heavy Barrel, a certain very distinct Muzzle Break, and different sizes of Magazine for different Calibers. The original source of the assets for the Combat Rifle were from the DKS-550, which was the Sniper Rifle in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
Hell the way the SMG (Thompson) was going to be used and setup originally was differently planned. It was originally supposed to be found mostly on the Gangster NPCs in Fallout 4. There were supposed to be more quests involving the Gangsters, they were also supposed to be a miner faction. Plans change, and we get the short end of the stick.
The batteries on the weapon are for igniting the propellant. Most of the big blocks on those guns that are useless are batteries for igniting the propellant, similar to that of the Metal Storm.
18:53
Bethesda: This is a round bullet. Can you guess which hole that goes in?
Players: The circle hole?
Bethesda: That's right. It goes in the square hole.
The best reference
I could hear that in my head
@@Charlie-dx6bv including the screaming protests
I was thinking the same thing the entire time
Todd Howard has done it again folks!!
I just realized that some of the barrel holes are square because the designer thought the caseless ammo fires the whole bullet
Tf is goin on at Bethesda man
@@Ivor8 diversity and inclusion, that's what's going on
@@Chretze that clearly isn't the issue as the decline started way before inclusion was profitable, and by saying it is you give Bethesda dick riders ammunition to write off all criticism of the company and its products as anti-woke rhetoric. If you want something better you need to be organized with your criticisms instead of screaming into that anti-woke echo chamber that the marketing department conveniently built for you. Don't fall into that trap.
...caseless ammo does fire the whole bullet because that's literally what comes out of the barrel. I'm guessing you meant the whole cartridge?
@@Ivor8 idk mate, these games aren't nearly important enough for me to warrant any further investment of my energy into crafting more fitting arguments about their shortcomings.
They do commit to diversity and inclusion and all the other woke nonsense and pointing that out is exactly the level of quality response these muppets deserve.
There is exactly nothing wrong with anti-woke rhetoric so if blue touchy blue haired queers complain about it then let them who cares, I won't even pretend as if their opinions matter to me
This weapon design makes me think that it wasn’t just the landscapes that were procedurally generated
Probably, the amount of useless tubes and junk in the guns are unnatural.
Even Borderlands gets the guns both looking and functioning right!
Even no man's sky multi tools look more functional than these guns
@@emojothejojo hit the nail on the head. Bethesda needs to die out and sell their big IPs off. Their biggest fans are because of fallout and elder scrolls but theyve been ignoring us for 10 years almost for fallout and 13 years for elder scrolls.
They had ai generate a gun model then they just went and made certain parts slide around and rotate after the fact.
Clearly the designers for Bethesda’s weapons are 40k orks.
The guns work off of nothing but hopes and dreams, like how the 1911’s hammer doesn’t actually move
ork guns make more sense
@@gobi7959 ……………………..shit you’re right.
@@gobi7959Guns that are only operated by force users vs. magically made weapons, honestly I side with the orks weapons.
Orks dakkas at least looks cool and paint in sick colors.
You missed 1 thing about the AK: The selector is set to semi-auto yet it fires in full-auto.
That's it. I demand a refund
@@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy Glad I didn't buy this dumpster fire
those weapons on semi auto are a bethesda culture now bro
@@generallee1863This game feels Ai generated, i swear these Pea-Brains know nothing about firearms and still decided to make a FPS.
@@spider-man4460 I think Butt-thesda has the worst weapon modeling team of any AAA company on the planet.
The 1911 is literally missing the pins that hold the whole thing together. Firing it once should make it immediately turn into a game of 1911 Parts Pickup.
honestly that sounds like a great idea for a joke mod, super op gun that fires 1 round then all of its parts scatter across the map
There's a game for that, Disassembly.
@@lookstothetroon "scatter across the map" As in the 1911 parts all float up to the sky and boost off in different directions like the dragon balls?
@@BreakdancePeach I mean I was more on about just the physics engine bugging out and causing them to launch into the sky, but that works too
@@lookstothetroon After collecting all 7 parts, the great dragon Godd Howard comes down to grant a wish.
You wish for better guns from Bethesda. Unfortunately, Todd's model is too big and starts colliding with the terrain geometry before falling out of bounds. You never get your wish.
My best guess is that Bethesda has a small team of 2-3 people designing the guns and another 2-3 people who animate the use of the weapons. Both teams do not communicate and they are both inexperienced with real life functionality and use.
That could really be the case yeah, the whole game from mapping, voice acting, gun design, sound design feel disjointed and disconnected... Resulting in Starfield feeling soulless and uninspired. Maybe that whole no design documents argument holds some weight.
Honestly that sounds like the most logical reason for it.
Also given how much other shit in the game is bugged out, I expect weapon animations were far down the priority list
Metro Exodus had only 6 people total just focusing on making their scrap guns actually functional if they were to be made in real life, which makes me wonder why Bethesda can't make their guns that aren't made out of bad parts look like they work. It's also relevant for Fallout 4, though... pipe guns make me unreasonably angry.
For all these games that have such a high focus on guns, you'd think they'd have hired at least ONE person who knows how guns work
Having spent time working in the industry, I can assure you that you're likely far more correct than you can possibly imagine.
"How do we make futuristic looking guns?"
"I don't know, just stick completely pointless things on it"
My favorite thing about the caseless guns is the cases they eject.
Yeah. Why call the rounds caseless and then eject a massive case?
Beth is so tardy
@jarowan Science.
They just eject the round like wtf
They also have the bullets still attached and are round, not squarish like the barrels lol@@Cracker_Smacker
I find it wild that Bethesda can get weirdly specific details down like telescoped and caseless ammo but fails to animate the breach of a pump action
The artists are working with reference images of real weapons and weapon parts but don't understand how they are put together or function. Even if they did have somewhat of an understanding of guns, they had the job of designing ones which look quite different from the guns they would be familliar with. Most likely at a pace which would be challanging even for someone with extensive engineering experience. So they did what they could to hopefully make the guns look right enough to get a pass from the average player who doesn't obsess about the details of the fictional guns in their videogame. And lets be honest, they succeeded at that.
@@NeiZaMo Even then, it's still wild. Caseless ammunition is a detail that the average player probably wouldn't notice or care about since most sci-fi games use cased ammunition anyway. It's just bizarre that they can get cool, tiny little details like that right and then mess up major details on real world guns that they, as video game gun designers, should probably know by default.
@@water1374 they obviously did some research before designing the guns and it's not that hard to stumble over the concept of caseless ammunition while skimming Wikipedia for ideas on how to design a futuristic looking gun. Also I doubt Bethesda has people solely dedicated to designing guns. They probably have a bunch of "prop designers" not "video game gun designers".
the writers do a bunch of research to build the setting, hand those details to the modelling team who implement them as part of the design. Thats how you get these weirdly accurate details on otherwise complete hogwash
@@NeiZaMo Even another shit AAA company like ubisoft can at least get guns modeled right. It's no excuse for the lack of knowledge, they just chose not to care enough.
Calling a VSS a hunting rifle is like calling a landmine a beartrap. It's absurd.
“Ancient race of Californians” that was fucking too funny and true😂
They asked from their tribal shaman to summon a nuclear winter supposedly.
You missed something on both the 1911 and 2311: The hammer doesn't drop when it fires. It's permanently locked back.
Dangit. gonna have to put it in F tier now
@@ItsYaBoyBrandyBoy also the cylinder in regulator doesn't go full circle but rotates left, then right and so on
Tbh in real life visually you won't notice the hammer drops because a military second afterward the gun fires and redrops the hammer
@@jeambeam3173 Yeah, but it should be part of the weapon draw animation, right? I know it's safe to carry a 1911 cocked and locked, but this is a game. Cocking the slide on drawing-as if you were carrying with the hammer down on an empty chamber-is more common in games because it looks cooler.
Nah, that's not even the worst part about it. I can forgive that as part of the tons of random graphical quirks of the game. What's really insane to know is what happens to two metals of the same type pressed against each other in a vacuum.
Look up "cold welding" when you have the chance. That gun being exposed to vacuum and not being coated in some type of supertech gun oil is going to result in all of the mechanical parts fusing together as the oxidation on the surfaces gets worn off by regular use.
Starfield: the only game where the lore of how weapons work changes depending on whether you're in first or third person
Wow 149 people liked that. We have waaaay more work to do around here.
The whole thing reeks of burnout, crunch and devs who couldn’t be bothered anymore :( I kinda feel bad for the ones who had to suffer through this
@@Maddock_ more like smart lazy people who know you and the other gaymers will just pre order your slop.
@@Sakattack2023?
@@Sakattack2023 Rent free, huh?
Bethesda definitly knows that a pistol is different from a revolver. Because when Deacon hands you tommy whisper's weapon, he calls it a "Handcannon"
Can we talk about the sheer, ultra-luger grip angle of EVERY FUTURISTIC PISTOL?
part of the problem with caseless ammo is that the brass cases of traditional rounds actually do act as a heat sink
wave it away as space magic, say something along the lines of "oh the gas holds heat really well so when the bullet is fired it ejects most of the heat too"
The real problem is cookoffs are really common and hard to prevent when the powder is touching the hot chamber.
And to make it more stupid, they're one of the few methods of cooling that actually do work in a vacuum
Yeah. They keep trying with caseless ammo but it just doesn't work in the conditions the military needs it to. Bad weather? Ammo ruined. The G11 was a technological marvel that could deliver a 3-round burst downrange so fast that the user would not even feel the recoil until the burst completed, but it was sunk by its own ammunition.
Something many of us have experienced when getting them into the sleeve.
The funniest thing i found about the 1911 is the fact the hammer doesnt strike, or cycle at all, it just stays put in one place. So, how it shoot? Nobody knows, thats the scary part.
When you squeeze the trigger, John Moses Browning's spirit rise from the grave and scare the bullet into detonating itself
Space magic
It just works
Something something Todd Howard
Highly modified 1911 that works in space
They asked if I had a degree in theoretical gun design. I said I have a theoretical degree in gun design, they said welcome aboard.
It is insane Bethesda spent months, if not years developing these weapons and they didn't once google what caseless ammunition once. That's mind boggling.
Another thing about the Old Earth Shotgun: the pump partially blocks the ejection port when pumping it back, so the gun wouldn't be able to eject or would do so very inconsistently.
the pump is way to close to the back its why all shotguns have pumps up front coz they use a slide to slide the chamber back but why not use the jackhammer shotgun looks a lot cooler and futuristic looking plus its a drum shotgun and semi auto
@locki9969 Well, I think one 1 of those was ever made IRL, so realistically, it makes little sense. Was cool in BF3 though.
@@locki9969 ah yes the totally working and reliable weapon that was never produced because it was so stupid. Honestly, I’d do a gussied up AA12 instead, still looks a bit sci-fi and fits the shotgun role and has a high fire rate, though to show it was old gun, you’d probably want a pump, lever action, or double/single barrel.
Also if you put a short barrel mod on it the tube will become shorter but the capacity doesn't change...
The grenade launcher is a more faithful model of a shotgun than the shotgun is 😀
i used to own a mossberg 500 with that style of pump handle, it looks like they modeled the gun off of a shotgun that had the pump handle pulled back, later realized its way too far back to make a good animation with, jerryrigged this stupid pump-forward animation like its a Neostead, and called it a day because they couldnt give a shit about how it worked because this is bethesda we're talking about
I found a sleeping bag out on the surface of Venus in this game. That's all you need to know.
What, you leave your sleeping bag at home when you travel to Venus?
@@johncastillo2194I just buy a new one when I get there honestly
@johncastillo2194 Last time I slept on Venus it was way too warm for me, so I don't bother with the bag any more.
@@highadmiralbittenfield9689 I usually just use a pillow and a sheet anymore. It's too hot for a full blanket.
@@JimTheCuratorthat's why venus has water again... it's the sweat from me using a blanket
Even non-american children know the way the shotgun pump goes
27:43 quality control is like an oxymoron when you talk about Bethesda
A point on the Maelstrom: Y'all are forgetting Bethesda still thinks smaller number means less damage. It's why they believe a 45 acp round is more damaging than NATO 7.62, or that the 5mm round in a minigun is less damaging than NATO 5.56.
they need to hire at least one dude that knows a tiny bit about how guns work, or at least a guy to google this shit lol
The 5mm round used in miniguns and the assault carbine in FNV is an intermediate round that is less powerful than 5.56. I still have no idea where the fuck the idea for that round popped out of given 5.56 is a thing in the first place.
@@kikichevy I think that it's a homage to Fallout 1/2, where developers didn't know or didn't care, and both minigun and assault rifle (named AK-112 in game, of all things) used 5mm ammo. But honestly, it is more of monkeying a stupid decision at this point.
Alternatively, Bethesda could figure out at some point that minigun with real 5.56 ammo will have too much recoil to be usable on foot, so they decided to make it use another weaker ammo. Which kind of makes sense, except it doesn't because weaker ammo mean less effect and miniguns are not effective when used like this, a high caliber machinegun will be MUCH better in every aspect.
@@serker3138 the enemy will still be spooked into going for cover if used for supressing fire. that is if they don't realize your shooting nerf and nothing.
@@serker3138 there's no reason why the same round couldn't be used in both a minigun and a service rifle- in fact, the real M134 Minigun fires 7.62x51 NATO, the same round as the M14 battle rifle. The only point of contention is the weapon being marked 'assault rifle', which by strict definition should indicate it as firing an intermediate cartridge.
I think the extra hole on the front of the U-Eagle is an integrated Zip22. It's jammed, like every Zip22, explaining why it's non-functional.
the "shotty" also looks like a modified zip22 lmao
My introduction to the zip22 was through cruelty squad
It looks like they tried to cram the bolt carrier group recoil spring and rod, and gas tube of an ak into a pistol, but didn't know what the gas tube was for, so poked a hole in the end.
The collectible revolver line must be a reference to fallout 4, when Jack Cabot gives you the artifact gun, and calls it a laser rifle that uses standard fusion cells, when it is, in fact, a gamma gun that uses gamma rounds.
so I think the reason for the battery on a lot of the caseless weapons is that instead of a hammer striking a primer, it uses a kind of system that ignites the external propellant via an electrical output. I know it's likely making sense of a question Bethesda never asked (i.e. how do we visually convey or otherwise explain how our weapons work?), but it's the best explanation I've got. And it's at least a consistent enough feature on enough guns that I feel at least some of the designers had this idea in mind.
I thought that electric battery is somehow the one feeding ammo instead of sliders.
for the AK, I guarantee they added the polymer handguard to the gun because they didn't want to make a custom animation where the character's grip adjusts to the width of every hanguard for every gun and as a result the charactar model would be "ghost holding" the normal AK handguard pretty badly. They added a polymer hanguard to it to "fill out" the gap and used the tape as a hand-wave explanation.
Dude I think you're exactly right. Same Animations since fallout 4 almost 8 years ago
Yep complete laziness.
And that also perfectly lines up with them being very lazy.
I'd agree with that, with a potential in-game reason for the taped-on handguard is that it's there to accomodate users who are wearing space suits (with big chonky gloves)
holy shit i think you're onto something
One thing you forgot about the Regulator is that the cylinder rotates clockwise for one shot and then counter clockwise for the follow-up shot. This means you are magically firing the same 2 bullets that just re-materialized in those 2 specific cylinder holes 😂
Maybe it's two Maybe it's two tube mags that load every other cycle
What is this? Quake 1's nailgun?
The effect of them simply mirroring the 3D model of the weapon to make the second half.
Regulator is a slightly modified version of the gun from 1980s movie Bladerunner, also found in the dinosaur inside Novac in Fallout NV.
@@johnteslov5870 THAT gun from FNV is awesome compared to that trash whatever bethesda is cooking
Starfields guns look like the wacky nonfunctional ones i used to draw with crayon as a kid
LMAO
"Nyet. Rifle is fine"
Dude, that's hilarious
I bet the character calling the 1911 a revolver is because they originally planned for you to get a revolver there but changed it to the 1911 after the voice acting was done
yeah, that's what i figure happened as well
Sooo the idea that the dad miiight be an uninformed 24th century person who doesn't know his guns is out of the question?
yes @@masgaz9748
Lol, Well I hope that's what happened.
@@masgaz9748still pretending this is the correct answer because it is objectively better
Itd be nice if Game Designers were more like Kojima, he literally took his design team to America from Japan so they can familiarize themselves with how firearms work. Thats passion and commitment to your craft plus im sure the crew had a unforgettable experience
Kojima himself seemed to have quite a fascination with guns, too which likely helped
Case in point, that scene in MGS3 where Snake basically rambles about the specs of a 1911(?) that was *just* handed to him
@@Eli_Guy Big Boss was more exited about all the gun modifications than a half naked woman infront of him. He is one hell of a gun nerd lol.
American companies are too busy making "diverse and non hostile work environments" to be actually spending time hiring competent staff with the HR department being run by twittards and ex tumblr users, where as Japanese does not give a fuck about how or what you think of the workplace, you get shit done or get fired + their craftsmanship spirit and the rest is history.
Taking your design team to a whole other country to study how firearms operate firsthand vs not even giving some guns a trigger is a crazy commitment difference.
Hilarious since there’s probably 5 ranges within 20 minutes of Bethesda HQ
You should make a "Everything Wrong with the Guns in Cyberpunk" video.
I think it'd be interesting to see your take on non-bethesda guns, and, imo, how they manage to skirt the line of futuristic believability a lot better.
joshua graham and john wick from fortnite jokes at the beginning were funny as hell
One thing that bothered me immensely is that on both the 1911 and the XM-2311, the hammer doesn't strike anything, it just stays cocked back.
I can accept that one, on many game engines it can look really buggy to try to have the hammer move at its real speed, and the odds that someone will pause on the right frame to see it move are slim.
Also why does the frame under the barrel slide back with the slide?
@@lifes2short4aname That part is accurate. 1911 slides have a bit at the front that does go around the barrel. When you take one apart, you remove the pin in the side of the weapon, and that allows the slide to move forward, and off of the gun.
@@FarlerAlarm oh right, haha I forgot. I think I was remembering back to playing with some kind of replica that the slide didn't go around the barrel
@@lifes2short4aname It happens! It's not something most people would even think about. The Beretta M9 has something similar looking, and it doesn't move with the rest of the slide.
EDIT: I was actually wrong about the Beretta. It's just like the 1911. 😂
Regarding the Lawgiver, I don't think the devs realized what a terrible idea it is to have your _rifle_ sight on a moving part. The accuracy would be absolutely terrible.
With massive improvements in materials, precision machining, and assembly methods perhaps the sight can be guaranteed to remain accurate.
At what cost, I suppose they would simply charge more for such fine machining. Most of these abominations seem like the gun companies just wanted to charge more for their guns.@@adamofblastworks1517
@@adamofblastworks1517yea the problem is having your eye keep up
@@adamofblastworks1517 There is no way to guarantee that anything mechanical will remain accurate. You would need ludicrously small tolerances to make this work and the smaller the tolerance is, the more likely it is to break. You see this all the time in F1, where the engines have extremely tight tolerances to achieve insane performance, but they also malfunction all the time. As soon as the mechanism gets even slightly fouled, it's fucked.
To counteract this you'd need all kinds of additional systems and computer components (how else are you going to automatically correct the positioning) and all this effort is to get around a problem you created for a feature that provides absolutely no benefit.
@@adamofblastworks1517 Overdesigning your gun with multiple moving parts to solve a small problem that was figured out the moment people started to create self loading firearms is a pretty big miss and as the other guy said, it would break easily and be unreliable.
As someone who's not familiar with guns and trying to learn how to do Weapon design at the moment for a personal project, this was extremely insightful!! I'd love to see you tackle other game franchises and their weapon designs!!
a topic i am not personally interested in for a game i do not care about, so of COURSE i'm watching the whole thing multiple times over
Another oddity with the old earth hunting and assualt rifle is that when the player removes the magizine they don't even bother trying to use the mag release and just yank the magazine out, which would be impossible with the real world counterpart.
Literally unplayable
Literally unplayable
Literally unplayable
LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE
Metaphorically playable
I'm surprised he didn't mention it, the regulator revolver cylinder seems to rotate then rotate back, it NEVER fully rotates all the way around.
Yeah I was gonna comment about that. Like I was like “maybe it like takes bullets in and rotates them up to the top?” But then i saw that it had 8 bullets in the cylinder and uh yeah. How does it do that.
There's also a further issue you forgot to brought up about caseless ammo overheat, in relation with Starfield's setting. With normal ammo, ejected casings also carry away the heat of cartridge detonation inside the chamber, preventing the gun from overheating (they're essentially disposable heatsink). With caseless, the heat still retained inside the gun since there's no ejecting casings to carry heat away. However, in Starfield, since the game takes place in space setting, this overheating problem gets significantly even worse, since you could end up in situation where you don't always have an ambient atmosphere as a heat medium to cool the gun (especially in vacuum) or the planets' atmospheric condition have different heat conductivity (realistically, the gun would overheat faster the closer the planet is to the sun and slower the farther it is). No matter how much the cartridge technology improves in Starfield, that's still a detonation happening inside the gun and still generates heat. I don't think caseless ammo's advantage is worth the disadvantage, especially on space setting. People tend to put it in video games because it sounds cool instead of being actually fit or sensible to put in
for a company to spend so much time on it, they really did so little on the overall game. A quick google search can easily solve this issue, how is Bethesda operating still?
First time seeing the guns, so just wanted to write my thoughts.
About the Eon - the obvious thought that i came up with is that it's electric operated gun - the brick under the barrel being the battery that powers it up, and i think it has enough space behind the assumed chamber location to have some sort of motorized bolt contraption. The opening top-cover doesn't even expose the barrel itself, but just the "middle cover", and even if it's used for some sort of manual operation mechanism that is for some reason is needed for the reloading procedure because the sci-fi gun clearly can't chamber the round as soon as the mag is sticked in, it's just outlandishly THICK. So myself i would maybe place it at C, weird, but potentially okay.
Sidestar - my best guess that the big pile of independently moving stuff is some sort of sophisticated recoil dampening system.
And the "old shotgun" scorched my eyes and brain, thanks.
The most ludicrous part about the microgun is that it literally has a damn *_pistol_* as the trigger. It literally looks like the entire microgun *_is an accessory to the pistol!_*
When you fully upgrade the starter weapon
@@tdpuuhailee8222LMAO
Oh god you can even see it in the hud sillouhette.
"NOOOOO!!! MY FICTIONAL GAME HAS FICTIONAL WEAPONS SINCE THE GAME IS A PIECE OF FICTION"
@@ripadblock i dont want my fiction to be realistic, i want my fiction to be believable.
As a former armorer, this video has scarred me in ways I never would have imagined. No game's guns has baffled me as much as what I'm hearing about Starfield. That's magic.
"It just works"
91F or 2111?
To be fair just looking at Fallout 3 and 4 guns is pretty baffling too.
300+ years old 1911 is somehow better than brand new high-tech space guns.
It just makes sense!
There are plenty of games that do it worse than this, TF2 for example, if you're thinking "but tf2 guns aren't meant to be realistic" then u don't know how how bad they are, gameplay-wise they're great often tho
The maelstrom's ammo counter amazes me because its supposed to be super futuristic but apparently a sausage-thick chord is needed to attach a motion sensor to a seven-segment display
Magazine Fed Revolver is an interesting idea if you can somehow stock one magazine while the cylinder is also full. You can reload mags one at a time when not under stress, and double dump the full load of ammo when you run into something serious.
I imagine the devs probably googled telescoped ammo, saw it was square and decided well the barrel must be square then since the entire bullet and casing obviously comes out of the gun
Tbh I like the vibes of the blocky barrel.
fr how hard is it to find a gun enthusiast that will help them design the guns?
There's a ton of people who would do it FOR FREE, just because they love seeing guns in games be accurate.
But even if they were paid a regular consulting salary, that's hardly gonna break the bank.
@@Nerobyrne Because gun enthusiasts are, like, fascist... or something.
We all know the number one identifier of a fascist is their support of being able to defend oneself against the state, obviously.
They're racist too, because why not.
I jest, but i honestly wouldn't be surprised if this really is their logic.
seems legit
@@Nerobyrne They're content to wait for said gun enthusiasts to make mods that correct the guns
I remember how you could stuff a 50 cal into a pipe rifle in Fallout 4, but the bullet inside the gun looked like a 22 magnum, bethesda never changes
"The coachman is probably THE WORST incarnation of a double barrel I've ever seen in a video game."
Destiny 2 : hold my vex milk...
With the VSS, it might have been used for hunting because storage depots didn’t have propar inspection. The government dude would ask, “How many trucks do you have?”
You respond with, “Uhhh…150 or so.”
He wouldn’t go out and count each one. He would write down 150 trucks. Then he would ask, “How many snipers do you have?”
You respond with, “Uhhh…2,500 or so.”
He wouldn’t go out and count each one. He would write down 2,500 snipers.
This means you can sell the local farmer what you see as an old sniper but is actually a special forces DMR, you can sell the logging company a bunch of trucks, that friendly arms dealer some armory cars and guns, and a happy couple a box of grenades and a T-72 tank for their honeymoon, knowing the inspection person won’t care if you sold them.
Fallout 4’s most egregious sin was the sheer lack of different/unique firearm types, supposedly to encourage the weapon customization system.
Its worst sin was being boring as hell
true@@yikes6969
@@orange8175 Sin it's own exist
@@yikes6969I mean that's probably why there's so many mods for fallout 4 because of how boring it is without them.
The worst sin is that someone dare to even have thought about this. Just creating the idea on their hrad it's a sin by default
My favorite part about the regulator is how the cylinder alternates between rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise. Just... such a weird detail to include in the animation.
I came here to mention that. 3 guns later and I'm still stuck on that revolver that just cycles between 2 chambers over and over again.
I just witnessed that while reading this comment. I have so many questions, all of which can be answered by space magic
So glad I'm not the only one who was bothered by that. Like, they would have to go out of their way to animate it that way, right? It's not like they just set up the animation to rotate clockwise, they had to actively set it up to go in opposite directions after every shot.
I think it's supposed to be like Mauser BK-27 (which is a belt-fed revolver). But that still makes no sense because the main benefit of a revolver cannon over a more simple design is that you can crank up the fire rate - you can be firing, pulling cartridge off the belt and throwing out empty cases in paralel.
The only logical explanation as to why would anyone choose to make it work the way it works in game is to get past some fictional Assault Weapons Ban by abusing some fictional legal loophole, neither of which is ever brought up.
I want to write the IHNMAIMS AM speech about that “revolver” but I’m too lazy so I’ll just reference it.
But that’s how I feel about that fucking thing. Hate, HATE, *HATE,* with every nano-angstrom of my being.
One thing that I thought up a little while ago thinking about scifi weapons using caseless ammunition--and I'm sure I'm not the only one to ever think of this, either--is that you might help the heat management problem a bit more if you had some kind of non-metallic casing like the combustible casings modern tank ammunition uses, but instead of combusting and releasing more heat, it is a stiff material that decomposes endothermically.
That is, it "burns" and turns into a gas but absorbs heat when doing so. There are materials which exhibit such behavior in real life.
Basically, instead of having a metal casing that absorbs some heat before carrying that heat away when ejected, keeping that heat from going into the weapon, you have a casing that turns into a gas which then leaves the rifle through the barrel.
You get at least some of that heat sink effect while still eliminating a mechanical ejection cycle.
Realistically, one might worry about potential fouling such a thing would produce, and actually developing a fitting compound for such an application would be a miracle of chemistry, but we *are* talking about the far future after all.
5:35 probably not why they did it, but it'd be great worldbuilding if the future people got the uses of old earth guns wrong
You missed that the regulator doesn’t actually ‘revolve’ the cylinder just wiggles left and right
He also missed the part where when reloading the regulator the character flags their left hand.
That's apparently a pretty common thing in games
he also missed the ABISSMAL reload time of the drumbeat and the pointless holding of the charging handle towards the end of a reload
The amount of guns that have a random battery somewhere makes me wonder if they're fired electronically, and that just made Bethesda think they need AA batteries.
I hope we would have moved on from aa batteries by then. Im surprised we still use them in current day.
@@NeonBeeCatWhy?
Disposable batteries are inefficient @@U20E0
@@U20E0 most stuff you just charge or plug into the wall for example my controller has a charging station
@@violetdesiree601 you do realise that your controller still has a battery in it right
That looks like what people that hate guns think guns look like.
I, too, exclusively hunt with rifles that have an integrated supressor, like my trusty De Lisle Carbine, because I don't want to scare away the corpse of the animal I just shot.
The whole “collectible revolver” with the 1911 just shows how much “love” and “care” they put into the whole game,
that and also how they don't have a single gun literate person on the dev team which is actually really sad.
@@oceanbytez847 It makes more sense when you realize that Bethesda is based in Maryland, a predominantly blue state (most of which are actively against firearms ownership and refuse to educate themselves on firearms on the basis of "It doesn't matter, they should all be banned from civilian ownership!"). They likely only included guns because they're obligated to by the setting... which would explain a lot about how guns function in the Fallout games too.
Just like BFV's blatant revisionist view of WWII injected with modern politics makes sense when you realize the game was made by a bunch of relatively young developers (given the exodus the studio had after BF1) in Sweden - a country that historically refused to take a stand against the Nazis. Modern DICE is likely only making "war games" because that's what the original crew were passionate about and is what made the studio successful in the first place.
It's just like that one random ass Australian Kahn in NV
Not every npc on a game needs to know about weapons. Your dad in the game is a teacher, maybe he just called it revolver because he doesn't know better?
@@martinatanes A prime example of how people will bend over backwards to dismiss valid criticisms or justify objective flaws in the things they like.
I'm not a gun person at all, but I can tell he's going easy on bethesda. It makes sense since they're a small indie development company, though.
They're owned by Microsoft. Def not small.
@@zoratatsumaki9181That's the joke, Bethesda's games are the quality of like a 2-year passion project rushed out by a team of close high school friends as their first game ever, and it's unacceptable.
@@anstupid4093so what games are out there like starfield that have been made by high school friends? I’m genuinely curious lol
@@chrisstucker1813 ah, the Bethesda Defense Force showed up.
@@highadmiralbittenfield9689 so what games then?
I swear, this dude will immediately hate the entire borderlands series as soon as he sees the guns from those games. Might not be a possibility, but I have a feeling about it
Borderlands a silly fun universe, this is supposed to be realistic
@@Reac2 I said it as a joke damn
Stayed through the whole vid for the roasting alone, lol. Good stuff.
The 1911 'revolver' is likely down to the gun being given originally being something else, but the gun being replaced later on, without redoing the voice acting. An oversight for sure, but a very common one in larger scale games, voice acting being done before changes are made that makes the dialogue incorrect.
Yeah, I saw a clip of the same thing in Red Dead 2 where the va says it’s a revolver but it’s actually a flintlock
and it's sort of supposed to be a cowboy gun in context, so maybe they replaced it quite late. that would explain that missing part on the slide too, as it's probably just a purchased asset quickly thrown in. and they probably changed it because a revolver is probably quite hard to animate quickly.
@@dextrodemon They could have just used the animations from fallout 4/76.
No.
Example: “Old earth hunting rifle” aka VSS Vintorez
@@rustyrodgers7566 well, Collier was a revolver and a flintlock. There were also caplock pistols in reality but in game there is only one, belonging to Compson
"I don't think the developers gave any thought about how this gun would function." That's how I felt about literally every aspect of this game.
Not really… many aspects of the game are well done but there are some quirks, the guns have issues tho
@@DoktrDubgame feels like a pre-alpha build. The talent system is blasphemous , loading screens are ok to an extent but here they are so tedious, crafting and base building is non-existent thanks to how awful the inventory system is, you can’t know which cities are where in each system …you have to basically memorize the name of the system, every “main” planet or moon has one point of interest and the rest is just copy pasted stuff. This game made me worry about future bethesda games if this what they call quality now.
yeah it is really just insane for a 2023 game, ive seen mobile games with better gun design 😂
@@DoktrDub There's always someone trying to justify their mistake of a purchase. Just admit you got scammed by Todd, my dude.
Yes, I don't think the developers gave any thought to how the world will be in 2300. So they just put todays USA on space. Luckily for them, there's enough kids who won't notice.
Having 7 years to make a game and not being able to deliver on basically any aspect of the game is crazy bro, if ES6 is another Starfield I'm giving up on bethesda
Can we all just agree that "the gun ejects complete cartridges with bullets" is just lazy modeling, not actually a "game gun design sin"?
What I'll never understand is how a team put together by a huge company to design guns can consist entirely of people less capable of that job than random internet people who would correct the mistakes for FREE just out of irritation at their existence
The modders are the people who fix things for free, often out of annoyance
@@Hawk7886 true they're half of who I had in mind
Bethesda doesn't exactly hire people for their talent.
Bethesda doesn't care. Most of these animations and designs look like they had maybe one person who had seen a gun operate on RUclips a few years before and then tried to describe it to fresh faced college students who have only seen them in the games they play and on TV.
The concept art department also clearly had no communication with the animators. Everything is completely haphazard and reeks of executives and management telling people to just get it done and make it work as cheaply and rapidly as possible.
Plus, they know molders are just going to fix it for them later. Why should they bother?
They hire model artists who can whip up a model as quickly as possible and can make more than one kind of asset, they still need people to model every other asset in the game other than guns, so naturally most of modelers are going to be jacks of all trades (and by extension masters of none). The designs are a stylistic choice or trope to evoke the futuristic setting they're going for, it's easy to just slap a bunch of greeblies over an already recognizable gun (like a deagle or P90) than go through the process of designing a somewhat believable firearm. Too bad literally every futuristic setting uses the same tropes.
8:30 "This bug is _suspiciously_ similar to the bug seen with the 'Bullet counted reload' mod from Fallout 4, so I'm not sure if Bethesda just straight up ripped off this guy's mod or..." I can confidently assure you without a shred of evidence that this is the most likely scenario.
EDIT: Holy crap, thx for 1000 likes!
I so desperately want someone to look into this, i'm not one to like stirring drama, but i can't say i'm not salivating at the thought of bethesda straight ripping a mod for their game
It just works
If the only similarity is an unexpected animation cancel then it might require a look into the source code for both Starfield and the Fallout 4 mod to confirm what happened.
Is that a violation of some kind? It feels like it is illegal
But I could be wrong
@TheSilverCanine_R3D Maybe, depending on what the mod was licensed under? Though I doubt it was licensed at all, and even if it was, good luck proving that they actually ripped it off
Yaboy is gonna have a panic attack if he ever lays eyes on Team Fortress the second
"Old earth hunting rifle" could be a euphemism that just got lost to time. old Grandmother:"This is my old hunting rifle from earth, i want you to have it now." Child: "Grandma, which did the people from earth hunt with this rifle? it seems.... a little combat oriented." Grandma: "Oh, we hunted each other. I was once in a 3 day long battle of wits against a counter sniper team in-" Father:" MOM! NOW IS NOT THE TIME FOR THE 'HOW I MET YOUR GRANDPA STORY!'"
Child: " I have so many questions and none of them are about the rifle now...."
I like how the hammer isn't animated on the 1911. You can see it pretty clearly in the final footage you use before ranking it.
15:40 Slight correction, the G11 actually passed the tests for full scale adoption, but was never put into production for financial and political reasons (With the collapse of the USSR Germany gained truckloads of AKs + their no.1 threat was gone and the need for new rifles diminished, and there were also concerns about NATO standardisation)
also the fn created the p90 which made hk shit themselfs
This is why any game with firearms should at least have 1 member to validate the authenticity.
Okay there’s one thing that Bethesda did I agree with. AK gets hot af mag dumping. If you were in low atmosphere where nothing could radiate the heat away it would be smart to tape on another handguard because there would be no direct interface to conduct the heat.
Thank you for coming to my TEDx
While Aperture science turrets shoot the whole bullet (technically a cartridge), Starfield's guns shoot magic and eject the cartridge away.
1:37 The thing is I think the Old Earth Pistol was actually commissioned, and modified, to be the standard sidearm for the first wave explorers, so it was designed to be used by people wearing much older and chunkier suits. Or rather designed to be used with every spacesuit ever. It would still qualify as Old Earth being manufactured on Earth before it was lost.
That's a good headcanon!
Okay, but why use such an old gun design? By that time, the Beretta and Glock would've been much more readily available and much easier to modify and reproduce.
@@oneblacksun Because Two World Wars.
The Razorback at least looks good on the Cylinder front. It looks 3D printed, like you've got a printer that makes them in your pocket or something. You can definitely just throw one away and not worry.
When I looked at the regulator's cylinder I saw that when firing it turns one way and then turns the opposite way back to the previous empty area.
I think I noticed a couple more things:
For the two old-world semi-auto pistols, the hammer doesn't actually move. It just stays fixed in place and the gun magically fires without any primers being struck.
For the regulator, the cylinder never actually makes a full revolution; it rotates counter-clockwise once, then clockwise, over and over again, which means it would just be striking the same two cartridges without firing the other six.
Yeah the regulator cylinder rotation annoyed me so much
I'm really surprised he didn't say anything about it
Also the ak looks like it only has safe and semi modes
I don't think it's a revolver at all. The cylinder is just a weird magazine, and it's actually a semi automatic pistol that fires from an open bolt.
also noticed on the old earth hunting rifle the bolt carrier cycles but the bolt itself stays locked in place and doesn't move
I think the worst part about the Tombstone (apart from it really needing to be an SMG) is that if you replace the wood furniture with cheap-looking sheet metal or even scrap, it'd look like a reasonable budget or improvised gun
I'm trying to figure out how the Tombstone runs at all. Square caseless ammo in a pmag, and feed lips designed for brass.
My only regret watching this video is the missed opportunity of running around for an hour trying to figure out how I screwed up the cutscene where I'm supposed to get a revolver and didn't get one. I legit would've gone over that again and again being like "yes yes I know he gave me a 1911 but he said I was getting a revolver also, so where did it go?"
The point of mini gun spin up time isn’t just nebulous “balance” it’s to encourage the player to hold down on shooting rather than doing bursts because it adds to the character of the weapon
Something funny about the Razorback is how it has an ammo count for a 6 bullet gun with both a visual for the cylinder and a big number just in case the user forgets how to count to six
Its hard sometimes 😂
They sell these things to every schlub with the credits to pay. No licensing or training necessary. Whole thing about Laredo's in game lore is "Sturdy weapons to keep people alive on hostile planets." Makes sense they'd make the displays as idiot proof as possible.
♫ I can only count to four~ ♫
I imagine they were originally going to use the bolt rifle from Fallout 4 as the "Old Earth Hunting Rifle" but someone found a cooler looking rifle later on
The civilian version of the riffle is marketed as hunting riffle in Russia (Hunting is the only purpose civilian have right to own a riffle in Russia). It obviously do not have some of special forces military features like subsonic armor-piercing ammo, but the common and versatile caliber 7,62х39. it's suppressor is fake, but the barrel is twice longer, and it's semi-auto. It's called КО ВСС (Carbine Hunting VSS).
@@thewhite8uard sure, but this one in game isnt a civilian variant
its also not known for being a hunting rifle, which is why its such a weird choice. They could have called it "old earth special forces rifle" or something similar, rather than implying its a hunting rifle.
@@selectionn What makes you thinking the one in the game is not a civilian variant? If you look at fire rate comparing with the old earth assault riffle that's exactly civilian semi-automatic riffle.
@@thewhite8uard well, for one, as you yourself said, the civilian variant does not have a supressor, but in the game the weapon *is* supressed, and while not operable in game, the rifle does seem to have a fire selection switch to flip it to full-auto...
@@joelfilho2625 In fact, I'm wrong about suppressor. The suppressor is not fake, but the barrel is not perforated for gas release, and subsonic ammo is obviously not allowed. Anyway, I don't believe suppressors for hunting are forbidden in USA, if the riffle was marketed in USA it could have suppressor working. A fire selector is still needed for safety switch.
In fact there is usa-made clone of the riffle, THE SLAGGA Viska.
The person who named the VSS Vintorez in game was the only based developer in Bethesda, this was his last action before HR sent him to the Mojave
13:30 "i guess this ammunition just morphs between rifle and pistol size depending on the position of Murcury and Saturn" good lord this is great
I found the funniest part being that somehow there are a lot of VSS just sitting around several centuries after the end of the world despite already being extremely rare now. Would make more sense if it was an AR15 as the old world rifle
@@lumeronswift Not anymore. The AR-15's production numbers have overtaken the SKS. Last year Business Insider published an article showing there are 20 million AR-15 rifles in the United States and that's just the numbers in civilian hands, not counting police, paramilitary, and military. The highest estimate of SKS production is only 15 million rifles, and there are a lot more companies building AR-15s today than SKSs.
Of course, both guns are still far outnumbered by the top 3 guns that were most produced: the Mosin-Nagant rifle, the Gewehr 98 rifle, and of course, the AK-47 series.
I have a basement in an abandoned building we could clean.
B-b-but those are scwarie
I think it is on purpose. no way they can get it that bad on a booboo
Maybe the russians won after all, could explain some of these wierd guns.
You also have to love how the 1911 hammer never moves, even when the magazine is empty the slide doesn't lock and goes forward like there is another round with the hammer cocked.
The hammer would be cocked when the mag is empty on a real 1911. The slide coming back to eject the round resets the hammer, then if the slide hold-open is damaged (or the magazine isn't pushing on it hard enough, or if the gun is fired without a magazine), the slide returns forward with no round in the chamber and the hammer cocked. When it works as intended, the slide stays back over top of the hammer....with the hammer cocked.
Yeah what I meant was the slide wasn't locked open and the slide went forward with the hammer still cocked like there were was another round in the chamber, it looks very odd.
Somebody was paid a living wage to "professionally" create these models
Life is not fair kids
So I believe with the Rattler, they might've scooched the cylinder forward because of the foregrip. If your hand goes beyond the front of the cylinder, you could badly damage your hand because of the gasses and lead coming out when it's fired.
But the hilarious part is keeping that in mind, then the cylinder is STILL too far back. And if they move it any more forward without accommodating for the barrel, then - like you said - it's going to be horribly inaccurate.
So at that point, they should just turn it into a cylinder fed rifle or something :/
To be fair, the Beowulf outperforming the Grendel is literarily consistent considering how their fight goes in the poem
You mean the movie, right?
@@picardsolo2471 the movie was based off the poem
@@Business_Skeleton pretty sure we only read the poem because the movie got made. 3D boobs.
@@picardsolo2471most normal human interaction
@@picardsolo2471there's a movie??!
Gun nerds: "These weapons are totally unrealistic!"
Sword nerds: "First time?"
honestly swords being unrealistic can be fine because it depends on the user rather than hardware
@@ege8240 I really kinda doesn't.
@@RelativelyBestwell if you know how to use a sword that is chipped across whole blade you would be an expert of blade breaking mid-fight, a chipped sword can easily break straight swords of your opponents
@@CainDB A chipped sword isn't unrealistic, it's just damaged. (Also, I have no idea what you mean by chipped swords easily breaking blades. A good sword doesn't break easily under any circumstances, and a damaged one would if anything be less durable.)
I meant, you know, fantasy swords that are 100% designed for aesthetics and not at all to be practical weapons. Which is pretty much how the guns in Starfield are designed: They're meant to look cool but if you know how firearms work it's pretty obvious the people at Bethesda don't. Or, more likely, they don't really care.
@@RelativelyBest my English isn't really that good, by chipped sword I've meant those blades that look like sword of the Litch King from World of Warcraft, any close combat weapon can be effective if you know how to use it
My expectations were so low when i saw the "slide" on the regulator, my immediate thought was "firing pin?"
I noticed that your channel is mostly about fallout game, but what do you think about Wolfensteins weapon design? With unnecessary big amount of tiny parts, pins and bolts?
The best fact about the coachman is that, if you use the expanded ammo legendary effect one, the left barrel holds 1 round and the right holds 3 but you reload 2.
Family guy gun
There's something you missed on the regulator, instead of rotating in one direction like you would expect a revolver to it just goes back and forth between two positions. You can tell by the little groove in the side of the cylinder, which goes down on one shot then back up on the next.
I was looking for this comment lmao, but yeah thats real bad fuck up
Saw that and had to make sure someone else commented on that. That's just lazy animation design.
The weird thing is, most games use a loopable animation that pretends to rotate the cylinder and instantly snaps it back in a single frame, which is easier to implement and looks more realistic. It takes extra effort to make the cylinder go back and forth with each shot
it could just be some kind of rotating mechanism that holds a rotating bolt in place, which wouldn't do well in rugged environments but makes sense mechanically at least
@@InfraredScale They likely just play the same animation in reverse, because (let's be honest) they're not smart or educated enough to think of even the most basic of animation techniques.
This is what DEI hires gets you.