War Thunder - With the AIM-120C-5 in the FILES, SHOULD WE GET IT when the UPDATE RELEASES?
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- Talking about the Aim-120C-5 and if it should come!
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You forget that the R-77 and MICA have more drag than the AIM-120s so their energy advantage is bled more over time
Mica not much, but R77 yeah
@@Niko_rj You have no idea.
Mica is triple nerfed right now :
- Caliber of 165mm instead 160mm (higher overall drag)
- Heavy wobbling at the apogee of the trajectory (HUGE energy loss)
- Implemented for 50km of range instead of 80km IRL (overall drag, energy and battery time way too short to reach 80km)
Right now MICA loses almost all its energy shortly after the end of the burn.
We have no indication any of those issues will be fixed by the time the update drops.
As it stands, the MICA is completely inept at BVR
@MessInMines well same with R73 with thrust vectoring
@@MessInMines yeah but it's in the dev server, the IRL MICA is the one discribed on the R77-1 video (of mat), he shouldn't wobble like this
I think we hold it for the F-18C and give it to the F-16C.
And any other planes with a modern enough version that would have used it.
Agree
Yes F-16C should get it and MiG-29SMT the R-77-1.
The 120A is already one of the top fox 3’s based on dev server performance and the flankers are still fine with both the 77 and the 27ER. Neither missile is needed yet. I don’t know why you keep echoing the “aim-120A sucks” thing, delta V is not the sole metric to base missile performance off of
EXACTLY, I think he's becoming a meme
Exactly the 120A is really strong if you implement it correctly
Its the krill issue scrub lords who dont use it properly and is something Im going to expect a lot more in the live server.
MICA missiles is pretty strong but stronger in ACM fight, hoaever the AMRAAM is much stronger outside if you implement jt right (such as speed and altitude)
rewatch the first two minutes of the video
@@ricofighterwhat’s ur point?
@@christopherchartier3017 missiles won't be performing the same way on live server, the way they are on dev. So everything you're arguing about you can throw out the window, talk about it when it hits the live server.
By this logic they should add the eurofighter and rafale with the meteor 😂
To be honest, what matters to me is how the rockets feel in the game, I honestly don't care about the version.
I tested for many, many hours on the test server. The AIM 120 (A+B) felt like the best rockets. Then the mica. And then the R-77 and even worse the R-Darter.
So as far as I'm concerned you don't have to change anything, that's fine.
Please, Matt, stop trying to guesstimate the performance of missiles based on their datamined stats.
It takes a lot of experience to be able to look at the numbers and say "this one will perform better than this one".
Not to mention you don't seem to understand exactly what the different values mean and how they affect the missile's performance.
You focus on the motor but that's not even a third of the whole story.
Depending on how it's implemented, the AIM-120C-5 could double the performance of the AIM-120A in BVR.
Meanwhile the MICA, despite its shiny numbers, is by FAR the worst contender in BVR at the moment due to a long list of issues.
The only reason I know and realise this, is because I'm currently programming a little software that simulates the resulting kinetic performance. (available SOON™)
Shit's complicated man, you can't estimate just by looking at the numbers.
R.I.P. Phoenix 😔
I am looking foeward to playing arround with that software
That software is definitely going to be very useful
based on what iv seen on the dev server the aim 120A has more range than both the r77 and the mica by a decent margin, the c5 would be nice for even more of a range gap to make up for the gap in G limit but its not need for the aim120 to be viable.
its time to get usa competetive again ...
When the 120C-5 drops. Some other country will get a better 120.
the c-5 was for the 22 wasn't it
@@BAM_BAM_XCIit was definitely designed with the Raptor in mind, but pretty much every American jet was upgraded to use them. The C5 is gonna be really nice, because it has clipped fins, which produce less drag (and allow them to fit in the 22’s weapons bay), it gets HOB (high off boresight) capabilities, an upgraded seeker, and better range. Definitely gonna be fun when added, but it is way too good for right now
@@batlax18 then how does the ingame 120C-5 has 10% more drag and 3 degrees less AOA
@@INeatFreak idk maybe because they added it to the files like a week ago. this is the reason why they absolutely shouldnt add the r77-1 or aim120c5 yet. they are stupid unfinished because they have a couple stats in the files and thats it. Gaijin hasnt had anytime to work on them, because theyre busy working on the Fox 3s were actually getting this update
@@batlax18 That's a lotta assumptions, It wouldnt be surprising if Gaijin gimps the USA once again
AIM 120 C-5 - 40G turn
Bruh can they hurry up
if gaijin plans to add anything close to the aim 120c-5, r77-1/m etc then the least they can do for us is spread shit out and maybe add bigger maps like a map based on malmø spreading all the way to the coast of poland, the baltics and finland..or else we can expect our rwr to scream 4 seconds after takeoff unless gaijin adds a sort of grace period
makes no sense to add it now.
Imagine it like gaijin introducing 9l's and then out of the blue deciding to add the 9m at the same time, the 9l would be irrelevant
The PL-12 is supposed to be equivalent to the AIM-120C-5, but gaijin heavily gimped it.
The thing is tho on the stat cards it might not have the most energy but in game the amraam was fs the best missile it barely bleed speed and had the most range and tracked right the r77 is better on stat cards but in game no
Burgur
I don't think enough people use the MICA for it to matter. The R-77 is a shorter range missile due to its drag. As of right now, the Aim-120A will be pretty competitive. If you add the C-5, then the Nato nations might have a distinct longer range advantage. Id wait till later aircraft come out, besides, other than the Aim-9X. The US doesn't really have many AA missiles left to add. if they add the C-5 now, then they have almost no missiles to excite people with later.
that would be nice but im not sure aim 120c-5 will release but i think they will added F-18A Aircraft
F16c, f15c and f18 would all get the aim120C-5
@@adyenmurry7027 yep cause F16C F15C and F18 has AIM 120C-5 which i read does stuff from wikipedia which is why they added it aim 120c 5 in the files so you have to wait longer but still on progress so yeah
I swear I’m gonna lose all hype when the update actually comes out
🤡
What in the fuck,why isnt this fucking update out today
I’d expect it mid next week, Tuesday or Wednesday probably, possibly Thursday. I would rather Gaijin take time with this update and top tier be playable then them rush it and top tier be a living hell
Gaijin has never, in the history of War Thunder, released an update on a weekend. Only once or twice has it been a Friday or Monday, all other instances were on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. The update will almost 100% come Tuesday or Wednesday
Its Saturday goober
i think we should get the c5 every other missle is just better than the 120 a
The 120A is toy-like compared to the later C variants.
Casual american mains always finding a way to complain
This is 100% sarcastic.
@@blank_989 bro just look at the Delta Vs and compare them. Aim 120a is at like 850 while the mica is at 1075. That doesn't make the 120 bad but the gap Is big and the c5 will only give us 950 of Delta V which is still around 10% worse but at least a little less bigger gap
Current R77 and MICA are still smaller range then 120a simply due to aerodinamics! And you think that this is fair to give 120c5 to US and allies when the su27sms best missile for bvr is still a FOX-1? Im not even mentioning the radar on this thing and lack of good enough tws.
120A has higher PK at long ranges then r77, its too early for r77-1 and 120c5 yet. And im sure 77-1 will be worse then c5 due to its stupid grid finns
The aim120a has a max range of 80km in the best escenario possible. The standard max range is about 50-60km, so in game the aim120a is overperforming
MICA EM real range is around 80km, not the 50km it have actually ingame.
@@ser43_OLDC max range means a bomber sized targets flying high altitude towards you. Its not really a solid number
@@horpet389 the first thing I said.
"Best scenario possible"
You said AGAIN that Delta V measures the energy of the missile. You said its the only important characteristic for range: "Delta V is basicly a measurement of energy that a rocket can actually have , right ?" Not , not right
Eddit : At one point you said the Newtons and Burn times dont matter because the Delta V is the important metric.
You also said it has 10% more energy lol. It has 10% higher top speed when launched with an initial speed of 0m/s
Its the exact oposite way. The missiles have very similar bodies so the Newtons and Burn times are the ones that matter.
This video is basically stating the obvious. C>B
The R77 video was so much better because you presented technical information for nerds like me who actually want to hear more than -Later version = Better version-
I am going to copy a bit of a comment i left on your R77 video:
Delta V is irelevant because it only measures how much faster the missile can go after being launched at an initial speed of 0m/s. (In flight the Delta V decreaces althoe the missile gets more energy and range)
To get an ideea of the lethal range range you need the Initial speed , Average acceleration and Burn Time + about 5-10 km (High probability of kill range)
Theoretical example : A missile with 1 second burn time and 1000 m/s Delta V has a lot less range than lets say:
A missile with 10 second burn time and 900 m/s Delta V
To calculate how much further the missile will be able to fly and hit the target you need a lot more information , most of wich is guessworck to us (because we need to know the acceleration graph of the missile after the engine cuts off)(its not called braking. acceleration can be negative too). We need very neerdy shit for that:
Mass , Aerodynamic characteristics at different speeds (the friction graph can do very strange thing when transitioning from supersonic to transsonic)(Also requiring a flight stability study cause missiles in war thunder wobble like they have a seisure), Manouvrability characteristics at different speeds and many more factors you wouldnt think about althoe they impact the performance quite a bit : Air composition , humidity and what might actually apply in the game : Temperature at different altitudes.
Correct calculation of Lethal Range :
Vi = Initial Speed
Vf = Final speed
a = acceleration = Delta V / Burn time
t = time (Burn time)
The formula is the following
(Vi * t) + (1/2 * a * t * t) + 10km
It includes the burn time
10km is just an estimation i cam up with because after the engine consumes all the fuel the missile will still have a lot of speed and will cover some distance. Said distance can even be 50km in the right conditions but for the High Probability of Kill range i decided to use 10km , without adding the complication of Friction
So would you say the 120A has a more effective range than the R-77 overall? I know the dev server is going to portray them incomplete but what are your general thoughts between the two missiles?
@@christopherchartier3017 The AMRAAM showld have more range. I will check the data mines and reply after that. Also note that the R77 has pankake maker fins to make it turn like a drugged bug (unholly fast) so after the R77 engine cuts off it showld start slowing down very fast
Man, do I love the community of nerds in WT. I genuinely learn so much stuff in an easily digestible enough format to know that I have absolutely no fking clue how this stuff would work.
Also, on a side note, the wobble feels more like Parkinsons with how repetitive it is than a seizure.
itlay suffers
WHERE ARE THE AMRAAMS FOR JA37D AND JAS39A
A Viggen with 120’s would be like an F-4 ICE if that’s what u want.. but at that point you’d rather fly the gripen with amraams, no?
@@bambotronnjust give the 37c aim9Ls and move the 37d up with amraams and rb74(m)s added also
@@DustyBustty Then you just have a worse gripen
Yeah, let Viggen get AMRAAM, to play against F15C and Su 27SM.
@@bambotronn yeah ok and? its for larp not for how good it is
To bad the r77 sucks and they had to add a crazy modern jet compared to the f15c
Su-27SM is modern but like the MiG-29SMT, it’s just an upgrade package to bring up the first gen models up to par.
@@Boris_The_Turtle
Too bad the f15 only gets part of its modernization. Would be too strong if it got it all
The fact it has HMD means it's the 2004 upgrade I believe, the whole point of the upgrade was the aim-9X and a few other things
date of introduction doesn't mean anything man J-7e came out the same years as the f22 prototype doesn't mean America needs the f22
@@ferrous3262 it definitely does.... it directly marks a country's advancements. Imagine if warthunder went year by year.
It’s kinda dumb how the J-Kai can’t carry 8 AAM4’s :/
Hey man i’ll still take it 4 aam4s, 2 120’s, 2 aam3. it will still be the best f15 for that reason
No, 4x AAM4 + 4x AIM120. Or 8x AIM 120. Or Mix, but max. 4x AAM4s
@@Maxxx800ify People forget that the aam-3 is legit the best IR missile in game but now the 15J kai will have HMD with them
@@bambotronn yeah super good point, good ass idea
It's how it is irl, AAM-4's fins are too large to be mounted on the wings
It’s so dumb because the aim-120’s is older then all other missles
Still the best missile out side of acm fights
Date of production is completly irelevant
With your logic we can conclude that the Su57 is better than the F22 because its a newer gen 5 aircraft. Wich is false. The Su57 isnt eaven that stealthy
They should ad the aim120c5 and the r77-1 if we take into account that the pl12 is equivalent to those two missiles and also the aam4
They shouldn't add the aim120A and r77 when both are middle to late 80'a tech with ranges of 50-80km in the best excenario, when they are against the pl12, aam4 and mica-em that are late 90's tech and missiles with over 80km of range except the mica
I can’t tell if this is satire or not
PL12 is trash in real life.
@@grahh7234 any problem 🤔?
@@saltysteel3996 the export variant is (sd10)
The AAM4 as of right now is nerfed to match the MICA in motor burn, weight and strength. It thus has the worst range of any ARH missiles in game right now as it has one of the largest body, but also the weakest motor, and lightest mass, causing it to have insane amounts of drag and not much inertia to prevent speed bleed after the motor burns out.
If they do add the aim-120-C-5 an r-77-1 they should also add early meteor varients or prototypes, and correct me if I'm wrong but currently only the jas-39C are able to carry it and since it only can carry 4 or 6 meteors would be quite fair
Lmfao no meteor would be way to good for the game rn
Bro the meteor would be wayyyy too op 😂
@@brodykloster2102 gripen players wanting op stuff when they Alr have the best plane itg. WT players are insufferable they just want the best stuff for themselves. How about we actually have balance for every nation and there isn’t a clear best plane or best missile so the game can be more based on skill lol
@@lucasmodica38no
It would be some what simular to how the mirage f1c plays very good missiles but few of them compared to the competition
what is the point of this video
Eh
He makes money by posting not by thinking
He got wrong preety much every missile comparison cause aparently its hard to understand that Delta V measures speed increace not acceleration
Add AIM120D and AIM9X plz
Not this year, maybe in 2025 for more advanced Fox-2 and Fox-3.
Only if they add the r74m2 and k-77m
You want thoes missiles to fight MICA and R DARTER ?!
You are a bad person
Aim-120A has a better seeker than the R77 and better flight performance but not range R77 has range but a worse seeker and flight performance it loses a TON of Energy when turning Aim-120C-5 Is the equal of the R-77M anything above 12.3 should get Bigger EC maps EC maps that are 2 to 3x bigger 10v10 They also need to patch the Bug with the F15 wings snapping off it would never do that IRL and it Limits the F15 Pilot a LOT Su27 doesnt have to worry about anything and it has HMD They should add the F15E and F-117 stealth bomber
The R-77M is equivalent to the AIM-120D, but the AIM-120C is more comparable to the R-77-1
The r77m has around 200km of range. The r77m is in the same league as the aim120d3. The r77m is better than the aim120c5 in all, it is a missile that right now is being put into service
@@ser43_OLDC R77M is nothing against the R-37M and america has no counter to it)))
@@STRYKER1467 well that thing is the missile with the greatest range launched by an aircraft
@@ser43_OLDC Yes so far, maybe others will follow only the time will tell, it has the biggest range and incredible speed of 5556,6km/h & pulls 38G for the regular R-37 and the speed for the R-37M is around mach 6~ 8284,1km/h which is unbelievably fast already the G pull is unknown most likely improved but even if not if you combine this speed with 38g pull like the old one its almost impossible to evade at all, if gaijin ever adds the MiG-31 we could test these missiles, now with the introduction of FOX-3's this becomes possible.
How to ruin the game:
Imagine Gaijin gives the R-27ER with a 65 km range and IOG+DL to go against the AIM-7M with 40 km range, no data link, and no IOG....
@@zooloomods bro that would be so unbalanced good that they didnt do it
@@elo4998 😂Yeah, they didn't do it....
@@zooloomods giving C-5 is doing even worse thing now
You know what is even funnier ?
I saw a comment crying about how gaijin only listens to US mains
Let that sink in for a moment.
With the abrams lacking spall liners and US planes not getting 120B and so much more lmao
Short answer yes, because gaijin only listens main USA cries
please shut up bruh no it shouldn’t