War Thunder is designed to make you stupid
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2024
- Respect yourself, don't fall for it.
Patreon - / liniyka
00:00 - Intro
00:47 - Bait and Switch
02:47 - Radio Silence
05:18 - Bombs and Premiums
08:53 - I Beg of You
#warthunder #warthundergameplay #warthunderguide #warthunderair #warthunderreview #warthunderplanes #warthunderplane 
Игры
hit the nail on the head also thanks :)
💋
Feels kinda weird to be here after seeing you comment for years on my page tho lol
Yooooo it’s DEFYN
If the Lord DEFYN himself comments you know you have made it, I myself spent about 500 hours in arcade before going to RB and feeling confident, here i am at 5000k and 10 years lol
@@DEFYNheard there are some people putting tutorials on youtube. he probably meant spiflyer, joob, jengar…that‘s it🫣🤪
once you get to top tier, you realize that lowtier was where the real fun was.
I honestly find top tier way more fun. But that’s just my preference.
Props are where it’s at
Honestly, my account is 10yrs old, and I don't even have a single top tier at any tree(well, I had back when maus was top-tier..) but addition of atgm, then quided bombs and plane rockets made top tier shitshow that I won't touch. I stick to max early cold war things. And rly sometimes try a jet or mbt just to say that sucks and is no fun for me. And spoiler - I do have fun at lower br(and also frustration since it's still War Thunder xD) I had a year pause from the game due to early mbt and jet grind shitfest and just recently got back with a mindset - don't touch high br
@@peosio96same here, but I guess we are the minority 🤷♂️
@@A-Warthog-cc1wm yeah to each their own. But I’ll stick to my Leo 2s and T80s. See you in the fields 🫡
"The junk merchant doesn't sell his product to the consumer, he sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client."
- William S. Burroughs
Once you realise investors are the client and players are product a lot starts to make sense
@@VarenvelDarakus a problem across the entirety of the videogame industry.
@@badideagenerator2315 AAA industry and some AA , i mostly play indie games
@@badideagenerator2315 Not only the videogame industry. This is the way with modern-era consumerism.
Man, I'm saying that, that "Target Destroyed" does neuron activation.
Recently I found out, you can turn it off in settings. It felt weird for sure:)
@@Rosaslavwhy remove dopamine hits?
@@Rosaslavgetting rid of the only source of dopamine would kill me
there is similar things on most popular games,like the minion dying and giving you gold sound in league,but i think i'll never know how it feels since i play most of my games without sound on,or only the required sounds for the gameplay, japanese female death sounds for league is an exception to this of course.
Based take.@@manapotu6623
mig 15 vs sabre was the peak of war thunder
I wish i was playing back thenz
still could be but there are op supersonics at that tier
Nothing more pleasant than figting a Mig-19 or an F-104 :D It's such a waste of time quite often. They just avoid You. And You cannot blame them for playing their strengths tbf :d
@@varesin2978mig 19 is prolly my fav plane in the entire game , you can just energy fight everything. poeple who avoid fighting with the 19 are pussies fr fr. unfortunately 9ls and r60ms ruin that entire BR bracket for me, its just not fun anymore unless you dont get uptiered (which happened 8/10 games for me).
@@GipsyDanger41 Hell yeah man :D Similar feelings here. It's my #1 total wins jet, not by much tho. As for killing, I find it hard to execute a kill, you have to work quite hard to get one. In other words I'd say it holds it's energy too well sometimes haha. Learning MiG-21MF was pain in my butt at first, coming from the 19. Right now I probably like 21 the most, it's kinda the first jest with good enough rockets and it's br is really good imo with it's performance. But still, MiG-19 is awesome.
Gonna play a game or two with that in a bit, lol
I play War Thunder ✅
I have money ✅
I’m not mentally deranged ❌
I play War Thunder ❌
I have money ✅
I’m not mentally deranged ✅
I play War Thunder ✅
I have money ❌
I’m not mentally deranged ✅
I play War Thunder ✅
I have money ❌
I’m not mentally deranged ❌
I play War Thunder ❌
I have money ❌
I'm not mentally deranged ❌
He said he couldn’t speak for ground but ground is even worse
@@notfinn1583IDK, IMO it's much easier to learn and even a bad tank is much more viable than a bad plane so P2W is less of an issue. The grind is pain, stock vehicles are a scam, but the lower tiers are more fun anyway.
I play War Thunder✅
I have money❌
I'm not mentally deranged ✅
"Either in cash or your soul" ... I felt that 💀
“They go back to bombing…….but now in a cool jet” lol☠️
That's what B2 Spirit of German do to all US and USSR tanks in ground RB. Nothing has turret rotate or firing speed at its br to completely shutdown those German jets, they just roam free and ammo racked everyone.
@@superspies32you just described cas in ground rb...fuckin stupid addition
Just look around. F-16 Block 5 with bombs. Mig29 with bombs. Su-27 with bombs. It's like taking best dogfighters and using the in the worst way possible and there's even no outcome from that. What's the point of having fancy BVR fighter with insane TWR and missile that roast US-main by their existence alone IF these cockpit filler don't know how to use them.
Top Cringe
@@tieroneoperator635I like my Bv238 and Pe-8 thank you ❤👌
@@tieroneoperator635
Step 1 get a top tier jet
step 2 unlock bombs asap
step 3 bomb then little pvp until spaded
step 4 PVP
The Sniper Elite slow-mo at the start💀
Nutcracking 50cal
2015 player here, the Korean War era of top tier was genuinely, the most enjoyable thing I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing in this game. That feeling of finally, reaching the apex, finally sharpening my skills into perfection to fight against some of the most skilled players in the game, reaching synergy with my aircraft, using it's strengths while avoiding it's weaknesses. It was addicting getting aces left and right in my F-86F-2. Now, I would like to get back to that... I miss the thrill, and the people there. Wonder where they are now... Cheers to the fallen Kings of the Sky. o7
I used to play on Ps4 back in 2016 and those were better times. I never made it to the migs and sabers. But i was almost there before my Ps4 died on me. Fly high and good hunting o7
We are in the prop world! At least for me though... I usually stay at 6.7 and below... I miss those times when my Mig-15bis and Cl-13 was top tier, who knows maybe we even fought together back in the day (:
man i feel old, I started in 2012-13
2013 player here, we've mostly moved into other games. Those that stayed play props or naval now.
Despite tons of people disliking the "pixel hunting" that sometimes Ground Forces turned to back then, at the very least it wasn't the random shitshow that it is now after they changed shells to be volumetric but not the tanks' armors
You can shoot a 128mm shell against a light tanks 30mm thick mantlet and the round bounces because the edge of the shell barely scraped the part where 2 armor plates meet, thus the system counts the armor as being some 250mms or something, or sometimes you shoot the front armor of a BMP with 350+ mm pen APFSDS and the round just bounces because the system is completely fucked and Gaijin still doesn't bother fixing it after 4 years
But hey, most players don't seem bothered by the fact that their shots have high chances of failing because the system is fucked, they just accept it and moved on, sad to see and a large reason I don't play the game anymore
The funny part is that the game followed the air combat evolution. First was all pilot skill, them after some time is basically who has the best missile and can fire it first. Sadly i think it would be inevitable, with newer and newer planes, one day the skill wouldnt matter that much.
Active radar missiles coming next patch, can't wait!
Pretty soon they will add stealth planes like the F-35 and SU-57 that won’t even show up on radar and are so easy to fly that even noobs can learn them. The F-35 literally babies its pilots compared to other planes.
In the physical world, the reason planes are made easier to fly is not so anyone can fly them, it's to free the pilot up to focus on all the other areas of a combat like situational awareness and the slew of information they're receiving and sending to other pilots and command. It still takes skill, just a different sort of skill.
And finally the buff/nerfs. GJ buff and nerf due to win rate, not due to other stats. So if you joined 6.7br in tank RB, suddenly you are moving and the Me-262 come, BOOM you got ammo racked just because the jet passthrough and the air it created has penetration nearly 200-300mm. You respawned on SPAA to be BOOOOOM again because those Jets fly faster than your turret trajectory. Worst of all the flak ammo on SPAA did not set to range but set to only detonated on nearly enemies so goodluck trying to guess the range.
Then if you played USSR, you want jets too, its Su-9 but since 4.0br no one play Arcade battle for air anymore and you have to join the hell of grind to Su-9, there are no other exception even buy one with your money because there are no other jets on 6.5-7.0br anymore.
@@therealspeedwagon1451imagine being such a moron that you say something like this without the skill to fly a regular plane much less a stealth fighter smh. Speedwagon must be code for meth rotting your brain.
it's pretty wild that the most engaging air combat mode is actually in ground rb
I have a deranged amount of hours in this game, and THANK YOU. Very well done, very well put together. Exactly put together the primary issues with this game for new players.
i have like 600 hours
i've been playing for about a year
@@_Heckler Times 10 years like all the veterans, boom, 6000hrs.
When I started to play 6 years ago I reffused to get out of rank 2 until I could get 5 kills on air rb, just because I hated the idea of becoming a liability for the team, It worked, one I got to higher tiers I just needed to understand missile mechanics, then the phamtom got added, I learned to operate the radar, then variable geometry planes, and so on...and then I see this lvl 5 players at 12.0 and it grinds my gears when they don't even know the basics, so yea, war thunder profits on players frustration with no options to help them improve on the game itself, I'll always hate them for that.
I like that. I figured a while ago (mainly after getting my hands on Il-2 1946 and realized how obscure, early aircraft are just as interesting, if not more so, than modern jets) that quick grinding is not something to strive for and only causes frustration. Learning about obscure early war WW2 aircraft is a nice aspect of WT on its own. While I am something of a German main, I make sure to play every other country as well. It gives me quite a bit of knowledge on the abilities of my foes as well.
Same goes for everything else WT offers, from tanks to whatever.
No matter the BR, WT won't get any funner or easier. BRs are designed so roughly equally good vehicles fight together, everything else is up to your skill and wits.
I used to walk a balance beam of getting banned and staying active just to be able to TK low-level players at high BRs. If I'm in my jet and had to grind my way to it, you need to as well. Mommy shouldnt be able to buy it for you.
Whats even worse is when people go "haha funny memes" and bring their level 10 friend into a top tier game and all they have is a biplane. Like genuinely actually just go unplug your computer, because you obviously arent using it for anything remotely good
@@Salamandra40kleast toxic warthunder “player”
@@Salamandra40k Game is full of idiots like you, that start a match from TK and I would say that this is by far more serious problem than noob in a premium or an occasional troll in low BR plane. Take your own advice and unplug your computer.
Lol you dork@@Salamandra40k
I personally think if you play WT casually it’s one of the best armoured warfare games but if you no life you become a shell of a human
Truer words have never been spoken
Well said. I enjoy looking at the vehicle models and trying to role-play the history. I find it pretty fun because I've become okay with
But you can't play casually bc you're in a match, driving around, not knowing the map very well, and you suddenly get 1 shot a km away by an idiot who never touched grass in his life
@@shieldwallclonetroopers145 I wish it would be only 1km away some are insta nuking you from 2km+ away
@@Dregomz02you re not playing low tier then.
It s gonna take a few games to get a good feel for the map. But if you manage to remain strategic and resist the urge to rush to get dopamine quicker the games can be really satisfying and you can end up with a lot of kills.
Sadly if you’re methodical and do everything right sometimes you just get unlucky and ennemies are elsewhere. And the moment you step out of line you get clapped by that dude on the corner of the map who has also been waiting all game for ennemies.
what im really bothered by is that, in top tier air RB, theres no real strategic use in bombing bases. theyre only sparsely defended, incur no additional penalty or response from the other team, besides draining a portion of their tickets and comparatively offer really meager rewards compared to killing players or even AI air targets.
If there was some strategic use of bombing bases, like some additional AI fighters spawning that actively hunt down enemy players, or if they were actually defended by SAM systems like in Helicopter PVE, there would be some team play needed to get them destroyed. but as theyre right now, bases are a really underdeveloped mechanic of this game. Maybe add some more dangerous units around them so people will actually have to fight to get their bombs in or have someone distract or destroy enemy sam systems so the bombers can do their job. Or add some hardened targets that need stuff like guided bombs or armor piercing agms to destroy to them. maybe also add physical buildings to the base that need to be destroyed for the base to take damage and not just let it get damaged by blowing up a field next to it.
There is a portion of the playerbase that want bombing bases to be a lot more technical, like air combat.
I agree, the airfield on air battles on high tier should have AA missiles with radar and even ECM reinforced. Also the spawn of tank battles should have Pillbox with anti tank weapons to prevent spawn camping.
dear god no i beg of thee to not bring back mid map aa
It's a massively lacking part of the game that hasn't been touched in like over a decade.
Firing a dumb rocket alone in Air Realistic battle needs a tutorial.
Gaijin thinks its a good idea to hide tutorials in a convoluted way, like you need a tutorial just to play tutorials in the game.
Good video, man.
tf you mean it needs atutorial all you gotta do is fire the rocket
@@Enteropy23 you ever try to shoot tanks with prop rockets?
@@unfazedmc5734 i take down air vehicles with prop rockets
Not even arcade helps you with firing rockets. You just have to pray to RNJesus that you get a kill with a rocket. I’ve only ever killed a plane with a rocket ONCE. I just wish arcade gave you CCIP for rockets.
@@therealspeedwagon1451 arcade gives you infinite ammo if you miss get over it use your guns and wait for the reload
My friend was really frustrated because he couldn't get any kills in air RB and he got constantly killed by XP-50's. He just didn't know what to do against them despite constant advice and help, he just kept making the same mistakes and getting more frustrated.
At one point he just bought the XP-50 and his first match with it went the same, but now it was an A6M who killed him in a dogfight. He deleted the game and never played since.
Did he ever bother to learn the mechanics of the game? I’ve had tons of people try to turn fight my Zero, yet if they speed away and just boom and zoom me. I’d be dead meat.
Unfortunately, I've come to realize that throwing money at the problem isn't the solution. I've spent about $550-600 to no avail. Now, whenever I play War Thunder, it's nothing but frustration because I can't seem to make any progress; I'm just easy prey for other players. Time is scarce, and I don't have the opportunity to improve my skills. Regardless of the game mode I choose, whether it's Ground Realistic Battles or Air Realistic Battles, the outcome is the same: defeat. Typically, I'll start War Thunder when I have an hour or two of spare time, play one game, and then, overwhelmed by frustration, I'll exit with Alt+F4. This cycle tends to repeat every couple of days. War Thunder has completely drained me.
I always hate when people go "this is a PVP game" as that gives the snail every excuse not to make ground pounding actually engaging/enjoyable. It's a combined arms simulator.
i agree that this should be a combined arms game, but there is no real gamemode that makes pvp OR combined arms enjoyable (and is accessible)
rb is filled with bombers that don't contribute to victories, and pvp is too crowded to enjoy it
truth of the matter is, war thunder just doesn't cater enough to the specific sects of the community, and so they all get thrown into a cluster where nothing past jets is really fun anymore
Wait, I'm meant to be having fun?
big agree, i started playing the game long before tanks years ago because i was in love with ground strike aircraft like the A-20, B-17’s SBD-3’s and to this day i feel like they’re neglected on tasks and missions to do :(
i want to feel the rush of weaving through mountain ranges in a strike mission to hit a target and get home safely! not dogfight in a pile of planes for 2 minutes ;v;
I agree, air combat sometimes just sucks especially because so many planes are leagues better and you get games where you get 3rd partied again and again and again
I agree!
Very well put, as a player that started in 2015 I totally agree with the points you made. I have never spent real money on the game and don't really play often but it's pretty sad that the days where skill mattered in top tier jets is long gone. I remember when the whole deal was F-86 vs. Mig-17 vs. Hunter vs. CL.13 and we had no premium jets.
Don't cry because it's gone, smile because it happened ❤️
Low and top tier SB are still fun and req skill but even there are players that say: “Don’t kill me, I’m brainless bot and all I know and want is to fly straight to bomb bases”, well they actually say just “PVE” but I think it is the same
I use a su25 in sim and idgaf abt pve or not, My main goal is to bomb and win but if I see any1 ill actively engage like how we should@@user-jy6cn3jy8g
I cant destroy my soul grinding this. Its a good game but still not worth it.
@@Liniyka u are talking about air battles at top tier. u must to see the idiocy dominating the middle-tier in tank battles. i've never seen a bunch of idiots like those i meet every single game
every new player should see this video
Every person planning on getting War Thunder should see this video. Will probably save them a lot of money and pain. I should’ve watched this video when I was playing WoW and was contemplating getting WT and the whole chat told me not to.
Nice try fed, I'm never going to betray the snail
based
\
Only glowies use fed anymore. Patriots moved on from that term a while ago.
fr
@@TheMickmanfizz
Me when I feed the Russian government
Any of you guys need top secret documents?
When you mentioned the things about rookies playing bombers, that's pretty much what I did. While it's something I enjoy doing and I can earn tons of money using the F-111A with a certain wager active, it really doesn't teach you how to be an effective fighter. I used to exclusively play naval, and got really good at it because that used to be the only way to make money before the economy changes, which aren't perfect either but they're better than what they used to be. I just wish they would put EC with air realistic setting. Apparently that was a thing before I started playing 3+ years ago. I hate that every match always just boils down to a team deathmatch. While those are fun for a while, they get dull and repetitive. Appreciate the video! Keep up the good work.
Hot Take: Missile Jets actually restrain you more from the fun as the missile does all the fighting for you, basically. It takes a tremendous amount of skill AND LUCK to survive long enough to actually make it to the merge and a dogfight. And nowadays, you fight and suddenly your enemy does something completely stupid because they don't know better or saw another juicy target. So they fly away and you kill them...
There was a time when I mastered split throttles to get the edge, but that is now pretty much over and unnecessary.
I think that is mostly because of the 16 v 16 top tier matchmaker. You cannot expect a player to keep track of so many planes with so many missiles in the air so even the best of the best will get caught off guard by a missile at some point. But if you reduce the teamsize to lets say 8 players it becomes a completely different game since you arent overwhelmed anymore. Dogfighting will still not be the meta but thats not the point of these jets. Most of the skill expression will come from positioning and knowing how to use your armaments and how to avoid the ones of your enemies. Air combat at high tier is more preventive than reactive. There are situations where you cant get out of so you have to avoid getting into these situations. Thats a thing a lot of people dont like and its also a bit tricky to learn at first because you have to think ahead more.
8v8 top tier games with teams that somewhat know what they are doing would be a very competitive enviroment but that dream is getting more out of reach with every update...
@@VogelchenNot to mention that in said 16v16 match you've got fuck all ammo and, like, four missiles. Like realistically if you consider missed cannon and missile shots you'll be happy to get three-four kills before you have to run away and hope nobody spots you. Meanwhile some early-to-mid tier props have enough ammo for a skilled player to, hypothetically at least, solo the entire enemy team.
tru
As others have said, its a match making problem. Having 16 v 16 matches is too much for the size of the maps. They need to tweak some stuff until they find the sweet spot where you still find your self in a 1v1 or 2v2 in top tier. Then and only then, does this game stand a chance
@@YTDariuS-my6dgat most you got like 6 missles at that's on a premium lol
I've played WT since feb 2013 and I've been saying these things for years now, you phrased everything almost exactly the same as I have, I described this as "the life cycle of a new player". Great video that covers it all concisely.
I often think that many WT players have not been playing long enough to realize what the game used to be, especially at top tier, and also the scale of the broken promises. I used to spend money on this game but I stopped in early 2018 because I didn't like the direction the game was going and all the lies. I genuinely want to spend money on this game again but I can't bring myself to do it, unfortunately I can't imagine what it would take for Gaijin to regain my trust and respect at this point.
The early tiers are the most fun. I actually didn't know one is actively supposed to avoid targets though, those always seemed to be where the fights were anyway.
I spend 90% of my time in 1.3-2. It's just more fun
Honestly, everything you said was true. At the very beginning, as a low-level player, I bought the jet premium and was literally beaten up by everything and hated for spending money on the rank 6 premium. Until I started learning from every failure, mastered the settings and finally, after a long time, explored the entire American tree and learned how to play. Despite the initial kick in the ass that a new player gets, I say that with willingness and a bit of brain you can learn to play jets.
Damn those nord kills 😩
I was drooling
This perfectly sums it up, I've been playing for 2 plus years and am almost at rank six air once i locked in to grind. Strangely I find bombers somewhat relaxing when I don't want to use my brain when trying to grind
How are bombers relaxing? I just get shot when I get to climb. What are you doing differently?
@@fennikk2433 depends on what bomber you're using and how good you are at using your gunners. There are some games where you aren't hounded down either so it's possible to have games where you can really just bomb peacefully.
@@fennikk2433 I play mostly fighters, but when the plane is right, it is actually fun and relaxing, different experience. The American Catalina at 1.7 BR is awesome, well armed and sturdy, the planes are slow so you have time to aim and fight. Or German He 111 H-16 at 2.7 BR, good gun coverage and armament, sturdy too but fighters are already decent to take you down.
Tried Famous B-17 but at the BR, the fighters are just too good and well armed for me to stand a bigger chance..
"this is not csgo, everybody knows how 2 play fps games"
the bro never joined a combat surf server
And lets not mention how they nerfed rewards across the board.
Bombing isn't even that valuable anymore.
In my He-177 A-5, it's cheaper blitz for a base or two then fly *directly* into the enemy fighters and let them kill me to significantly reduce my repair costs.
I've gotten 6 bases in a match before and still came out in the negative.
I used to enjoy bombing using bombers for me dogfighting I do it in Ground RB since I suck with AA and there is no name tags.
Anyway...
Flying around in BV238 or HE-177 was fun... but after the patch it's not worthy anymore.
Unlike BV238, HE-177 still has a chance of performing "well". Armor is good. Weapons are good. The speed and maneuverability is not bad for a big bomber.
At start of match I just dive reach around 650km\h, Drop bombs on targets and start helping fighters as a flying fortress. You should try doing this.
How did you come out in the negative? Do you have auto-repair on?
@@liquidleopard4495Nope, their system of "the longer you are in the battle with one vehicle, the more it costs to repair."
@@blitzkrieg8776 haha have to punish you for succeeding or else you might progress
Have you tried buying 1 year of premium during Christmas sale 50% off ? It solves all my repair cost problems.
After 3.3k hours in WT I couldn´t agree more.
War Thunder is a waste of time in general, and putting money in it it´s the stupidest thing anyone could ever do in a videogame.
Thankfully it fills me with pride that after 3.3k hours I´ve never, NEVER gave Gaijin a single penny, and that´s because they don´t deserve it. One could argue that after creating such a detailed and dynamic game they should deserve your cash, but if you are constantly pressing your player base to throw money into your game by making the grind incredibly frustrating and slow, and even at some points impossible specially in Naval Battles, allowing players to exploit abusive tactics like CAS and light tanks in ground battles, and adding premiums making the game essentially pay 2 win. Yeah, no. You don´t deserve money from the community.
Personally I got into WT because I´m a huge WW2 fan, but Gaijin has destroyed any WW2 immersion that this game had so they could sell more shiny premiums. It´s disgusting.
Also, the grind is absolute horrible, I even wasted time grinding for the USS Newport instead of spending time with my family in Christmas and New Year´s Eve, just to feel complete emptiness afterwards.
Thankfully I managed to finally quit it and I´m being serious when I say that quitting WT has improved my life in those last 3 months.
For your sanity, self respect and relationships don´t play War Thunder.
Well said brother
I've put well over a thousand hours into the game and started playing it in 2014. I put the game down 5 years ago and every time some content of it reaches me I'm just met with reassurance for my decision because if anything it seems the issues that took me away from the game 5 years ago are more present now than anything.
It sucks because at its core WT is exactly what I wanted in a game of this style. RB is the perfect amount of realism to where I actually have to have some degree of knowledge about what I'm doing and the vehicle I'm using to do well, but without being a full simulator so that the experience is still pretty casual. Topped off with probably the best control scheme for M+KB flight in gaming (which is patented so you won't ever see it in a competitor), and it should be an amazing experience.
But its not, because Gaijin's focus is entirely to frustrate you into spending as much money as possible to have some semblance of an enjoyable game (I never spent a dime thankfully) while milking new content and ignoring an increasing build up of bugs and balance issues and furthering the already ridiculous grind.
It's a widely known fact that while most players love War Thunder they also hate Gaijin, the reviews on Steam reflect this. But there needs to be more explainations as to why such as this out there so they can't get away with disinformation campaigns like when Steam hid "off topic" negative reviews while keeping the positive ones.
Gaijin might make better decisions at the game if they weren't a bunch of orcs moonlighting for Putin's "troll factories".
I have never spent a dime, never planned on doing so. Lower tiers are too fun, and I don’t want the fun of top tier to be ruined by another idiot in an F-5C. I’ll keep grinding my P-47s.
Welfare warriors..you’re welcome.
In defense of bombing as a newbie it made me WAY better using defense guns and showed me how much better strike aircraft is
Yeah like by using OP logic...
Am I suppose to dogfight in my heckin B17 against four Bf109?!? 😅
And also what if some players like me enjoy bombers that were main reason to play WT 😂
@@januczak3705cope tbh.
Dude, this was super accurate and kinda scary in a way. Maybe you could do more war thunder content in the future, it would probably do very well.
Thanks! Defyn already exists and I'm not that good of a player, so... I'm not sure. Maybe if I find something worth talking about? I'll think about it
@@Liniyka There might still be a market for someone more representative of the playerbase showing gameplay. DEFYN is a great player, but he isn't exactly fighting the way most people are going to fight, which is probably part of why people like Joob have a place. Ultimately, if your gameplay is still good enough to not be consistently cringeworthy and you have enough general charisma and the like to be enjoyable to watch in general, then it's at least worth a try.
@@wolfgangkolber381 Defyn is boring..good player yes..entertaining? No. He has about as much charm as a dead fish.
@@csh5414 I enjoy him. It's satisfying to watch, but generally I prefer Joob, just wish he'd do more props. I mentioned Defyn in response to Liniyka's message.
Gentleman, I believe we have all been motivated by what this wise man has said. I recommend that we pressure Gaijin into adding proper tutorials. We have learnt that without player action, nothing will change, nothing. Let’s do something!
I just want the return of air realistic enduring confrontation. Gaijin removed it cause it made the grind too easy
You got to the root issues without nitpicking at the details. Excellent, honest guide for new players!
Thank you!
havent watched a minute of the video yet but I can already feel the big dick energy because you are using AA-Nords
I begun my journey with war thunder in summer of 2023. I've chosen germany and was dogshit at first, but I kept getting better and grinding loadouts that fit the battlerating. I bought 1 premium on sale: 2s38(this would become important later). I managed to get to 6.7 lineup in germany before the Object 292 event and became super upset beacause of OP cas(slow tiger 2 + ferdinand vs supersonic cas planes that you can spawn after 1 kill arent fun duels), BR compresion(1 time I face the Jumbo 75 which I can pen and one time I face an IS-6 or Fox and cannot do shit) and shit teammates that just grind 1 line and don't get better. I grinded almost the whole 292 event with 2S38. In the process I got the 10.0 tank and got to 6.7 in Russia. So basicly u can play 2 weeks with OP premium with almost no skill in toptier and get to the same place you would get to if you played from 1.0 in the normal tech tree for 6 months. Realy fucking balanced. I quited this game this week and became much happier.
After playing since 2014 I think this is pure wisdom.
I made the mistake of buying the mig-21bis for germany a while back. Even though I mainly focused on dogfighting, I noticed that the jet simply didn't work at top tier RB. What I did was turn to sim battles and it has never been this much fun to play war thunder in a long time.
I went from flying in a straight line, tabbing out halfway through the match to properly taking off of airfields and closely watching my radar and IFF to make sure I'm not killing friendlies.
A good thing for new players to remember is that air combat _really_ isn't a genre for everyone. Its a sim game, or well, its tryna be a sim game, at least. And sim games are generally hobbyist games with a very steep learning curve that expect new players to bring in a fair amount of pre-existing knowledge. War thunder is honestly more popular than its native playerbase would ever have been due to its skinner box design and disingenuous marketing.
Downloaded the game almost half a year ago with the full knowledge that I have Compulsive Buying Disorder; I've already downed a few hundred dollars in the game, and it's been eating at my mind like hell. So glad to know it's not just me. It's been three months since my last purchase in game and I've felt much better since.
Idk how much money I would’ve saved if I never found this game eons ago
the scarier thing to contemplate is how much more money you would've made if you had put the hours grinding into grinding irl
It’s ironic that during this video 2 ads displayed, and both was war thunder ads, one mobile and one regular xD
Amazing video, especially the part about bombing, hate seeing F-4s players with 0 situational awareness beeline for bases and contribute nothing to the team and not learn anything about jets, radar usage etc. but I guess the second reason about a lack of a tutorial is part of the reason why this happens
This video just gives me PTSD by hearing the music.
its beatiful music.
One of the most relatable videos I have ever seen. Tank RB was enjoyable for a while when I left Air RB but ultimately I abandoned the game in 2020. Funny thing is that the answer to Bomber problem is in the Simulator Battles and it's limitation on Fighters. A mod which is also abandoned.
juat got war thunder and im having a blast, i think that making you learn from experience is very good as you play the game more and its more satisfactory when you finally learn
I watched the video and it's good. This dude was right
🥰
The lvl7 f20's are free gripen food
Me and my f4s been eating good 😂 also
@@DjWolf9392F4s players are f15 food lol
I bought the f20 cause it had been a long time since i played jets and im a ground main and wanted to change it up. Im actually competent at plane though and I havent seen many low level f20s the lowest I saw was level 24. Most new players realize 75 is too much and still buy the f4s which is still a bad thing but the f20s arnt that bad rn from what ive seen
@@bucks8428 idk bout that ( at least for me) I'm 8-2 against f15s , I die mostly to mig 23 that pop up behind the whole team or the f14
I’m not buying the f-20 under any circumstances. It’s literally an F-16 but worse. What was Gaijin thinking about when making this thing. Besides I stick to my Soviet vehicles and I already regret buying the SU-25K and will probably regret buying the Mig-23ML if I actually get it.
The best thing is that it isn't that much different for ground, heck, even the comoforts in AGB are more notable than in RGB (corsshair that tells you if shooting there can pen or not, basically detecting any enemy in a 1 mile radious automatically, etc)
Besides, ground tutorial just teaches you how to drive, how to shoot and nothing else, they don't teach you how to postion yourself to get the best of your armor (angling) don't go really inot detail what type of shell does, etc
Logging on in 2016 to see a new update with new jets you never imagined would come to the game was peak i miss the good old days its sad to see how this game has evolved but it will always have a special place in my heart
The thing is they do have Tutorials for air combat maneuvers!
On RUclips.
And they are several years old.
And they just tell you what to do and not walk you through the basics.
Great summary of Gaijin's shady practices. I have an other solution for myself, and everybody who lacks the time to play air RB: play arcade, and just accept the reality: there is a glass ceiling somewhere at rank V/BR 6. If you can play for enjoyment, and able to release the urge to progress on the tech tree, AB from BR 2.0 to 5.0 offers satisfying, free dogfights with backup planes.
problem: some interesting maps are reserved just for high-tier. red desert is very funny but it's just for high-noised players
Part of the bait and switch on aviation noobs is also how absurdly forgiving most biplanes tend to be in terms of how fast they turn, how little energy retention TRULY matters in air arcade, and how often the entire tiny map is one huge furball of planes.
Hell, I used to load my biplanes exclusively with tracers because it looked like it shot faster, and exclusively turn fight at the lowest altitude possible, and it worked wonders for me in the early game.
Even like tier 2/3, much less jets, are so different.
When I was new to WT, I played bombers. I was amazed at how amazing the B-34 was. Eventually I got bored and fell in love with the P-47s and realized how much fun fighters were. I've played 2 tech trees to top tier now and I've not spent a single dime on the game. Gaijin has made so many bad decisions that I don't want to reward them for that.
I don't see your point with tutorials.
I don't remember CS:GO, LoL, DotA2, or any big games teaching you ACTUAL strategy.
At best, they make you move, attack, buy a thing or two, enough to start a game and get stomped. You learn the rest either by researching, or being taught by other players.
I've been playing this game for the better part of a year now and it's really funny to hear you describe my exact experience
At least you're aware. Now it's up to you to get good, if you so desire
@@Liniyka I sure as hell ain't giving into premiums yet, I'll tell you that
There really is a lot to do in warthunder and so many roles to play so you really just have to try everything, the more you play the more knowledge you'll have of the vehicles but the biggest gamechanger is actually going out of your way to get some knowledge on how to play whether it be in tanks, planes, ships or helicopters.
Thank you, I needed this. I feel smarter after agreeing with your points and channel recommendation. Just thanks
You're welcome!
I started warthunder in 2021 when PewDiePie got sponsored and nobody told me how much "pain" sweden was and basically made shir all progress for 1 1/2 years and only in the past year ive gotten good afyer brute forcing the game, this is not how the game shouldn't be, IT should be fun...
Yeah, there have been many Swedish tanks and stuff that made me wonder "How is its BR so damn high?!?"
Battle Rating is supposedly determined by a vehicle's win ratio, across all players that have played it. A friend rationalized that since *nobody* starts with Sweden, or even plays Sweden as their main nationality (please tell me you didn't) most players are pretty experienced by the time they start Sweden. They probably even played *most* other nations first. So, the players who choose Sweden have accidentally given some sketchy vehicles a high win ratio.
My own stats show a win ratio 50% or better for half my Swedish tanks, but except for Rank I their _kill ratios_ are dismal.
I seem to have been in a lot of winning matches where I didn't get kills, had a low score, and it wasn't actually fun.
yea i agree, it was pain but ive no longer got a skill issue so im 600K RP from the Grippen and thats all ia care now
@@liquidleopard4495
One way of viewing this video is the narrator telling everyone "you are playing the game wrong, you have to play it the way I do".
If it was just a PVP game there wouldnt be any PVE elements or targets.
Damn, i actually one of those that fell for becoming a bomber main because i starts with US and people wasn't kidding when that is a tree of discipline but i ends up bombing base with the F6F.
Now i am somewhat good, not like super good but atleast good enough to make Sakeen actually works.
Though while top tier isn't everything, i still wishes to play planes that can actually do Afterburner and sometimes i play dedicated bombers to actually chill.
or the FW190F
That's a good description of how it went for me in WT air. I don't know if any amount of single-player tutorials from WG would make a newb gud, I mean I tried youtube for hints with air combat, and it still never clicked for me. The other modes are very different, ground is more intuitive but the low survivability of the vehicles even in arcade is frequently frustrating, along with camping being too strong especially in Realistic. Naval is neither unintuitive nor frustrating nor does it have camping, but it quickly becomes a slog. Compared to World of Warships (which is overall the superior naval game), it feels much more focused on aiming rather than tactics, and there's not enough variety.
If you want bad tutorials, DCS also is up there with the fanc plane selection but dogwater tutorials. Try doing the Mig-21 tutorial in DCS, in one tutorial it tells you to turn on the auto pilot but if you follow instructions to the letter the plan will stall and crash because surprise surprise it spawns you at a low throttle setting and the auto pilot can't make up for that so you die while it drones on about useless crap.
Mig-21 is not the easiest plane in DCS. If you want to start and enter DCS with a low budget, Flaming Cliffs 3 modules are a good option. If you want to fly a full fidelity plane, a F-18C is an easy start with allot of depth and flexibility. Community is way less toxic and there are many FREE servers to join. I play DCS since 2018 and now i dont even look back to War Thunder.
@@bartbroekhuizen5617 I watch a 10 minute tutorial on youtube, it does everything the tutorial does but better in every way. Mig-21 isn't even that hard of a plane to just fly around in, but the tutorials make it harder not easier.
Yeah, to get good and have WITHOUT external help, you basically need to be either a genius or unbelievably stubborn. I am not a genius, but I am absolutely so incensed at the idea of spending enough money to feed myself for two weeks on a virtual jet, so I decided no matter how frustrated I get, not ONLY am I not quitting, I am ALSO not spending a fucking penny on this God damned game. After over 1600 hours, it's a love-hate relationship. When things work out you feel like you're at the top of the world, nobody can touch you, sometimes if you're lucky the enemy is so oblivious they don't even know you're there until you blast them with your cannons. But at other times nothing seems to work, the game's predatory and intentionally bad designs become more and more apparent and you start feeling like someone at Gaijin is editing the code in real time just to fuck with you. Shells that should obliterate the enemy do nothing because volumetric makes one paper thin plate stop a shell the size and weight of a baby traveling at hundreds of kilometers per hour. Rounds that rip wings if you just so much as THINK of clicking your left mouse button suddenly do fuck all after holding said mouse down until you spend half of your fucking belt. Shells that penetrate straight through the gunner's head give him a mild fucking headache but if someone so much as sneezes at you the game will find a way to ricochet the snot off of your barrel into the paper-thin top plating. If you so much as THINK of activating a booster your next match is gonna be a full uptier against some of the most cracked players in the game and all of them are going to be Level 100's with maxed out crew and spaded vehicles playing at, like, 4.7 while YOU have to suffer using stock vehicles that just moments prior you were SO psyched about finally unlocking.
The game is genuinely evil, and the reason Gaijin didn't complain TOO much after the shit-fest of the Steam reviews is because nobody actually asked them to take care of any root problems, just the symptoms. The max BR has been nearly the same for ages despite newer and newer vehicles being added, pushing vastly better planes to fight against little baby's first jets and making it so that in some extreme cases on Ground RB you can drive a Tiger H and meet a tank with *shitting ERA.* Gaijin doesn't make a fuss about the roadmap and all the "fixes" because the things they're fixing are little things they can go without because the core of their strategy will remain intact, as described in this video.
I have stuck with Air Arcade and I use my first spawn to dash to a base and bomb it if I can in order to help win the round and then I go air to air. I play between 1 and 10 battles per day... usually 2 or 3. I stuck with a single tech tree and it's taken 1000 hrs to research most of rank 4 but I mostly still fly rank 2 and 3 because I'm not chasing top tier... I just enjoy a couple of battles in the afternoon! I found rank 1 and 2 to be quite engaging in terms of enjoying the progress but it slowed dramatically for me as I got to early rank 3. I definitely felt the pressure to keep up the momentum by adding cash but I resisted and got accustomed to not getting a new vehicle every couple of days. Years ago I was into collecting mods for Il-2 1946 but learned that I'd only actually fly 2 or 3 of them with any regularity. I like DCS for immersion but for a quick fix of military combat War Thunder serves me quite well!
I feel like this is a lot about perspective. I won't comment on premium vehicles as I agree with you on that. However, I've been playing for around 2 months now and have had a blast working my way up the tech trees in air and ground. I'm sure top tier is crazy fun, but I haven't even gotten past tier 4 yet. I've been playing all the nations to get a feel for everything. The early tiers are still an absolute blast? I will say that a basic tutorial on aerial maneuvers would be awesome, but the jump from arcade to rb wasn't really all that huge? It's been very fun to figure out what works and to learn aiming, rangefinding etc.
The only error you have made is assuming bad players main bombers on air rb. No, no,no,no, they go to ground rb to avoid this insanely unfair mechanic called counterplay. Using cas is literally just a skill issue and I’ll die on that fucking hill.
This.
Warthunder is a new age shareware.
All users have access but if you want access to best features you have to pay. This is not a new concept.
War thunder is what you make of it. The problem is many people have no impulse control. It can be a hobby a passion or compulsion like anything in life.
But if you pay, you are a moron....
Keep in mind everyone is just trying to have fun at the end of the day if bombing brings you joy then "Bombs away!" but if you want to enjoy use a mix of both. I will agree on the Buying a premium jet avoid. I bought it felt nowhere near where i wanted to be and worked my way up from the bottom.
As a casual player surrounded by people that play these games too hardcore especially in Arcade, its a game at the end of the day. Loadup have fun and Blast away.
Honestly though one possible path noobs could go down to get good is to do progression up through rank II or III in arcade then swap over to realistic. They’d have some internalization of the air combat mechanics at that point that they could build off of.
So maybe jumping into RB too quickly is the problem.
i never understood why people play bombers, so thanks for clearing up
Some of us actually LIKE ground pounding... flying at full speed 100 ft off the deck trying to slip past the fighters and through the AA defenses can be quite fun.
@@rossaldrich6357it is fun if you actually want to do it
Bombers CAN be fun, but the reason most people try them in the first place is because the gameplay loop for fighters is insanely braindead to them, for whatever reason.
I attribute it to the stock grind and altitude advantage most bombers start with. At higher tiers, it’s as our guy said, braindead gameplay loop that’s entirely unexplained to them, so they fall back on what works and guarantees them RP and SL… base bombing
@@thatcarguydom266 In the early tiers High altitude is what the bombers were designed for (and I do actually find that quite boring, tbh, so I fly strike fighters like the Mosquito), but the higher tiers where you get planes such as the F-4 and F-111, low level is where it's at. until, of course the F-15E and JDAM and JSOW come out, then we'll see it all go back to high level... That I expect will be no more fun than the fighter jocks throwing AMRAAMs at eachother from 50 miles away.
good video bro i didn't watch it yet but i know it's good
Cheers brother, you're my favorite video-not-watcher
This guy would say "i saw it in a dream" and i would believe him
Something i will agree is that this game is NOT beginner friendly at all, it requires quite alot of learning, some could even say trial by fire, which isn't really a very good thing for a game that has no SBMM.
But on another note, premium (packs) usually are 60-70 bucks (and like 2-3 times a year they are on a 50% sale) because they are a bundle, the vehicle itself costs around 40-45 bucks (which is still alot i will say), but, you can grind an entire tech tree with it, which is both a good and bad thing, good because well, you can grind the tech tree, but bad because you're essentually skipping the grind, meaning that you won't be able to learn, thus probably not having a good time while grinding, which is the other issue, it is very time consuming especially as a new player, but if you are a more experienced player it won't really take you much to grind entire tech trees.
On the bombing part, it is technically the easiest/best way to grind, as you get alot of rp and it's fairly easy, as oppossed to killing other players, but that means you'll never learn how to actually PVP in this game, as said in the video, however, one good aspect about bombing (usually in top tier) is when you're stock grinding a vehicle, as you'll be able to get your A2A mods (or A2G depending on the vehicle) faster, meaning you'll be able to actually focus on PVP.
As someone that has never bothered to play RB because I only played the game in bursts every now and then up until recently would bombing give good rewards if I just want to farm and have RUclips on the side? Basically barely playing, I’m at around BR 4.0+ in the American tree if that matters
Edit: I should clarify I play for the PvP I was just wondering if it’s a good way to farm
I really like the guts of War Thunder but I really wish the technology and simulations were in an entirely different game.
Imagine if you had a massive combined arms sim-lite battlefield with the "decent" level of fidelity and the staggering array of units that War Thunder provides.
Someone is happy with base bombers ..;-)...
I too have played for over 10 years.
I remember top teir being the Me 262.
Fortunately i like WW2 props most.
But I've recently realised how much I've spent on this game, easily in excess of 10k.
I've stopped playing it since Darktide and Helldivers showed me how much fun you should have with $100.
In Warthunder you'll spend that, take out your new fancy premium Jet out to meet players like me who eat you with a gripen 33.467 seconds into the battle. Repeatedly. And even players with lots of skill will die 2.3 seconds later from a friendly heat seeker.
Or get sniped leaving your spawn zone 45 seconds into a ground match because Gaijin can't design a map for shht.
I like that you use the original WarThunder theme in the background
I love the horten skin
Really makes you feel a certain way, doesn't it?
@@Liniyka it's a feeling I find Hard to describe
on a more serious note, war thunder is quite fun in low tier RB when you have a squad, and very ambivalent if you don't
i started playing it because of a big crush on early mustangs, and spaded them quickly, but considering the structure of the game they dont fit the meta very well
Oh it absolutely can be fun... when you know how to make your own fun
I fortunately avoided the ‘bomber’ ending by practice, die and repeat until I get better at dog fights
Never bombed but did buy a premium after hitting rank 4 and seen it was on sale. My 11.3 has taken out most top tier jets due to practice and patience
as a begginer this really helped i was a bomber main but didnt spend any money and this changed my view on the game thanks
I fell for the bombing thing when I first started, but I learned how to dogfight and now I am super good at it. Also only get a premium at your level, or what I did when you first get to jets then buy a premium jet.
i came for an grippen and found out my favorite planes are the j29 and j21 .im glad i didnt fall for the trap
I literally only ever play Soviet vehicles for the Russian bias and I still die every single time. Swedish vehicles have a lot of bias too. Sweden also has the most unique tech tree out of any country in the game.
Dude Gripen is great.
@@alfonsaberg8568 i dont want to play top tier and i really like the j29
Video summary: watch youtube, don’t bomb because some people don’t like it and Gaijin is bad.
My advice: Have fun, grind as you play, don’t play to grind. 🙂
(But anyway nice video)
But I do agree with him, throwing money at a game won’t make you enjoy it.
Personally, I didn't feel incentivized to spend the money by the initial frustration, the only time I felt like I should spend money on the game, is when I realized I had many hours of fun with the game and should give back to devs. No a huge amount, but at least something.
I started the game with Ground RB and almost stopped playing it after first month or so, as the game felt way too frustrating to play it for fun, so some work on learning curve is definitely needed imo.
I agree that the game lacks more tutorials as I found the air combat very abstract and didn't feel like I could learn it on my own. Although I didn't feel compelled to follow the path of the least resistance with bombers. So I sought some guides and found Defyn:)
Also on one hand, I like the game intending to teach you, by going through vehicles by eras, but I don't think it is nearly enough.
Recently, they integrated some tips directly to the game and they released more tutorials related to modern planes, so that's something. They also have some tutorials on their youtube channel and at least mention some guides in their wiki, but they should make it a direct part of the game for sure. If you check the percentage on even basic steam achievements, you can clearly see, that many people gave up very early.
I was stuck at 3.0 and bought an a10a after I realized how slow and vulnerable the a10 was, I purchased an 11.3 mig 23 ml on a half-off sale. At first, it was frustrating but then I got a good at it but I still have the most fun playing prop planes with my friends. Even though it is quite hard to grind it's still a blast even more if you have friends to play it with. Even though I agree with this video and even subbed I wouldn't let this video turn you away from War Thunder if you were considering it. It's a very well-built game especially if you have a friend to guide you. DONT BUY PREMUIMS
Ive played since the end of 2013 and I almost disagree with all of this. Maybe 5% holds any water and the rest is just a cope. Videos like this only attract those who look for a reason why they are in the position they are. Literally contributing to the issue that is the general "Feel" about this game. Which creates a Death loop solving nothing. Just an Echo chamber, which the comments support.
I'm sorry your wallet warrior heart got hurt 😢
I unlocked the su22m3 a few days ago half of each team are premiums with bombs going to bases he is absolutely right
Yeah tell this to any guy that ever played 11.3-12.3 with 50-80% of both teams are filled with F-4S’s that do literally nothing except going straight line to the base and then die, same with 9.3+ br where A-5s, Milanes, Harriers and A-10s do absolutely the same and 50+% of both teams are filled with these planes as well
“Gaijin has stated that 20% of the War Thunder's total player base over the course of its life time has spent at least something towards the game.”
20% is on the lower end, yet it so common for me to see premium vehicles. Pretty common to see F5C when I play 9.7.
Almost seems like it such be more than 20%
In what way? I’m not disagreeing with either side but I noticed you don’t really go into detail.
War thunder does only Release new vehicles now and nothing else. A map here and there also.
There certainly isn’t much that helps newer players learn. And the time to get to actual fighting on Air Realistic makes the learning curve harder since when you die it will take another 10 minutes for 10 seconds of action while you are learning
Air arcade also has a learning curve. But it’s way faster since the action starts instantly. And you can respawn to try again
As a person who play in there free time and im only at 7.7 after 150hours in the game is crazy 💀
My favorite thing is when a Isreal premium m48 comes with era and apfsds when my m48 comes with sold shot
how in the fuck are you 7.7 in such a short time??
I mostly focused on American air and it took me like 300 hours to get the Sabre.
@@corvettezone1771 I Bought the tiger 2 h and p with gold and skipped then put a talisman on my maus my best tank
@@corvettezone1771i grinder france for like half a year and i was at 3.7💀
lol 7.7 after 150h. im barely at 6.0 in one nation and 4.0 in three other nations after almost 900h
lmao im 3.7 after playing for 70 hours
the point on the game being hard to learn is not that much of an issue if you have friends that play the game, when i was new they explained how to play and what to do.
I remember when getting to the last planes and tanks was relatively easy in arcade, then you could play realistic and simulation.
What made me quit is returning to the game and realizing that getting to the modern planes and tanks was genuinely impossible without paying and that even in the lowest tiers you have a lot of smurfs, simply War Thunder now is not fun to play and not worth it if you are new.
And yes, if you see that you don't get anywhere, leave the game, don't spend money because if you pay for a Jet you will be with the most veteran and sweaty in the game who will knock you down without even starting the match.
You had me until the point about bombers. No, bombers both as playable and NPC as well as NPC ground targets are essential to this game. PVP isn't the point of War Thunder nor is PvE. War Thunder was made as P+EvP+E. Cool, interasting stuff is done by players, boring repetetive stuff is done by Bots like patrols, area formation bombing, convoys or stationary defence. Allways has been that way. Players fly intercept missions in fighters, close air support in attackers and tactical precision bombing in bombers. This is when War Thunder is the best. Without bombers/attackers and ground targets connected to tickets that can be bled out with CAS game would quickly turn into high alt space climb contest, stalemate would make game boring and unplayable. Introducing ground targets is the best what could happen to Air Battles. Fighters make no sense as concept unless there is a target worth getting after in the air. Air combat evolved because people realised bombs can be dropped from aircrafts and the best way to stop them was to mount machineguns onto light and manoeuvrable planes and use them against bombers. Fighters vs fighters is in essence a pointless concept, might aswell skip the pilot trening and planes and just give them rifles and send to frontlines. Well designed bombing is necessary for a healthy Air RB and AB. Low flying Attckers and bombers force fighters to go low and abandon altitude advantage which breaks stalemate that might appear instead. If you destroy enemy escort fighters as an interceptor but fail to destroy bombers that penetrate your defences then enemy fighter that are destroyed have actually won the battle in the long run. Air combat is no chivalry, no one is going to 1v1 you in fighter just for the sake of it. There should allways be a possibility to shoot down most enemy aircrafts and still lose to one heavy bomber droping bombs on your vulnerable target. You job is to destroy as many of enemy bots as possible while protecting your own.
Also stop romanticizing old top tier. It wasn't as great as you remeber it. Many times MiG-15 bises just climbed endlessly or Hunter F1/Sabres F-2 flew in straight line away with performance of many top tier jets so similar it made it allmost impossible to win 1v1 when enemy got behind you. Not to mention it was never balanced. CL-13 mk5 were 5% better performing than other jets and dominated top tier for couple of years. Sure it was less chaotic. Only people who see acquiring top tier jets a reward for long grind can dislike top tier jet premiums. Skill can't be bought, im confident in my skills if a new player want's to purchase his way into top tier, I'm happy to fight against them. Most Air kill are opportunistic anyway, 85% of kills if you look closely are against planes at a significant disadvantge, lower BR, lower performance, damaged, out fuel/ammo, etc. Most kills aren't fighter vs fighter in 1v1 in perfect conditions. you'd find those kinds of duels exhausting and suffocating very fast, and if not you most players would and they did in fact which is why we have what we have right now in top tier and it's not bad. AAMs are a great equalizer.
Woah, nice post. Regarding the first part, I would agree with you if bombing was interesting or engaging in WT. But it's just not. It's a repetitive process of flying to bases and pressing spacebar. And these days fighters can already destroy most ground targets on their own, so bobers are redundand. If RB was reworked to actually accommodate bombers in an interesting way, then maybe. But as is, bobers are both useless AND boring.
Now, old toptier? Of course it wasn't perfect, and as you mentioned it wasn't exactly balanced a lot of the time. But it was good, despite its flaws. Skill mattered. In the current top tier skill still matters, but when you have 32 planes with 6/8 omega IRCCM missiles in the air, and half of them have no idea how to play, it just gets silly. I'd take old top tier over the current missile circus any day.
@@Liniyka I hope I didn't come as too agressive in my post, I was typing quickly. I've been playing WT since 2013 and many things were inevitable. A game needs to evolve to stay relevant and alive. Modern vehicles would come sooner or later. WT has a competition too and not only WoT or AW. Those who play WT also play Battlefields, CoDs and other alike. My first paragraph is essentially a defense of bombing and ground attack as a idea not execution of it by Gaijin. Could see a lot of improvement. I recieved your comment as implying we should get rid of it altogether. Was trying to make a cese for it in general.
Skill still matters but as with modern war which is more reliant on technology so is it's digital representation in game. Modern Jets without modern missiles would be as ridiculis as modern MBTs with WW2 APHE shells. Yes gameplay evolves, and I belive it's a good thing. You can still play F-86 or MiG-15 if you want. The fact is there was a very short period when jets didn't have AAM. For most of their service they were however equipped with Missiles and this remain a critical component of modern jet fighters. Definition of skill simply evolve along with technology. What takes more skill, maneuvers or climbing ? Dogfighting or energyfighting ? There is no simple Yes or No answer, different players different tactics in defferent machines all viable as long as well performed. Proper use of AAMs whilst dodging enemy AAMs or deploying IRCM is a different kind of skill but skill nonetheless. Same with modern tanks with laser rangefinders, thermals and APFSDS-T. if people do not know how to play just use it as a way to grind, enjoy easy game while it lasts. Thats war, sometimes you come up against a veteran and sometimes a newbie.
Your entire thesis falls apart when you consider how pve has basically had 0 meaningful development, while 16v16 has strapped PvP to the least skillful combat possible.
@@Soul-Clutch-Man I din't say it was good. I said its a necessity. P+EvP+E is a core design of the game. No, my thesis does not fall apart, you just proved it. Since low flying attackers and bombers are responsible for winning or loosing why can't fighters work around this and develop a better tactic. It's easier to get kills as a fighter when half of enemy team is in heavy loaded attackers. The reason for current attacker/bomber meta is because burden of strategical and financial thinking was moved from central command onto indivitual pilots. In reality pilots do not worry about costs of missiles or bombs they worry about getting them to designated targets or protecting those who will. Players play in least complicated way to achive the best score in the shortest time frame to maximalize RP&SL gain. It's simply efficient. Most planes are not competetive and those few that are, are still a subjet to up-tiers. In an environment in which the main goal of the game is a digital financial gain whoever gets their way in the best way is the winner. You simply represent other efficeint tactic. Instead of low/medium gain in very short time counting a loss of a plane and full repair cost to spend 5min in game to bomb 2 bases and move on to the next game you choose to stay longer in game and get kills. Low risk-low reward vs high risk high reward, nothing more. Nobody os going to rewaerd you for digital air combat victories in a video game. Some players enjoy the feeling of being a bomber pilot, some just need to skip some reseach in a quick way. In my opinion you still win as a fighter pilot having more targets. You just don't like the fackt that someone might have better results with tactic you disapprove of.
I love to play Harriers and Etandards. They sit right in between a fighter and attacker. They are maneuverable enough to dogfight, carry missiles and bombs aswell as good cannons. I focus on bombing a base than attacking tanks and slowly dropping enemy tickets, counter enemy bombers and attackers with missiles and prolonging dogfights with fighters to force interceptors to lose altitude and speed advantage and make them easy target for my teammates and accasionaly get a jum on them when they do not expect. Maby current combat is skillful just you haven't learnd it yet.
It's all good man. Yeah you can still fly the good ol jets, but a lot of them are kind of crippled by uptiers into supersonics/good missiles. In fact a lot of planes are crippled by uptiers. This game is sure full of awesome mechanics, don't u think?
I got so lucky in my first premium being the MiG-21S (R-13-300) It forced me to learn to fly and fight because it CANNOT BOMB. Now i have a 6:0 KD in multiple props because i went back to learn how to play props and i actually had some knowledge on flying!
8:25 I was one of the few F9F-5 main. I loved that time and I miss it so much.
As a new player that is f2p, i can say that the "noob" that you're describing are accurate, tried my best learning dogfights however i cant even do a cas run on a stationary target yet. So i have a long way to go, i mainly play ground rb, but i do sometimes play air rb or arcade just to improve my dogfight skills.
Rank 1 is actually nice to play and besides a new player wouldn't be able to properly utilize the new jets, the interface of radar, missiles and control system gets complicated.
The real issue with this game is that it pretty much ignores actual years of debut of each vehicle or how long they would serve in their initial develiper country, and tries to equalize every single vehicle in 'Battle Rating'.
The result is most obvious with heavy tanks; They are totally useless in the game because they have the same battle rating as 30-40 years newer cars, and 20-30 years newer tanks of lighter types, so they can be killed by anything and can't even react to faster vehicles flanking them.