When I did my shunters course in 1995 we were told that Dover was the only place that a simultaneous shunt movement was legally allowed to happen. This was so whilst loading/unloading the vessel didn't become unstable and capsized. Thank you for posting this remarkable footage
@@z00h Only in the context of loading and unloading a rail ferry. It's a lot of mass moving about on a floating vessel otherwise. In regular yards anything goes in comparison.
Do you ever get used to the horrendous screeching, or do you just wear extremely good hearing protection? It makes the London underground sound peaceful lol
Thanks for uploading this. Everything is gone now but you really added to a historical record with this vid of a neglected subject of day-to-day railway freight. These hard-working little type 3s were perfectly suited to this work - that's quite a climb up the link span. One surprise for me is the locomotives entered the ship - Did not know that was permitted, even to the point the southern had a small fleet of "Reach trucks" - converted bogie flats, to keep the locomotive (or rather, its mass) off the ship. I guess later ships were better able to deal with it. Really interesting - thanks
We were surprised when we saw that they went on to the ship at the time. We got very lucky with the timing as we just turned up to take some pictures before the tunnel opened and chanced to arrive at the time the ferry came in.
What a great video, I wish I'd had the foresight to go along to Dover to watch this myself in the day . I lived in Gravesend too . Great to see slim Jim's working . They always were my favourite sub class of the cromptons . Wonderful memories. Thanks for the memories . -bud the painter -
Nice - it was exactly 4 weeks before my first trip to the UK - by rail and via Dover Western Docks. There were no through trains for passengers - so I had disembark and take the train to London Victoria - some classic Network South East EMUs - at least as "classic" as with the Berlin S-Bahn trains still in use back then. I haven't seen many freight trains in England back then - only some old short wheelbase trucks on sidings. Interesting that the UK railway did have freight trains back then - with fairly large cars too.
I have the vaugest memories on being on the night train ferry from Dover to France back in the mid to late 50's . I remeber some military being also their...
I recall one evening in Calais being put on this ferry with two coaches and passengers. We parked between the train and the passengers had to walk around the carriages.
Thank you very much indeed for this video…excellent! I’ve seen the disused link spans both at Dover and Harwjch but I’ve never seen them used. I had no idea that the Class 33 locos would venture right onto the ferry…it was quite a surprise and I was impressed with the parallel running of the 33s to keep the ship stabilised and on an even keel! I always though they kept the locos shore-side, using long empty wagons to keep them from venturing in the ship. I always say I learn something new every day! What happened to the old train ferries after the Channel Tunnel opened? I remember the Hampton ferry and several others but as they were so specialised , if they couldn’t be converted they’d end up being scrapped. I remember the .Italian Interfrigo wagons but they seemed to be mostly using Harwjch, not Dover. The last time I used a train ferry it was to Sicily…and that was a very slick operation indeed! Many thanks and I have subscribed, looking forward to more interesting videos. Best wishes, Rob in Bournemouth.
Some long lost happy times recalled. I took plenty of still, but no video, back in the early 1980s when I was Training Officer at Sealink - before privatisation.
Train Ferry Office was in B-Shed, Western Docks. Custom Documents at the Entry Room, Southern House. All Express Parcels at the A-Shed. Western Docks. All Railfreight International work was transferred to Eurotunnel, Dollands Moor when the train ferry stopped and started going through the tunnel in 1988.
@@ivorwhitecar it did. I should know as I was working in train ferry office until 1989. My error. Construction started on Dollands Moor 1998 and WD closed September 1994 when rail freight switched to the Tunnel. My memory is a bit vague but I’m sure I had an interview in 1993 with Rail freight distribution to work at Dollands and that would’ve pre-dated the tunnel opening so something in my memory tells me that the offices were operational for documentation before the tunnel opening.
From around 2016 it had been renamed as MS Al Andalus Express and was doing the crossing between Spain and Morocco, but more lately between the Canary Isles.
I’ve noticed that some people in the comments have called these 33s slim Jims? And I have looked it up and it has said they had narrower bodies compared to the the regular 33s but I haven’t found an explanation of why the 33/2s had narrower bodies? Why were they narrower? Can someone explain please?👍😁
They were built to the Hastings line loading gauge which was required to go through Bo peep tunnel. I believe the tunnel was later made single track so the loading gauge restriction was removed. This is my understanding.
Unfortunately not much I don't think. Remember going on the beach and climbing on the wall to see the trains. Last time we went I don't think you could even get to the beach! Believe the impressive Western Docks Station, or at least its facade is listed. But very different! Wouldn't imagine with security today that it would be so open either, as it was back then.
Remember that old tub it ended up as truck freight only used to be good food on it to It broke down about 2011 it ended up in Dunkirk for a while then towed away for scrap
@@updistant705 learn something new it sat in Dunkirk for ages as it had big engine troubles as I was on a DFDS heading to UK as it was getting towed in
How much freight goes via Eurotunnel compared with these ferries? And is there an alternative to ET for freight traffic incase it couldn't be used or is it a case of "sorry, we didn't think that through"?
@@TheSonic10160 I'm sure it is more economical, when everything is running well. Any sort of situation which takes the tunnel out of operation for longer period of time would lead to a general cluster fuk, since there's no alternative crossing for rail traffic to mainland.
Interesting to see those two axle DB waggons. Surely all of them are already scrapped. What has happened to those VTG Tiphook Ferrywaggons! Are they still in use ?
The tunnels on both 'classic ' routes from Dover were too restricted for containers: Pedigree Petfoods sent both containers and ferry vans via conventional rail within France, thence via the Train Ferry, but the containers had to be transhipped on to road trailers upon arrival at Dover.
They were more than powerful enough. They had taken over from class 09s and then after issues were found in, I think, 1993 with the class 33s' superchargers, class 08s took over shunting the train ferry until the Channel Tunnel opened.
RUclips is the best alternative to a time machine, love videos of industry gone by.
When I did my shunters course in 1995 we were told that Dover was the only place that a simultaneous shunt movement was legally allowed to happen. This was so whilst loading/unloading the vessel didn't become unstable and capsized. Thank you for posting this remarkable footage
Are you saying that in other large shunting yards this is not allowed? That would be insanely inefficient.
@@z00h i was a passenger train shunter. What happened in a yard I don't know
@@z00h Only in the context of loading and unloading a rail ferry. It's a lot of mass moving about on a floating vessel otherwise.
In regular yards anything goes in comparison.
Do you ever get used to the horrendous screeching, or do you just wear extremely good hearing protection? It makes the London underground sound peaceful lol
This is brilliant, forgive my ignorance, I never knew rolling stock went by ferry! Does it still work..? Always interesting to learn something new!
The engines went in two by two, hurrah, hurrah...
Thanks for uploading this. Everything is gone now but you really added to a historical record with this vid of a neglected subject of day-to-day railway freight. These hard-working little type 3s were perfectly suited to this work - that's quite a climb up the link span. One surprise for me is the locomotives entered the ship - Did not know that was permitted, even to the point the southern had a small fleet of "Reach trucks" - converted bogie flats, to keep the locomotive (or rather, its mass) off the ship. I guess later ships were better able to deal with it.
Really interesting - thanks
We were surprised when we saw that they went on to the ship at the time. We got very lucky with the timing as we just turned up to take some pictures before the tunnel opened and chanced to arrive at the time the ferry came in.
Wow, i had no idea they operated into the 1990's. Love the old daf 3300 on the dockside with the lowloader.
What a great video, I wish I'd had the foresight to go along to Dover to watch this myself in the day . I lived in Gravesend too . Great to see slim Jim's working . They always were my favourite sub class of the cromptons . Wonderful memories. Thanks for the memories . -bud the painter -
Class 47s handled the run to Dundee via Maidstone Dartford Wembley and north to Scotland.
This is very informative and interesting about the Dover Train Ferry
This was awesome! Thanks so much for sharing!!!
Thank you for sharing this on your channel, i enjoyed that. I've so much about that but never seen it done.
Great video - excellent quality. 2 yrs later the Channel Tunnel killed linkspan rail traffic stone dead.
What a fascinating video. Really great. Thanks for sharing!
Great footage, thanks for sharing 🙏👏
Great video and amazing to see the 33's working in unison 💯👍🏻
Nice - it was exactly 4 weeks before my first trip to the UK - by rail and via Dover Western Docks. There were no through trains for passengers - so I had disembark and take the train to London Victoria - some classic Network South East EMUs - at least as "classic" as with the Berlin S-Bahn trains still in use back then. I haven't seen many freight trains in England back then - only some old short wheelbase trucks on sidings. Interesting that the UK railway did have freight trains back then - with fairly large cars too.
great video many thanks for posting
Love it!! Two 'Cromptons' moving in unison!!!!!
I have the vaugest memories on being on the night train ferry from Dover to France back in the mid to late 50's . I remeber some military being also their...
Brilliant Vid, Really enjoyed watching how it was at Dover....and watching those two 33.
Glad you enjoyed it
Amazing footage! Must have been great to watch.
What a great video - Thanks
Good bit of filming from 30 years ago, l had the pub outside the Western Docks in 1980.
brilliant!
This is awesome, I never even knew it used to happen guess I'm just too young and the Tunnel just old enough
Amazing video!
I recall one evening in Calais being put on this ferry with two coaches and passengers. We parked between the train and the passengers had to walk around the carriages.
I never went to Dover Western docks Station.
I'll be in Dover on Tuesday night.
Will have a walk around the town and see what's left of the docks
Brilliant video!
Super wideo ok filmiki pozdrawiam serdecznie 🌍 kolego 🙂
some kind of drag train race , very nice video
Thank you very much indeed for this video…excellent! I’ve seen the disused link spans both at Dover and Harwjch but I’ve never seen them used. I had no idea that the Class 33 locos would venture right onto the ferry…it was quite a surprise and I was impressed with the parallel running of the 33s to keep the ship stabilised and on an even keel! I always though they kept the locos shore-side, using long empty wagons to keep them from venturing in the ship. I always say I learn something new every day! What happened to the old train ferries after the Channel Tunnel opened? I remember the Hampton ferry and several others but as they were so specialised , if they couldn’t be converted they’d end up being scrapped. I remember the .Italian Interfrigo wagons but they seemed to be mostly using Harwjch, not Dover. The last time I used a train ferry it was to Sicily…and that was a very slick operation indeed! Many thanks and I have subscribed, looking forward to more interesting videos. Best wishes, Rob in Bournemouth.
I did the Villa St. Giovanni to Messina Railferry this July. Great experience in a trenitalia sleepertrain.
The Nord Pas-de-Calais is now called the Al Andalus Express and runs between the islands in the Canaries.
Wonderful. Those tight radiuses and the steep incline are apparently unbelievably easily taken by the locos.
How they make allignment or connections between ship tracks and main tracks..?
Some long lost happy times recalled. I took plenty of still, but no video, back in the early 1980s when I was Training Officer at Sealink - before privatisation.
Stonking footage, thanks for sharing!
Where is the explanation commentary?
Are they loading or unloading the Ferry?
Interesting video ❤️
Synchronised shunting, was it only the Slim Jims that did this, I notice that some of the wagons were wider
Train Ferry Office was in B-Shed, Western Docks. Custom Documents at the Entry Room, Southern House. All Express Parcels at the A-Shed. Western Docks. All Railfreight International work was transferred to Eurotunnel, Dollands Moor when the train ferry stopped and started going through the tunnel in 1988.
The tunnel opened in 1994?
@@ivorwhitecar it did. I should know as I was working in train ferry office until 1989. My error. Construction started on Dollands Moor 1998 and WD closed September 1994 when rail freight switched to the Tunnel. My memory is a bit vague but I’m sure I had an interview in 1993 with Rail freight distribution to work at Dollands and that would’ve pre-dated the tunnel opening so something in my memory tells me that the offices were operational for documentation before the tunnel opening.
Anyone know what the ferry wagon on the trailer was used for? Seems to have some sort of jacks at each end.
This is very cool and everything, but you can see how the Chunnel was a way more efficient solution here.
What an insight! On the other hand, I'm th 200th person to like this video!
Thanks. 30 years ago but seems to me like yesterday.
After you, ol chap!
the nord pas de calais was a fine looking ship,sailed it many times back in the day,i wonder where it is now and if it still survives.
From around 2016 it had been renamed as MS Al Andalus Express and was doing the crossing between Spain and Morocco, but more lately between the Canary Isles.
Very Interesting vid.
Went through there scores if times to go to school in the uk
Wonder if any of the Class 33's at Dover are still around?
Interesting the balanced weight distribution during synchronised loading
I’ve noticed that some people in the comments have called these 33s slim Jims? And I have looked it up and it has said they had narrower bodies compared to the the regular 33s but I haven’t found an explanation of why the 33/2s had narrower bodies? Why were they narrower? Can someone explain please?👍😁
They were built to the Hastings line loading gauge which was required to go through Bo peep tunnel. I believe the tunnel was later made single track so the loading gauge restriction was removed. This is my understanding.
@@brucestrong5942 oh ok cheers
What a fantastic video, Any of this infrastructure left ?
Unfortunately not much I don't think. Remember going on the beach and climbing on the wall to see the trains. Last time we went I don't think you could even get to the beach! Believe the impressive Western Docks Station, or at least its facade is listed. But very different! Wouldn't imagine with security today that it would be so open either, as it was back then.
Initial climb!!!
Two Hastings 33's
Remember that old tub it ended up as truck freight only used to be good food on it to
It broke down about 2011 it ended up in Dunkirk for a while then towed away for scrap
Wrong, now renamed MS Al Andalus Express and currently operates between Spain and Morocco.
@@updistant705 learn something new it sat in Dunkirk for ages as it had big engine troubles as I was on a DFDS heading to UK as it was getting towed in
Thanks for this great bit of history. I am still looking for containers being offloaded off ships and onto trains. Or vice versa.
Nice 'Crompton' @ .57!!!!!
How much freight goes via Eurotunnel compared with these ferries? And is there an alternative to ET for freight traffic incase it couldn't be used or is it a case of "sorry, we didn't think that through"?
None. When the tunnel opened almost all cross-channel rail freight went by the tunnel, to the point that these docks closed.
@@TheSonic10160 that's ridiculous...
@@z00h Why? It's much more economical to run the tunnel and run freight through the tunnel. The conclusion that the ferries would stop was forgone.
@@TheSonic10160 I'm sure it is more economical, when everything is running well. Any sort of situation which takes the tunnel out of operation for longer period of time would lead to a general cluster fuk, since there's no alternative crossing for rail traffic to mainland.
@@z00h don't let Russia know!
how do they line up the ship so well so that the trains don't derail?
Practice.
Probably locking the ferry with clamps.
5:10 Wow, these railjoints don't look very smooth...
Interesting to see those two axle DB waggons. Surely all of them are already scrapped. What has happened to those VTG Tiphook Ferrywaggons! Are they still in use ?
Wonder if this still happens to this day, but without the Comptons of course?
Not in Dover!
8:20 🚂🚂👍
Ouch, those are some squeaky flanges!
Why didn’t they use containers? The Tiphooks looked modular but I couldn’t tell.
Those are carrying steel coils, containers aren't strong enough for that.
@@professorjamesmoriarty5191 Ahh thank you.
In 1992, containerized shipping was nowhere as important as it is now
The tunnels on both 'classic ' routes from Dover were too restricted for containers: Pedigree Petfoods sent both containers and ferry vans via conventional rail within France, thence via the Train Ferry, but the containers had to be transhipped on to road trailers upon arrival at Dover.
@@lmcollis7949 Ahh thanks.
What’s happened to the Nord Pas de Calais ?…?
now renamed MS Al Andalus Express it currently operates between Spain and Morocco.
@@updistant705 Thanks for that ! As a truck driver I crossed to France and back on it many times.
I have pictures of it from a few years ago, when it was alongside at Calais for maintenance.
Didn't think the 33s would be powerful enough
They're a type 3, slightly less powerful than a 37.
They were more than powerful enough. They had taken over from class 09s and then after issues were found in, I think, 1993 with the class 33s' superchargers, class 08s took over shunting the train ferry until the Channel Tunnel opened.
@@kevino6618 lol in that case I'm surprised an 08 could haul that consist up that gradient!
@@chriso8485 all down to gearing. This is why shunters are so powerful but have rubbish top end and deltics were fast but rubbish initial take-off
drag race at 3:40, C'mon boys! Floor it!
I wonder why that one wagon was on a lorry instead of on the rails.
I have a feeling that it was destined for one of the Channel Tunnel construction sites.
Proper job that
U know u'r in deep shit when 2 identical locomotives approach you menacingly side by side
Hellen Keller would be able to hear the flanges screeching in the yard!! I wonder if they've heard of track lubricators!!!!
It’s all low speed. And you don’t want grease all over the rails, that was a real pull off the boat, depending on the tide of course.
why do british trains always look grimy and dirty?
From 1990s to 2022.
Now it's dinghy that come ashore
Very like the 001 class Irish loco