Epic Steam train fail at Exeter: 80080 (& 80079) cannot make the grade - 1st May 1994.
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- A classic and epic fail of Steam to tackle the severe 1:37 grade from Exeter St. Davids to Exeter Central took place on the evening of 1st May 1994. 80080 and 80079 were on a mini railtour from Exeter to Exmouth, when the ascent of the incline proved too much for the Standard 4s. Eventually - and after much burning of metal - the ensemble crested the grade and continued on their journey.
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They certainly had some difficulty, but I wouldn't call it a "fail". They clearly did "make the grade" with persistence.
Sky go
Had to stop" Fail. Lost momentum, fail. 100% stall at the lights, worthy of the lols he got.
Tooright Graeme, they succeeded in the task presented to them
Throttle man asleep at the wheel. Way too much over rev.
That's just bad driving - lack of experience.
What do you mean - epic fail? That was a magnificent triumph in overcoming the challenge!
Absolutely, but epic fail videos likely get more views than magnificent triumph.
Fantastic video though.
nah mate, they failed
Nah mate, he left it laying sparks for too long and failed to bring it up to speed under the bridge while the engine was attempting 60. On top of that, smoke was allowed to billow in excess of safe limits while under the bridge, creating a hazard of carbon monoxide.
An experienced engineer would bring it a little bit over the speed limit before reaching the bridge to combat the upcoming grade and make it through in 30-60 flat
No where near a failure! The engineers did a brilliant job getting the old girls up and over. At our age you have to expect a little slippage now and then! :-)
Still blows my mind how such a small foot print of metal on metal can have such friction
It doesn't :-) that's the problem.
@@mpellatt Well it does when you consider the amount its pulling and the incline
The wheels and railhead will have suffered from that performance.
New tyres, please.
Congratulations driver.
( That's an awfully heavy train for such a loco )
having achieved that all is AWESOME
80080 was clearly whistling for more assistance from 80079, but never received it in time. With the train then stalled, it would be difficult for either driver of each loco to time their restarts in sync with one another, resulting in the lead engine and most likely the rear engine off camera, losing their feet several times. Dramatic and incredible as it is, I agree it's painful to watch.
I'm not sure that they were whistling for assistance - just as an indication they were coming. An assistance call is a "crow". Both engines can be heard working hard up the bank at the start (exhaust sounds out of sync, the unique sound of two engines) and it's a frustrating case of so near and yet so far. They are right at the top of the bank and if the lead engine hadn't slipped they would have made it fine. Looking hard at the track there seems to be an undulation and the middle driving wheels may have lost contact with the track. With adhesion close to the limit that may have started the slip. They did well to get restarted. I still wonder why the driver (who would be out of sight on the left hand side) couldn't stop the slipping quicker - regulator difficult to control at full steam pressure? I have a feeling there was an actual case of a train getting stuck on the bank around that time which made the authorities very wary of scheduling repeats.
@@iankemp1131 reference Epic Steam train fail at Exeter., thank you for your very illuminating comment., Acknowledging wheel slippage is an ancient problem as far as steam trains are concerned; I didn't know there was a protocol for overcoming the difficulty if two locomotives were employed on a single train. Thank you. John, Perth, Western Australia,.
@@iankemp1131 If he's on the second regulator they can be hard to shut off ,often have to giver her bit more before you can shut off , heard this from my dad and grandad , both mainline steam drivers , it did run away a few times though
@@nounoufriend1442 Very interesting point. I believe this was true of Stanier regulators on the LMS in particular, it was implicated in the Chapel-en-le-Frith runaway in 1957 when a driver couldn't shut the regulator after a steam pipe blew. The BR 80xxx class were very similar to LMS 2-6-4s but I don't know if the regulator was of a different design.
@@iankemp1131 Remember my dad saying some drivers were frightened to use second regulator .My dad was was Immingham Louth Grimsby driver on BR so be 8F 9F Britannia's , grandad was GC Grimsby. Runaway on steam loco must be scary , even if you drop the fire there is still lot of steam . Think best thing would be to set reverser back to centre , apparently some drivers opened reg with reverser centred then wound it into forward gear to pull away. If fireman had injectors open to long , could wet seam cause regulator problems ? . But surly fireman wouldn't be filling boiler just before such an incline , should have sorted boiler and fire way before incline
It’s easy to criticise others. As an now retired train driver I think those two drivers did an incredible job in recovering from that. Wheel slip in extremely hard to control, be it steam or electric locomotive. From the time the video started you could tell they were in trouble. Well done to both drivers.
It all seemed to be going well to me until close to the top of the bank when the slip started - so near and yet so far. What puzzled me is why it took the driver so long to close the regulator each time - then again, that can be difficult against a big steam flow in a slip, as was sadly proved by Blue Peter not long afterwards during 1994.
Throttle action on a steam locomotive is similar to a diesel locomotive only more extreme. There is a time delay from when the driver opens or closes the throttle and when the action actually happens. It is possible that the driver had closed the throttle and the response time was long. I haven’t driven steam, however, steam locomotives where very much in use when I started my driving career in 1973. So I was able to observe from the footplate what happened or sometimes didn’t happen.
Maybe it needed Lionel Magnatraction? LOL ! Actually my impression is that it had way too many cars and what they had, was too full of passengers for that grade. Fewer cars would have made to run a lot less scary for all.
@@SoCal_Jerry 1994 was relatively early days for main line steam and they sometimes loaded trains closer to the limit; there were a couple of other stalls on other trains on gradients including another one at Exeter. The snag is that every carriage less costs thousands of pounds of lost revenue, and these trains are expensive to run. They have to be commercially viable - they aren't subsidised.
How many others here let out a Hooray when they finally managed it?!
I just saw 80080 the other week she's a wonderful and powerful machine. She dragged load 4 and a dead class 73 on the Ecclesbourne Valley the other day
That was so amazing! Not seen anything like it. Well done Cab crew and driver!
So many 'experts' on here commenting who have probably never touched the regulator on a steam loco!
That engine is going to need brand new tires.
...😅 burnt some ' rubber' didn't it
I'm sure there's some dents in the rails as well...
NASTY GRADIENT EVEN STALLED A CLASS 50 !!!
Indeed neither loco failed. And amazingly enough they were able to restart on the horrendous gradient. Very good for two BR Standard Class 4 Tanks, with what appears to be 10 x Mk 1's. When you consider that a Class 50 2,700hp Diesel & 9 Mk2's slipped to a halt before the tunnel one morning whilst working the 06.30 Exeter St. David's to Waterloo service. I had to get a Class 37 from the loco yard, to give the train a shove up to Central station. There is one other problem on this gradient, there were two "Trap points" on the "Up Line". Meaning if you stall, and ANY of the trains vehicles are over either trap point, you must NOT allow the train to roll back when trying to restart. Hence it was safer in the case of the Class 50, to simply ask for banking assistance !
I don’t think a good driver would let the loco slip that badly, seemed more worried about blowing the whistle than the fact the engine was doing 60mph and not moving…
The whistle is to signal the banker for assistance
@@welsh_Witch don't they use radios to communicate?
Obviously in 1994 you did not have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to be qualified to drive a steam locomotive. Seriously, it was a very amateur effort, taking way too long to arrest the wheel slips, in fact lt appeared the driver was hoping the train would move sufficiently if he left the loco laying sparks on the tracks. That in itself can be dangerous and cause the locomotive to totally break down mechanically.
I was thinking of the line in the 'Oh, Mr Porter' film about letting all the steam out!🙂
And then that following October, 60532 "Blue Peter" would fail by doing approx 140mph and not moving..
Great video but sadly this is painfull to watch at times.
Fat controller would have hauled the engineers over the coals for all that excessive wheel spin. A bit slow on the throttle I feel. The sparks were terrifying.
If I remember anything from my time watching Thomas the Tank engine as a kid. It's that in situations like these, you need men with shovels and buckets of sand. And to keep the engine going slow and steady. Even on my old V8, in the wet, you put it in 1st and plant your foot down, you're not going anywhere, you'll just spin the wheels.
Very impressive video and you can say the driver didnt try. It is asking a lot from both engines to pull that weight up the bank as you dont get a great run up to it and it is not far short of the Lickey incline . Every carriage was stuffed full of people so it couldnt have been any heavier. I go along with other comments that question if it was advisable to take that route. Of course thats down to the organisers and those that approve it. It would have been more advisable to have a lighter train.
Can you believe it’s 30 years since this was filmed
When I Think 30 years I think of the 80s 😐
Don't! I dread thinking how time has flown!
Seems to be a lack of traction rather then power.
Need a Z class on the back. Problem there they have to go forward because of the spring loaded catch points, can't go back for another go.
I'm surprised that the two locos had so much trouble, with a combined power classification in British Rail terms of 8MT on 11 coaches. I used to see these locos regularly on the LT&S line tackling the gradients between Chalkwell and Southend Central with up to 11 coaches single handed. My imprssion is that the banker wasn't pulling its weight and the regulator on thw leading engine wasn't shut down quickly enough when the wheels started slipping.
Was that grade 1 in 37?
I don't know the exact grade but probably not as steep as 1 in 37.@@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire
@@rodsmith2031 It looks like for Chalkwell to Southend Central max grade is 1 in 80.
So a single Class 4 2-6-4T with 8 or 11 coaches (it varied)? Not bad, day in, day out.
@@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire
looks for me that the track was damp, just enough to one of them loss traction a little and in combination that there is a bit delay between throttle adjustment until something happens are big enough for them to lose it fully.
The difference between a good and really good driver can be noticed, a really good driver, can almost predict what is coming next.
That's one way to bend the valve gear/coupling rods
and corrugate the rails.
I always remember waiting at Exeter and I think it was St David's and this must have been some 60 years ago in my youth and I remember a Merchant Navy spam cam pulling just 2 coaches taking a flying run and going hell for leather up a really steep slope out of the station. It was a strange spectacle I have never forgotten. If it this climb hardly suprising these locos struggled.
Most likely would have been to get up from St David's to Exeter Central
@@TheIndianChins It certainly was.
The gradient of the slope from St David's up to Central I believe is the steepest in the country, for a train from a standing start.
With the stone trains (from Meldon?) and a 9F, there was always a banker, such as a class Z.
Yes it is the same incline. On an Hst trip via this steep slope, my cup of tea was at such an angle it spilled into the saucer.
@@deang5622 Mortehoe bank up from Ilfracombe was as steep, but no trains there for over fifty years now. Lickey Incline is equally steep but not taken from a standing start at the bottom...
Well that's one way how to do rail head grinding
Even the pigeon scarpered at 2:31
Very poor footplate work especially by the driver and possibly by the banker, this would have never happened in Southern Region days, even with the Plymouth portion of the ACE coming up from St.Davids with 9 coaches it was pulled by class 7 Pacific and probably banked by class 6F Z tank. It then collected another 3 coaches at Central Station with the WC/BB probably coming off and a Salisbury MN replacing it. One can only imagine if any retired Exmouth Junction crews were watching this at Central Station, they would have been horrified. Class 4 standard is a very good tank, but two class 4's and 11 coaches on a 1:37 incline just doesn't work.
i can't believe at one point, it's sitting there wheels spinning and sparking a f........... can't be good for the wheels or the rails
@@raymondo162 Trying to power up to get up gradient, but opened regulator too much , actually caused a reduction in friction effect by wheels spinning causing it to slow
I wonder if the rear steam engine had the same problem ~ “servire wheel slip” (as we couldn’t see it) or non-communication between the 2 steam locos made it worse
The rear loco was fighting just as hard as the front. If you look to the left and above the grey building in the background between 3.33 and 5.26, you can see the clouds of steam.
4:42 - Watch the sparks fly... Literally.
Not a fail. With judicious engine management, they continued with forward momentum.👍
5:53 Seeing Central Station without the apartment buildings Infront of HMP Exeter (The tall Chimney in the distance) is interesting... How places change over time.
Amazing video and peice of history. 😎
Yes, frightening how things change - often without us noticing. Thank you so much for your feedback.
This was painful to see, Poor engine 😢
If I was the owner and saw this, I would NOT be happy!
I remember the same sound of early morning locos leaving Christchurch NZ with frost on the lines. Men with sand were ready knowing that wheel spin as the train accelerated was likely. Not lack of power, just lack of grip. Some really step mountain climbs had rack and pinion teeth to grip.
All the keyboard steam experts......
Silly comment!
RUclips. Where all the experts live.
As others have said, that's just a stupid comment to make. How do you know there aren't some knowledgable people commenting on here? Despite this it's not exactly difficult to see the poor way the driver handled the loco.
@@jonson481 Today is Thursday.
@@Otacatapetl
It will soon be Friday though
I saw the Royal Train pass through Thurstaston railway station, Wirral back in the 1950's The carriages are in the Railway Museum in York.
Wasn't a total fail, it did make it
They should have got all the passengers out and have them sit on top of the locomotives for extra traction. Either that or get out and push. 🙂
The slip at 4:42 was sure to damage the rails and not do the loco any good. Sure looked and sounded good but should of closed the regulator sooner like on the other slips.
I can only think it 'picked up' water if the boiler was over-full.
Sometimes, with a run-away wheel slip, it is physically impossible to close the regulator. (Is this what happened to "Blue Peter"?). If this happened, it would take this long to react, and open the drain cocks to divert the steam pressure away from the cylinders. It is easy to blame drivers. Now, just imagine what it was like under that bridge (2.35) on the footplate, thunderous noise, cab thick with smoke, trying to work out how to keep things going.
On the other hand, a packed 11 coach train, 1in 37 hill, sharp bend, just two class 4s to lift it, what could possibly go wrong?!
@@Beatlefan67 That can happen yes and caused Blue Peter's destruction. I see he opened the cylinder cocks
@@Tiptonian I just replied to John Perry before reading your comment and mentioned it was that problem that Blue Peter had. The regulator was hydraulically locked open by water and the driver was winding the reverser to cut off steam to the cylinders, unfortunately the forces on the valve gear caused the reverser to kick back and break his arm, mean time the rapidly expanding water and steam in the superheater tubes made the loco run away and broke its rods also blew a cylinder cover off. Conditions on the footplate here could of been similar except this time no injury was caused and they got the loco under control again. Drivers with a lot of experience are getting fewer now and predicting a slip cannot be easy but it did look to me like he was keeping the regulator wide open with sanders on hoping they could make it and let the loco get into a violent slip. It was a heavy load for these locos and a similar gradient on a severe curve I know made a similar sight with a class 56 one damp morning, on other days that train had no trouble at all.
This is why - whilst it might not 'look' as good - it's always useful having a diesel loco at the back of a light-engined steam consist like this.
Reality is that in steam days that I remember (60's) an 11 coach train even with a West Country class 7 pacific on the front would have 2 bankers (probably Class Z or WR pannier tanks once the Z's had gone). A class 4 standard tank with 11 on would have had 3 bankers which underlines what a big mistake it was to attempt this. I was on the fatal failure on the bank of 76069 and Tangmere when yet again the load was far too heavy for this double headed duo. I guess it's a miracle that these two standard 4's got over the bank at all so hats off to the crew under the circumstances. 👍👍
More realistically in the early 60's a standard 4 on a Barnstaple Junction to Exeter Central train would have just 3 or 4 coaches and guess what? A banker too!
I remember at the time there were allegations that the rails at the top of the bank had been greased. The exhaust from the rear loco can be glimpsed as it tries to bank the stationary train.
Grease on rails. No adhesion. Inched it up bit by bit. Lots of care and patience. Primed at 4:56. Dealt with it well.
as usual the experts are out in force who probably dont know F all about an engine
Way to wreck a loco there. (Not to mention damage to the track with the impromptu rail grinder act.) The very opposite of good driving skills I'd say.
Ignoring the dam conditions and the banker not helping
@@welsh_Witch what are you on about? The banker would've been pushing as much as possible. You probably saw at the end, where it had eased off, because they were off the steep gradient.
I read the title and could see one section of rail seemed to bow upwards so at the start of that section, it would be even steeper. And as the engine got exactly there, that is where it first slipped.
Check the profile of the track on that vid, you'll spot it, the wheels hit it at 1:37
Was fireman on 1880 Steam train in black hills of south dakota. in the spring pine pollen would coat the track.
The steepest grade on the route was 6% steepest un geared line in US, would have to back down and try again with more sand, always a challange. Steam is awesome.
Even I know that once traction is broken to close the regulator and sand the line.
Aww,I was willing that to make it up to the top lol.
Tbh though I think it could have been handled a touch better,but 10 out of 10 for the capture.
I remember the 50s sometimes struggled on that bank too.
The driver is a complete moron
That gradient must have come as a total surprise. Who knew that was there? Wrong locomotive(s) for the job in hand.
80080 started its career on the LTSR line and was one of the locomotives displayed at Southend-on-Sea Central station for the LTSR centenary in 1956, which I saw as a schoolboy. I don’t think that the standard 4s with 2 cylinders were as good starters as the Stanier 3 cylinder 2-6-4Ts (2500 class) built specially for that line with its 12-coach trains.
The 3 cylinder 2-6-4s certainly had a very high reputation on the LTS line. A.J. Powell said the enginemen liked them better than the two-cylinder ones (LMS or BR) and they seemed more sure-footed on starting. Maybe the more even torque with six beats per revolution rather than four helped drivers to apply greater power from rest without slipping.
had plenty of power, but didnt have the weight to keep wheels from slipping, this is why most locos got bigger its called tractive effort
I spent time on Exeter St David’s back in the 1950s. The Western region drivers were scornful of the lightweight engines of the Southern. But yes the ACE was hauled by a Battle of Britain etc class pushed by the US tank. They did get a flying start out St David’s and they may have stopped short of the southern end of the platform just to get some extra speed? I am not sure how many times a day it happened , might have been 8 or 10?
Was that simply loss of traction on the rails? Needed some sand shovelled on the rails maybe. And a rail grinder on them first.
This video needs retitling I’d say, looks like success to me!
There were no sand boxes at this time?
A Pass and never a fail. Success!!
What the hell is the driver trying to achieve at 4:40 letting the loco slip like that?
New tyres and rails please!!
I have even seen diesels slip on that bank! In BR days they employed a big old Z to shove from the back..
To be fair, today's traction sniffs at the bank, but it was always worth a wait at the top when an Atlantic coast was due as those old Bulleids were
not the most sure footed.
It was also not unknown for some trains to come up wrong line on that bank.
But that was a great weekend down there and I did the double header to Barnstaple and back without as much as a sniff of effort.
if I was the owner of that Loco I would be well happy....having to pay for a running gear stripdown, so check if there was any metal on the bearings
That is the most incompetent steam locomotive engineer I have ever seen! He has no idea how to recover from a slip. If he did, that train would never have stalled in the first place. He should be fired.
"cough! cough!!... can you move up just a little??...cough! cough!"
I saw them a day later heading out of St Davids late. It was also the first wifes birthday with her not being amused.
Friend at School Andrew Still organised the event.
David and Lily.
Not only did he damage the track, but that locomotive needs new tires. Do they not use sand on those locos?
Yes, sanders were on all the time, not that it seemed to make very much difference
Henry didn't want to come out of the tunnel
Those poor tyres 😓
Good old girl still did it wow proper driver and engineers
Wet rails possibly for not gripping and to much power on regulator causing wheel spin. But talk about make you feel sick when does that with all sparks and heat .
Maybe the locos were slipping in previous wheel burns in the rails, which no doubt after the severe slipping even deeper and requiring new rail.
It's either the train was to heavy for the Loco's to pull, witch is a management foult, if you know your way around it tonnage math (how heavy one locomotive can pull under certain conditions) is not that hard to do. But all the wheelslip before 2 minutes in does certainly does not help it at all. The other reason is bad trainhandling, not having enough speed before the incline, not having a good enough fire and adiquate steam preassure,... Wanna know more on this, visit @Hyce on the youtubes, he talks about this stuff a lot whilest showing you footage of him working trains in a museum or while playing some games. If you're intrested in steam its definatly worth a watch
Evvvvrrrybody out! Now altogether...Puuuuusssssh!!... Well, that works for a car.
More seriously, count the carriages, all packed. All that being moved by the power of steam in two pistons (per locomotive). Impressive when you stop and think about it. It is good that steam power is on display. Every kid should experience it.
This wouldn't happen in India due to the crowd of people hanging on to the locomotive, giving it more traction.
Enough to push if needed.
Nasty wheel slip at 4:40... but at least they don't end up like you-know-who 5 months later.
Bloody hell what was he doin to get it go like that they must have been opening the reg all the way I can assure you we don't do it like that where volunteer we do it properly here
This apology for a driver has probably caused tens of thousands of pounds worth of damage, but this was 30 years ago!!!!
The track would need inspection after that.
Poor throttle handling, letting that wheelspin continue all the time. Were the sanders working?
150 years ago when steam Loco's first ran the average Joe and Jill were small people
Now you fill up carriages and it's like loading cattle. Those poor steamers.
I figured that once they were dead stopped they were done but, low and behold with some coaxing and a deft hand on the throttle, she managed the grade no problem.👍👍🇨🇦
The first thing I ever got scared of in my life was steam trains. I fondly remember hearing a loud puffing noise getting louder and faster. I had to clean out the door doo I was baking.
He learned on Train Sim
Did this locomotive have sanding capabilities?
Great job grinding those railheads!
And the very next weekend new tyres had to be fitted to the lead loco. They can't have had all that much thickness left after this trip?
Doesn’t seem like the rear loco was providing much help, but the driver did make rather a meal of it and risked damaging the loco. It was a big ask for two class 4 tanks to take 11 up the bank presumably from a standing start.
Once upon a time, when the world was a slightly more sensible place, you "gave her the gun" when leaving St.Davids, and didn't wait until the last set of wheels had cleared the bottom of the bank.
You should see what that does to the rail where the wheels spin, those rails will have to be replaced I worked in the TRACK DEPT. for 39 years before retiring.
I believe it work hardens the rail and makes it liable to crack?
Titfield thunderbolt. All out and push 😂
He certainly loves his whistle!!
Well that did the wheels and bearings some good. My uncle used to drive class 4’s and I’m sure he would have shut the regulator a lot quicker in the spins ,he was very careful with his engines and took pride in driving them well. He always said to me you look after them they’ll look after you. That’s true of all mechanical things abuse them and they’ll fail,normally at the most inconvenient time and in the middle of nowhere
Agreed. Driver displayed no patience or mechanical understanding at all. You don't wheelspin these things like doing a burnout in a car. You can tell how impatient and 'regulator happy' he was by the spirited full power acceleration once traction was found. A good driver would apply the regulator skillfully and let the loco 'find its feet'.
Couldn't agree with you more pal 👌. The saying of looking after them and them looking after you is so true.
Felt so sorry for that poor engine, I get the train was heavy and needed to make it up the gradient, but giving full throttle from the start isn't going to help her make the gradient, it just risks causing her great damage, which surely no steam engine lover/enthusiast who loves their steam engines would want?
I guess it's like the rail equivalent of, either a car driver putting the pedal to the floor and bouncing off the rev limiter trying to get going on an icy road, or a biker fully opening the throttle of their motorcycle whilst in neutral and bouncing off the rev limiter, all it's going ultimately to do is destroy the poor engine.
Made the pigeons cough.
4:42 - Jeremy Clarkson in the cab* POWER!!!
well it wasnt a failure becasue the drivers skill prevailed and he didnt give up
NS 958 Third and final attempt to pull the Po Wye . ( RUclips). These old gals did well considering 11 on and fully loaded. And the driver whistling to the helper on the rear.
The loco crew are as much use as a chocolate teapot. ☹️
11 fully packed coaches were too much for the adhesion.
If they stopped wasting steam with the bloody whistle they might have made it! 😂 Got too excited to get it going... just have to put on just enough power to get it moving and let it walk away at its own pace. Trying to push it too quickly gets the result you saw here.
The most dramatic thing is that the locomotive stopped under the overpass. Smoke enveloped the train, it was possible to suffocate there.
Happens to the best of em...nice footage.
I agree. I would not blame any modern driver, who now can’t have any of the daily experience of pre 1968 top link drivers, for being embarrassed in that way. I’m very suspicious of the sudden loss of footing. No sparks. Any malicious cretin could oil one or both the rails, hidden from view by the structures, there. And an 80T/75, is not the best, (apart from convenience and economy) choice for such a route with a train that heavy.