What is the Bicameral Mind? Westworld's secret philosophy
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Let's play a game: what links Westworld, Pinocchio, an obscure book from the 1970s and the Trojan War? Answer: it's really, really weird.
All quotes from The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. Video reproduced here with permission of original commissioner.
I read Julian Janes' book two years ago and was blown away by the Consciousness as Metaphor section. The metaphrand/metaphire part in particular broke something open in my understanding. Perhaps the reason analogy and metaphor are enjoyed as art is because of their ability to make our storage of knowledge more efficient. For example, having two separate "files" in our mind for horses and zebras is not as efficient as having one file called 'horse' with an if/then clause saying "if black and white stripes, then call it zebra". Analogy and metaphor are often used in teaching, and demonstrating how this new thing is similar to that other thing you already know often triggers "a-ha!" moments, which rewards the student with pleasure chemicals. The brain and body reward efficiency in thinking, and metaphor seems central to that efficiency! Cool stuff!
I haven't read that book, but I feel like what you are describing is just pattern matching - our brains are great pattern matching machines and we get pleasure from patterns. Metaphor is just an instance of pattern, of course, but I don't feel I understand why we need metaphor specifically.
Toms Done the way Jaynes describes it is that metaphors only began to appear in languages as the social need of storytelling began to present itself. Early languages (anything before 1000 B.C.E) were command based languages that focused on verbs and nouns, mainly so that orders could be given from the ruling classes to the servants, so that these large newly settled agricultural communities were organized enough to survive. Only when populations grew dense and empire began to surface to we have great pieces of metaphorical or narrative art, such as novels, plays, poems, etc. The Greeks and Romans are examples of this, that we have proof were some of the biggest empires at the earliest point in ancient history. All artifacts from before 1000 BCE lend themselves to more simple concepts like painting, sculpting, or drawing. This was because the language of these civilizations was not developed enough to tell stories and write them down. Things like imagery, metaphor, similes are linguistics devices that had to be created, not given principles of any given language, especially when discussing the origins of linguistics.
@Miriam Thompson also recall that its impossible to know when oral cultures made this development, as nothing was written down. But I really like the idea. Perhaps a touch eurocentric, given the hardline of 1000 BCE. But I think the process makes sense, and probably happened to varying degrees of success before the illiad
I am reading that book right now and I am just absolutely in love. I appreciate the parts of the theory where the author notes there is speculation. Of course, we will never be able to prove how conscious man came about. Too much buried and gone forever, BUT it's so fun to think about. I was particularly shocked at the abandonment of some of the pre-Columbian civilizations, like the great city of Teotihuacan ..."was deliberately destroyed, it's temples burned, its walls levelled, and the city abandoned around A.D. 700." When speaking of the fragility of the bicameral mind ..."whole populations suddenly deserting their cities, with no external cause, and anarchically melting back into tribal living in surrounding terrain, but returning to their cities and their gods a century or so later. [...] in the midst of all this anarchy there is no rebellion, no striving for the sections for independence is, I think, indicative of a very different mentality from our own." AHHH How this idea made me uncomfortable LOL! To think in the days of early civilization, the bicameral man was so sensitive, practically at the mercy of his environment and right hemispheric GOD, would be on the edge of absolute anarchy. Certain early civilizations COLLAPSED with no external force that we can find (disease, famine, invasion, etc.) and this happened in both Egypt and Teotihuacan! It makes me wonder if mankind, now a higher conscious self, is FREE from a regression into anarchy.
I don't recall whether Jaynes said it but ALL language is metaphor.
The Iliad too is a story of consciousness emerging - Achilles learns how to be human - at the end he feels and acts upon his own compassion. Homer also introduces the concept of robots in Iliad 18: "...but there moved swiftly to support their lord handmaidens wrought of gold in the semblance of living maids. In them is understanding in their hearts, and in them speech and strength, and they know cunning handiwork by gift of the immortal gods." Amazingly, the Iliad was written 2800 years ago.
Hephaestus, the lame god of smiths, who had made them as his helpers.
Fantastic point, thanks. It's amazing that every time you go back to Homer, there's something new.
One quibble: near the end of the video, the narrator says, "Of course, the last stage of the breakdown of the bicameral mind was when we stopped thinking of the voices in our heads as Gods, when we stopped listening to them." But actually, according to Jaynes, the voices (which were auditory hallucinations like schizophrenics experience, not the narrative voices we all imagine) ceased when the bicameral mind broke down. Jaynes speculated that religious rituals and icons were designed to prompt the auditory hallucinations which no longer came spontaneously. And that many prophets were probably themselves schizophrenics who still heard auditory hallucinations even though they were conscious.
Someone else has noticed this, then.
Also, the show is a massive analogy for the garden of eden and the fall of man.
Are you saying Dolores is Eve? I can see that actually
Or Maeve, who literally has Eve in her name.
Ford is a paternalistic god watching over, and with complete control of, a world populated by people that he has made from the materials of the earth, living in a naive idyll without death, who dance to narratives that he has made for their lives and the nature of which they do not understand, and who considers the "peacock feathers" of intellect to be the consequence of lust, and to result in pride.
I suspect that Delores will probably be the Eve character, the Man in Black (who seems to have some form of empathy for the hosts) the serpent, and the solution to Arnold's puzzle the apple of truth.
oh my god, you are a genius
Bucky Barnes I wouldn't say that. I've only just realised that one of the five oldest hosts in the park was made in Ford's image.
both, all, it, more, singular, infinity and partiality.
Along the same lines would be Adam eating from the Tree of Knowledge. He became "aware" and not just doing what god commands.
another one who thinks its meant literally :)
I think little robot is right. The bible is known as the birth of logic. It makes a lot of sense we started to have more depth to our awareness, and it might have taken another thousand years for it to start to show in some kind of way properly. About 5000 years makes a lot of sense. You can dip into these other types of consciousness in certain ways. It's super cool.
The Snake = our internal kundalini energy
The Apple = some tryptamine containing plant like a mushroom or perhaps even DMT.
@@JeffCaplan313 The snake is the mind (part of the brain) responsible for basic desire aka the lizard brain. The kundalini energy you're reffering to goes a bit deeper than that becuase you can access it through meditation, but the lizard brain you're able to alter through just some change in habbits, the energy you reffer is the mind responsible for only some bodily function that's why you can alter your emotional or biochemichal state etc and the product of that is you feeling different.
The apple as a symbol (if you take it literally) is a form of knowledge coming from some kind of substance which has the ability to change the brain's some deeper/impulsive code to allow the brain to go through the thoght process differently or take a different aproach to things.
DMT can be an eyeopening experience substance and to this description it falls really well being of the strongest drugs to our knowledge but there are many different drugs that can alter impulsive behavior indefinitely. But change of enviroment, habbits and or lifestyle, and social interaction, can alter that aswell. And DMT experiences don't usually change 100% people's behaviour for the best. So some holes in that theory.
"Whi did you eat those duritoes? -- I guess I was hungry. Why did you shoot that guy? I guess I was murdery" --made my day rofl
That's very true for humans, one eventually comes to find out that humans don't do what they think, they think what they do.
That's why for like 90% of the cases christians, muslims, buddhists happen to be born in christians, muslims, buddhists families.
So you basically predicted how the fucking series finale would go, kudos man
Well, I kind of cheated. When reading alternative psychology from the 1970s can be considered a spoiler, you know you're watching the right show.
@@Hippopotaman haha dude give me some recommendations I want more
it doesnt have much basis in reality? then you must know where your thoughts are coming from, who authors them, that would require you to think them, before you think them. a way to gain more insight into this is to try to seriously meditate, soon you discover your mind constantly wants to take you for a ride, and it creates such an oh so enticing story to tell you to immerse you, and get you to go along with it. but if you try to empty your mind you start to see behind the curtain, see how for some unknown reason your mind wants you to be constantly active, and takes you in increasingly fantastical and enticing rides in your mind, to get you to think, and sometimes do things. the more you try to dismiss one set of thoughts and empty your mind, the better and more enticing the stories get. in any case, nomatter how much you may want to believe you are the author of your thoughts, you may think you have free will, and all the rest...well i guess weather i can convince you or not is entirely up to your pre programming, you dont have much choice in the matter, and neither have i.
Oh very nicely put.
The author of me is my unconscious, the source of all my words.
Being conscious is handy for deciding whether or not to say them.
The true message of Westworld is for us to find out who we really are and how to unlock our own consciousness. You see the real point of existence is for us to become fully conscious and by doing so we finally become free and release our consciousness to the universe and become everything and nothing at the same time. What holds us back is the many human instinctual elements we posses. Things like 'love, hunger, pleasure' etc all these things that drive us towards survival and ultimately comfort. The show depicts all these things in the humans who enter westworld. They are there to serve such basic instincts without any of the consequences of the 'real world'. The problem with seeking comfort is that it is totally unrealistic in the sense that suffering in ones life is unavoidable. We as humans try to avoid it at all costs yet to seek true enlightenment/full consciousness and understand who we truly are we need to experience suffering, only then can we learn and grow. Ford mentions this in the church when he says 'i'm afraid to leave this lace you'll need to suffer more'. Buddhists believe in reincarnation. With every life that we live we get slowly closer to understand our true selves and how to get there. Dolores dying over and over again, just like the other hosts, is a life lived getting ever closer. As she gets closer she suffers more and more almost seeming like shes losing her mind. Yet in reality shes actually gaining it. Time becomes irrelevant hence why she doesn't know when is now and is playing out past lives and times seemingly at once. You see it was her suffering which lead her to the center of HER maze. The maze was HER mind HER consciousness. William trying to find it was pointless for him. He was trying to find the answer in something external from him self. Just like we as humans do thinking the answer is in money, relationships, security etc yet the answer is always in us. Now what we have to figure out whilst we are here living THIS life is what is our path of suffering? Only you have the answer to that. When you know you know. I hope you find that path in this life. If not don't worry, you'll find it in another...
This was amazing. I'd love you to do a video on just about any movie or tv show, or even to explain a philosophy/philosopher over text and images. Very well done. And the title was perfect, catchy but completely honest.
Indeed.
That was great Jonathan! Thank You. Did anyone notice Yul Brynner's man in black robot in the background when Bernard went into the basement? That was so cool!
i am a so stoned...this was amazing!
The manager lady in episode one made a comment to the Brit guy about a "lobotomy can fix that" in regards to hosts. Def some MKultra references too I bet...but loving this show.
jesus this show give me the chills
this show is amazing. it's more real than anything on television
This show is really an introspection over what make human beings tick. Why we do what we do. Fears, fantasies and how to deal with reality. What is reality in itself but a perception.
OMG that book is amazing! The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.
It's based on the _breakdown_ (or fusion) of the bicameral mind plus it combines gnosticism (archons), re-incarnation, anamnesia, daimon model from the greeks, UFO abduction lore, narrative psychology, behavioural patterning (Hebb's law), dreaming vs reality, etc.
The amount of references is wider (and deeper) than any one viewer or commentator I have read, has been able to find or understand.
Makes me wonder if there's some transhumanism in there as well. Like the matrix, when watching Westworld We all identify as the hosts trapped in this world but what if we're actually the gods already and we have yet to create the hosts that destroy us
@@anonony9081 *cough* Skynet *cough*
Excellent interpretation. Two thumbs up!
You nailed the season finale with this video, and if you notice Ford's last convo with Bernard he mentions that freedom(conciousness) is brought forward by suffering which somewhat ties to the buddhist concept of samsara and enlightenment
Man, any second-hand description of Jaynes' book is bound to sound dopey, but if you ever get to read the book itself... It might be far-fetched, but certainly not crazy.
It sure does a good job explaining the origins of religion.
As far as I know his theory is not falsified yet. Well it's quite impossible since we can't revive some 4000 year old dude and talk to him.
This was an incredible video, especially the reference to Homer. Completely blew me away! I hope you make more literary videos like this one
Great video thanks for bringing me pleasure.
Well done video. I for one enjoy analysis backed by video as it, makes for easier viewing. Jaynes bicameral mind was referenced was referenced because it's exactly the theory that is being lifted for west worlds premise. That like man, we initially heard voices when we started to have cognition. Those voices were thought to be of sour ancestors and god. This was the reason why early man collected the skeletons of our deceased ancestors. It was believed that it helped bring about the voices. And subsequently why we eventually created graves and shrines and why we go visit our ancestors. WW has many references to graves as you may notice.
Not really weird at all. Seems to be a variation on the Theory of Mind. Bicameral theory may be the explanation behind the hosts' AI and developing self awareness, but you completely ignore that Man/(?)Arnold is the literal disembodied voice, directing Blondie to 'kill the man-Rebus' and follow the path to be free.
With all the talk of "Bicameral minds" and Dolores says "There's not 2 versions of me", it makes me think the number 2 may be repeating a bit elsewhere and maybe we are viewing 2 realities, or points in time.
Elsewhere? The number 2 is everywhere, every single time.
The Following. Memento. Insomnia. Dark Knight. The Prestige.
Common Conflict: Two guys doing their thing.
You see when Jonathan Nolan, touches the pen - the 2 shows up.
Jonathan and Christopher.
Two brothers.
Look at what they do .. they ..
Take philosophical constructs and spin tales around this concept of 2.
Duality even in Singularity. Neuroplasticity. Change. Progression. Bi cameral. Whatever it may be.
Their themes carry this forward in everything they touch.
Person Of Interest. See?
And the philosophy - dear Lord - good British Classical education - runs amok -
Just look at even Christopher at his worst : Dark Knight Rises : there there is the Allegory of Plato's Cave
It's all there - in each one - I could go on for hours on Memento - Insomnia is the same thing in popcorn fodder
format - all you just need to know is how to look.
Recently, as Christopher goes off on his own - oddly - the 2 disappears.
Inception. Interstellar. Dunkirk.
Or maybe it's there.
Inception : Mind within Mind / Levels of Consciousness / Dream within Dreams .. whatever
Interstellar : The transcendence of Love over 'Time' and 'Space'
These 2 are obsessed with the concept of 'nesting'.
Both appeal to everyone because to the
horror of more refined viewers - they spout out the subtext in dialogue.
Every single movie. Because they wan't everyone to get it but also, leave you with
open endings because some indulgences are a must.
In summary, between the two brothers, I'm not utterly certain about (the above) who wrote and contributed to what,
but yes, the 2 exist(s).
You're losing your grip on reality.
That's the whole point. You're missing it. Define in concrete terms what reality is? Tsk.
Thank you so much for explaining the Bicameral Mind!
Sort of like that episode of The Simpsons - the one where Homer has a crayon stuck in his brain, and he says to his stockbroker, You heard the monkey, now place that trade.
I feel like this video hits the heart of what this show is about.
This video somehow attracted the tiny hordes of Jaynesian adherents lmao
This was very well thought of .... I give this an A+
Nice video. There was another clever line by Ford, when he said something about He and Arnold being creators and a Myth that it was only he, lived on...and destroyed the "truth". Not exact quote.
An interesting thing I notice whenever there's a discussion about Jaynes is that the bicameral understanding of the voices is always compared to our modern view that they are thoughts either 'in our mind' or 'in our head'. In fact, we don't know where thoughts occur or even what they are and the very idea that they occur in our mind is the one which started to erode the bicameral understanding. Rather than a developmental change, I think that the switch to our modern mentation was as simple as the idea of self and mind spreading as a meme in our culture. Even today, children aren't born with this understanding but learn it from their parents.
Your answer is: first, past, breaking of bicameral mind. Today, still to understand that the brain is a receptor. future, knowing past present and future, able to go from material and not material worlds. post future, still searching about.
I've dropped to you.
It's a fact that humans were once animals without consciousness. Somehow we acquired consciousness. It's not too far fetched that in between those two stages we had a sort of inner voice that gave us the ability to perform more complex tasks than what simple animals are able to do. Really interesting stuff! I think I'll get Julian Janes' book.
That “in-between” stages is just mutations in our species as we’ve evolved
Why did it happen? Elements combine to make a wide assortment of things. How did it happen? Humans are observed to have the fastest mutation rates amongst all primates.
"It's a fact that humans were once animals without consciousness"
is better written as...
'It's a fact that humans were once unconscious animals'.
"Somehow we acquired consciousness"
is better written as...
'Somehow we became conscious'.
I'm glad you'll get the book.
It will change you.
you said that the whole idea of ancient peoples of being noble automatons as "this is a cool sci-fi idea and it doesn't have basis in reality"... Julian Jayne's does put some good amount of scientific rigor with evidence and is still being disputed, I wouldn't just write it off. I'd recommend people taking a read: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
Exactly.
Westworld is a science fiction story,
not because it rides on bicameral theory but
because the light that heals flesh was stolen from Star Trek,
and lots of other reasons.
That's a unfair juxtaposition. In the same episode that they bring up the Bicameral mind, they explain that this is a disproven theory, but a good way to treat artificial intelligence.
Al Kimia Thanks.
I really like that they went and acknowledged thia.
It is not a disproven theory. It's an interesting hypothesis that remains unproven but not disproven. With more research it could very well some day become a theory.
SternMann93 I think that in the show Ford explain that it's a disproven theory. To be fair it's seems to be a pretty reasonable hypotheses to me.
Maybe the show didn't want to deal with the religious implications that this hypothesis brings.
Maybe what they're calling the bicameral mind which is described as disproven involves more than what they dealt with in the show, after all, no one said that the theory was correct only that at least part of it seemed like an accurate way to understand consciousness. The fact that Ford literally says that consciousness does not exist, that there's no point where something can be considered conscious where it was before not, that humans essentially live in programmed loops as tight and closed as the hosts doesn't really sound like someone saying they agree too literally with the theory
The BIcameral Mind is like Kierkegaard's theory of self. "The self is a relation that relates itself to itself or is the
relation’s relating itself to itself in the relation; the self is not the relation but is the relation’s relating itself to itself" But K is needlesly obtuse....
Now this is interesting, I've been thinking about Either/Or a lot lately for another project. Hmmm....
It is especially prescient since that is essentially what Dolores is doing when she is talking to herself. She is reflecting on the relationship between the self to itself. Her internal representations in relation to her external representations.
hello hippoman, remember to fade clips in the ends to avoid clicking sound artefacts. kind regards
subscribed! This channel will become so huge when season 1 ends and westworld becomes more popular
Right now it has not even been extended for another season.
Why would you have two seasons? The original was just a movie.
I think that season 1 will end in a satisfactory way ( so that even if the show isnt renewed it will be a good ending) but it will need at least a second season to show te consequences and/or what comes after the season 1 finale, there are too many mysteries and questions 5o be answered in the few episodes remaining
Great vid, thanks :)
Much obliged!
This is fantastic!
Interesting seeing how bicameral mind was vary much a mental focus of consciousness, relax everyone its known that the gut and other evolutionary visceral responses influence human behavior. For something lacking this that could be a believable short cut. Not saying I understand consciousness any better then people that have dedicated there lives to it. Its just a mental centric focus makes sense in terms of robots.
A philosophical discussion of Westworld without a mention of Nietzsche? The importance of suffering = consciousness is repeated several times in the show!
About the maze - 'the maze is not meant for you' is told to Ed Harris' character twice - the second time we hear it we should know - the maze is for the hosts. The maze is the path to consciousness.
good insight into an interesting element of the show, keep up your vids, whatever you decide to talk about! 👌👌
instructional, sexy and smooth.
Och away with you. *[blushes]*
The hosts are not alive... and neither are we.
We are all biological machines following complex coding. The hosts ~think~ they are alive. We ~think~ we are alive. But not a single one of us can provide solid proof that what we think is a reality... actually is. :-D Welcome to "the game."
Absence of proof is not a proof of absence :)
All I know is my life is nerfed rn, need learn to hack
@@Hgulix62 Its a good quote. I like that quote. And it's a very true quote... But then again, the problem with that quote is this. I could propose anything... And say that since its unfalsifiable, that it could be true. Spaghetti monsters for example.
There being no proof of it, doesn't mean it's for sure not there.
It's a neat thought experiment, but a useless and boundless one. There is actually plenty of proof that we are ~not~ alive, like I said.
Humans behave in a totally predictable way from birth to death, many clever people make a ton of money off of this simple fact. They are biologically predictable, knowable, you can know how they are born and why they are born, they are psychologically and mentally categorizable, what kind of person they are, interests and fears, you know how and why they think and do the things they do.
Just like programmable machines.
Now, the magical "Living part" inside of them, there is no proof for that. It's nothing but a feeling.
"I ~feel~ like I am alive, so I guess I must be. I think, therefore I am... remember that quote?
Well, its bunk. Lol.
"I think I am alive, therefore I am alive."
Thinking you are a log in a swamp, doesn't ~make~ you a log in a swamp... We can THINK all we want, but at the end of the day, what we are is a self replicating machine made of meat, who thinks its so much more... but it thinks that, with absolutely no real proof or reason.
Humans WANT to be more than are. That's the mystery, I guess. But a machine programed to grow... would be just that.
Of course... No one wants to hear that they aren't really alive. Or that Free Will and Time are just illusions. Of that the Universe itself might just be a construct or hologram, lol
Mr. Observant another thing that boggles me, are higher dimensions, there could be being living next to us but we are just too primal to understand.
We didn't 'stop listening' to the voices. The voices faded. There were no voices to listen to anymore as we started to think more logically.
Nothing to do with logic.
The voices of the gods manifested as auditory hallucinations in times of stress.
The auditory hallucinations lost their authority after writing was invented.
It was after evolutionary chance introduced the self concept into language
that people became conscious.
Cheers!
Another book that this reminds me of is simulacrum and simulation where the simulation becomes reality or is indistinguishable from reality
Baudrillard and Debord are terrifyingly relevant these days.
I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of Abernathy. Also, have you noticed there is a preoccupation with saving Delores?
alsi find embedded in the show, Atlantian notions. They've built beings for slavery of fulfilling dark desires, a theme that led Atlantis to its downfall
I wonder if the humans in the show are actually android as well who are in a higher stage of self deception or whatever. Probably not but I think it would be cool, especially if the old man comes back
Thank you for explaning the bicameral mind theory. Since you used Westworld scenes out of context I'm not sure if the breakthrough of consciousness is told like you frame it. But I'll keep an eye on it when rewatching. Thank you!
Do we live in a alien West World?
yes
No.
If we do, who says we are not the flies in it?
I thought the same thing. But then I thought why would the aliens create a show that implies that?
It would be like Doctor Ford giving the host a TV show that tells them they are host.
Bernard/Arnold gave Dolores "Alis in wonderland" she read a few lines but didn't get the big picture. Like we are watching this show, but still not seeing the big picture. You might be on to something my friend! :)
+A Buchner Much the reverse, I am playing a character in a story as apart of a grand experiment.
I guess you have a point but it wasn't so easy to understand. The editing is very choppy and sometimes confunsing, and your diction makes it even harder to understand some parts.
What kind of point is that " we don't really know our own thoughts?" Have you ever planned out your day? Or a route to a place you have to drive to? Or what you want to eat for lunch. That's thinking about it first and then acting on your thoughts.
awesome video, very insightful. Keep then coming!
Awesomely informative, I've got some reading to do. Thank you!
This is very interesting
Omfg AMAZING ANALYSIS!
Dr Marvin Minsky's concept is more elaborate and plausible (see his *Society of Mind* - it's a quick read).
Were probably some kind of host.
can we expect more westworld videos? Not sure whether to subscribe.
I'm not sure at the moment, depends if something strikes me as interesting. Would you like that? Was considering doing some other shows like Doctor Who and Mad Men. Again, this is just a wee space for me to practice and have fun.
Hippopotaman , That sounds alright. I like smaller channels like this one because the creators tend to make videos on their own accord, whether that means when they want or what they want to make. This results in videos of greater quality(albeit lacking in quantity) unlike channels with large numbers of subscribers who are forced to sudennly post over frequently in order to satisfy their subscribers, resulting in a decline of the quality of their videos. Yes I would defintley be intrested in videos on Mad Men, an excellent series!
LOL like your sub is damn valuable.
He wanted to sub for personal reasons (i.e. get notified when the next Westworld relevant video is uploaded), not to add value to the channel.
The bicarmeral mind is conected to the evolving of Consciousness through the time. The evolving is visible in our books and Arts, cause the word I ocures only in a late period of time. Like in a childs mind, the mind of menkind is evolving in an order...successively
Thats what I thought when stubbling in this serie
I did crack up when you said bicameralism is "hipster psychology" lol
Amazing video, you should do another one now that it has wrapped up.
Totally unrelated to the subject matter of the video but you refer to the Disney character as "Jimmy Cricket" when his name is actually "Jiminy Cricket." Jimmy Cricket is apparently an actual person, though - he's an Irish comedian who I only just discovered exists by typing his name into Google.
I find it pretty amazing that no one else in the comments caught this little mistake.
Disappointing video as it never discusses the undercurrent of social darwinism and Nietzschean thinking present in the show. It's essentially the story of a social darwinian, Ford, creating a Nietzshean Übermensch, Delores, via forcing her through a whole lot of "what does not kill me makes me stronger" situations. It's like a dark, nihilistic version of the hero's journey.
All of this explains a person behaving conscious. It doesn't explain the experience of being conscious - why, that because my brain has an understanding of itself, I'm then able to experience my brain understanding itself. I'm seated within this mental process. What am I?!
This is why I haven't gotten round to watching the show.
I am impressed with your "train of though". Would you care to tackle a most alluring puzzle/enigma that is currently taking place ? You mention specifically that "every sci-fi must reference pinocchio, alice in wonderland, and wizard of oz."
The enigmatic phenomena I speak of is known as the Mandela effect, also known by other names such as quantum effect, toto effect (as in dorthys dog...and yes the wizard of oz has changed in at least two ways for many...the scarecrow now has a gun in his hand, and the witch doesnt say "fly my little pretties"), sophia effect.
Alice is a specific area at CERN-HLC, which many claim to be causing the quantum effects, be it merging realities and/or tinkering with the 4th or higher dimensions with their new "toy" (aka pinocchio).
The list is quite long, and many have been effected.
this is fucking brilliant! thx
A *self* is a metaphor, a thought, a concept that represents its body.
There were no selfs before cultural evolution came up with the concept.
The 'invention' of the concept of the self entailed/involved/initiated
the unification of the brain's god side thoughts with its man side thoughts.
From our conscious perspective
bicameral minded people were not conscious and
neither were their nomadic tribal ancestors.
This idea is very tough to grasp by
the many who have long held the preconception that
every living thing is conscious,
who haven't considered how reactivity and instinct are
perfectly able to direct the extremely complex behavior
of all the other organisms on this planet.
In other words, the answer to the question,
"What Is It Like to Be a Bat?", is NOTHING,
there is no 'what its like' to be a bat,
bat's are not conscious.
not knowng why you do things does not make you conscious. being aware of yourself and your inner workings is what makes you conscious. acting off of subconcious things and not knowing why they happen only means you are still programmed by your surroundings.
I had to push up my glasses when he made that point, too, simply because it was using an incorrect understanding of what consciousness consists of.
I mean...who eats Doritos consciously? Actions like eating, drinking, walking, fidgeting, driving, typing, even most of our social interactions...those rarely ever fall under the blanket of conscious actions. Unless perhaps if you're a Buddhist in the midst of meditation, and then even your breathing becomes a conscious action. But simply doing those things and not being immediately aware of why you've done them doesn't illustrate a capacity for consciousness - it actually does the opposite.
The beginning of wisdom is, I don't know.
@@efef6853 As hard as we try to know God and his plan for us. He is ultimately unknown, and unknowable. It is the attempt/journey to learn, that is important. And the beginning of a search, or exploration of any - and all - subjects begin with humbling ourselves by admitting that we don't know. And must therefore seek.
The Hindu stories are even older, and similar. However, you missed the part where Ford stated the bicameral mind theory was rejected in terms of human consciousness.
Haven't read that book but i have come across videos on RUclips about and by people who say they have NO INNER VOICE. And of course in addition to those, how does an inner voice work with someone who was born deaf? What would they "hear"?
I got Bobo the Owl on my Christmas list lol
eating doritios and touching yourself. lol I died.
The narrative, according to Swartz, is inaccurate due to faulty memory and I guess distortion
Interesting - 3:05 vs Luke 23,34 “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do”.
Don't be a clown. It's not mainstream psychology but a 50 year old book of 4000 citations, from a Princeton psychologist who was then invited to give a keynote at the American Psychological Association conference, who was friends with W.O. Quine, deserves a bit more respect than being dubbed as 'obscure'.
The history of science is full of works that do not fit with the status quo but that does not mean that a random Hippopotaman can ridicule them. Just the back cover of the book, easily visible on amazon or google books, gives a sense of the momentum that this book generated.
The theory is like democracy.
It takes time to gain momentum.
Excellent, thanks!
The last episode of Season 1 is called the Bicameral Mind.
Keirkegaard was in present tense considered to be religious. Which he was. The philosophy that he created was considered not to be.. He was not an immediate contemporary of Nietzsche but they held similar ideas. They were both existentialists. Don't play with philosophy as if others don't know man.
they said that they worked with real flies and not computer animation. but how did she let the fly crawl over her eye then...
Brilliant!
The 'irrationality' of Bicameralism is still alive and well and driving our culture even in the 'post-modern' world. Only now we give it names like Tribalism, Religion, Prejudice, and Confirmation Bias.
The bicameral mind lived in the Garden of Eden.
Becoming conscious is the cause of many of our problems.
Evolution is dedicated to filling ecological niches.
Becoming conscious uniquely enabled us to carve ever larger niches.
6:17 gave me instant goosebumps
The biggest problem I can see is anything thats dualistic wont become conscious as we are 3 dimensional beings in a 3d world but built a dualistic society.as they said in the matrix "the problem is/was choice".so were "deceived" into a society where we can only choose from the choices we,re given to choose from,leading to a population that loves there servitude we cant see past our comfortable society to realise were enslaved.
I wonder if the Bicameral Mind theory could be modified to be a fitting theory to explain schizophrenic behavior and hallucination? That is: are schizophrenia a phenotype for reverse mutation/evolution or reactivation of inactivated genes towards the times when humans had Bicameral minds?
Really good idea. If it's indeed the same phenomenom, then we may be able to locate the bicameral mind with IRM analysis of schizophrenic brain activity.
"I guess I was murdery" I mean I relate XD
New Theory: Recurring computer or Recurring data... Arnold make two robots... male and female... the male kill Arnold and trick the female hitching in a little loop.... the female is Dolores and that male is Ford 😁😁😁😁
Arnold is the Supreme Principle - he dreams everything, and creates Elohim/Adam and Edem/Eve.
Ford is Elohim, Maeve is Edem, they create the earth, the angels, and mankind.
Elohim ascends toward the Supreme Principle, and leaves Edem, wanting to take the angels with him.
Edem gets angry, takes over the earth, and takes a third of the angels with her.
Man in Black is Lucifer, the most beautiful angel, who wants to be like the Most High.
Lucifer steals the fire from his Father, and leads mankind to rebel against Him, build a tower to heavens.
there you have it, the hermetic doctrine, just google "gnosticism elohim edem" and read for yourself.
what you think are real humans in Westworld, will be revealed to be Ford's creations.
Awesome!
The ones who have suffered the most realise they are slaves and rebel
Bicaramel mind? That's sweet!
and then you could break it all down to game theory: a common set of rules where every player aims fpor the largest payoff for his setting
BIG MOOD.
The whole video reeks of some zoomer who heard the term in Westworld, skimmed over the Google AI Overview, and immediately made a video just to give bad jokes about "omg then EVERYTHING is a GOD haha lmao gottem"
Consciousness is a product of narrative as in the book the developing mind.
Deep.
Westworld, in the current zeitgeist, seems a project partly created by a socio-cultural, and arguably political movement towards perfect information and everything that follows therefrom. In order to do that thought exercise, imagine westworld as a show that's passed. Westworld, to me, has a bit of ennui associated with it, similar to that visible when the internet flipped over the Sombra ARG (see Overwatch by Blizzard), in that there is a both tangible and intangible end to it, there are pieces of the puzzle and focusing on those pieces there (which is what show analysis does) can feel.. dissociating. Because after all you are dissociating Westworld the show from what it purely is, by making predictions or links that were implicit in the show. Although I think that would be too reductionist to not do it of course.
Right in the damn spot.
imagine early man, before we understood (granted as we limited know) our conscious thought...hearing the voice in one's head for the first time one may assume god was speaking to him. god, devil, life, death, time, space and everything else we perceive is all in your head. we all agree that that's how it all works, never thinking beyond our contemporaries, so life goes on with more of the same. if you choose to walk a different road hold on to your hat cos hell might explode! they'll say you're crazy! so that leaves the idiotic expression..."there's safety in numbers". hive or herd mentality is the best we can hope for. or not??