We also know Fern has been mapping the dungeon and that they've been exploring every corridor. It would stand to reason that if you fully mapped a floor and there was an empty unmapped square in between mapped hallways and rooms, that there would be a hidden room in that empty space.
24:41 She's pouting, because Frieren said Methode smelled nice and started hugging her. Fern seems to be jealous of anyone taking away Frieren's attention or affection.
24:20 You've missed on jealous Fern and ara-ara Mama Methode) BTW, in the second season (I hope it will be released, it MUST be) there will be a funny continuation of this) 31:08 It's funny how everyone forgot about that one idiot proclaiming two episodes ago "I'm going alone!")))
The scene of them finding the mural of the old king reminded me of when Frieren watched the sun rise with Fern at the coast town. Like the sunrise, the sight of this mural is nothing special to Frieren since it's just another little thing in her long life. But Fern marvels at it, which makes Frieren happy instead. Nice to see these things repeating ^^
I think the mural Frieren found depicts the goddess of creation praising the dead king for his many accomplishments throughout his life. The idea of the goddess praising you after you die has been a constant theme, and the angelic being in the mural is a woman with elf ears and wings, which is the same figure depicted in churches, religious texts and ruins in earlier episodes. BTW, the guy who was sitting down crying in defeat is the jerk who refused to cooperate with Denken and said he'd beat the dungeoun by himself and went in alone.
Remeber when Frieren said that Fren can activate spells faster than her. That's why she had Fern battle monsters most of the time during their travels. If Frieren can match her clone's attacks with defensive magic then that frees up the rest of the party to go all in on Frieren's clone.
This, and I´m also thinking about what Frieren said to Aura in their "fight", that she would have been more in trouble when Aura would have kept attacking her "with numbers".
What's kinda neat is that Ubel's version of Sorganiel looks distorted, almost like a ring of thorns. Wirbel's version of the spell visually makes two clean rings in contrast.
The hidden room scene is so far the first anime-only scene that isn't extending or adding a fight. Most likely setting up something much later, but idk what since I'm not up to date with manga.
I suspect that "Speigel the Water Mirror Fied" is a homage to Dark Link from Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. It was a dark copy of the player that served as the boss of that games Water Temple.
Now i'm thinking... What if Ewig was that Kraft companion? The guy in the statue with the goatie. Ewig was kind of famous and it was a sage/mage/priest, the goatie guy totally looks like a priest.
Unless Ewig predates Flamme, I don't think that is entirely possible. My read on the story is that it is implied that Kraft's days of adventuring were waaaaay back in the past.
I think Serie saying she can't give up being a mage may be indicative of elves being able to ascend in some faction after a particular age or mana level.
Sense's clone definitely didn't get the pacifist part right; Edel: "Kneel," a second later stabbed through the chest by our pacifist proctress, and forced to heed her own command - not unlike the fate of Aura the Guillotine. Enjoyed the reaction, good job realizing right away that Übel was setting up Spiegel to be forced in to helping her!
15:35 Pretty sure that was her own slicing magic (though she probably got it from someone else originally), that she was free to use after the clone was distracted by Land.
Übel intentionally hesitates in calling out Sorganeil on the clone, and allows the clone to move first on her. She takes the risk that Land will arrive to distract the clone so that she can slice the clone in half. Übel exchanges a 50-50 odds of fighting one's self, for a 100% guaranteed win if Land arrives.
I've never wanted anything more in an anime than to see Land and Ubel pass and become first-class mages, then get teamed up on missions so Land can't get away from her lol. They make an amusing pair.
31:28 OH MY GOD! I completely didn't notice that Fern's clone hasn't shown up yet till you mentioned it here! It's easy to forget when Frieren is present that Fern is also really friggin' scary!
As we learn later in the episode, the difference between the copies and the real thing is that the copies don't possess a conscious mind, making them more like golems than proper beings. So the way you could tip the odds in your favor against one is by thinking about what you would do as them, since they're you, and taking that into account pre-emptively. It's like in a fighting game when you're fighting your own character and the opponent has a similar style. It's about who outflanks the other more quickly and effectively in the mental game that decides it (and of course also how well you execute thing, but assuming all that's equal).
in Wirbel's fight you can see that replica-Scharf only protects himself and replica-Wirbel with his barrier, but replica-Ehre is on her own because they only know her since the first test while Scharf probably already has protected Wirbel on the battlefield
19:44 At least in mexican spanish, the word we use to say halo (as in the religious sense) is "aureola", which is incredibly similar! Must have a shared origin
Sudden thought: could Ewig be the human standing back to back with Kraft in the statue in ep16? Eternal and Power for ancient heroes are quite the titles! It's something I hadn't possibly realized until watching your reaction. Übel got a lot of shine this episode, and we got a glimpse of the horror of taking on a First Class Mage when Sense's Clone really lived up to her name when she cut down Edel. I am so hyped for ep25 on Friday!!!
Im pretty sure we will have second season and more. with the 4 episodes left we can´t even get to Aureole and, most important, the numbers speak fo themselves and this anime was a BIG BIg one.
Fern suggest she can beat frieren. Then she proceed to bring clone frieren to a mimic. Where both clone and real got eaten by it. Would be funny if that were the case.😅 Regarding some of the scenes, the anime made great lengths to further expand what the manga has. Even the funeral part of gramps himmel. Someone also mentioned the hidden passage they got in the this episode was also an anime orig part.
There's a proven correlation between skill with mathematics and music, and music is often considered a means of communicating through numbers (the most popular musical scale is 8-base mathematics). Also, composers are frequently taught a kind of musical "language" which is simply constructed of vocal sounds (not numbers or words) which in combination present concepts (especially emotional ones) to listeners. You might consider investigating a bit regarding music and communication. Now consider the theme of how magic works in Frieren's world. It's been mentioned in this episode, and once or twice before - magic functions based on the mage's imagination. Grant, they must have accurate imagery in their head, but still it has to be imagined. This feeds back into the concept of the copies - they have to have the memories to be able to "imagine" the same spell effects as those they're copies of. When they were looking at Frieren's clone the the crack in the door, you noted the aureole. Did you also note how Frieren's clone was centered in it and looking at it? Many layers of symbolism there. I was really amused by Fern's jealousy response to Methode checking Frieren's defenses. Fern was the surrogate mother figure in Frieren's life, while Method had the whole motherly appearance. I think we had a territorial response. And at the end, I loved how Frieren seemed to immediately understand Fern's reason for saying she could take her. I think next episode we might see Fern using her casting speed in combat.
Yes, music is also on my "research radar", for the reasons you mentioned. Magic in frtiieren is also probably not limited to images, but you could also cast with sounds (f you were blind), I assume. Hope we see that confirmed/debunked down the line! =)
@@storieswithstyle Oooh a blind mage! Now that's interesting, and I'm ashamed to say even with the imagination concept I had not considered perceptually disabled mages. Imagine a blind mage, casting naturally invisible spells simply because they can't imagine what they would look like, and the impact that could have in combat. The magic sense is interpreted visually, but in their case it may need to be kinetic sight, or even to become a whole new sense all to itself. Can you imagine a blind mage using magic sense as kinetic sight? Eyes closed and still maneuvering around environmental obstacles as well as any sighted individual. I can see teaching magic to blind children simply as a means of overcoming their disability. Oh the possibilities!
It's not necessarily 50/50 to face your clone. It would depend on your strengths, in this case. If you are very strong against repelling attacks, your clone would have an advantage because they're on the defense in this tomb. If you're a glass cannon, then maybe it would be different because in that case the advantage comes from those who attack first, which would favour the dungeon delvers to an extent. Generally though, I would say the clones had the advantage here because most people are better at fighting defensive actions when they can dig in.
28:22 Yeah like someone calling your name or nickname. A single word (maybe not even the full word) triggers an entire series of responses in a split second. Words are powerful. Also, yeah math is more of a language. But instead of using abstracted concepts represented through symbols that are themselves build upon spoken language, you are using the symbols as a foundation to use the pure concepts directly, while speech is optional and only really used for teaching the method. So math as a language is mostly hieroglyphic and can be learned and understood without knowing the spelling of the symbols. I wonder, if that is the case, then would equations count as compound words? (Like those words in every language that convey very specific meanings that would take a few sentences to properly explain otherwise. Like liminality or cringe.)
Probably has to copy the memories else the copies can't use the same spells and techniques. Without memories, you wouldn't know how to cast spells and perform battle techniques that would be complex.
But who's corruption? The Continental Magic Association knew exactly what happens in the dungeon and we learn that clearly from the beginning from Genau's explanation. There is no way that Sense could not also know what the actual danger is. She joins the parties in the dungeon, and stays neutral but she had to have known that her clone would not. So is Blei right about Sense?
Ubel is the character I'm most concerned about as a manga reader especially now after knowing what her name means she's a prodigy like fern but she's evil the way she learns magic isn't normal
They mentioned Ewig the Sage again. I wonder if he's a priest. And if so, does he have a goatee. Cause if he does, maybe he's the guy that was with Kraft? Just making a wild guess. No spoilers please.
"Land" - maybe because he's very 'down to earth'. Some European languages have similar expressions (at least mine does). Japanese, too, technically has a borrowed version of it (地球にダウン).
Never heard of the phrase 地球にダウン, not even in colloquial or slang dictionaries. There is 地に足がつかない (feet are not on ground) but it means either not being composed, or not having firm resolve.
I'm not german but in swedish we have the very similar word "ädel", and noble gas is "ädelgas" but in other contexts its meaning is more like noble or honourable than inert.
I see you're watching with the inferior subtitles, crunchy i guess? Ubel's monologe was wrong, it wasn't "you must be want to die", but actually more like "seems i do have a death wish". Crunchy is really untrustworthy, try other legal channel like Muse
Fern: This is my autistic elf girl, get your own!
Methode: Okay.
Sein: It should've been me, not her!!!
a funny note about frieren finding the secret door, in old school d&d elves have a bonus to passively detect secret doors in dungeons
ADND(2nd), 3.0, 3.5. they did away with it in 4th.
@@ObiwanNekodyI was thinking OD&D, AD&D 1e as well as OSE which was my introduction to the OSR games
But yeah those too
Ohh that’s cool. Thank you, good to know-
We also know Fern has been mapping the dungeon and that they've been exploring every corridor. It would stand to reason that if you fully mapped a floor and there was an empty unmapped square in between mapped hallways and rooms, that there would be a hidden room in that empty space.
She possibly higher level than every other character here that must help.
24:41 She's pouting, because Frieren said Methode smelled nice and started hugging her. Fern seems to be jealous of anyone taking away Frieren's attention or affection.
24:20 You've missed on jealous Fern and ara-ara Mama Methode) BTW, in the second season (I hope it will be released, it MUST be) there will be a funny continuation of this)
31:08 It's funny how everyone forgot about that one idiot proclaiming two episodes ago "I'm going alone!")))
Pouty Fern being Jealous over Methode hugging Frieren will never get old.
Rarely seen instance of Fern openly displaying emotion on both her face and with her actions :)
The scene of them finding the mural of the old king reminded me of when Frieren watched the sun rise with Fern at the coast town. Like the sunrise, the sight of this mural is nothing special to Frieren since it's just another little thing in her long life. But Fern marvels at it, which makes Frieren happy instead. Nice to see these things repeating ^^
I think the mural Frieren found depicts the goddess of creation praising the dead king for his many accomplishments throughout his life. The idea of the goddess praising you after you die has been a constant theme, and the angelic being in the mural is a woman with elf ears and wings, which is the same figure depicted in churches, religious texts and ruins in earlier episodes.
BTW, the guy who was sitting down crying in defeat is the jerk who refused to cooperate with Denken and said he'd beat the dungeoun by himself and went in alone.
You're disappointment and frustration whenever the episode ends never ceases to amuse me hahahahaha
It happens every single episode lol
*your
Unless I'm mistaken Mad House is the animation studio, not Mappa (AOT brain must have bled over).
You are correct, it is Madhouse
Remeber when Frieren said that Fren can activate spells faster than her. That's why she had Fern battle monsters most of the time during their travels. If Frieren can match her clone's attacks with defensive magic then that frees up the rest of the party to go all in on Frieren's clone.
This, and I´m also thinking about what Frieren said to Aura in their "fight", that she would have been more in trouble when Aura would have kept attacking her "with numbers".
That would make Fern's clone (which we haven't seen yet) even more terrifying 😅
What's kinda neat is that Ubel's version of Sorganiel looks distorted, almost like a ring of thorns. Wirbel's version of the spell visually makes two clean rings in contrast.
The hidden room scene is so far the first anime-only scene that isn't extending or adding a fight. Most likely setting up something much later, but idk what since I'm not up to date with manga.
Wait the secret room is in the Manga no? I remember reading it. Or am I just fooling myself?
the secret room is anime only
I don't think it foreshadows anything that's in the manga right now
Just binged your whole series, guess I'll see you in a few days lol. Thanks for the quality content so far!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed! =) Indeed, now we wait... :D
I suspect that "Speigel the Water Mirror Fied" is a homage to Dark Link from Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. It was a dark copy of the player that served as the boss of that games Water Temple.
Well, mid boss, but yes, it very well could be.
Frieren hugged methode back when she was trying to restrain her lmao
Yeah, poor Frieren xD
Now i'm thinking... What if Ewig was that Kraft companion? The guy in the statue with the goatie. Ewig was kind of famous and it was a sage/mage/priest, the goatie guy totally looks like a priest.
That's a very interesting suggestion that I haven't seen before.
OH! you posted the same idea a couple hours before me. I really wonder if Kraft knows Ewig?
No, because people know who Ewig is, and there is NO ONE left who remembers what Kraft did, it was THAT long ago.
Unless Ewig predates Flamme, I don't think that is entirely possible. My read on the story is that it is implied that Kraft's days of adventuring were waaaaay back in the past.
@@SonOfSeth But that's maybe because he left scrolls/grimoires. And Kraft don't.
Also, i just notice the goddess has elf ears in the wall, so elf are descendant of the goddess or the goddess was simply a powerful elf.
Speaking of which, go have a look at the goddess mural in episode 1.
Or just created elves in her image. Like human creation myth with Christianity.
I think Serie saying she can't give up being a mage may be indicative of elves being able to ascend in some faction after a particular age or mana level.
Sense's clone definitely didn't get the pacifist part right; Edel: "Kneel," a second later stabbed through the chest by our pacifist proctress, and forced to heed her own command - not unlike the fate of Aura the Guillotine. Enjoyed the reaction, good job realizing right away that Übel was setting up Spiegel to be forced in to helping her!
15:35 Pretty sure that was her own slicing magic (though she probably got it from someone else originally), that she was free to use after the clone was distracted by Land.
Yeah, it's her slicing spell. You can see it cutting through the wall and ceiling behind the clone.
Übel intentionally hesitates in calling out Sorganeil on the clone, and allows the clone to move first on her. She takes the risk that Land will arrive to distract the clone so that she can slice the clone in half. Übel exchanges a 50-50 odds of fighting one's self, for a 100% guaranteed win if Land arrives.
It's Madhouse not Mappa.
I have been waiting for your analysis! most other reactors just gloss over all the lore in this episode and it was so frustrating.
I've never wanted anything more in an anime than to see Land and Ubel pass and become first-class mages, then get teamed up on missions so Land can't get away from her lol. They make an amusing pair.
Not Mappa, Madhouse
20:40 oh look the angel has elf ears!
Judging from previous episode, Fern might throw a mimic inside the room and wait for Frieren copy to trap herself.. 😂
31:28
OH MY GOD!
I completely didn't notice that Fern's clone hasn't shown up yet till you mentioned it here!
It's easy to forget when Frieren is present that Fern is also really friggin' scary!
Unified dynasty lore will be expanded in the next few episodes hopefully, but only a brief mention. We get more in the Manga but I won't spoil.
As we learn later in the episode, the difference between the copies and the real thing is that the copies don't possess a conscious mind, making them more like golems than proper beings. So the way you could tip the odds in your favor against one is by thinking about what you would do as them, since they're you, and taking that into account pre-emptively. It's like in a fighting game when you're fighting your own character and the opponent has a similar style. It's about who outflanks the other more quickly and effectively in the mental game that decides it (and of course also how well you execute thing, but assuming all that's equal).
How much do you wanna bet that somewhere along the line there is gonna be a lich named Ewig...
in Wirbel's fight you can see that replica-Scharf only protects himself and replica-Wirbel with his barrier, but replica-Ehre is on her own because they only know her since the first test while Scharf probably already has protected Wirbel on the battlefield
19:44 At least in mexican spanish, the word we use to say halo (as in the religious sense) is "aureola", which is incredibly similar! Must have a shared origin
Madhouse, brother, not MAPPA. Common mistake lol
They both start with an M =( :D
Sudden thought: could Ewig be the human standing back to back with Kraft in the statue in ep16? Eternal and Power for ancient heroes are quite the titles!
It's something I hadn't possibly realized until watching your reaction.
Übel got a lot of shine this episode, and we got a glimpse of the horror of taking on a First Class Mage when Sense's Clone really lived up to her name when she cut down Edel.
I am so hyped for ep25 on Friday!!!
The secret room with the mural aswell as the whole Wirbel team scene in this episode wasn't in the manga which is interesting.
32:38
I understand your pain
The next arc will be go with some of you theories i think
15:37 Übel was the one who slashed the copy
12:40 A Country stands on its own, just like Land does.
Fern is almost undetectable, maybe that's why she doesn't have a clone yet...
Im pretty sure we will have second season and more. with the 4 episodes left we can´t even get to Aureole and, most important, the numbers speak fo themselves and this anime was a BIG BIg one.
Fern suggest she can beat frieren.
Then she proceed to bring clone frieren to a mimic.
Where both clone and real got eaten by it.
Would be funny if that were the case.😅
Regarding some of the scenes, the anime made great lengths to further expand what the manga has.
Even the funeral part of gramps himmel.
Someone also mentioned the hidden passage they got in the this episode was also an anime orig part.
Couldn't make it to the premier, sorry. Anyways, excellent show, excellent analysis and excellent video to watch.
31:07 it's the guy that refuse to cooperate with Denken and choose to go alone
LOL. Another week to wait.
There's a proven correlation between skill with mathematics and music, and music is often considered a means of communicating through numbers (the most popular musical scale is 8-base mathematics). Also, composers are frequently taught a kind of musical "language" which is simply constructed of vocal sounds (not numbers or words) which in combination present concepts (especially emotional ones) to listeners. You might consider investigating a bit regarding music and communication.
Now consider the theme of how magic works in Frieren's world. It's been mentioned in this episode, and once or twice before - magic functions based on the mage's imagination. Grant, they must have accurate imagery in their head, but still it has to be imagined. This feeds back into the concept of the copies - they have to have the memories to be able to "imagine" the same spell effects as those they're copies of.
When they were looking at Frieren's clone the the crack in the door, you noted the aureole. Did you also note how Frieren's clone was centered in it and looking at it? Many layers of symbolism there.
I was really amused by Fern's jealousy response to Methode checking Frieren's defenses. Fern was the surrogate mother figure in Frieren's life, while Method had the whole motherly appearance. I think we had a territorial response.
And at the end, I loved how Frieren seemed to immediately understand Fern's reason for saying she could take her. I think next episode we might see Fern using her casting speed in combat.
Yes, music is also on my "research radar", for the reasons you mentioned. Magic in frtiieren is also probably not limited to images, but you could also cast with sounds (f you were blind), I assume. Hope we see that confirmed/debunked down the line! =)
@@storieswithstyle Oooh a blind mage! Now that's interesting, and I'm ashamed to say even with the imagination concept I had not considered perceptually disabled mages. Imagine a blind mage, casting naturally invisible spells simply because they can't imagine what they would look like, and the impact that could have in combat. The magic sense is interpreted visually, but in their case it may need to be kinetic sight, or even to become a whole new sense all to itself. Can you imagine a blind mage using magic sense as kinetic sight? Eyes closed and still maneuvering around environmental obstacles as well as any sighted individual. I can see teaching magic to blind children simply as a means of overcoming their disability. Oh the possibilities!
@@scott644 Yeah, I hope that is used in some way. I would write it in, I think. :D
It's not necessarily 50/50 to face your clone. It would depend on your strengths, in this case. If you are very strong against repelling attacks, your clone would have an advantage because they're on the defense in this tomb. If you're a glass cannon, then maybe it would be different because in that case the advantage comes from those who attack first, which would favour the dungeon delvers to an extent.
Generally though, I would say the clones had the advantage here because most people are better at fighting defensive actions when they can dig in.
You will learn the whys of Land's name probably on the last episode or the one before
28:22 Yeah like someone calling your name or nickname. A single word (maybe not even the full word) triggers an entire series of responses in a split second.
Words are powerful.
Also, yeah math is more of a language. But instead of using abstracted concepts represented through symbols that are themselves build upon spoken language, you are using the symbols as a foundation to use the pure concepts directly, while speech is optional and only really used for teaching the method.
So math as a language is mostly hieroglyphic and can be learned and understood without knowing the spelling of the symbols. I wonder, if that is the case, then would equations count as compound words? (Like those words in every language that convey very specific meanings that would take a few sentences to properly explain otherwise. Like liminality or cringe.)
Yes, that might indeed be. I see mathematics as THE meta-language. Then again, it has three sub-dialects (topology, analysis and algebra):D
Probably has to copy the memories else the copies can't use the same spells and techniques. Without memories, you wouldn't know how to cast spells and perform battle techniques that would be complex.
But who's corruption? The Continental Magic Association knew exactly what happens in the dungeon and we learn that clearly from the beginning from Genau's explanation. There is no way that Sense could not also know what the actual danger is. She joins the parties in the dungeon, and stays neutral but she had to have known that her clone would not. So is Blei right about Sense?
I don't know, the Sense Clone at least did not go for the kill on Edel... :D
Ubel is the character I'm most concerned about as a manga reader especially now after knowing what her name means she's a prodigy like fern but she's evil the way she learns magic isn't normal
Perhaps the theme is failed understanding. Like frieren etc.. everyone except Himmel so far.
They mentioned Ewig the Sage again. I wonder if he's a priest. And if so, does he have a goatee. Cause if he does, maybe he's the guy that was with Kraft?
Just making a wild guess. No spoilers please.
"Land" - maybe because he's very 'down to earth'. Some European languages have similar expressions (at least mine does). Japanese, too, technically has a borrowed version of it (地球にダウン).
Never heard of the phrase 地球にダウン, not even in colloquial or slang dictionaries. There is 地に足がつかない (feet are not on ground) but it means either not being composed, or not having firm resolve.
@@syockit that's why I said "technically" and "borrowed". In Japanese they probably just say "realistic".
❤
25:50 if it's noble as in noble gasses, maybe the translation is more like "non-reactive" or "inert"?
I'm not german but in swedish we have the very similar word "ädel", and noble gas is "ädelgas" but in other contexts its meaning is more like noble or honourable than inert.
yeah, it is honourable (I also associate ti with aristocracy, but don't know why)
I see you're watching with the inferior subtitles, crunchy i guess?
Ubel's monologe was wrong, it wasn't "you must be want to die", but actually more like "seems i do have a death wish".
Crunchy is really untrustworthy, try other legal channel like Muse
I only have CR subscritpion :D I have tried... "different sources" for recording before, but people said that could be trouble :D
CR subs aren't always the best, but that line is one of those cases where it means basically the same thing, given the context.