Rose McGowan's Feminism Excludes Trans Women | Feminist Fridays RETURNS
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- This week on Feminist Fridays we're discussing Trump saying he's not a feminist, Sir Ian Mckellan's problematic advice on coming out, and how Rose McGowan's feminism excludes LGBTQ+ people.
For an extended cut of this episode, sign up for my Patreon!
www.patreon.co...
Twitter: / marinashutup
Tumblr: / marinashutup
Feminist Fridays Facebook: / marinashutup
Intro, Endscreen, and Channel Graphics designed by the wonderful Cydney Wiedenbeck:
/ cydgraphics
Sources:
Rose Mcgowan:
www.huffington...
www.them.us/st...
afropunk.com/20...
Rates of Violence Against Trans People:
www.ovc.gov/pu...
www.hrc.org/re...
Rates of Violence Against Women of Color:
www.doj.state.o...
www.cdc.gov/vi...
IMPORTANT PLEASE READ!
I want to clear something up: I didn’t know about this until after I’d uploaded the video, but Andi Dier now has several sexual assault accusations against her by young girls.
Do not support Dier!
Unfortunately, many people are using this as an excuse to misgender her/the trans woman who interviewed Dier and perpetuate the idea that all trans women are predators or secretly men trying to infiltrate women’s/girls’ safe spaces.
We should not support Andi Dier, but we should also 100% continue supporting trans women as a whole. Hold predators accountable and call that shit out, but don’t use it as an opportunity to feed into transmisogyny.
All the youtubers i've heard talk about coming out always say to do it only if it is safe.
wow, Rose McGowan seemed so nice when she played on Charmed.
I would like to hear more about this issue, but i'm dirt poor.
*head in palms”
marinashutup whats up with your sound?
So two women who are "feminists" but are hurting the movement.
marinashutup you disrespect rose even though she is a rape-victim. that is worse than promoting a child abuser.
If Rose McGowan feels this hurt and enraged at being called "white" and "cis", imagine how people actually dealing with racism and transphobia feel?
LOL so true!!
And two wrongs make a right.
Right?
She's not saying anything about race. What she's saying is cis women face extreme sexism and have to deal w/ male privilege since we are born, and being a woman isn't all just about being feminine and looking pretty. Trans women don't have to face this until they "come out" by either dressing fem, or letting the world know. Trans women get to choose to come out when they're ready. They don't experience transphobia until they come out, and they can move and go bk in the closet at any time before they transition thru surgery b/c they can still usually pass for male. Cis women don't have that luxury. Cis women also have less of a chance of fending off a male attacker, until the trans transitions thru hormones b/c until then the trans woman is biologically male and has more testosterone and physical strength. For cis women the hatred on us, the oppressive stereotypes, ect starts from when we're born, and whether or not we're ready to deal w/ it, we have to face it. We don't get to choose when we're ready to deal w/ it. Male privilege is a shock to alot of trans women when they start transitioning so yeah "welcome to the world as women" is not discriminating, and fact that statement is saying they are now women and validating them even though it's sarcastically stating that they shoulda known it's not easy being a woman and been more aware it's not all glitz, glam and shiny dresses, it is still validating them by essentially saying "you are now a woman" by going thru these things.
abdvilliers222 feminists literally do nothing but yell at people all day for being white and cis. imagine how white straight men feel
........but its not about hating men
#mencantberaped
#womencantrape
rape culture fighting 'rape culture' with rape apologia.
feminism is a joke
Really sick of people in privileged positions responding to being called a person in a privileged position calling it a “label.” Would you get angry at a carrot being called a carrot?
Because you’re telling that anything other than white cishet neurotypical may need a name, but being white, cishet or neurotypical is “default.”
why can i not like this 100x ugh people need to get this through their heads !!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you completely, but what is a cishet?
Cisgender heterosexual
Thank you! :)
Mike Nike - no. And no.
There are a lot of resources out there, but you need to read or listen to them.
Why not start with learning the history of the word white.
She really screamed at a trans woman that she comes from another planet?? Because she’s trans?? And then played the “because I have a vagina card?? And had a screaming tantrum on the stage?? And people APPLAUDED??
I do not want to defend her at all. But with the Planet thing: I think she was talking about herself.that she herself is not from planet earth.
Of course this doesn't help with the other aweful things she said.
SushiRoll Speaks
No she was saying that she doesn’t subscribe to their identity politics rules.
@@krumble8327 that's good there's many who donr subscribe to her fucking brand of feminism. She's an embarrassment to feminists
Also sooo fucking sick and tired of people complaining about the word cis.
Wouldn't it just be easy to call cis people normies and trans people as transformers robots in disguise
I see a lot of pain and rage in Rose at the moment, and I think everything that's been built up for so long and finally boiling over in regards to Weinstein and how hard she's trying to get to the truth are definitely taking a toll on her mental health. (Her anti-cis label rant, while being a crock of bullshit, sounds to me like someone who has trauma with labels and words being used to define her in the past.)
I mean this doesn't excuse her being a terf and being exclusionary and violent towards trans women, those clips make me feel sick every time I see them, but I do hope that there are people looking out for and taking care of her so she can reach a stage mentally where she's open to criticising her own actions and learning from her mistakes.
Agreed.
Rose is definitely pulling some kinda manipulative tactics (maybe gaslighting?) with anyone who dares to question her. She acts like if someone doesn't fully support her, they are damaging the feminist movement and are hurting women. She thinks that she's the ultimate authority of what people can say on these topics, and makes people feel like they are basically condoning rapists if they ever question her. She has surrounded herself with a bunch of fans who agree and will follow everything she says too, so she probably doesn't even realize what she's doing. The work she's done has been great, but I think she needs to step back for a moment and listen to other people on these issues too. It is hard to step back when you're so passionate about something, but the lense that Rose is looking at these issues through reeks of ignorance and privilege.
+
I think she's dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality
Oh, the lack of awareness...
I think you pretty much described white feminism as it is usually used to describe privileged white women that consider themselves authorities on what being a woman is.
the teach
Get lost troll
I’m a trans woman and i call you out for being pretty cool. Keep on keeping on 👍
Ash Zaylie .... Correct me if I'm wrong but did you just comment that on Zacc's post because she said she was a trans woman or...? Because she was talking about Marina, not Rose or Andi, so to comment on Andi being a sex offender here specifically instead of say, a post that at least mentions her name, is..... Weird...
People have been deleting a lot of posts I’ve been responding to ...Weird
Ash Zaylie what does it have to do with anything!?!
Wow. I saw a transcript of the Rose McGowan video but not the actual video. Seeing it reveals a whole lot. Mostly that she went on Twitter to yell at Barnes and Noble and the audience for not defending and protecting her, but the staff not only REMOVED the woman who was criticizing her, McGowan also got applause from the crowd? And for what? For telling a transwoman to "be grateful" and for acting insulted at being called cisgender? That warranted an applause?
Why in the hell was she on Twitter complaining about how she was treated at the event???
Even that aside, reading up the TERFs defending her nearly made me put my head through my desk. It's impossible to argue with them because they'll start denying a lot of the claims transwomen talk about (including the higher rates of violence that transwomen--especially WOC--experience) and then, when confronted with evidence, double down with the transphobic "but it's not relevant because they're not real women."
*So. Fucking. Gross.*
It's been said before, but we'll say it again: if your feminism isn't intersectional, WE DON'T WANT IT. It's not even that it's useless, it's that it's *harmful.*
+
Rose is a hollywood celebrity, she should know how to handle being heckled by someone she knows is going to be carried out by security.
kelseyyyyy2012 it's worth discussing that point and I wasn't aware of the accusations, but it doesn't take away from the fact that TERFs are using that to dismiss any legitimate criticism people have for Rose McGowan and her supporters. If Andi really assaulted people I agree we shouldn't be hauling her as a martyr, but what about ALL the other transwomen who've called out McGowan and her type of activism? Are we just going to ignore them? Not to mention, Rose didn't know about those allegations when she confronted that woman. It could have been ANYONE else calling her out on what happened and she still wouldn't have reacted appropriately.
And I get it, she's an abuse survivor and she felt attacked. I can see why she'd escalate. But she hasn't even issued an apology stating that in the heat of the moment she said somethings that could be hurtful or that she regrets the way she spoke about transwomen in the past. No, instead she double down, demanded an apology for everyone, and allowed TERFs to protect her and defend her all while misgendering a transwoman.
There's a way to handle this. This isn't it.
Ash Zaylie you mean Rose McGowan? I think there's a way to frame the differences of growing up female vs transitioning to female without saying that transwomen don't know shit, because for one, they probably do. Her point of, "you don't know what it's like to grow breasts and get harassed for it" is idiotic because lots of transwomen go through that thanks to hormone therapy, just at a later point in their lives. (And lots of young cisgirls don't because every body is different and develops different, so it's barely relevant to her argument).
Yes, things experienced by some cis women will be different in some areas from that which is experienced by transwomen and vice versa. Intersectionality isn't asking you to ignore those points, if anything it's asking you to acknowledge the differences while STILL being inclusive. Rose McGowan may have been saying that growing up a woman is difficult and people might not realize just how if it hasn't happened to them, but she didn't need to imply transwomen just don't "get" what it's like to be a woman. That's the offensive part.
Yeah I've foolishly read the comments of too many articles on this incident and all of the terfs defending her...it's fucking terrifying.
The fact that Rose said "You should be fucking grateful" while yelling at someone says a lot to me
I love how Rey in the background nods in agreement with you in the back!
Especially when Marina explains that trans women experience more violence than cis women. Rey knows the score.
LOL! I notice that too. Its cool to know Rey is not a TERF. 😄
Phrases like "you should be fucking grateful!" are quite disturbing and revealing.
They reveal that the person in question only supports other people's human rights if they get praise and kudos for doing so.
We should support people's human rights regardless of whether or not they're grateful.
Rose seems very self absorbed. Kind of like “if this issue does not directly effect me or people like me it isn’t real and I don’t have to listen to you.”
Holy heck. That was completely inappropriate and uncalled for. If someone asks you to clarify what you said or challenges your opinion in a respectful manner then you have no right to scream at them and belittle their experience like that. I'm really shaken up over this. I think that people fall into this trap were they think that having privilege means that their life is easy. It doesn't. There is no competition for how oppressed you are. Different people have different struggles/obstacles and that is something that should be taken into account.
Natalie Parker the woman in the video was a hypocritical rapist literally screaming at a victim of sexual assault. She did not "challenge [her] opinion in a respectful manner."
Lmfao the troon is literally mad about rose not centering people with penises in feminism. .. 2k18 is killing me
I'm not to sure about Rose. It seems like she is trying to use the current environment of calling out sexual assault to her advantage. True she was on one of the first to call out Harvey Weinstein which she should be applauded for; however recently its like she is trying to keep the focus of all the others coming forward with their own stories of sexual assault on herself. She prefers to use to the hash tag RoseArmy other than the Metoo one, she constantly calls out other celebrities, women specifically for not conforming to the actions she deems appropriate and has recently released the documentary titled Citizen Rose which is focused solely on herself,with its obviously reference to Citizen Kane while missing the point that movie. Personally I don't think Rose is going to be much of an asset when it comes to addressing the issue of sexual assault in Hollywood specifically or in general over all.
I think you’ve misunderstood. She is one of the few women who won’t quit expressing anger and rage and telling it like it is! She is not doing this for attention but to get women roused.. She says I’m just like you. She’s only using her celebrity to push this movement. We could learn from her. The message is be brave. Don’t shill for men or the propaganda machine.
I see a lot of TERFs punishing trans women when they do the same thing.
@marinashutup
Because of this video, I decided to look more into what's she's said and done and...shes's said a lot of fucked up shit, in my eyes. -- She's now claiming the trans woman who called her out is a paid actress, though, she said "paid actor"..but whatever.... In 2014, she made comments about the LGBT community, saying" that gay people just fought for the right to stand on top of a float wearing an orange speedo” -- " She said later: “I think it’s what happens to you as a group when you are starting to get most of what you fought for? What do you do now?' -- someone on her twitter also claimed she made a tweet saying if you replace the word woman, with the N-word, you get the same thing -- idk if that comment is true, but just seeing the little I have seen of her, in her twitter page, I don't really doubt it. She is just is overall gross to me, as a person. Her Feminism is white Feminism, in my eyes. She's said some other stuff that is criticizing the LGBT community, but it's often as if she forgets that women exist in the community as well. It's as if she feels the LGBT community has some sort of agenda, or something...
She keeps claims that what the trans woman was doing, was assaulting her for a full 2 minutes, and that everyone taking apart of it, is apart of some conspiracy against her. Like, apparently the trans woman is now being accused of doing some fucked up shit to other women, but that doesn't change the comments Rose has made about the trans community, and it's like she is just completely beyond approach. I keep finding articles of her, and she just seems to completely not understand what being intersectional is, or even means. She's now blasting the acusations of what the trans woman has done, which is good, if they are true. But, seriously, that doesn't change all the comments she has made towards the Trans community. Those comments are still entirely problematice and TERF filled.
Thank you for the video, I was already starting to dislike her for some other marginalized issues that I felt she was being problematic in, but this shows me it goes much further than those things
Echo2themoon wow. I knew it was bad but it just keeps getting worse and worse.
Ash Zaylie --- Do you not understand what you just did?
Would you post an article about an indigenous person comitting a crime, on a video about a call out of a white person, as an example of why native people should shut up about white people's privilege? I hope you wouldn't.
But that's very close to what you just did.
This video calls out Rose for excluding trans people from her feminism, and you decided this was the place to throw a link, to show what? How violent those "transexuals" are? (Seriously the article you used uses that term preferentially)
So that makes it okay what Rose said? No. It does not.
What she said was not okay, and what you are doing is derailing that in favour of, effectively if indirectly, questioning the validity of trans women's place in feminism.
They belong with us because trans women are women.
Your concept of “dangerous” is concerning. I shudder for the generation that believes the world is expected to conform to your ideas. If your ideas hold up, offer something besides “dangerous.” You’re beyond privileged if your understanding of dangerous is what it is.
The fact that Rose will casually mention her "trans" friends and then vehemently object to the "cis" label is pretty funny. Well, not so much funny as it is infuriating. I can only imagine how angrily she would have objected if a WOC called her "white".
Did she object to cis word or “cis world” ?
Ash Zaylie - Yes. She yelled about 'don't label' her, and the only label mentioned which Rose doesn't already ascribe to herself, the one Andy used to describe Rose, was Cis.
Also her escalation in reaction comes basically right after the word Cis is mentioned.
Excluding some kind of paranoia about regular words being labels (and for the sake of not being ableist let's please exclude that) there's no other label she could be objecting to, but she is clearly objecting.
They didn't test chromosomes to assign me as female, it was based on genitals.
It's based on appearances as we age. If you look like a girl society treats you as one.
Social constructs like patrichary are *not* rooted in science. They are rooted in bigotry, appearances, and ignorance.
I thought she was freaking out about being called transphobic
Ada Bee If she doesn’t identify with the word ‘’cis’’ then it’s a verbal aggression. If you don’t think so, answer me this, should black people have to accept the words others would use to designate them if it makes them uncomfortable? If you believe in self identification, what right do you have to use labels for people which they do not want?
Thank you so much for saying this. It means a lot
that shitstorm was so abusive and manipulative... people should be greatful for her?! and of course she had to say purple, it is DEFINITELY a skin color *sigh* her audacity is not shocking but extremely disgusting. thank you for speaking about this.
That video clip was... a lot. We cannot let that kind of “activism” lead us.
We👏 can 👏not👏 let👏 womem👏 lead 👏any 👏kind 👏of 👏activism👏 without👏 it 👐being 👏centered 👏and 👏affirmed 👏by👏 people👏 with penises 👏(aka men)! 👏
*sarcasm off* 👌👌👌😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@opronwin-fa8959 except trans men don't live as men and they have always been strong allies if feminism.
The problem was Rose being propped up as a perfect feminist in the first place. She should've stuck to the Weinstein stuff instead of acting like a spokesperson for all women.
Citations please on how transwomen face more violence than cis women. About 2 women die a day in the United States at the hands of current or former intimate partner. Last stats I read was that less than 20 transpeople died in the United States in 2017. How do those numbers even compare? The only transwomen that face heightened rates of violence are those involved in sex work and their numbers still aren't as high as the cis women in that kind of work.
I linked sources below, you could probably check before commenting.
marinashutup the one source you linked to attributes the 1 in 2 transpeople being sexually assaulted to unpublished data collected in two cities, Chicago and Philadelphia. The other source from the hrc even pointed out that bisexual women have the highest rate of sexual assaults. Counting all transpeople within the same data point doesn't really give meaningful information as to why the assaults occur because trans men and trans women are biologically different and not socialized and treated the same in society. I would posit that transmen and female bodied non-binary people face more sexual assaults than transwomen as a whole.
Also, these stats don't address the other kinds of violence that women face disproportionately at the hands of men compared to transwomen. The murder rate for cis women is much higher than trans women.
The fact that you are denying trans people experience violence is bigotry.
"Waaaah im.more abused than you are wahhhhh"
"BECAUSE NAH" Same, sis. Saaaame.
I think my good friend the Vegan Anarchist said it best when it comes to Trump not being a feminist; "No shit, Sherlock."
I do think Sir Ian's heart was in the right place, but yes, it's not always safe for LGBTQ+ people to come out. I think coming out is important, and it's definitely sad that not everyone has a good support system (and could be faced with losing their income, home, or even life over coming out), but this is reality. All we can do is work toward a better world.
McGowan is just being trash...I don't even want to say anything more.
This is hard for me to watch because this morning I watched her Big Think video and really fell for Rose McGowan..... and mere hours later you're showing me more of what I didn't know about her. Bummed :/ I believe that we can fight for ourselves without cutting other people down. She's got good point of views but...... I mean.... TERF all the way. And that's not okay with me. For that reason, I don't want people to see her as a gateway into feminism.
Thank you so much for talking about this. It’s so important and a lot of people who label themselves as feminists are so insensitive towards the experiences of trans people, and trans women in particular
Whenever people say "purple" in terms of not seeing race/color, it makes me roll my fucking eyes every time.
I feel the same way when MEN pretend to be women
I just find her whole response sickening and just textbook behavior of a privileged activist being so angry with marginalized people who don't kiss their feet for doing something even if they're the only ones who benefit from their activism. she acts as if yelling about how she rejects these labels (They're not just labels you choose for yourself, they affect how the world views and treats you) will change the privilege she experiences and has such hate for the marginalized people who remind her of this privilege. I feel like she would be happier in the time period when woc and trans women's voices were not at all valued or heard and she could go completely uncriticized. It is heartbreaking and disappointing. Also if you look at the responses to her tweets, proud and outspoken TERFs have just Flocked to her after this and I'm sure she'll be more comfortable with them anyways.
i think personally, she sticks up for what she believes and a lot more people should do that. she gives no fucks about her opposers. in a world of pick me’s she’s fighting that fire with fire. we can’t forget to talk about women in feminism because that’s what it’s all about. she is reminding people that just cause your gay/trans/whatever doesn’t mean you deserve to get stood up for more than a woman does. her whole things is…don’t forget about women.
this is one of those things i let the feminists hash out between themselves.
i think the more... egalitarian feminisim... is the best. and that means including trans people in the equality. but the heckler (andi) was basically baiting rose into a freak out. and as cringe worthy as rose's meltdown was- i don't really blame her.
would like to see your take on how to handle call outs, though.
Yeah, in retrospect I wished I would have talked about Rose’s PTSD more (which I didn’t realize she had but I should have guessed) and how that probably colored her reaction. And there are allegations against Dier now which I didn’t know about before I put this up. I might make a follow up to this. I did start scripting a “How to Survive a Call Out” video though with my take on how best to handle them in a productive way.
marinashutup
I think a more nuanced video is in order. ;-)
I mean, I cut like 30 mins of footage from this and already made an extended video so idk how much more nuanced we can get without having a 2 hour vlog
Marina, i don't know. Talking about Rose's trauma and PTSD and the allegations against Andi Dier for starters. Maybe you should have split the video in 2, one about Trump and the other stuff and one only about Rose.
Marina have you considered making a podcast? Because I feel like that would be a good way for you to have a sort of 2 hour vlog and it would work.
Rose has done nothing wrong
She actually has brought up a lot of good points
LGBT activists are the ones who exclude woman & throw woman under the bus
Intersectionals just all agree with each other on everything
There's no critical thinking
Go Rose!
Wow... that was handled very poorly, definitely. I can't believe she went from "We're the same" to "I don't subscribe to your language" and "I don't come from your planet". How naïve can she be? I can't even.
We are not the same.
Are you correcting me, or stating?
it's actually really interesting that this pattern repeats over and over again: people who "do good for others" suddenly putting these people down and screaming "you should be thankful to me" as soon as they don't agree with them. seen it among my friends, in smaller political groups in college, and now also here. fucking disgusting.
Oh, and uh... disagreed with some things, but... liked. You did a good job of arranging and articulating your points. Sorry you felt the need to take some time; hope you're feeling better. And keep it up!
So great to see you! I've missed you.
you'd think being a survivor of violence she'd be more conscious of how she's acting. that recording was enough to terrify me, I'm sure I'd be having a panic attack if i were there. other people could have been really hurt by her outburst :/
yeah i would freak the fuck out... terfrage
Could you make a video about body hair and waxing related to feminism? Love you ❤
Paula C the plot thickens... 😘 luv ya too!
Women with body hair are not gross. Don't be part of the problem.
if you are gonna make a video on this, you better include all types of hair on all parts of bodies or it is gonna be vvhite-centric bullshit. body hair is not limited to the the legs and armpits, and if you won't be able to cover all other parts of bodies, just don't even bother.
Jesus christ... Yeah... When you're that self important you need to take a step back and do some self reflection... >.>
When I was 14, I was a huge fan of Charmed. I lived in a student boarding house and missed my family terribly. Watching Charmed on TV gave me something to think about, a fantasy world to immerse myself in. So now, almost two decades later, Rose McGowan lashing out at trans people like me somehow feels very personal. A punch right in the childhood (or teenhood or whatever). Damn your Rose, you had one job!
Your one job was to entertain me and fit a tidy narrative. Not respond to trauma in a complicated way.
Lashing out against people who have nothing to do with your trauma might be "reacting in a complicated way", but that doesn't make it ok. It's not a requirement for those who you support to support you back, but you do hope for it, and you get disappointed when they don't. I'm only human and I react in complicated ways too, or as the Charmed theme goes "I'm human and I need to be loved".
Thank you for making this video. The Rose McGowen clip was painful and transphobic. Her brand of activism is exclusionary and lacks nuance and understanding of issues that don't pertain to her.
So I don't really see a huge issue with the podcast clip. There is an enormous difference in how men and women are socialized as children and that shapes women's world views in a way that you cannot completely understand unless you've also been socialized that way for years. If you grew up in our society as boy and then transitioned to a women in your late teens/twenties or later, that is going to impact you in a different way. I wish we lived in a world where this is not the case, but its our current reality and I think denying that is unrealistic.
That being said, I do think the second clip is BS. Its not fair to shut down transwomen. It was just a question and Rose overreacted in a an aggressive way.
I think both points (socialization plays a huge impact and transwomen experience higher rates of discrimination) can be acknowledged and respected
NaturalPureCurly19 the problem is that Rose seems to think cis women are the only people that have vaginas and get cat called as children. Trans men and nonbinary people exist also some trans women transition as children. Also Rose thinks all of their experiences are universal which they’re not
I'm glad I watched and saw this video, It made me do my own research on her and there seems to be just so many problematic things she has said in the past and in the present. It's sort of weird how she keeps commenting on "LGBT people" and then says women issues, like those issues, can't or don't cross over one another. This is why intersectional needs to be more of a thing. women not being able to get birth control still effects the LGBT community. They are not exclusive. She has said other comments similar to her Ellen response and it's like she just doesn't get how these issues still affect those in the LGBT community and how LGBT issues still affect women. They are all civil right issues that keep people from living their life without being marginalized. A person can be both LGBT and identify as a woman. -- It needs to be acknowledged just how all these issues cross over and affect people's lives. That's how bad oppression can be, a person can have their rights restricted on multiple fronts...
I will never be over "you should be grateful." I haven't even heard the Ru Paul clip! She's a trainwreck!
That part with her talking on the podcast was so infuriating when she was like "A lot of these things I hear about from my trans friends are just like welcome to the world, welcome to my world".
Girl how do you not understand that women complaining about sexism is not only normal but important?
yeah how does tht take away from you. these discussions should become COMISERATIOn not competition...
I agree with what you said about Rose McGowan and I think her activism is clearly exclusive. But wasn't Andi Dier accused of harassment and assault by a ton of people? Maybe that's worth bringing up.
obviously if that's true it's an issue, but that doesn't negate the fact that what she said is true and goes beyond the context of this interaction. i just don't think that's the point here. the point is that someone brought up this issue, and mcgowan, who claims to be an activist for women's rights, made it very clear that she will not listen to or take into account the struggles trans women face. i am in no way condoning harassment or assault, but i don't think that changes the conversation here. it can't invalidate what she said because it wasn't an opinion; it is fact that trans women face more violence than cis women, and the point is that mcgowan literally denied that this is true and tried to act like trans women asking her to acknowledge their issues is harmful and/or discriminatory toward her.
Fernando Andi is a sexual abuser but that doesn’t give Rose permission to be a TERF. They’re both awful people.
Oh shit, I wasn't aware of that. I stand by what I said about trans-inclusive feminism, but wish I had known that so I could have included that in the video.
+SushiRoll Speaks Okay. Being a rapist and pedophile isn't on the same playing field as being a second wave feminist. Andi has assaulted and ruined people's lives. radical feminists have a different kind of feminism that's controversial, but they don't rape people or hurt children.
+Claire Isabella I feel like it does change the interaction, because now it's a rapist going to the book signing of a rape victim and trying to discredit her when most of the people who went to that signing wished to hear Rose's story of being a survivor. Andi made it about herself. Also their both kinda right and wrong: black transwoman who are sex workers (many living in poorer countries) are murdered more. White trans people are murdered and assaulted the average amount.
transrespect.org/en/research/trans-murder-monitoring/
That's why I almost never talk feminism with people IRL... Because I have social anxiety that I'm dealing with and someone reacting to something I said the way that Rose did would make me fucking panic no matter what was being said.
Where do you get your statistics?
Honestly I see so many people talking about how horrible Rose is and yeah I totally agree...but I can't help but feel really weird hating a woman who CLEARLY is deeply damaged in a maybe unfixable way. She grew up in a cult, she went through the ringer in Hollywood and now she's so blindly angry that she refuses to see views outside of her own. Its sad honestly.
If you were in Rose's shoes being aggressively called out by a trans woman how would you deescalate the situation? Rose did pretty much the opposite, what would an intersectional feminist do?
I lost respect for McGowan.
The article says that people won't regret coming out...it doesn't say it will be easy. Wouldn't all people rather be true to themselves rather than feel trapped in an identity that isn't true. Even if it means confrontation or conflict.
Weeelllllll you are a white and cis Rose. Like yeah.
@@oglefrugalbugel9646 wow uh I don't even know how to start with this. Yes, trans women have male privilege until they come out but staying in the closet has a huge toll on mental health, with the *constant* dysphoria driving many trans people to self harm and attempt suicide. Also what keeps most people in the closet is *dread* of being rejected and of being disowned There's also the fact that one in 12 trans people are murdered, and they're normally trans women. Trans people are more likely to victims of sexual assault and/or domestic abuse. In many states you can be fired or evicted for being trans, and in many there's a legal defense called "trans panic" which helps murderers get away with killing trans people with little or no punishment. Trans people can also be denied healthcare for being trans, and much of medical transition isn't covered by insurance. Yes, it's difficult living as a woman (I know, I used to live as one) and cis women face many problems that cis men don't. But it is VERY ignorant to say that cis women somehow have it harder than trans women. Being in the closet isn't a convenient way to gain privilege- it's torture and many try kill themselves because of it.
I think Ian Mckellan was just saying that once you come out even if it fucking sucks in the beginning once you reach an equilibrium you never really regret it.
I have huge respect for McGowan but I do think she handled this situation badly...I’d like to give her the benefit of the doubt and think it came from a place of great frustration and stress. But I hope she’ll be a bit more inclusive and intersectional going forward.
Why would Marina be held accountable for Trump if he said he was a feminist?
The list of things one has to include when talking about a subject is getting longer and longer everyday.
Yeah, pretty soon you'll have to recite the entire damn alphabet when talking about these weirdos.
Thank you for making this! I had no idea about what the context was
Honestly though she seems like such a rude, horrible person. The way she spoke was so violent and extreme. It amazes me anyone could speak to someone in the crowd like that. I had go skip past it was too hurtful.
When feminists and trans fight for the wokest and the most victimized title, men can take some rests
It's amazing how you're able to describe the complexities of "so much stuff", it's a gift. Cheers.
Oo that clip made my guts explode ew
Thank you for the great comments! Cis and trans are not slurs.
I did agree with Rose in that trans women have no idea what it is like growing up into becoming a woman. Cis women have no idea what it's like to transition - these are two completely different topics. But the outburst was unnecessary and I wish she
had responded better. Trans women have it far worse when it comes to violence and mistreatment. but it doesn't mean cis women have it any better - there is no better when it comes to any violence. I do have a lot of respect for her as she did pave the way in bringing the allegations toward Weinstein forward and I'll always be grateful to her because of the movement it has started. Her image has been destroyed by the weinstein owned media consistently for many years, everyone had been calling her a liar, she grew up in a cult, she was raped. I mean this would screw anyone up. What I'm saying is I'm upset at how she lashed out but I can't judge her.
welcome to wombynhood sweaty :^)
Zoe Gaia 😂😭🤣
Zoe Gaia Yes, women have wombs. Do you have a problem with this, you hidden misogynist?
Hahaaha the world needs more mockery of terfs
@@elizabethh.415 I hope this is sarcasm :) Sure most women have wombs but not all do, verifiable fact.
I once accidentally insulted Rose McGowan to her face because I was awkward and not good at words. I felt bad about it for a long time. I no longer feel bad.
So calling someone cis and white is labeling someone? Holy crap...
It's TECHNICALLY labeling, because of course it is, just like calling someone woman or human or living or real. It's always a label, that's how language works. But I really think she took it as an insult and is just using the word "label" interchangeably with "insult", which is just, huh, wrong, but more to the point, if you react as if you're being insulted when you're (correctly) labeled as cis and white, that kind of HINTS at the same implications as when white male jerks react defensively when someone (correctly) labels them as white and male. It HINTS that they have been called out before, in the context of pointing out those labels, which is probably a sign that someone led to those call outs.
I don't know, just deconstructing. Good take on this, IMHO, Marina.
Rose McGowan, what is your damage??
Nice to see a feminist represent herself. I'm tired of people hating on equality.
I didn't listen (and most likely won't) to the RuPaul podcast episode, but I can't imagine he challenged what Rose was saying about trans women. The validation that woman continues to get for her violent beliefs is honestly terrifying.
Love Rose!
Yeeeaaah, she obviously has some pent up rage against trans women, and sadly this isn't the first feminist I've seen who seems to be inclusive of trans women, but then turns around and gets really hostile and belittling on the topic of genitalia or sexual assault. I do think that the person in the audience could have approached Rose without the whole "finger pointing" mentality, but coming unhinged the way she did just doesn't do her any good. I cannot begin to fathom what Rose has been through, but she didn't have to come undone like that when all she had to do was use logic, which I'm sure she has plenty of! Unfortunately, her comments about trans people have definitely made me feel even more uncomfortable about being trans than I did before hearing them 😧
She sounds like she thinks she is the ultimate victim of patriarchal values when really there are other much more vulnerable than she is. I really don't like how she was shutting down what that trans person was trying to say.
Thanks for sharing; interestingly, I was unable to see an exclusion from her part. But what do I know is that not all that seems is clear in all sides.
yeesh. Yeesh. yeesh.
I feel sorry for her about her rape. I was raped by my ex gf, I did not trust women for a lot of years after that. I get how damaging that is. But I think as she say trans women doesn’t understand what it’s like growing up or developing as a woman she doesn’t understand their hardships. Women have it pretty good in the western world where as trans women does not and they are shunned by society. They are seen as perversions and and not really seen as human beings I don’t think she can understand what they are going through. One doesn’t have to take away from the other
I love your channel!!
Fantastic video, really well said.
Next time that happens to your audio, how about re-shooting the video? You don't memorise a script, trek out to a location, find cast & crew, not even more than 1 camera angle.
I saw that response she made to Ellen's Tweet being shared by some of my facebook friends and I was a little confused about it but I'm glad you put it into words.
1:40 I get that coming out can be dangerous for many people, but there are SO many people who stay in the closet for too long fearing prosecution that a bit of encouragement is not something I'd be against? Like, you do realize that whatever the circumstances, the closet is not the best place for a queer person to be in, right? It may be the safest option, but being in the closet still negatively affects a lot of people's mental health, and I count myself among people who was in the closet for too long, and it wasn't good for me.
You are such a cop out. You disable comments just because people disagree with you
I'm so confused - why did she react so dramatically???
Kudos to u! This was a very balanced approach to what happened. I was very bothered by the things Rose has said against the LGBT community, but until this, I just looked at it as her POV and still had much empathy for her. This was bothersome though. I think you articulated it very well. And given what we now know about Andy Dier, it kind of underscores however that the issue is not about one woman against another. What Rose said was still very divisive. Also, I would like to say I was bothered by her comment about gay men not doing anything for women. Well, she hasn’t met me or my friends. I have always stood for and defended my sisters and always will. I don’t like people who try to divide those of us fighting for the same thing.
Oh, I'm sorry...THE fucking victim.
I REALLY want you to analyze Rose's video in depth but I don't have a credit card to pay for Patreon and I can't ask my dad because I'm not out yet :'(
yoo do you have an email or somewhere I can send you the link?
I do have an email. It's leondenemea29@gmail.com I'd really appreciate if you send me the link. You're so amazing!
Her whole breakdown sounded like it was coming from a "Skeptic" youtuber. It was really weird and it boggles my mind that this is the kind of thing that a feminist activist would say.
Thank god for women like you
No one is owed someone else's time or attention, especially if they come into the situation in an aggressive or threatening way. Andi was not looking for a conversation, she was looking for a confrontation, and Rose was not obligated to be nice and passive in return. I would never expect a trans woman to remain friendly and polite in the face of someone who was being incredibly accusatory and loud, especially in a context where there wasn't an invitation for a debate. I don't agree with Rose, but I feel like this reaction was less transphobia and more PTSD-type reaction to feeling threatened. Whether or not her views in a normal scenario are transphobic, I can't say.
I really like your videos I think you're so smart and I can tell you have really done your research and you are so great and hugs from me :)
Oh my fucking god, i never watched the full rose mcgowan video. That's disgusting
Well in some cases…women are not always WOMEN ! Thats my point ..don’t be mad about it 😘
I watched the whole clip and Rose McGowan was completely in the right in that incident. Rose was talking about her personal trama because of her being raped and this Trans person out of nowhere, decided to accuse Rose of not helping Trans women, specifically only Trans women? It was totally left field and really did not contribute anything to Rose's story. The trans person may have had a valid argument but that was a very inappropriate time and place to bring it up.
Can you please talk about Caitlyn jenner? People always discuss how she isn't a good trans role model but I would love to hear someone just solidly discuss it and why
Rose McGowan's comments were definitely transphobic, but I do hope people consider how her trauma has been capitulated into the spotlight recently. I think she's struggling to deal with everything that's happened, and while that definitely doesn't justify her behavior, it can help us react to her more emphatically.
I'm sorry but Rose isn't a feminist, she's a plain old opportunist, anywhere the wind blows.
She harbours some deep seated vile bigoted ⬅(Terfs, etc) views aswell, not someone anybody should take an example from.
And her hanging her hat on the #Metoo movement is dishonest at best, outright opportunistic and subversive for her own designs at worst.
She's not doing that legitimate movement or its cause any favours.
Very deep thinking. I love it.
Wow Rose; that is definitely NOT ok... WTF?... I am intensely disappointed in her.. I thought she was inclusive but apparently not...
Wow she is awful
Charmed is a great show tho, it's unfortunate to hear her say those things.
Yikes, she is a mess. And people were clapping...