Carbon Vs Aluminium | What's The Difference?
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- The majority of popular mountain bike frames are made of one of two materials, carbon fibre, or aluminium. There are of course pros and cons to both materials, including strength and durability, weight, price, features and compliance. Neil and Rich saddle up on Canyon Spectrals, one carbon and one aluminium, to discuss the differences between the ride characteristics and practicalities of both of the frame materials on offer.
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Intro
00:24 - Price and Costing
02:01 - Comfort & Feel
05:01 - Bike Weight
05:39 - Frame Stiffness
07:08 - Durability
8:52 - How Does That Translate To The Ride?
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Спорт
5 to 10 years for an aluminium frame?????? What are you doing to it Rich, whacking it with a hammer every time you ride?
Indeed, I'm still riding a 23yr old Aluminium Cannondale FS daily most weeks.
@@1964HallSame here,my Merida Aluminum 6061TFS 300 is 12 years old 69 000km and still as solid as a house,Aluminium last a lifetime.💯👌🏻💪🏻
Rich has almost zero technical knowledge about frame material and metallurgy,many of the GNC presenters are not educated about material science and metallurgy.😕
Not quite sure where he got that 5 to 10 years number. I still ride a 1985 Cannondale road bike and a 1995 Klein mountain bike, and there is no sign of fatigue or cracking on either frame.
@@gemshiddenhistories6575 That's awesome to hear,they did a frame fatigue by German magazine Tour in 1997 and a Cannondale Caad3 was tested,they couldn't break the frame after 200.000 cycles of 1200 newton's force and 1300 newton's force respectively.Alumimium alloys are extremely durable and long lasting.
Let's be honest: most people buy carbon bikes because they have the budget and because they look clean without weld lines.
To justify the expense to themselves they talk themselves into believing they feel the difference despite spending too much time in their office chair and not enough on the bikes...
THIS
Lol i by no means rich but when they told me the biggest upgrade on a bike is carbon rims I didn’t believe them. Decided to try bontrager line elite and haven’t looked back biggest upgrade you can do and they will take anything you throw at them
There’s no doubt they’re good bikes but it’s the people man. Just because they have the budget they buy the most expensive bike setups and their skill level is not even there. My buddy and I ride hardtails and send it more than people with full suspensions. We always get comments like “dang you guys are doing this on rigids too”
I think carbon frames look like f4t chicks. I would rather see nice welds and smaller tubing.
I'm 99% sure I can feel the difference between a 29lbs trail bike and a 34lbs trail bike... So no, it's not just the clean look
Had a quick search. This is the 7th Carbon vs Aluminium video GMBN has done.
😆 I guess the question never gets old. Plus there's only so much you can say about a bike.
Quantity > Quality
Not a single one of them with any real material science in. This is just a load of anecdotal woo woo.
How about they try an measure how much a frame flexes compared to rims compared to tyres compared to suspension.
That would put an end to all this "compliance" sales talk.
And there will be more. Cf is still being improved upon as there are still weaknesses (particularly in side load durability) that surpass discussions about price
The main difference, in fact, is that they are not the same material.
Putting that Gen Y education to good use. Glad you put yourself $250,000 on debt for that.
@@CANNABISfreedomNOtaxes
Haha maybe chill on the keefer my friend and you'll recognize sarcasm a bit easier. 😘
Its ironic when people have to point out that they're being sarcastic while blatantly ignoring the sarcasm in my replies.
@@CANNABISfreedomNOtaxesGet off the drugs
@@hc3820 I hope you're following your court order to stay 1000 feet away from schools and playgrounds
I would rather have an aluminium frame with top end components and also save myself a few hundred pounds which can go back into suspension service and riding kit.
That's a good way of looking at it!
I think I am in this boat. I was fortunate to have sold a business this year and carved out a decent amount to get myself and my wife new ebikes. I debated this for months leading up to the purchase. I am a bit old school, been riding for decades and maybe I just still don't trust carbon. I ended up with 2 Lapierre overvolts, Because they are alloy. In the end I just know too many people who have broken carbon frames. I only know of a few rare cases where the same has happened to people I know with alloy.
I will say though that some of the decision probably was influenced by the specs. My wife got a lower spec bike Overvolt trail edition 5.6. I went with the overvolt AM 8.7. The prices right now in the market are insane for deals. The spec of this bike in a carbon frame half a year ago would have been 3-4 thousand euros more. In fact even this exact bike should have been 2k more. We always buy our new gear in the off season but this year. WOW
I've ridden steel hardtails for the first 7 years of my MTB journey , this is my 8th year and i came into a bit of money and got myself a brand new santa cruz nomad, can't say i can feel the carbon since its all suspension , but i love it .
My bikes have been slowly been going back to alloy. I don’t hold on to a bike for probably more than 5 years. Saves me money to sink upgrades into the bike, especially carbon wheels. I’ve seen no performance decreases when switching back to an alloy frame, but I did see an improvement when switching to carbon wheels
I’ve only ever broken steel and aluminum frames. Have never broken a carbon frame (or wheel).
Only 5 to 10 years from an alloy frame? who told you that?
And 20 years for carbon... xD I think this vid mustve been sponsored xD
personaly i had stressfractures on alloy and steel frames but never on carbon frames
GCN is sorly ignorant about metallurgy and material science but they think are the expert's in this field.😕
The sponsor told them to lie.
@@code3xiv Lie's,they're all lie's.😅
Wait - did you just say aluminum lasts as little as 5 years while carbon fiber lasts 20? Maybe in a garage, but attrition has eaten most of the carbon fiber bikes from less than 20 years ago and meanwhile half the bikes on the road today are aluminum ones from 12+ years ago.
Ive seen carbon frames tear appart from small jumps / medium rock gardens ( all on youtube 😅) compared to aluminium lol
1:38 problem here is that a decent amount of bike companies dont make high spec alu models, but only high end carbon models.
Basically they want you to buy top end models or expensive ones...
Trek... SMH
So frustrating! There are just a couple of brands out there like Cotic that give more flexibility with builds. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like companies would sell bikes like hot cakes if they stocked aluminum bikes with really solid suspension, good wheels, and mid-tier drivetrains (like SLX or even Deore/SLX mix).
A lot of companies do have good spec Al bikes. Trek was mentioned before so take a look at Slash 8, nothing to upgrade but tires.@@ghostAFsky
Totally agree with you. Except for Commencal it's hard to find a high end alu bike.
What do you mean by "high end"? I think most all brands I'm aware of off the top of my head at least have aluminum models with at least Shimano SLX, if not XT component options and effectively the same shocks/forks (albeit maybe not the absolute top end Fox Factory or a fork with a GRIP 2 damper). The XT groupset is probably the most popular "workhorse" in the Shimano lineup. If you're going with higher end components like an XTR, you're only doing that for weight savings or status symbol. Many argue that the XTR is actually more fragile and finicky than the XT, so if you just want a reliable drivetrain to rip on, the XT may actually be better than the XTR. It doesn't make much sense to spend the extra $$$ on an ultra-light drivetrain without also saving a couple pounds off the frame.
I ride a hardtail canyon exceed cf 6 from 2018, for almost 3 years with alumínium DTSWISS rim's and i love it. 80% of the time is riden in gravel fire road's. But what it realy love it's the quick response of it. Its fantastic. Happy new year!!!
Exactly! Over my alu hardtail frame, the response is superior. The acceleration is superior. The confort is superior. If done right, carbon frames are amazing. For everyday use, I use alu frames. For racing, carbon ones.
I run a carbon frame, aluminum crank, and carbon wheels on a spring/summer/fall fatbike setup. In the winter I swap to aluminum wheels. This video is very informative as running full carbon on a single track doesn't allow alot of flex through the bumpy rough rocks and tree roots. However when I ride cross country on flat only, the bike ride is fast and amazing. I also notice the high engagement hubs changes the bike dynamics as well on both single track and cross country.
In XC most riders will use a full carbon set up as the stiffer ride helps with a more direct power transfer. Sounds like your set up works for you which is all that matters! 🤘
This is just my humble opinion : If you can afford to have 2 mountain bikes -> One XC type of bike (full sus or hardtail) with carbon frame, so light and stiff - and the 2nd one more trail or enduro in aluminium, a bit heavier but with more flex (full sus or course). That's quite a budget but at least you can do racing with one and go in the alps with the other.
That doesn't seem to make any sense but sure. Gotta love xc,where apparently even your frame's material matters more than your skill
@@almabatekert_villanykorte3387 Hum I never said that... You can have an xc bike with aluminium and a trail bike with carbon... And yes the skills and the good shape of the rider is what's most important in the end.
thats exactly the setup I am aiming for. I do have an xc aluminium HT that only ways 12,0kg and is pretty fast but a bit more fragile looking (slim tubing here and there to save weight). I am now looking for a full sus trail/all mountain type of bike with 150&140mm travel to go to the alps.
@@Blunt33bdx Makes sense,but I was in my yearly "haha xc bad" period,sorry
I love my Vitus Sommet in carbon! 🔥 Had it for 3years and not a single problem with the frame! It's such a playful bike, running it on 27.5 Assegai tyres! 🤘
My shop has seen 3 of those for creased down tubes where it meets the head tube.
ok@@scotthamlinbmx
My Whyte T130 carbon, like some other FS bikes, is carbon front triangle only (same with my son’s 2006 Scott Genius he had way back when) but still a useful weight saving (about 500g claimed on the Whyte although I think it’s a bit less genuinely).
Definitely noticed the bike is a little harsher since I went to a carbon front wheel (all round a stiffer wheel anyway), but for most my riding it works out just fine, I just back the damping on the fork off a little more and while it’s not the same effect it mitigates it a bit.
This is a great great video!
It isn't though is it, as he does not back any of his claims up with evidence.
He is not clear on it. But he is talking about gradual stressing of the alloy over time. Micro tears that eventually fail. Carbon doesn't really get that because of the material properties but a very hard impact could get a sudden catastrophic fail.
and if you ride somewhere rocky where lose rocks get kicked up at times hitting frame and if you ever go down you've got impact on rock, I'll take aluminum over carbon.
i think gmbn loves a carbon frame alltough they know Al is better and are trying to convince us that cf is better
My first thought when Rich said aluminum frames last only 5-10 years was "He doesn't know what he's talking about." as I have two aluminum bikes from the 1980's and 1990's that are still going strong. But then I realized that the way Klein and Cannondale made frames back then is totally different than how they are made now. Then they took oversized tubes of 6061 aluminum and specially welded them into frames. Now with hydro-forming, the aluminum is stretched and thinned and shaped before welding, leading to some very thin walled sections, something the old aluminum frames didn't have. I can see how they would fatigue and possibly crack at those thin sections with only 5 to 10 years of riding.
I was riding in the 90s and people around me renamed Cannondale to "Crackendale", and I figured this was a common thing with the brand, so I avoided their bikes(plus they made silly things like the Lefty fork and other "why?" things). So it may be how you ride your bikes, your weight, etc. I've broken(or cracked, bent) every frame I've owned since beginning(could be within a month or a year, maybe two of ownership)....except for the Kona Hei Hei Ti frame---indestructible! And to be fair, I'm 6'4 and ride pretty rowdy putting a lot of stress on frames and components
My Cannondale is from 1985, when they were making the simpler frame design with 6061 aluminum tubing that was not custom shaped. And my Klein, from 1995 is one of the last made by Gary's folks before Trek took them over. Again, simpler 6061 aluminum tubing with little custom shaping. I'm probably a good deal lighter than you, at 5'11", and I do take particularly good care of my bikes. But I also ride them hard.
@@GoodwinGlassworks we used to call them cracknfail
Most manufacturers, Giant for instance offer a lifetime warranty on the frame.
@@gemshiddenhistories6575 There are certainly occasions when you get "lucky". It's said that things made on Friday in a factory may not be as well built(with anything). I've owned two Jeep Cherokees...the second had all the high end stuff, and at 95,000 miles the thing became a liability to my life! So, I sold it! It seems people have a 50/50 affair with those vehicles(random example). As well, I've bought a LOT of the super high end bike components because I believed the cost equaled durability...and safety to my face and body. I've destroyed some of these parts in weeks. It may get warranteed and I have the new one that lasts much longer than the first one i bought
Just bought a Specialized Chisel Comp aluminium hardtail (at a pretty nutty bargain price) and although some of the componentry is not top shelf, the frame is a thing of beaty - probably the lightest in the world of xc alloy frames - and with the most elegant slim tubing, making it almost as skinny as a steel bike. With new lighter wheels, cassette + other minor replacement parts (and even a 150mm dropper) its now lighter, more agile and a lot more appealing to the eye than most (if not all) spec-wise comparable midrange carbon hardtails with their more bulky frames.
And price wise a LOT cheaper than a similar build would be if it was CF.
So for a fun bike, this is a hoot. ❤
I have a chisel ltd ed frame , cracking bike, climbs like a mountain goat, and smooth on everything else. Good choice👍
I also ride one. Installed a 110mm sid, 150mm dropper, and new wheels. It's perfect for the trails in my area where most people are overbiked.
dream frame for me that one. Especially the LTD version!
I got the Epic Hardtail Comp on sale for the price of the Chisel so can't complain 😂
I am a newer rider who did buy into the carbon hype after compulsively obsessing over bikes n parts etc for my first 2 years. I ended up with a Pivot 429 (alloy wheels) purchased from a friend. The bike is great and the Pivot frames are top notch. They only produce carbon frames. That said I could have easily saved $1,000 and still ended up with a bike I’d probably enjoy just as much. Oh well..
As a larger rider I used to think that carbon fiber mountain bikes weren't durable enough, so I didn't even consider it, but after cracking the frame (no crashes involved) multiple times, I switched to carbon fiber and haven't had a frame failure since. That was about 8 years ago.
How did you manage to crack multiple aluminum frames without crashing?
@@Durwood71 aluminum seems to crack frequently. Chainstays are a very common failure. They fail at the welds.
I'm 20 Stone and got my first carbon bike in 1997. A Trek Y11. I still have the bike. Though now it is a RIGID single speed! Currently the main bike is an Orbea Rise Carbon with Alloy wheels. Mostly because I had to save a buck somewhere LOL. Maybe because of my size, I don't find carbon too stiff. And it absorbs a lot of 'vibration'. Though, hydro alloy is very nice, and frame for frame negligibly heavier than carbon. But once you spec out a really nice bike, the weld lines on a lot of alloy bikes just don't look good and its worth it for that smooth carbon.
@@Cassienope You must really be abusing your frames if that's a common problem for you.
@@Durwood71 there are two type of people in the MTB world. Those who break shit and those who don't.
I do most riding up Scottish mountains. Occasional (big) tumbles happen.
Aluminium frames bend or dent and I can ride down - CF breaks and I’m lugging the thing home.
AL all day.
For most of us, especially in case of MTB, the difference is in price and frame longevity.
I don't know what aluminium these guys are riding but being a mechanic for over 30 yrs I've seen aluminium bikes last as much as 20years and carbon crack in less than 5. True, carbon has gotten better but aluminium is tried, tested and proven.
AND aluminum has gotten better as well 😆
I've got two Carbon framed long travel bikes with alloy rims. My hardtail is Ti with full XTR..
But, now I'm retired, my next bike will be Alu - I just ride for fun and I think I can get better bang for my buck on an alloy bike with nice components.
i am on a carbon frame (yt decoy) with aluminium wheels (crankbrothers synthesis). love it
More direct contact points like bars and potentially wheels make sense. Carbon frames are wayyy overrated for the average rider.
My carbon bike feels laterally stiffer than the last two aluminium bikes I've had. I think this feels better when climbing really technical stuff. It weighs about 29 lbs despite some 2.6 tires.
Still have 2 x XC AL frames, one 20 the other 25 years old, not even oxidised from the inside, just renewed these bikes and they stayin! :)
Alloy full-sus / hardtail and roadbike in my garage. Have been riding loads of bikes (including carbon) and still enjoy the way alloy rides. Modern alloy frames also look quite nice and handle perfectly. The weight difference is minimal on my bikes compared to carbon counterparts so thats never been a thing for me
Just bought a Polygon Syncline C5 carbon hardtail, rides great, going to upgrade to tubeless tyres soon 🚴
Tubeless is great! What tyres are you going for?
@@gmbn Got a pair of Bontrager XR2 XC Style tyres, Trek had 30% off special over Xmas 🚴
Why doesn’t anyone mention that carbon fibre can also be repaired? I’ve personally seen a significant hole in the top tube of a Trek Slash (rock strike due to crash) be repaired with no trace from stock paint job. Bike continues to be ridden hard 18 months later with zero issues!
That was a great mix of factors compared! With So many variables, including different rider preferences and perceptions, seems one might just really need to RIDE each and make their own decisions. Thanks Rich & Neil!
You know what carbon is? A fashion statement. I still use my 10 year old YT Capra (fully aluminium apart from the upper section of the rear triangle), and guarantee I will still send it harder than all these other guys on their fancy carbon bikes.
It’s like 1kg heavier than the carbon bikes, it doesn’t explode on its first drop, no stupid £500 29inch rims that fold on a slight bump, and it’s been with me round the world. Never getting a new bike unless it snaps.
Best comparison video between both materials that I’ve seen… keep those great videos coming!
Any science on both materials wrt the actual forces that make it to you through the suspension?
I keep detailed records of my rides. Distance, time etc, and have fatigue broke a MTN and road aluminum frame after way fewer hours than is on my current carbon MTN frame
Does anyone know which brand the jackets are that the presenters are wearing?
Buy alloy and with the money saved you can plan a sick biketrip abroad
Please further explain why ally only lasts 5 - 10 years?
Depends on the usage pattern, but aluminium will develop stress fractures over time. How much time depends on a large range of factors.
@AndreasRavnestad and carbon doesn't?
@@symonhammond5623 There is a abundance of technical documentation of the mechanical properties of carbon fiber vs. aluminium, so I won't lecture you on that since you can look it up yourself. But to answer your argument (not mine) -- yes, carbon fiber can develop stress fractures. But it takes _a lot more stress_ to do so. And a major difference from aluminium is that carbon fiber composites can easily be repaired and reinforced.
@@AndreasRavnestad let’s see what happens to that carbon frame when you lay it down on a small rock and develop a small area of delamination. The same impact on a metal frame would do zero damage.
@@petrosspetrosgali Applying a force to a carbon frame that causes damage will at best dent the aluminium frame and at worst crack it badly. Carbon is much, much stronger than aluminium. The premise for your argument is simply false.
I say this, I like the idea of CF sets, but as a long time non rider it is expensive but for the things I would do with it light with slight flex is a good thing, but I am not thinking a lot about recumbent tricycle, because I am starting to get on in years.
I have one full carbon bike(frame, rims, crank, bars) and one aluminum (Except l have carbon bars on it) both are 135mm/150mm bikes and yes you absolutely can tell a difference. The carbon is more precise and lighter, where you can feel the weight of the aluminum bike and it feels a bit more dull on the trial.
Tire pressure changes are more noticeable on the carbon bike.
Im a big dude and developed cracks in my aluminum specialized stumpy in 5 places after 6 years. Ended up going carbon on my santa cruz and then again on a yeti. No issues.
Thinking about buying a carbon bike the orbea rise m-team or m10 just concerned about frame cracking ?
Can you review steel?
Hi guys can you please tell what jacket's you are wearing please thanks
Dainese Bike HGC Shell LT Jacket
If in a certain budget and all things being equal except for the frame…I’ll take the aluminum frame. With the savings…you can upgrade the stock wheels. Right now…with the market the was it is…you can get some crazy deals in bikes. You can get a carbon bike for the price of aluminum.
At full-suses, CF or AL is just a question of weight, budget and brand / design. Personally, CF or AL is even more a question of durability, reliability and noises / creeking than a question of riding feel. The matching contact points, bike fit, apropiate angles for the use as well as correctly adjusted and working suspension is much more significant for a compliant ride. And perfect geometry comes priceless, no matter the material.
I own an aluminum mountain bike and have ridden several carbon bikes, but I genuinely don't understand the "stiffness" and "compliant" argument. Do the tires and suspension not have 150mm (or whatever your travel is) of "compliance" already built in? I'm not saying that they don't have different compliance characteristics, but I don't understand how you could feel that small of a difference if you're already riding on a pillow. Seems a bit like the princess and the pea story.
That said, I am scheduled to buy a carbon mountain bike to add to the stable tomorrow, but I'm not buying it because it's carbon. I'm buying it because it's a hecking good deal and is actually cheaper than my aluminum mountain bike was 8 years ago!
I'd love to see a video where these vague terms are quantified somehow both on their own and including suspension, wheel, and tire flexj!
How tall are they and what size of their frame
Big fan of saving money by getting alum model and immediately taking saved money to upgrade the suspension. Sell unused stock suspension to fund further upgrades (brakes, dropper, etc) and you can get close to top spec bike at MUCH less than the carbon version. Then, enjoy crushing on the trails. Note: I am endruro rider.
This exact question was bothering me for quite some time but unexpectedly I had the possibility to test it myself aka. the real difference that a carbon frame makes on a full suspension mtb. Long story short, I've bought a used 2020 Lapierre Zesty 4.0 AM and the day later I've noticed that due some issues Lapierre had decided to recall all bike from that period for frame swap. Before the new frame was actually available I've had the chance to run the bike for 7 months and believe me it wasn't collection dust in the basement. Swapped frame wasn't a Zesty anymore but a 2022 carbon Spicy team frame. All the other components remained the same and my verdict is there is NO noticeable difference for a non PRO rider. People tend to forget when jumping from a 2.5k alu bike to a 5k carbon bike it is not all about the frame but all the components make the carbon bike feel better. My advice, get an alu frame with geometry that suits you equipped with decent forks and shocks and save the extra money for upgrades when eventually parts need to be changed.
Thank god for it since it keeps alloy frame prices cheaper but damn if it isn't amazing how many people are not only riding plastic bikes but paying extra for the privilege
how does a carbon frame last 2-4 times as long as aluminium ? , i had a top fuel 9.9 ssl and the chainstay had to be replaced and the bearings had wore away the carbon , this bike had only done about 300 miles of riding , i rode my Raleigh grifter about 3000 miles and the only thing that was replaced were the tyres brake cables, saddle and grips and pedals
Not a MTB, but in Canada, a aluminum Trek Domane AL5 is around 2650 dollars. And the SL5 carbon version is over 4500! Granted, the carbon one has slightly better tires, and iso speed dampening, but that's still almost two thousand dollars more.
That was amazing, better then disney could ever do .
cheers
2006 F800 Cannondale i had for just over 7 years and 35000 miles developed a crack around the bottom bracket. I got a free F3 2013 BB 30 frame from Cannondale and had it for 10 years and 40,000 miles "have a computer to verify miles" and it's still going. The Taiwan made frame is going longer than the USA made one I had.
My alu is a 2016 scott scale hd and it looks ok, at least on surface, and many kms was at rough terrain,i suppose depends from circumstances 🤔
I love watching you guys, but your lifetime assessment of materials is backwards. How often do we all hear about cracked carbon frames vs aluminum. please elaborate on why you express that carbon lasts twenty years vs aluminum four years. Thanks for all of the awesome videos.
Whenever this subject comes up, people talk like there have been no advances in aluminum (or steel/titanium) since carbon came out which is simply not true.
I'd argue that on full suspension bikes that the tire selection makes a bigger difference for ride comfort, vibration, etc... than frame material.
5 to 10 years life for an alu frame?! I'd be interested to hear how you arrived at that statement.
I got my first emtb on Saturday there after watching your video's and the other channels i felt it was time to get back on the bike after a long time off! So can't thank you enough for the motivation! I went for the 2023 cube 160 action team it seemed to be pretty well speced and got 2k off the price from MTB Monster just now! It came with carbon bars and front triangle but totally fine with that as was abit wary of carbon frames but cube only does this and now I've got it and sat on it waw what a tank of a bike! Ive not had a proper shot of it yet as waiting for the frame wrap and new sam hill pedles for it as never come with pedles which is pretty crazy for the price's! I'm starting again with my bike's as last o e was a kona stink like 15 plus years ago! Had a bad accident and then life took Over but now that's me sorted thanks to the video's for motivation to getting back Into it! Now I need to learn about these fox 38 forks and rear shock adjustments and get some tubeless set up! If anyone reads this the breaks are XT 4 piston and XT discs am I still needing to bed these in like before with the discs? Just a cringe mom scuffi up these discs lol
After years of riding on chromoly, then switched to aluminium, then on carbon. After a tew years on carbon, going back to chromoly. Nothing beats the natural dampening of chromoly for my style of riding personally.
If it works for you that's all that matters! Keep shredding 🤘
I have a orbea rallon and its full cf
For those of us who have practiced MTB since the 90s, we know that the welding bead on a bicycle frame is the most beautiful thing there is! My bicycle is a Cannondale f 700 from 2000, and it is still as strong as it was in its time.
Ha! love this. cough cough, I started riding a Mountain bike in the late 80's. I am also a bit of a novice welder. I love to look at the welds on bikes. I was definitely bummed when they started hydroforming frames and smoothing or covering the welds.
@@wirtzling I think that at some point people will know how to appreciate those small details that made MTB the sport that we all love today. But it is true that minimalism took over the aesthetics of mountain bikes, leaving aside their more aggressive aesthetics, as it was until the 2000s.
Absolutely. Aluminium frames can have chunky but clean weld beads. But Chromoly frames on the other hand will have fine clean welds with very small beads, considering how thin the tube walls are. I love the 90s chromoly bikes from my younger days so much that during the Covid lockdowns with time on my hands, I sourced for vintage "new old stock" Shimano Deore parts and a beautiful "modernized" Chromoly MTB frame (27.5er with disc mounts) and built myself a relatively lightweight "retro" bike, and I love it to bits.. It's definitely more masculine and gorgeous in my eyes than carbon fiber bikes. Those straight-gauge narrow and thin-walled Chromoly tubes in a conventional double-triangle without any curves and hydroforming..
@@jswong8200 They certainly have their charm, and it seems unfair to me that 26-inch bikes have somehow been displaced. I think that if a return is sought, those motorcycles could return using all the technology we have today, let's imagine a world championship. return With 26” bicycles, create a special category for them and for brands to invest in bringing iconic models that are no longer manufactured today. I say the same thing again, high-end carbon bicycles are for a few, it is a lie, that with a bicycle that today is called "Vintage" you cannot enjoy it. When I go out with my cannondale f 700, I not only enjoy it but it attracts the attention of many who believe that these bicycles are obsolete and are surprised by the performance they have even though it has been more than 20 years since it was built.
By the way, I have a DBR full suspension chrome steel frame, Ascent 3.0 model, a nice and very light frame.
6:40 Dude’s you got video of Big Foot.
Just sold my last carbon bike a few weeks ago riding only alloy bikes now, steel, ti and aluminum. For the loose chunk we ride, carbon just gets beat up, alloy just gets dented, no cracks.
Hopefully this is food for thought and helps someone…
Am 186cm (6”1’) tall, and 105kg (235lbs) ( 16.5 stone for the brits), my xc/trail bike is 4130 chromo, and my AM/Enduro/Park bike is aluminium.
Both bikes run top spec parts, and top shelf aluminium wheelsets with 2.5 or 2.6 wide rubber.
For someone my size, there’s no weight benefit or performance advantage in carbon anywhere.
My 4130 steel frame, and the aluminium frames are bombproof, and my top shelf suspension, wheels, tyres, remove any harshness. I don’t worry about parts failure or frame damage, I can ride the bikes as hard as I wish; (and it’s only me that will break. 🤣)
Also, most carbon frames won’t have warranty for someone my size.
Oh? And as others in the thread have pointed out, Carbon can not be recycled, and will not biodegrade. In 50,000 years, there will still be piles of carbon frames and carbon bits, just sitting there. The aliens will land on our dead planet, and think, “Wtf happened here??” 🤣🤣🤣
Hope all that info helps someone.
😎🤘
Carbon? Aluminum? **laughs in steel**
It’s kinda like a motorcycle frame . Alloy aluminum is stiffer and metal tube that has more flex . Personal preference 😎
I moved from alu hardtail to carbon hardtail. A world of difference. Both are amazing. I use carbon for racing and alu for across country adventure. Carbon feels more responsive, accelerates better, better handling. Alu frame is rougher. Not as good acceleration. Compared to carbon frame, input force goes everywhere, not exactly where I need it, at the real wheel. I feel alu frame is more reliable if I fall, better for day to day use.
The main reason I go aluminum is it’s durable and recyclable. . Unless I’m racing, recyclability is very important.
"recyclability is very important" 🤣😂🤣
Just bugger off please, like you give a shit 🤣🤣🤣🤣
What gloves is Rich wearing?
They look like Hestra🤷♂️
I'll buck the trend - not a big fan of aluminum but they've gotten better. As a non-racer, I focus on ride quality. I love my nice steel framed hardtail (better damping) for making blues, greens and longer days fun, and I'm fortunate enough to have an all mountain FS for more rowdy trails. I disagree on the durability of carbon in rocky areas; yes you can break any frame, but I cringe when I think of sliding / crashing a carbon bike through the rocks.
If crashing in the rocks happens much, the frame will be the least of a person's worries.
Rocks break body parts really easy. Damping in a steel frame.................the amount would be so minute as to be a rumor.
The amount of travel in any frame is really tiny. I do like my reynolds 853 gravel bike though, and my 1990 MASI rd bike.
@@bradsanders6954 scientifically you are absolutely right , but steel bikes just feels different from aluminium
@@awfully.average Yeah, they do. Changing psi in tires feels even more different than the steel/aluminum difference. ...there's a lotta things that determine ride. Suspension is what really matters. A 2010 mt bike with full suspension, is pretty wonky compared to a 2023 full suspension bike.
Carbon full sus frame (Niner RKT9RDO), aluminium wheelset (Stans ARCH MK3), top end suspension (Fox Factory ) midrange groupset (Sram GX), midrange brakes (Sram Guide R)
All 2018 build and still no need for upgrades!
Xc racing carbon definitely a must . If your just riding for fun with mates and just love being out and about and KOM are not your thing then id probaly go steel
Everyone i know who has a carbon frame has had to get a replacement because of breaks/cracks. Personally im sticking with aluminum, for now at least.
My 2013 trek fuel only weighs 28lbs with 1x and a dropper post. Cost me 1000$ usd 4 years ago used. I’ll stick with aluminum.. i also weigh 200lbs
I bought a carbon framed bike sold as 1st time owner (had been a hire bike previous but sold on with a full guarantee).
A year later a small mark on the rear of the bottom of the seat post turned out to be a compromise in the carbon.
I got a replacement frame but had to pay a crash replacement fee (900€) so the guarantee meant little.
From that experience I would only buy carbon new from a company that gives a genuinely long guarantee (Santa Cruz for ex).
Carbon also loses 50% in its value on re-sale, however much it cost new (12k€ levo s-works = 6k€ 2nd hand) :-/ !
That thumbnail has got to be the most aggressive "did not give a crap about excess material" weld I've ever seen.
4:48 Name sticker on the wrong way up. 4:56 - it’s the same on the other side as well.
10 car-nerd points to anybody that gets the TR7 reference 😁
As l keep living in a country which is not in Europe or USA, the hight tech carbon fiber frames will be away from us, so, my best combo will be alluminium frame( eternal) with 29 CF wheels directly imported. My full susp mtb is 14,5kgrs all alluminium and if CFmtb in this video is 13,5 kgrs for a lot al money, I will prefer add a CF wheels for sure and maybe a sadlle saving tons of money.
Generally speaking, given a limited budget, for a recreational rider aluminum wins hands down, in that you can buy a lower spec alu version of the same bike and spend the money saved over carbon frame (plus extra) on significant upgrades, especially wheels and custom tuned high end fork and shock, much much better bang for your buck.
The only reason I went down the carbon route was at the time Intense were having a sale and were selling their full carbon Primer 275 at the same price or even less than a lot of aluminium bikes with the same components. The difference I noticed from my old aluminium Scott was, apart from the clean lines of the Intense, the ride seemed more "Stiff" especially when throwing it around windy trails.
I really like my Intense Sniper 100mm travel bike, I changed out wheels to carbon, went tubeless, along with some other weight dropper parts. I can run fatter tires on the oem wheels, 2.6 ft and 2.4 rear and that makes it a really versatile bike, those tires suck up rocks really well. The 100mm travel works way better than the last short travel bike I had, if its set up right it takes bumps really well.....I use it as a gravel bike sometimes, it smokes all gravel bikes on downhills obviously.
You forgot one topic: manufacturers mark up/profit is much more on carbon frame. Majority of riders wont feel a difference between the two materials except on their budget and cosmetic finishing (no welding cords visible).
I've seen multiple carbon failures on trail in other people's bikes and never a steel or aluminum. Not that it can't happen obvs but anecdotal experience and all steers me clear of carbon every time. I just like me some metal bikes i dunno, and the price is more palatable, too.
if Aluminum frames fail after 5-10 years on bikes, should we be flying 30+ old planes?!
Does it not seem strange that bike makers force their Alu/Carbon frames into the same shapes?? You'd figure the carbon surface forms would be a bit different to use the largest sweeps and arcs but its just as angular and geometric as the Alu. Surely there's a compromise in doing that for the visual continuity between models.
Have a look at the focus jam 8 (carbon) and focus jam 6 (aluminium), I’ve got the 8 and my brother has the 6 and the difference in shape is actually quite extreme.
That's pretty cool to know! I'll check them out@@thegreatseprano9918
I like watching videos of people riding the trails, having fun. On their own bike.
I'm tired of watching videos that are just a glorified commercial for the newest bike.
The only difference is weight of our wallet after buying a carbon frame and that's about it ! Most bike companies stopped making high spec aluminum bikes and they won't sell Aluminum frames for custom builds anymore. I'm currently riding both Carbon and Aluminum, i prefer the Aluminum since it is just as strong for average Enduro riding but difference for me is when time comes, Aluminum can be recycled.
8 grand for a bike. I doubt that is justifiable in any case.
Its 2023. Things have changed. Having said that, bike makers are in it to make a buck.
@@bradsanders6954 prices have gone down significantly you mean?
👍aluminium, cheaper when you swap the parts over to a new frame👌
Alu boy 4 life !!!
Its a tough choice. Rhe better feel of carbon, the durability of aluminum.
Carbon hurts ur wallet more when it snaps
Well I'm just asking myself on what Rich bases his number for the lifespan of a frame?... This must be very difficult as the aging and also the fatigue life of any frame is dependent on so many factors... Cool video though!!!
He basically just makes stuff up with zero evidence.
Maybe that's warranty duration?
3 bikes - 70's Holdsworth and a Cotic Soul and an Escapade. All Steel. 🎉🎉🎉
i think that carbon may be more comfortable on a road bike but a full suspension mountain i cant see how it can make a difference , bars maybe , i have an orbea ois aluminium bike , for the most part it looks like a carbon frame due to the invisible welds on the main frame. much as i love carbon this time round it was more than i could afford so i bought the entry level oiz the previous years model for a reasonably good discount , then replaced all of the parts bar the rear shock ,with xtr drive train , hope brakes and pedals stem, bontrager kovee wheelset , fox 34 stepcast forks and dropper post ,carbon renthal bars and so on , cost about £5,000 all in and i still have all the parts that came from the original so all i need is a frame headset and bottom bracket to build another complete bike yet its the same sort of spec as a £9,000 bike and weighs 11.75 kg with pedals , more manufacturers should use invisible welds as the frames look so much better and people should get entry level spec bikes and just go on line and shop around the bike shops for deals on last years parts they are usually the same but maybe a different colour for a substantial discount it saves alot of money major bike manufacturers are charging way more than the cost of the parts for top tier bikes