Solar Panels 1 Year Later - What I WISH I Knew
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- Solar: Check out Hoymiles for WORLD CLASS Inverters! geni.us/Inverters
After a BRUTAL first year of horribly high energy bills, I'm happy to report that I now have solar. But this process has taught me a LOT, and there's so much I wish I had known last year before getting started.
I needed a new roof, I needed to replace wood, and so this was a worst-case scenario. So join me as I get into the numbers for my first year of solar panels, and learn from my mistakes so you can be better informed! This is everything I learned from having solar for 1 year!
》》》SUPPORT THE SHOW!《《《
Join our Newsletter! twobit.link/Newsletter
Become a Patron! twobit.link/Patreon
Buying a Tesla? twobit.link/Tesla
》》》OUR PARTNERS《《《
Protect Yourself Online: twobit.link/DeleteMe
》》》GOING SOLAR?《《《
Energy Sage for Solar ⟫ twobit.link/EnergySage
》》》COMPANY OUTREACH 《《《
Sponsor A Video! sponsors@twobit.media
》》》CONNECT WITH US 《《《
Twitter 》 / twobitdavinci
Facebook 》 / twobitdavinci
Instagram 》 / twobitdavinci 
Наука
Check out Hoymiles for WORLD CLASS Solar Inverters! geni.us/Inverters
When car manufacturers fully implement Vehicle-to-Grid functionality then home batteries will make a whole lot more sense.
Thanks for the Hoymiles recommendation! Would be cool to see you do a video about gamifying the monopolies' new "demand" plans with solar, rather than the export/NEM 3.0. SDGE, PG&E, SRP, APS, and more either have such plans already, or are soon rolling out, and will make the grid much smarter, eliminating waste. Brayden demand managements and/or batteries paired with solar make the perfect trifecta with these demand plans for max ROI.
Another benefit of solar (when you live on the west coast) is earthquake resiliency.
Thank you for sharing your experience
@@b_uppy Only when you have an off-grid installation with enough energy storage, which is rare i think.
@@pawekaczmarczyk2186
Actually some solar systems can be on grid and still supply for the homeowner because they can isolate tk the house alone when necessary to avoid feeding power at an inopportune time. This is to protect linemen working on power lines from the possibility of electricity feeding in after the main line power is turned off...
When you upgrade your HVAC system get every duct airflow tested! I see so many homes that are loosing close to 50% of the airflow to the crawlspace or attic. Getting the ductwork fixed or sealed is often the largest efficiency upgrade.
Good tip
Why bother creating the static pressure to push air through Ducts?
Why heat and cool the whole house as one unit?
You speak of efficiency, but ignore it all together.
@@truthsRsung He has a ducted gas furnace and AC. My point for everyone with a ducted system is to not ignore their ductwork! The vast majority of homeowners I work with only think about replacing the furnace or adding an AC or Heat Pump. The ductwork is just as important.
@@KPHVAC ...They are parts of the house that go unseen and are, at best, difficult to Clean, but ALWAYS require energy to move air inside them.
Tell people not to ignore their mini-split, and they, themselves, can actually do the maintenance.
One of the first things I did after move-in 2001, was to seal the ducts and wrap with more insulation, plus added R-30 attic insulation, plus replaced all 1-pane aluminum windows to double-pane vinyl. Near enough SF Bay to get a cool breeze at night, so use a whole-house fan to chill the house all night, seal-up at 68 F in morning and stays below 80 F all day even when >100 F. Repeat at night. Only run AC 2 weeks per year. Max e-bill is $150/mo, while neighbors fuss about $600. Will add solar panels for pool-pump and as a gazebo and carport cover.
Never heard of "Hoymiles" before and not a lot of info about the company, other than they are Chinese and went public a couple years ago. Appreciate you named this company as a sponsor. Looking it up it's not a cheaper product than Enphase though. That 4 into 1 unit seems like a great idea but it's almost $500! One new IQ7 is $85 and a long proven product/company. I'm not pushing Enphase but they'd be my choice today. I actually have a 9 year old Solaredge system which had the inverter replaced this year under warranty and one optimizer replaced a few years ago, also under warranty.
A big important difference why I went Hoymiles is that Enphase microinverters are horribly undersized for modern panels. With Hoymiles you can get the full performance out of a 400Wp+ panel, Enphase just can't.... Not even with the newer IQ8's. Added benefit with OpenDTU, a fully open source monitoring system, I have full local control over my Hoymiles install for little money (30$)
Since you are not on Nem 3 watch out for the utility company upgrading you to Nem 3 when you upgrade by over 10%. That's the rule here with PGE. You may want to use the new array for charging and daytime use only and not grid tie it.
110% agree. I am 110% positive that the California utilities will do anything to move people from NEM 2 to NEM 3. I'm not sure who finally got bribed but what they have done is a crime.
@@davelindgren5245 Not to support the utility companies or anything but it kinda makes sense, here in Germany or in the EU grind market some times of the day the price per MWh can go negative, meaning if you want to "sell" electricity as a utility it costs you money to do so, so you just opt not to do so if you can like for example turn off your wind turbines.
Now idk how the market is in the US or California, herein Germany you can look at the current market price and how much percent of the energy produced and used is from renewable and non-renewable sources.
So of course they gonna charge you for the electricity you export and try to get you from NEM 2 to NEM 3 to save that money it costs to compensate your electricity when it's expensive for them to do so.
But here we also use way less electricity because most households don't have AC here.
without my car we use about 2000kWh/year for 2 persons, our landlord living upstairs uses about 750kWh/year so nothing compared to the US.
Then most utilities still charge fixed prices per kWh, time of use tariff are only recently becoming available, but we pay 0,23€/kWh which is pretty cheap around here so we don't feel the need to switch.
Definitely
What amazes me is how fast the panels themselves are improving. Once battery technology becomes better and better, the whole system could take off. It'll be interesting to see where solar goes.
Battery is well ahead of solar at this point. LFP batteries are cheap (relatively speaking) with 15+ year life spans and definitely improving with the 100 year sodium batteries starting to hit the market (slowly). Solar panels at 20% or so efficiency is ok.. but we really need like 60%+ some day some how and smaller panels so we can avoid large installations. That and new wind turbine roof top solutions combined to produce enough energy to run the house and keep the batteries charged.
In researching, appears that LFP batteries have dropped in price about half in just 2 years. But, research quality, such as youtube teardowns by Will Prowse. Best is a battery with communication to a charger (ex. AllInOne inverter), which are pricier and often rack-mount. Most RV owners are switching to LFP batteries, which are half the weight of lead-acid and actually cheaper when considering real-world specs and lifetime.
@@b3owu1f IMO, it is clearly the other way around. Solar panels are reliable enough to last decades. They are powerful enough for high energy production per area. And tey are also cheap, so easily pay for themselves. But batteries are not: best LFP is rated for ~5000 cycles, which is ~13.5 years of daily discharge. And in real life, some of the cells in them are likely to fail earlier, like it happens in older EVs. Plus the cost: they do not always even pay for themselves through their lifetime. For example, a cheap 5kWh battery costs about €2000+. If you are lucky, it will do 5000 cycles x5 kWh=25MWh (=~22MWh after battery capacity loss). So the cost of storage, including energy losses, is 22MWh/€2000= ~10 cents per kWh. That is significant, so batteries need to get cheaper.
Regarding the Sodium Ion: they need time, further ramp up of production, and tests. Current ones do not have high recharge cycle number. Those are hard to know at this point, but I have not seen products rated for more than 2000 cycles. There is expectation of it going to 3-5k cycles in a few years, and then to 8-10 by the end of the decade- but we still need to to see it.
@@b3owu1fdon’t need 60%… there are limits to efficiency, but there is a *huge* amount of available energy beaming down.
Perovskite.
I love your channel. As far as a 25 year warranty or a lifetime warranty goes ,if the company is no longer around/out or business…no warranty.
That's an extremely high possibility given America's accelerating decline.
Yes everything is going to be made in China, including babies.
That’s the same for ANYTHING you buy.
Even if the company is around they wont fulfill the warranty look up ION Solar. Enphase ghosted me after I sent them pictures showing it was the 10th micro inverter that failed in 3 years, my feelings is they prevented the system from reporting thinking I would not be able to tell how munch power it was actually producing.
@@rocks2rocks06Ouch. I'm leaning string inverter since upgrading every 10 to 15 years would have the benefit of progress and the likelihood the company will be in existence until I do upgrade of the product.
25 years sounds good but a lot can happen in that time. 10 to 15 years I equate to the ability to course correct.
One con you didn't mention with microinverters is the Dc -> Ac ->Dc (battery) -> AC more ac/dc conversions and the losses there.
String inverters don't have that.
and because of the extra conversons.. you pay for more inverters.. and the battery to ac one is a single point of failure.. better a single point of failure with a single spare then mulitple single points of failure
If you’re looking to swap your central air I’d suggest Mitsubishi ducted inverter heat pumps. The inverter compressor soft start is much easier on those batteries along with the highest quality and reliability.
I agree 100% ,"Mitsubishi inverter mini splits" are great !
Easy install and maintenance, easy to incorporate within the homes existing architecture.
A multi split system might be worth investigating. One outside unit with up to five inside units on a single phase supply.
You can do it that way but many times the cost compared to their ducted units is pretty substantial. At least up to 3.5 tons.
I found that a five head multi split was thousands of dollars cheaper than a whole house ducted unit and that was with three expensive Daikin Nexura heads in my multi split system. The multi split is far more flexible and cheaper to run as it is possible to only heat/cool one or two rooms or all five as opposed to having to heat/cool the whole house.
Mitsubishi Electric, not Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
Quad-microinverters are usually a lose, not a win. They are not nearly as reliable as single-panel micro-inverters due to the heat dissipation problem. The bigger problem for you, however, is that custom cable. MC4 connectors are a major failure point for roof-top solar systems . Solar panel makers generally do a good job, but custom installer-crimped cables are usually really bad.
When doing a custom MC4 cable, you always want to crimp AND solder. Yah yah, I know, MC4s are supposed to work just fine with only the crimp, but if you really want the cable to last you solder it too... and those crimp areas are really easy to solder.
In anycase, the issue with installer-crimped cables is that when not done properly they can actually be a fire-hazard. You are lucky that wire pulled out completely. A partial pull-out could have resulted in a high-resistance connection and melting / burning / possibly even a fire. I would check under the panels with a thermal camera at all the installer-specific cabling connectors (during a sunny day) to make sure there aren't any hot spots.
-Matt
I've installed many of both types of inverters. In microinverter systems there always seem to be a handful that fail very early. SMA string inverters have been super robust and reliable in my experience.
For my installation I went with Fronius string inverter and after 2 years expended the installation with a second Fronius. Like SMA they rae robust and reliable, and in Europe great support.
As an electronic component that makes sense. If a component is going to fail it usually is pretty early. Stuff does wear out like caps and stuff but most of your electronic failure is going to be early. Unless you get a power surge or it gets hot or something.
Just got a brand new oven and microwave and in two weeks the transformer for the microwave died.
A year later, and even with a string inverter, the newer panels are better with shading, without having 27 points of failure under every panel. ...and the string inverter isn't under a panel up on the roof. Oh, and like in southern Nevada with Nevada Energy, you are not allowed a solar system that creates more than you can use. It must be to a max of 95% and cannot send any excess back to the grid. ...and if there is a brown-out / black-out and line power to the residence is lost, the solar system must also go offline. Just another reason on top of so many others to move to the Philippines! !!!-Mabuhay-!!! Life is good again!
Man i'm from the Netherlands and we (a family of 5) use 3500kw a year. The energy usage you have is crazy for us! Love your videos, keep em coming!
We use on average around 5800kw per year in our house in the UK.
The funny thing is, we went on an energy saving drive around 2 decades ago, basically, reducing our energy use as much as realistically possible, but without changing our lifestyle, we managed to cut our energy use in half and in fact, we actually use more tech gadgets around the house.
There are other areas we can do to reduce our energy, but these are much bigger expenses and something we'll do when the time is right.
Also, during the summer when Putin invaded Ukraine, we went on a massive insulation job to insulated the house for winter, to our surprise, it's remarkable how well it works, so much so that we rarely need heating at all and the house feels comfortable at -5C outside, which is a major improvement over what we had, the other benefit of this is that, even when you do put the heating on, you only need it on for around an hour and it's enough to keep the house warm for half the day.
We did do a mistake when it comes to summer, it can get quite hot upstairs, whereas downstairs is fine, and we've kinda got used to it, but we are planning on looking into solutions to reduce the outside heat from getting in.
All in all, I'm very happy with the results and even thought I know over the long run, our energy use will go up because of electric cars and heat pumps, we could reduce the energy bill a lot with solar.
In any case, my advice to anyone, try and get your house so you rarely need to use heating or cooling to feel comfortable, that's probably going to save you a lot of money over the long run, but the cost to do so will depend on your house, in our case, it didn't cost too much but some house can cost a lot more to do that.
I read that average homes of 3 to 4 use about 25kwh to 30kwh a day.. which would be about 10,000kwh a year. I think that's pretty low, but 3500kw a year seems like you run a lot of electrical items all the time?
@@b3owu1f Houses in Europe are usually heated with gas and very few people have aircon at home. Heating and cooling are the 2 biggest power draws, cooking is the 3rd.
@@b3owu1f this guy is using 50kwh per day and he has a heap of gas appliances, heating, etc. I would say his house is horrendously inefficient.
@spankeyfish wouldn't this imply that house design in the US is extremely poor. Well designed built homes in the US would require less AC. Its incredibly large the misuse of power that goes on.
I always find it curious when I tell people I have solar, their first question is "how much did it cost?" and second, "what's the payback period on that?" BUT if I were to add something like a new front door or new siding, nobody asks those questions. When I add a new door next year, I want someone to ask me "what's the payback period on that door?" I like to tell people that solar is THE ONLY thing you can add to your house that starts paying you back on day one! It goes in one ear and out the other.
It is because the investment is high and if it does not pay you back, why do it? The things you mention are maintenance items and most likely need to be done. Solar is optional.
@@jamesbrunk9817 - expensive siding (front door or window replacement) or included sealing / ventilation and insulation gets to be "optional too" - and there may be no real financial payback (triple glazing vs double glazing for example - price increase may not result in rational savings) - of course "feeling good" about one's choices is nice (if one has that mentality).
Batteries will pay back as well. Also.. if you drink coffee a lot.. roasting your own beans saves you a ton of money and much better quality coffee and it's easy to do.
@DS-mz7dy : yeah, but getting solar has a fairly definable return. You are spending a fixed amount of dollars to eliminate a known monthly expense. They do try to pitch windows, insulation, hvac, etc as having a return or payback period too, but it is less definable.
The next time someone asked you that question, you should ask them. “What is the ROI on payments to the electricity companies?”
I have to say that I just love the information provided by so much of this kind of equipment and the software or apps designed to run with it all.
My Victron charge controller can be bluetoothed to a phone and you can see the day by day power production, you can see total kwh from the first day of using the equipment to the current date of using the equipment, you can see current usage, current power generation. It's just kinda fun to nerd out seeing all this data haha. It's also helpful beyond just nerding out too though because you can become significantly more aware of your power needs.
The turn off for your panels is quite troubling. Panels should work in those lighting conditions. But it also depends on the type of panels: some are better for indirect lighting. I live in the Netherlands, and we have enough clouds, and it still works.
That's also the difference between microinverter and string: the minimal lighting conditions are better.
I have 9 pannels withe optimizers and they work great in the Netherlands with clouds and trees in the way blocking sunlight
Thank you for these vids Ricky. They were a huge help in preparing us for our solar system. Now that’s it’s up and running it’s so obvious we should have made this addition years ago. Enphase micro inverters with Canadian Solar panels.
To find which panel is not perform to its full potential, or not working at all. I would use a cardboard sheet cut to size of a panel. During peak light, cover one panel at a time and read your total output, the one that gives the least power drop is the problem one.
Hi Ricky, great walk through, but regarding String Inverters vs microinverters, the SLA of the total system must be a lot lower with Microinverters even if their average survival year is longer. I would say that if you have a ground mount or roof mount without any shadows I would use string inverters and if I wanted to use different directions on panels and also if the panels had some shadow parts I would go with Microinverters. What I've heard the last 6 years during my interest for Solar is that the Microinverter is a lot more likely to break than the panel itself.
I'm genuinely curious as to why the monitoring software you are using didn't simply notify you of any underperforming panels. It seems like a simple and expected feature of any so-called monitoring software. I would expect some sort of push notification if any issues.
I've got the Sunpower system and they do that. It's just a generic message though. I can't see individual panel production.
Great presentation. Simple, to the point and educational. Congrats!!!
Good video, as always, but I have to disagree with you on one point. String inverters are much more reliable than micro inverters. Especially in hot climates, the micro inverters get toasted. I've seen many failures of micro inverters, but I've never had a string inverter fail.
Don't get me wrong, if shading is an issue, go Micro. But the idea string inverters are less reliable isn't true in my experience. I have two SMA in my garage and one is already about 13 years old.
Also, if you go to install a battery system after the fact, strings will be easier.
Nice video. I have the blessing of a free energy at night program in Texas. I have 36 panels with a tesla battery. I am loving them. Before installing the panels, my electric bill in the summer was $750/mo. Now I pay around $60/ month. The panels cost $400/mo.
Wow, I thought paying ~20 cents per kwh here in Chicagoland was high, but I had no idea people were paying 42 cents per kwh! Solar really does make more sense at those rates. Thanks.
Great video, as always! I'm surprised you didn't have batteries in your system from the initial installation. I live in Michigan and have sixteen 330W panels on my roof (direct southern exposure with no shade) and one Tesla PowerWall 2 battery in the basement. This system provides me with about 80% of our electrical needs. We're retired and only use about 22 kWh a day, including charging our Prius Prime plug-in hybrid.
Here are a few of the benefits of the battery:
1) can act as a whole house generator when the power goes out (as long as it's sunny the next day!);
2) if it got charged during the day it will provide electricity after the sun goes down; and
3) the Tesla app tracks an amazing amount of data that I can use to graph my production, usage and savings.
Regarding point 2 - we were once off of the grid for 32 days!
Cost for your system? Total size?
@@livingtree3547 About $28,000 US, but only $21,000 after a $7,000 federal credit. Sixteen 330W panels = 5.28 kW system. The Tesla PowerWall 2 battery has a 13.5 kW-hour capacity.
For approx 40k USD in pakistan at the moment, you can get north of 100kW on-grid system
Send me info
I have a full solar roof facing SSE and NNW, where I’ve had up to 35% peak over-production with micro inverters connecting to 6 cells with same facing. After rewirering 4 SSE and 2 NNW, the peak has been reduced, and my production on sunny days has increased with 15-20%. Another benefit to micro inverters.
As always a great informative vlog. T’as from 🇩🇰
I just want to aknowledge your work here, since i started watching you. You got really more professionnal looking, more professionnal editing, and almost always listening to advices that we, viewer, can provide to you.
I am really happy to see you grow. If you ever hear about some solar alternative for people far more north than you, please review it :).
If all your loosing in the winter is a hour that's not bad. The sun rides so low in the southern sky that the last hour is very poor in energy production. That being said . You always over size your panel array . If you have the money. But panels are so cheap now . Compared to 2000 they were 5 bucks a watt back then.
We were lucky enough to be under warranty for our microinverters, we had about 5 go out roughly 9 years into our install
Did they replace them with the same model or a newer model and were they compatible with the others?
adding a heat pump is a great way to ditch NG, especially as you are in San Diego a warm climate. We have a heat pump, that replaced a corn burning furnace, and a mini split with 2 head units for the upstairs. It is great, but it is a energy consumer for sure. Yes it is more efficient at moving heat than old resistive heaters, but it is still a lot to account for and see what your battery can handle for starts and continuous loads. Thankfully we still have 1:1 net metering in Illinois so my 21kW system doesn't need a battery and we also charge our Ioniq 5 every other day.
Thanks for your video and input
Very well produced, thank you.
Information that is actually useful! Thank You!
You gave me a chuckle with "[If you're under NEM3] you're going to be a little bit more screwed." Thanks for all the great advice and data.
Your advice might be good for US but in Europe we have much smaller houses and they're usually on two levels so there's far less roof space for panels.
The advice I give over here is fit as many panels as you have the space for in one go. If you need to budget then get a cheaper inverter that can be easily upgraded later on. Most of us can't simply walk around on our huge roofs because we have proper tiles, so maintenance and fitting more panels later is expensive vs doing it right the first time.
Nice video, but some details were lost in translation:
- hoymiles default warranty is 144 months (12 years) worldwide with the exception being USA market where indeed is 300months (25 years)
- terms and conditions apply (for all manufacturers). The small font print becomes interesting when things go south, so do not ignore those
- above 10 years warranty is commmon for big manufacturers, and is not a Hoymiles benefit: SolarEdge up to 24 years, SMA 10+5 (after online registration), Enphase 25 years (can differ per device and/or date of purchase
- micro inverters have indeed advantages but “they work less than a string inverter and thus lasts longer” is false. You are overselling in my opinion. Maybe the partnership with Hoymiles is blinding you? A 400W micro inverter with 400W panel will work the same as a 5K string inverter with 5KW of panels. Right?
Other curiosities of mine:
- How is the Hoymiles integration with other brands when adding batteries?
- can the system be activated without internet access? (Think off-grid?)
- can you access the stats without internet? (Aka. Local only?)
Yes, and warranties kinda mean buckus anyway. Take Solar Edge. Their equipment is total junk and fails all the time. The warranty doesn't save you from having to go up on the roof and replace the equipment. Even warranties with installer reimbursements are usually really tough to actually get the labor reimbursed.
Better to go with quality, and quad-micro-inverters are NOT quality IMHO. For micro-inverters that means going with enphase, and for string inverters... well, there are a couple good brands, but in my opinion SMA is one of the best in terms of actual reliability.
Yeah, I agree, good points. The company is new too. Went public on the Shanghai two years ago and now at an all time low (but so are other solar companies). I thought the 4 into 1 would save on equipment cost, but that unit is almost $500 whereas the IQ7's from Enphase is ~$85. I like to see competition but I'd still choose Enphase. (I actually have a 9 year old Solaredge system tho).
There is OpenDTU (and AhoyDTU) for Hoymiles. It is an open source implementation for their monitoring. Works like a dream, is cheap to make and you get full local control, and as you get MQTT out of it, it integrates very easily in most modern home automation systems. And no need to activate those Hoymiles microinverters. Plug in and connect and they start producing.
Incredible amount of great info ✊🏼👍🏼
Hey Ricky, love the show! I doubt you’ll get the same monthly average production over the next 4 winter months so your payoff calculation may be a bit generous.
I’m also in SD and just finished my first year of solar. I greatly benefited from adding 2 powerwalls by only consuming super off peak electricity for my 2 EVs and charging them from the grid, then selling 80-90% of all solar to the grid. I’d love to hear how your battery setup is going and if it’s offsetting your daily Peak energy usage.
Btw, homeowners in CA on NEM2.0 should be aware that if they expand their solar setup, they will be forced to the less favorable NEM3.0.
Thank you so much for sharing very interesting.
Not a bad video, thank you for sharing your experience
Very Informative Video. Thanks
I have a 20 kw solar system I installed last year, and I used two 10 kw+ string inverters. One is a SolarEdge and required 25 power optimizers which can be expensive as he says in the video, I got mine off eBay for about $45 per (which is about 1/3 new price). The second inverter is part of the FORD Home integration system for my FORD lightning and what’s awesome about it, is that it’s a delta inverter and does not require power optimizers. I have 0 shade where my install is and so far, 7 months in, the 25 panels on the delta inverter have produced 97% as much electricity as the more expensive SolarEdge system. Plus I have a 131 kWh battery back up with my Ford Lightning which is about 10 tesla powerwalls plus I get to drive it around 😂. The truck provides enough power to run everything except my emergency heat, so it’s a no brainer for anyone installing a new solar system, wanting battery back up, and interested or able to purchase a ford lightning.
16:18 One other factor to consider is that the average lifespan for solar panels is 25-30 years, so in general, it's still a better deal than conventional power networks.
Yes. The efficiency may fall but it but it's not a huge drop off after 25 years.
If you add a heat pump water heater keep your old tank and use it as an additional reservoir by tying into the drain plug of it you can double your capacity
I was a coach for a "solarize" campaign in my town. Roughly 50% of the households went micro-inverter and the other 50% went string inverter with power optimizers.
That was back in 2014. All the components came with 25 year warranties.
Since the installs, we've had 4 micro-inverter failures and ZERO string inverter failures.
The inverter is a vert delicate device. The typical IGBT that does the switching to create the AC out of the DC is the most likely to fail. Do you want that component in an exposed area on the roof where it bakes in the summer and freezes in the winter? Moisture, humidity, etc. OR, do you want that sensitive component in a nice stable basement?
Then, when it comes to failures, the weather doesn't matter in changing out a string inverter and the worker is standing in the basement. Micro-inverters are under your panel. You might need to take off multiple panels to get at the one that failed. You are not changing it out in the rain, snow, wind, heat, etc.
The other thing that power optimizers do is balance the voltage. By keeping the input voltage constant to the string inverter, it is MUCH more efficient. Mine is rated at better than 98% efficiency.
Lastly, if you have a battery backup, you want to keep the power as DC to the battery. With micro-inverters, you go from DC (the panel) to AC (the micro-inverter) to DC (the battery charger) and then back to AC again (use from the battery) With a string inverter, you can send DC to both the battery charger and the inverter to do whatever is needed. And you only convert the DC to AC when it is needed. It is these conversions that have the most losses. DC to DC conversions (ie, voltage changes) are far more efficient.
Installers like to push the micro-inverters because they are easier to install. This is why nearly all leased systems are of this style.
3:30 - Great analogy. 👍
It blows my mind how much electricity Americans use. I’m in the UK, have a typical medium sized house and my annual usage is about 3.8K kWh. Granted, I don’t have an EV yet, that arrives in April, but even so I use so little in comparison. As for solar I have 7 panels, and that is as much as my roof could fit. They are saving me a fortune already, although this month it is the battery and a time of use tariff that is doing all the work.
Hi Ricky, one way to economically make solar hot water using daytime solar is to run your existing electric HW cylinder via a step down transformer. We run at 240v in New Zealand so I use s step down transformer to power the HW cylinder at 120V. This results in the load dropping from 3KW to 0.75KW. The water heats more slowly but by using a timer switch to use daytime solar production I can easily keep up with my needs for hotwater. The low load means that even on cloudy days my modest 5KW PV system manages OK. I would assume that the same strategy could still work in the US.
My system is also a little different in that I have a changeover switch to select either mains or completely off grid. By isolating the two systems I miss out on export tarrifs but avoid the regulations that apply to a grid connected system.
Thanks for your great channel.
It's also worth looking into a solar water panel, they're more efficient than going from PV>electric but at the cost of complexity.
One good thing about solar is you can expand!
Nice video. You could also use separate charge controllers for each array and charging the battery bank in parallel instead of so many micro inverters, but your system works well, and that is what matters.
Greetings from Jamaica.
You should use your excess electric generated to heat your hot water tanks. They probably already have electric heating elements installed in them👍
I think the device you need is called a solar diverter..
One of the biggest wasters of power is commercial locations, like you see lights left on all night every night, even though there's no one there. Another one, not as big, is people leaving lights on when not necessary and running ACs all the way down to 68 degrees or lower. There is or was the issue of people leaving electronics and fans on when they are not there. I was roommates with 3 other ladies, and two of them tended to leave lights, TVs, and stereos on all the time, so I had to go around turning them off, as I was the second poorest of the bunch.
I see you use a heck of a lot of power. I'm in India. We don't have solar for our apartment units, and I see myself using 400-1000 kWh. In the months of October and November, I used just over 400 kWh (200 per month), and it cost me $37 for TWO MONTHS of power. We are billed bi-monthly. You have something wrong over there! Solar usage is quite high here.
I notice that people here tend not to use ACs or even fans unless it gets a bit warm for them. Inside apartment buildings, lights in the hallways go off automatically at sunrise. What are people going to do when SHTF over there? Not if, but when... Also, you are not beholden to monopolies. You are beholden to demons that (not who, but that) have hijacked the country and wrote laws that favor them, regardless of party affiliation.
Excited to see the comparison of micro inverters…a bit worried that the calculation you used for yearly expectations did a straight line based on 8months of highest producing solar…and missing months might be actually less in solar production.
Thanks for recommendation on supplier and showing the advantages they give.
I live in the Pacific Northwest and I don’t use any micro inverters, string inverters, and I get along fine! I figure any clouds that go over are going to move eventually, just like any plane or tree shadow.
The only time it is a problem is in the winter when the sun is very low on the horizon.
It’s easier just to get some more panels on the east side, as well as the west side, as my house is oriented towards the south.
I figure it’s more cost-effective to orient my panels by raising some of them at an angle for the winter.
Another way I try to save money, is to switch back to the grid at night in order to keep my batteries from being drained completely. That’s only during the winter months.
Also, I’m off grid, but can still connect to the grid. I just didn’t want to go through the permits and the other BS to be grid tied. Although I have to switch back manually, I don’t care!🖖
Great commercial for hoymiles
We all underestimate our solar. I added from 38 370w panels to another 30 450 watt panels. Using IQ8+ microinverters. It got to near brake even on electric bill.
Very informative - as usual. Gracias.
CA's energy costs are a purposeful governmental policy problem. We left the Bay Area 18 months ago. Bought a house in Northwest Nevada that is 60% larger, and we pay less than half the electric and gas total charges.
Thanks Rickie; like usual great info and entertainment.
After installing 3 solar panel systems on our home in Seattle, my son’s home in Encinitas (near San Diego), and our rental home in Encinitas ; I can say I’m generally happy.
A couple of things I’d caution people about. On all 3 projects I wish that I’d put in bigger systems. Adding EV’s, changing a gas furnace to a heat pump, having tenants start working from home and doubling electricity usage are just a few of the reasons.
We are adding panels at our Seattle home and this will require a new permit. So if you are on a favorable plan of net metering from original permit and the new plan will be less favorable (ie time of use factor) or doesn’t have net metering at all, you will lose a lot of the benefits that imho you are entitled to.
Seattle is 16 year payback and San Diego 5 ish so overall very happy but agree with you that the utilities are going to squeeze us when they can.
great video, I am hoping to follow you on this journey soon. let me know when your in colorado bro
Hey Ricky, big fan of your solar content! While I'm following your lead on Hoymiles for my new house and spreading the word, I've hit a snag. Despite reaching out by phone and email four times, I haven't heard back from their Hoymiles service team. Where's that "top-notch support" you mentioned? Hope we can clear this up together!
Yes. Last year when natural gas prices were high. My gas bill was the big driver of my higher utility bills. It was going over $250 per month from Dec to Feb for my utility bill. This year natural gas is cheaper so now my total utility bills this year has been less than $110 per month since Nov. I've had solar panes since 2016 and it has been worth it. Electricity rates have gone up every year since.
I live in Phoenix and my house is laid out West to East so I already have panels on the southern and western face. Last year I put panels on the northern side of my house and they output almost exactly the same as the southern side because the sun tracks directly overhead in the summer. It drops off like rock in Winter, but I hardly use any electricity in Winter time Maybe 10-15 kW per day which my 7kW system easily can handle... So my main point is for people in AZ or NV, CA you may want to use that real estate on the northern face. You won't have the same output during winter , but during the summer months when you are drawing 70kWH per day, it will help out a lot.
I would do micro invertors if I were grid connected. I went with a string inverter because my setup is off grid. Thanks for the video and sharing your experience!
It’s interesting to see how close you can put your panels to the edges & apex of your roof.
Here in windy Ireland & UK we have to keep a large gap around the edge of the roof to stop the wind from getting under the panels & tearing them off. It means you lose a lot of area unfortunately.
In Australia we use Colourbond (i.e. high quality pre-coated corrugated iron). Its basically indestructible and good for maybe 200 years. Deeply don't understand USA preference for roof materials that need to be replaced inside a lifetime.
Cost. Custom homes use longer lasting roofing but homes built for resale by a builder usually go cheap. Starting to see lots of steel roofs in our area which is a long lasting roof.
You could make the initial investment, even less, by isolating just the main consumers(such as EV charging, and going for a lower cost system) and not connecting to grid. The drawback is you need to charge during day, or need a dedicated battery storage just for that. Also could involve some remote switchover equipment. Just some 💭❤️👍
Talking to a guy that knows the stuff beforehand would have saved you from some of the headache. There are also half/half solutions like for example the one from SolarEdge: You combine the advantage of both ways: Optimizers coming w. 25 years of warranty on every or every 2nd panel but still one inverter (12 years warranty?) that makes sure the cost is not exploding. And the monitoring also allows you to see each panel or pair of panels and how they perform. And you really don't have a problem, you have plenty of free roof surface to put additional panels.
Is there a way to determine how much good sunlight exposure and orientation your roof angle, etc, is going to maximize or minimize your solar roof investment?
I know I have at least 15% less sun exposure on 80% of my roof from sunrise until 12noon in my case, and that's always given me pause in taking solar roof investment,
but every once in a while I get curious on where the the technology is heading and I've heard there are some panels capable of working better with others
in capturing sunlight even in cloudy and shady conditions,
Maybe don't take your solar output for April - November, and extrapolate that for December - March.
You have excellent audio.
As an off grid person, I just want to point out that the micro inverters are for grid tied systems only.
For an off grid system, I would recommend getting a high voltage DC battery anywhere from 48VDC and up. It will make it easier to buy more solar panels and less charge controllers. Outback 80 charge controllers are excellent but you will need 4x as many of these $800 controllers if you have a 12V battery bank vs a 48V battery bank. With 72V you only need 1/6 as many charge controllers as a 12V system.
Curious if different brands of micros, or SolarEdge optimizers have different starting thresholds. My SolarEdge system of 10 years seams to require very little light to start up . Also SolarEdge has the highest operating efficiency of any brand on the market. As far as string inverters go SMA,and Fronius have excellent reliability to 25 years and have actual in field data to prove this, time will tell on the micro's and optimizers.
You could consider solar hot water for all your hot water needs. Solar hot water systems work in the UK so San Diego would definitely work.
Thanks for your video. I just found your channel today. I've been thinking about getting solar on my Illinois home ever since I bought my house in 2022. My main issue though is that I'm not sure if it makes sense since my power is actually pretty cheap. (Last month I paid less than 10 cents per kWh including all taxes and fees) I'm already 100% electric and I think my best way to save money will actually be moving to a cold weather heat pump instead of getting solar. My current heating is electric resistive heating and my AC is like 25 years old. If I do end up getting solar eventually I will be sure to look at Hoymiles inverters. I've been doing a bit of research but hadn't heard of these yet.
Question: For a off grid, home, 100% off grid, and is to be built in the near future, what kind of solar system would you recommend for that? My #1 priority is value for money. Hot water tank, stove, etc. all electric, no heating required due to location. For a family of 4, 4 bedroom house, currently gas vehicles with intent to upgrade in future to electric transportation. When building from scratch, 100% off grid, and 100% electric use of all appliances, obviously battery storage required. Are there complete systems, panels + inverters + all wiring + battery storage = 100% of everything needed to be operational?
What should I do? Get solar now or wait for perovskite panels in about five years?
Nice that you can get so close to roof edges and peaks with your panels. Our township claims "We're Solar Friendly" but requires minimum 3 ft open from edge of all panels to peak, roof edges, and valleys. For our roof, with several valleys, that rules out half of the roof space!
Some roof designs make solar more difficult. We have several peaks and valleys that are less than ideal for installing solar panels on, but thankfully have a nice flat garage roof. One installer I got a quote from put "fireman runs" around the edges of their plan because where they install panels it's required, but it's not required at my location. Do you have any space where you could build a patio and put panels on top of it or install some ground mounted panels?
@@jongoode3296 Our home is basically in a 'hole in the woods' so panels lower than the roof would be heavily tree shaded. Additionally our 'solar friendly township' has a low limit on sq ft of panels that are not on the roof. :-(
It would be nice if solar panels came in triangles to maximize roof space.
Stupid rule.
@@timsteinkamp2245 Supposedly for firemen to be able to walk around on the roof if needed, so they say.
Is there any difference in snow melting between string inverters and micro-inverters ? Also, your panels are mounted flat to a low-slope roof. Did you explore using tilted racks to get a better angle ? What is your peak winter power production as a percentage of the panel rating ? Summer ? If your goal is to be 100% solar why didn't you go with an off-grid system with batteries from the beginning ? The Hoymiles 4-1 microinverters cost $4k for 16kw solar input, where EG4 string inverters cost $2.5k, so Hoymiles are still 60% more costly than string inverters. Do the Hoymiles micro-inverters do battery charging and generator backup like string inverters do ?
I never look at our solar between September to April lol good catch!
(Panel level monitoring is nice to have - there is a cost (optimiser vs microinverter), but it does reassure that all is working - or how shading affects output - I have 3 panels with significant morning shade.)
Once one has a load of solar, energy usage tends to increase - to fit the "ability to spend for comfort".
Available roof space limits many installations (gross cost impacts somewhat - if space remains.).
Prior to solar we paid $1-1.5k per annum (not heavy power users) for retail electricity (0.26c/kWh AUD - no time of use "peak and shoulder surge") in an all electric house (for ever) - since solar we have only had net bills over the last year (5 years of no bills and increased summer AC usage)- recently bills vary from $25 to under $110 AUD / quarter (Arbitrage is a game I like playing)... (~8.7MWh per annum with a 6kw inverter and 6.6kW of panels)
NB, IF they billed you for backfeed - that is surely a regulation failure (irrespective of agreement or not - unless it was itemised as a fine/penalty).
You forget an important part of the micro vs. string inverter analogy if you have storage. With a string inverter, it is like having to exchange the dollars in the large armored truck for Euros at the bank, and paying the exchange fee. With micro inverters it is like having to exchange dollars for Euros with each bike courier, then exchanging Euros for dollars at a stop on the way to the bank and then exchanging dollars for Euros again at the bank and paying the exchange fee all three times. 😁
I have a small 1 panel solar, someone who lives within 100m of my house has installed a large solar system.
My hobby is/was HF radio and since the start of December 2023 my radio turned to QRM ( manmade RFI) this is from 20Mhz up to 30Mhz and the noise is prodigious.
I know this is the future, but something needs to be done about the noise they can generate.
- lots of switchmode gear all over the place outputs loads of RFI...
How is the inverter’s reliability?
The peak output from panels is a couple of hours +/- solar noon, so that hill doesn't really cost you much.
Great video and set up. My first systems were grid tied but adding batteries surely means these micro inverter system will have to go and you have a lot of work to do and in most cases the strings will need a higher voltage series configuration. Battery choice and cost is going to increase the investment and lucky if you get a 6 year payback but if nothing goes wrong for 10 who would moan. Good luck, you're watchable and interesting
I wouldn't not have a gas furnace if you live in San Diego, but it's hard to get rid of natural gas heating in Canada. Heat pump will not be very efficient in the coldest time of winter, and will be loud vibrating.
We installed an air source heat pump in Iowa with a propane furnace backup. The propane runs 1-2 weeks a year when it gets below 10F or so. If you have 70 or 80 amps capacity in your electrical panel you could use resistive heat as a backup, but that would've required a panel upgrade for us.
I believe With SDG &E if you're in tier 2, and you add over a KW of panels to your system, it'll kick you into tier 3.
You can add up to 10% of your system and stay at NEM 2.0. More than that and you will be moved to NEM 3.0.
So if I want to have a battery bank for when the power goes out or to be off grid I would want to stick with a large inverter and panels on a string?
My son switched out his gas furnace for an air to air heat pump. The gas furnace provides the blower for the heat distribution. The heat exchanger takes the place of the A/C exchanger so the new heat pump provides both heating and cooling. At the same time he added a 14kw solar system. Before the heat pump, he was paying $700/month for gas alone. Now, the solar covers everything and his bill has dropped to zero. He basically has no electric bill anymore. They do charge a fee to be on the grid but he is producing more power than he needs so his bill nets out to the minimum.
I have a small all electric home at 8,000 elevation in the Colorado mountains. I have a super insulated home so my heat demands are very low compared to a conventional home. I have a 6,800 watt solar system that with net metering, provides all the power I need for the entire year. I produce more than enough to offset my winter demands on the grid.
To do it right, you need the entire package of low electric demand ( high efficiency appliances and superinsulation house ) and enough solar to generate power and a utility company that does straight net metering. You can get a payback in less than 10 years. My utility charges $0.13Kw/h and my payback is 9 years.
I’m happy my electricity is only 10 cents per kWh north of Seattle because of all the hydropower. I just got a heat pump washer dryer combo, so I free up a 240v outlet and no longer need to vent to outside. The heat pump water heater is my next target.
My primary driver of electric use is my resistive heaters and I plan to switch to mini split heat pumps in 2024. Right now my electric bill can be $200 per month in winter and $27 in summer. My car used to add $40 per month when I was driving a lot, but since I retired I don’t plug it in every day anymore.
For the last 15 years I had a tree shading most of my roof, but it has been cut down now, so I can think about solar again. However it will probably wait until the roof gets replaced now
For most of the energy companies, from what I've seen, you're better off using batteries.
First, you get suckered into buying the inverters to feed back into the grid because the solar companies tell you there's a law that says the power company must by your excess power. Then you find out that they can basically pay you whatever they want. So many power companies pay people less than a penny per kilowatt-hour. Some have gone as low as 1/100 of a cent per KWh.
With batteries the great thing is that a "battery" has a very broad definition. You could get 55 gallon drums, fill them with water, use a motor & pulleys to suspend them in the air and then use that same motor to generate electricity at night as the drums decend & call it a battery. You can buy surplus industrial batteries, like nickel-iron for pretty cheap and you might get 20 or 30 years out of them.
where did you purchase the inverters from?
When my solar system (Enphase with micro inverters) was approved by the utility, they had to come out and program my meter for two-way operation. This is why you got charged for your production before approval. The old existing meter could only measure current without regard to what direction it was going. it didn't know how to recognize bidirectional current.
The further back in the design process you incorporate solar, the easier it is to optimise yield. If I needed a new roof I'd certainly look to redesigning the angles so that I could fit more panels to the sunny side.
Would be good to take a look at your NEM contract with SDG&E. Up here in LA county with SCE, our NEM contract says you can only add 10% extra KW than what was originally approved. If you go over that added percentage, the utility can technically change you to NEM 3.0 and call it a new system.
Not technically.... It WILL convert to NEM 3.0.
I'm in Ventura County, but also with SCE on NEM 2.0 and that's part of why I went with a larger sized original system setup. If I can later add up to 10% without losing my 2.0 agreement with the utility I figured I'd boost what that 10% equates too vs. missing out on add'l panel(s) and risking the contracted net energy agreement
What can be done instead of adding to the grid-tie system is to add panels in an off-grid configuration to take parts of the house off-grid. That is out of the scope that the utility has control over (since it isn't grid-tied). You would still use the utility to charge the batteries when necessary, but insofar as the utility is concerned that battery charger is just a normal appliance. They have no say about what it gets used for.
Don't know with your micro inverters but with string inverters like my Fronius you can cap the amount you want to feed-in to the grid. Helps when you have batteries as the amount you feed-in today with be significantly reduced by you charging your batteries.
I’m an hour north of you with 2 teslas. What solar panels did you use and why?
How well does this integrate with you Tesla?
I'll love to learn it, do you have school for it? Or do people come for training there?
Help me to know how I can get the training on this
Hi Ricky, I have a question for you. Can I cancel my home broadband and collect info from my sunsynk solar system using the sunsynk app on my 4g mobile phone?
I had a planned electric power outage yesterday, it was a few hours. My whole house generator ran the whole time, burned propane the whole time. If I had even a moderate battery system the battery should have provided the majority of power we used and the generator would either not kicked in or just long enough to recharge the battery bank. We have had outages for a few days in the past, and we actually ran out of propane and had to call fast a refill. If I had battery the generator could shut off all night, a generator needs to run at a set rpm to create 60hz even if only a few LED's and a fan are sipping power all night.